Strictly Anonymous Confessions - 1028 - NAUGHTY CONFESSIONS: She Went to a Gloryhole, Her Hotwife Bday Surprise, They're Religious and Secretly Swing and More
Episode Date: February 5, 2025Tune in to hear a bunch of naughty confessions and then hear Kathy's critique of them. First, you’ll hear from a guy who is a Gabbi (a guy who helps with the religious services in Orthodox Jewish co...mmunity) who recently started secretly swinging with his wife, then from a hotwife who called in to talk about her hotwife bday surprise, then from a guy who recently started attending gangbangs, gloryholes, dungeons and more, then from Erica who talks about her recent BBC gloryhole experience as well as the secret kink she’s been living out with her husband and another guy, and then from a guy who was in a foursome that turned wrong some. Then you’ll hear them discuss entering into the lifestyle and the best ways to do it, the pitfalls even professional swingers can face and the key getting past them, Erica’s experience with fisting at a threesome, how and why a lot of guys at gangbangs can't get it up and how Erica has felt about it when it has happened at one of her gangbangs, exactly what went down at Erica’s gory hole experience and what she loved most about it, her secret kink she’s finally exploring and who she’s explain it with, the recent threesome she had with her husband and who the third guy was, how feelings can come into play in open relationships and how Erica has navigated them, how and why Erica isn’t into seeing her guy play with women even though they have done it plus a whole lot more. **To see a pic of ERICA plus see pics of my female guests + hear anonymous confessions + get all the episodes early and AD FREE, join my Patreon! It's only $7 a month and you can cancel at any time. You can sign up here: https://www.patreon.com/StrictlyAnonymousPodcast and when you join, I'll throw in a complimentary link to my private Discord! MY BOOK IS NOW OUT FOR PRE-ORDER!!!! Strictly Anonymous Confessions: Secret Sex Lives of Total Strangers. A bunch of short, super sexy, TRUE stories. GET YOUR COPY NOW: https://amzn.to/4i7hBCd To Join SDC and get a FREE Trial! click here: https://www.sdc.com/?ref=37712 or go to SDC.com and use my code 37712 Want to be on the show? Email me at strictlyanonymouspodcast@gmail.com or go to http://www.strictlyanonymouspodcast.com and click on "Be on the Show" Have something quick you want to confess while remaining anonymous? Call the CONFESSIONS hotline at 347-420-3579. You can call 24/7. All voices are changed. Sponsors: https://beducate.me/pd2504-anonymous Use code anonymous to get an additional 10% off the campaign’s current discount - that’s 60% off https://bluechew.com Get the first-month FREE https://shop.butterwellness.com/pages/vday Get 20% off your The Perineum Massager by Butter Wellness. Go to butterwellness.com and use the code “STRICTLY” at checkout for 20$ off your entire order Follow me! Instagram https://www.instagram.com/strictanonymous/ Twitter https://twitter.com/strictanonymous?lang=en Website http://www.strictlyanonymouspodcast.com/ Everything else https://linktr.ee/Strictlyanonymouspodcas Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
Transcript
Discussion (0)
If you want to be on the show, it's called Strictly Anonymous because I do change everyone's voices.
So if you have a naughty, interesting secret life story that you want to talk about while remaining
anonymous or not anonymous, you could be on the show.
So me an email, strictly anonymous podcast atch email.com or go to my website, strictly anonymous
podcast.com and click on Be on the Show.
If you have a naughty confession that you want to leave, I do have a confessions hotline.
You could call that number 247.
That number is 347, 4203579.
That's 347-4-2-0-3-5-7-9.
Make sure you're in a quiet place when you leave your confession.
Don't be effing, driving, and call me through your car phone.
Hold the phone to your ear.
That's the best way.
And if you need longer, just hang up and call back and continue talking.
And I will edit them together in all those voices on the confesses.
on the Confessions hotline are changed. So you'll remain anonymous. Most of those, a lot of those
confessions, make it onto a Confessions episode that I air like every other Wednesday. The rest of them
all go on my Patreon. Now, my Patreon is a great place to join for just $7 a month. You get all of the
anonymous confessions and there's hundreds of them over there. Plus, you get every single episode,
which is five a week. It's going to be six a week this year. Early and at free.
plus you get to see all of the super hot, sexy picks of all of my female guests so you could put
a total hot body to every episode you listen to. Plus you get access to my private Discord where people
are getting super X-rated and naughty. There's a lot of different channels there. A lot of my guests who are
on the show posts their X-rated content over there. There's places where you could also upload your
own stuff. There are naughty listener channels where, you know,
Everybody that's a member is posting all their naughty videos and do pictures.
And like I said, it's X-rated.
I think people are hooking up over there.
Okay.
There's all kinds of channels.
There's voice channels.
You can have a lot of fun in my Discord.
Trust me.
And you get all of that, the Discord and all the Patreon stuff, for just $5 a month.
Go to patreon.
com slash strictly anonymous podcast.
That's patreon.
com slash strictly anonymous podcast.
And whatever you do, don't sign up through the Apple.
podcast app, okay, because they charge you way more over there for some reason. They did something
where just go to a desktop and sign up or go to the description. If you click on the link,
that's the best way you're going to get the regular rate. Now, listen, the last thing I want to
tell you about is if you want to join the lifestyle after listening to my show, well, then you
could get a free trial to SDC. STC is like the largest adult dating site out there. What I love about
SDC is not only are they a dating app where you could like hook up and meet with like-minded people.
They also have so much information on there. There's educational information all about everything
lifestyle related. And then you also get information on all the meet and greets and the hotel
takeover parties and the gangbings and all that kind of stuff that's going on in your neighborhood
or wherever you're traveling to. All of that information is all on SDC. And you get a free trial.
if you go to sdc.com and use my code 37712 or just go to the description you're going to click on
the link in there for stc and you're going to get the free trial okay today i have a great
confessions episode uh i got erika with me on the call of course she confesses to some crazy things
that she's done we start off with like a very uh conservative uh gabi if you don't know what a gabbi is
it's a somebody who runs the services and the strict orthodoxy jewish
community and him and his wife went from that to swinging. Okay, when you hear the whole trajectory.
It's super interesting. We start off with that confession and then we go into a hot wife birthday
surprise confession. She talks about a specific scenario that her husband set up for her.
Then we talk to a guy who is way older. He's a single guy and he just like started going to
swinger clubs by himself and he wasn't really into that. And then he went to gangbings by himself.
And then he went to like adult theaters and he talks about that.
that and then he went to a dominatrix and he talks about that and all of that stuff that he did was so
sort of similar to stuff that Erica has done that she actually confessed to things to after that
confession after we discussed that one she talked about her recent Gloria whole experience that went
very well and she talks why it did as well as she has a new scenario I'm not going to tell you
what it is you're going to have to listen but it's super interesting it's a kink she had she set up this
relationship with this other guy to live out her kink and she's living it out and that guy and her
husband had a threesome recently but you'll have to hear about the whole kink and why she met him
and where she met him and what they're doing together super interesting and then we end it with a
foursome gone wrong some story and it's a super interesting one uh we both sort of analyze that one
and uh we wonder we only have one side of that story but it does lead us to talk about a lot of
things that can go wrong in, you know, any kind of swapping scenario.
Erica's great to have on this call because she's been there, done that.
All of this stuff that we're talking about here is like her life that she leads.
She happens to be a therapist.
And when you first listen to her, you're going to be like, wow, she's so buttoned up and
nice.
And then she's going to start throwing out the fact that she's been fisted before and all this
other crazy stuff.
That's what happens in this episode.
And you're going to be like, whoa, where did that come from?
Because that's who Erica is.
And that's just like so interesting about her.
She's been on my show before.
She's super hot.
She's all over my Discord.
She doesn't have any kind of like only fans or anything like that,
but she does post like very naughty things that she does at these glory holes.
And the things that she's talking about on this episode over on my Discord.
So sign up on my Patreon to get in there to see it.
She does not disappoint.
Okay.
She's super fun to have on this episode.
So I'm going to get right to it and get right to the first confession.
Hi, Kathy.
I love your show.
Big fan.
My confession in one sentence is that the other week I was,
the Gabai in my synagogue during the day and went at night with my wife to the sex club, a swingers
club, I guess. Gabai is the Hebrew word for somebody who helps run the services in the synagogue.
But the thing is that this is like a super religious, ultra-authodox synagogue, black hats, fur hats,
women praying separately. Yeah, so we're part of a very religious community.
and family. So if anybody knew what we were up to, they would freak out. I would freak out. We would freak out.
Short story with my wife and I is we've been married a long time and after like 20 years, things got a little stale.
My sex drive was like kind of a bit lost. We decided to try to spice things up with the help of a therapist.
And we started, you know, slow with doing things like the d'oire chutes. We went to her beletion.
show. We did a body painting class together. And yeah, so we then went to like king sex class.
We went to a new beach a couple of times, posting picks online. And yeah, and then we've been going a few
times to the swingers club. We just have fun with each other, but we enjoy, you know, the
exhibitionist, a little voyeurism type stuff. And we've been the closest we've ever been. And we've
ever been, having the time of our lives together, and really just our relationship is really so much
better. Just a side note, I know you talk a little bit about anal sex, and we also, after, I guess,
25 years or so, we gave it a try. We were always, like, kind of nervous or creeped out by it,
and now she friggin loves it. Her climax, or orgasms are off the charts, and it's just amazing.
Anyway, thanks again. Love your show. That's my confession. And keep up the good work.
Listen, I'm going to, I want you to talk about a lot of this one. But what I just want to say that I noticed that really stood out to me like first and foremost is if you really listen to this guy's trajectory, he went down a list, right? And the list was very tame. And then it got a little bit more risky, risky, you know, until he's like fucking swinging with his girl. And that is like, I think.
personally, the key to going from vanilla to hardcore because it's not like they just jumped right in,
right? I mean, I'm going to talk to him. Hopefully this guy's going to call in and I'm going to get the
whole story like how long did that whole thing take, right? But they really started out tame with
these little classes and then their classes got a little bit more and that, you know, and that's like a
great way to introduce stuff. And I don't even know if their end goal was to, you know, become what
they became. I highly doubt it.
But that's just where they went.
And it's such an interesting story to me.
That's just like what stood out.
And I just think that that's important for people to know that sometimes you can't.
Some people go from zero to 60, right?
Some people roll like that.
But most people don't.
And I just think that, you know, this is like a really interesting story because of that.
Well, and I just really commend them for recognizing that there was that kind of lull in their marriage.
And they had gotten, you know, things had gotten really stale.
And it sounds like they both were unhappy.
with that and then they both were willing to try new things. Not that you have to go to a sex
club to try new things, but just even recognizing that there is that lack of space in the
bedroom. My only thought about the whole sex club thing was I was thinking about that
guest that you had on a few years ago with the guy who was a young Jewish man who lost his
virginity at a sex club. Yeah, I remember. And I talked to him for quite some time. And I
think it's hard outside of that community to understand the like the community pressure and family
pressure that these people have. So I can definitely empathize with this man's fear of his family
or community finding out because it truly would be catastrophic if they were to be discovered.
And the other thing I did, yes, you're completely right. Listen, people need to know that you're like
a therapist. So like, you know, when you listen, like, of course the first thing that's going to jump out to you
is what you said in the beginning, which is like you commend them.
And that is a very important thing, you know.
But it wasn't like their idea of fixing the relationship was to go to a sex club.
They just did these little fun things.
Let's go to a body sculpting class or I forget all the things.
But they were very tame in the beginning, you know, but they just kept fucking going,
which is like super interesting.
And I'm really happy that they were both on the same page because when there's two people included,
you know, how do you know one person's not going to be like?
you know what, this is too far for me. No one did. I know. I know. And he says the relationships
better than ever. So good for them. I hope he does call it. I'd love to hear that whole story.
He is. And I have to say, like, that's why I love doing my show. I love a swinger gone wrong story.
I feel like I have one in this confession. There's a foursome gone wrong story. But, and I love a story of people
who maybe have been there, done that and stopped because it didn't work for them. I love those
stories because I think they're very real life. But why I typically love the ones like this, the ones
where people are better because of it and they're super successful. I taped it a couple yesterday that
have been doing it for 10 years. So it's not like, oh, well, let's see where they are 10 years later.
You know, they're, they are 10 years later. They're still doing it. They're happier, closer.
And why I love to show those stories is because that's what I think people can't fucking believe.
Let's see where they are 10 years later. They're, they are 10 years later. They're still doing it. They're happier,
closer and why I love to show those stories is because that's what I think people can't
fucking believe. Like Dr. Drew, that piece of fucking garbage. That's always talking about how it
could never work. Okay, you've never talked to one person so you don't know. I'm here to say,
I've never done anything like this, but I've talked to over a thousand couples. And it can work
and it does work. And when it does actually work, it actually has couples in a better
relationship than they were previously like this couple. Right. Absolutely.
When you are committed to working on something together, when you are open-minded with each other,
you can try different things.
Sure, you might have swing or gone wrong stories, even with a successful swinging couple
or whatever the lifestyle situation is.
There are going to be days and times when the situation doesn't go the way that you have
planned or wanted or fantasized about because that's life.
but I think that open-mindedness, that's what leads to the better relationship.
That open communication is what leads to the hotter relationship.
And I think that the foundation of having a really good relationship and a really open line
of communication, a really respectful partner is key because when those things do go wrong
and there's just like the wind blows a certain way one day and you're fucking jealous for
no reason over something that you've never been jealous before, you could go to your partner
bring it up and let it out and your partner's going to go there with you instead of shutting you down.
You know what I mean?
A lot of times that you, when you see that petty stuff where someone can't bring that stuff up,
that's where it's a very gone wrong story.
You know what I mean?
So I think this couple has been together for 25 years.
So they have that really close foundation to begin with.
And like you said, it's great that when they felt that the sex was going out the window
that they did something about it.
Because I personally listen, sex is not a whole part of a relationship.
Like it's not the whole relationship.
You know what I mean?
Like a lot of people do get married to someone just because.
they have good sex. Okay, it's not going to fucking be the end-all be-all. It's not going to keep your
relationship going. You can't just have good sex, but sex is a key part. Absolutely. And I think
that age or time of relationship shouldn't be the indicator of how hot your relationship is. I was listening
to your Susan Bratton episode yesterday, actually, and she was saying in her 60s, she's having the best
sex of her life. And I'm assuming this Jewish couple, they probably have multiple children. They're
probably at the time of their life where they have that time to spend with each other.
So it's amazing that they're fostering new types of intimacy, closer types of intimacy in their
later years. I think it's amazing. How long you've been with your guy? Because you're in a very
open relationship right from the get-go. I've been with him for four years now. Right. Okay. But so you
always had, though, an open relationship. It's not like you decided to open it. You were open, though,
with your first husband, too, right? I was. I was. I was open with him. And then during our, like,
child years, we weren't, and things really went by the wayside. I credit a lot of that just to a
lack of, like, sexual compatibility and communication. But yeah, with my current husband, we've been
together for four years, and we've been open the entire time. But I will say the openness has had
different iterations at different periods of time. Yeah, that's interesting. So it's ebbs and flows,
is what you're saying. And not always easy and perfect. Not easy and perfect at all. I will say we started more
on the traditional like female threesome's couple swaps and now we've kind of landed in more of the
hot wife lifestyle and it's been working out really well for us yeah well speaking of hot wives let's get to a
girl who just had a hot wife birthday surprise set up by her husband let's get to that oh yeah all right
okay i didn't give it i didn't totally give it away but let's get to the next confession hey kathy
this is haley from episode 956 and i just needed to be able to tell somebody what my
amazing husband did for me for my birthday a week ago.
So back from my episode, I let you know that my sex drive has gone into high gear after
not having much of one without the use of hormones due to health reasons.
And that's all thanks to my husband sharing me with younger men through threesomes and hotwifing.
We're only about eight months in and we are having a ball.
So for my birthday, he set me a...
up with a hotel room and a solo date with someone we knew but he wouldn't tell me who it was
and when he got there it turns out it was the guy that makes me squirt and has incredible stamina so
we started off with a really sensual massage for almost an hour and a bottle of wine and then we
moved into some really hot sex for about the next
three hours and we recorded about an hour of it for my husband so he had something to watch when
I got home I have to say one thing yeah I'm an East Coast gal you're an East Coast gal yeah something about
when I hear a lady with a southern accent talking about dirty situations really turns me on I don't
know why but it's just well I wonder why I want to analyze that so you were turned on by her fucking
hot-night story I was like oh that's that's
really hot. But wait, let me ask you this. Is it hot like you want to be there with her? Or is it hot
you want to be her or all of the above? I don't know. I mean, maybe all of the above. Like,
because I just, I guess, you know, you could kind of think of things like you have those associations.
So I, when I hear, you know, the southern accent, I think of just a very proper lady. And to think
of her like in a hotel room, you know, getting fucked by some young guy. I'm like, oh,
it's just just a little extra spicy from.
me. Yeah. Would you get into that kind of a surprise situation if your guy did it for you? Because
like this was a surprise. She didn't know what was going to go down. Who was going to show up?
Like as a hot wife yourself, because you just did say that you guys are more of the hot wife
scenario now. Right. So I will say kind of at the very beginning of our hot wife journey,
my husband would find the guys for me and I wouldn't know who they were. So I've had that before.
But at the time, he was with me. So now,
I play solo, but at the time, I didn't. So it was a little bit different. I do think that him setting up a
totally anonymous hot guy to meet me at a hotel would be really hot. Yeah. And to pick the one who
makes her squirt. I mean, that's kind of smart. Definitely. Well, so it sounds like she's been with him
before, which is a little different. But I have had some surprises over the years. Oh, really?
time. Yeah, I had one time that my husband brought over a guy who was, who's really into the
sensual massage. And we set up the massage table at home. And I had never met this guy before.
And he came over and he gave me an amazing massage. And at the time, my husband and I had just gotten
into fisting, actually. And so the masseuse and my husband took turns, you know, massaging me. But
then also fisting me on the massage table.
Oh, my God.
You could take a male fist in your vagina.
Yeah.
I know.
You never cease to amaze me.
You start out as this, I mean, talk about prim and proper.
You start out as this prim and proper therapist and now you're talking about fissing.
Oh, my God.
I think that's taking an unexpected turn.
Just when people think you're like, you know, one, one note.
I have not one note.
But, yeah.
But yes, it was definitely an experience.
And I've never seen that guy again, but I would be open to having a repeat massage.
Could I just ask you something quick about fissing?
Is that like kind of like an anal kind of thing?
Like, oh, you really like it and it's really hot, but it's like not on the menu all the time?
Or do you just like...
Definitely.
Yeah.
Definitely not on the menu all the time.
And it's just, I think that we kind of go through stages.
Like we've been through, we've been in the middle of like an anal stage.
the last couple weeks.
Finally yesterday, I told my husband, I'm like, we cannot do any more anal.
Like, I need to recover a little bit.
But yeah, I think it just kind of ups and flows.
And fisting is definitely a very intense experience.
And it's something that I enjoy, but I enjoy it a couple times a year.
It's definitely not on the menu on a Tuesday night.
Yeah, and I get it.
I mean, like, I feel like sometimes, like, if I'm, like, really getting off on anal for some reason,
And I go into that mode for like a couple of weeks, right?
And that's all you want, right?
And then it switches.
But fisting is like a couple times a year.
Right.
Yes.
And was it your guy?
Your guy is the first one that got you to be able to do it?
Oh, yeah, for sure.
And I've never had it with another guy other than the massage.
Oh, right, right, right.
Okay.
So that was actually super interesting.
I mean, I know that we're going to get some sort of confession of two different really
hot things you've done recently, but let's hold off because you just need us.
Okay.
some good stuff, and we're going to get to the next confession.
Hi, Kathy.
This is Jason.
I was on episode 537 a couple years ago, so I kind of give an update of what's been going on.
When I talked to, I just decided to try swingers clubs.
So I went to swingers clubs in the area for a few times, but for an old guy in the 60s,
you don't get very much luck, especially when a bunch of young military guys.
So I quit going there, but I found a place that has weekly gangbangs.
I go there sometimes three times a month or so.
it's different. I mean, I have a hard time performing when there's a group of guys with their cocks in their hand waiting their turn to fuck some lady.
But I found that I can get oral there while she's fucking someone, I can go through and put my dick in her mouth.
And that's, you know, obviously pretty enjoyable for me.
And every once in a while, I have an urge to go to an adult theater and suck a cock.
Don't do it very often, but I don't know, it's just something that's like I wanted to try.
I also, when I started going to a new DOM, in the last couple of years, I've seen her over 30 times now, and she's really got me into prostate play.
We've done bigger and bigger dildos as we go, and she's finally got to where she confessed me.
And when she does, my caucus is just losing the whole time.
And I also gotten me a lot more into sounding.
When I first went there, she just tried a few times, but now I've gotten to where I really enjoy it.
See the sounding is your fastest way to your prostate.
I've actually posted a picture of sounding me on your Discord on the BDSM site.
She's also got me into some electroplay, some forced-by situations.
It really helps me push my limits, and I really enjoy it.
One last thing, I've got another Dom that I used to go to,
but she'll randomly call me every once in a while.
She has a forced-by where she wants me to go over and have some guys suck my cock
or have me come on their face or something like that.
So that's something else I've been doing lately.
Anyway, thanks a lot.
Have a good day.
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wants me to go over and have some guys suck my cock or have me come on their face or something like that.
So that's something else I've been doing lately.
Anyway, thanks a lot.
Have a good day.
Bye.
Okay.
So listen, I have this guy's whole story because when he went through all this whole list,
I was like, oh, my God.
But in the beginning, I was like thinking to myself like, this is like the female you.
I mean, the male you.
Yeah.
I was thinking the same thing.
I was like, wow, Jason, get it.
Yeah, Jason is right there with you.
I mean, you do the gang gangs.
You go to swingers clubs and you go to glory holes and you've done it all.
And then when he got to the sounding, I'm like, okay, now we're going south.
Okay, and that's like, I can't even think about sounding.
When he was talking to me about it on my episode, I was like, I can't even imagine it.
But let's, like, I think I listened to that episode and I was like, what the fuck is this?
And I went down the rabbit hole of sounding after I listened to it.
Yeah, no.
But, I mean, is it common?
I mean, you've been in gangbanks before, correct?
Yes.
Yeah.
Yes, I have.
Is it common, like, for a guy like him because he says, like, for some reason he can't get it up.
And it's not like he has issues getting it up because he could, like, put his dick in the girls.
Matthew said and he's doing it and he could you know he's getting off all over the place at the
glory holes in the dominatrix you know but is that like a common thing with guys like stage fright at a
gang bang I think so at my gang bang I didn't have that experience thankfully but I have had it at other
you know group play scenarios and the biological reason behind it is if it's like fight or flight
is kicked in it's literally impossible to get an erection so for whatever reason he has
nervous system is worked up and so he's not able to get that erection um in that situation whereas a
glory hole you know he's just sticking his cock through there he might not feel the pressure of other
people watching him or you know i'm not sure exactly what's going on psychologically with him but it is
very common sometimes guys are actually like overstimulated and you know there's people fucking
everywhere so they're you know kind of distracted mentally and they can't get it up so it's a very
very common. I think, you know, you kind of see videos, only fans are porn, where the guys are just
rock hard all the time. And that's not reality. Typically, you know, people will fuck a little bit and
take a little break. It's not like nonstop erection for like an hour. I mean, that would be
fun if it was. Let me tell you, when I had Casey on who's like gang bang extraordinary, she's
been in over 50 of them.
It's her thing.
And she's like, if you show up to her fucking gang bang and you can't get it up,
she's not happy because she's there to get fucked.
Okay?
Rail.
You better be able to perform at Casey's gang bang.
Erica sounds a little bit more forgiving.
You are a therapist.
I am.
I kind of understand.
I will say, I was actually at the glory holes last night.
Oh, yeah.
Let's get to your confessions.
I feel like they fit in right with this guy.
You have a couple confessions to make the, you know, these are a kindred spirit.
it to me. Yeah, these are Erica's confession. Go on. Well, so we go to these parties that have
glory holes and you know, you never know what's going to come through the hole. Last night,
I turned to my husband. I said, I feel like I'm on a porno shoot. It was big fucking dick after
big fucking dick that came through those holes last night. Oh, were you like, wow, I hit the like
big dick jackpot? Oh, my.
God, Cassie, I was in heaven. It was about seven in a row, one bigger than another. One guy came through,
and he was a grower. I started sucking his cock, you know, it was kind of average, and then it just
kept growing and growing, and I have never experienced a dick like that. I actually looked at the
hole, you know, what you're not supposed to do, and I said, you have to come around and fuck me,
because I have to have this cock.
Like, it is just so big.
And I'm a size queen.
But this was the biggest that I have ever had by far.
Yeah, I was going to ask you if you can, like, fuck in a glory hole or do you just blow in a glory hole?
Well, I do both.
So they're, the setup that I like, they, at the parties we go to, there's about six or seven glory holes.
And they kind of have partitions between them.
And the corner I like, it's called the double.
level's corner and there's one straight on there's a whole straight on and then there's a whole
kind of to the side so i like to have two at once and go back between the two just due to my height
i'm only five two and then with heels i'm like five five five six there's the the whole straight on
is the right height for me to slip a condom on and then fuck him through through the hole so i do that
quite a bit if i if a cock comes through that i really like i will you know fuck
through the hole. But this giant cock last night, I had to just have them come back around and
fuck me right. Because I had to have it. Was there like were they all black guys? Was it a mesh?
Was it like a theme night? Yeah. So last night, usually the parties are a good mix of different,
you know, all different races, ethnicities. But last night it was predominantly black guys. I would say of
the seven Cox that I sucked, all but one were black. Right. So it was like a BBC party,
maybe. It was. It wasn't a theme that way. It just, it just ended up that way. The lady that
runs the party, she actually is a content creator and she specializes in like Lori Hall and
gang bang porn. So she has, you know, some of the guys that she typically films with come to the
parties. So that definitely helps skew the guest list sometimes. Right. But,
Last night, it was top tier.
And there's no filming going on because you don't do any kind of content creating, right?
Like this is a very secret life.
Yeah, it's a very secret life, but my husband and I do film the glory hole content.
I think I might have put a couple of little clips up on the Discord.
I'll definitely share one.
Yeah, put one up there for this episode when it comes out.
People want to see.
But that's only where you're sharing it.
You don't have like an only fan.
I don't have only fans or anything like that.
Yeah.
So it's just we film, but we film for it.
ourselves. We love watching it afterwards and it is our naughty little secret. How many like cocks
will you suck at night in a glory hall? Last night it was about seven. Oh my god. Yeah,
seven last night. And then how many guys did you fuck? I fucked two two I think. Okay.
Yeah, three. It was three. And yeah, it was tuna can, the genie. It was tuna can, the gen.
guy and then tuna can.
I guess because you get fisted all the time.
You could definitely take the tuna can in.
Not that hard.
Even with two hands, I couldn't put my hands all the way around him.
Wow.
You're fucking kidding me.
No.
And so how could you get that in your mouth?
I mean, did you?
I barely could.
I barely.
I mean, I wasn't deep-throating him or anything.
It was just kind of sucking the head and stroke.
because, I mean, this guy was a fucking monster.
Now, are you one of those girls remind me that, like, loves a cock in her mouth?
I do.
You know, because, listen, I, like, give good head because I'm into it, but it's more like,
because I'm turning the guy on, right?
Like, I know I'm turning them on.
It's like that kind of a thing.
But I'm not like, oh, my God, put a cock in my mouth and I'm going to get wet from it.
But I know that there are women out there.
It's a huge turn on.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You're one of them, right?
Obviously.
Huge turn on.
And then also, you know, my husband's.
Delming and he's encouraging me. He'll just be like gag on it, baby, you know, take it deep,
spit on it. Like, he's kind of giving artistic direction from behind. So, yeah, it's,
it's definitely a huge turn on. I know you had one other confat. Do you have one other confession
that goes along with this, the Gloria? Well, I do have another confession. I have been
seeing a sugar daddy recently. Oh, where do you meet him? Like on sugar daddy.com.
I did. I did meet him on a site. Okay. That specializes in arrangement type relationships.
Did you just have that kink? Like, because, you know, it's like you obviously don't need the cash or anything like that.
It's, is that like a kink for you? It is a kink. Yeah. So I've gotten a little bit into Fendom. I think we talked about it a few episodes ago where I'd have people contact me on FetLife and either want to buy my panties or just want to.
to have more intimate access to me via like Snapchat or something.
And so I'll be like, oh, here's my cash up, you know, spoiled me a little bit.
And I got a big turn on from that.
So I decided to take it a little bit farther.
Actually, I listened to one of your episodes about that married woman who basically goes wild
on her business trips.
Yes.
And she was, you know, meeting up with guys for money here and there as well, just as a kink,
not because she needed the money.
And I thought, oh, God, that sounds really fucking hot.
So I opened a profile just to kind of see what was out there.
And I let my husband know, and he thought it was hot too.
And I found this guy.
And this guy is perfect.
He is very successful.
He's very good looking.
He's very, no drama.
And Kathy, let me tell you, he is a fucking stud in the bedroom, too.
Yeah, do you think just because why is he like not attractive or like you just would assume like why are you surprised I'm going to say that he's a stud in the bedroom because he's looking for something transactional. You just assume. I think so. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I also think it's a little bit of a kink for him as well. Like he's been in a lifestyle on and off. He's participated in a bunch of gangbangs, threes, different, you know, orgies over the years. He's been to sex clubs. So we really vibe as far as our open-mindedness goes. But we're we're just vibing.
all.
How old is he?
It's been really great.
He's about my age.
I'm 40.
He's about 40, maybe 42.
Does he have a lot of cash?
Or is he just looking for like, like, or is there not much money being spent?
Is he a big money guy and he just does this like for fun?
He is.
He's in finance.
So he travels between D.C. and New York for finance.
So yeah, he does, he does quite well.
Right.
Okay.
And so how has it been hot for you knowing you've got this like Sugar Daddy?
it has been so hot it's been a huge turn on and every time that money hits my account it's a rush
and listen i just want to let people know before they come to you right because it's like it's just
like the fantasy of it right it's just like oh i'm like uh this for this night it's not like you're
doing it because you need the money right it's not like a material like it's not coming from being
materialistic. It's coming from like living out of fantasy. Absolutely. Yeah. And I'm 100% up front
with him about it as well. It's kind of like a mutual cake. Like it turns him on to be the sugar daddy.
And it turns me on to be on the receiving end. Of course. Yeah. And how long have you been seeing him?
Did you just see him for the first time? No, no. It's been a few months. Okay. And did you have a
threesome with him? I did. I just introduced him to my husband. We had a threesome the other day. It went.
so well. That title, I just had a threesome with my sugar daddy is a great confession.
And, you know, he, even when I see him solo, he is very into taking videos for my husband,
just the whole hot whiffing experience he's into. So it works out all around. But yeah,
we had a great three. He was very laid back and it was a good time by everyone. My husband was
very impressed with how well he fucks me. And I think we'll probably,
continue to, you know, try different things. He's actually interested in going to a glory hole party
with us, too. Oh, you're kidding. He's going to show up there. Now, is he into guys at all? And I was
going to ask you about like that with the glory holes or guys allowed to go in there at these parties or is that
like a no way. So these parties, one of the things I really love about them is they're very
inclusive to, to everyone. Very, very LGBTQ friendly. There are trans people there. There are, you know,
cross-dressers there.
It's very welcoming, which I love because I don't love that.
I don't like the stigma that the swinging community puts on by-play and gay individuals.
So I love it.
Yeah, anyone can go to the glory holes.
Anyone can play.
You know, it's very consent forward.
So before I put a condom on a guy, I always, I'll say to him, like, are you okay if I put a condom and fuck you?
Just because I want that consent to be there.
and I want everyone to be, you know, able to enjoy themselves in a safe environment.
Yeah.
I mean, is your sugar daddy into guys?
Did he hook up with your guy?
Because I know your guy will do some byplay.
He will.
He will do some byplay.
My guy, or my sugar daddy did not this time.
I haven't really broached the subject with him yet because I was kind of waiting to see
what his, you know, inclinations were.
Yeah.
So this was just a straight threesome.
But, you know, I'm hopeful.
I mean, he's participated in a little.
lot of male
heavy events.
Yeah, group sex. Yeah.
And he doesn't have any
desire for like a female threesome
or anything like that. So I don't know.
We'll see where it goes. I didn't want to push the envelope
too much the first time.
Well, I have a feeling that if, and we're going to move to the next
confession right after my last thought, but like I have a feeling,
you know, just like when you said, oh, I was surprised that he
like fucked so good and maybe you were surprised that he was good looking.
He shows up as a sugar daddy. You know, I'm sure.
where he felt the same way about you. I don't know because he did you know he was probably like there's
no way this chick is real because I have you all over my discord and you're super hot right you're like a
tan you're really hot you have a great body and you're really and you happen to be this therapist by day
really smart girl got your fucking shit together and by night holy shit you're like this beast um so you know
I feel like he would probably be like oh yeah and I met this girl and I didn't think she was gonna be
hot and I'm so surprised she really was.
I know.
He tells me all that time he's like, I hit fucking jackpot with you.
He did.
Oh, babe, I feel the same way.
Is he attractive?
He is.
Yeah, he is attractive.
Definitely attractive.
Yeah.
So he must have been, though, a hot guy on that app, though.
Like how, does he have other girls?
Do you know?
He doesn't.
He actually said, we matched the first day that he joined the app.
And he thought I was.
probably fake and everything.
And we struck up a conversation.
And, you know, I'm very, very, very selective.
It's not like I have five guys going.
Like, he's the only one.
And I wanted it to be someone who I truly liked and was attracted to since it was
fulfilling a kink.
I'm not doing this.
You know, and I have no shade for sex workers.
Like, people do what they have to do every day to put food on the table and make it in life.
And sometimes they do it because it turns them on too.
You know, who knows?
Yeah.
But for me, I needed it to be someone I was attracted to, someone that I had good vibes with, and he checked every single box.
Right.
This is a guy you'd fuck for free is the point.
Definitely.
Which is why I feel so.
Yeah.
So he has me on a monthly allowance.
And it's just been going well.
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Okay, well, Erica, you need to have him call into the show, okay?
I will talk to know about it.
I love to talk to that guy.
All right, let's get to the last confession.
Hi, Kathy.
This is simple fact is that me and my wife started off as typical couples.
It didn't really did much.
Then one day my wife started exploring with women.
And from women, we started exploring with couples.
Not any couple.
It took this time until we found the right couple.
We didn't with a couple for us.
close to two years, but unfortunately it had to come to an end because we want a couple that
really express themselves and not get too, seem to involve as a relationship.
There was a lot of jealousy with them as in if we would go out and we would run into them and
we would be a group's friends and we're just socializing, they became a little bit too
possessive over us like we were like their property. We couldn't talk to more.
other people and they would always think we're always looking for someone to look up with.
I always like to play a safe.
I'm not that type of guy who's sleep around with anybody.
And I guess I'm going to say how a for some became terrible.
And it got worse when the wife was somehow in the way and term marked her
territory with us.
She would tell everybody about a business where I like to keep things the streetfully
and a tonic as in no one has to know about a business.
keep to ourselves.
Yeah, it got really weird and possessive.
The husband got little suggestible than my wife.
I was to a point where, you know what?
I'm done.
I'm not pitching this subject no more.
So if you can, let me know what you think.
Okay, so you could understand that guy, right?
That's a foursome gone wrong.
I think when he said, and I'll just say this real quick,
and then you could talk to this because you've had foursomes,
threesomes, all kinds of moresums,
where he's like, where they were really looking for someone
who could really express themselves,
but not get too involved.
They really wanted people that could like fuck and have fun and all this shit, but not get
too involved.
I mean, this is like a rare thing.
I have rarely heard about this happening, but I'm sure it does, right?
I mean, I think anything is possible.
Yeah.
I can see both sides of this.
Oh, really?
It is incredibly difficult to find another couple that you like jive with, right?
I mean, you hear it all the time, like that four-way connection.
So from the standpoint of the other couple, if I found a couple that I was like, damn, like we have good chemistry all around.
They're cool people.
I would probably be a little possessive of them too.
But I get it.
That's very honest of you.
I mean, I didn't even think of that at all for even two seconds.
I was like, oh my God, this is so inappropriate of the other couple.
But you as a therapist and as a real person who's in this is like you could kind of see their side.
Interesting.
Right.
And but on the other side of it is you have to realize this is fun.
It's kind of a game in a way, you know, and so you can't get yourself too wrapped up in it unless the other couple is looking for polyamory, you know, there's all the different dynamics out there.
I think polyamory is becoming much more popular and mainstream.
And so there are couples that are kind of dating each other these days.
But if that's not what everyone's looking for, that's not going to work out.
And those expectations have to be like kind of communicated and explored or else you're going to end up with this type of end result where one couple is like, why are these people so possessive and obsessed with us?
And the other couples probably feeling like they're not getting their emotional or kind of like holistic needs met by the other couple.
So again, it comes back to communication.
There's nothing wrong with just having a very surface level relationship with a swinging, another swinging couple.
But then the other side of it is if you find someone that you jive with all around, there's also nothing wrong with dating that couple.
You know, couples dating each other.
So just sounds like uncommunicated expectations on both sides there.
I think, though, there's a little bit of this other couple has some fucking issues because I'm sorry.
Like, it's one thing to have feelings, right?
Like, it's one thing to feel possessive and to feel a little jealous.
But they're actually acting on it.
Like when he said she's actually going around and telling people their business and stuff and they don't, you know, that's like not.
That's not cool.
I mean, I think when it comes to the lifestyle, when you are like going and doing these kinds of things, that's like one of the things that just should be taken for granted that no one's going.
like out anybody and do anything and even if shit goes down and you have bad feelings you're not
to me that's like real petty stuff right you're going to go and do that you're not going to act on it
in this kind of way they sound very like immature emotionally immature like they can't handle their
fucking feelings and they probably shouldn't be uh yeah they might be more polyamorous than swingers
because like what your real your expectations are unrealistic like you're fucking another
couple you're having an open relationship obviously these people are into variety
You know what I mean?
They don't just want to fuck you.
Okay.
Most couples that are out there, you know, they're going to swingers clubs and doing all this stuff.
Like, I don't know.
I feel like maybe, yeah, maybe they, this is the other couple doesn't realize they need to be polyamorous.
I get couples all the time.
And I'm curious about you and I'm going to ask you this question.
But like I talk to couples and I always like to ask them.
Like, how do you like to roll with other couples that you hook up with?
Some of them want to become friends.
They need that emotional connection.
Like they are fucking friends and they want to stick with those people.
and fuck them all the time. And then I love when I get a couple only because it's so, you know,
it's a little bit more rare, but it exists. And I love it where they're like, no, we want to
hit it and quit it. Like we don't want any kind of interaction at all. Like, you know, like I said,
that's more rare. A lot of times the people in the swinger community or the people that I talk to
like to have that connection. How are you guys with your couples? Well, we're not really swingers.
We've done things where we've had, you know, gone out to dinner with people ahead of time,
done kind of that initial first date. But I don't, it's not really a kink of hours to just couple
swap. So we will definitely play with couples in a, you know, like a group play scenario at a party,
but we're not going to just set out on a Friday night just to have a couple swap. If we have a
free, a free night like we did the other night, we'll have a threesome with another guy. That's typically
how we play. And we do like to have that connection with the other guy. I like my guy to be,
you know, friendly with my husband and vice versa. And I like there to be like kind of that emotional
connection all around. That's ideal for us. Yeah. And let me ask you this because you're super
honest and I feel like you would be honest to this question. Now, you know, because you do like that
connection with your other guys, you know, when you got this new sugar daddy and he met you and he's just
with you, would there be any kind of jealousy on your part if he started to see somebody else?
I don't know. At this point in time, no, there wouldn't be. But I think maybe, you know, down the line,
it's, I've never been in this situation before, so I'm not sure. I will say we are totally open and
honest as far as sexual partners go from a health standpoint because he and I don't use condoms.
So we are very honest. And I, and he's told me.
some stories. I'm a little bit of a cut queen to a point. I love when he tells me stories of
fucking other girls while he's fucking me. And that was I turn on with my husband as well,
like when we were first together until kind of the feelings developed farther. And I didn't
like it anymore. Yeah. Interesting. So I don't know. We'll see. I mean, I will say my relationship with
my sugar daddy is completely different from my husband. I truly enjoy my time.
him. I think he's a great guy, but it's nothing compared to what I have with my husband.
Right. So I just wonder with this couple, I feel like they're crossing a line. I get wanting to
feel connected and wanting to, you know, keep that connection going because you finally found that
four-way connection. But to start acting, first of all, possessive. Like, I understand jealousy.
Like, I've been jealous in my life, but I don't believe in possessiveness. Like, I do not believe
anyone fucking owns anyone.
And I think that that's a whole different ballgame and that's really loaded.
And I don't think that's fucking cool.
Like, you know what I mean?
Like, I don't know.
I don't think it's cool based on the information that he provided.
Exactly.
There's a lot of missing pieces.
Like, oh, he's coming on the show though, by the way.
I'm like, I need the whole.
Make sure you listen to it.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
No, give it your questions.
And I'll get, I'll have them for you.
Well, I mean, yeah.
I mean, the situation where they were kind of going around saying, oh, we've been with
them or seeming upset about it. Like, did they go out to dinner with the couple ahead of time?
Like, was there that expectation that they were going to kind of be playing with each other that
night and then the other couple blew them off? Or was there a lot of alcohol involved? And now
emotions are heightened and people are acting in ways they wouldn't typically act, you know,
during their sober state. It's just, there's just a lot of variables there. Yeah. And you're
completely right. I, you know, we have literally only their side of the story and it's very skewed
one way and I can't wait to talk to them and I almost hope that they did everything wrong and it's
all their fault because that would be so fucking funny. Yeah, definitely going to have to listen because now
I'm invested. I'm invested in them. I'm invested in the Jewish couple. I love the southern hot wife.
I'd love to talk to her. Oh yeah. That's Ailey. She called in before. You could hear her talk in that
accent for a whole fucking hour. She's called in before. So we do have her. I have her a whole episode.
these people are calling it and I think
you know I never really saw it that way but you're
completely right there are a lot
of reasons and things that they could
have done you know
being young and dumb maybe I don't know
they sound like a young couple you know maybe they're the
petty ones like you know that could have made them
react in certain ways and you hear it all the time
right your friends come to you or guys come to you like oh my god
I can't believe my partner's doing this and that and you're like
yeah but you did this and that first I mean like
fucking look at it the right way right
and that's what you're saying here and that
very well could be true so
I'm going to dig deep with this couple.
Yes, yes.
You've got to investigate further.
Yeah.
Have you ever though?
My last question to you and then we're done is with your guys, right?
Because like, you know, this guy, you're like, I don't think I'd ever feel sort of
jealous or anything with him.
With any of your other guys because you have had other bulls in your life and guys that
you've been close to that you've banging on the side, have there ever been any kind of
feelings like that for them?
No.
No.
No, I've never felt jealous or possessive of any one.
want to accept my husband. And it's always just been the opposite. I love to hear dirty stories.
Right. You got that little cut clean in you. I do. I do. But just not for my husband.
Yeah, because you tried it once, though. We'll give you credit, right? We've tried. Yeah,
we've tried it multiple times and to varying degrees of success. But it is what it is. Like,
it's just not a turn on for me. And I've accepted that. It's not something I don't tell my husband,
and you're not allowed to play with others,
or you have to do this and that,
because I'm not controlling, and we are open,
but I can say it's just not a turn on.
Right.
And listen, you tried and you guys,
but you didn't like it,
and you talked about it,
and you got past that.
I mean, that's like,
it kind of comes full circle
to what you were talking about in the beginning.
Like, things might come up and things have come up,
and this is one of the things that has come up in your relationship,
but you were able to work through it,
and your husband's able to,
accept the fact that that's just where you're at. I mean, you're a girl that gets fisted, blows seven guys
at one time. Like, I mean, you know, you're kind of giving a lot. Yeah. Right. You kind of give a lot.
If this is something that, you know, it's just, you're just not into it. Like you tried.
Right. Right. What can you do? Definitely. Definitely. Yeah, we tried. We've, we've given it,
you know, several tries. But you know what, Kathy, I also recognize that this is one point in time.
I am going to have the rest of my lifetime, hopefully, with this man. And so.
we're open,
open-minded, right?
So just because today it isn't a turn-on doesn't mean that five years from now,
we are in a completely different headspace when it comes to what we're into.
I totally believe that because I've talked to couples like very long-term couples, right,
who eventually start doing things that they never thought they would of in the beginning,
you know, like solo play, like having like even more hardcore in that they started having
boyfriends and girlfriends.
And it was something that they could have never done in the beginning.
And even when they started doing it, it wasn't really that easy.
But eventually over time, it became something that they do and they're totally in a different place.
So, yeah, I could totally see that.
You know, 10 years from now.
Who knows?
You're only four years in.
That's not a long time.
No, no, not at all.
And we've covered a lot of ground in that four years.
But we have a long way to go.
And we just, we talk about what it is, what we want, what we don't want.
And we continue to grow and change.
And that's fine.
And we're going to experience new things together.
we're going to have things we enjoy and things we don't enjoy.
We're both open to that.
Yeah.
So I can't wait to hear this for some gone wrong story and just see if these people are having
the problem.
And I can't.
You know what I mean?
But I think this is going to air before I talk to them.
So hopefully they hear and they come full sticking up for themselves or being like a little
freaked out because they know I'm going to find out it's all their fault.
I told you.
It would be so interesting if you got like both couples perspective.
I know.
I know.
But no, I could get.
a real perspective even from one side.
I'm kind of like Judge Dutty.
Like if they're fucking wrong, like if they're wrong, I'll be able to get that.
You'll call it.
Yeah.
Yeah, I will.
Right.
Yeah.
Yeah.
All right.
Listen, Erica,
thank you so much for calling in.
Absolutely.
Through this stuff.
You are a therapist, but you don't help people on my show so people can't find
you that way.
You don't have an only fan.
But they can go to my Discord and see you.
And I always put up hot picks of you on my patrons to send me some more hot picks of you.
go to Discord and put like one of those gloryhole things for people to see when this is going to go out on Wednesday.
And thanks so much for calling in and talking through this stuff with me and doing your own confessions.
You never disappoint.
Thank you, Kathy.
Any time.
I'll talk to you soon.
All right.
Awesome.
This was great.
Thanks, Erica.
Okay.
Bye.
Bye.
Okay.
I just want to tell you before you go that my book, it's called Strictly anonymous confession, secret sex lives of total strangers, is now available not only in paper,
an e-book, but you can pre-order the audio book. It's still not going to be out until August 25th,
but you can pre-order it. The book is basically 17 different stories taken from my show.
I kind of picked one story from each category that I talk about on my show. Like,
there's a hot wife story. There's a cuck queen story. There's a cuck story. There's a gang-being
girl story. Like I said, 17 stories. And they're all told in the third person. And
are all true. I took the interview and rewrote it in the third person and I wouldn't really call it like
a total erotica book. Think like penthouse letters. It's more direct. It's not so over the top like erotica.
I don't really like that kind of vibe, right? But these are true stories. 17 of them. They're really
short chapters, easy read. You could read, you know, one or two and then skip around. You could read
the whole book. It's available in eback format, paperback format.
And finally, the audio book is available coming out August 25th, but you could pre-order it now.
And if you buy my book in any format or pre-order it, I will throw in a complimentary link to my
Discord.
My Discord does not disappoint, okay?
There's no way you get into my Discord any other way than getting the link from me, okay?
I give it to people who buy my book.
There's tons of people in there.
Everybody shares content with each other, and that's what you get to do there.
You could post your own pictures and videos. There's tons of channels. We have lots of
contests where you can win a lot of money. It's a super fun place to be. It's a total strictly
anonymous community and you will love it. I will be giving anyone who buys my book access to
my Discord. It's private, like I said. All you got to do is email me a screenshot of your purchase,
whether you did the audiobook, the e-book or the paperback. Send it to me at strictly anonymous
Podcast at gmail.com. That's strictly anonymous podcast at gmail.com. And I will send you the link to
Discord. So anyway, thanks so much for tuning in. This is the strictly anonymous podcast.
Good news. Strictly anonymous podcast is looking for people to call into the show. So if you lead an
interesting, naughty secret life that you want to talk about while remaining anonymous or not anonymous,
if you're out and proud, that's cool too.
Send me an email, strictly anonymous podcast at gmail.com.
That's strictly anonymous podcast at gmail.com.
Or go to my website, strictly anonymous podcast.com and click on, be on the show.
If you have a short confession that you want to get off your back, call my confessions hotline.
347-4-203579.
That's 347-4-4-203579.
You could call that number 24-7.
I change all the voices on the confessions too.
So you remain anonymous.
The number, the website, and the email address will all be in the description.
If you want to follow the show, follow me at Strict Anonymous on either Instagram or Twitter.
That's at Strict Anonymous.
And if you want to sign up for my Patreon, you're not only supporting my show,
but you're going to get all of these episodes early and ad free.
You're going to get anonymous picks of all of my guests.
Most of the girls send me in anonymous hot picks of them.
and some of the guys are sending me in anonymous picks as well. You also get access to my
private Discord where people are getting super naughty. If you sign up for my Discord, you could post
whatever you want and talk to my other listeners. To sign up for my Patreon, just go to patreon.com
slash strictly anonymous podcast. That's Patreon.com slash strictly anonymous podcast.
The links and everything else I spoke about are all in the description. Thanks so much for listening.
