Strictly Anonymous Confessions - 101 - Owen Came Out of the Closet and Told his Wife he is Gay

Episode Date: November 23, 2015

If you're currently married and in the closet, this is the podcast for you. Tune in to find out how Owen had the courage to let everyone in his life, including his wife, know that he was gay. How did he know he was gay? How did he get up the courage to let his wife know? What happened to his marriage after he told her? And how is he doing now? Tune in to find out plus find out a whole lot more. **To see anonymous pics of my female guests + hear anonymous confessions + get all the episodes early and AD FREE, join my Patreon! It's only $7 a month and you can cancel at any time. You can sign up here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.patreon.com/StrictlyAnonymousPodcast⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and when you join, I'll throw in a complimentary link to my private Discord! MY BOOK IS NOW OUT FOR PRE-ORDER!!!! Strictly Anonymous Confessions: Secret Sex Lives of Total Strangers. A bunch of short, super sexy, TRUE stories. GET YOUR COPY NOW: https://amzn.to/4i7hBCd To Join SDC and get a FREE Trial! click here: https://www.sdc.com/?ref=37712 or go to SDC.com and use my code 37712 Want to be on the show? Email me at [e-mail] or go to http://www.strictlyanonymouspodcast.com and click on "Be on the Show" Have something quick you want to confesss while remaining anonymous? Call the CONFESSIONS hotline at 347-420-3579. You can call 24/7. All voices are changed. Sponsors: https://bluechew.com Get your first month FREE! https://butterwellness.com/ Try the Butter Wellness perineum massager and use code STRICTLY for 20% off your entire order Follow me! Instagram https://www.instagram.com/strictanonymous/ Twitter https://twitter.com/strictanonymous?lang=en Website http://www.strictlyanonymouspodcast.com/ Everything else https://linktr.ee/Strictlyanonymouspodcast Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome to the Strictly Anonymous Podcast. Conversations with online strangers. We place ads online. Craigslist is definitely the gift that keeps on giving. Real people respond. You go to Singapore or Thailand. You can't not do it. The temptation is just too much.

Real problem. Does your friend know that you're banging her? No, he has no idea. And anything goes. The motto of the show, let your freak black lie. Probably the only good advice I'll ever give you is to re-hide your whips and change. Here are your hosts. Kathy Kay and Tommy.

Hey, welcome to Shipping on this podcast with Kathy. If you want to follow the show instead of follow the show at Strict Anonymous or me at Cartoon Therapy. If you want to buy my book, it's in hard copy and it's, well, like it's a soft cover book. What is that what you call it? Hardcover. And what's the other one? Softs cover.

Oh, paperback. Yeah, if you want to buy the paperback version of it. you can buy it on Amazon. It's called The Cartoon Misadventures of a Total Trainwreck. I think it's 1199. Don't buy the Kindle version. It's hard to read. I don't know.

I don't like it online. I think you need to have it in your hands and just leave it on your coffee table or throw it in your bathroom and read a chapter every now and then. It's basically a bunch of love gone very wrong stories. That's like sort of the tagline. And that's really what it is. It's just like one horrific relationship story after another. So if you want to feel better about yourself, buy the book.

you'll definitely feel better about yourself and the state of your relationships, even if the state is if your relationships are in shambles. Anyway, so today on the podcast, I have on a really interesting guy named Owen. And his deal is he was married to a woman for a very long time, had kids. The whole thing was living, you know, white picket fence kind of scenario. But he always felt a little bit different. He didn't know he was gay, actually. He's gay, right? He didn't know he was for a while, which is very interesting.

And we talk all about that. But eventually he did realize he was. And when he did, he eventually felt the need to tell his wife and do that really difficult thing that most people don't want to do or are really fucking afraid to do because, you know, it puts an end to a lot of things. You know, he had a family. He was married to his wife for like 20 years, I think. He had kids, you know, and he came clean across the board.

And it was difficult at first. But, you know, a year out, he calls it now and it's a year later and things are okay and he's doing okay. And he's got a boyfriend and we talk all about that. We talk about, you know, how he sort of came to figure out that he was gay, how he got up the courage or how he dealt with it, how he got up the courage to tell his wife what happens after he told her, like what were the ramifications and how he's doing now. So it's a really interesting story. So I'm going to just get right to it. And I'll be right back on with Owen. Do you have a story, lifestyle, or situation you can't talk about to anyone, to anyone? Or do you just want to let your freak flag fly and be on the show? Well, Strictly Anonymous wants to hear from you. Send us an email, Strictly Anonymous Podcast at gmail.com, with your story and your anonymous name. And remember, everything is strictly anonymous. Strictly Anonymous

Hey Owen, welcome to Strictly Anonymous Podcast. You're on with Kathy. How are you? Hi, I'm good. I'm happy to be here. I'm happy to have you, Owen, because you are, you know, a lot of times people call me up in the middle of a problem or an issue and they're looking for advice and things aren't yet resolved and that's always interesting. But what I love about this episode, what's going to happen is that you're going to tell a story that has an ending

and the ending is a good ending, you know? And I've had other guys on this show that are, in your predicament and I've called in and, you know, with the same problem that you have and it hasn't been resolved, but you've resolved your problem. You did the difficult thing to resolve it and you're here to talk about it. And your problem was this. You were married to a woman, but you were gay, right? And I'm assuming you always knew that you were gay, right? No. No. No, I didn't. And that's what a lot of people ask. I mean, certainly my wife. When did you know? But no, I wouldn't have gotten married if I thought it was gay. And I think that that's, I think that's common for men in my situation. I think women in my situation too, where you don't know what it is.

Right. But you don't feel straight, but you don't feel gay because you don't know what it's supposed to feel like. So an attraction to men didn't mean I was gay in my head. And I certainly didn't want to be gay, and I tried to fight it, and I tried to make excuses for it. And so when I met my wife, I thought, oh, well, I'm not gay because I love this. For woman, and you were attracted to her on some level, right? I'm assuming sexually there was an attraction there. Like, I know what an attractive woman looks like.

But I didn't really do anything with men before I was with her. So I didn't know. Sorry, how old were you when you actually met her? How old are you now and then how old were you when you met her and how long were you guys married for? Now I'm 48. And I met her when I was in my 20s. And then how long were you guys married for before you? Because what happened is the end of the story is you actually came clean.

You let your wife know. And everybody's happier because of it. You're currently dating a guy. We're going to do a call with your boyfriend at some point. And that's where you're at now. So how long were you guys married for and how long were you living, like as a straight guy with your wife thinking that you were straight? married for 20 years and I'm sorry married for 15 years together for 20 years right and then you know when we have two kids and when the kids came along that certainly I think

adds a lot of stress to a marriage totally and then when you have a marriage where one spouse has conflicting sexual identity, it really exacerbates it. And so when did that start for you in the marriage, though? Because you said like when you went into it in your 20s, you maybe had a feeling that something was different about you. I don't know. But you didn't know that you were gay at that point, right? Like you didn't put your finger on it yet.

Like when did it start to sort of start to dawn on you? I'm assuming it didn't just happen one day you realize it, right? Did it happen sort of gradually, and when did that start? Or when did it happen out of the moment? Yeah, I would say that as I got older, the feelings got more intense. And certainly always an attraction to men there. And I can trace it back to when I was a little kid. It was an attraction to men.

So what frustrates me, what really makes me anger is when I hear somebody say, it's a choice, you're choosing to be, because I never would have chosen. this. I think most people would not choose to be gay. I don't think, I mean, have you ever heard one person that actually is gay and sort of fully, you know, come to terms with that

that would actually say that? I mean, come on. I think that's like that is the most ridiculous thing. Right. I only hear that from people who, and I don't know anyone personally, but someone who is no longer quote, quote gay, saying that they

chose not to be gay anymore, right? That's what I mean. I've never heard an actual gay person say, I'm making a choice. I could be with a man or a woman, but I choose to be attracted to men. No. Yeah, no. That's not how it works. Right.

I feel like it's only ignorant people as well as maybe that handful of gay men that are still trying to deny it on some level or have some sort of confliction with it. Because I don't think any gay man who's fully come to terms with it would ever say that. It's absolutely not a choice. It's like you either are gay or you're not. It's just the way, it's like you have blonde hair, you have brown hair. Like, you know what I mean? It's just the way that it is, you know?

And I don't think that it's a case where you're either gay or straight. Right. There could be a lot in between. There is. It's a very, it's a very gray zone. And I don't associate with bisexual. I thought maybe for a while I was. But as the marriage went along, and we started establishing, you know,

You know, our roles as parents, and we started living as two people raising kids more and more. It became harder and harder for me to keep up the I'm straight facade. And it started realizing me that it was becoming a facade because I was feeling more and more like this doesn't feel right. And that is a very hard thing to be in a relationship with someone you love. But on a really deep fundamental level, you're like, this doesn't feel right. And especially at that point. Yeah. And at that point, you're like really in deep.

I mean, you already have kids. Like, you know, you've established a very, you know, a very big life with this person, you know, to start thinking or, you know, have those thoughts that maybe this isn't right. You know, what comes with that is like, I'm going to have to get myself out of this. this, right? And that's like a tough path that most people never do or, you know, because it's almost too much to think about, you know, so I think it is a very daunting sort of thing to sort of, you know, to come up for you because what comes with that, the change that you would have to go through, right, to sort of be honest with yourself about that is difficult. Yes, and I didn't know what to do with it because I didn't want to hurt this person that I

loved so much. I didn't want to break my family up and it starts eating at you and it got to a point where I had to go see somebody. I had to go talk to a therapist because it's great that you did that. Yeah, it was going to kill me. Yeah, you needed to let that out. Absolutely. Yes, it was absolutely going to kill me because that's, I fully understand why so many gay people kill themselves. Right. Because you don't feel like you have any other option. You feel like you're so functional. Right.

There's no hope. I didn't feel like there was any hope. So I wanted to figure out what is going on inside me. So I found a therapist who deals with sexual issues. And, you know, went in and said, like, I don't know. know what's up. Like I know that I love my wife. I know that on some level, I am attracted to her. You know, we did have sex, right? We made two kids. As the marriage kept going on and I became more and more confused, the sex life died off almost completely. Maybe we had to have sex. Maybe we had to have sex.

you know, three or four times in a year. Right. And a lot of that was, like, I had so much fear over sex over the last few, last few years of marriage because I didn't know if I could perform. And I didn't know if it would be like that's how I was going to get outed because eventually I couldn't have sex because it just kept growing and growing and growing. And it kept eating me up. And I think that a lot of guys in my situation, they don't realize how much fear they have.

Exactly. You don't realize from the very beginning when they recognize that they're different, the fear starts. And it's the fear that, oh, no, I may be gay. Or someone's going to find out. Or I'm going to lose everything. I'm going to be ostracized. Totally. I'm going to go to hell.

Yeah. It could be all of those things. Yeah, it could be all those things that someone's really Christian. Forget about it. You know, you could just put things on top of that. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I was raised in a really fundamental Christian conservative household,

and I really believe that gay people were going to hell. Yeah. And I was not going to do that, right? Yeah, so you started when, like, how long were you going to therapy? And, like, did your wife know you were going to therapy, or were you doing that kind of behind her back? And at that point, had you, like, sort of started seeing guys? guys on the side at all?

She didn't know I was going. I didn't want her to know she didn't know. I would go at lunch. That's great though that you did. And how long did you see your therapist for? Are you still seeing that therapist? I am still seeing him and I went I went for about

four years. It's great. It took about that long. It took about four years. I mean, the coming out process was about four years. Right. Maybe five years. and to actually come clean. Right. It wasn't? Yeah.

It was not every week, no. It started every week. And then, you know, it was about once a month. Right. That's great. Listen, whatever you could do, I really think that, you know, when people, and a lot of people do this, you know, I'm totally for therapy. I'm totally the type of person that if, like, it's in my head, it comes out my mouth.

Like, you need to let go of things and you need to sort of speak them and talk to someone about them. It's very, you know, healthy. and it's just needed. And, you know, when a lot of people carry around a lot of stuff that they are just too freaked out to talk about. And it's so toxic, it's unhealthy. It causes so many problems both physically and emotionally that I think it's always great.

And I just can't believe that at this day, like this day and age, there are still people that don't believe in therapy because I think it really is a great place, especially for people, somebody like you or people who don't have that, you know, they're not ready. to be totally honest about what they're dealing with and they need someone to talk to they have no friends they don't have family members you know what do you do you have to let that out so it's so great that you went there and did that that was probably saved you well it was um yeah i was a nervous wreck when i first went because i had never spoken these words to anybody you know i had never said to somebody i'm questioning my sexuality or i may be gay i don't know what i am um

And I bawled, right? Like, I was just a mess. Right. But from there, I think, like, that's what most people are afraid of. Because, like, what you did there is, like, you just, like, looked in the mirror and you finally, you know, spoke the truth for the first time, right? And that's like that. I think that's, like, where the fear starts. It's at that moment, right?

But I would assume that the more you did that, the better you felt eventually. That, right? Oh, yes. after the first session, I felt tremendously better. Right. It was, I don't think there was more clarity yet. Mm-hmm. But it felt so liberating to tell somebody this.

Totally. And to start looking in the mirror, like, I'm at the point now, like, yeah, the truth can be scary, but I can't look at anything else but the truth anymore because the lies in that facade is not a real life. No. It isn't. It's unfair to you and it's unfair to your spouse. And this is what I think. It's unfair to your kids.

Yeah. And I've had other people on this show. And I think a lot of people feel this way. People who are living sort of a double life and they feel that a part of the reason why they don't want to tell their spouse is that they, you know, it's like they think about their spouse over themselves. It's like they can't imagine hurting their spouse. So they'd rather sort of not be true to themselves.

I think people don't give other people enough credit. to believe that other people will be able to deal with things. You know, people could deal with stuff. And most of the time, even if something's pretty difficult, people come out on the other side better for it. You know, that's how you learn and grow in life, you know. And in a way, it's actually worse to hold them back from having, you know, a truthful life too. Because on some level, they're not, you know, they're not having, they're not living in the truth either if they're with you and they're living your lie. Right. So why not set them free and let them go find somebody who's heterosexual and would have the marriage that they're really looking for, right?

So you hit it on the head. So there is that absolute fear of hurting this person. So I would say it's two things. You don't want to hurt this person you love. Right. And you also don't want to be the cause of all that pain. Because with that comes, you know, a lot of anger from your friend circle and your family on both sides. Totally.

And the fear of what people are going to think of you is really strong. But you have to realize, and anyone who is in this situation where you're gay and you're married to the opposite sex, whether or not you're fucking around with other people or not, you are hurting that person. Because a gay man or a gay woman cannot be married to a straight spot. and there would not be issues. Even if it isn't arguing all the time, even if it seems like it's happy, there is something fundamentally missing in your relationship, and you are hurting that spouse.

You're living a lie on some level. It is. It is. And it is going to come out. If it doesn't come out, what it's going to be is a unfulfilled life with that one person. And then when you die, They are, you know, in their 80s, trying to figure out, like, well, oh, it could be better.

Like, why do you want to do that to them? Why do you want to bring them through this life? Give them kind of this half-life. And that's where you're hurting them. You're not serving them. You're not being kind to them by dragging them along on this. And especially if you're fucking around with other people. Right.

Did that start for you in your life, like in your marriage? Or did you come clean before you started seeing guys? no I I did and I'm I'm I'm not proud of the fact that that happened beforehand but it was fundamental to me coming out right because because I want to allow myself to to you know experiment before because I thought it would be tainted right oh you can't I think I was afraid that if I if I tried it before I was with a woman and it was was better than I was going to be damned to being gay. Right.

Right. And so, yeah, I did. So part of the therapy was I had such a negative opinion of gay people that he's like, you need to go meet gay people and you just see that they're good people. And I think it would be good for you. And it's not that he didn't have to tell people, but he said, if you could tell some people, tell somebody, he'll get it out because it's killing you inside. And so I did.

I told two gay people that I knew. I confided two gay people. Oh, wow. And they were very supportive. And one of them said immediately, you think you're being fair to your wife? It's just fair? Do you want to wait until the kids are out of school?

And then tell her and you guys are, you know, ready for retirement. Is that really what's going to be fair? And then I was like, well, I can't do it because I can't hurt her. Right. So I confided in them, and then I started exploring online, and I was on a site called Men Chats. It's a video chatting site, right, where you can pull up multiple cameras, and I started chatting with men there and jerking off with them online. And that's what I felt like is the only thing I really wanted. I felt like that was my source, my outlet, and I didn't need a physical or emotional.

relationship with a man because I could just jerk off online, right? Right. And how safe that would have been if you could have stayed there, right? You could have kept your life with your wife, everyone would be happy, no one would have to know, and you could just get like sort of that part of you fulfilled online and you could keep it all together. And certainly there were men that I met out there who that's all they did, right? That was their outlet.

I would still say like if you have to come out here, then, you know, you really have to explore why you keep coming out here. For the most part, I don't believe most men keep it there. I think especially the married men, they're going to go out to the rest areas. They're going to go to, you know, public bathrooms into locker rooms and they're going to get it there. They're going to do Craigslist, right? Right, because how do you, if it's a desire, right? But if you have a desire like that, right, and you, like, dip your foot in the pond,

like, how do you not keep going with it, right? I just don't think it probably is physically possible to sort of, you know, keep that. in check, right? No. It isn't sustainable. It's not healthy for your wife. You know, you're going to be bringing, you're going to be bringing stuff home to her, and it is going to come out.

I had an extensive Skype friend list, and I left Skype up one day. I went to work, but it was covered up with another window, and it was really just, like, through pure luck that my wife didn't see. Oh, my God, right. name, you know, and people were writing me messages, like, you want to jerk off. Like, and then you realize like so much energy spent

trying to hide this, right? Yeah, and I... You're trying to hide it. You're trying to hide who you are. It's awful. It's terrible. And I also believe, and I've told people who have called my podcast this before, like I warn them, kind of, because I think once you start to decide for yourself that maybe

you want to be, you know, more of who you are, maybe you want to face that truth, or you want to be a better person and you want to go to that next level. Like you will, right? And sometimes it happens. It seems sort of like sabotage or something happens by accident. But I think on some level, people sort of bring that to them, right? Because on some level, even if it's subconscious, they're ready to face the truth. And then, you know, their wife finds out. And it seems like an accident. But I really believe that it kind of happens when that person has made a shift. And maybe

sometimes that person doesn't even know about that shift, right? But I warn people who call in, you know, I had a sex addict who was like teetering in that place. And I said, I know you're going to have a bottom because you really want to change. You know you have a problem. And that's going to happen for you. And it's going to be the best thing that ever happened to you, right? But it may seem like really horrifying at first. But it's coming because subconsciously, you want it to come. You just can't consciously make it happen because you're just too involved in, you know, the addiction and all that stuff. And by the way, he did wind up getting arrested recently and sent me an email and that happened. And I was like happy for him because from there, he could get better, you know.

So I think, you know, when you start becoming really honest with yourself and you start getting out there and then you leave the Skype up there, it's like, you know, it's just, it's going to happen. You're right. You know, I tell people like, you know, be in control of that happening or not. but it's going to happen, right? Well, I agree completely because there was a lot of me that wanted her to just ask me. Right. I didn't want to have to make this announcement. Right.

So I thought like, well, especially when I got really involved and I started acting out with men. Mm-hmm. Like in person, not on the websites anymore. You were like now going out. Uh-huh. Which once I did that, I realized, oh, shit, I'm so gay. That was it. What was the clue? The dick in your mouth?

Yeah. I couldn't use the, I couldn't use the word gay. Right. I didn't use the word gay until right before I told her. Right. because I wouldn't acknowledge that, right? I didn't because it would destroy everything that I had. At least I thought.

Right. Right. I mean, that's what your listeners in the situation. I think of it, everything will be terrible forever. Right, exactly. And it was terrible, right? The aftermath was, it was a nuclear blast. Totally.

It's horrific. It's like everything's done, right? Like it ruined everything. Yes. Right? Like the kids, her family, friends. How old were your kids at the time? At the time that you sort of brought it up.

Like, you know, at the time that you came clean and came out of the closet, how old were they then? It was only a year ago. So they're both in one's in middle school and one is in upper. Right. So they were old enough to know what was going on, right? So everybody found out. Yes. And you were like the cause of like just mass devastation.

Yes. It was awful. It was terrible. It was the hardest thing I've ever done and the hardest thing I hope I'll ever have to do. And certainly there were times where I wish I didn't do it because it was so terrible. And it was, you know, it's been a year now. And there were there were times where I thought like, can't get any worse than this.

And then it would get worse because there's so much pain and there's so much confusion. Right. And there's ramifications. I think it gets worse as people find out. And I just think it's just like a snowball effect, right? Like sort of it just gets worse and worse and worse. But on some level, you're only a year out of telling. And I know from the emails that we had back and forth that you and your wife are in a

very good place even just a year later. So imagine where you're going to be 20 years. But, you know, for that for that first. time that you really come clean it's like an addict hitting a bottom you know it of course it's going to be the worst thing imaginable but I think in those moments in life those are the moments that you know are the amazing moments you will look back at one day you know I always look at things from our death bed the deathbed perspective you know like when I'm on my death bed like you know I think those really profound moments in life are sometimes are

most of the time the most difficult you know those are the things you learn and grow from And, you know, if you look at a life in total, like, that's why I love biographies, you know, people go through really difficult things, you know. But most of the time, 100% of the time, I think, most people, you know, get out of it. And they change and they grow and things are okay and they move on, you know. And that's why I said, I think that a lot of people don't give other people credit by thinking that they're not going to be able to handle it, you know. Your wife now is really okay with it, right?

Yeah, she's, we're both so sad about it. Of course. But she is, we're very friendly and we're really good parents. And the kids are our priorities. And I also, you know, it was not an angry divorce. It was two friends parting. And it took a lot to get to that, right? There are a lot of hard conversations and a lot of crying.

With you and your wife, you mean after you told her? Yes. You know, for months and a lot of therapy. And a lot of support from family and friends, which makes a big difference. And it got to a point where, well, one, she's a wonderful person. And so it got to the point where, She was just like, well, this is what it is, right? She doesn't want to punish me.

I'm, you know, for one thing, you know, we both still love each other. Right. Even with the pain that I've caused her, she still loves me. She knows that we can't be married, nor does she want to be married to me. The kids are the focus, and she's not going to do anything that hurts the father of her children. Or would I do something to hurt, the mother of my children? And so, you know, it's certainly not what it was. I don't want to paint it as everything's fine.

You're like honestly, you're only a year. No, I think you're explaining it very real. Like when I talk, I think I'm the one that has to clarify what I said, because I'm acting like more so as the person that's like, oh, it's just fine a year later. You're only a year out and that is a very short time. I really believe 10 years from now, you will be in a great place. I believe that in life. Like your wife will move on.

She'll meet somebody else. You guys will be happy. She'll look back with not one ounce of sadness at it and understand that that was like a pivotal time that helped both of you and you're in better places. You know, a year later after you're married and all the kids, that's not where you're going to be. But you will eventually get there. Absolutely. It takes a while, though, for sure. Yes.

And here's the absolute truth. We are not trying to make a marriage work that can't work. Right. Anyone who's out there that has a marriage where they're gay or their spouse is gay, their marriage is not working. It may have some surface where it looks like it's working, but fundamentally deep down in the roots, the roots are riding away and that tree is going to fall. So instead of letting that tree fall, I took it down. Right. That's what I say.

You were in control of that. Right. Mm-hmm. Yes. And I think that that's better in a way because you had that conversation. How long, though, like you said before, and I don't know, I was a little confused when you said it. You said, like, we didn't get divorced right away. It was months.

Like, was there a time where you, when you told her, like, hey, I'm gay, like, were you, like, did she want to leave you immediately? Did she want to make it work? Like, or did you know right when you said that? And did she know, like, that meant, like, you guys were totally over? or were you tying around the idea of maybe staying together? Yeah, we talked about what this meant, right? And could we work it out? And ultimately, and it didn't take long, probably, you know, within a month we knew this was it.

We had to, it was best to end it. You know, you don't just throw that away so quickly. Let me ask you this. Was there anger? Was, did she ask questions? Like, how long did you know? And, like, were you honest with her and tell her you had been seeing a therapist for four years that you were with men? Like, I mean, that must have made her really angry.

I didn't tell her that I was with men. But I did tell her that I was, you know, seeing a therapist continuously four years. And I didn't tell her that because I didn't think it would serve her. Well, I 100% agree. I think sometimes when people tell people stuff like that, it's like selfish on some level. Because what does that person really need to know? That doesn't really matter in the story. Do you know what I mean?

It really doesn't. It matters in your story and it was helpful to you and that's your path and what you needed to do whatever. But does your wife really need to know? I think absolutely not. Like you were my friend and called me up and said, hey, what should I do? Should I tell her? I'd be like, no. You know, I believe that that was the right decision.

Right. No, she didn't know. She doesn't know now. And it really would not serve her and it wouldn't serve our relationship. No, it doesn't make a difference. Like I said in her life, that was something you did for you. It wasn't something against her. I just don't believe that. I think other people would disagree, but I don't really care. It would be a much more hurtful, hurtful experience, right? And I was careful and I was tested and I never had anything. So therefore there would be no reason. I think unless if you did have anything like that, then you would have to come clean. But since you were clean,

there's no reason for that. Like you said, it would just be hurtful. And what does she get out of that? No, you know, nothing. Nothing.

And most of my experiences with men were jerking off in a locker room at the gym. There was one occasion where, like, when I finally let the walls down, and I was traveling, and so I was in a foreign city, and I was in a gay bar. It was the first gay bar I ever went to, but I was there for a second time, and the two hottest guys in the bar approached me, and I started telling my story, and that I was married, I had never done anything with men, really, kept jerking off and they're like why don't you come back to our hotel

and I don't know why I said okay for them Maybe because they were so hot I don't know Well that it certainly helped Yeah but it was It was this thing you know For 30 plus years that I

wanted and I would never take it nor did I think I would ever have it And so You know I said you're going to have to get me, you're going to have to get me a lot more drunk than that.

Right. It's going to happen. So they did, right? They bought me a lot of drinks. And then we stumbled back to their hotel. And my first, uh, intercourse experience of the men was with two men.

Wow. It was, it was crazy and fun and hot. And I let that wall down. And it was fantastic. Like I went absolutely ape shit. I did everything that I ever thought that I couldn't do what I wanted to do.

Right. I experimented. You know, I was, I was top, I was bottom, I was whatever. Right. For like three hours. And then the next day I went back and we did it all over again. Oh my God. That sounds like, that is like an amazing, great first experience.

Yes. And I didn't feel guilty, which I felt really interesting. And I went to the therapist and I told us, I don't feel guilty about this. And now I feel bad that I don't feel guilty. Right. I totally get that kind of a feeling. But I also get why I get. the not feeling guilty and I think that that's important part of it you know because I always talk

about how I really believe like you know your morals come from yourself or like we make our own rules for ourselves right it's like to me what's wrong is doing something that you feel bad about right if you feel bad about it don't fucking do it but if you're doing something that other people feel bad about but you don't then that's not wrong for you whatever that is you know what I mean so to me that's where people I think are, it's bullshit, you know, that you do it, but then you feel bad, so don't do that. But if you're doing that and some other people may think that it's wrong, but if you didn't feel wrong, then it, to me, it wasn't wrong for you to do. Right.

And it felt right. And more important, like it really showed me like, oh, that's what sex is supposed to be like. Because heterosexual sex was fine. It was, you know, of course it feels good. And my wife and I had really good sex. And then towards the end, it became not like the end like the last few years. It was more of an obligation.

And it was more about fear and keeping up the persona that I didn't feel anymore. And so sex became a completely different thing in my marriage than it was with these two guys. Right. I was still under the impression, though, that I didn't want an emotional relationship with a man. Right. I thought it was still just physical, and if I could control this, then I'll be okay. And I didn't have sex with a lot of men after that. But what about sex with your woman?

Is that when you sort of, because I know that you said previously that, you know, you started to be less interested in your wife sexually and you were more in your head about it and you were like, you know, you had a lot of fear around sex with your wife? Did that start after that like really amazing experience or get like really, is that things started to change with your wife sexually, or was that already happening? I think that that played a role. I think the sex was diving down anyways, and then that made it go even further down because it really was showing me, oh.

That's what you're supposed to be doing. You're not straight. You're not straight. Right. That's who you are. Yeah. And so what was interesting was on that same trip, I met. another guy

who lived in that same city I met him on Menchats and he was a straight guy who was with his girlfriend and he said he had never done anything with guys before but he was really curious

he looked like he looked like Jake Gyllenhaal cute right and yeah and I said well come over to my hotel and we'll do anything you want

you know it could be just us talking, that's all you want. So he came over and for 30 minutes, you know, he was so nervous and he was shaking. And when I put my hands out of him, he was like, oh, my God, oh, my God. And like, he was experiencing what I had just experienced for the first time. And except I was now in the senior role. I was very nice. It was very nice to, well, I had, you know, jerked off of guys before I had sex with these two guys.

No, I mean like, you know, here you were having your first, no, I just mean like here you were having your first experience, right, with these guys. And then, you know, I'm assuming it happened on the same trip. There you were sort of helping somebody else have that, right? Like, you move through things quickly. I don't think that's a bad thing. I think it's a good thing. It was actually, I met with that guy in the afternoon and then that night I met those two guys.

So I had those experiences on the same day. Okay. Helping this guy along in his path, wherever that. is right I gave him mistake always but what I bring up with him is because after that we started staying in regular communication so I was talking him almost every single day through online right and I had this revelation with him after I don't know how many months it's six months and I went back and we had another experience where we had oral with each other he had never done that and he was really

and he kissed me and he had never kissed the guy and that was really exciting for him and so more importantly like we just got along really well and I told him at one point I think we would both be shocked if we lived in the same city to just realize one day that we were dating

and that was a really big revelation for us both after that he started pulling away to the point where he just disappeared. He moved to London and I never heard from him again. He got freaked out.

Like I was blue just ended it. Yeah. Because he was with this woman and he wanted to have babies with her. And so I was showing him like it may not be the right decision and that was too much for him. But more, so the way things work too,

as he's exiting my life, this other guy comes in to my life through men chat again never intended to go out of menchats to start a relationship right never wanted anything more than a jerk off partner he wanted to meet men in

in person right with this guy it was immediate he was divorced so he knew what it was going on right like he knew what it was like to be married at divorce and he was very handsome

very charismatic we got along perfectly and like as soon as I hung up with him because we jerked off I was like I got to see that guy again right and we over the course of months just start communicating a lot

and we made a time to meet up in person and it was like I knew this guy it was like I knew this guy for my whole life it wasn't weird to meet him it wasn't I was I was I was nervous excited, but I was nervous, scared. And we came together in this hotel, and it was just like coming together with, like, my person.

I don't know how to describe it. Like my puzzle piece. It was shocking to both of us. I was so happy, right? But I was married. And I was like, well, this can't go on, right? Because I'm going to stay married. Well, you know, three years later, it's still going on.

Right. So that's your boyfriend. Mm-hmm. Yeah, so, like, he is my boyfriend. Mm-hmm. He is. But when did you come clean? Because I know that you had said before, like, I mean, I'm assuming that once you

started talking to this guy, you started to realize you have, or the minute you met him or in person, like, you realized this is more than just sex for you, right? Like, that's when you started to realize it's an emotional thing, too, and you might be gay. Or you are gay. Yeah. Yeah, I didn't tell my wife anything about him. Mm-hmm. And he doesn't

He doesn't live in my state So Oh your wife doesn't even know to this day No Oh that's interesting No But you know I go

See him as much as we can There is a big gap because of the divorce Right And I just couldn't And that's just difficult for us Because we haven't seen each other lives over the past year. For the years past, I would see him a lot.

And that's going to be another thing down the line, right? Like, that's my next challenge is because I do want a normalized relationship with him, a public one. But I think that's my last fear is that one. Yeah. How come you haven't, like, because it seems like, you know, you sort of did the hardest thing, which is just to actually say it out. loud and like you, like you said, you ruined your family, everyone found out, like, why hold back

on that? Do you think it's because then you'd have to sort of explain when you met him in the timeline would be sort of more hurtful? So maybe, you know, you'd do it down the line and it could just, you know, you could maybe say it just met him now or like is it, do you have some sort of fear of coming out like fully as a gay man and being in a relationship with a man? Is that what it's about? I think it's the fear that, um, she will suspect that it happened before. Right, the timeline, right. And she would, I think, yeah, absolutely.

I mean, that's how women think. That's what I would think, you know. Because she knows of him, but she doesn't know that I consider him my boyfriend, right? What does she think he is? You're just your friend? Or does she know that you're like, what does she think, like, about you with guys? Like, where does she think you stand? Like, or what did you say to her when you said, I'm gay?

Are you like, I'm dating guys? Does she think you're dating guys now? Does she think you just sleep with guys? Does she think that you're just trying to figure it out? No, we don't talk about our social lives. Right. Right. So when she, but I'm assuming she asked you, like, are you with anybody?

And you just said no. Yes. Mm-hmm. Right. So that's a part of it too, because probably in the middle of all that, right? You don't want to also throw that on top of it, right? So you said no. so then when do you, you know, come clean?

That's why lying sucks, right? Because, like, one lie turns into 80,000 lies. You know, it's so annoying. It's like, you know. Yeah. It's the last, it's the last lie. And I want to shed it. I want to have a normal relationship with him.

You know, he wants it. I mean, I think we're doing extremely well for people who don't live in the same state. Right. But it rears its head sometimes. You know, we've talked to a therapist together twice. And, you know, it's in my court. I think that's the frustrating thing for him. It is in my court.

Rick, he's totally out, I'm assuming, in his life. And do people in his life know about you? And is he sort of open about your relationship with him? Yes. So he's out. and he's told like his close circles, right? And some of them know the whole story

and some of them know the half story. So for him, it's, you know, I'm, and rightfully so, I have him back in the closet. And for someone who's been out as long as he was, the closet is not a fun place. Right. It's a really lonely, frustrating place.

It's dark and the secrets and the lies are just when you stop telling the lie you don't want to start them again so that it's very frustrating for him. And all I can say is like it will come it's going to come soon like this year

coming up. It's going to happen. I just got to get past the fear. Right. Listen, it's not five years after you told your wife that you're still hiding. I think he's smart to give you some time.

I think he's smart to stay with you because your history has shown that you are somebody who faces your truth and who knows how to do, you know, who will do the more difficult thing. And I think it's okay to give you some time to do that.

I think a year is a very short time, you know, to expect it all to be tied up with a nice bow on and finished. You know, I think things take time and things come around and I think if it's five years from now like I said and you still haven't done it I think he should be like

go fuck yourself you know and like sort of walk on but I think at this point he probably I think he's smart to believe that you will eventually do it and he will be able to be you know he'll be happier because of it eventually but he has to give you that time

I think we're both chomping at the bit for it right and it makes travel hard right because I'm so fearful of her suspecting. So I really keep it at a minimum. And yeah. It almost seems crazy.

It almost seems bizarre to me because she knows you're gay, right? You would think that that's like the hardest thing, right? But you did that already, right? But you're still afraid for her to like just know, like it's, you know, to know for sure that you are. Maybe by outing like this relationship, I don't know. It's like it doesn't make sense. I know it makes sense, you know, in your life.

It just wouldn't, it doesn't make sense sort of on paper, right? Because she knows you're gay. It's not like you're hiding that, right? But I'm sure there's a psychology behind it, right? Yeah. It's like, oh, I'm glad you're fine. You're moving on. Right.

You have a boyfriend now, and I'm still, you know, struggling to come to terms with this. Thank you so much for destroying my life. I'm glad you're happy. Right. I get it. That's really what it is for you. Uh-huh. And because I still love her and I still want the best for her, right?

I cause a lot of pain in her life. And if I can do something to minimize the pain, then I will. And, you know. Do you think she's at the point yet where, like, Like if I was talking to her, she would say the same thing. Like, I love him and want the best for him. And so maybe she would be happy for you that you had someone. Or do you think because, you know, she's more of the person that was her in this.

She had to swallow the bigger pill, right? So do you think she's just not there yet? That'd be a question for her. I don't know. I don't know. I think she did swallow the biggest pill. Like, you know, I made the choice to tell her and to end the marriage. She didn't have much of a choice in that, right?

Right. I made the choice. And I just don't want to keep doing things that keep hurting, but the fact is we're not married anymore. No, and she knows the truth. Yes. So I think there's, in some ways, spouses who separate and hate each other may be able to move on much easier than when the two are trying to work together to have an amical relationship.

I don't believe that. I think in the short term it seems that way, but in the long term, that's absolutely not true. I know people that can't get past pettiness. And I think it's the anger and the pettiness and the vile shit that goes back and forth 10 years after they're not together is so horrifying to me. I don't get it. and I think the people that do with what you do and really love each other and do things with grace and, you know, in the highest way they get through things, you know,

by through loving each other and through communication and through the truth and through working through it together, I think they fare way better down the line. It may not seem that way now because you're still very early into it. That's true. I mean, we don't need to hurt each other and purposely. That's major. You guys are going to be old people like talking about this one day without any bad feelings, but just happiness that it happened for the both of you. It's just unfortunate that sometimes we can't sort of see the future. She doesn't know that she's going to meet an amazing man and probably have a better relationship with him than she ever did with you, you know, and have all those things just like you're having too. But sometimes as someone gets that before, there's all this jealousy and everything. But everyone's, her life will work out too for her. It will, you know.

She's going through what she's going through, but eventually things will get better for her and she'll be in a better place too. It's just a matter of time. Well, I firmly believe that through pain and adversity, you grow as a person. A thousand percent. You cannot go through something like this on either end and not change fundamentally. And it depends on how you look at it and how you change. So I think that both of us are changing in an extremely positive way.

She's looking at, you know, areas in her life where she sacrificed, maybe where she shouldn't have or where she had put up with stuff where she shouldn't have. I'm looking at, you know, living a truthful life now and not a life of fear. And really, like, when you go through stuff like this, you realize how much you can, endure and you realize. Exactly. That's what I was saying. Yeah.

It does help. Yes. And it is going to work out if both people are working, especially if both people are working together towards good. Now, when you get a situation where you have, you know, one of the spouses is doing things to be vindictive or to be, maybe it's, you know, the gay spouse is like, fuck it, I'm done, see you later. Mm-hmm.

Then, yes, that's harder. If you don't have the support in there between each other, then it is going to be harder. But it doesn't have to be like that. It doesn't have to be, you know, leading with anger and hurt. No. But that's because I think... But I think the reason why people hold on to that kind of stuff so much is because I don't know. For me, what I really believe in life, I believe in, like, what OAPDishes out.

And I always have. I really believe that life is a school. We come here as flawed people. And our job is to work on that shit and put ourselves through stuff so that we learn and grow and become better. And then we fucking die. And I think that the problem is people think that we come here to be happy and everything should be perfect. And when there's a problem, something's wrong and that makes them not perfect. And they don't see the value in those things.

That is what life is supposed to be. That those things will absolutely happen. they're meant to happen. They are the good things in life because that's what you, and life is going to be difficult. It is meant to be difficult and it's going to be happy and it's going to be a full range of things. But people don't believe that. So that's the problem. It's the people that don't have that belief or the people that suffer the most.

Right. They're sleepwalking through life. It's the people who, they've never tried anything, so they've never failed anything. They've never. they've never sought to have anything better and this is a generalization by you know moving out to the suburbs and having unfulfilled marriage

and no excitement and no joy you just kind of go through it so you don't feel highs and you don't feel low exactly that's how a lot of people live their lives you know a year out from this I was at my absolute lowest of lows. And as the dust has settled, and I woke up the other morning,

and it was a really beautiful day, and I thought, I am really happy. Like, I haven't felt like this. And there is this now lightness about me that I hadn't had my entire life. Right. Like I just got the chills when you said that. Yeah, I just got the chills.

Because that is so profound and so simple, but so powerful. Because what it says is that, like, you know, we're here to be, like, who we are and be truthful to who we are. And, you know, and through doing that, you are finally happy. But, like, look, you weren't happy for 47 years of your life. Some people will never do that and they'll never experience that. But I believe as long as we're alive, we have the opportunity to do these things, ourselves and to make ourselves better people and therefore we'll be happier. And, you know, what is happiness? Like, you're not going to be happy every single day, you know, that's like

bullshit. Right. You know, but it's that inner sense of, you know, peace, that inner sense of fulfillment, you know, and then every day, you know, you feel all different kinds of things. But if deep down inside you feel pretty okay, you'll be able to weather any storm that comes your way. Yes. And my wife is the same. My ex-wife is the same. She is finally seeing like all these, all these fears she had when she was in our marriage. And she doesn't have those anymore, right? Like she's not trying to keep a marriage together.

You said something interesting, which I was like. Yeah, you said something interesting in the email that I remember and I wanted to bring up that. You said, you know, she was like when she found out she was almost happy because she felt like she was going crazy, you know, in this. relationship trying to make it. So it sort of made, you know, it sort of probably put pieces together for her that she couldn't figure out, right? On some level? And that's, yes, that's a common thing you hear from the straight spouse. And there's, you know, there's even support groups for the straight spouse. And they all say this exact same thing. They all say that they felt like they were crazy because they didn't know what it was and they felt like it was their fault. Right. But they knew

something was up. And I always say that. I mean, women don't go, women, men, people don't go crazy for no reason. You rarely hear like the man, you know, accusing the woman of going crazy and he's completely faithful or completely honest in the woman's mental. No, people, we are animals. I believe we are animals. We have instincts and we are that first and we smell shit from a mile away. Because we're not mind readers. Your wife didn't know exactly what it was, but she smelled the bullshit. Like, she just knew on some level and I think that we all have that it's just a matter of how much do you turn your head to those feelings inside of you but like when she she probably wouldn't have copped to that before you told the truth but probably looking back she was like oh my god I felt like I was going crazy and I understand that because she knew something was up she just didn't know what it was yes and that's very common in my therapist said the same thing like that's what he hears from all the spouses I thought I thought it was me I thought I was like, why is this not working because this person's, you know, so great.

But it turns out that person wasn't giving everything that they should because they didn't have anything else to give, right? Right. And how much better? No, but how much better do you make her feel on a certain level when she realizes that it wasn't her? Do you know what I mean? She was probably personalizing it so much.

I was in love with a guy in high school, in love with a guy. He was my best friend. We fooled around a couple times and he always dated this girl who was like overweight and unattractive and he was super good looking and I was like, why aren't you with me? Why are you with her? And it turns out years later, he copped to the fact that he was gay. He had his first gay experience right after the first time we made out like with the gay guy he was talking to online or on the phone.

And he explained to me, you know, Kathy, I could never tell you. He's like, you know, I dated that other girl because she didn't sort of expect so much from me, right? Like, as far as like a real relationship, you would have wanted me to be like a, you know, a straight man and I just didn't have that. And she didn't sort of ask that because she was just happy to have this hot guy liking her. But I was so happy when he told me because, you know, when I feel like, oh, like, why wouldn't you just let me know? I did a lot of sort of suffering, right? Thinking I wasn't good enough or it wasn't me. Like, why hurt, you know, when you're just told me you're gay, like, that's end of story. In a way, that's like the best thing to find out because

you're like, okay, that makes sense. It's a definite. There's nothing. I I could have done. I had, right? Because I think the worst thing is to have those regrets, right? And feel like, oh, my God, I fuck that up. Or I wasn't good enough or I didn't do the right thing and everything went south, you know? But that, she doesn't have to look at the relationship and feel that way. No.

And I think that that when you have the spouse that gets a good place, that's the realization, you know. That it is the right thing to do. Yes. And she is. She knows that it was the right thing to do. She didn't want to stay in a marriage where, you know, I couldn't give her what she thought I could give her that I said I could give her. So she doesn't want to be in it.

And that's why it didn't take long for us to realize, like we couldn't stay married because what example would be setting for the kids, right? They would see two parents who weren't fighting, but they weren't, you know, like maybe some other friends' parents were. And they're going to model their relationships and what they're seeing with their parents. I believe that fully. It's very important what you show your kids. My parents were so toxic.

It made me fucking hate, like, be horrified by relationships. Do you know what I mean? Because of what the model was for me. So I think it's very important for parents to, you know, have healthy relationships for their child to see because that's like what you say. That's what they look. that's what they imagine relationships are going to be. And, you know, you set them up for the rest of their life.

And you could really fuck them up if you don't show them the right thing, you know? Yeah. You have to, though. I think you have to set her completely free and let her know, you know, the boyfriend thing, you know, because it's not only holding you back, you know, because you say, oh, I don't want her to feel like I'm totally gone. Maybe for one second or for five months, she will maybe more. that she, 100% she will, but after that is let go, she'll have 100%

freedom to meet somebody else and that's probably when she will. So I think the sooner you let her know, the better, not only for you and your relationship, because you don't want to lose your relationship with your guy over this, but I think that you need to set her 100% free. Because what

happens with a woman is like that little 1% chance, like women are very hopeful and they hold on in a way to things sometimes. you know for whatever reason it's just like inner nature and if she's holding on for something I know that she's probably not holding on thinking you're getting back together but I think it will be helpful for her to move on if you show her that you have even if it's hurtful at first in the long run I think it'll be better just like what you did previously I think it'll have

the same effect and you just need to do it yeah you know that the last bit of fear yeah I do. You know that. I was watching Oprah with Pima Shodrin, I think, is how you say her last name. And she had this, like, really great quote that I tweeted the other day. And she said, if you don't know the nature of fear, you can never be fearless. You know, it's very easy for people that, like, do regular things all their life. And they're like, I'm not afraid of anything.

It's like, then big deal. You know what I mean? If you're not afraid of something and you do it, that doesn't say shit about you. What says something about you is that you have a fear and you face it. Do you know what I mean? Those are the people that are truly strong, you know? So to me, your fears are always places that you're supposed to go to. You know, you have a fear.

Fucking face it. That's what you're supposed to do. So I know you're kind of afraid. But I, and I know you're going to do it. Like you don't even need the pep talk. I think that, uh, you're pretty evolved. I think your wife is too. I think it's a testament to what I always say, which is like attracts like.

You know, I see, you know, people that are having really toxic relationships. Most of the time it's happening because both people are petty assholes. You know what I mean? Um, I think as much as you're, this evolved person who faced the truth and was very bold and lives a spiritual life. Your wife is that same way too, and that's why you guys are handling it. Right. You guys are both sort of on the same level, you know, and I think that she'll be okay.

Yeah, I think that's the difficult thing is that we, I think we're both very good people. And we want the best for each other. So. But you guys are like best friends. You're still family. Like, your best friends, you're still family. You have kids together. That relationship will never go away.

way, you know? So it's just like, but you just, you will have a better relationship because it's, you know, I think best friends, you know, lovers and partners are one kind of friendship. But I think friendships, just regular friendships could be very powerful relationships too, you know, and you guys are also parents together. Like, you guys have so much together that's never going to be, that can never change and will always be there that you still have a lot with her. Well, we, I would not say we're best friends. I would say we are friendly and we have friendly conversation. We don't have heated

discussions anymore. She doesn't ask me any more questions about how I came to where I telling her. So we're past that like that's what a year has brought. It has brought like a settling

like resolution as far as okay well this is the new circumstances. how do we now best proceed going forward. So I don't go out with her. We don't go to the movie. Yeah, but I think that'll happen down the line. I think you have to wait a while.

I think she needs to meet somebody else and be happy and realize she could be in another relationship. I think sometimes people have to, you know, be with somebody else before they could fully get over the person before. You guys had a lot of history. To think that it goes away in one year, it's just not realistic. It takes time.

But years go by fast when you're our age. I'm in my late 40s, too, so I get, you know, a year, a couple of three years will be here in no time. And I think you guys will be in a very different place. And I think that you will probably come together in a different way and have a really great relationship with each other. That's what I think. Yes. And in the end, we're not trying to make this marriage work anymore when it couldn't. We have honesty on the table.

She gets to, you know, when she's ready, pursue a fulfilling relationship with a heterosexual man. And I get to be myself for the first time ever. And I don't have to be worried. Like everyone knows I'm gay. I don't care about the reaction so much, right? And for the most part, the reaction is very positive. and very supportive and I just don't worry about it anymore.

Like I don't wake up and people who are in my situation may know exactly what I mean. I used to wake up every single day. First thought in my head was oh my God am I gay. Right. Like literally the minute you open your eyes

like it comes to you. Yeah. Yeah. You remember. It's like when you break up with someone, you wake up and you're like, You almost don't want to wake up because it's the first thing that comes to is like something that, you know, you're back in reality, right? Yeah.

Am I gay? Am I going to hurt? Am I going to hurt my wife? Am I going to hurt my kids? Like this fear that I was especially like leading up to me finally telling her, it was overwhelming. Like I can't believe this. Like I should I do this? Should I not?

I didn't know if I would until I said the words, right? I still was negotiating with my therapist. It was like, no, maybe I can make this work. Right. maybe I can make this work, you know, really doing everything I could. I was going through the stages of grief before I told her. Right. And then she had to go through the stages of grief because I didn't bring her along on the ride, right?

So she's a little behind you. Uh-huh. Yeah. But she's going to get there herself too. You know, and then I went back in, right? Then I started grieving my marriage and I started grieving everything that I did. It hurt her and the kids and the families and, um, it just didn't seem like it would get better, and then it did.

Right? It did. And you know what? I'm just not going to live that life anymore where I'm fooling myself. Right. And, you know, I told you about this in email, but I want to share the story that I just had where I was in a store this week, and it was a very friendly store assistant. and I just started talking to her about my situation. And she was really fascinated by it.

She said, first of all, my mom is gay. So I understand how spouses can be gay. But let me get your opinion on my friend who's dating a man who's 24. He lived in completely gay life until 20. And at 20, he found God and decided he wasn't gay anymore. And everyone knows, because everyone knew him as a gay. by guy, but now he's like, no, I'm not gay anymore. I chose to be gay. So now they're going to get married. She said, what do you think? And I said, I think she's in for a world of pain.

I think that this guy, especially since he's doing because he's a religious reason, he is suppressing everything that feels natural to him. And just because he can have sex with a woman, maybe they haven't had sex, right? Like if he's really religious, they may not have sex yet. Right. he's completely lying and he's bringing her into it. At least she's coming in with full knowledge. You know, most spouses don't come in with that knowledge.

So they're caught off guard like my wife was. Like most are. At least this woman's going in. But I want to say like, why are you doing this? Because I said, like I said, I think, listen, I think like a chucks like

and whatever it is that he wants to, like his lesson is going to be sort of denial she needs to deal with that too. They're both going to be learning the same thing and they're both signing up for it and that's where they're both at. And like I said, I think that, you know, most of the time,

you know, two people come together to work something out and even though someone, you know, each person might seem like they're dealing with different things. They're learning the same lesson a lot of times. And so that woman is just as deceitful in her own life as he is, right? It's just, you know, she's living the same thing

and that's why they are pairing up and deciding to do this together. And that, you know, will take them to where they need to go and they'll go through their own things and they'll learn their lessons too, you know? That's their sort of play that they're acting out, you know. But I think... And perhaps he's bisexual, like a true bisexual, but he's not saying that. If he didn't meet God, if like the sentence and then he met God and he wasn't gay anymore didn't exist in that story, maybe I believe he was by. But when you throw in, then I met God and I wasn't gay anymore and it's so black and white like that, it just reeks of bullshit. Like it's just he's trying not to be that way because his God or somebody told him that God doesn't agree with that, you know?

So that, you know, and I think, you know, a lot of people listening to this podcast might buy into stuff like that. I think there's people that will listen to those podcasts that are in your position and will maybe feel, you know, more courage to do what you did because of. of your story and you said like I hate to sound cliche but even if I could help one person I would love to do it. That's why I'm so happy to have you on because I believe that too. That's why I love to do my podcast and put this stuff out there because I think people in life sometimes sit with things and you know inside their head and they really believe they're the only one with that problem. You know and I think it's really super important for people to realize that they're not alone that other people have the same problems and it's really great to see people who are further down the line

who have dealt with the problem and come out on the other side and are happier because of it. So I think it's so great that you called in and told your story. I'm going to have you back on because I'm at like an hour and 15 minutes. I never do more than an hour, really. I'm going to do a part two with you and we're going to get your boyfriend on, right? And we're going to talk about all that stuff. And I'm going to talk to him too. I think maybe we'll do you guys together.

Yeah. Right? Sounds great. You don't have to go farther than Craigslist to see that you're not alone. Well, that's where I get all my collars from them. I'm married. Yeah. There's so many.

I mean, I don't know if you look. They feel like they're hopeless. Yeah, I don't know if you look through my episodes. I mean, I have so many people like Craigslist happened by accident. Like the way I sort of started advertising on there because I just wanted to do a show about people with problems. And, you know, or just I like to talk to people about their problems and help people. And I didn't want anyone to know that I was doing it. So I just posted on Craigslist personals because it was free.

I swear to God. And then I felt like. I struck gold because I got the most interesting sort of people that I think most people on the surface would judge these people. And I think sometimes, too, people could read sort of the title of my podcast and think like, oh, this is some like dirty sex show or whatever. And even if it was, who cares? But it's really not. You know, these people that write in on Craigslist and they're doing these things sexually, most of the time they're acting up. And they have like really interesting stories behind it. So many men are living a double life and fucking men behind their girls back.

I've heard it a million times. I get emails from guys all the time. You know, and so it's very, because I think it's still not totally acceptable, you know, for men to be gay. I think it's happening more and more and we're in a much better place than we were five years ago. So I think a lot of men are still forced to, you know, stay in the closet because, you know, the ramifications they'd have and the judgment they'd get from people. Yes. We have a generation of married gay men. Totally. It has to work its way through.

Yeah. And there's going to be a lot left coming up in the next generation. Yeah, I call them, yeah. And I'm not existed in the generation after that. You're going to have those who are married are going to be the deeply religious ones still, you know, in 50 years. Still hanging on, right, the hangar-ons, yeah. But they're going to be the minority. Yeah.

I call them like the dinosaurs. I think a whole group, like there's this generation that's going to die out pretty soon. And, you know, a lot of bad shit. with them and I'm happy for it. You know what I mean? Like get rid of them all because, you know, as a woman that is opinionated and stuff like, those guys don't like me either. Those guys that are, you know, like that generation of people, they have a lot of bad

shit, you know? And I think that the younger people nowadays are raised in a world that is super open and it's a much better place. And I love it. I think it's great. And I agree with you. I think that that is on its way out. There's people still alive that have those views, but they're going to die.

out soon. Like I said, and I think they're going to be like the dinosaur generation and it's like, bye-bye. Like, I'm happy they'll be gone because I think it's, you know, it's weird how people have thought. And in our own lifetime, we've seen a huge shift. I think we're living in a very exciting time of change, you know. We've seen like major shifts that have been so incredible and amazing. So it's weird to think that, you know, I think, you know, 10, 15 years, you know, or 20 years from now, It'll be weird that how people thought, you know, but people thought that way most of our lives growing up, you know. And it's so archaic to me. It always was, you know, because I was always, like, more progressive in the way that I was even as a young person, you know.

But I think, you know, so it always was kind of weird to me. But I think people are more coming into the light and understanding that. And it's just not, it's not the majority anymore. And it's just going to be non-existent. Thank God. But, you know, congratulations to you that you took that. huge staff and did it. Thank you so much for calling in and explaining your story so people could hear and, you know, guys like you could know that they could do it and they could,

it will work out for them. And I look forward to talking to you and your boyfriend and getting more information on your guy's relationship. Thank you. I'm very happy to have shared my story. We'll talk soon, Owen. Okay. Thank you. Bye. Bye. Okay, I just want to tell you before you go that my book, it's called Strictly Anonymous Confession and Secret Sex Lives of Total Strangers is now available not only in paperback and e-book but you can pre-order

the audiobook. It's still not going to be out until August 25th, but you can pre-order it. The book is basically 17 different stories taken from my show. I kind of picked one story from each category that I talk about on my show. Like there's a hot wife

story. There's a cuck queen story. There's a cuck story. There's a gang-bang girl story. Like I said, 17 stories, and they're all told in the third person, and they're all true. I took the interview and rewrote it in the third person, and I wouldn't really call it like a total erotica book. Think like penthouse letters. It's more direct. It's not so over the top like erotica.

I don't really like that kind of vibe, right? But these are true stories, 17 of them. They're really short chapters, easy read. You could read, you know, one or two, and then skis. skip around. You could read the whole book. It's available in eback format, paperback format, and finally, the audio book is available coming out August 25th, but you could pre-order it now. And if you buy my book in any format or pre-order it, I will throw in a complimentary link to my Discord. My Discord does not disappoint, okay? There's no way you get into my Discord any other way

than getting the link from me. Okay, I give it to people who buy my book. There's tons of people in there everybody shares content with each other and that's what you get to do there you can post your own pictures and videos there's tons of channels we have lots of contests where you can win a lot of money it's a super fun place to be it's a total strictly anonymous community and you will love it i will be giving anyone who buys my book access to my discord it's private like i said all you got to do is email me a screenshot of your purchase whether you did the audiobook the ebook or the paperback send it to me at Strictly Anonymous Podcast at gmail.com. That's Strictly Anonymous Podcasts at gmail.com.

And I will send you the link to Discord. So anyway, thanks so much for tuning in. This is the Strictly Anonymous podcast. Do you have a story, lifestyle, or situation you can't talk about to anyone, to anyone? Or do you just want to let your freak flag fly and be on the show? Well, Strictly Anonymous wants to hear from you. Send us an email, Strictly Anonymous podcast at gmail.com, with your story and your anonymous name.

And remember, everything is strictly anonymous. Strictly anonymous.