Strictly Anonymous Confessions - 1255 – Threesomes, Jealousy, Non-Monogamy and More w/Adam

Episode Date: October 22, 2025

Adam called in to talk all about how he dealt with and conquered his jealousy in his non-monogamous relationship. Tune in to hear all the details including how hardcore his girlfriend was and how and why he was super jealous about the way she wanted things set up, the boundaries he tried to put in place and why they didn’t stick, the first sex party they went to and what made him extremely jealous and how he dealt with his feelings, how she liked to tell him about her hookups and how he learned to handle that even though it made him feel terrible, how writing helped him process his emotions, what went down the night she had a foursome and why that was his breaking point, how being uncomfortable and pushed out of his comfort zone actually helped him grow, how reframing and tools from extreme sports helped him calm his mind, why he now believes a little jealousy can be healthy, and how he eventually got to a a place where it even turned him on plus a whole lot more. You can buy his book here: Seek the Risk **To see HOT pics ADAM and his GF JANE plu see pics of my other female guests + hear anonymous confessions + get all the episodes early and AD FREE, join my Patreon! It's only $7 a month and you can cancel at any time. You can sign up here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.patreon.com/StrictlyAnonymousPodcast⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and when you join, I'll throw in a complimentary link to my private Discord! MY BOOK IS NOW OUT FOR PRE-ORDER!!!! Strictly Anonymous Confessions: Secret Sex Lives of Total Strangers. A bunch of short, super sexy, TRUE stories. GET YOUR COPY NOW: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://amzn.to/4i7hBCd⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠   To join SDC and get a FREE Trial! click here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.sdc.com/?ref=37712⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ or go to SDC.com and use my code 37712   Want to be on the show? Email me at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠[e-mail]⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ or go to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://www.strictlyanonymouspodcast.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and click on "Be on the Show" Have something quick you want to confess while remaining anonymous? Call the CONFESSIONS hotline at 347-420-3579. You can call 24/7. All voices are changed.  Sponsors:  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://uberlube.com/discount/Strictly⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Use code: STRICTLY for 10% off Uberlube aka the BEST Lube EVER ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bluechew.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Get your first month of the new Blewchew Max FREE! use code: STRICTLYANON ⁠⁠https://beducate.me/pd2532-anonymous⁠⁠⁠  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Use code: ANONYMOUS to get 50% off your yearly pass plus get a 14-day money-back guarantee ⁠⁠⁠https://brooklynbedding.com⁠⁠⁠⁠ Use my promo code STRICTLY at checkout to get 30% off sitewide ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://vb.health⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ To get 10% off Drive Boost by VB Health use code: STRICTLY ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://butterwellness.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Use the code “STRICTLY” at checkout for 20% off your entire order To get $15 OFF your female oxytocin arousal tablets and more, use code STRICTLY here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://shamelesscare.sjv.io/xLQ3Jv⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow me! Instagram ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/strictanonymous/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Twitter ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://twitter.com/strictanonymous?lang=en⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Website: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://www.strictlyanonymouspodcast.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Okay, today I have on Adam. Adam's back to talk about jealousy. in non-monogamy. I had an episode recently. It was so good. And the guy really copped to feeling like jealous and being in his head after his wife started hot wiping for him. And he was very honest about that.

And so many people responded to it because I think so many guys aren't, not that they're not honest about it, but, you know, they don't remember those feelings. And maybe they had them and they don't bring them into the conversation a lot when I'm talking to them. But I think it's important because I think a lot of people feel a little jealous every now and then, especially when they're just opening up and having an open relationship. And I think it's harder for guys to be honest about that kind of stuff. But it absolutely comes up for people. So if, you know, you're here listening to this episode because you want to learn about it. Adam is like the

best person to hear speak on jealousy and non-monogamy because he had like the craziest girlfriend named Jane who would make the most sane person fucking jealous like a maniac, okay, because she was so extreme in her the way she wanted to roll in non-monogamy with him. He agreed to it. He explains why. I mean, she's super cool. They're still great friends. He was married to her. Things worked out in the end, but she really did push him to face parts of himself, and especially jealousy and control because of how she wanted to roll and how she wanted the relationship to be. She was very non-monogamous. She was very into fucking whoever she wanted, and he wanted to be with her. So he really worked through it, and he worked through his jealousy, and he worked through

his control and he talks all about it. He talks about their experiences and how it all came up with him. And he also talks a lot about like how he dealt with it and how he was able to work himself through it and how it came up for him and that how eventually he was able to make it work to his advantage and he would use the jealousy to turn him on. And then it's also interesting to hear like where he's at now after experiencing such a non-monogamous relationship for long. He was with Jane for 10 years. And like I said, when you hear her stories and hear how she rolled and hear how she would make him jealous, you're going to be like, oh my God, poor Adam. But it taught him a lot. He's here to say that he values that relationship because he learned a lot about himself and he conquered a lot of

his own sort of issues and dealt with stuff and learned a lot. And you could learn a lot by listening to him. And he wrote a book about it. It's called Seek the Rest. That's why I had him on my show a long time ago to talk about that book. And then I had Jane on, the girl that he's talking about, I've had her on. I have Adam's whole backstory. Plus he wrote the book, which is super helpful for any guy that wants to, you know, read up and get more information on jealousy and non-monogamy because you're thinking about doing it or you're doing it and you're having some feelings. His book is really great. I only get great reviews back from anyone that has ever bought it. It's called Seek the Risk. I'll put the link in the description, but anyway, I'm going to get right to and be right back on

with Adam. Hey, Adam, welcome back to the Stricklandama's podcast. How are you today? I'm good. I'm good. I'm having you back on my show. I just want to give everyone a little backstory on why I'm having you back on is because you actually came up. a conversation in a really amazing episode that I just aired where a guy talked about and was very honest about the fact that he was very jealous when him and his wife first opened up their relationship. Now, when you first came on my show, you came on because you wrote a whole book about jealousy and being jealous and working through that. I mean, you and you had a very extreme case. So you were like really forced into dealing with your jealous.

being more jealous than you ever were. And you, instead of like walking away from the person, which I think would be the normal thing to do, you wanted to get past it and work through it. And you did do this. You were able to do it. You were able to work through your feelings because you really like this girl.

And you stayed with her. And she was the most promiscuous of promiscuous girls, right? I mean, she was really asking for a lot in that relationship, but you were allowed to deal with it through working through your jealousy. And that's exactly what my other caller did too. And he mentioned you because he was like, this other guy, Adam, talked about it. You wrote a book, just give a shout out to your book.

I'll put a link to it in the description. Yeah, seek the risk. One man's journey into non-monogamy. It was about my relationship with, or relationship with Jane in an extreme form of non-monogamy. It was the first non-monogamous relationship I had been, so I went into the deep end of the pool right away. And explain how non-monogamous she was,

because this wasn't just like, oh, even, it wasn't just like hard swapping. It was like, no, I want to fuck your friends, and you're going to have to deal with it, kind of swapping. That was actually, yeah, that was one of the hard lines like, you can't fuck my friends. But when I met her and she was 24, when I met her, she already slept with 500 people. So that gives you an idea of how promiscuous this was. And her idea of her relationship meant she got to fuck whoever she wanted whenever she wanted.

And if we're out on a date, she could go pick someone else up. That was her idea of what a non-monogamous relationship was. And me and having never done non-monogyn before, that was way, way too far in front of me. But we were falling for each other. So we started out with a little bit of a compromise and we had to work in. But by the end of the relationship in the book Chronicles my journey, by the relationship, I had full compersion, hearing her stories about getting laid and knowing she was out, having sex and even watching her, having sex, no longer created those feelings of jealousy within me. Yeah, so that's super interesting. You went from one end of the

spectrum all the way to the other. Now, I think Jane is like the extreme. And personally, to me, if you were like my friend in that time, I'd be like, why are you actually even? dating someone that's so sort of hardcore and making you feel so terrible, like why even bother working through? But the fact that you did it is actually great for everybody else because they can now learn from you. Well, I hope so. No, because I mean, my question would be, because you've been on my show before. Like, why would you even put yourself in that position to begin with? Like, if something in the way someone wants to roll is making you feel so terrible and so jealous, like maybe that's just not the right person for you. But I love that you work through it

because like I said, you could help others. And I don't think most people are going to deal with the extreme jealousy that you dealt with. But even a little bit of jealousy is a terrible feeling. Like the guy who called in that referenced you and talked about how he listened to your episode, he was like, you know, getting into hotwifing and he really wanted to be into it. And I'm assuming that's your story. And we're getting it more into your story. But like, he said that he would wake up at night, you know, after a great experience the first couple times.

and then his head would be like fucking going through it. You know what I mean? He couldn't get it out. And he gave some really good information on what he did to work through. And it happened a bunch of times, but eventually it stopped happening. So he went, I think, the harder route, which is to try to manage those feelings. But it's amazing that he did and you did as well, right? That's your story, but yours is just so extreme.

Yeah. And also I, so you're right, the relationship was so good on so many other levels. Right. that it was, it was worth, it was worth trying to get through this because I was literally every other part of the relationship was amazing. We connected on so many levels, intellectually, activity-wise, how we saw the world, where we wanted to live, art, music, theater, all that stuff. And then there was this other component. Oh, yeah, I like to have a lot of casual sex. And I had, the feelings that had brought up in me, at least, I was lucky. I was 40, but at the time

that this first started happening. And if I had been quite a bit young, I don't know if I would have the self-awareness to recognize the feelings and being curious about them, not just, oh, my God, this sucks. I wanted to stop immediately. Yeah. Being curious and like, hey, you're okay. Here's some feelings coming up. Let's try and figure out what's going on.

Yeah, I love that. Let me ask you this, though, because this was your first non-monogamous relationship. When it came to sex, like, did it turn you on to think about having multiple partners? Are you more wired to be monogamous? Or did you think that, oh, this non-monogamy thing is like really great? Like, how did you feel about that? No, I always wanted to have multiple partners. I loved having sex.

I mean, by the time I met Jane, I'd been with a little over 100 people, which, you know, for a 40-year-old man isn't that outrageous. But I was definitely sexually active, and I liked having a lot of partners. And I'd had a two or three-threesomes with girlfriends I'd had, and that was amazing. I thought that was super exciting. So, yes, I obviously was non-monogamous at some level. I just didn't call it that. I just called myself, I'm sexual. And when I met Jane, she was like, this is non-monogamy.

And I was like, huh, okay. And I recognized that I really did want to have multiple partners. And the first time I was ever really confronted with Jane having sex with someone else at a sex party, my jealousy, that was the first time my jealousy really exploded. And what's hilarious is that maybe 40 minutes earlier, I had gotten my cock sucked in the closet by some woman at this party. Yet I could not, I couldn't see how those two things were both two sides of the same. coin. I just hadn't, I hadn't gotten to the processing yet. Yeah, and that's typical human nature behavior, right? That you would be like, you could do it, but if you see her doing it, it makes you feel terrible, right? Right, exactly. Yeah, let me go back a couple seconds and then we're

going to get back to that party in that first time. I really want to dig deep on your feelings then, because I think those are, that's what's super interesting. But besides the fact that you were like, oh, when this was proposed to you, that you were like, oh, yeah, I'd be down for nonmonogamy. I like threesomes. I've done this before. Did you also like promiscuous woman? Because I got to say, there's a lot of guys that would hear a girl is with 500 guys and be like, oh, I don't like fucking like that. You know what I mean? But there are also guys, and I know these guys, that love a woman that's experienced and been

there, done that, and could care less about her numbers and doesn't have that whole Madonna whore complex thing. Did you like, quote unquote, slutty girls, girls that had a lot of experience, very highly sexualized women anyway? Yes, I did. And I've always loved freaky women. I've always loved women to let their freak flag fly that liked crazy. crazy sex, fun sex. I had this blind spot that I wasn't aware of is that I liked them as long as they

were within my limits of what I considered acceptable. And Jane was far, far beyond what I'd ever experienced or what I even, so it, I was like, that was the first thing that that I had the deal was like, okay, she's freaky. We can have, well, I can pretty much have a threesome any with another woman anytime I want. She's totally down. But she also wants to have threesomes with guys and she wants to go have three scenes guys without me. And to me, that's like, oh, that's too freaky. But then I'm like, wait a second. And this is where the 40-year-old benefited me.

Then I was like, okay, hold on a second. I have a limit. And is my limit arbitrary? And if it's arbitrary, where she is, it's just her arbitrary limit. So that was the thing that first started me questioning my own guardrails or my own edges. Like, okay, here's my edge. Why is it there? Every time she goes past it, I feel something bad, but why?

Okay, so let's go back to that first time. So she, like, puts this, when did she wind up telling you that this is what she was into? Like, did she sort of, like, roll it out slowly and you realized it was extreme after a while, or was she very upfront, like, right from the beginning? Very upfront, right at the beginning. And we knew each other for three years in sort of the party scene in New York City. And we had hooked up a couple times since she had a real reputation. She did not hide anything about herself.

She was out and proud about who she was. But I saw her sexuality and I was like, wow. And first of all, she's absolutely gorgeous. And like I said, we interacted on this real intellectual level as well. So I was always trying to be with her. And once we started hooking up regularly, there was a point where it was obviously sort of turning into more than just casual sex. And she basically had, we were sitting on the beach one day. And she said, look, if we're going to be spending a lot of time together, you're going to have to be okay with the fact that I

have sex with a lot of people, and that is not going to change. I mean, it's very clear. Listen, you've got to give her credit for being so honest. I love it. She was 100%. This is who I am. I mean, she's a sex educator, so she has been out there preaching, trying to get people not to feel shame about their sexuality in her own life, and she lived that.

She walked to walk, talk to talk. So at that point, because you knew who she was, you must have been assuming that if you're in a relationship with this girl that she's not going to be monotage. Or were you thinking you're going to be monogamous with her? Yeah, I had some assumptions around there that I wouldn't, I assumed that once we got into more of a tighter relationship, she would tone her behavior down to some level that I assumed that. Could not have been more wrong. And so I said, well, okay, look, could you, I said, I really would prefer if you didn't fuck my friends. That's something I don't want.

And she was like, really, why not? So I had to explain to her, why not? And then at some point I said, well, I was curious what the craziest thing you'd ever done sexually was. And she was like, well, I once got gangbanged and buccockied by 12 men. And I was like, okay, that's the most extreme thing I've ever heard in my life. So there was this shock value to the connection. But then again, up to this point for the last few months that we've been spending time together, I was literally having the best sex of my life.

I was 40 years old and I was having my brain exploded weekly with this woman. So I did not want to let this go. So I was like, all right, let's try this. So that was the point where I sort of agreed we would get into it. But I did say I want a don't ask, don't tell thing at first. We're going to start with a don't ask, don't tell. I don't want to know what you do when I'm not around. Okay, guys, now you're going to thank me later for this because I'm going to tell you

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And the great thing about Beducated is when you take that course, you're going to see Cunnelingus in action so you know exactly what you're doing. There is an explicit video there that's going to walk you through it. personally think that's the best way to learn is by actually seeing it in action. Okay, you're not just going to hear about what to do and all these 10 new moves. You're going to see it. So what are you waiting for? Do your girl a favor and take the convalingist course over at Beducated. And then she could take some classes over at Beducated.com because they have classes on oral sex for guys too, as well as so many other courses. And they also offer risk-free money back guarantee for 15 days so you really have nothing to lose. And for listeners of my show,

Beducated is offering 50% off their yearly pass. All you got to do is go to the description, click on the link, and use my code anonymous, and you're going to get 50% off the yearly pass. Just use my code anonymous after clicking on the link in the description to get 50% off plus the 14-day money-back guarantee. I was literally having the best sex of my life. I was 40 years old, and I was having my brain exploded weekly with this. woman. So I did not want to let this go. So I was like, all right, let's try this. So that was the point

where I sort of agreed we would get into it. But I did say, I want a don't ask, don't tell thing at first. We're going to start with a don't ask, don't tell. I don't want to know what you do when I'm not around. And I know that talking with her, the reason why, and we're going to, I'll give it her explanation for it. The reason why she was very into, like, telling you the story is because that's like a part of her, like, love language. That is a part of it for her. It wasn't like she just wanted to shove it in your face and be honest. It was like that was like her kink. It was a big part of what she enjoyed in the process. Just sharing that information with her lover. And that's why it was super important for her. But at first, because she liked you, she tried to, she compromised. Okay. I won't tell you.

And I won't fuck your friends. And I'll only do it when we're not together. When we were, she was up at school, getting her PhD. And so when we were together, when she was in the city, visiting me was just her and I together. We'd have, we'd have, you know, a threesome or foursome or something, but we wouldn't go off and have our own thing. But the stuff that she was doing up at school or when I was away, she wanted to tell me that. It really was what her love language, as you said. And so eventually, the Don't Ask, Don't Tell had to get dropped if I wanted to keep being with this woman. And that's when the real challenges began. Let's go back to that first moment, though, that you said that you did feel jealous. After your blowjob in the closet, where were you at a sex party?

Yeah, we were at a sex party. Yeah. Yeah. It was the first sex party. First sex party I'd ever been to. And it was just crazy. I mean, there was like 250 people. It was one of the classiest, wildest parties.

Top floor? Yes, it was top floor. Okay. Listen, let me just give a shout out to them because you hooked me up with them. Alon is your friend. He runs top floor. It is a very exclusive. Great swinger party, like, you know, sex party in the city.

And I had them on my show to talk all about it. So people could check out that episode, too. but anyway, go on. We want to give them a shout out because they're great. Yeah, absolutely. Topforklore club.com if anyone's interested. Yeah, perfect. So, you know, one of the ways we could,

she could explore her freaky side when we were together in cities if we'd go to a sex party, that was part of the deal. And I said, okay. And so finally, we were going to go to a sex party. We hadn't been to one yet. And I had been to one kind of small one with about eight people years ago with another girlfriend. It was very contained.

It was small. we're all in the same room. I was like, okay, I can handle this. I was not prepared for what. We showed up at this massive party, 250 people, huge, three, you know, massive penthouse in downtown New York City. And it was just mayhem. There was just people everywhere, clothes were coming off, sex, everyone.

It was wonderful music. And eventually, we just kind of, and when we would go to normal parties, we would always split up and go to our own thing and then come back together and dance and come back together and dance. And Jane wanted to do that at the sex party. And I thought that would be fine because I just didn't really. understand how big the party was. Anyway, we separate. We're at the party. She's off doing her own thing. I'm doing my thing. I end up meeting this girl. We end up hooking up in the cloak closet. It was

incredible. And then as I'm walking around, I hadn't seen Jane in a while. And it's a huge party. There must be 20 rooms in this party. So I'm walking through the party looking for Jane and I walk into this room and I see these three guys on a bed absolutely mauling this woman. And I was like, oh, that's interesting. And I look and I see it's Jane. And I'm like, How many guys, three on one? Three, three on one. Yeah, and there's a bunch of people standing around watching, and I walk in like, oh, what's this? And I'm like, holy, like, I literally froze.

I just, my emotions went through the roof. I wanted to burst out in rage, you know, and I just, I kept walking. I was like, don't stop, don't look, keep walking. And I just walked through and went into another room and just like stared out the window. And I'm sitting there like, holy shit, how could she do that? I hooked up with one person, but three, three is too much. And I'm going, I'm coming up with the most ridiculous arguments as to why what she did was wrong, because I was trying to justify this jealous rage that I had.

Did you contain it or did you lay it out on her when she was done? No, I absolutely contained it. So I did contain it. I just walked in and I just breath and I just sat in the other room for quite a while by myself till I calm down. You know, one of the things I've learned is I've gotten older that if you're angry at someone, there's nothing that can be said at that moment that can't be said 24 hours later and give yourself time to sort of process and think. So I always kind of follow that rule. And that's kind of where I was

with that. But I had never experienced jealousy like that before. Now, I had experienced jealousy with her previously, but not of that intensity. If I knew, you know, I knew she had hooked up with someone else or she had told him about something. I had jealousy, but it was very different when you see it live, as opposed to hearing about something that happened. Yeah, so let me ask you this, because I have been jealous from even hearing something like that you don't know, but seeing it, is that 10 times worse or like, I don't know. You don't know what's worse? The thoughts and not knowing and making it up in your fucking head and going crazy about it

or having it really like your face being smudged in it right in front of your face. Now, that's a very interesting question because there's, the reason why, because there's another there's another situation. There's not hearing about something that happened is also knowing something is going to happen in the future. To me, that was actually the worst. When I know she has a date on Friday, if I knew she was going to be seeing someone else, that my brain just started going down the death spiral and creating all these negative outcome fantasies based on what was going to happen. That type of jealousy tore me up the most. Yeah, that's what I would think. Because you have, like, I think one of the real bad things about jealousy and the harder things to get through it. And I think the

reason maybe why you were able to get through it and the other guy is because, you know, you were jealous of the truth. A lot of times what people's jealousy comes from is they're picking up on something. They think something might be going on and they don't have all the truth or someone was cheating and they weren't a part of it and the rug got pulled over them. And there's, there's all those questions and your mind plays tricks on you and it makes you fucking not just jealous but crazy. It's like crazy making jealousy. And I feel like when it's right in front of you, like maybe the difference is like you're just jealous. You're not fucking crazy, but you're just jealous, which is bad too, but at least you're dealing with the fact. Like you have all the facts. It's right in front of your fucking face. And maybe

that's why it's easier to be able to figure out how you can sort of deal with it than when it's like in your head and you don't know what's going on. You don't have all the information. Absolutely. Yeah. And I'm very clear about in the book about how when I knew about something happening in the future. That was the worst. So eventually I had a rule. Like, you can't tell me about things you're going to do because my brain will create all kinds of negative outcomes that I can't handle. And I'll just, I won't sleep for days. I'll just be, because I hadn't, I hadn't gotten to a point of confidence in our relationship yet, her confidence in myself, perhaps, that would allow me to be like, oh, you know, yeah, she's, oh, that's great. She's going to have

this great time. And then I'm going to see her two days later. I was still in a point where I didn't believe, I didn't, I didn't trust the relationship, so to speak. Let's, but I want to eventually get like I you know things and the actual things that you did to work through your jealousy just because this will this is like a bigger topic Wednesday episode a guy talk episode about jealousy to help other people that's really what I want my question is so that night right when you felt that you said you went into the other room and then what happens when you go home with her is that when you let it out like do you talk to her about it like what did how did you deal with your feelings that night you know after you took a moment to like breathe and shit I mean it does your feelings didn't go

way. What do you do with them? Well, it's actually funny because once, you know, the evening goes on, we're at the party, then finally I see her later. She comes and finds me. She puts her arms around me. We're dancing together. We're drinking. And all of a sudden, I'm like, oh, everything's, this is great. Why? Why am I getting so crazy? We have this deep connection. We go home together. We have sex. We wake up in the morning. We have sex. We have coffee together in the morning. So, and now, Now I'm like, what the fuck? This is where my brain's going. What the fuck?

Like, what happened that I totally lost it internally? Yeah, I love this whole thing because I'm just starting to realize that this is like jealousy in a totally different way. Like this is like, and I think that's why it's actually manageable because it's like jealousy with the truth, not jealousy like that comes into play in other situations when you're dating someone and they're flirting with everybody and cheating on you and all that kind of stuff. This is like a very different thing. And I think it plays out very differently because of it.

But this is like great for my show, right? Because people are listening to show not to because they're jealous of their guy or a girl cheating on them. It's because they want to share their partner and they're afraid they might be jealous. And I've got to say, I think that's okay. I think a new jealousy is totally healthy. And it's managed. It's, it's manager. If you can get it to a manageable place, I think you can use it to inspire.

And that's where I got to by the. end is I was using the jealousy as a driver. I was like, oh, yeah, oh, you think, you think that guy's good? Let me show you. It just became this driver to me of be the best fucking lover I can be. And that was a really neat benefit towards the, you know, it took a long time to get there. I'm not saying it happened overnight. But yeah, I think there is a, I think there's a healthy jealousy. I think there's a certain amount that's healthy. And then there's the unhealthy jealousy that destroys you and tears you down. So, I mean, the biggest jealousy I was dealing with was when she would tell, like, like we said earlier, that telling me about her sexual exploits that were happening when I wasn't there, telling me about

those stories was her love language. That's how she would get closer to me, but it would have the effect to push me further away. That was my first really big thing that I had to overcome. And the only way I did it was sort of to take it in baby steps. She used to just haphazardly tell me. Like, we'd go out and have a nice dinner, a romantic dinner. And to her, that was always like the perfect time to tell me about this MFFM three steps she had because she's feeling close to me and wants to feel closer. And for me, I'd be like, oh, God, get me out. I don't want to be here. Why are you telling you this right now?

So the first thing I did was make a container where I was like, okay, I travel. When we don't see each other, after we come back, you know, the next night we're going to have story time. You're going to tell me all the stories and I'm going to sit there and I'm just going to take it. And that was, and by doing that, I was able to start slowly like, okay, and you start understanding your emotions. You know it's going to be a finite time. You're going to hear it all.

And you're not going to hear it again. And to me, that was the first step, being able to know I was going, okay, I'm going to hear a story, let me prepare, let me see the emotions. And over time, it's the kind of thing that it doesn't just, you can't just be done with jealousy. You have to get more comfortable with it, more comfortable with it, start realizing that maybe the emotions that you're feeling aren't, they're not really, they're real, but the intensity may not be real.

And you could just, and on a certain point, you could also know it's just, it's a feeling. It's just a feeling. You know what I mean? I know as an alcoholic, when I quit drinking, I realize, oh, I drank because I couldn't fucking have a feeling. I didn't know what to do with them. You know what I mean? That's always drinking.

And a lot of addicts, that's like their thing, you know? And so when I had to learn how to become emotionally mature and deal with all my feelings, I started to realize over time and it takes a long time to learn. It's like, it's just a feeling. And you don't have to act on it and you don't have to do anything. And what happens with a lot of people is like a feeling happens and you think you have to do something about it. You know what I mean?

And act on it. And then that creates sabotage. all kinds of problems where sometimes you could just say to yourself, and I could do this now because I haven't drank in 30 years. Like, it's just a fucking feeling and it may feel terrible and everything, but I don't have to do one fucking thing about it and it will pass. Absolutely. And the other thing, too, is like the feeling is real, but sometimes the amplification is the problem. Sometimes it just gets amplified so much that you can't contain it. And so what I was curious about is where was the amplification coming? What was causing me to make this into something far,

greater than it was. She fucked someone. She had a great time. Now she's coming home and she's sucking my cock. Like, why was that such a, why am I, why am I so blown up about that? And where I reached for my own, my own journey was that a lot of it just stemmed from like imposter syndrome or believing, I'm like, oh, maybe I'm not a good lover. Maybe she's going to meet someone who's a better lover. And that was, that was part of it. Then there was also the bit about like, all right, so what if someone is a better lover than me? Maybe I could learn something. Like, there's, there's all these cycles you go through and you start realizing that the intensity of the emotions is based on other stuff going on in your brain about yourself. You can be jealous and that's good,

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big thanks to Bluetooth for sponsoring the podcast. Like, all right, so what if someone is a better lover than me? Maybe I can learn something. Like there's all these cycles you go through. And you start realizing that the intensity of the emotions is based on other stuff going on in your brain about yourself. You can be jealous and that's good, but don't let it blow you up because you're worried about other things. And once I started realizing that and started looking at all the actual data, like, here's this, she's slept with 700 people, yet she keeps coming back to me. I'm the only one who keeps coming back to. I guess that means I'm doing something right. She's chosen me to spend her time with.

I'm doing something right. So that whole idea that, you know, I'm worried about being replaced. And again, I'm being exaggerate here. I'm not like, it wasn't forefront in my brain. Oh, she's going to replace me. But these things that were tickling the emotions, you start realizing that they're not based on reality. And I think that a lot of the jealousy that men feel have a component to that. And I'm not saying that women don't, you know, all partners don't do stuff that is worthy of you getting angry at.

But just make sure that it's actual a trust violation and not just you trying to protecting ego or trying to protect something about yourself that you're uncomfortable with. Let me ask you this, though, specifically. Like, you're talking about like, and I thought this, and then I thought that, like, I mean, you know, what was your actual process of working through your feelings? Like, it's one thing to sit around and think about it while you're walking or riding your bike. Like, how did you actually process the feelings specifically? Was there something you did? The pivotal chapter, the point where I, my, my jealous rage reaches the highest thing that's ever happened is at a point where she has a for some with a friend of her who's

dying and these two other guys, a friend of six months. to live once. Her friend was not a non-monautist person, but she wanted to have a two-guy, threesome before she died, and she had six months to live, and there was this whole scene, and it destroyed me to a place I'd never been that destroyed in my life, and the only way I got through it is by writing, and writing, and writing, and writing, and writing. And through that writing, where I really started understanding the bits I was talking about before, about the imposter syndrome, about not believing myself and that kind of stuff. By writing it out, I don't know what it is about writing, but I've always journaled. And there's something about writing it down

that gets it out and gets you to sort of see it in a different way. I don't know why that is. I'm not a psychologist. But for me, and a lot of other guys and even women I've spoken to found that writing out your emotions tends to help process them. Let me ask you this. What was it about that one time that made you reach your peak? So, so this was a pretty, it was a pretty unique situation where she had her best friend, her party friend, they would do all kinds of stuff together. No crazy sex stuff because this friend was very, I won't say vanilla compared with Jane. So they didn't really have a real sight. They talked about sex, but they weren't sexual with each other.

Then this friend gets diagnosed with stomach cancer, only six months to live and decides, you know, before I die, I want to have this crazy force of. So here is the situation, and as I spoke about earlier, where I know about something that's going to happen in the future, which is that's my kryptonite. I just, that was something I had not figured out how to process yet, because I hadn't understood that a lot of the problems were that were stemming from this imposter syndrome, which I figured out by writing, but that's, we already talked about that. Yeah, but can I just ask you a quick question? Why, if you have asked her numerous times not to tell you about anything because you don't

want to know, why was this proposed to you? Like, why did you know about us? Because this was a unique situation, right? So we had, and one of the roles was I don't like to know about something ahead of time. Yeah, right. That's right. But there was no way around this. I mean, the woman was staying with us when she got diagnosed with the cancer. And the boundary I had was that you can only do your crazy sex stuff when I'm not in town.

Well, unfortunately, time was an element here because the woman was dying. So they basically had to do it. Like, I couldn't just stay. So they're out trying to find, they're on the apps, trying to find two guys, trying to find two guys to do it. And they finally do. Why don't you want to? I'm sorry I keep interrupting.

This is a Wednesday episode and I get to talk to you. But let me just say, can I just ask you a question? Why aren't you one of the guys in this? Good question. I talk about this in the book. It's because myself and the other woman had no physical chemistry. I wasn't attracted to her. She wasn't attracted to me.

We just, we did not have that connection. So it made total sense that I wasn't one of the guys. Listen, this is her last dying wish. She wants to fuck two guys that she's into. Right. Yeah, I get it. Yeah. Yeah, and still, and so like they're out and they're trying to find guys, they're trying to find guys, everything's, they find the two guys and I'm here and I'm like, they're going to do it Saturday. I'm like, fuck this. I'm getting out of town. So I fly out west where I actually, that's my work was. So I go out west and I know that it's going to happen on Friday night. And I'm just tearing myself to pieces. And but I'm, you know, I'm keeping it contained. And I say, hey, have fun tonight. I send our text. And sometime in the afternoon. She doesn't. She doesn't.

She does not know what I'm going through. Yeah, I think that's a problem. I think it also helps. Besides writing, I think if you would have been able to just talk to her about your feelings more, don't you think I would have helped a little bit? Absolutely. It would have. And I talk about this, she is not someone who had any, she has grown since then.

But at the time, she was still pretty young. And she's like, I don't have, I don't have patience for your fragile male. Yeah, you knew on some level that you, even if you wanted to, she was not going to receive her properly, which is the worst way to be in an open relationship. And I'm just going to say, because I got to stick up for Jane here, and you are too. Like when she was on my show, she said looking back now, she would never set things up that way. She was a 25-year-old young girl, you know what I mean? And looking back now that she's more self-aware and older and more mature.

She realized it was like, you know, that is not the way she would treat somebody. Because in an open relationship, it is very important if your partner has feelings that you need to receive them. and you have to be available for that. But you knew that on some level, like it's either keep that shit to yourself or she's going to get irritated and you're going to lose her and you really liked her.

At some level, yeah, it's a little too black and white, but yeah, there was this element. I mean, in defense of Jane here, yes, she was very young. She didn't have experience. I didn't have experience. I'd never been in an open relationship before. Certainly I would never do it like that again

in terms of keeping myself, you know, my emotions hidden. But also, she had been, she had tried to be with guys and they were always abusive. I mean, you know, emotionally abusive to her about her sex. She's like, fuck this. I'm not putting it with any of your jealous bullshit anymore. You guys all suck. You want to believe me, this is who I am.

So I understood where she was coming from. I totally got it. She was very clear about her background and such. So, yes, so I'm out west. I am just losing my mind. I know it's happening. I go, whatever, do whatever I'm going to do that night, trying to distract myself.

I go to bed around midnight thinking, you know, it's two, it's, it's one a am on the, on the East Coast. It's probably all over. So I send her a text, hey, I hope it went well. I didn't hear anything. So I'm like, oh, maybe they're still going on. I go to sleep. I wake up the next morning, no text. I'm like, no phone call, no, nothing. I'm like, what is going on? And I start, I literally start falling apart to the point where I dial, you know, I go to call her five times just to start screaming or something and I just keep, no, you don't know what happened. Now it sounds crazy making. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I, I go to call her five times. I, you know what happened. Yeah, I was just, and so then I go out, and today I'm just trying to walk around.

Everything is just, nothing seems real. I'm lost in this jealous rage. There's no outlet, and I have no control. And I think that's, I think that's a big part of the jealousy is when you feel like you have no control of the situation. Oh, yeah, for sure. And flying off in a jealous rage, you know, it gives you the illusion of control, but it's not. But you really did have no control because she was not going to. to listen to you. It was really her way, not, or the highway, unfortunately. So you really, like,

didn't have control. Like, you couldn't tell her not to do those things, like, because she was, you knew she was going to do them anyway. So you were really not only dealing with jealousy, but really learning to give up control and allow things to happen and be okay with it, because most of us are like control freaks, right? Yeah. Yeah. And I've always been a control freak. Yeah. I mean, part of the, and we didn't talk about this early, part of the reason I said yes to this situation is because I knew I would learn I would learn so much about myself right because I'd never been put in a situation like this before and that the only way to grow is to get out of your comfort zone yeah for sure so fucking far out of my comfort zone right and that's part that's part of

the title of the book is seek the risk right if you don't go into the risky situation you're never going to grow you're never going to grow as a person you're never going to learn anything about yeah so you're really learning two big huge things huge yeah wait when did she call you up like when did you? So she does call me up in the evening of that next day, right? So, and this whole scene in the book on the shrine that she calls, right? I'm seeing, I'm seeing the caller ID. I'm like, oh, God, here we go. Because I was creating all these ideas in my head. Oh, my God. It was the most intense experience in their life. There's this dying woman with these men. She's falling in love with the guys because they're being so giving to her dying friend. I was creating the most insane negative

outcome fantasies. I have, like, it's just, it's just crazy, right? When you go back and you think about it. It's like, why our brain, why does our brain do that? But to me, that so much of my jealousy was based on these, these fantasies that weren't real. So I'm going through this whole thing. She finally calls, and I'm like, I'm, I'm, before, I'm like, reserving. I'm like staying, staying totally neutral until I know what happened. And when she answers, this gushing of love comes across the phone to me of It was the most beautiful night. Oh, my God. And she keeps saying, I love you.

I love you. I love you to me. That was, it was amazing. Thank you. Thank you for letting me do. It was just not letting. I don't think she said that. But she just, we stay on the phone for two hours, and it was like heartbreaking.

And she described in detail, and it was amazing that she was able to give this to her friend. Of course, she got fucked by both guys, too. But in this context of her communicating, and I just, I felt so, so loved by her in that moment. and it infinitely wiped away all the jealousy. And so then, after we spent two hours in the phone together and this amazing night, that's when I started writing. I was like, okay, what the fuck just happened? Because three hours ago, I was ready to kill myself.

And now I'm the happiest person in the world. So I'm like, something is fucked up here, these emotions that I'm feeling, that's the extremities of them aren't real. And I have to understand it. So that's when I started writing. I spend the whole night writing and figuring all that and I come to these amazing conclusions. And in reality, it took, it took like a couple months of writing, but you can't really write that in a book. So I kind of condense all the, all the exploration, all the writing and everything

I thought about myself and all the delve into my past and my psyche takes place in one long night. But that's, in reality, it was a few months. But a big part of what you sort of said and what your story was here to say is that you did use like this part of yourself, which was someone who went rock climbing and mountain biking and was super competitive. Like you used the tools that you learned in your competitive sports world to deal with the jealousy, correct? It's not that I learned to do with the jealousy.

I learned to deal with the emotions from the jealousy. Right? And that goes back to. And that's, but no, it's, it's, there's a nuance here, right? Like when I walk into the room and she was with the three guys and my emotions spiked, not reacting to an emotional spike, that is what I've learned in all the extreme sport. That was one of the biggest things I took from my competitive sports days is, you know, when you're doing extreme sports, you're climbing without ropes or base jumping or extreme

snowboarding. If you get an emotional spike, you cannot react to it because it will have devastating effects. So learning how to sort of contain those and manage them was a huge part of my life. And I was lucky in that when I went to this extreme nonmonogous relationship and I did get emotional spikes, I didn't react immediately. And that's really hard. And I don't know if I would be able to do that if I was much younger. Yeah, but that's important. That's important. I mean, in the earlier, you just said, oh, I just went in the other room and I breathe and I learned that I breathing. But it was this whole concept that you had learned through competitive sports of

how to deal with a strong emotion when you have it and push it aside. How do why, how does that refer, like how does that work in sports? Like, how did you learn that in sports and then translate it to there. Well, I mean, let's just take, you know, free solo rock climbing, right? If you're a thousand feet up a rock face without a rope and you start getting scared in your, your death spiral of fear can happen, and you got to shut that down. You got to reframe immediately. You have to go, no, no. And it's, you know, once you start putting yourself in the situations, it's very, when the, when the death spiral begins, it's very recognizable. The body temperature goes up, vibration, skin starts tingling. You know, holy, you know, like, uh-oh. And you, you know, and, you, you

have to start, you know, you have your mantra, chill the fuck out is the first thing I usually say to myself, which is oddly was the first title of the book was chill the fuck out, because that's what I was always telling myself throughout this relationship, chill the fuck out. Because that's what I say to myself when I'm, when I'm doing something crazy and all of a sudden I start getting too scared. Oh, I'm always like I want to channel my inner Tom Cruise, but it doesn't work ever because I'm not Tom Cruise and I'm not fearless like he is, but I'm like, you know, and I could really get into my head and I'm like, my son even has like a VR system, right? And he has this thing where you walk a plank.

And anytime I try to walk a plank, even in a VR, I can't do it anymore. I'm like, I'm the biggest fucking was the old try get. And I'm like, how do I talk myself through that? So how do you take those thoughts in your head, that fear and stop it before it becomes all consuming? And you have a panic attack or an anxiety attack or with me, I just take the thing off. I'm like, I can't do it. You know what I mean?

How do you work through that? Totally. So it's something actually like VR, I will say. It's called a reframe, right? Yeah. And so the first. So the first thing, first thing I do is tell myself to chill the fuck out. And then what I do is I start, I start expanding the picture.

Like I take a wide angle of view and I'm like, look where I, like, let's take, let's take the night of the sex party that first time, right? I walked into the other room. First, chill the fuck out. Then I'm like, look at where I am. I'm on a rooftop, 360 degree view penthouse party in New York City. How awesome is that? I'm here with someone who I love and who loves me.

I'm having great sex with. Well, think about I just got. blown in the fucking coat closet. But what is the actual method you're using? Just like retaking your brain and thinking of something else instead of the thought that you're thinking? But it's just looking at the situation from a different angle. It's like when you're climbing up a mountain, okay, how are you looking at the situation in a different angle?

Let's stay on the mountain. Actually, I go, I take, go out of my body and I see myself from above and I see the incredible landscape that I'm in. I'm looking how beautiful this is. Look at this gorgeous rock I'm on. Look at the view. Look at what. where I am. Look at the skills I have to get me to this point right here. I'm not scared. I'm

exhilarated at this incredible experience I'm having. You're always in a larger situation than that exact minutia that's causing you to have the emotional reaction. If you just expand the view, think about a larger, think about the week you've had with your partner. Think about the last time you had a great night with her. One of the things that I was able to do is every time I hooked up with another woman, Jane was ecstatic. She was so excited for me. So I would focus on that. I was like she's so excited that if it's when I tell her about that I just you know I got a blowjob in the co closet she is going to fucking love that so that's why I'm talking about reframing I look at the data look at the markers that indicate everything's going great yes there's this one tiny thing

that's causing your emotional reaction but if you put that tiny thing in the larger context of your life is it really that that intense so it's just it's just a matter of getting comfortable with the environment it's a matter of you know with nonmonogony I went into the massive end of the pool from the moment. That's not a good thing. I would never suggest that to anyone. But regardless of where you are in your journey with non-monogamy, there's going to be like, okay, let's go try something. It's going to be uncomfortable. And you have to be okay with being uncomfortable. If you're not okay being uncomfortable, then non-monogamy is probably not right for you. You have to know that sometimes you get burned. Okay, but you wrote a whole book about how you used your methods in extreme

sports to deal with your feelings of jealousy. Like, what would be just the one liner of how you did In all fairness, the extreme sports were the tools I used to stay calm during the situation. The actual growth in non-monogamy was the writing and the introspection. And it's just this idea of staying calm. And how do you stay calm? You just have to practice getting enraged and not reacting. I don't know that you just have to get yourself. The first time you get enraged, you're going to probably blow up because you've never experienced that emotion before.

It's like anything. The more you practice it, the better you get at it. I've only been doing it, and it's just, over time, you start getting normalized to the fear. You get normalized to the adrenaline spikes. Because what happens is your adrenaline just goes through the roof when you're scared or you're jealous or whatever it is. And that adrenaline causes you to lose control. And the only way to not lose control is if you get used to that adrenaline spike. There's no specific trick, do this other than recognize. The hard part is recognizing the spike before. it gets you to say something and do something. That's where you're trying to interrupt that process, right? You see the girl, you see your girl in the bed with three guys, adrenaline spikes. You want to blow up and grab her and rip her off the bed, right? Well, you have to interrupt that. And there's no trick to other than being used to get it. You got to get used to the adrenaline spikes. And the only way to do that is to get yourself into uncomfortable situations. And listen, Monomonon is a beautiful journey if it's what you want, right? If it's not. If it's not, not what you want, you've got no business being it. If it is what you want, then you're going

to have to go get those adrenaline spikes and see what happens and be okay with it. And then have a partner you can discuss it with. I did not have a partner. Yeah. I, you know, we probably didn't even need to harp so much on how to like move the feelings away on your own. Because typically I wouldn't recommend anyone to be with somebody like Jane. You know what I mean? Yeah, agreed. Like if somebody, if you're a partner, yeah, I mean, unfortunately, the biggest thing, and I'm talking to people who are way older a lot of times and both on the same page. So it's very rare that I hear of a partner. Maybe those stories I just don't hear because it doesn't last, you know, you were able to stick it through. But most people in open relationships, one of the key

things is, you know, and I think very important is for you to be able to go to your partner and communicate with them how you feel because what happens if you don't, and I don't know how passive aggressive you were or you became silent or what you did. But when you have all those bad feelings, if you're not telling the person, it's going to come out in other ways. You know what I mean? And so really it's like the, I think it's like maybe not so important to learn how to do that because if you're in a non-monogamous relationship, you should be able to discuss your feelings. I think it's important to not explode. But yes, you should absolutely discuss your feelings. And when I've spoken with women who say, well, can you help me?

My guy is just so jealous. And the first thing I always say is acknowledge that his feeling is real. Exactly. Now, it may not be based in reality, but it is a real feeling. And accept that. that it's tearing him apart. Now, then you can, once you accept that, then you can, then you can discuss, is it valid? Is his jealousy valid? So yeah, I've, I've always said that communication is the number one, is the number one thing you need if you want to, if you want to, but you also need emotional

maturity too. Like I had a guy on who was, he's a big swinger guy and he had like one story after the other where he just fucking flipped out because he got annoyed and he was like thrown out of places, you know, it was just like, and you saw the pattern in his life. Like, this is just a guy that can't deal with his feelings. So, you know, if you can't deal with your feelings, you shouldn't even be trying that anyway, because feelings might come up, but you have to be the type person at least that you're emotionally mature enough to know, okay, I'm having a feeling. This is really terrible. And I'm not going to act like a psychopath in this room in front of everybody and go nuts and start causing problems and punching people. If you are that hot-headed, you know, work on your

feelings first to get them a little bit in control. And then you could go master these. other ones, right? Absolutely. And that's the thing, I always say small steps. Find out and visualize. Like, figure out what's going to tweak you a little bit and push that edge. Go get yourself slightly tweaked with your partner, you know, with a loving partner who knows that you're pushing your boundaries.

And that's the only way to improve. You know, there's this, at the end of the book, this is one C when I'm having a, I hook up with this couple, just me. I'm having a threesome with this couple, an MFM threesome. And we're having this great time in my apartment out west. and as I'm about to come and she's sucking my cock and I say I let her know because I don't know them very well. I don't know if she wants me to come in her mouth. And as I say, I'm coming.

She like slides her mouth all the way down, deeper throat. I have this great orgasm. And I'm sitting there and all of a sudden I notice the room is completely silent. And all of a sudden he explodes at her. How dare you let him come in your mouth? I'm just like they just start screaming. Oh my God. I'm sitting there like I'm trying to have post-argasmic bliss and these two naked people having this

fucking screaming fight in my apartment. Just like, holy shit. But what's funny is I totally recognize myself and that guy. Like I've had those emotions too. It's just don't blow it up. Like that's something they could have talked about tomorrow and they probably should have talked about it the night before. And I don't know if she violated something she agreed not today.

I have no idea. But point being blowing up, God, it feels so good in the moment. It feels so good. And it's so hard not to blow up when you get that emotional spike. But there's nothing good on the other side of that. Yeah, no. And listen, that's a person that would probably blows up at other things, too. That's just somebody that does not know how to regulate their emotions.

And that person, before you go into a non-monogamous relationship, if you are that person, you need to learn how to deal with your feelings first before. Because feelings will come up. It's just your human being. It's just natural. You know, like you did say in the beginning, I got to the point where I was able to turn it around and use it. Like, why don't you talk about like that, the ending when it moved away and then what,

you know, how you used it in your favor? So the pivotal point was with her friend, that that whole jealous experience to me was absolutely the most pivotal point. And from that, once I realized where my jealousy was coming from, and once I was able to say, you know what, let's look at the actual data. Let's look at this relationship I'm having. Let's look at this woman. Let's look at how she interacts with me.

Let's look at how she cares about me. Let's look at the fact that she brings a woman home for me every other week just to have, like, there's so much great data here that suggests I'm having this great life that I started seeing the other sex as I started connecting it all together. And by seeing in what I was hearing about her with other men, I attached that to her being this incredibly sexual person that allowed me to have this incredibly good life. So I started associating lots of really good feelings for me with the sex she was having with other men. And by enforcing that connection over and over again, it got to a point where it was just like,

when I'm thinking of her going out and having sex other men, I'm like, great, she's going to come home and suck my cock or whatever it is. And we're going to go have coffee. I had this great life. And by associating that with her extracurriculars is how, that's how I initially started to get past it. And eventually, I started seeing it as porn. Like, ooh, this is hot porn. Her having sex with someone else, that's fucking hot. And again, but it's a journey.

I had to get past the emotional spikes to get there. But did it ever rear its ugly head again? Or once it was past it, you were past it, you were past it? No. Once I was past, and I want to be clear, this took probably four years. First three, three to four years of our relationship was me working through this stuff. But once I got through that, I was fully on the other side. And now at this point, we're married, we're living together.

We have a very strong relationship. And I think that plays a big partner as well. I felt very, very confident in the relationship. And I saw how much she cared about me. And that's huge. I don't know if you could have an extreme non-and-honous relation like that without feeling the trust of your partner. So that played a big part. And she grew too.

By now she's in her mid-late 30s. So I guess mid-30s by then. It's, I'm sorry, I forgot the question. It wasn't so much a question. It was like how you got past it and used the compersion and used the jealousy like in your favor as a term. It's just, yeah, it was that I started attaching, I started attaching so much of the great things in my life to the sex she was having and realize you can't separate it. It's all part of the same thing. And that made me love it.

And did everything become on the table? Did you ever get to a point where she like she could fuck your friends and tell you about it or she could just fuck anyone and tell you about it and she could fuck you know yeah well yes she could get to put everyone tell me about it but we the the robot not fucking my and listen i'm a person who likes to push boundaries i like pushing boundaries of myself because i learned so much about myself right and so eventually she asked there was a friend of mine she wanted to fuck and i was like he actually looks exactly like me so she's like i can fuck twins we're basically very similar people mistake us for each other all the time and so i thought okay let's and now this is six years into our relationship five years i'm at the

point where I'm at compersion, I'm at the point we're having, I'm fine with everything, but I thought, okay, let's try that. And so we do. We have this great MFM three-sum with him. And unfortunately, it didn't work out well. My fears about what would happen were true. He couldn't handle it. He and I, our friendship got really strained. He didn't know what to do. It really became a problem. So I was like, you know what? That's a good rule. We're keeping it. And we went back to that rule. So it's okay to go past the boundaries. You have to be okay with it and not working out great. And you put the rule back in. And if your partner is going to be once a rule is relaxed, you can never go back, that's not a good way to be. And she was fine with it. She was like, okay, yep, I get it,

no problem. And it all worked out. In the end, it all worked out. He and I are super tight now. we're still great friends and we got back together, but it was really uncomfortable for a while. So I thought that was a good rule to keep in place. Let me ask you this, now that you're a single guy and you haven't been with Jane for a while and you went through that whole experience. Like if you could meet the perfect girl tomorrow, like how would your relationship be after you experience a very open relationship before that you had monogamous relationships in the middle of that you had some threesome with women? Like what kind of relationship is ideal for you now after all of your experience?

As far as, yeah, as far as the, I'll never be monogamous. I'm not saying when it was, listen, it could be that you want to be monogamous. I'm saying like, what do you want now after you've had kind of been there, done that everything? Yeah, I would never, I never want a relationship. like that again in terms of extreme non-monogamy that's that's not i don't find anything interesting in that anymore it was interesting for a while like when we were in sync everything was perfect and we were having sex every week with different people it was kind of fun but i don't want that anymore i i'm

looking for a partner i'm not looking for a monogamous partner but i'm looking for a partner i'm looking definitely for an emotional partner with with flexibility and what that flexibility is i I don't have a good answer for you. I just know I don't want the relationship with Jane, the non-monogamy was the prime directive in our relationship. I don't want a relationship where the prime directive is non-monogamy. I want a relationship where the non-monogamy is kind of a fun little spice part of the relationship that comes in and out now and again.

I don't want it to be the main event. Do you like, I mean, you were going to swinger clubs and swing or parties and stuff, would you like somebody to roll with you like in that world as well? Or could you do without that and all that kind of stuff? if you met the right person. Yeah, I'm not really into the swing of parties. I still go to, Alin, who runs top floor as one of my dearest friends. And so I do go to the top floor parties, but mostly as a voyeur and just to see people I know

and have drinks. I'm not into the sex party scene anymore as a participant. If I met someone who really wanted to do that, I might be able to. But that's not, it's not what I'm interested in anymore. The ultra-casual sex doesn't appeal to me the way it used to. Right now, I really enjoy connected. sex. Well, I enjoy sex with someone that I know at some level, or at least in a recent situation where my partner is one of those people. And I have a deep connection with

her and maybe we have a play thing with us, be it a man for her or a girl for me. Yeah, that's what I was going to ask you out of all the sexual things that you've experienced. You know, some people really love seeing their partner with another man and them getting fuck. Some people love a swap. Some people love, you know, just like sitting there and watching. I mean, what was your favorite thing? And if you could incorporate it. into your a non-monogamous relationship, what would that one thing be? I think, I mean, my favorite thing, I do enjoy a threesome, like, whether it's two men or two women. Okay, that's interesting. I'm straight. When I, two men is just both of us focusing on, on, on the go.

It's actually, it might have been the downfall of Jane and I, because all she wanted was a by, was a bye boyfriend. She could see capable, can't you just try? I'm like, I have tried. I gave it the college try. I gave it the college try. It's just boring to me. I'm not grossed out, but it's just boring. I don't mind having my cock touch other guys if we're doing a double penetration.

But I just, playing with it or having him play with me doesn't turn me on. And she's always very upset. So funny. There's nobody like Jane. There's nobody like Jane. I mean, she's one of a kind. Yeah, no, she was.

I mean, it depends on the person, but I do kind of get around by watching. a girl get fucked from behind and maybe she's sucking my cock while. Yeah, yeah. And I, that is just, that is a thing I really like. I definitely obviously like being with two women. I don't know, any straight men who don't. But that's really fun to me.

Seeing women on women action, when I was younger, it really turned me on. No, it's nice, but it's not a must have or anything like that. But I just want to have a relationship where there's some flexibility to have some playtime. because I think it's fun and it's spicy and can we go out and have sex with, you know, one-on-one without each other? I'm not a no on that. I'm probably a yes on that. Again, it depends on the relationship and the situation.

But if I wasn't allowed to go and have one-on-one sex, as long as we hit threesomes, I'd be fine with that. Okay, last question. If you met the perfect girl for you and she was like, sorry, I'm not interested in sharing you and I'm not interested in girls and I don't want to fuck two guys and I just want to be monogamous, Do you think you could have a non-monogamous relationship after, you know, going through what you went through? Have a monogamous relationship. Yeah, monogamous.

Yeah. I, gosh, I don't think so, but if I met the absolute perfect person. Yeah, perfect girl. I would try. Except with this, I would try. I would say yes. Let me, let's see. I would absolutely try it.

Because, listen, love is, as you get older, you realize how rare deep love is. Yeah. And if I met someone that deep love was a real thing, yeah, of course I'm going to say yes. But do you think you could be monogamous? Were you always monogamous in your previous relationships? And did you have long term like 10-year relationships that you were only with the one person? I mean, I've had a, there's always an occasional threesome now and again, which meant if there was an occasional one, it means it was a possibility. And having that possibility kind of always kept me going.

The problem was I always wanted it more than my partner. So I was always kind of like the one sort of pulling my. partner along to be kinky and it was funny to get into the relationship or Jane where I was the one being pulled. Yeah. So now you know how it feels. Yeah, it's rare you get two partners. Yeah, it's rare you get two partners who are actually exactly at the same level. And so someone's always being pulled and someone's doing the pulling at any one moment. And the question is, do you want to be the one pulling or do you want to be the one being pulled back? Because it's always going to be like that. Okay, well, listen, you mentioned your book. Give a fucking shout out to people who can hear the whole story.

It's super interesting. Plus, people learn a lot from it. So give a shout out. And I will actually, anyone that's driving right now, I will have the link to the episode in the description. So the website for the book is seek the risk. The name of the title of the book is Seek the Risk. You can get on Amazon.

There's an audio book where Jane and I read the book. So you get to hear both of us. So if you're more of an audio book person, it's paper. There's paperback. And there's also electronic Kindle. So seek the risk. net. And all the links are there.

And yeah. You can find me there and send me a note it. Adam at seekderisk.net. I love hearing from readers or listeners. And I've always answer every email. And I've gotten some incredible emails from your listeners for the previous episodes you've done. Kathy and your listeners are amazing. I love you guys. And this book is specifically like geared to this topic. I mean, that's why you are the person talking about this. This is about jealousy and non-monogamy and dealing with it and working through it and all that kind of good stuff. And that's what your book is all about. Right. So anyway, looking for this topic and information. information on this topic, that's what you're going to get more of, even more of in the book. Yeah, there's a lot of masculinity subjects, themes in the book as well, because it was jealousy and masculinity. Those were the two things that were really, I was forced to confront in a way I had never been forced to confront in my life before with this relationship with Jane.

And it opened my eyes to my own masculinity, it opened my eyes to female sexuality, open my eyes to jealousy and emotions and connections. So it was, it was, and I'm very clear at the in the book, I would not have traded as painful as the journey was. I learned so much about myself, I wouldn't have traded it for anything. It was the greatest experience in my life. Yeah, I feel like everyone should look at all experiences like that at the end of the day, right? Because that's why they do come into our life. That is the point. Because what else would be the point of all of that, if not for, you know, and I think the people that don't look at things like that, they're just like victims are whole life. And life's too short to be that way. You know what I mean?

Life is too short. Yeah. And we come out fantastically better versions of ourselves. You're through hard things. And that's how to do it. Yeah, sometimes when I'm talking to, even sex therapist, and I'm very surprised at them like, and I bring up like a bad relationship thing. They'll be like, oh, my God, I'm so sorry. I'm like, why sorry?

Like all, even my worst boyfriends were like angels that came into my life that taught me something so great about myself. And I think every single one of them, and I think, sorry, you just got to look at your life that way. I'm not talking about if you get cancer or these terrible things and stuff. You know what I mean? But these other kinds of things like relationships and stuff, like they're really here to teach you and grow

and you bring the perfect person in, even if they're the worst scumbags on the planet, they're there for a reason and they're teaching you something. Sorry, it is what it is. You know, it's like... It's true. Yeah. You preach to the choir here, Kathy. Yeah, yeah, there you go. All right, so I'll put a link to your book in the description. Thanks for calling in again and talking about this because it was such an interesting episode that I just had on and I have an excellent episode coming out with another guy that has jealousy in their thing. And this is like a big topic. And I was just like, oh, we should talk about more about this because

so many guys responded to his episode and the, part where he talked about jealousy because so many guys rewrite their stories and kind of not really talk about it. Even though I ask that question a lot, it's always like, oh, it was fine, you know, but I think maybe more guys had those kinds of feelings and they don't talk about it. It's harder for a guy to be vulnerable and feel like, oh, I'm jealous. You know, because all that stuff is like, quote, unquote, weak. And so I think, you know, a lot of guys would want to keep that shit to themselves, but that's the worst thing you could do. But they could read your book and, you know, work through it. Yeah. I mean, again, I've gotten great emails from guys who said,

thank you so much for writing this. Yeah, I love that. Not the only one who's had these emotions. And I really, I love hearing stories like that. It's awesome. Yeah, great. I love getting emails from readers. Yeah, awesome.

So email Adam. Don't email me because I love, like, like, I really like to help people. You know what I mean? And I think you're really helping people with this episode. So thanks, Adam. Thanks so much for calling in again. Of course. Bye.

Okay, I just want to tell you before you go that my book, it's called Strictly Anonymous Confession, Secret Sex Lives of Total Strows. Strangers is now available not only in paperback and e-book, but you can pre-order the audiobook. It's still not going to be out until August 25th, but you can pre-order it. The book is basically 17 different stories taken from my show. I kind of picked one story from each category that I talk about on my show. Like there's a hot wife story.

There's a cuck queen story. There's a cuck story. There's a gang-bang girl story. Like I said, 17 stories, and they're all told in the third person, and they're all true. I took the interview and rewrote it in the third person, and I wouldn't really call it like a total erotica book. Think like penthouse letters. It's more direct. It's not so over the top like erotica.

I don't really like that kind of vibe, right? But these are true stories. 17 of them. They're really short chapters, easy read. You could read, you know, one or two, and then skip a row. round. You could read the whole book. It's available in eback format, paperback format, and finally, the audio book is available coming out August 25th, but you could pre-order it now. And if you buy my book in any format or pre-order it, I will throw in a complimentary link to my Discord.

My Discord does not disappoint, okay? There's no way you get into my Discord any other way than getting the link from me. Okay, I give it to people who buy my book. There's tons of people in there. shares content with each other and that's what you get to do there you can post your own pictures and videos there's tons of channels we have lots of contests where you can win a lot of money it's a super fun place to be it's a total strictly anonymous community and you will love it i will be giving anyone who buys my book access to my discord it's private like i said all you got to do is email me a screenshot of your purchase whether you did the audiobook the ebook or the paperback sent it to me at Strictly Anonymous Podcast at gmail.com.

That's Strictly Anonymous Podcasts at Gmail.com. And I will send you the link to Discord. So anyway, thanks so much for tuning in. This is the Strictly Anonymous Podcast.