Strictly Anonymous Confessions - 1179 - Hormone Optimization, the O-Shot & P-Shot and More w/ Dr. Amy Killen

Episode Date: July 26, 2025

Dr. Amy Killen called in to talk all about bioidentical hormone optimization for both men and women and ended up diving into so much more on sexual health and longevity. Tune in to hear her discuss the flawed study that created the stigma around HRT, when perimenopause typically starts and its common symptoms, the difference between hormone replacement therapy and hormone optimization therapy—and why she prefers optimization, when testosterone usually starts to decline in men and the symptoms that may appear, the various ways men can take testosterone and which she prefers, how and why she believes most women should use vaginal estrogen cream—and why it’s never too late to start, how and why she supports GLP-1s and what they can treat, how she personally used a GLP-1 and how it helped her, the O-Shot and P-Shot and how she administers them, the O-Shot benefits for women, the P-Shot benefits for men, shockwave therapy and what she loves to use it for, insurance coverage and pricing of bioidentical hormones for both men and women, how she started out as an ER doctor and became a leading longevity and regenerative physician—and so much more. Dr. Amy Killen is a regenerative physician and leading sexual medicine practitioner, well known for her practical, science-based approach. You can find more info here:https://dramykillen.com **To see pics of my female guests + hear anonymous confessions + get all the episodes early and AD FREE, join my Patreon! It's only $7 a month and you can cancel at any time. You can sign up here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.patreon.com/StrictlyAnonymousPodcast⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and when you join, I'll throw in a complimentary link to my private Discord! MY BOOK IS NOW OUT FOR PRE-ORDER!!!! Strictly Anonymous Confessions: Secret Sex Lives of Total Strangers. A bunch of short, super sexy, TRUE stories. GET YOUR COPY NOW: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://amzn.to/4i7hBCd⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠  To join SDC and get a FREE Trial! click here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.sdc.com/?ref=37712⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ or go to SDC.com and use my code 37712  Want to be on the show? Email me at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠[e-mail]⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ or go to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://www.strictlyanonymouspodcast.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and click on "Be on the Show" Have something quick you want to confess while remaining anonymous? Call the CONFESSIONS hotline at 347-420-3579. You can call 24/7. All voices are changed.  Sponsors: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://butterwellness.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Use the code “STRICTLY” at checkout for 20% off your entire order ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://liferx.md⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Start your transformation now and get $50 OFF your first month, use code: ANONYMOUS ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://vb.health⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ To get 10% off Drive and LOAD Boost by VB Health use code: STRICTLY ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bluechew.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Get your first month of the new Blewchew Max FREE! use code: STRICTLYANON ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://beducate.me/pd2520-anonymous⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Use code: ANONYMOUS to get 50% off your yearly pass plus get a 14-day money-back guarantee  *The information on this episode is not intended or implied to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. All content and information available through this episode is for general information purposes only. Please consult your health care provider before making any healthcare decisions or for guidance about a specific medical condition. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I'm always looking for people to call in. Just send me an email. It's strictly anonymous podcast at gmail.com. Or go to my website and just click on Be on the Show. If you want to leave a naughty confession, I do have a confessions line, and you can call that number 247. It's 347, 4203579. That's 347, 4203579.

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you're not going to get intros in your episodes. You're also not going to get ads. You get ad-free episodes, intro-free episodes, and early episodes, as well as Q&As that I do. You also get all the anonymous confessions. Fessions that have come into the show. You also get to see picks of mostly every single woman that's been on my show has a pick over on my Patreon. And I also have a great Discord channel. Now, my Discord channel is private, closed down. It's a not safe for work site. It's 18 plus. But if you are of age

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And like I said, my Discord is a super fun place. You'll totally dig it. The links to everything, like my book, which is on Amazon, and you can read all about it, is over in the description, as well as my link to my Patreon. Now, if you're looking to get into the lifestyle, I do have a deal with SDC,

and I can offer my listeners, a free trial. Okay. SDC is like the world's largest adult online dating site, but you could do more on there than just date people or meet people. Okay, you can find out about all the lifestyle stuff in your area, as well as get educated on the lifestyle. It's kind of like a one-stop shop.

To get your free trial, you could use my code 377.1-2 or just go to the link in the description, click on it, and you're going to get your free trial. Okay. So today I have on Dr. Amy Killen. I'm a little all over the place when I talk to her asking her a million different questions about so many different things because I do actually love doctors like her. She's a well-known regenerative and anti-aging physician. She focuses a lot on sexual health and wellness as long as longevity.

I mean, she is into all the things that people are into nowadays. but she's been into them for a long time. She was very ahead of the game, if you ask me. All the stuff that she talks about, I love, I believe in it, but she was doing stem cells and bioidentical hormones and shockwaves and like 10 years ago. She has a couple clinics throughout the United States. We talk a lot about hormone replacement therapy, bioidentical hormone replacement therapy for both men and women.

We talk about the P shot, we talk about the O shot. She talks about why she got into. this field because she was an ER doctor and she made the switch and she's been doing this and like I said she now has three different clinics. She's pretty amazing. If you want to check around, I'm going to put her website in the description. She's also on Instagram if you want more information. She's super smart. She gives you a lot of great information I think on hormones for both men and women. So I'm going to get right to it and be right back on with Dr. Amy Killen. Hi, Dr. Amy Killen. Welcome to the Strictly Anonymous podcast. How are you today?

I'm great. Thanks for having me. No, thanks for coming on. You're my kind of doctor. I was a little sad that when I realized you're not in New York City because I'd be like I'm going to come to you. You're actually, you're a doctor. You focus mainly now in regenerative, uh, anti-aging medicine. You deal a lot in sexual wellness. We're going to be talking about like hormones for both men and women, right? Uh, I might wind up asking you some other kinds of things because I'm interested in everything that you do. I've been on hormones for, of, since, I went into perimenopause and, you know, I think we'll probably start there. But we're also going to talk about antropause, which is menopause for men, right? Yep. Yep. Yeah. So, and now, can I just ask you a quick question? Because I thought it was really interesting when I was looking you up.

Like, you used to be an ER doctor, right? That's right. Yeah, I did emergency medicine for 10 years. That was my initial medical training. And then I got out in about 2013. Oh, my God. Was it like fun, as fun as it seems or interesting? You know, it's so fun.

It can be so fun. also can be pretty boring. Yeah. Oh, really? Boring? Well, you get a lot of like toothaches and back pain and, you know, like just things like that. But in between that, you get people who are really sick and you get to help them. So there's a lot of, a lot of cool stuff about the ER also. So what made you switch over? I had, I had three kids within two years. And so I had three kids under age two. And my husband had moved out of state for a job. And so I was working in the ER, getting up at 3.30 in the morning to go to work. And I was just not eating well, not sleeping, stressed out, like all the things and kind of not thriving. And then I just kind of realized that if I didn't make some changes,

I was going to be one of these patients coming to the ER for treatment for some kind of chronic medical problem that could have been prevented. And I realized that I didn't want that. So I started learning about how to be healthy. Right. And now could I ask you? I don't know if this is rude to ask. You're not supposed to ask it at someone's age, but I'm wondering like our indigia, you know, because we're going to be talking a lot of like hormones and I went through perimenopause. I'm already in menopause. I'm just wondering, were you around? Like were you there yet at this time or this was just like after your kids, you were still young? No, they were young.

I'm 49 now. So this was back in 2013. So they were like, you know, two, three years old at the time. So I was still in my, in my like mid-30s then. Yeah. Well, I mean, listen, I do a show where I have people calling in and talking about their secret lives. And a lot of times there is a huge shift in libido after kids.

Yeah. Is that something that like you could only use hormones when you're older? Or are there things that you treat like that when it happens, like even at that younger age? You can certainly at least look at hormones when you're younger. Oftentimes you don't need to give hormones back. Sometimes it's just a matter of, you know, changing lifestyle, changing the way you deal with stress, you know, things like that, because you can usually still make your own hormones. Yeah. Both men and women. But certainly as you get closer to 40, you know, our ability to make testosterone goes down with age, both men and women. And then, of course, women are going into peri menopause also.

Yeah, I called Perry fucking Menopause. I wrote a book with a doctor. We just never published it. Because when I went through it, like many, many years ago when people still weren't talking about it, it has totally changed finally. Everybody's talking about it. And I'm so happy. But I was always into it. I went on the minute I turned 46, I got on, when I was going through perimenopause, you know? And it's a little harder to balance right then. But why don't we talk about that?

Like, when it starts for women, like in perimenopause. Or you know what? Actually, I want to start out first because there's a lot of people I think that still think that HRT hormones, hormone replacement. therapy is a big no-no because of that study that they did. But it's changing and there's information out there. But why don't you give out that information for people that still remember the big stigma around hormones? Yeah, the big stigma, you know, in 2002 is when that big study came out and it basically scared everyone into taking hormones. But we learned after that that it was, they were using the wrong hormones in the wrong population of women. They were using these synthetic

hormones, which we don't use anymore. And they were also treating much older women who had already been in menopause for 15 years or so. Yeah. So now we use biothetical hormones, which, you know, the chemical structure just matches what your body makes. So they're much safer. And we make sure that we're balancing them and using them in the right doses. And so we, there is no increased risk now, you know, in these hormones with a breast

cancer or heart disease or dementia or even blood clots in the way we use them. Yeah. And talk a little bit about testosterone because, you know, I do testosterone injections and I get them through my doctor, but they're not covered for women, but it's covered for men. Like, do you think that that change is going to come anytime soon? Like, what is that all about? You know, we've tried. There have been several drugs that have gone through the FDA process to try to be a testosterone

for women and they keep denying it. But, you know, women need testosterone. We actually have more testosterone on our bodies than we do estrogen. And yet we don't have an FDA approved testosterone for women. So we have to give it off label, which we do. We still prescribe it, but it has to be that off label for women. Yeah, and we don't get it covered by insurance. It's not that expensive because I do injections, right?

And my bottle lasts me a long time. So it's really not that. expensive. It's not, yeah. Yeah. And so let's talk about like for for women like perimenopause around. I mean, listen, I know there's always could be people that are like an early onset, right, or late onset, but like what is the typical age that women will start experience perimenopause? And like what are the symptoms that they might feel that could lead them to your office to and get on some hormones? A typical age is around 40. Certainly you can be earlier. You can be 35 or even or younger, but 40ish 45 very common. And It starts all at times with things like a little bit of weight gain or belly fat shifting, you know, belly bat starting as well as difficulty sleeping. Anxiety is very common during that stage. Even like heart palpitations, people end up in the cardiologist's artis because their heart is, you know, hearts racing and they're having weird symptoms like that.

But it can also be other weird things like, you know, dry skin or joint pain or waking up with muscles hurting. The list is like 30 things long that it can happen. And so, you know, women oftentimes will see three or four or five doctors to try to figure out what's going on when it's all just perimenopies. Yeah. And I found that a little bit of hormones took, like majorly took the edge off. You know, at that time when I went into perimenopause, I was seeing a very traditional, very big, well-known menopause specialist in New York City, but she didn't believe in what you believe in, which I do now, which is hormone optimization

therapy. Why don't you explain the difference between H-R-T and what you say H-O-T, hot, which I love? Yeah, I say hormone. Because optimization, is really the goal. Like, we're not necessarily just treating menopause or just treating, even just treating the symptoms. Like, we're actually trying to optimize hormones so that we can help prevent future diseases as well as treat symptoms today. So I call it hormone optimization therapy. Right. And like optimization, like I always feel like the difference of that is like if a doctor believes in that, they're going to be giving you probably more hormones than a doctor that doesn't believe in that. And you're maybe when you get your labs back, you're going to be in the high range.

but that's like high for your age, right? But it's not hot, like you can be high for your age, right? Yeah. Yeah, that's true. The lab reference ranges are, you know, they're based on age. It looks at the population and says, hey, for 45-year-old women, what is the normal estrogen level or whatever for your age and it gives you this range, but that's not always what's optimal.

So we oftentimes will look at what's the sort of normal range for like a 25 or 30-year-old woman or man, and then we say that's our reference range. we want to be, you know, generally for testosterone, for instance, towards the, you know, middle to upper end of that reference range. Yeah. Now, something that I talked about recently on my show is that most guys don't really use sex toys. And I don't understand why they don't.

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you buy. That's butterwellness.com, B-U-T-T-E-R-W-E-L-N-E-S-S dot com. Use my code strictly at checkout or just go to the description, click on the link and use my code strictly. What's the sort of normal range for like a 25 or 30-year-old woman or man? And then we say that's our reference range. And we want to be, you know, generally. for testosterone, for instance, towards the middle to upper end of that reference range. Yeah, exactly. And for men, when do you see guys coming into your office where they're feeling a little bit different and going into?

Is there like a peri for andropos? Like, is there a pre-andropos? That's a good question. It's not talked about for sure, but they're, anthropot, you know, testosterone is different in that it starts to decline, in both men and women, it starts to decline at about age 20 or 25. So it's just kind of slowly marching down year by year. And so it's usually at about age 40 that men start to really notice it.

But certainly some men are younger. I see 30-year-olds who have low testosterone because testosterone is also associated with, you know, with metabolic disease. So like weight gain and not exercising and poor diet and stress and all those things. So it can be lifestyle related or it can also just be aging related. Right. And so if a guy comes to you and he just does, he fills off and he's having those kind of symptoms, you'll do the test first, right?

Because sometimes I know that like, you know, the labs could say one. thing, but a lot of doctors are like they treat by the symptoms, right? I mean, sometimes labs could seem kind of normal or in range, quote unquote, but if you have zero libido and you're feeling tired all the time and you're waking up in the middle of night, you can't go to sleep. Like, maybe some hormones will help that, right? Yeah. And actually, and especially in women, we know that with testosterone and women, the lab reference ranges are not all that helpful. In fact, the symptoms, symptoms are much more helpful, like low libido symptoms, arousal symptoms. Those are, if you have those symptoms, it's always worth a shot to try testosterone. With men, the labs, you know,

they don't tell us everything, but they're a good starting point. And then certainly you can always try testosterone and see if it helps. And like, you know, I had a guy on recently who was taking testosterone. He was an older guy in his 60s and he sent me in a pick and he was like jacked. He looked amazing. And I couldn't believe like how the guys went after him. It was a bit odd to me. I was like, what are you jealous? I don't get it because he looks great. And anyone that's like that jacked up is working out really hard and they're like, oh, he must have roid rage like he's doing too much testosterone. I mean, there's this weird thing that people think of testosterone and roid rage together. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. It's silly because really testosterone,

honestly, if you, I see men who have like, who have like anger issues or aggression, oftentimes they have low testosterone. Like they need testosterone because they are like they're just not happy and they're achy and they feel bad and they are, you know, they're just angry. And oftentimes increasing testosterone makes them much happier and like chills them out. Certainly at some point, much, you know, if you're like three or four or five times the normal level of testosterone, then you might be aggressive. But if you're keeping in the normal range, they're not going to have that usually. Yeah. And I think, you know, back in my day when I was working out with some guys, some weightlifters, they were like had a little roid rage because they were doing it in like,

they were overusing it for the wrong reasons. And that's where I think that whole stigma comes from, right? But when someone comes to your office, what are the different ways that they could get their testosterone. I mostly use creams and injections. You can use pellets. I don't use them as much as I used to, but injections and creams both work really well for men. I didn't know. I did pellets and I don't, you know, I didn't like it. I felt like there was a big roller coaster ride, you know, very, very up and then down and because I work out a lot, I felt like they went through my body super quick and I'm like, who wants to go back? Plus it hurts. Have you ever had pellets? I mean, I did. I had it once and I didn't. I was like after that, I was like, I think I've done. I didn't, I don't mind them for,

they're great for like people who are in the military. They're gone for several months. I don't, but other than that, I don't like them for most people. Because once they're in, if you have a side effect or problem, too bad, like they're in for three to five or so months. And so you can't do much about, you know, if you have too much testosterone or too much hormones, you're just stuck with it for several months, which is not ideal. Yeah, exactly. And when you do injections, do you do them like, a friend of mine yesterday was telling me that he was like these, you're getting pre-filled things, and he was doing it every day. And I know that guys typically do it, you know, a bigger dose for like once a week or every other week. Like, how do you dose guys?

Yeah, I've actually switched to doing more of the like every other day versus like once a week. Because once a week, you get a big high level, but then it comes back down. And so you can tend to have more side effects. But if you're doing it a little bit more stable, as long as that guy doesn't mind, you can actually do it even subcutaneous, which is like a tiny little needle like in the stomach versus like that big that big ass needle that you put in your butt or your arm. So you can do it like every other day or even every day. Every day is a lot. But you could you could do it that way if you wanted. If you don't mind the needles. I mean, you know, I don't mind. I switched my injections to three days a week and I like that better. Yeah. It's kind of a more even level, which is nice. Yeah. And so for

women, you know, talk about how the hormones that you put them on because some people, like I had a friend who told me she was just on estrogen, estradile without progesterone. And I'm like, I don't think a doctor would ever not give you progesterone with esterile, correct? Like, I mean, just explain, like, what kind of hormones women get when they come to you. So in, like, late pariomynipause and menopause, if we're giving estradial, I always give progesterone with it. Technically, if you don't have a uterus, you don't have to take progesterone. Right. If you're taking estradial, but I always give them together because they're kind of like a yin and yang. They work very much, you know, together, and then you want them, you want both. You want the progesterone as well as the

estradiol. So I give those two. And then plus or minus testosterone, not everyone, not everyone needs it, but if you need it, it's great. And then, you know, and then sometimes we also give a little bit of thyroid if you need it. We're looking at the whole system, not just your sex hormones. So we're looking at, you know, everything else that's going on too. Yeah. And then do you test every three months? Like, is it important? Like, I think it's, I like being tested every three months in the beginning just to make sure you're getting like the right dose and stuff like that. Is that how you run your Yeah. Yeah. And Mike, I have a clinic, I have so clinics called Humanaught and several clinics. And we usually do every three months, ideally, and certainly if you've been on hormones for a while, you can space it out

a little bit, maybe every six months. But especially if you're working on something, it's good to check pretty frequently. Right. And now, I know, like in pari menopause, like, I always would say, like I've read, it's like your ovaries last hurrah. So sometimes you could be like really horny, right? Like crazy, like, you're like, what the heck is going on? It's why so many women in their 40s are banging 25-year-olds. I'm sorry. I was when I was 40. I had a 25-year-old from the gym. I mean, it was gorgeous. And so like I'm just like and then after that it could go south, you know, when you hit menopause. But right before it's like pretty crazy, right? Like is that just the normal thing that happens in paring menopause?

You know, it's interesting that you say that because I see this too and I see this in myself also. I'm like, why am I so worked up today? I don't know the reason for it because testosterone is continuing to go down like unless you're replacing it. Maybe it's about the ratios of estrogen and testosterone. Like maybe those are the issue, or like the thing that's giving you that superpower. But it's a thing for sure. I could totally see where younger guys are getting harassed by older women. But also could, yeah, I know, right?

It's like, I mean, it's the best. But, like, also could it be maybe because your estrogen is, like, going up sometimes, like, skyrocketing? Because I know that, like, a lot of people think, oh, sex drive is testosterone. So all testosterone. But isn't it estrogen, too, or astrodial? It is. Right? Yeah.

It's actually all three. Estrogen progesterone and testosterone all play a role in desire and arousal. So it absolutely could be that you have, you know, we, you know, we, you have that really fluctuating estrogen in parimenopause where it can go sky high and then come back down again. So yeah, it could be. I don't know for sure why it is. And I'm not even sure if it's been steady, but I think it would be a great thing to study. Yeah. And so if a woman comes to you and she has a couple of those symptoms and she also has like low libido, she's getting towards menopause or she's already in manopause and vaginal dryness. Can you talk about like what

hormones can do for those kinds of symptoms? Yeah. So I think all women over the age of 45 or so, at least should think they should think about doing a low-dose vaginal estrogen, which is just like three times a week, such a vaginal estrogen before bed. It's completely safe for everyone, even breast cancer survivors, everyone. And it is amazing for keeping the entire pelvic floor healthy for help, you know, with certainly sexual health, but also just bladder health and not, you know, not having UTIs and not having infections and things like that. So it's one of the most underutilized tool for women, and not even just those women, women who are breastfeeding for a long time, or women who don't have cycles because they're, you know, over-training at the gym or whatever, we need to be using that drug a lot more.

Yeah. And there is something too, like if you don't use it, you lose it too, correct? Like around that time, like when you're transferring over. And unfortunately, I remember when I did the book with the doctor, she was saying it's kind of like, you know, everything's coming together at once and it's a little unfortunate. Like you're kind of losing your hormone, so your libido is going down. Maybe you've been married to the same guy for 30 years, so you're not, you're barely having sex. right so you kind of can lose it because you're not using it whereas i talk to some women and i love

talking to the women who are like still super horny went through menopause never lost her libido because they met like a new guy around that time and they were like having sex all the time and so i do think isn't there something to that with libido there's a lot of debate there's a lot of debate about use it or lose it piece in terms of like you know vaginal clitoral health all of that like i've seen kind of like both sides of that certainly the hormones play a role and certainly the you know having a new partner being excited. Like obviously, we know the brain is kind of the biggest sex organ. So that is that part of it is definitely important for sure.

Yeah. And I mean, a lot of times, you know, women think that, you know, going on hormones, you're going to lose all the weight because weight gain and menopause and even starts in pari monopause. You're going to go on hormones and it's going to go away. And I didn't find that hormones, like hormones was a quick fix for a lot of things. Like I love them, you know. But I didn't feel like it was the big quick fix for weight gain.

Like isn't that the most important time for women to really start working out and doing everything else like hormones or are just going to take all the weight off, right? No, they usually don't. I think that that's a great point. You know, it's interesting. Women, we don't actually, I mean, we think that we gain a lot of weight. But if you look at the actual studies, we're not necessarily gaining weight, but we are having shifting of fat mass. Right. So it's shifting from like your thighs and your butt to your belly, for instance.

And so it doesn't look as good. And that is, that's what's usually happening with age. And we're losing muscle mass in gaining fat. So like we don't look as good in our clothes, even if we weigh the same amount. So yeah, working out, especially weight training is, it's hugely important, you know, starting, certainly starting earlier, but by the time you hit 40, that should be a big part of your day. You want to have like the best sex ever, like top of the mountain sex? Well, then you need to check out Blue Chew.

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because that always had me looking great and feeling great, you know, and keeping that muscle. But when I was in pari menopause, the hormones that I was on, my doctor didn't give me testosterone. She didn't believe in it. Like, I was just on Eshidal and progesterone. And no matter how hard I worked out, I couldn't put on the muscle. And the minute I went on testosterone, like I was, because muscle memory exists, right? Went back to the gym. It came back.

I don't have to work out half as hard. And I got all my muscle back. Like, you do need testosterone for, to build muscle. You do. Yeah, you absolutely do. You know, there are other things that are also going down with age, like growth hormone, for instance, is going down. And that's something else that's really important for building muscle.

So that's something that we check in. in the office as well. We may give you some medications or peptides to increase growth hormone, especially as you get older, especially for women who are trying to build muscle because it's, it is hard to build it if you don't have testosterone or growth hormone as you get after 40. Oh, can you talk a little bit about the growth hormones that you were just talking about? So we usually will do peptides like Tessimorellon or CJC 1295, Ipermerelline. You can also do actual growth hormone in small doses, but basically just trying to get your own growth hormone or increased growth hormone to that kind of middle to upper end of the normal reference range for you.

And, you know, it's one of those hormones that goes down with age for men and women. But it's so important for muscle building. It's also important for sleep and joint health and, you know, like all kinds of things across the body. So we'll oftentimes look at that as one of the hormones that we're trying to optimize. Oh, wow. And what about GLP-1s? I'm sure you believe in those, right? I think that I'm like skinny so I don't need them, but I think they're great.

They are great. They're great for people to lose weight, but they're also great. I do think that this idea of microdosing is probably a legitimate idea. We do some of that as well for everything from like cardiovascular health to probably brain health and kidney health and just inflammation, like all that kind of stuff. So, okay, so like someone like me, I have, I have Life RXMD as my sponsor right now. They're like, oh, we'll give you some, you know, and I'm like, oh, I don't need it. I'm super skinny. But I have been all like the people I follow on Instagram where people like you, like I love like what you're into.

You know, I'm always looking for anti-aging health stuff. I'm very into health and fitness. So I was like maybe I could, like, could I microdose it as like you don't want to lose the weight, but it just helps in other ways? Yeah, I mean, I think it's, it's, we don't know is the short answer. Yeah. I've definitely tried it. I'm pretty thin myself.

Okay. I don't want to lose weight. I don't need to lose weight, but I've tried just to see if it helps with, you know, making sure, I don't have high blood sugar, but, you know, keeping blood sugar really low is important, obviously, and keeping inflammatory with markers low. So I've experimented with myself and patients in that low dose range. you just want to make sure you're not losing weight or losing, you know, losing muscle, which you wouldn't lose unless you were losing a lot of weight.

Yeah. And with the micro, because, you know, I think the biggest, my sister finally went on it and she lost a lot of weight, but she was very hesitant to do it for like a year because she was afraid of like not feeling good. And because you do hear of people taking them. This is for weight loss, right? They're not microdosing it and people getting really sick. Like, what's the deal with that? Yeah.

I mean, it's actually not uncommon to get pretty nausea when you're taking those with drugs. I mean, we give people nausea medicine with their medicine, with their GLP ones when they first start, because some people get super sick. And the problem is that, you know, it's an injection and it lasts like a week. And so if you're sick, you're sick for like a week until it goes away. And it can be pretty debilitating. So that's how we start low and we go slow, but still, it's still a risk. It can still happen.

Right. And like, is it something that happens to most people or it's like a small portion of people or you just never know? it's not most people it's probably less than 25% but certainly some people are pretty severe and they're actually like vomiting throughout the day some people are just so nauseated they just don't want to eat and then some people are just kind of a mild low grade thing right and besides losing weight like isn't lose it like because i think a lot of people like oh it's just you're just you know you're doing this to look good to lose weight but like isn't it like you're losing weight and now you're going to be healthier right like you said it's helping with all these other things as well it is i mean every single day there's like a new paper that comes out that shows that us like a new indication for GLP1s. Like it helps with polycytic ovarian syndrome. It helps with mass cell dysfunction. It helps with like liver and kidney and brain and all these things. So we're finding new reasons. But essentially it's reducing blood sugar. It's reducing inflammation. It's reducing your weight if you take enough. So there's multiple indications for those drugs at this point. Right. And so for with like low libido for guys or you know, any kind of issues like that,

I mean, is it always a testosterone thing? No, right? No. Yeah. No. Yeah. No. It's, It's multifactorial, just like anything else. You know, it could be that your marriage is not going very well. Like, you don't like your partner. You know, it could be your depressed. It could, you know, there's a number of things that cause low libido. Testosterone is certainly a piece of it. One thing I always tell guys is if you're not waking up anymore with morning erections,

then that's a good sign that there's something going on with either your testosterone or blood flow to your penis. So that's a good way to know that this is like a physiological problem, not just a psychological problem. This is something that's happening in your body. not just in your head. So that's a good reason to get checked. But if it is a testosterone issue and you give a guy some testosterone, like, how long, like, does it take? Because sometimes, like, they use that term I've heard many times. It's like, oh, it's got to get dialed in. You know, sometimes certain things, you know, you've got to be on it for a while to get the effects. But, like, when a guy takes testosterone, is it kind of like an immediate thing for him? Or how long

does it do this take for them to get dialed into it? It's usually within the first two months or so that guys will feel a difference. And oftentimes it's pretty profound. They'll just be like, oh my gosh, like, you know, the world is in color again. Like, I feel so good. Yeah. Yeah. But then sometimes it kind of hits a plateau. Like they'll, they'll feel great. And then they kind of feel like it stops working. It doesn't stop working, really, but it does have that feeling of like, oh, it's not as good as it used to be. And unfortunately, that's kind of what happens with, with testosterone in men. And I think also in women, but probably more in men. Oh, yeah. When I got the palettes, I was like crazy horny, like, you know, for a short time. And I kind of like,

like, oh, it's sad that I'll never get that way with my injections, you know, but I'm a lot more level, you know? Do you do like the O shot, the P shot, like that kind of stuff? We do them with stem cells and with exosomes instead of with PRP. So we've been, I've been doing them for about 10 years at my clinic here in Utah, and then we do them at our humanoc clinics as well. So we essentially just traded out the plate leveraged plasma, which is just from your blood with actual stem cells and growth factors, exosomes, things like that. Wow, you're a little ahead of your time, right? I mean, 10 years ago when you were doing this, you weren't like, you weren't one of many, right?

No, it was kind of a renegade thing back in the day. And especially when we started using like growth factors and X, it's like no one knew what an exosome was. I don't know what an exosome is. It's just like it's basically kind of like messenger bubbles of growth factors from stem cells. So it's kind of like the action arm of a stem cell. So we can, those are given separately. But essentially these are just all regenerative things. We're trying to get your own body to act.

like a more yet youthful version of itself. So we're just trying to trigger your own body to either repair, regenerate, act more young, et cetera. I have a woman who calls into my show who's keeping me posted on her O-shot experience, right? But she's not doing it with stem cells. She's doing just the regular shot. And she was telling me that she, you know, she's got to go three times and that each time it gets a little bit better. Like with stem cells, is it the same thing? Stem cells tend to be stronger in general for just, you know, any application than PRP.

because PRP, you know, PRP has some growth factors. It comes from your own blood, from your platelets. Right. But usually you're giving, like if you're doing like a knee injection with PRP, you're doing like three injections to get the same effect that you might get from a single stem cell injection. So it depends on, you know, everyone's different and we, unfortunately, don't have a data, don't have much data on the sexual injections, even though I've done them for a long time.

But yeah, stem cells are going to be more stronger, but you still may need several of them. Right. You know, I'm going to have to ask you for recommendations of doctors in New York City that do that because, you know, I don't, I, I want to try the O shot, you know, but she told me the second time she got it, it really hurt. She said the first time she didn't feel a thing, second time it really hurt. Do they numb you before they put that in? We, yeah, we do numb. We use numbing cream where some people will use injections, but sometimes, you know, we inject directly into the clitoris, which is obviously what, 10,000-something nerve-in things in there. So even though we do numb it,

it's a little painful. I had only done one time, and it was at a training exercise where other doctors were training. It's like five doctors all training, watching the procedure being done on me. And they didn't numb me first. And so it was completely without the anesthesia. And they injected me. And I thought I was going to die. It was the most painful thing.

But it lasts a couple of seconds and it goes away. But it was not good. Yeah, that's bad. But did it help your, like, did you see immediate results? And what were the benefits of getting the O shot? This was like, I mean, this was like 15 years ago. I feel like I had some improvements. I didn't think at the time it was as profound as I was hoping it would be. But, but I certainly, you know, I would say with women when I do these procedures, probably 75% of them have pretty good improvements in like sensation, you know, easier to orgasm, pleasure, things like that. I actually really love these procedures though for men with the injections into the penis, like the pea shot, but with stem cells. Yeah. Because I feel like, I feel like at least 85% of men who have those, like they love them.

And they'll call me and be like, oh my gosh, this is the best thing. They're so excited. They'll tell their friends. Their friends will come in. So I think it works better for some reason. And men, I think women are just more complicated, you know. Yeah, there's a lot more going on down there, right? There is.

So what does a guy expect if he's getting the P shot? Like, I mean, it's a needle right into what part? It's, yeah, it's a needle or a couple of, a couple of, a couple of injections into, kind of like into the shaft, like about 10 o'clock, two o'clock position, just goes in about a centimeter. Right. And small needle, it's actually less painful than you'd think. It's not as big a deal as you'd imagine.

But we're essentially just injecting into the tubes there called the corpora cavernosa, are the tubes that fill with blood when you have an erection. So we inject the stem cells in, like one, I do one on each side and put a little tourniquet at the base, keep them there for a while. And that's it. It's super simple, super easy. and but people, I mean, men love that procedure. Right. And what is that good for? Like, what kind of guys are, do you say, oh, you know what?

You should get a P shot. Like, this is what would really help you. It's good for either men who have kind of erectile dysfunction or what I call erectile less function. Like, they're just like, you know, they're in their late 40s, 30s, 40s, and things aren't just working as well as they used to. Yeah. Even if they do work, a little harder to get erections. So it just makes it a little easier to get erections, keep erections. sensitivity can be improved as well. And, you know, it just kind of generally helps turn back the clock a little bit. Right.

And do you believe, like, you know, Viagra for women is now out there, right? Like, and it's been out for guys for a really long time. Do you prescribe stuff like that to your people? Do you believe in that or do you or into other things? I actually think that estrogen, just vaginal estrogen, is kind of like women's Viagra. Like, it works very similarly to Viagra for women. women by increasing blood flow. And you actually can give women Viagra, actual Viagra also. Like if the problem is blood flow, Viagra works great. It's just that oftentimes the problem

isn't blood flow. So if it's not, if it's anything else, you know, if it's, if it's, you don't like your partner or you're stressed or, you know, other things like that, then it's not going to help. But estrogen, vaginal estrogen is my go-to. And then I'll give Viagra if I need it. I think the other drugs like Adi and things like that are, I haven't been as impressed with those as I, as I would like to be. Right. And for the work. Women that didn't do the vaginal estrogen through perimenopause and menopause. And she has that thin skin. She's totally dry.

You know, she's aged down there. Like, there's lasers and stuff out there now, right? Or do you have, like, or do you do some stem stella stuff to deal with that? Those issues when they're, you know, beyond using the cream to help them? So the good news is there is no beyond using the cream. Oh, okay. You can use the cream when you're 80. My doctor told me that.

No, there's no. The vaginal estrogen, 70-year-old, 80-year-old. year old. We give it to them to, and it can, you can, over a few months, you can actually totally revitalize that tissue. Wow, that's amazing. Yeah, you got to get it. Yeah. I mean, I felt like just doing all my hormones, like, fixed it and it was only, it wasn't really that bad for me because I was in it, in it through perimenopause. I just wasn't optimized, so I was doing very low dose at that time, you know, which worked. I tell people, like, if you're petrified of hormones, like, I did a very low dose through perimenopause and it just took the

edge off. I had a baby when I was way older, so I was like needed hormones or I, you know, I could, I would have been the worst mom on the planet. And it just made me like a normal person. You know what I mean? I had to sleep through the night. I had to have patients. I was 46 and I've been on them ever since. And I felt like once I got into menopause, it is easier to dose in menopause, right? Like, could you explain that? Because I remember my doctor when I was in perimenopause was like, it's very hard to get the right concoction. She was actually like a lot of women go on the pill. And that will totally like level you out. But I didn't even like, like, the pill when I was young. I don't like it at all. So I was like, that's not an thing for me.

So I just stuck to the hormones. But how do you work with people in perimenop? Because it's a little harder, right? Because you're just up and down, right? Yeah. Yeah. Well, because estrogen is literally going up and down like crazy. Like you just never know. You don't have the normal cycles like you have, you know, during the pre-minopause. So usually we'll start with progesterone. And that's the first hormone we give. And that kind of calms things down a little bit, and then as you get closer to menopause, we'll start adding estrogen. But it is much more difficult in pari menopause. Once you hit menopause, you know, you don't really have any hormones anymore. And so we just, we give them back to you. We get and find an even level and you people are,

you know, pretty easy, happy. Yeah. And what could change? Like recently I just did my blood work and I do it every three months. And it was like, like, this was actually a little bit longer. And it was very different. Like my progesterone had tanked. And I'm like all things the same. Yet my hormones are so different. And I think that's one of the reasons why you want to always continue to test, because other things can affect your hormones, right? It doesn't mean just because you're taking them, you're going to stay at the same level. Stress, cortisol, like, what are the things that could have tanked my hormones, even though I'm on the same levels, doing the same thing every day? Yeah, I mean, certainly stress can affect them. Thyroid of function can affect them. You know, potentially things like

endocrine disruptors and the environment can protect them, could affect them. But also just maybe you check them on a different time of day, like maybe, you know, check them a few hours. later than you did before because that's going to obviously affect your blood levels depending on when you take the hormone. So time of day, like taking the hormone the same time of day, doing your lab test the same time of day, that's going to make a big difference because your blood levels of hormones will change quite a bit throughout the day based on when you take the hormones. Oh, you're kidding. So that is important. Yeah, especially for progesterone. You take it at night usually. And by the time you take it in the morning, like your blood levels are almost going to be down to zero, which is okay.

it just means that it's just it's coming down from the evening before right what other kinds of things do you believe in for sexual wellness for people when they're you know in their 40s and 50s and beyond one of my other favorite tools that I use for sexual sexual health is the shockwave therapy do you know about that no you heard about shockwave so it's uh it's basically a machine that just delivers these high intensity sound waves or like pressure waves into the tissue and it's used a lot for like treating musculoskeletal pain, like, you know, shoulder injuries or whatever. But in the last 10 years, it's been studied and well used for, I call this function for men. And it is amazing. It's amazing. If you are a guy in your 30s or 40s or 50s or 60s who has some like less function, shockwave

therapy, my favorite device is called softwave. I don't have it, you know, I don't really have a relationship with them, but they have, you do a series of sessions, like six sessions over maybe three weeks, just in a doctor's office, 30 minutes. And it's essentially, it's signaling to your body, to kind of repair and revitalize that area without actually injuring it. And so it's well proven for men. And now we're starting to use it on women also for both pelvic pain, as well as just to try to improve like blood flow and tissue health and things like that for sexual health.

Oh, that's super interesting. And is it typically like longevity anti-aging centers or doctors that are, you know, going to be in the know and are going to be offering these kinds of things? I mean, has it gotten to like urologist office? Yeah. Urologists, I have several urology friends who now have the softwave machine or using it for men and even some for women. But again, I've been doing it for about 10 years. And back then, it was mostly just like the longevity clinics or the hormone clinics or people like that.

You know, the kind of fringy people who were doing it. But now it's actually become much more common. Yeah. I mean, I use a telehealth medicine doctor because, you know, back in the day when I started, it was very hard to find any doctor that talk to women who have menopause. like every gynaecologist out there, they're talking to women who are having babies. And by the time you're menopause, they can't help you. And everything is out of pocket for some reason. Once you get into perimen, every doctor that specializes in it, no one takes your insurance. Do you see any of that changing?

Like, why is it that way? You know, doctors, I think it is getting better. Yeah. Doctors learn, like, they only spend about an hour total in medical school learning about, at least, you know, even now about paraminopause and menopause and hormones. And so people are just, there's no, even got college, like no one is educated on this currently unless they go out and get educated. Like, I had to go out and educate myself with courses and programs and, you know, fellowship programs and things. But no one else, like people, it's not being taught in schools currently, although I think it is changing. I think people are getting more wise to it. Yeah, thank God. Yeah. Yeah. I want to get back to like when you said you were like in your 30s. You're like, what things did you do then that

changed your game? You know, the biggest thing I did is I left my job in the ER and I I started sleeping a normal schedule. Major. Like I, I, I was sleeping before that. I was sleeping, you know, three or four hours at a time. I'm getting up at three in the morning, which is not a time to get up in the morning. And just, I didn't have the ability to do anything else with my job and my kids. And when I left the ER, I started sleeping, you know, seven or eight hours at a time

at normal schedule. It was amazing. Like, I lost weight. Like, I, like, my skin cleared up. I have pictures of me from back when I was in the ER and I was just, like, kind of puffy. Yeah. Like, I just like a different person. It's amazing how different.

And I also ended up getting off, I was also getting off birth control pills, so they had just had my kids. And I had been on birth control pills for like 15 years. And I do think that getting off birth control pills made a big difference too. Like it made it much easier to like lose weight and not be inflamed looking and things like that. Oh yeah. That's one of the first things that happen to women when they go on birth control pills, right? I mean, they gain a little way. Yeah. Yeah. It's very common. And now that I know how bad those kind of synthetic progestins are long term. I think they're fine for like short term use, but like long term use. I have twin daughters who are 17 and I've been talking to them. They don't want to hear it from me, but I'm like, girls, let's talk about birth control pills. And they're like, no, mom, we don't want to talk to you. But I don't want them to get on if I can avoid it, at least for not a long time. Yeah, I always felt that way. And I, you know, I'm not a medical professional so I could just be unprofessional. And it's to say, like, I always feel like the same women who took, you know, birth control pills all their life are like horrified by hormone replacement therapy. I'm like, I think it's like the opposite. Like, I was always horrified by birth control. I would never. take it. It's so obviously like messed up what you're doing to your body and women did it for years and yet so many of the same women are horrified by hormones, but they don't understand they're taking

hormones. Isn't that what birth control pills are? Yeah, they're taking, they're taking synthetic hormones that are four times or five times stronger than the biodinical hormones that we give in perimenopause. And so, I mean, yeah, I think it's all a matter of like the, you know, it's doctors are taught that birth control is great. Yeah. They learn about it in school. Like it's, it's publicized. These are really great. And again, I don't, I'm not, I do think there's a place for birth control pills. I think that they're, I'm glad that we haven't. I'm glad that they're an option. But I just don't, I don't, I wouldn't choose that for myself again, but I am certainly happy that it's out there for people who, who need it, who don't have other options. But yeah,

I mean, it's, I mean, I think that hormone replacement therapy or HOT, as I call it, is, is much safer, much lower doses, much more in keeping with what your body really wants. Yeah. Than birth control pills, probably. Well, could I just ask you? Like, what will, like, what are, what are your conversation going to be for your 17-year-olds? If you don't really, like, buy into the whole birth control pills, what would you say is, like, the better option if there is one? I mean, I think probably I would recommend, like, an IUD, like a morana. Like, a morana is a synthetic progestim, but it just stays in your uterus.

It doesn't go, like, system-wide. You know, certainly there are other great things, like diaphragms can work really well. You know, obviously condoms. But those are a little bit more work, I think, like, remember? And, like, I don't want them to have to, like, be thinking all the time. cycle sinking even, you know, just watching your cycle actually works great, but like who's going to track their cycle every single day if you're an 18 year old, right? Like who's going to be like mapping out their cycle? No, you don't want to be a grandma just yet, maybe. I don't think so.

Right. Right. Not yet. So they know like none of that stuff. I mean, you will try to get them to do other things besides the pill. I will. I mean, again, you know, I talk about sex all the time and I just speak unscages about it. But my kids don't really want to talk to me about it. But they know I'm here. They know I'm here and ready to discuss it with them whenever they are ready to discuss it. But yeah, I'll try to get them to steer away from birth control if it's a, you know, if they will. Yeah. You did say you have a bunch of different clinics.

Where are your clinics located? So I have a clinic here in Salt Lake City called By Restoration. And then I have a franchise of clinics called Humanaut Health. We just opened one in Austin and now Florida are two first locations and we'll be going. We have a few more in the next year. We'll be opening. I'm the chief medical officer of that. So I don't see patients there, but I'm in charge of all the protocols and overseeing the other doctors and mid-levels.

Yeah, that's amazing. Would you have ever thought when you were in the ER that this is where you'd wind up so many years later? I had no idea. I left the ER without really a plan. And at that time, like you mentioned, like when you were doing all this back in the day, like people thought, people, my fellow ER doctor friends thought I was crazy. I'm like, you're not even a doctor anymore. You're just like a, you're just, like, just called me all kinds of names. They were so mean.

and now you see tons of doctors coming from traditional medicine trying to move over to this kind of integrative or longevity medicine because they see that it's actually really, it's a good medicine, it's important. So it's interesting how perceptions change over time. Yeah, thank God. And so you went, so you like tried all these things and then you were so impressed with it, you decided to go to further schooling. Is that what happened? Yeah, I started learning actually about hormones first. I learned about estrogen and progesterone and, you know, menopause and antipause. And I was just like, why did I not know this stuff? And so I ended. up quitting my job in the ER and I opened a clinic in Portland, Oregon. And it was just me. Like,

I had no help. I had no nurse. I had no front desk. It was me. Like, I would do all the things myself. Oh my God. And it was a crazy learning experience and it was fun. And then eventually I made my way to Utah, which is where I live now and was able to open other clinics or join clinics that had been opened and kind of continue. And did you start like just offering like hormone replacement, like bioidentical hormone replacement therapy and then grew to do all this other stuff as it came to be over time? Yeah, yeah, so I kind of, yeah, I learned about hormones first and started that. And then, yeah, there's so much to learn. Like, you're never going to learn at all. But then I became really interested in regenerative medicine. At the time, it was PRP, just blood, just platelets. And then I ended up becoming interested in stem cells. And that's, that's part of why I moved to Utah. One of my mentors is here in Utah. He'd been doing stem cells for joints and back, Harry Adelson for, for like years. And he was one of the first ones in the country to do it. And so I just kind of harassed him until he, until he brought me under his wing and taught me, taught me, everything he knows. Yeah, that's becoming more and more popular. I mean, people have had to travel for that, but now that's also catching on. Yeah, yeah. That's, and it's, I mean, these, these cells work

great. I mean, not for everyone. It's not a panacea, but for a lot of, you know, joint problems, neck problems, back problems, that there are, luckily, we can, we can do that now in the U.S. And, and so, you know, we're able to treat a lot of people at our various clinics. We all, we do themselves at all of them. Right. But question, quick question, can, are these things ever covered by insurance or all this kind of stuff out of pocket? It's mostly out of pocket at this point. Yeah. It's unfortunate that it's like expensive. It's cost a lot of money to be healthy. Even the food is more expensive. It's kind of backwards, right? It's like, I know. It is, it is unfortunate. I'm hoping that, you know, we're kind of, I tell people, the rich people are kind of the

guinea pigs. But some of this stuff. Like a lot of this is not proven. Like, we're actually still figuring it out, like peptides not proven, you know, even stem cells, not proven necessarily in some cases. So rich people are the guinea pigs. They're paying to be guinea pigs. They're paying to be pigs. And my hope is that we prove what works and then we can get the price down and make it available to other people. Yeah, exactly. I mean, you would think, though, that like, eventually at some point, they would have it covered by insurance because they'd have less like disease later on. You know, somehow, bottom line, I think they would save money if, like, that kind of stuff was covered early. And then you're not dealing with the big things that happen if you don't do it

later. Last question, this is just like out of sequence. But like, could you just explain the difference between BHRT and HRT? I mean, bioidentical is the same as body identical. People use both terms. And it just means that the hormone that you're giving matches the chemical structure of the hormone that's in your body. So estradial is the hormone that you make, or women make, then make. And so when we give you back estrogen, we want to give you back estradiol.

And it can be a pharmaceutical product or it can be compounded. It can be either one. It's just not the same as like a synthetic hormone, which is a different structure. Like it's made, you know, like estrogen's made from horses urine. It doesn't look like estrogen. So it's, you know, bioidentical is, it can, it just means it's the same as what your body makes. Right. And like, because I had a friend recently went to a doctor and she gave her some sort of weird patch

and I was just like, oh my God, like what are you doing? Like this is like all synthetic stuff, right? Like that kind of stuff is still out there, correct? Well, the patches, most of the patches that are out now are bioidentical. No, this was like a combination patch. Oh, yeah, it can't, it certainly could have had a progestin in it. Yes. So, you know, there are patches that are bi identical.

You just want to make sure the names you're looking for are just estradial and progesterone. Yeah. That's it. Yeah, I did an estrogen patch. You know, I did the estrogen patches. I love them. You know, now I just do everything injections and, you know, but I really like the patch. And the good news is, and I think some people don't understand this is though, like

the progesterone and my estradiol when I did the patches, we're covered by insurance. My, my progesterone is still covered by insurance. That's always covered. Yeah. Yeah, you can get, I mean, you can get these biothynical hormones from like your normal Walgreen, CVS. like you can you know insurance usually covers them uh you don't have to go to like an expensive kind of compounding pharmacy unless you have some kind of you know die die sensitivities or things like that so

we should be prescribing these things more than we are yeah i do my injections i pay out of pocket but they're very cheap like i said if i if i consider how long they last and what i pay for a bottle but when i did the ashtadile patch and the progester and it cost me 30 bucks a month you know $15 each one and so how much is it around for guys their testosterone Oh, it's super inexpensive. A vial of testosterone, even if it's not covered by insurance, you could get it for like, $60, $60 or less sometimes. And it, you know, it may last you a month or two depending on what your dose is.

So it's, it's, these are very inexpensive. Testosterone's very inexpensive. Yeah, no, I know. It's like I said, even for me, my injections are less expensive. And honestly, with the with the pellets, they were going to be way more expensive because I would have had to do them every two months. And I'm just like injections are actually way cheaper. not covered by insurance.

But the good news is they have these ones for women that are covered. Okay, so Amy, give a shout out to you. I know that you're big on Instagram, right? Just to help people where they could find you to get more information. I'm jealous I don't live in Idaho or near you to be able to go to your clinic and get this cool stuff. But I'll put your website. I'll put your website in the description.

Okay, yeah, Dr. Amy B. Kellyn is on, I'm on Instagram and Facebook and all those things YouTube. And then Dr. Amy Killen.com is my website. and I have links on there to all my different clinics and companies and things like that. Where is your one in Florida? It is in Palm Beach Garden, Florida. We just opened in Florida. Oh, good.

So, you know, maybe I'll visit when I go. I go yearly to Jupiter, and that's right near there, right? Oh, good. Yeah, I don't know Florida very well, but yeah, come visit. Yeah, yeah, yeah, there you go. All right, awesome. Thanks so much for calling in, Amy. This was super informative.

It was going to be up on Saturday, okay? Awesome. Thank you. Thanks, Amy. Bye-bye. Okay, I just want to tell you before you go. that my book, it's called Strictly Anonymous Confession, Secret Sex Lives of Total Strangers, is now available not only in paperback and e-book, but you can pre-order the audiobook. It's still not

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