Strictly Anonymous Confessions - 1247 – Jeff and Michelle Had an Affair and Now They’re Having Threesomes and Swinging Together

Episode Date: October 13, 2025

Jeff and Michelle had an affair and now they’re having threesomes and swinging together and they called in to talk all about it. Tune in to hear all the details including how they met during their affair, why they both cheated on their spouses, how their marriages ended and how they wound up together, when Jeff realized he was into compersion and how he brought it up, how that led to them sharing their fantasies, Michelle’s naughty hookup with a content creator and exactly what went down between all three of them, how Jeff initially felt jealous and weirded out by her hooking up with other guys and how he got past it, the next guy they had a threesome with and exactly what went down, the threesome with another guy they had that they filmed and what went down, why Jeff enjoys watching their naughty videos more than Michelle, their swinger club experience in Europe including Michelle’s hookup with a woman and what went down there, plus a whole lot more. **To see HOT pics of JEFF & MICHELLE plus my other guests  + hear anonymous confessions + get all the episodes early and AD FREE, join my Patreon! It's only $7 a month and you can cancel at any time. You can sign up here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.patreon.com/StrictlyAnonymousPodcast⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and when you join, I'll throw in a complimentary link to my private Discord! MY BOOK IS NOW OUT FOR PRE-ORDER!!!! Strictly Anonymous Confessions: Secret Sex Lives of Total Strangers. A bunch of short, super sexy, TRUE stories. GET YOUR COPY NOW: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://amzn.to/4i7hBCd⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠   To join SDC and get a FREE Trial! click here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.sdc.com/?ref=37712⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ or go to SDC.com and use my code 37712   Want to be on the show? Email me at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠[e-mail]⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ or go to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://www.strictlyanonymouspodcast.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and click on "Be on the Show" Have something quick you want to confess while remaining anonymous? Call the CONFESSIONS hotline at 347-420-3579. You can call 24/7. All voices are changed.   Sponsors:  ⁠http://loadboost.com⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ To get 10% off LOAD Boost by VB Health use code: STRICTLY ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://butterwellness.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Use the code “STRICTLY” at checkout for 20% off your entire order ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://uberlube.com/discount/Strictly⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Use code: STRICTLY for 10% off Uberlube aka the BEST Lube EVER ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bluechew.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Get your first month of the new Blewchew Max FREE! use code: STRICTLYANON ⁠⁠https://beducate.me/pd2532-anonymous⁠⁠⁠  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Use code: ANONYMOUS to get 50% off your yearly pass plus get a 14-day money-back guarantee ⁠⁠⁠https://brooklynbedding.com⁠⁠⁠⁠ Use my promo code STRICTLY at checkout to get 30% off sitewide To get $15 OFF your female oxytocin arousal tablets and more, use code STRICTLY here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://shamelesscare.sjv.io/xLQ3Jv⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow me! Instagram ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/strictanonymous/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Twitter ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://twitter.com/strictanonymous?lang=en⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Website: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://www.strictlyanonymouspodcast.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

You could email me from a phony email, call me from a phony number. I just want to hear your true life story. So if you have an interesting, naughty true life story that you want to tell, that you want to talk about on my show, send me an email, strictly anonymous podcast. Atjumel.com. Or go to my website, strictly anonymouspodcast.com and click on be on the show. If you have a naughty confession that you want to leave on my confessions hotline, you could call the confessions hotline [phone].

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I have thousands of people on there. And I throw that access in complimentary to anyone who joins my Patreon as well as anyone who buys my book. Now my book was supposed to come out on October 14th, but the date was pushed. I got my big box of books in recently, and I was horrified. They were printed all wrong. There was a lot of mistakes made. It was a total F up mistake.

You know, mistakes happen, shit happen. Thank God my publisher is like, okay, we're going to reprint all these, and we changed the date. It is now coming out in October, December, December 2nd. I'm happy because I didn't want you to get the bad printed books. I saw them. They were horrifying to me. So you still have time to pre-order my book. It's also going to be available.

in an e-book format. It's on Amazon right now. There'll also be an audiobook available when it's closer to the date that it comes out. If you purchase any of those options as well as sign up for my Patreon, you will get access to my private Discord. It is private. You can't get into it any other way. I give complimentary access to people who do these kinds of things or listeners of my show because that's the way I vet everybody in there and create a great community. My Discord is fun of cool fucking people like you who listen to my show. So if you want to get access to my Discord, do any of the things I just said. All the links are in the description. If you want to sign up for the best adult website, it is SDC. I love SDC. I'm not on there, but like every one of my guests

who talk about meeting people and hooking up and learning about the lifestyle, they started at SDC. It is the world's largest adult website. What's great about SEC, it's just a place where you can meet people. It's a place where you could also learn about all the shit in your area. Or if you want to play on vacation, you can learn about what's going. on over there. I have a free trial that I could offer my listeners. All you got to do is use code 37712 on SDC.com or just go to the description and click on the link. Okay, today I have on Jeff and Michelle. I love Jeff and Michelle's story. It's super interesting. They're kind of new newbies, but they've done a lot. You know, once they crossed the line, they started trying all different things. They talk about how they met,

which was kind of scandalous. They were both having affairs on their partners. We talk a little bit about that in the beginning because I thought that was super interesting how they met. And then they talk about how they went from being a couple and they had great sex right from the beginning, you know, to sort of opening things up. They talk about their first experience with someone in a guy in Vegas that involved a massage and it was super hot and he got to watch. And then, you know, they talk about all their other experiences, a bunch of MFM three sums. There was a one time where they went to a swingers club or a sex club when they were traveling and she kind of hooked up with a girl. They talk about that experience. They talk about going on SDC and meeting guys. They talk

about those experiences. But what is a very interesting part of this episode to me was that, you know, Jeff, right from the get-go did have like some, like, did wind up having some sleepless nights after their first two experiences where he was kind of spinning and not feeling right about the situation or what happened even though he was very turned on. by it. And I thought that was super interesting because not only did he talk about that that happened, he talked about what he did to sort of get through it and talk and he talked about why they were able to move on and continue doing it even though he had these weird feelings about it. And like I said, that was a very interesting part because I think it's a very human being of him to have had those

feelings. And you know, it's interesting how he dealt with them and how he was able to work through them. You're going to get that information on this episode. They're a super hot couple. I have anonymous picked of them over on my Patreon. You're going to love their story. So I'm going to get right to it and be right back on with Jeff and Michelle. Hey, Jeff and Michelle, welcome back. Welcome back. Welcome to the strictly anonymous podcast. You guys have never been on my show. But here you are and I have the both of you on. You guys are married, right? Yes. And you are a couple that just opened up your relationship. You've had a couple like really super hot MFF threesomes. You've been to some clubs, right? Is that true?

Swinger clubs? Yeah. I love a new newbie story, right? Like a couple that maybe just kind of made that transition because making the transition, I think, is always a really interesting part of the story and you remember it more because it just happened, right? Like, how long have you guys, like, crossed the line? Like, how long has it been since your first experience? About a year, I suppose about a year and a half sort of, something like that. But yeah, it's been a handful experiences. Yeah, yeah, no, I know that. I know. Yeah, but I want to go back a little bit before a year and a half.

First of all, you guys, like, how long have you been together married, that kind of good stuff? Like where you're at now? Total. This is a fun story, but I'm going to let Jeff tell it. No, you tell it, Michelle. Why do you want him to sell it? I don't know. Well, I think part of it, well, he's got a very interesting story to tell here, too, about his first marriage.

And so I was going to let him start, and I'm happy to jump in. Oh, okay. He has a little bit more interesting backstory is what you're saying. Well, I guess you both do. But let him start and then I'll jump this. Okay. Jeff, she's deferring to you. Well, we've, I think we've been together for about eight years, it's around two for, it's around two. And sexless marriage for me, and I had lots of affairs during that time. And one of which was actually, I was at a conference with a colleague.

who we were pretty good friends, and we had a threesome, which at the time, I don't think I acknowledged it as a threesome. It was he and I with the woman. Was it with another girl? It was two females. Okay. No, no, it was he and I. We were early 30s, and she was in probably mid-40s or something. Yeah, and it wasn't until I think I was sharing with Michelle, you know, it was in the confessional time of here's all my dirty laundry, You know, and she's like, oh, you've had a threesome. And I looked at it. I did?

And I didn't really appreciate that as a threesome. Anyway, but sexless marriage and lots of affairs. And Michelle and I, our relationship actually started during our, during our marriages. Yeah. And it kind of blew up our marriages. And, and, but as we were having a fair, it was clear that life could be a lot better, you know. With each other. And with each other.

And with each other. And it came with a price, you know, in terms of being ostracized from our community and losing a lot of friends and, you know, having to sort of rebuild things. Oh, my God. You both, wait, so you were both, do you guys live in the same town or anything? Like, how did you guys meet? Oh, yeah, we. Even closer. Yeah.

Oh, same block? In the same neighborhood. Well, not the same block, but we live in the same neighborhood. And so when it blew up, it was a pretty big explosion. Oh, yeah. Everyone was talking. Yeah. Wait, Michelle, now what was going on in your marriage that you were having an affair?

Yeah. So I had not, I had a pretty, like, very Christian upbringing and a pretty vanilla marriage. Unfortunately, my first husband had a lot of issues with alcoholism, and it just was just a pretty rough place to live. And so, you know, I guess instead of really facing it, I just found comfort elsewhere and ended up really not so much. our relationship really actually didn't start as a sexual relationship. It started as a friendship for, you know, quite a long time. And then it migrated into a sexual, a sexual relationship. And so I think it's, like, we have this very deep intimacy with each other outside of the bedroom, which led to just this incredible intimacy inside the bedroom. Yeah. And listen, a lot, that's the

reason why I like to get, like, or have cheating stories on my show, because a lot of time, I mean, because there's so many different, like, variations of it and varieties and, like, different kinds of cheaters. And a lot of times, I think, the cases that, like, it's not the intention. People don't go in intending. I mean, we know that Jeff was, like, cheating like crazy. But, like, you know, a lot of times people don't wind up intending to have an affair or cheat, you know, and it just kind of happens.

And, you know, I don't think that happens when everything's great at home. I think there's always when you look inside the other, the people's relationships or something wrong. That's when people are more likely to take the bait or for it to cross the line. Like, you weren't happy. Jeff, Michelle wasn't happy. You guys were besties. Like, was it through your kids or something? Like, how did you guys know each other as friends? Yes. For the through your kids. Yeah, well, I don't want to leave. I don't want to provide too many details. Of course, yeah. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, oh my God. So Michelle, did you know his wife really well. Like, was she a good friend of yours? I did know her. She wasn't like on my inner circle, but,

But yes, socialized and things like that. So it was a complete disaster. Oh, my God. And were your kids, like, of an age that they really understood what was going on, like teenage years or were they really little? That's my last personal question I'll ask. Yeah, they were younger. They were, like, preteen.

So, yeah. So, like elementary school type into early middle school. And so, yeah, so it was, it was, and depending on, you know, like, my, wasn't as vengeful as Jeff's X. And so, depending on, you know, what day of the week and which kid it was, I think they knew, some knew more, some knew less. And over time, of course, we've, we've had conversations with them. But it was a pretty, it was pretty rough. Of course. Yeah, at the beginning. But, you know, over time, things ultimately settled down. And we, I would say, so I think one of the myths is that we,

sort of left our marriages for each other. But after the affair came out, that actually wasn't the case. So Jeff actually moved out right away and he made the decision within a pretty short time period. And I don't need to speak for you. You can talk about this in a sec, but made a pretty faster decision than I did. And he decided he was going to separate and get divorced. And I actually stayed in my house and was trying to figure out if I was going to reconcile and was working through that. And so we actually had a period where we didn't talk to each other because I was trying to figure out my life and he had sort of figured out what direction his life was taking. Right. And, but ultimately, and I'm, he, because we weren't together at that time, he started

going on the apps and dating, which I was like, what? I was so upset about later when I found out, but I think it was pretty benign. But anyway, I ended up making a very big decision for me personally and given how I grew up in my family, that I was going to get divorced and move on. And once we did that, then, of course, he and I reconnected. And honestly, from that day forward, we've had a lot of things to work through, but we're just an incredible match for each other. And we've been able to experience a lot of new things in our life, including what we're talking about here today.

Okay, cool. Now, let me ask you this, Michelle, because some people would say, and I don't know if some of your girlfriends were like, oh, how could you trust him? He was cheating on his wife with all these women and he was cheating on you and now you're with him. Why don't you think he's going to do that to you? You know, I'm sure people thought that or maybe said that to you or I don't know even if that went through your head. Like how did you feel about his past?

Yeah. I mean, I think when we were first, I mean, first off, I think I was one of very few people that he actually talked to about his whole history. So like I knew everything from the beginning. And it was a very intimate and emotional relationship. Shared things with each other that we had never shared with anyone, hadn't shared with our first spouses. And we were truly coming to know each other. And I think probably understanding the why behind his cheating. The cheating.

And, you know, I mean, he truly was in a sexless marriage. And, you know, it's really sad, actually, when you think about it, that someone is sort of in this marriage. And I mean, honestly, like, he, he, he, he, did not want to get divorced blow up his family. Like he wanted to be in a relationship with a spouse that was sensual and loving and but he didn't have it. And so he was finding that elsewhere. And then I think part of our relationship is, hey, if we ever get to the point where, you know, we feel like you're wanting to be deceptive for some reason in this relationship, like, well, then we don't have to be in this relationship, right? Like, we're not stuck. Like, we were,

We were stuck. We were stuck in airports the first time. We're not stuck. We don't have to be with each other. We choose to be with each other. And then on top of it, you know, we can have these experiences together and have the freedom to, we haven't done that. But if we were to say, hey, we're going to allow each other to go do this, you know,

independently without each other there. You know, we haven't made that choice in a relationship. But we're choosing to be open and honest and talk about all of these things. Okay, guys. Let's talk about Jizz for a second. I don't need to be a guy to know that men love when they shoot a really big load. The bigger, the better, right? I'll admit it.

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Most people see results in a couple days and get full results in just two to three weeks. So for bigger, better tasting loads, go get yourself some load boost by VB Health. VB Health offers my listeners 10% off. All you got to do is go to loadboost.com and use my code strictly at checkout to get 10% off your order. That's loadboost.com. Use my code strictly to get 10% off your order. Or just go to the description, click on a link and use my code strictly. You know, we can have these experiences together and have the freedom to, we haven't done that.

But if we were to say, hey, we're going to allow each other to go do this, you know, independently without each other there. You know, we haven't made that choice in a relationship. But we're choosing to be open and honest and talk about all of these things. And then I think probably we do have a really good sex life. So hopefully that was the reason that Jeff went going. That was the reason. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Jeff, so you were like, it was very sexist like Ken.

And had you tried to get your wife into sex? I mean, this is my last question. Oh, yes. Yes. Yes. We got married early and I was, I tried everything under the stun. Yeah. For years.

And we ultimately went to therapy and all that, all the stuff and all the things. And it just did, you know, I was stuck and I didn't. Yeah. I should have just made the hard decision a lot sooner than I did. But I didn't. Did she ever like, I don't know, it's eight years later. Like, do you feel like, did she ever? kind of look at her part in things like and feel like oh god maybe i should have like figured out

how to be intimate or fix that our relationship in the bedroom or whatever it's like took some accountability and you're cheating or does she still just see herself as a victim and you were like the terrible person if she did she hasn't shared it with me i say the latter i mean i just think the truth is what do you expect a man to do or a woman if it's the opposite you know for and i talk to guys like you on the deal. When I used to do DL calls, it was typically a guy and a very monogamous guy. Most time these are like very monogamous guys that the last thing they want to do is they love their wives, but they're never getting sex. Nothing. You know, for many, many, many, many years, they try everything they can. What is the guy supposed to do? Like, and the obvious answer is he should then leave before you cheat.

You know what I mean? But like, you know, if it can only be that easy and it rarely is and people leave sloppily, like, you know, sloppy shit happens. And that's, that's, but that's what happens. It was like, Kathy, it was like, it was like once a month. Right. And it wasn't even like some big session. It was a 15, 20 minute once a month kind of deal. Right.

It was terrible. Here, this is for you just to shut you up. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, so let's forget about all that. So, you get, so, I mean, that's eight years ago. You guys are together.

You're happy. Sex is great with you guys from the beginning. Like, when do you start talking about maybe, you know, when you said, Jeff, like you're like, you brought up that threesome and everything. Like, when did those conversations start? Well, I think we had, we had pretty good communication in the bedroom. And I think part of that was, you know, things we like to do, you know, different, whatever, all the vanilla stuff. But then it kind of migrated into watching porn together at times. And I, and I think at some point, too, I started maybe a couple years ago, I started listening to your podcast. And I don't know how I got onto.

I think I was probably searching three sons or something like that. It's sort of like every guy's fantasy. But we started watching porn, and I realized at some point during this that one of your podcast, they put a name to what I was feeling called Comperion. Yes. And it sort of just kind of opened up my mind a little bit. But as we were watching porn, too, it became clear what her fantasies were and also kind of what my fantasies were.

and one of hers was, you know, was fantasy with a woman with two guys, you know, stroking their cocks and getting a massage and kind of just being a little bit of a pillow princess with two dudes. And also she had this, you know, discussion or fantasy about, you know, kind of being with a younger guy,

you know, kind of harkening back to her earlier years and maybe feeling like she missed out a little bit. And so that kind of played into some of the fantasies while we were, which, which elevated the sex and the orgasms just, you know, tenfold. Just by talking about it and thinking that this could be an option. Yeah, that's not what I always say. And, you know, that even just like putting it, and that's, you know, like you guys started watching porn and the conversation just came out of it.

It's like sort of by accident, right? Or like you don't really know, you don't go in knowing that this is going to change it right from the get-go, but it does even just talking about it. And I've heard that all the time. And one other thing is that I think during as we were having our affair and then came together, like, you know, she, she was a one and done kind of gal. And during our fair, we had, we, you know, we would be together sometimes and be together for hours. And she went from one, she'd have a couple.

And then she would just, she would have too many to count in the, hour or two that we were together and she started squirting and it was I mean and I really like this is a freakishly sexual being that I'm with and you know and I thought man I I feel like I'm pretty pretty good but there's there's there's untapped potential here yeah okay so who brings up like let's do this in real life because at this point you're just like sort of talking about how it's a fantasy or are you already discussing this as a reality no I think well so So it's for sure, Jeff, just to be clear. And I think I'm still, I'm still sort of, you know, coming into my sexuality, I guess, is the right way to say it.

Like, I love it when he talks about me and what kind of where I went from point A to point B because it really was pretty incredible. And I don't know. I mean, I just, I feel like I, my whole, my whole sexual identity changed in some ways because I untapped something. and then for sure he was definitely the one who started, I'm not really sure what the right word is, but just talking, you know, suggesting. Like, I don't know, maybe you, Jeff, you talk about this. But like, it was for sure you were,

I don't want to use the word pushing because that's not the right word, but just like, just opening up the dialogue. And but let me just ask you a quick question, Michelle, before we go to Jeff to answer that. Like, were you, did this whole change of, you getting in touch with this part of yourself happened because Jeff was like bringing this up and continuing to like, you know, sort of have these conversations with you. Is that what, was that what,

like, turned things around for you? No, I think that I was evolving sexually and I felt safe with him as a partner. Oh, that's interesting. Uh-huh. Yeah. Yeah. So I mean, I, I, I think honestly, when I look back, I'm not sure I ever really felt safe with my, with my first husband. And I didn't have a lot of sexual partners before that. Yeah. And so I think it just, I don't know, I was just, that was my life. And that's what I thought, you know, that's what, that's what your sex life is. And then I think through this just incredible emotional intimacy that we had.

And then truly just, I don't know, just having this time and ability to communicate with each other and explore, you know, each other's bodies and everything. I mean, it just completely opened up, you know, my mind, which opened up my body. And it was incredible. Yeah, no, I just literally taped a sex, like, coach relationship person yesterday. And he was going through all the things that a woman needs to be, like, really relax and have great sex. And like, I think the second one was safety. And he's like, it sounds like dumb.

They need to feel safe, you know, but he really explained it. And I love that you just said that that was like the, the, the key factor, one of the key factors of why you were able to be this way with him and not before, you know, it's super interesting. So, Jeff, you were the one that just kept talking about it, right? Bringing it up. Yes. Well, so, and I think the other side stories, we, you know, every once in a while, you'll hear friends who say they got a massage with a happy ending or something like that. And so I thought, well, this might be a good way that tap to get our feet wet a little bit. And so we traveled to Las Vegas.

We found a content creator and agreed to not actually film any content. And what I thought was going to be a great massage, it was far from that. And it turns out this guy had a really enormous dick and that sometimes he would have sex with people. And so we, anyway, we said, we were a little nervous about it. We said, well, let's go. We can always just say, no, thank you kind of thing. So we went. And I think the buildup to it, as many people on your show have said before, is, I think, almost as exciting as the event itself in terms of the anticipation, a little bit of nervousness and that sort of thing.

But so we did. He met us at a hotel, and he basically took charge from there in a very gentle way and was like a professional masseuse. And she got undressed on the bed. and he went to the bathroom and said he was going to change or something came out basically buck naked and he was and his dick, Kathy was so big. Oh my God. It was like a cocaine. And I think in hindsight, I wonder, maybe did he have fillers or something because it was almost grotesquely large. Right.

Yeah, I don't know. She was, so Michelle was on the bed, you know, like a massage started with her on her bed on her, she was face down, towel over. and he kind of just went to work in terms of just a real like a normal massage but he was naked and he was kind of dancing literally but you know kind of over the top of her being very delicate not leaning on her and that sort of thing but just moving around sort of you know like a ninja and and ultimately pulled the towel down and then he after probably 15 minutes had his hand and he would ask her beforehand to under her pelvis and I and I'm standing on the side. Yeah, he's watching.

And the reason why I'm telling the story, because she was kind of just oblivious, eyes closed like a massage and I'm the one that was kind of watching and it'll come up a little later. Yeah. And then, and I heard her first little moan and I thought, oh shit, it's, it's happening. Yeah. It's really going to work. And anyway, he, he made her orgasm just, you know, it didn't take for her.

long and then flipped her over, kept the massage going and, you know, massaging her breast and everything, and then got down the business probably 30 minutes into the massage. I mean, so it was a legitimate massage for, you know, basically 30 minutes, and she was completely relaxed. He had some music in the background, the lighting was perfect, and it was middle of the daytime, so she's tired, she's not tired, well hydrated, and then he started working, you know, on her pussy. And Kathy, this was the most incredible thing I've ever seen in my life. This guy was an absolute master. And I think over the next 20 minutes, he brought her to orgasm.

And these were like mind-blowing ones, probably, I don't know, 15 to 20 times in a span of about 20 minutes. It was incredible. So towards, I think the end of the session, she beckoned me over. and then so she gave me a blowjob while he was still working on her pussy and giving her rounds and rounds of orgasms

during this time then she gave me a blow job and it didn't take long and it was incredible and you know I had an orgasm and then I don't remember the exact string events but at some point then he asked if he wanted if she if he wanted her to insert himself in her I think is how we put it

And, you know, it was very delicate, though, you know. And she said, sure. And this guy puts on a condom and then, and fuck her. His Coke size. Yeah. Oh, my God. And it was incredible. And then, you know, and I think he acted like he finished, but I don't think he really did.

You know, it was, you know. Anyway, so, and at some point, too, he wanted to, I think he wanted to bail out because he said, Oh, are you, do you guys want to finish up here or something? Do you want to, you know, and I think Michelle said, she said, no, I'm good. Yeah, I mean, how many orgasms that you have? I mean, you're kind of like finally fulfilling this fantasy that you had to be with two guys, right? Michelle, so that must have been a totally hot experience for you. Yeah, I mean, it was, it was new.

That's for sure. And I think just brought me to a completely different level. I think in some ways, it was a, it was a, it was, a little bit scary because it was like, oh my gosh, this is incredible. And then I think, you know, afterward, you know, we had, I think we had sex twice, two or three times within the hour following this experience, which was incredibly hot. I mean, it was just, it was almost like a dream life state, honestly. Hey, guys, I'm going to tell you something that I don't think a lot of guys know that men, just like women,

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noticed the difference and he also felt like he was ejaculating further when he was using it during orgasm. So listen, after you hear that great review, why not go check out the butter perineum massager yourself? And then write in and tell me about your experience. And all

you got to do is go to Butter Wellness.com and use my code strictly for 20% off your whole order. So order up. That's Butter Wellness, B-U-T-T-E-R-W-E-L-L-N-E-S-S dot com. Use my code strictly at checkout for 20% off your whole order. So make sure to order up. Different level. I think in some ways it was a little bit scary because it was like, oh my gosh, this is incredible. And then I think, you know, after, Afterward, you know, we had, I think we had sex twice, two or three times within the hour following this experience, which was incredibly hot. I mean, it was just, it was almost like a dreamlike state, honestly. It was this very, very crazy experience we had.

And then we had this incredible sex. And then we had, you know, awesome night in Vegas, went to a concert. And then Jeff started having some, some issues. with sleeping. So that that kind of became a thing that followed this, that he was really, really having a hard time sleeping. Why do you think? Did one have something to do with the other?

Like, is that why you're bringing up? Did it have something to do with her like banging some other guy? Well, I mean, that's what I couldn't figure out because it was, there was this cognitive dissonance with at one time, in one sense, it was incredibly hot and sexy to think about. And we had incredible sex afterwards. Uh-huh. But it was almost like a PTSD.

I was thinking about it. I would sleep for two to three hours and wake up and I couldn't get back to sleep. And I would start thinking about it and all the crazy emotions that go into it. Oh, I love this. I don't feel like I've heard this kind of. No, but I mean, I bet you maybe other guys have these feelings too, but they never put it in words to me. But that's like super interesting.

And so like when you would wake up in your mind would be racing, so the thoughts were all kinds of things like jealousy. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. And normal, I would think. How, how, you know, in my mind, I thought I've never seen her experience anything like this.

Yeah. And I thought I was sort of the guy. I thought I was the guy that could provide her and provided her, you know, all these sexual, you know, these multiple orgasmic sessions that we had had. Yeah. That was the, I thought that was the ultimate, right? Yeah. And then, oh, no. You know, the master show.

more. Yeah, there's more. Yes, I'm total stranger could come in and do the same thing. Yeah, right. Yeah, exactly. And so it's, I think it's a, it's a sort of hit to blow to the ego probably. Yeah. So there's jealousy and all sorts of things. And that happens. Yeah, this went on. Yeah, it went on three or four nights. Yeah. And I'm, and here I am like sleeping like a baby. Yeah. Oh my God, hilarious. Now, are you telling her during these nights, like when you wake up, the next day, like, oh, my God, this is what's going on. Are you keeping it to yourself? No, I would talk to her. And I think at some point, too, it became a little bit of a rub because it was sort of like, hey, you wanted this.

Yeah, it could be confusing. You know, I agreed to it. And, you know, maybe we shouldn't do this again. Yeah, like, maybe you're, I mean, I'm not trying to say, like, maybe you're not ready. But I was like, maybe you're not, like, maybe emotionally, this isn't the right thing for a relationship at this time. Like, you're literally, I mean, and we both work full time. you know, he can't sleep.

Like, you know, I mean, it's, he's, he's, he's, his mind is all in a kind of crazy place. And it was like, maybe this wasn't the right thing. Yeah, it sounds like that for where we're at in the story. We know that you go on to continue doing it. So what changes? Because it's interesting that here you're at. And it is very, it is kind of like, well, maybe you're not like cut out for this. And there's nothing wrong with that.

I think most people aren't cut out for it. You know, it's, that's a fact. Well, on the, probably the fourth night or something, one of these times I woke up. I went to my computer and I started writing. And I wrote out like a three, four page, almost like a short story of the event. Okay. And there was something about putting what I had visualized

and felt onto paper wrote the spell. Oh, I love that. I went back and, you know, probably five, six o'clock in the morning or something. And when she woke up, I showed her what I had written. And she was crying and it was, and I think what it was, is she experienced it, eyes closed, and wasn't really engaged with the guy per se. Yeah. But she wasn't, you know, doing any, she wasn't doing anything to him or it's pleasuring him. It was just sitting being pleasure.

And I was sort of watching from afar. And so I was taking in all this, the sensory sort of details of the visuals, the, the, visual, the, audio, the lighting, the shadowing. It was just, and it was in my brain. I put it all on paper, and it was, you know, and I think it was just, somehow it broke the spell. And from then, I could start, I start sleeping again. Interesting.

Yeah. It really is. It's interesting. And I, I don't know why, but it helped. Yeah. Well, listen, I used to journal right until, like, Google came around because I'm like a Googleaholic. That's what I do now before I go to sleep.

I just Google shit because I like to know everything. But when I used to journal, it was like the greatest thing. Like just there is something about like, you know, taking whatever you're thinking about and just like throwing it onto paper that it really releases things. And so now you said like you said she was crying when she read it. Like how do you go though from like knowing all these feelings that he has to like allowing

like or deciding to do it again? Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think knowing that okay, you know, we're both sleeping now. Okay, that's good. And there was a, I don't know, maybe. four or five months in between our next experience

and we started, we were going away you know, together for the weekend and we sort of talked like, hey, you know, it's just the two of us. We're going away. No kids. We're going to a new city. Like, you know, maybe maybe this is, this is the time. And it was for sure more Jeff like he had been

looking online and, you know, SDC. Oh, good. Wait, I got to give my code. I haven't been doing it lately. But SDC people can go on. SDC. I mean, I do have a free trial. You could use it. You get a free trial at 3-7-1-2 or go to the description and click on.

So many people have signed up, by the way, for my treatise of free trial. I think it's great to offer. Yeah, it works. And he, you know, started communicating with people. And at first I just was like, oh, my God, what are we doing? Like, I'm definitely coming from, you know, for sure, just this vanilla and religious background and everything. And yes, I've had this experience.

And, but that felt very specific, that experience that it didn't feel. feel like, you know, we're swingers. We're like, it just felt like, oh, I had this experience and it was great. And so, yeah, so we, you know, he started communicating with people and then ultimately, you know, started checking in with me about here, here's the profiles. Here's what they've said, like, take a look. And I think if I remember correctly, he had said, what about this guy? And I said, yes. So there's a lot of knows as I was going through.

And so I was like, okay, yeah, yeah. And so we, he was communicating with him. And I feel like I'm missing parts of the story. Jeff, anything I'm missing here? Yeah. So she, so we found in, you know, I think the guy she said, yeah, we actually were going to, there was a couple, we were gone, we were supposed to be away for like four nights or something. And so I had lined up, I was trying to line up like a new guy every night.

Yeah. But we can talk about this. Hold on. But understanding, thinking, if I'd heard from many of your, your callers, a lot of guys flake out. Yeah, that's smart. I figured maybe I'll get one hit if I have four lined up or something like that. It actually turned out to be true. Yeah.

It turned out to be true. But the first guy was the first night. He was 15 years, our junior. We're in our late 40s. And so we met him. He came to our hotel room or came to our hotel. We met, you know, basically in lobby, had a drink. And then just quickly moved back to the bedroom.

And, you know, I had been listening to your podcast to it by this time for, I don't know, a year and a half or something. So, which provides a lot of coaching and details for these sorts of things. Yeah. So, and then, and she was dressed, you know, had some lingerie on and like a really nice dress. And so she, she was feeling sexy. And, and we basically talked about the ground rules with this third person. And what were they? Oh, just, I don't know, would we say, I think no anal.

The ground rule. The ground rule. The ground rule. We actually did not even bring up kissing. I don't think you're good. No. I mean, we're so like we're just jumping into the, like, we literally are like, in hindsight, we're like, man, we just like jumped into this.

Yeah, yeah. Okay. So you picked a young hot guy, right? And you're in the hotel. Yeah. And so I just basically started kissing her and took and, you know, and dressed her, got her dressed down. And then it was sort of like.

like, okay, let's move to the bed. And he got undressed real quickly. And then she's there. In my mind, it was like, this is what we had been fantasy, fantasizing about on watching porn. Two guys. She's there in the middle. Two guys are. Yeah.

And, I mean, maybe you should describe it. They want to hear from you probably. Well, I mean, one on each side, you know, and I think we had watched this one porn an episode that like, you know, the woman was stroking these guys, one on each side, laying on the bed. And that's kind of exactly what we did. And then I think probably what was the most interesting thing is, and I didn't end up kissing him, which was interesting. I didn't really, I didn't really think much about it during. But it was, it felt pretty like, I think these kind of things could feel pretty unnatural, but it felt very natural. Like we sort of moved around from positions to positions.

And I don't know. We're just kind of taking it all in. And he had a great cock. And like, and he's young. And I mean, all these things. And it was just,

it was great. You know? Yeah, that's a good first experience. Because I've heard, I mean, it can be awkward. The guy,

the guy that shows up can not know what the fuck he's doing. Or there could be a lot of like other things that could happen. I mean, you were, you guys were lucky that this first experience did feel very natural and all that kind of stuff. Yeah, he had done a, he, he was somewhat experienced, I think. Yeah. You know, yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. And he was, he was really, really polite and just very, like, you know, letting us take the lead on what we were. I mean, he just, yeah, yeah. It was a good, it was a great experience. Like, did you do spit roasting and those kinds of things? Like, was that a part of your, like, fantasy?

I'm not sure it was part of my original fantasy, but yes, he did it, and it was great. It sounds like you really wanted to jerk two guys off at the same. time. Doesn't that a big part of like the scene you were painting? Yeah, I mean, I think for sure more Pillow Princess, for sure. Like, oh, I just have these two guys. Oh, all over you. Yeah. And all this kind of stuff. But, you know, of course. That was hot. He went down on her, you know, pretty quickly and she had an orgasm. And then it was just, well, we'll get to the, because we, he ended up coming back a couple nights later. Okay. And so. Then we had a flakeout guy, right? Blake out the second night, some guy was a total douchebag.

And just, we asked for pictures and he sent these raunchy. It was just bad. It wasn't even up him. And it was just trying to be funny. And it was just not. And so Michelle was really demoralized and thought, what are we doing? Why should we be doing this? And we ultimately called the dude, the guy from the first night on a whim, thinking, well, what if he's available?

Would you do that again? She said, sure. So we called him and sure enough, he's like, I can be there in an hour. And so he comes over and we basically duplicate the first session, but this time we get video of it. And so, which was amazing. So now it's like that first night, it's all kind of a blur. I don't remember exactly what happened. But this second session now, we got about 20, 30 minutes of video.

And he'd obviously done this before because he was like adjusting the lights and he he would drive the, you know, from the phone. And it was amazing. It absolutely amazing. Yeah. And does this go back to that first time where you were sitting there watching and now you realize like you like to have that scene and watch it back and be like from that position? That's why you like to videotape. Well, I certainly do. Yeah.

I'm not sure. Michelle, there's she's, well, you can speak. There are certain videos that I like watching less than others. Because you're self-conscious about how you look in them or something like that? Like it's a weird angle. One of them, one of them I am self-conscious about how I look. The others, I guess it's probably, sure, it's probably a little bit of self. But it feels, I don't know, there's just something weird about watching yourself.

And there's, yeah, I don't know. I'm growing into it. Let's just say that. Listen, it's not, it's not a, I think that's kind of like a kink. Some people are very into that kind of a thing and some people aren't. And I just think, you know, it's like the difference between someone who's more of a voyeur or an exhibitionist. Some people could be both. Some people really like to watch.

Some people don't. I asked my guy that I banged to videotape and he was like the one that was self-conscious. It's like, wow, I don't want to see myself on felt. You know, and I was like, okay. But I like to see that kind of stuff. Like everyone's wired differently. Yeah. Yeah, it's true.

And Jeff, on the other hand, has had material for months now because he gets to go back and watch these. Exactly. Yeah. These are, and I'm like, I'm okay tonight. I don't need to watch it. But sometimes I'm, I'm watching it with them. And I'm like, okay, yeah, this was, this was a really, really amazing experience we had. Yeah. Well, the guys do explain that like a big part of like seeing their wife with somebody else that they enjoy is it becomes like, it's like watching your wife as your porn store instead of watching some random chick online that you don't even know. You know what I mean? So it's like, yeah, he says that. Yeah, that they watch that more than they watch porn, you know, because like why watch porn when he could watch your video? Yeah, that's exactly exactly what he says. He says it all the time. And he's like, it's like my own, my own personal collection. And it's you. It's like, you know, what could be hotter than, you know, watching your own wife. Yeah. Okay. So go on to what the rest of your experiences. So, but did a little side tan. I had another sleepless night. Oh yeah. I should have asked you. That should have been my next question. Thanks, Jeff. Like, how are you feeling now after? Because this comes after you had that whole freak out kind of. Yeah. And. And I think in Michelle really was like, well, screw this. We're not doing that. You know, she kind of had that because like I can't, you know. Yeah.

But again, I did some more writing and that seemed to help. And yeah, and it kind of broke the spell again. And so. Can I just ask you, Jeff, though, because like when I do have somebody on who, like, obviously has a big part of themselves that is not feeling okay with it, why do you want to push through it? Is it because there's a big part of you that's, like, very turned on by it, too? And that side, like, wins out.

Like, why even bother if, you know, you feel that way? That's my question. Yeah. Well, I think both are true. One is, it is hot. And secondly, I think there's this, it's almost like this. Have I really faced something that I can't handle emotionally is a little bit of a hit to the ego. Like, am I really that fragile?

Right. Can I handle this? And that's a, and that itself is a blow to the ego. And one of your guests, and I want to make sure I mention this, you had had on, I think a guy who had written a book. Yeah. him. That's who I think about. He's a friend of mine. And we talk all the time. And he said, something he said that resonated with me when he said, is my identity wrapped up in my ability to pleasure my wife more than anybody else? Yeah. And if so, that's a pretty, that's a pretty

weak connection. If that really, it's, you know, it's pretty depressing if that's my identity. Right. I'm not all these other things that make a couple or make a partnership. And And that really kind of stuck with me, I think allowed me to sort of release some of that feelings, those feelings that I was having like, hey, she's an independent person. She can be pleasureed by somebody else. That doesn't take away from my relationship with her in any way. Yeah, I love that. That was literally the basis of his whole book and why he wrote it, you know.

And that book has gotten really great reviews. He actually helped me with my book. He's a good writer. And I love that. You took that from his interview because I thought it was a very interesting angle that he had. Okay, so you had one, this time it was just one sleepless night. Well, that was like two or three. I can't know. But it wasn't as bad. It definitely wasn't as bad. And I think because he was, he was sort of talking about it and working through it and writing immediately and everything. And it was

like, okay, like we're, okay, we're through it. Because I, I mean, I was more like, I love you so much. I don't want you to be experiencing this. And if this isn't going to work for us, but we were working through it. Okay. Yeah. And then we probably should get, So when we traveled, so it was probably another four or five months, we were traveling internationally. And we went to, had arranged to meet a couple. We were planning on going to a club while we were traveling. And so we went to this club and we were in Europe. Yeah, we were in Europe.

And we had went to the club and kind of were trying to, you know, walk around, did the whole thing. And I'll be honest, like the number of attractive. if people wasn't that high and nothing was really resonating with us and we had a drink, whatnot. And then eventually we said, hey, well, why don't we, you and I, you know, we'll just go find a room, find a room and have sex, just two of us. And we were, by this time, we were going around. All the doors were locked.

Like people were already occupied and we found one that was open. It was like, oh, we, we cruised in and shut the door and then kind of started undressing. And then we realized, like, this was a joint room. Like there was a, or a, like almost like a lattice. like a wall. There was an adjacent room with a lattice as the wall. But you could see, so there was another couple on the other side, and we were on our side, but there was a divider, but it had large openings in it. So you could see through.

Usually see through and even stick your hand through. You can get your hands through. And that'll come up in a second. Yeah, okay. It's kind of like a glory hole, but like bigger holes. No, no, no. It was like a lattice. Yeah, I got it.

Like the lattice. Okay. Okay. Go on. So we start having, like, I was a little like, oh, maybe we should leave. And Michelle was the one was like, oh, no, no, no. Let's, let's continue here. Yeah, I thought it was not.

It was like, oh, they're having sex right now. They were fucking, yeah, they were having sex. So we start going out. I can't remember exactly how we started, but we were probably going out of it for 10 minutes or so. And then I said, I was like, oh, hey, you should ride me and face them as, you know, kind of a little baby, a little bit of an exhibitionist kind of thing. And so we do that. And then and so we're sort of, she's facing them.

And then she moves up to sit on my face. And which is something I love to do. And so that was going on. And I'm in kind of heaven here. And somehow I didn't realize this, but unbeknownst to me is she and the other girl were going at it. Oh, is that a new thing for you? And did you even know that you were into that, Michelle?

That is a new thing. I did not know I was into that, had never experienced anything like before. So we were, yeah, we were making out. We were touching each other. But he didn't know. Because his whole face is covered and he's not looking in that direction. And so I think, you know, you came up from that position and you were like, oh, my God. Like, what?

It was the hottest thing. It was the hottest thing I have ever witnessed in my life. And because before the she was she was all dick. She was like not really interested even a couple. She just said, look, because she wanted her young dude. That was her fantasy. Yeah. So to see this was incredibly hot.

And so I got behind her and started fucking her from behind while she's making out and with this gal. And the other dude was fucking her, you know, on the other side. But they were touching and kissing through this lattice. And it was incredibly hot. Yeah. And I think when I look at people like on a phone and I'm trying to figure out, oh, should we meet up with this person, it doesn't, it doesn't do much for me. And so I think this moment of being in a club and having it feel more spontaneous and it was really hot. And that resonated with me much more. And so, you know, I think meeting people that way and having those experiences at clubs for me was like, okay, check, this works. for me and let's try it again. Oh, yeah, that's like online dating.

It's like the difference between online dating or meeting a guy in a bar. I think it's very hard to get someone's vibe from a flat picture. You know, I don't find myself attracted to anybody that way. But in person, it's a totally different thing. So I totally get that. So that experience with that girl. And so now are you open to being with women again or have you been? I don't know what else.

I don't know how many more stories you have. I mean, I'm open to it, but it hasn't. It hasn't been, I'm not even sure what word you use, but it hasn't been beyond like kissing or anything like that. Right. You know. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I don't know.

I think TBD maybe, you know? Okay. I don't know. But you like going to clubs? I mean, did that open you up to maybe when you got back to wherever you guys lived to, like, go to clubs in your area or, you know, close by or whatever? Well, we're, we don't play in our neighborhood. I know, but most of the time, yeah, but you know, an hour away, two hours away, you know, a lot of times people go. Well, we haven't done that yet, but we, you know, while on that same trip, that was the first night.

We met a couple the second night. Oh, okay. They were an advanced couple, and it was a very neutral experience. Oh, I remember this from your email. What does that mean? I was like, oh, what does that mean a neutral experience with a couple? Well, just, I don't think that they were elegant couple and attractive enough, but just, It felt a little forced, and I couldn't actually perform.

I couldn't get it up. I couldn't get hard. And that kind of was a drag. And she, I don't know, Michelle, you can, but she, I said sort of not super attracted to the guy. And it just, it was felt forced. And so that was kind of a neutral experience for us. That's why I say that. And it wasn't, it wasn't a negative.

It just, it wasn't hot like our other experiences had been. But let me ask you this. In that experience, was it on the table for you to, like fuck the wife and that was going to be okay and you just couldn't get into it. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. We had talked beforehand and this was our, I mean, it feels like we just, you know, I was like, wow, we're just like going from one thing to the next to the next, you know, because we haven't had a ton of experiences, but we kind of moved, we moved on to the couple. And yeah, I mean, we were, it was completely open. And I think one of the things that we took away from that was actually if we decide, you know, to do that again, like, we think that maybe. starting with parallel play might be a better option for us because we sort of just like jumped right on

into you know somebody else right. Right. Yeah. And it just wasn't working for him. You know, and. And I wanted to actually play with my wife. You know, I wanted her to be the center of attention. I didn't want to like not participate with her. You know, listen, you've probably, since you listen to my podcast, like a lot of guys that really love to watch their wife and have compersion and everything, they don't really care about fucking other women. Like a lot of times it doesn't really matter that much. Though you did love seeing her with the other woman and everything like that, but, you know, sometimes it's not such a, oh, you know, because they're getting so like you're so into seeing her with other guys that it doesn't really matter. I don't know. You tell me.

Well, I don't think it's that strong. I think if the right situation were to come up. I think I would enjoy it. Certainly a threesome with another female. Yeah. This one just was kind of forced and I, I, I, it did just, it, she didn't do it for me. Yeah. You know? And that, you know, that's a problem. No matter what you do, you can't, you know, just didn't work. Yeah, that's a problem. You got a really hot woman you're with. I mean, you, you got to find a girl that you're very attracted to. How did you meet that couple that it would, like, and why did you sign up if you didn't feel that way? Oh, okay. And they seem, they looked They were attractive.

Yeah, yeah. Well, they were attractive enough. It wasn't that they were. It's just the personality, you know, you're sitting having, you know, at a bar and it just was a little forced. Like, yeah. I get it. It's chemistry. You just, yeah, sometimes it's just not there.

I get it. Yeah. We were rookies and they were advanced and I think they just wanted to get down to business. And, you know. Yeah, they did. I agree with you. It was for sure just like, let's just do this. Yeah.

And you guys were like. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And we went. Yeah, go on. I say we had, we went to another club, like we traveled through different city in Europe and went to another club.

And this one, we had a little bit of an exhibitionist time where we ended up having sex. Like on a, there was like a, like a kind of a really large area where I think people would. And there was a couple having sex on one side of it. And we started having sex. And I think she was suck in my dick. And all of a sudden, like, all these people started appearing. And, you know, she was suck of my dick. And there was probably 20 people watching.

And I think when it was a few people, it was kind of hot. We were into it. And then all of a sudden it was, I don't know, it seemed like it was four or five people. And then it was like 15, 20, 20. And then it was kind of crowded. And we kind of like, that's too many people and they're too close. And we kind of got our clothes and zipped out of there. Oh, how funny.

You didn't like that whole vibe. Well, they were a little bit too close. And, you know, again, not everybody's super attractive. I got it. Yeah. Yeah. And you feel like, yeah. So that was, and I think, I think that was it.

Listen, that's a lot. I mean, it's not like that's it. I mean, you guys have kind of, you did a little sampling of a lot. What's on your, yeah, what's coming next? Yeah. So we have another international trip next week. And so we're definitely going to do the club thing for sure. We've looked at a few places.

And then we're also communicating mostly with guys for that. trip. So I think, yeah, we're just kind of, we're going to kind of go with it and, and see what happens. And we just, I think we have just an incredible, you know, intimate, like, relationship. And we can talk about all this stuff. And we haven't really had anything that's, other than the sleeping issue, we're like, okay, we're going to keep going with it. But can you sleep, like, the last experience you had, or was the last experience you had that you did have a sleepless night? Or have you had an experience where there were no sleepless nights? Yeah, yeah. It was just those.

first two with the MFF. Okay. So after that, it was, okay, but you're still going to continue. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I love it. Okay, listen, I love a newbie story. I love that. You brought, like, you know, all this stuff. Like, I've been talking to couples for, like, it's 11 years, you know, so I always, and I feel like anytime I talk to a couple, I get a very different story. I love the whole sleepless nights thing. I think it's super interesting. And I think, like I said, probably a lot of guys might be able to relate and they just don't put it into words or they don't even realize it, you know, but I love that. You put it together and knew what was happening. And if it happens, you don't have anybody to talk to about other than maybe other than your spouse. Yeah. But you know, you're not, you can't talk to a guy friend about it or I suppose a therapist or something, but no, but the whole point is you should talk about it. And the point is

that a lot of people are like emotionally intelligent enough to even understand that that's why they're fucking waking up. You know what I mean? At least you kind of could put it together. That's what I'm saying. And I think that that's great. And I think it's, you know, that's what it's all about. Because at the end of the day, even the most professional swingers that I know are people that are doing this, you know, sometimes there might be a time where they don't feel right about it or they have a feeling. And, you know, that's the kind of stuff that you really need to talk out, right? You can't keep that to yourself. That's where the problem starts. So it's interesting that you were able to push through it. It's interesting that you, you know, Adam helped you. I'm going to tell him about that. You like that.

Yeah, please do. Yeah. Yeah. It's a good. thing. And Kathy, you're doing good work as well. And I think you're the spectrum with which you, you, you highlight all the diversity in sexuality, you know, is you're really doing good work. And I appreciate it. Yeah, I think it's important. Help me personally and help us both. Yeah, I love that. I think that's super interesting. I mean, at the end of the day, it is just sex, right? It's not that deep. But I think it is kind of, you know, like, I get emails all the time from people saying, like, oh my God, thank you so much. your podcast has helped me, you know? And I think maybe a lot of people would look at my titles on my podcast and never think that's the case. But the truth is I am helping people and that's why I did start

my show. So I love that. And I love having couples like you call in. I love the stories of people like you, like I said, like newbies that are kind of new that changed everything around. Because like I, and I always say this. Like my show isn't here to say like this is something that everyone should do. It's not like I think everyone should have a non-monogamous relationship. But I think that what's important to say is that, you know, it not only do people do this, you know, it can work and it can be successful. And that's what I think a lot of people don't realize. And that's what I want my show to say. Like, this is what some people do. And sometimes it makes them closer than they ever were before, you know? And I think that that would blow some people's mind, you know? Yeah, for sure. Yeah. So thank you guys

so much for calling in. I'll give you free access to my Patreon for like a month. Can you send me like, like picks for my Patreon, you know the whole deal. If you want to send me anonymous picks for my Patreon, anonymous, and then I'll give you free access to my Discord.

My Discord's pretty crazy. You might meet people over there if you're traveling. People are hooking up on my Discord. There's like a lot of stuff going on there. I don't like get involved. It's more X-rated stuff, but like that's where you could go in

for free and do whatever you want. Or you could just look or you don't even have to sign up. But if you want to, there's a guest channel there when you sign up. Just let me know. You'll get a free link to that when we hang up. And then I'll give you the free link to a Patreon. when your episode air so you could see comments and everything.

And then send me those pictures, though, sooner than later, because I love your story and it'll be up very soon, okay, on Monday. Thank you. Thanks, you guys. Thanks so much for calling. You did so good without saying one real name. I don't know how you remember Jeff and Michelle, but you never veered once. I don't think I've ever had a couple.

So good. Thanks, you guys. Thanks so much for calling in. Thank you. Bye. Okay. Bye. Okay.

Okay. Okay. I just want to tell you before you go that my book, it's called Strictly Anonymous Confession, and Secret Sex Lives of Total Strangers is now available not only in paperback and e-book but you can pre-order the audiobook.

It's still not going to be out until August 25th, but you can pre-order it. The book is basically 17 different stories taken from my show. I kind of picked one story from each category that I talk about on my show. Like there's a hot wife story. There's a cuck queen story.

There's a cuck story. There's a gang-bang girl story. Like I said, 17 stories, and they're all told in the third person, and they're all true. I took the interview and rewrote it in the third person, and I wouldn't really call it like a total erotica book. Think like Penthouse letters. It's more direct. It's not so over the top like erotica. I don't really like that kind of vibe, right? But these are true stories. 17 of them. They're really short chapters, easy read. You could read, you know, one or two, and then skis. up around. You could read the whole book. It's available in eback format, paperback format,

and finally, the audio book is available coming out August 25th, but you could pre-order it now. And if you buy my book in any format or pre-order it, I will throw in a complimentary link to my Discord. My Discord does not disappoint, okay? There's no way you get into my Discord any other way than getting the link from me. Okay, I give it to people who buy my book. There's tons of people in there. Everybody shares content with each other, and that's what you get to do there. You can post your own pictures and videos. There's tons of channels. We have lots of contests where you can win a lot of money.

It's a super fun place to be. It's a total, strictly anonymous community, and you will love it. I will be giving anyone who buys my book access to my Discord. It's private, like I said. All you got to do is email me a screenshot of your purchase, whether you did the audiobook, the ebook or the paperback. sent it to me at Strictly Anonymous Podcast at gmail.com. That's Strictly Anonymous Podcasts at gmail.com.

And I will send you the link to Discord. So anyway, thanks so much for tuning in. This is the Strictly Anonymous Podcast.