Strictly Anonymous Confessions - 1339 - Emotional Intelligence in the Bedroom w/Heather Shannon

Episode Date: January 17, 2026

Heather Shannon called in to talk all about emotional intelligence in the bedroom. Tune in to hear her explain all the details, including how emotional intelligence directly impacts desire, why you don’t get emotional security without taking risks, how men and women experience emotions very differently. the common emotional patterns that can ruin things in the bedroom, the five emotional patterns that negatively affect libido, why holding space for someone else’s emotions matters even if you don’t agree with them, and how and why Heather decided to become a sex therapist, plus a whole lot more. You can find more about her here: https://heathershannon.co GET A COPY OF THE STRICTLY ANONYMOUS BOOK! Strictly Anonymous Confessions: Secret Sex Lives of Total Strangers. A bunch of short, super sexy, TRUE stories. GET YOUR COPY HERE: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://amzn.to/4i7hBCd⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ To see HOT pics of my female guests + hear anonymous confessions + get all the episodes early and AD FREE, join my Patreon! It's only $7 a month and you can cancel at any time. You can sign up here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.patreon.com/StrictlyAnonymousPodcast⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and when you join, I'll throw in a complimentary link to my private Discord! To join SDC and get a FREE Trial! click here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.sdc.com/?ref=37712⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ or go to SDC.com and use my code 37712   Want to be on the show? Email me at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠[e-mail]⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ or go to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://www.strictlyanonymouspodcast.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and click on "Be on the Show." Want to confess while remaining anonymous? Call the CONFESSIONS hotline at 347-420-3579. All voices are changed.   Sponsors: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠PikaVibe.com/Strictly⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ — Click to get $15 OFF your purchase ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://vb.health⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ — To get 10% off DRIVE Boost by VB Health use code: STRICTLY ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.quince.com/strictlyanon⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ — For premium quality Quince clothing plus FREE shipping and 365 day returns! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://beducate.me/pd2540-anonymous⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠— Click here to take the quiz and  get your personalized roadmap to sexual happiness ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bluechew.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ — Get 10% OFF your first month of Bluechew GOLD! Use code: STRICTLYANON⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Follow me! Instagram  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/strictanonymous/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ X  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://twitter.com/strictanonymous?lang=en⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Website  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://www.strictlyanonymouspodcast.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Everything else: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://linktr.ee/Strictlyanonymouspodcast⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Or just go to the description and click on the link. Okay, today I have on Heather Shannon. She's a certified sex therapist. I've had a lot of sex therapists on my show because I do sexual health Saturdays. She had a whole thing on her website about emotional intelligence. I'm like, let's talk about that on the show because I think that that's like a good topic. And, you know, and it's something that is super important. We talk about the method that she goes by that she was talking.

taught when it comes to emotional intelligence. She gives a lot of information about the issues that people can have and how it can affect people and how it all comes back to sex because changing your sex life if you're in a rut is all about communication and how can you communicate if you're not really that if you're overly sensitive or you're reactive or you know you get you get angry or you don't want to fucking talk. You know, so we talk about that kind of stuff. She's super interesting. She talks about why she became a sex therapist and her journey as well as, you know, what she does for clients. She has a website where she offers her courses that we talk about here as well as coaching. She gives all that information at the end.

It will also be in the description. But I'm going to get right to and be right back on with Heather Shannon. Hi, Heather Shannon, right? Welcome to the strictly anonymous podcast. How are you today? Thank you. super excited to be here. I've listened before, so it's fun to be on it. Oh, I love it. Well, you're here. You're a certified sex therapist. And I was like, you know, I've talked to a lot of,

I just started like a whole sexual health Saturday series. And it's not just like physical health, right? It's mental health too. So I've had a lot of sex therapist on. And I saw that you do offer some courses and stuff on emotional intelligence. And I'm like, oh, let's like do that for our topic today. You do have a podcast of your own, right? Where And it's called Ask a Therapist where you do answer a lot of sex therapist questions. And maybe we'll get to some in this call, right? But like I thought that would be like kind of interesting to talk about. Because you said something.

Absolutely. Because don't you think, I think you said something before we started taping that was really interesting. Say what you said that. You think like that's like needed, right? For sex, for good sex. It is. So the reason I developed this emotional intelligence course is because couples would

show up to do my coaching program with me. and I'd realize, oh, they don't know how they're feeling. They're not in tune with their body in that way to express it well, or they are not able to manage their own emotions well enough to properly, like, listen and hold space for their partner. And so it was like, if we can't do that, it's going to be really hard to communicate about sexual fantasies without people just kind of getting triggered

or, you know, taking things personally and escalating. So I was like, there's really a foundational. of emotional intelligence that's required for people to get to the spicy, fun, amazing, connective sex that they want. Yeah, totally. I mean, communication is all about, I think, you know, the way you communicate is all about, like, how emotionally intelligent you are, okay, for sure. I definitely have noticed as I've gotten older and gotten better, you know, I could

communicate a lot better than when I was younger. I mean, look, think about it, right? So, but a lot of times people don't, you know, really, and, I don't. you know, know, like, if they have issues. I mean, I know I tend to be like a word I call is like reactive, right? I could become reactive. And I hate that about myself. It's like the one last thing I haven't really worked on that. I'm always like, I need a therapist for that, right? But I also know though that like you mentioned a lot, I think that there's a lot of different things that could be in play here, right? For people, like, could you go through the different types of things? Maybe

people have issues with like I, like I said, I copped to the fact that I think like I could be reactive and that's not cool, right? And what are the other things that people could be? for sure so yeah and i'm trained in gotman couples counseling so a lot of what i'm going to say is coming from the gotman institute which is research based which i love right like they've studied relationships for decades and so one of the things they talk about that i see with people a lot is defensiveness so this can overlap with the reactivity that you just mentioned yeah but with the defensiveness if someone's like hey i would really love it if you know you spent more time going down on me in bed someone would be like what you don't you're am i not doing it right you know

And then all of a sudden you're taking, and then you're like, how do you have that conversation if that's how you're taking it? So learning to not take anything personally, actually, is quite a big skill. And it's something I was not good at. So that's one that I've worked on, you know, over a decade ago I was in a relationship where at one point he said to me, I feel like I can't say that much to you because you're so sensitive. I was like, oh no. I think I've said that to other people. I was like, I don't want it to be where, you know, we can't have communication because I'm unable to kind of take things well.

So that in a good way really prompted me to work on that. It's not that I'm not sensitive anymore, but I'm able to take it a little bit more in stride so we can have the conversation, you know. So that's one, one that I see really commonly because I work a lot with people that are either struggling with lower libido or there's just mismatched libido in the relationship. is resentment. Yeah. So I see a lot and people don't often realize that it's there and it's getting in the way of their sex lives. So once we kind of get into things, they might be like, oh, well, you know, they did cheat

on me a few years ago. And so I still don't trust them and I'm angry about that. I'm like, okay, that's significant. You know, if you're still holding on to resentment over that, if you're not feeling like you want to be vulnerable with this person, sex is a vulnerable thing. thing, right? Whether, whether you're having like wild crazy kinky sex or if you're having very sensual lovemaking sex, either way, there's a vulnerability level there. And if you don't feel safe to do that, then it's going to be hard to have the connection you want. Yeah, it's all about

communication. I mean, who wants to put something on the table that they're into if they're with a partner that they don't know how they're going to react, you know, like that's the scariest thing, I think is like to have someone look at you and be like, ew, like, what did you say, you know, like it'd make you feel weird for what you're into. And that could happen. But I could see like the resentment. He doesn't even need to be like that they cheated on you. It could be.

And it happens a lot with marriages after so long. You know, he's not, he never hasn't given me a compliment in 10 years. She doesn't like blow me ever anymore, you know. And they're like, it's so pissed and they don't understand it. You like you said, right? Right. They disagree with parenting style or think I'm too clinging with our child or, you know, when I did open up about some things, I felt invalidated.

and shut down seven years ago. You know what I mean? Sometimes we're holding on to these things. Most of the time ago. I'm sorry. People have a real need to just like fucking sweep things under the carpet, Ron. Don't you think?

I mean, it's why you have a business. It is. I mean, it's almost like a primary thing with humans. I'm like, we are so good at denial. Totally.

You know? Yeah. My favorite saying is know thyself because it's like, it's so important and it sounds so simple. but so many people can't look in the fucking mirror. They just cannot, you know, and they don't want to. And even stuff like this, they don't want to go there. Because what if you go there and find out you fucking hate your partner?

Like, then what do you do? You know what I mean? Like it's but if you go there, you could resolve it and then you could dig your partner again. But like, you know, so. Yeah. That's a good transition to another part of emotional intelligence. Perfect. Yeah.

So a lot of times that you're right. That's the root of it is that we're afraid. We're afraid that our security is going to be threatened in some way. We're going to lose our relationship. We're not sure if we're going to be okay. We might not like ourselves anymore if we face something head on. And so the way, there's a couple things. One, we need to develop the emotional bravery.

Two, we want to develop the internal security so that we know we're going to be okay even if we take a risk and it doesn't work out and we kind of fall on our face. Right. So kind of like worst case scenario, even if it happened, you're still going to be. going to live. Yes. Let's say you've finally expressed your partner like, listen, the reason I've had low libido is because I am carrying this resentment. And what if they're kind of like, screw you? Why have you been carrying this for 10 years? You should be over this by now. And then you're like, oh my gosh, my partner is not a safe space. Maybe, maybe I can't be in this relationship. And it all falls apart. If you know,

okay, yes, I'm going to be sad, but I know how to feel my feelings. I know how to take care of myself, I'm not going to abandon myself, regardless of how other people show up for me, and therefore I know I'm going to get through it. That security in yourself allows you to take those risks in the relationship. And you don't get emotional intimacy without taking risks. Oh, no, I know. I used to be very commitment-phobic when I was younger. And I really never understood it until like I went through real hard times having a child.

I went massive infertility. So I failed millions of times over and over and over. And it was something that I had. committed to so hardcore and I failed. But I have to tell you, it was like the best thing that ever happened to me because when I realized that I could do that and fail and be fine and move on and whatever, you know, and have the rug pulled from under me and still fucking live, I was like, it kind of cured me. It was like what I needed. You know, my biggest fear was failure. Failure, right? But like, I felt so much that I got fucking used to it and realize I survived.

Not only did I survive, it was actually really good at surviving through it and fine. So like, you know, I could handle anything. And I think that that deep-seated fear does, like, is what's going on with, like, fear of commitment or something. It is that, right? Yes, I've had some of that, too. Like, part of me is, like, who hasn't had fear of commitment? I know, right? Because it's scary, especially once you've had your heartbroken, you know, in any way, it's kind of like, it's, it is tough.

It is a little bit scary. But I do think exactly like you just said, that's how we've been. build resilience. And when we know we're resilient, when we know we're resourceful, when we know we're going to support ourselves, it creates this confidence. We're like, well, shit, if I got through that, I can get through anything. Exactly. Like, even if it all goes to shit, you're still going to be, you're going to be okay. Right. So why not, like, jump off the fucking cliff? Okay, I'm going to tell you about Pika vibe. They sell sex toys. And I am going to recommend my new favorite sex toy by Pika It is called the Flora Pro Licking Rose Toy, okay?

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Exactly. Like, even if it all goes to shit, you're still going to be, you're going to be okay. Yeah. Right. So why not, like, jump off the fucking cliff? I know. It's still scary. I want to validate for people listening.

Yes, it is still scary. Yes. Vulnerability is inherently scary. But the thing that I think people miss a lot is that not being vulnerable is also a risk. I think in their mind, they're like, This is the safe path. Yeah, I love that. This is the safe path because we just won't rock the boat.

Things are okay. We're at least not fighting. We're not going to rock the boat. But then guess what happens? Those couples just have more and more topics that they're not talking about over time because they're avoiding them and burying their heads in the sand. And then they lose the emotional intimacy. And then the sex life follows when you lose the emotional intimacy.

And then it's become an elephant in the room. And there's just a real undertone of avoidance. It's the opposite of. intimacy. So it's maybe a slower path to eroding the intimacy than like having a brave conversation. But the thing is the brave conversation at least has a good chance of building intimacy and making you stronger. Yeah. I mean, it only takes one person to change the game, right? One thing. And I've seen it so many times on my show where someone brings up a fantasy, they're into or whatever. And the domino effect of how it changed their life is major. And then also

what you said about like lack of community communication, then. ruins the intimacy. And I see the opposite on my show a lot of times. Like a lot of times people that are in the lifestyle because they are forced to over communicate about everything because it is way more vulnerable, right? You're fucking other people. You're watching them. So they're just talking, talking, talking. And they're so, they feel so much closer because of it. And that's like, that just goes to show. Like, you don't have to go fuck other people and put yourself in that position to get there. But it's all about talking more and communicating. That's the real intimacy. that, right? Yep, there's, there's no way around it. We all have to work on the communication.

And I, if anything, I probably tend to be an over communicator. But that can also have its downside where people are like, Heather, will you lay off? You know what I mean? Especially guys. Especially guys. I mean, if you do this course, right, it has to be different, right? I do believe men and women are wired differently emotionally, correct? Like, could you explain the differences without being like, I mean, I think I don't, like, don't you think that that's a real thing? On average, yes, I do. I think there's definitely exceptions. Like, I work with a lot of guys who are sensitive guys who are more of the communicator in their relationship.

Right. One of my ex-boyfriends, that was part of why their marriage ended. Before he met me was because he wanted more communication from her. So, I mean, it's like there's definitely, we can talk about the averages and the norms. Yes. Women probably communicate more. We're socialized to be more. relational than men are.

Men are maybe socialized to be more like career and achievement focus. It's evening out a lot in society. Yes, for sure. Things are changing. Women are like earning as much. They're kind of getting more college degrees. So things are shifting. We're in like a weird place right now, I feel like with gender and roles and nobody

knows what to do. But yeah, I also think just hormonally, yeah, women are, we have different hormone balances. we often are more prone to depression. There's different issues. And so I think that our emotions as women tend to be. So again, not making blanket statements, people. But on average, more on the surface, right?

We're more likely to cry. Even people who are trans men and have gone on testosterone are like, oh, I cry left now. Oh, please. I ask those questions to my trans people all the time. You've been both, how is it different? When they are a girl, they think more in circles, they overthink. They're more sensitive, cry more. It's a real fucking thing.

It is a real fucking thing. So I think we do need to realize that. And I think a lot of it comes with learning how to hold space for the women in our life, right? Like not to pathologize their emotions and to validate them. And I think the important thing is because oftentimes guys are more logical. And they're like, okay, but this is so illogical. You know, like, why do I? She's just being so dramatic.

Yes, let her be dramatic. Understand her. Like the emotions actually have their own form of. logic, right? So I do internal family systems therapy, and so there's a lot of different types of parts is what we call them. So we have the parts, like you mentioned the failure one. So we have a set of parts that are typically exiled. Like, ooh, these feel particularly painful. So let's just push them into the dark basement corner of the psyche. So we don't have to feel that. So there's a logic in that. Nobody wants to feel pain, right? Yeah. And then we've got a set of parts that are

manager parts. And so they're trying to protect us. And they do it in a proactive way. So like, hey, I'm going to start a podcast, right? Or hey, let's work on our sex life. They're goal oriented. Hey, let's book appointment with a therapist and work on this emotional intelligence thing. Awesome, right? But that also creates sort of a positive stress. Like, oh, I have a goal and now I have to commit myself to it. Now I have to show up and actually do the work. But we're trying to positively change our lives and we're trying to proactively prevent pain in that way. Yeah. The other type of part is called a firefighter part. And so the firefighter parts also are trying to help, but these are the ones that get a really bad rap. Because you can imagine it like, like there's a house burning down,

right? It's like your emotional world has been shaken like a snow globe. The house is burning down. And the firefighter part comes with the fire hose and puts the fire out. So the really good news is nobody dies in the emotional fire. The bad news is, you know, the house got really wet and now you have water damage and mold issues. So the firefighters will, they might try to help you by drinking too much alcohol, right? They might try to help you by avoiding all of your emotions. So they have a really good intention. And they actually, right, they're still preventing the house from burning down,

but there's unwanted side effects of those parts. Right. And the bottom line is that all of our parts need love and they need love from our self-energy, which is who we really are. It's like our higher consciousness, basically. And so they need that calm presence and they need to know, hey, even though I'm acting out and smoking cigarettes and drinking too much

and avoiding all my feelings, that you still love me and accept me. And it's that relationship between the self-energy and the emotional part that actually helps the part calm down and shift into a healthier, more functional role. But it's like by understanding the emotion, and their own unique logic were able to create more harmony in the system.

Yeah, that makes sense. Now, I just want to ask you something really quick that I read a long time ago that was like a study or some guy said this it was the most fascinating thing and it made so much sense to me and this is not guys, okay? You know, because like, I don't know,

there's a lot of times in life where you're like talking a guy and he's like acting a certain way and he's like, I don't know what the fuck you're talking about. Like he doesn't even know why he's mad or where he's coming from. And I used to just like think guys

are like fucking liars, you know? And then I read this guy, No, but then there was like the psychologist or therapist. Like it was a famous person. I forget who it was. But he said like the reason why guys will feel upset but they don't know, like they tell you they're not or they don't know where it's coming from. Because when they were young, and this is changing like you said, right?

But like, you know, people at my age in their 50s, when they were younger, they were taught not to have emotions, right? So they had to like fucking shut it down. So that connection is not there. So when they say they don't know and they're not lying. They really don't know. They are not connected to their feelings. we talk ad nauseum about it as women, right?

With our women friends, with ourselves, with our parents, you know. So we know why we're fucking mad. We know why we're tired. We know why we're acting out. But when guys say they don't know or they act like, what the fuck are you talking about? They really don't know. And it really changed my life. Correct.

Because I always thought they're like such liars. It's like, no, they don't know. They really don't know. They're not lying. Yeah. You know? No, you're right. They're not lying.

And I mean, I have a younger brother. So, yeah, I at least got to witness kind of how. people interacted with him about emotions and and how it was a little bit different. It did feel like it was more okay for me to be sensitive than it was for him. Even though I think my parents were pretty good about it. But yeah, but yeah, it's definitely different. And so I do feel like men get screwed over in this way. Like this is one aspect of the patriarchy that really harms men is, first of all, they're still humans. Of course they have the emotions. Right. That's what I mean. We all come out crying like big babies. Okay. No different. No different. I know. But then they're like not allowed

to. Then they have to get cut off. But then they wind up in relationships, often with women. Or even if they're with another man, he probably wants you to communicate some things to him. So then it's like, okay, great. So you guys conditioned out all of my emotional expression, but now I like need it to have a successful relationship. Yeah. Yeah. And it's hard. Yeah. Totally. I think that they get a bad rap. I have a son and I'm a single mom. I had a child on my own. So like I, he doesn't get that. Stop crying. Don't do that. Like, you know, like and I do see it though. Yeah. I do. see it though when I'm on the playground with the dad you know there is a sort of a thing you know where boys with crying and my son's only nine and I see

people saying like that kind of thing to them so it is something that happens you know because of boys and listen it like in girls like I was always a very alpha girl I'm very fucking opinionated I do what I want I don't really listen I never wanted to cook and clean for a guy or get married and I was look down on too right so we have like we're like you know

so it's like you know they are the there are those roles that we put people into for sure. Yeah, there are. Yeah, and it fucks up the whole thing that we're talking about, which is this emotional intelligence thing. So like when people come to you, like a couple, is this like typically like what you will work on first just to see like where the issues are? Because most likely this is what they have to deal with first. Or let's pretend that this is. Yeah. What happens then? Yeah. So if they're kind of like, hey, our sex life is suffering. we're missing some emotional intelligence. Usually what I've discovered is people fall into one of five different patterns.

So I actually made a quiz for like why people are stuck in a sex, right? Oh, I like that. Yeah, people want to take it. It's free. It's at the better bedroom.com. So the five results that people could get, and these are based on what I see in my practice, is the split path. So I see that one a lot when one person wants more non-monogamy than the other person

or one person wants more kink than the other person. And they're kind of like, we love each other so much. We've been together a long time. Maybe someone just revealed a fetish or something like that. And they're like, I don't know how we feel about this. Or maybe something happened where they started dabbling in non-monogamy and one loves it and one is not so sure. So that's kind of a split path. A really common one is burnout that I see.

And I see especially with women where they are just busting their butt working and taking care of kids and they're such a giver. Maybe sometimes they're taking care of like aging parents as well. And they just have like nothing left to give. You know, they're just like, in theory, they maybe would want sex, but like physically and how they're feeling. And then also add in like pari menopause or menopause and hormones. And it's just there's, yeah.

My heart goes out to the people who are feeling that way, you know? Yeah, yeah. It's hard. Okay. Let's get real. Guys. Sex drive. matters. And the truth is it can wax and wane depending on what's going on in your life or how you're

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daily use. So if you're looking to naturally enhance your libido and sexual desire, then you need to get yourself some drive boost by VB Health. All you got to do is visit VB.combe. Health and use code strictly for 10% off. That's VB.com. Health. Use code strictly for 10% off or just go to the description and click on the link. and they're such a giver. Maybe sometimes they're taking care of like aging parents as well. And they just have like nothing left to give. You know, they're just like,

in theory they maybe would want sex, but like physically and how they're feeling. And then also add in like pari menopause or menopause and hormones. And it's just there's, yeah. My heart goes out to the people who are feeling that way. You know? Yeah. It's hard.

So that's a common pattern that I see. I also get a set of people, that I call the awkward initiators. So the awkward initiators are interesting because often the libido is there, right? They actually might both have the interest in sex. However, they maybe grew up kind of conservatively in the church or just in a, you know, community that wasn't very sex positive. Maybe they didn't have sex until they got married. Maybe they just never talked about sex before. So initiating is sort of this daunting thing then like, like, hey, we know it. it's fun once we get to this sex part, but like, do you want to or, oh, I don't want to pressure you, but then like, oh, but are you sure you're in the mood? And there could be a lot of like overthinking there. And I also see this one, if people have been exposed to porn too early or had a parent who was very dysfunctional with their sex life. So, yeah, sex kind of takes on a lot of

anxiety in those cases. And porn, I can't even tell you the, I'm going to remind me at the end to tell you about this poor guy that got wired into porn at a young age of what he got wired into it. I'm like, oh my God, my God. It's like you were like hypnotized into being into something that's so fucked up because you found it online. You know what I mean? It really is a real problem. It's really sad. You know what I mean? I know. So yeah, so that's a common pattern. Self-censorship is another one. So sometimes I have clients that come in and they're like, oh, I have low libido. I'm like, okay, great. Let's find out more about that. And what are some of the causes? And then they're like, oh, well, I do think about sex.

I just don't tell my partner. I was like, wait, wait, wait. How does that work? I'm like, well, that's a whole different issue. So I'm like, why are you not telling your partner? Well, I don't know. I just feel like the guy's supposed to initiate or I just feel like, you know, too vulnerable.

Like we were just talking about, you know. It's like, oh, but what if they don't want sex with me? Or, you know, what if this makes me sort of slutty that I actually want sex? And it's kind of like, well, it's a lumpy program. So that's the self-censoring people. You know, they're wanting sex. They're just kind of scared to express sexually. And maybe they like reading erotica, romance novels, listening to your podcast.

But they're like, I can't tell my partner what I'm into, though. Like, that's so vulnerable. So I think there's a lot of, like, fear around that and what it means if they're a fully sexual being. Oh, yeah, for sure. I've heard it all. I've heard all the stories. I love getting the story from the beginning.

like how did it change? A lot of times like I talked to a guy yesterday who is a cross jester and he didn't reveal it to his wife over time. But they like it in between him like he revealed a lot of different things. A, that he was into cross as thing. B, that he was like into guys and, you know, all these things. But it had in between, they were years that went through. Yeah.

This is kind of very real life. Like it can take that long. Like, you know, for him to sort of put his whole self on the table, you know, crazy. Yes. I've had clients in that a deck situation that you just described where they're working with me basically to kind of gain the courage to be able to be more transparent with their partner and lay the groundwork for that. But it's hard. Especially when you're, when you've been with someone. Yeah, I think it's actually way harder to tell somebody that you've been with for a long time,

something new that you never did because they're going to be like, what the fuck? Like, who are you? Have you been doing this behind my back? You know, then telling somebody, you know, when you're first meet them like the good the good the bad and the ugly right so uh you know and it takes a lot of bravery but let me tell you the the people that come on my show and i'm sure people that you know that actually do pull the trigger and get to the point where they could do this and maybe they need help from someone like you you know it changes their whole fucking life because living a secret life whatever that is if your fantasies is like so daunting and exhausting and then and also living a great life we're having the best sex ever is the opposite of that you know right yes and

And I think just like the freedom, you know? Part of my own journey is that I think I was very repressed when it came to sex and uncomfortable. And I saw some people who were examples of being so comfortable in their skin and so comfortable talking about it. And I was like, ooh, I want that. I want that for myself. Oh, yeah.

How did I not ask you why you became a sex therapist and what your deal is? Was that your story? Yeah, that's really part of it. And it's funny doing this work. I think I realize more of my story. I go. But yeah, I was raised Catholic and I was just pretty uncomfortable, even like getting changed in front of my mom or my aunt or something. I would just be like, don't look at me. And there was this funny story where my mom, I was probably like 12 and my mom was like, we should

get you like a training bra or something. And she was like, are you at 34A? And I was like several feet away from her in the like Intimates Department at a Coles. And I was so mortified that she like said this so that other people could potentially hear. And I like ran away to the other side of the store and pretended like she wasn't my mom and I didn't know her. Of course. So I was not someone who just grew up like so sex positive and comfortable. But I did, I had some friends along the way who kind of showed me like, it's okay to talk about masturbation. And everyone probably does it. And it's okay to go like get sex toys with your friends when you're in college. And you know, then I went to a sex toy store that did some work.

And I remember one of the people that worked there was just so at ease. And I was, I was like, wow, like, that's amazing. So that was part of it. And then I also think when I had a relationship end in my early 30s and the sex life had kind of soured in that relationship and my needs weren't being met and he was kind of shutting down when we tried to communicate about it, I was like, ooh, I'm free. And now I can like explore some things and try some things. And so that exploration and then some clients.

So I had a client who was a cross-dresser and who was in a committed relationship. It was like the exact scenario we were just talking about. And then I had a client who was drinking and working on her relationship with alcohol. And there were some tie-ins there with sex where there had been some kind of blackout moments or some, you know, questionable moments where maybe consent was not fully involved. I've had more than one client in both of these situations. I quit drinking at 34 because I was a blackout drinker and did a lot of acting out sexually when I was drunk. Yeah, okay. Wow. So there you go. Yeah. So yeah. So I think like seeing like these are really important things. I think sex gets a bad rap for being superficial or just like titillating. But it's so much of our identity. It's so much of our self expression. And it affects our mental health and safety, you know, like both of these clients actually, there were. some substance abuse involved. And one of them in particular, I was like, he is putting himself

in some very dangerous situations because he's uncomfortable with his sexuality. Yeah, which is so sad. And that's one thing that I think is changing. Like I saw somebody tweet something like retweet, oh, well, look at all these weird gender things and everyone's more by and whatever and it's more than ever and it's because they're hypnotized. I'm like, no, it's just because it's more accepted so people could be who the fuck they are and they don't care. I'm talking to 55 year old that trust me, they were sucking dick back then too and they just weren't going to be a part of your survey and say yes. Okay. It's no different. Okay. It's just they're allowed to be because the younger generation isn't judgmental. Right. Like, and it's more accepted and that really changes the game. But, you know, there's still so many people alive that didn't grow up in this era. Right. Like I feel like my son's going to be very different when he gets older. But there's still so many people alive today that grew up in times where all these kinds of things they have to keep to themselves. So you were like a regular therapist talking to people. and like this guy copped to you that he was like into cross-boxing and stuff. Yes, exactly.

So this is before I was officially a sex therapist. And so I had kind of gone through my own journey with the breakup and I had these couple of clients and I was like, this is important. This is something I think I'm good at holding space for people. I think I'm pretty naturally non-judgmental and just want to help people find what's authentic for them. So I always say like, I don't care if you're like a very prolific sex worker or if you're a celibate none.

And let's find what genuinely works for you. No, and I really think that you must have seen what I have seen sometimes when people call into my show and then I get emails from them like, oh my God, thank you so much. And you're working with these people so much more intensely. So it's like times 100. But like you said before, like, oh, people think sex is so superficial or something. But when you are talking to these people that have these hangups or they're living these secret lives or have these fetishes and they could finally talk about it or feel okay and

they've been hiding their whole life, it is like major for them to have. a place, like you said, you held a place for them. And they, you know, they felt comfortable telling you and you weren't judgmental. So it is super important work that you're doing because I have a Fetish Friday episode and I've been doing it in the 11 years that I've been, you know, doing my podcast and I've never, you know, it's not like it doesn't get, my Fetish Friday episodes don't get as much as like my hot wiping episodes. But I always feel like there, you know, people need this kind of content because every time I put something out there with a fetish, like I get so many emails of other people like, oh, thank you so much. Like I finally feel not alone.

blah blah. You know, it's a big thing. I love that. And that's so nice that you realize, hey, even if these aren't the most downloaded, they're really changing people's lives. Yeah, people need to hear it. Yeah, they do. Yeah, it's really great. So that's what, so you started to just see like that stuff. And so then you decided to focus on the sex. Yes. Interesting. Yeah. So then I decided, okay, this is a commitment, but I'm going to do it. So, because it's like a at least 18 months process once you're already a licensed therapist to become a certified sex therapist through asex. So it was a lot. But it was fun. I met really cool people. And, you know, I love that about my podcast too. Like, I just get to meet some of the coolest people

and learn from them while helping others. So yeah, that it's been a really cool journey for me. Yeah. And then why the emotional intelligence is it because you were always like dealing with that and you're right? Because you were like a regular therapist, right? And what is that domain? Yes. You said was a domen method? Like what was the method you talked about? Could you explain that? The Gottman method? Oh, Gottman. I don't know why I said Domen. I don't know. So the Gottman Institute, so it's John and Julie Gottman. They're a couple. They're both therapists and researchers. I think John is more of the researcher and author. They've written over 40 books. Yeah. It's a lot. And they train about half the couple's counselors in the country. So yeah, they, I think some of their communication pieces are so essential. So one of the whole modules in my emotional intelligence course is Gottman communication. And just to give people, I'll give people kind of what I think is the most impactful approach that they can do with their communication. It's what they call the softened startup. So the idea is from their research, they found that the first few minutes of a conversation, like three minutes, predict with 90% accuracy if it's going to turn into a fight or not.

And so if we can eliminate 90% of fights by just being focused on the three minutes, like please people do it, you know? So basically you want to approach somebody instead of being like, hey, like, why do you never take out the trash or like, oh, you know, or like, hey, like you're really not meeting my sexual needs. It's so annoying. Instead, it could be like, hey, you are obviously the most important person in my life. And I want us to have the best sex we can possibly imagine. Like, would you be open to just talking about what works for each of us? Right. And then you're just, yes, like you're you're stating something positive.

So, so ways to do this off and start up, state something positive at the beginning, say what your positive intention is, give your partner a compliment. And then it's preventing them from being defensive. Now, some people are going to be defensive anyways. Let that be their issue is my advice. Because you don't want to get to the point where you're walking on eggshells trying to say something perfectly. Right. You want to like, be considerate.

Say something positively. But don't walk on eggshells. That's kind of where that line is. And there's no but in this conversation, right? Like, it's not a compliment sandwich, is it? Like, where you're starting off like, you know, right? It doesn't sound like that. It just sounds like all positive, figure out a way to make it sound all positive, right?

There's no like da-da-da-da-da-da-complement, but blah, blah, blah, which I think sometimes people take that approach. And I don't think that works as passive aggressive. No. I agree with you. I know. Maybe it softensable a little bit, but I agree. Like, just say what you want to say. but yeah I think with bringing things up people sometimes go wrong because they're so attached to an

outcome so they kind of enter the conversation with an agenda and so if it's like I need to get my partner to change this or that that's not going to go well and that's not going to lend itself well to the softened startup so usually what I am guiding people to do is just get the topic brought up and then once you're in conversation and sharing freely you'll be able to kind of get to the point that you want to get to. Yeah, yeah. And listen, if like say we're at the point where they're just talking about sex finally and they want to bring up stuff like, there's so many great like little books and wheeze and apps and stuff that like prompt conversation, you know, and that's really all that it takes. Like seriously, I had a guy on my show who wrote one that had like a hundred and

something different questions and some were very sexual, some weren't. So you kind of ease into it. But like you wind up learning a lot about your partner and sometimes just talking about those things changes the game. Like we said before. Yep. Very true. And I think even, you know, your podcast or my Ask a Sex Therapist podcast, like use that. Like, I actually think bringing something up through like a neutral piece of content really helps people not take it personally. So if you're like, oh, well, here was just some experts.

Here was some podcasts. So I was talking about this topic. Then that's the way to bring it up or share an article or share a book. Because when you're not kind of coming at somebody with what they did wrong and it's just generally. general information, they tend to be a lot more open. Yeah, totally. And I know, like, I'm a realist. So I like like, like, like, real life stories, you know, good, bad, ugly. Like, I like that it took years sometimes for someone to say things, because that's real life. It's not the movies. Things don't change. Yeah, exactly. You know, isn't it sometimes like people are going to tell somebody something and they

might hit a brick wall? But, like, over time, maybe that person will change, right? Like, I mean, it's not like always just one conversation. Definitely. Correct? No, it's not one conversation. It's rarely one conversation. And yeah, often what happened is someone is holding on to something from years ago. And so I think that's such a good reminder. It's like, keep the conversation fresh. Maybe let your partner know, hey, I realize I'm holding on to something from years ago. Like, where do you actually stand on this now? Yeah. And even with the cross-dresser, like, you know, I love that like there's sex therapist out there that now I could refer people to because sometimes I think having somebody else there to help that conversation is great too. Like, you will, work with it because a lot one cross tester or panty hose guy I call them hosers like one of those people on my show once said something and it was so fucking brilliant and I repeat it all the time and he said you know like you got to think about how long it took you to figure out your fetish and then give that same grace period to your partner you can't expect them to understand it after you tell them like it took people years to figure it out themselves yeah so you can't

think your partners that you tell and this all too is going to accept it and you have to give them time too, you know, but a little education goes a long way. That's a really good insight because we forget that. Sometimes I think, it makes me think about going to summer camp and you have this like transformative experience and then like no one gets it when you come home. Yeah, totally. But it's like just because you've had the transformative experience with your own kanker fetish or fantasy, your partner was not there. They don't know. They haven't been through that journey. So yeah, that's really nice to give them the grace. I love that. Yeah, but how great is it though that like you can like you do work with couples, right? And when you're

working with them, do you help them sort of communicate with each other or get those, you know, when one person, right? Yes. Yeah. So sometimes, sometimes during the session, it's like, okay, pause. Let's redo that. It's like, right, did you notice how your partner expressed in emotion and then you ignored it and validated it? Let's try again. So I try to keep it very lighthearted. And, you know, usually there's some laughter while we're doing this intense emotional work as well because it's hard. You know what I mean? It's like relationships are hard. Communication is hard. I actually think that sometimes not taking ourselves too seriously can be really helpful. But yeah, I think that the feedback in the moment when the communication is happening is such a good learning tool because they do have a chance to correct it right away and

then it's going to be more likely to stick with them. So that's that's kind of my approach. And do you typically find, like say someone has like a, you know, their emotional intelligence is lacking in one sense. Do they typically like, I mean, is it typically just like one person is the problem in a situation or isn't it most likely always both people have a little bit something that they maybe could work on to help them together? I mean, always both people have something to work on. I find that it's usually one person who's lagging to be. Oh my God. So funny. I like that. Right. Yeah.

Right, because usually one person's like, right, like listen to my emotions. The other person's like, yeah, whatever, but you should just be chill. And it's like, okay, we've got some work to do on the validating and understanding. And the other thing I'll add for people listening who want to be working on this or who've been told maybe they're not validating enough, you don't have to agree with their emotion. You don't have to think it makes any sense. You could think it's so ridiculous and you can still hold space. Oh, I like that. You can still be like, yeah, you can be like, okay, I think this is ridiculous.

to like let me understand it at least. Right. I'll hear you out. Hear them out. Yeah. Right. Maybe it'll like make it make sense a little bit. So I think even just bringing a little bit of curiosity goes a long way with your partner

feeling like, oh, you're trying to like understand me. Thanks. You know? Yeah. No. I love that. And do you typically work with couples, singles? Like how do people find you and do you get courses online, all that kind of good stuff?

Yeah. Lots of ways. So my website is my name, Heathershannon. co, so it's not a dot com.com.com.com. And yeah, I work with people in committed relationships who, you know, have lost the sexy spark for one of those five reasons I listed before with the quiz. And I help them get back to feeling more playful and passionate and excited again using the pathway to passion method, which starts with the emotional intelligence. So that's That's kind of the work that I do.

I do sometimes work with individuals and certainly have done a lot of that in the past as well when it comes to taking a more conscious approach and kind of finding a new way to approach their sex lives and relationships. But yeah, the bread and butter is definitely the couples who are just feeling that strange. They're just feeling kind of stuck. And they're often people who have been to therapy before. Oh, interesting. They have, oh, yeah, they've done some personal work. they've often seen couple counselors before and they're kind of, they finally get to a point where they're like, we need specific help with sex.

You know, that keeps getting put off. That's kind of the missing piece. And so that's often who comes to see me. Like they love each other, they're friends, and they're just stuck in the sex area. Yeah, I like that. And the course is online. They're for couples. So like someone could get the emotional intelligence course or the other one.

And it's for the couple to work together? The emotional intelligence course is actually for anyone. have to bring a relationship. So it goes over three different modules. So I mentioned the Gottman one. I talked a little bit about the internal family systems and the part. So there's a whole module on that. And then there's another module on thought work. So noticing the thoughts and stories and beliefs we have that are limiting us. Yeah. And yeah. And if people are seeking out working with me, they definitely have some of those. Oh yeah. That's what it's all about. We all have. That's what I have. Yeah, that's life. I was just. I was just. I was just. I was just. I was journaling this morning on my own ones. Yeah, we all have our fucking stories. It's so much. Yeah, it's intense. It's hardcore.

But it's important to get to that shit. That's where it all... And you mean tools. Yeah. Right? Yeah. Like you need... So that's what the course is about.

It's like, here are the tools. Here are the ways to journal about this. Here are the ways to work with your own parts. You know, I have an audio recording of how to work with your own parts in like a written step-by-step instruction sheet. And then there's a workbook too. So the idea is like, hey, here's all the tools. now you have this skill set for the rest of your life.

So yes, it's going to help your relationship and your sex life, but it's also just going to help your life. Yeah, totally. And they could also, though, if they see you in person, like is it in person Zoom, I'm assuming, like wherever they are? Yeah, all online. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

And that's the nice thing. So I'm licensed as a therapist, but I work as a coach so that I can see people regardless of where they're located. Right. And that's the key thing, you know, because if you're licensed as a therapist, you cannot see people out of your state. But you can see people out of your state as. a coach, right? Yes, exactly. And so I'm, you know, I'm mindful of this stuff. I'm not going to be

like treating someone's depression and anxiety, but if they're like, hey, I have a regular therapist for that or, hey, I'm in good shape with that already, then yes, I can definitely help you with your sex life. Right. I love that. We'll give your shout out to everything where, and I'll put links in the description, do it again so that, uh, and people driving, like I said, the links will be in the description and stuff, so they don't have to remember. So yes, if people want to take the free quiz, that one is at the better bedroom.com. My, podcast if people want to check that out is ask a sex therapist and then my website is heathershannon dot co okay great so do me a favor send me the links that you want me to post with your just with your

episode uh thank you so much for calling in this was like super interesting and i'm glad you liked it you're you're great to talk to i can see why your podcast is so successful like you're just the energy you have around all of this well i'm genuinely interesting yeah and yeah it's very genuine yeah yeah because i'm genuinely interested. Like I didn't add a sexual health Saturdays thing just for no reason. It's like this is the kind of stuff that I love. I love it. So it's interesting to me. So it's no different than when I'm talking to people about their life story. I'm just as curious talking to you and hearing all the stuff from you. So and I think that that's what people enjoy. You know, and that's why I'm doing it. You clearly, you care about your audience. Like you know the fact that you're like, hey, I get less downloads on these episodes, but it helps people. I'm sure your audience senses that. Yeah. That's what I'm here for. And that's what you're here for. So thank you so much for. Thank you. falling in. Thank you. Thanks, Heather Shannon. Send me your links and a pick for my Patreon and a bio.

That'd be perfect. Okay, cool. Perfect. Thanks, Kathy. Thanks. Bye. Okay. Bye.

Okay. That was the end of those questions. We have more coming up. So stay tuned. I'll probably air the next few episodes next Sunday. Thanks so much for tuning in. Okay. I just want to tell you before you go that my book,

It's called Strictly Anonymous Confession. Secret Sex Lives of Total Strangers is now available not only in paperback and e-book, but you can pre-order the audiobook. It's still not going to be out until August 25th, but you can pre-order it. The book is basically 17 different stories taken from my show. I kind of picked one story from each category that I talk about on my show. Like there's a hot wife story. There's a cuck queen story.

There's a cuck story. there's a gang being girl story. Like I said, 17 stories, and they're all told in the third person, and they're all true. I took the interview and rewrote it in the third person, and I wouldn't really call it like a total erotica book. Think like Penthouse letters. It's more direct. It's not so over the top like erotica. I don't really like that kind of vibe, right?

But these are true stories, 17 of them. They're really short chapters, easy read. you could read, you know, one or two and then skip around. You could read the whole book. It's available in eback format, paperback format. And finally, the audio book is available coming out August 25th. But you could pre-order it now. And if you buy my book in any format or pre-order it, I will throw in a complimentary link to my Discord. My Discord does not disappoint. Okay. There's no way you get into my Discord any other way than getting the link from me. Okay. give it to people who buy my book. There's tons of people in there. Everybody shares content with

each other and that's what you get to do there. You can post your own pictures and videos. There's tons of channels. We have lots of contests where you can win a lot of money. It's a super fun place to be. It's a total strictly anonymous community and you will love it. I will be giving anyone who buys my book access to my Discord. It's private. Like I said, all you got to do is email me a screenshot of your purchase, whether you did the audiobook, the e-book, or the paperback. Send it to me at Strictly Anonymous Podcast at gmail.com. That's Strictly Anonymous Podcast at gmail.com. And I will send you the link to Discord.

So anyway, thanks so much for tuning in. This is the Strictly Anonymous podcast.