Strictly Anonymous Confessions - 1364 - Will Cheated on his Now Ex-Wife Many Times and Got Caught Twice?!

Episode Date: February 11, 2026

Will cheated on his now ex-wife and got caught two separate times and he called in to talk all about it. Tune in to hear all the details including how and why he was lways looking for validation from women early on, when the cheating started with his wife, the first person he cheated on his wife with and the weird kink she had,  how and why he confessed to his cheating on his wife the first time and how she reacted, what he used to justify his cheating, the cam girl he cheated on his wife with and what went down with her, his experience on Ashley Madison and the women he met on there, the STI he gave his wife, the woman he cheated with and what her husband did after he found out about their affair and how it led to his divorce, the new woman he’s dating and how and why he’s afraid he’s going to cheat on her too even though he doesn’t want to plus a whole lot more. GET A COPY OF THE STRICTLY ANONYMOUS BOOK! Strictly Anonymous Confessions: Secret Sex Lives of Total Strangers. A bunch of short, super sexy, TRUE stories. GET YOUR COPY HERE: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://amzn.to/4i7hBCd⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ To see HOT pics of DOVE plus my other female guests + hear anonymous confessions + get all the episodes early and AD FREE, join my Patreon! It's only $7 a month and you can cancel at any time. You can sign up here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.patreon.com/StrictlyAnonymousPodcast⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and when you join, I'll throw in a complimentary link to my private Discord! To join SDC and get a FREE Trial! click here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.sdc.com/?ref=37712⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ or go to SDC.com and use my code 37712   Want to be on the show? Email me at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠[e-mail]⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ or go to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://www.strictlyanonymouspodcast.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and click on "Be on the Show." Want to confess while remaining anonymous? Call the CONFESSIONS hotline at 347-420-3579. All voices are changed.   Sponsors: ⁠⁠https://beducate.me/pd2605-anonymous ⁠⁠ Get your personalized road map to pleasure ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://loadboost,com⁠⁠ — To get 10% off LOAD BOOST by VB Health use code: STRICTLY ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://butterwellness.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Get the Butter massager and get 20% off your whole order ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bluechew.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ — Get 10% OFF your first month of Bluechew GOLD! Use code: STRICTLYANON⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.quince.com/strictlyanon⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ — For premium quality Quince clothing plus FREE shipping and 365 day returns Follow me! Instagram  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/strictanonymous/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ X  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://twitter.com/strictanonymous?lang=en⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Website  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://www.strictlyanonymouspodcast.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Everything else ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://linktr.ee/Strictlyanonymouspodcas⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠t Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

If you want to be on the show, it's called Strictly Anonymous because I change everyone's voices. You could call me from a phony number. You can email me from a fake email. I don't care to know who you really are. I just want to hear your true story, your real story. So if you want to call into the show while remaining anonymous or not anonymous, if you're out proud, that's fine too. Send me an email, Strictly anonymous podcast.com or go to my website, strictly anonymous podcast.com and click on be on the show. If you have a confession, a naughty confession that you want to leave on my confessions hotline, you could do that 24-7. The number 347-4-7-4-2-2-0-3-5-7-9. You could call that number 24-7. Like I said, just make sure you're in a quiet place, put the phone to your ear. You got like four minutes to leave

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It's all on that site. And you get a free trial, like I said, just use my code 37712 or go to the description and click on the link and you'll be taken right there. Okay, today I have on Mark. Oh my God, Mark is one of those people that, you might, I thought reading his email, he's like the worst kind of cheater imaginable. And he has cheated and he cheated a lot on his wife. And you will be like, well, Kathy is a fucking doucheback. He is a really bad cheater. Yeah. But you're going to get sort of the backstory on why he cheated, how he felt about cheating, what was going on in his marriage. I mean, I still think he's going to be judged. But,

I feel like, you know, Mark was very honest about everything on this call, the good, the bad, and the ugly. And he was very aware of a lot of things, much more so than I think some people who are cheating. And I appreciated that. His story is super interesting. He was married for a long time. Cheated throughout the marriage, talked about all of it, was busted twice or confessed. Wait till you hear those two times.

And then eventually they got divorced. And now he's in another relationship. and he's trying not to cheat on her, okay, but he's a little bit stuck in his like old habits, you know? He cheated on Ashley Madison. He cheated online. He cheated with webcam girls. You know, he did that whole thing.

And now he's in a new relationship. Like I said, he hasn't cheated yet. But he's like maybe on his way. And we talk about that too. The whole story is super interesting. Let me know what you think about Mark. I appreciate his honesty. It's a super interesting story.

I like cheater stories because they think that they help other people to hear like what you shouldn't do. You know, I think that they help other people, especially because people are very honest to me and like he's very honest. So anyway, I'm going to get right to be right back on with Mark. Hi, Will. Welcome to the Strictly Anonymous podcast.

How are you today? Hi, doing all. Kathy. Thanks. So listen, Will, you're a cheater. You've been cheating on your girl. Well, the woman you were married to you. You're not married anymore since like very early into the marriage. So I always say I love to have cheater stories on my show because I feel like you can't really judge all cheater.

cheaters, right? You can't put them all in the same category. There's, you know, very different end of the, there's like the total philander on one side and on the other side is the guy who hasn't been fucked in 15 years and eventually he breaks out and fuck somebody even though he's the most monogamous person. And in between, you have like a lot of other kinds of cheaters, right? I don't know which cheater you are, but you did start cheating on your wife like very early on into your marriage and cheated a lot, right? I don't know. Oh yeah. You are dating, Let me ask you this, because I know that you're with somebody new, and you've been with that person almost two years now. Are you cheating on that person as well?

That kind of defines. It depends on you define cheating, I guess. Well, how do you define it? I think that that's a great thing that we should get settled right up front. Like, how do you define cheating? Well, I don't know. I think there is an emotional aspect to it, and that's why I struggle with the most. I mean, there hasn't been any physical or verbal contact with anyone with this woman, but still there's been plenty of looking around.

Oh, okay. So what does that mean looking around? Talking to people online, flirting with them, I don't understand. No, no talking. Just kind of like exploring what else is out there. You know, getting on apps and whatever, but not really talking to anyone. Okay, but are you looking because you're hoping to meet somebody and then go meet them? Or are you just looking to like fulfill a need in you and you want to fulfill that so you don't actually cheat on this one? yeah I think it's the latter I mean it's kind of missing yeah I mean it's missing it's bad to say this because I do realize

the things I did were wrong and I have kind of through a realization but at the same time it's you kind of I don't want to say it's an addiction but kind of pretty close you miss the the excitement of all that and so that's kind of where I'm at now

trying to rectify you know finding that seems like a monogic relationship and it's at least so far it's been difficult yeah because listen when you were yourself into something, it's no different than like, you know, starting to smoke. I mean, it's disgusting at first, but the more you do it, the more you get locked in and now, like, to quit,

it's like, you know, really hard, right? Because that, you form a habit, right? And so I can imagine even if you, you want to get out of it, you still have that itch, right? You're trying not to scratch it, but it's like there. And it takes a while for anything that you've been, like, habitual with for a long time, right? It doesn't just go away. There was like this great movie about quantum physics with this deaf lady once millions of years ago. And it talked about how we like wire ourselves into our brains and like the only way to like unwire the wiring that we set up is to starve them. But like I'm really good at quitting things. I quit drinking. I quit smoking. I've quit a lot of things. But like to starve those things in my brain and get rid of those wiring, it took a lot of

work. Like it doesn't just go away, you know. So if you cheated your whole life and it was very highly charged, which most of the time it is, right? It's not just going to go away. in one second just because you decide to not, you know, that you want to change or whatever, you know, that's not really how it works. So people want to quit smoking, but the urge doesn't go away the next day, you know? No, absolutely. No, I agree with that completely. And I think I heard you talk about it too.

I've got a very addictive personality. It doesn't matter what it is, but if I get into it, it's very hard to stay away from it. It just keeps kind of snowballing into something that's, you know, that's an addict personality. And anything that feels good to, I mean, listen, I'm an addict, right? so I quit drinking many years ago and so I'm good at quitting things but I am an addict and so anything I like that is good that makes me feel good feelings like I just want more like whether it's a song or food or whatever you know what I mean it's like if it's good I want to a hundred times it so I totally get it but let's get your life story let's go back to the beginning before your wife even like

were you always somebody that when you were in relationships always like sort of cheated on the side no I wouldn't say that I mean I only dated two other people besides my wife wife. Okay. So that's kind of where I, I guess, developed a habit of feeling needed and validated. So I kind of always had a girlfriend from, I don't know, like sixth grade. Okay. Long term. Yeah. Long term. Yeah. So, yeah. So one girlfriend, like five years in high school and then I met my now ex-wife in high school and we did it all through college and then got married after that. So there was no real like dating phase. I kind of did that during my marriage. Okay. So those, were your, but how long were each of those relationships before your, your wife?

I mean, it was really only one. One was over the summer, then the other one was like four or five years in high school. Okay. But when you were with that person, there was no cheat. There was no looking for anyone else. You were totally fine just staying with that one person. Yeah. Okay. And you see that the fact that you had these relationships always typically more a relationship guy as like being needy? Well, needy validation. I don't know what you would call it. Just kind of needing the somebody else to you know to feel that affection with or something right women women I mean like to yeah definitely women yeah I mean that are fine too but you can't get the same no no I know no so listen some guys I think a lot of guys that you know are always like sort of especially

like love bombers I think oh what's behind that a lot of times is like them getting like some sort of like vapid hole filled you know like through attention or like just sort of the thrill of trying to get someone to like them and it must be some sort of validation you know in secure thing being validated on some level, right? Because why that nonsense so much for so many people, you know? So do you, can you like, if you look back, and we'll get back to your story, like if you could look back into your childhood or into like who you are, like were before all of this, like, do you, do you know why maybe you were seeking validation at all? No, not really. I know. I know it's always, you people talk about the relationship with the mother

her father. Yeah. What I do know, looking back, and this is something I didn't find out until actually I had cheated and then had to tell my parents or whatever. But my dad actually cheated on my mom. And I remember, I didn't know that growing up. I found that out again later. But there was always, like, subtle, I guess, signs of that, you know, his eyes would linger

on another woman or something like that. So that type of education. Yeah. Well, listen, I think a little boy really looks up to his father, right? you know, here this guy is sort of always like turning his head and looking at chicks, right? Even when he's with your mother. And on some level, I think, you know, kids are smarter than people give them credit for, right? Like, maybe you didn't know that your dad was cheating, but there was this whole thing going on on some level, you know, it, you knew it, right?

I mean, you didn't know the facts, but you saw the signs and all that stuff and that stuff imprints on you, I think for sure, you know? Okay, so you marry your wife. Like, why one year into it? Like, what goes on? Do you like just like unfortunately like meet someone and develop a relationship? Like what happened that first time one year into your relationship? Because you're now you're married. You never cheated before on any of your other girlfriends.

Why are you into your marriage? Well, man, again, I think it depends on you ask. I because like, well, again, and if you how you define cheating, I think if you were past my ex-wife, she'd say, well, anything porn and above is cheating. And so there was, I didn't really get into that in high school, but then in college, we were dating long distance. That's part of the problem. But I remember kind of, you know, there was that initial guilt that's where I look at porn and, you know, wash off in the shower or whatever. But that kind of slowly kind of went away as I went on and I became more and more like I need more and more. And so I

think that's when I started needing that, I don't know, you know, because when you look at porn, it's very one way. So you need the kind of the interaction. And I think that's what I eventually started looking for. Because it wasn't enough. But, okay. So, but let's just clear up this whole cheating thing and stuff. Like you were married to a woman who was like even if you look at porn that's cheating. So that became like this sort of, uh, maybe that's why it was so alluring to you because it was like very naughty. I mean, because I personally don't think porn is cheating. I mean, it's like ridiculous. I mean, it's like you were like, you just knew that that was something that you had to do in secret. Yeah. I mean, it's kind of the typical story of somebody grew up for other religious. She was the same way. And so that's kind of our vote. And I think that, uh, yeah, I mean, it just developed you need more. And I mean, it just developed you need more. And and more, and like you said, the... Makes it more appealing sometimes.

Right. You know what I mean? Unfortunately, right? What you resist process. So, okay, so now you're doing all this stuff and like,

who's that first person? So in my job, I kind of move around a lot. And so I don't think I met somebody until, I think five years into our relationship in person. It started out with different sites, like I don't know if you ever heard of

newbie nudes. No, that's where you've never heard of nudes. No. You be news. That's a good name. Yeah. So you,

I know, right? It's catchy. You post, it's just a bunch of people that it's nothing. I guess at the time it was new, but you post pictures of yourself or you and your wife, you know, and you can interact with the people as well,

whoever was posting. So that was the way that I was trying to reach out. I never met anyone off of there. But then again, a few years later, I started going into AOL chat rooms. And that's where I finally met the first person that I had cheated on, physically,

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So you could unlock your personalized roadmap to sexual fulfillment. I never met anyone off of there. But then again, a few years later, I started going into AOL chat rooms. and that's where I finally met the first person that I cheated on physically, at least with my outside my marriage. What was going on with you and your wife, like your wife in the bedroom, like as far as your guy's sex life? Well, I mean, kind of whenever I asked where we would have it, but it always felt, this is probably a typical story you hear from when you cheat, it always felt like I was the one asking for,

and, you know, like a sex addict. But on top of that, we have four kids. in that time she was having babies. And so that was kind of where her focus was. Yeah. So I lost the attention and she didn't want to have sex because of the babies. So I think that was a huge part of it as well. Of course. That's a big part, especially for a guy that admits that, you know, he gets his validation from the woman in his life, right? And I think that that happens a lot to guys. I mean, they become second fiddle. And as a woman who has a kid, I understand why the guy gets kicked to the side. You know what I mean? But I think it's hard for the guys, you know, to sort of deal with that. And it's hard for,

for the women to juggle that because, you know, how is that guy supposed to feel when they become sort of, in your case, like fifth wheel, right? Right. You got four kids. Yeah. And it became easy. Like, and after all this happened, you know, during the divorce, we actually talked about this stuff.

And she's like, shit, I thought, would have just looked at your credit card statements. I got to find all that. And we'll get into Ashley Madison and all that stuff. Yeah. Yeah. But it's like if I would have just paid attention to the finances, I would have been able to catch this much earlier on. Yeah.

I think she had, she, she was very idealistic. And like my husband would ever cheat on me. That's something that these horrible people do. And then I think, you know, eventually she figured that there wasn't the case. But it was, it almost became easy to cheat on her. I think it almost became a point. And again, I don't think this is anything new where the guilt was getting so great as like, shit, I just, I want you to catch me cheating. You know, so I can confess and we can get over with this.

Yeah, I always warn people. Like when I have cheaters on my show, I always, the most worried for the cheaters who feel guilty. Because I'm like on some level, your subconscious is going to sabotage. Like, because on some level, what's happening in your brain is you are saying,

like, you don't want to do this. You want to stop. So the universe will provide. It's like the person that talks about them hating their job every day and then they get fired. Well,

what did you fucking expect what's going to happen? You know what I mean? And so it's like the cheaters that don't feel guilty are never the ones that get caught. It's always the ones that feel guilty. Because on some level,

if you have a part of yourself that wants to, stop and you don't hold your head up high and stop yourself, well, then, you know, it's going to happen for you. And it did, you know. But I mean, I don't know if she caught you. But let me ask you this because you said before that your wife was like very like idealistic. Now, you know, I sometimes think, you know, maybe she didn't want to know at that time. You know what I mean? Because like would, if she would have known, because sometimes it's like it seems very obvious right to some people or when you see certain divorces that like, oh my God, like, how did that person not know that this was going

on? But don't you think on some level sometimes some people don't want to know the truth? Because if they did, they'd have to do something about it. And maybe like in the middle of having four kids or even two kids, like the last thing she wanted to do was blow up her fucking marriage and her idealistic life. You know what I mean? Yeah. No, absolutely. And I mean, so actually you have to confess twice, right, chose to confess, whatever you look at it. But the first time was after she just after, after she had her second kid. Yeah. And it was kind of like,

what do you expect me to do? I mean, I can't divorce you. I have nothing. You know, she wasn't working. I was the bread and stuff like that.

But on top of that, besides, yes, her not wanting to know, I was also very, very good at gaslighting and all those other tricks that cheaters generally use.

So it just, I think those two things combined. Yeah, I think you're right. She probably didn't really want to know. Yeah, well, deniers always wind up with gaslight. I mean,

it's a perfect pairing, right? You were telling her what she wanted to hear because she didn't want to do anything about it. Like you're both wrong. I'm not saying anyone's worse, you know. Of course she's more of the victim, right? And you're doing it, but I'm like, that is sometimes

the perfect pairing, right? Because you're telling her exactly what she wants to hear because the last thing she wants to do is to leave, right? And so, and you probably didn't want her to leave you either. So of course you're going to say, of course you're going to fucking gaslight her. You know what I mean? And say what she wants. Because did you

want your relationship to blow up? No, absolutely not. I mean, and even it, so towards the end of our marriage, I worked really hard at, you know, trying to get it back and whatever. And then when I did, you know, I was back in the bedroom, you know, and I was like, what the hell am I doing? I don't want to be married to this woman. And obviously she doesn't want to be married to me either. So I think I just, for a while, I just stayed in that repetition, you know, of going out, doing my things, then feeling bad, coming back and then getting annoyed, you know, finding minute things wrong with our relationship and using that as an excuse to go back out, you know, and continue to achieve. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, totally. That makes a lot of sense. So that first person, you meet them on a chat, right? And then you wind up meeting in person, and that's the first time that you do something physical with someone, correct? Yeah, and that was, I don't know, I think I mentioned it. And then as to you, but I was, she was a nurse. Yeah, yeah, you said that, yeah.

I always, yeah, and I figured, do you want to see my dick or me masturbating? And it always turned to like, well, let me see that ass. And so I think she had a fixation with that for some, which was fine. And that kind of introduced me early on to my ass and how good it felt. But that's, yeah, that was kind of an interesting first meet up with someone going that direction instead of just like, you know, full on sex or blow jobs or something like that. Yeah, you did use a word that freaks me out. And it's like spectrum.

I mean, she would put that inside. I don't know why I don't like that kind of thing. She opened up like two inches. I think I'm still recovering from that. that, yeah. But she definitely had a weird kink. Let me tell you. The fact that she was a nurse and she was into this like spectrum shit, right?

Don't you think? Yep. Yep. No, I agree. Well, and again, I mean, I really liked it.

And so after that, I started exploring with, I were using my wife's dildo in my ass and kind of feeling bad. I was like, holy shit, this actually feels good. Yeah. Is that crazy?

How many guys don't know? I mean, like, as a woman who's always been a three input girl, I'm always kind of like, why wouldn't a guy try? Listen, I think a lot of guys have tried and they,

and they just don't cop to it. And then there's like that other percentage of guys that never have. And they probably should because like what's the big fucking deal? Like it feels really good, you know? And no guy has ever tried and been like, oh, that was the worst thing. Oh my God. It was incredible, right? Yep.

Yeah. Did your wife ever caught you like stealing her sex choice? No. No. I mean, again, like looking back, it's just there was a complete obliviousness to it. She just didn't want to know. I mean, gaslighting. She was busy with the kids.

Like she just, no, just no clue whatsoever. Yeah. Okay. So you're with, how long were you, did you hook up with that nurse lady? Like what, did you ever have any kind of affair or was it always just sex? No, I mean, that really wasn't emotional. It was just more physical in nature. Yeah.

It wasn't until, gosh, yeah, like a year or two after that is when I had my first kind of emotional and physical affair. And that's, that was based, you know, off of somebody I met off of Ashley Madison. Okay. So you moved on to there. Like after, let me, wait, let's stay with the nurse. So, like, you know, the first time you do hook up with her and everything, like, do you feel really guilty? Do you start feeling guilty immediately? Does the guilt come way later?

I mean, it came a little bit after I came and then more so when I got in the car afterwards. That's what always happens, right? When you're in the moment, like the buildup, it's exciting. Then you realize what happened. Yeah. I don't know, it just kind of all becomes clear. But yeah. Yeah, listen, when you're horny, it's like you're drunk, right?

You're not thinking properly. Like, you're not in the reality, right? And then after you come, you're like, what the fuck, right? You snap right into it. It's like you get sober real fast. So you felt guilty, though, immediately the first time. Yeah, the first time. Then it started to wear off the more than it.

Yeah, but that's typical. And then, but then towards the end, it came up again, you said, right? Towards the end? Towards the end of my marriage? I don't know. You said at some point towards the end, you started to feel really guilty. Again? Did it come back up again at some point that you want to stop?

Like you just couldn't do it anymore? Didn't you say that? Cheating? Yeah. No, cheating took the divorce to realize I didn't have to cheat more. I could just go out and date. I don't think, yeah, I mean, I don't think the guilt ever really kind of fully surface. Well, then why did I go through my whole speech about the guilty people getting busted?

Just wasting my time. No, it is. That wasn't you. You didn't feel guilty. You only felt guilty the first couple times. Then it was off to the racist. Well, it was just so easy. I mean, the more you felt that guilt, but the more you just like, well, I can just,

flush it. And, you know, there was less and less time between, I did it, I feel guilty, let's go on to the next adventure, you know, it just became less and less over time. Well, I think that that's very typical. That typically happens. I was just thinking, I could also see the story where eventually over time, maybe that guilt creeps back in. I don't think it would stay the whole time. You know what I mean? But typically they feel guilty right in the beginning, and then it goes away, the more you do it because it just becomes like whatever every day. And especially if you're getting away with it, right? Yeah, I mean, so, and, and, and, The last person I cheated with was the two-year affair that got like, holy shit, let's get married and leave our lives as we know it.

And so after that all happened, yeah, there was definitely some level of guilt because that involved leaving my kids and all that. So there was some guilt in there, but not when I was kind of playing around with people off and on. Okay. And you got caught twice, right? You said when did the first time you get caught? Like, or was it around the nurse time? Yeah, I mean, it wasn't me getting caught. It was me confessing to my wife because that guilt was.

and I wanted to relieve myself of it. So, yeah, this was a short affair. This lasted. I think I saw her, I don't know, two times, maybe three. She used email. She sent me an email. Her husband caught her. And her husband's like, you know, you need to confess or whatever.

So she did. I felt equally, I guess, responsible or I don't know what I was doing. So I confessed to my wife. I think I hope that I would get with this woman who I'd only met like two or three weeks before. and like long-term type of thing. But obviously that didn't work out. So, yeah, so that was the first time.

I confessed didn't really get caught. And then the second time, yeah, a little bit more. You could, how soon after the, like, the nurse was that situation that you'd, like, wind up confessing? Like, how long into your cheating? Like a year, probably. Really? And you literally just told her you didn't have to. She didn't catch you.

And, like, what was her reaction? Uh, it was kind of like, what am I going to do? I mean, again, this was right after she had her second baby. She's like, what the fuck am I supposed to do? You know, I mean, I have nowhere to go. You know, there's nothing, no recourses for me. So, yeah, I mean, that's, I think I told her hoping that she would say, oh, you're a piece of shit.

I can't be married to you anymore. We need to divorce. And then I could, you know, in my fantasy land, go be with this woman. They're going to get that two weeks ago. Oh, my God. So that's kind of how my thinking was. back then. Yeah, very passive, aggressive. Like, you couldn't just take control of your own life.

You just figured you would, I don't know, mess up everybody else's in the process. Yeah. Basically, it was very selfish. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, so she stays with you. Does she, like, is she the type of woman that was able to just, like, completely, like, turned it off and just, like, go on with your lives? Or was she very distrustful afterwards? And it took a long time before she could trust you, and did she resent you for a while? Or did she just, like, you know, turn it off and pretend it never happened and move on?

Yeah, I think the latter, she was very good at compartmentalizing. Later on, she went through a lot of therapy, so did I. We'll see if it actually helps in the long run. But she kind of realized that her mother had done the same shit that I had with the gaslighting and, you know, kind of treating her. So she was groomed as a child to kind of marry the piece of shit like, again, how I was acting at the time. Yeah, it's unfortunate. And you became your dad. And you became your dad.

I mean, we all live out that shit, right? Yeah. Yeah. Oh, wow. So she was, you know, sometimes I admire those kinds of women, but there is a, there is like a sickness sort of attached to it, you know, that she could just completely like detach from this thing that happened, right? Because in a way, like you never, she never probably really dealt with it, right? So it was there on some level. Yeah. So afterwards, again, when we kind of had actual conversations about this as we were getting divorced, I didn't realize, but besides the postpartum, right, that happens after most women have kids, she had severe depression. and one of the times we lived overseas. And so I think she was at, you know, at the brink of kind of ending things. And again, this is not something that she really told me.

Wow. I just found out later. So, yeah, I didn't realize at the time, I just, you know, kind of figured she was figuring out her way to get through it. But now this definitely did affect her to a great degree. Yeah, sad. And it's interesting how two people could live together, have all these kids do everything together yet no one's like telling each other how they feel at all.

You know what I mean? Like these major things are happening and neither person has any clue about it, right? It's like, no, and that's, so listening to your show, I'm starting interrupt you, but like listening to your show, I mean, I think one of the huge things I've kind of started to appreciate about, you know, the non-monogamous couples or the hot wife thing is how much communication there is between those couples. And my ex-wife and I, like, communicate were shit. Not even the sexual things, just like daily business. It was like we were just two roommates, you know, and it just got to the point where I kind of was able to validate my chief.

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Two roommates, you know, and it just got to the point where I kind of was able to validate my cheating. I'm like I'm not getting anything out of this relationship. We have to be together for the kids. And so I'm just going to keep doing this. So yeah, the communication across the war was just complete shit. Yeah, it's funny. You called yourself Mark, because the other guy I talked to tape today, his name is Mark two. You need to listen to his episode because he was in a similar marriage, no sex, whatever.

But now they're hot wiping. But like the difference between what him and his wife did compared to what you and your wife do would be really interesting for you to listen, right? And like I was saying to him, like, wow, your story is so interesting and great. for other people to hear, you know, because they sort of tended to their issues outside of the bedroom, right? Because what's happening in the bedroom is typically most of the time not the problem inside the bedroom, right? It happens way before outside of the bedroom, right? Like, how were you and your wife ever going to have great sex when you guys weren't even talking about anything? You know what I mean? Together, really, right? Where you were keeping huge parts of

yourselves from each other. So where's the intimacy? And that doesn't help anyone's sex life. So, all right, so you cop to her, she sleeps it under the rug. And now, I mean, It sounds like you went on to Ashy Madison. You were doing Camgirls. Like you said, she could have just looked at your credit card and seen all the stuff that you're doing. So, like, just explain, like, all the other things that you were doing behind her bat.

Yeah, I mean, that was a big thing. And, I mean, besides, like, cheating, I do regret cam girls because I think that, I think over time that that took away, like, 10 grand for my bank account. Oh, my God. Well, so one of them was, and again, it's this, like, addiction that I get, you know, I just fall for people and I fell for this cam girl. And, you know, we kind of chatted and I found out where she lived.

And so we eventually met up and I gave her a few thousand dollars. I'm sure she used it for, you know, not the purposes I was hoping she would. But anyways, it just like, again, when I look back on that, like, holy shit, I met this woman. I just gave her, you know, thousands of dollars. I don't know. So, yeah, Camgirls, Ashley Madison, those were kind of the big things that kept me busy for about, five years or so. What kind of women were on Ashley Madison?

Like, were these women, like, I get the cam girls, probably a young girl, maybe that just want some cash? I don't know. But like, were the women on Ashley Madison typically, like, in your same situation, were they typically married women or were there more single women on there looking for, like, no strings attached guys? I don't know. You tell me.

Yeah, no, the ones I met were married. That's I figured, yeah. Yeah, a situation that they were looking for some, I don't know, validation or some, you know, pay attention to me type of thing. So that's most of the women that I met in there. There were a few. And there's actually, I mean,

that's when I got introduced to hot wife too. I remember meeting a woman who basically said, yeah, my husband gives me a pass to go out and, you know, have sex with whoever I want. Oh, wow. Which I,

yeah, which I thought she was lying. But then I realized, you know, after meeting other people like that, that's actually a thing that is. Can you believe what a thing that is? I can't believe what thing that is.

It's a big thing. Yeah. It's crazy. But I guess that would be a, a good place for people to go on. But I would assume, though, that it's other married women. But I would also assume that they like other, you know, Ashley Madison because they know that that other person on the other side is probably married too and has just as much to lose. So no one's going to blow each other's lives up, right? Like they also want to be very on the DL, right? But they're

not happy at home either. So you were typically seeing married women as well. Yeah. For the most part, married woman. Yeah. And yeah, so just different, you know, and sometimes there's relationships lasted for 12 hours sometimes you know like that last one they went two years just different variations um yeah we mostly met up in hotel rooms every once around a car went to one woman's house so just different variations of it do you protect yourself with condoms with everybody no i never did i never did and that's okay so there's maybe three things i regret um and that's one of them i gave my i gave my wife at the time an sdi and i was able to excuse it as like that came from because remember I had confessed to her before and so I was able to say no I probably got this from her

well whatever. What SDI did you give her? I can't remember it, but she had to go in and get surgery to get something taken care of. Yeah, it was pretty fucked up. Oh my. And let me ask you this. And I know you're going to be honest because you're anonymous and this is why being, you know, having people call me up anonymously is so great because they just tell me the truth.

You know, like after that whole thing, did you start using condoms or did you continue to like fuck around without anything anyway. Without anything. Yeah. Can you believe? I couldn't stay hard with the damn thing on. And I think that was maybe my conscience telling me like, look, dude, you probably shouldn't be fucking random women.

But yeah. They didn't stop you. No, and I didn't know there was such a thing as my anger out there either that I could kind of use to make sure things would work. So, yeah, I just continued to do it without it. Oh, my God. I just like pray that you didn't get another thing. Yep.

Wow. But you did give her something. And it was like soon enough or at a time where you were able to, you know, use it, like use the first time you confess. Why did you confess the second time? Oh, the second time. So, yeah, that's a, that's a bit different issue the second time. This was a woman that I actually really, really wanted to marry. And then I said, hey, let's, you know, we're going to do this.

You tell your husband and I'll tell my wife, we'll leave our kids. or she'll take whatever, we'll figure this out. And then the next day, I called her back and said, yeah, this isn't going to work. And within a week, I got a text from her husband saying, hey, I want to talk. So I guess she had told her husband after I dumped her, said, hey, this isn't going to work about everything and who I was. And so he reached out to me. And so you felt like did he threaten to tell your wife? And that's why you decided to tell her?

No. So he called. He's like, hey, man, thanks for picking up. You know, at least you're not a complete piece of shit. I tried to explain him. I really don't want to tell my wife. She's going through a lot of things. So I'd rather you not.

And at the time, he agreed. I think part of that was me trying to protect myself. And then there was a small part of it. Like, actually, you know, my wife can't take this anymore. You know, the depression that I found out about all that stuff. So let's just leave alone. But then three months later, he reached out again, this time to her. Your wife?

Yeah, my wife. I intercepted that it was on Facebook and I intercepted the message and like what the fuck man. I thought we had, you know, a deal. And he's like, no, man, you know, I need to tell your wife. I was like, okay, fuck it at this point. Let's just get her all out there. And so he was able to contact her. They had, you know, a discussion.

I think after, I don't know, after a little bit, I realized he was trying in some way to get back at me. Of course. Why, you think he was a feeling for your wife? Oh my God, that's the meanest thing to do to another. Like, I don't think ever like, I don't know. I know somebody recently who did the same thing and like was cheating with the person. And when they got caught with their person, they thought, oh, I got to tell the other person. I'm like, that's like terrible.

Yeah, you fucking hated your guts. Of course he was trying to get you back. You blew up his fucking marriage. He wanted to do the same to you. I did. But you know how his wife, and this is not an excuse. I want the details. Yeah.

Yeah. So the reason his wife is on Ashley Madison in the first place is he wanted to do the hot wife thing. He put her on there wanting to have some guy fuck her. And they got to the point where they were ready to meet some dude and they shut it off. It's kind of a typical thing, right? Like, you know, guys like, I want to do this. I want to do this. And then they're like, can't do it at the last minute.

And I think you've kind of talked to people that get past that and realize this is an amazing thing. Yeah. Well, he was stuck on that. So he kind of pulled it back. And she's, you know, without telling them, obviously, she's like, fuck this. I want to go fuck some people. So she, you know, put her an individual profile back on Ashken Madison. And that's how I met her.

Right. But who cares about that, the fact that, I mean, anyone in like, listen, you listen to enough stories. Like, if you want to ever go in and have, like, be in the lifestyle with any of your future partners, if anybody decides at any point that they're not into something full stop for all people involved. It doesn't make her any more right that she. she continued on just because he put put on the brakes. Like if someone can't handle it and they decide when they're like right in front of it,

like that they can't. Like you have to stop. Like that doesn't the other person shouldn't be like, well, you're the one that brought it up. So I'm going to just fucking go do it. Like it doesn't. There's no, there's no excuse for the fact that she went and did that behind his back. Right.

No, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, come on. So that poor guy. Oh my God. Poor guy. I want him on my show.

That's a good, you know, sort of story for a hot wifeing gone wrong. because like it is fucked up right i mean like that somebody you know that's like a really interesting story that like he put the stops but she was like oh you know the train of left the station for her and she's like was so horny to fuck another guy that she's like sorry i'm gonna do it yeah no one's actually kind of interesting i mean i i've stopped reaching out to her because obviously that's fucked up i think she's still married and trying to make it work or whatever but about like two years maybe three years i can't i can't remember um we had chatted a little bit on the phone and she had talked about like told him the only question he asked was like well did he

like it and then after that he's like you can fuck anyone else but this guy basically so i don't know if they you know went back in a hot wife and or not but yeah oh my god wait after he found out that that she had cheated on him he gave her another pass and said okay just go do it but i want to know but just don't fuck that guy that guy just doesn't know how to speak up for himself he's just a fucking mess that guy he's just like going to get cheated on again because he doesn't know what the fuck he's doing. But wait a second, you kind of fell for her, though. How long were you seeing her for?

Oh, my God. Well, so, I mean, again, the problem is it was a long-distance relationship. We didn't live in the same place. Okay. And it lasted two years, but I only saw her in person three times. But the, and you talk about like, well, what's the kind of what's the draw of cheating is we had like an amazing, at least what we thought. Because it was all sexual. I mean, yeah, sure, we talked about our spouses and all that shit.

but it was really just sexual. And I mean, the things that she would say, I mean, I remember she said something to the effect of like, I want to mark you so your wife can see it. Like, you know, she was a nurse too. And just like, I want to take a scalpel to you and make you bleed. And then we talked about, you know, like what we would do if we had a weekend together. She was like, I'd lock you in my dungeon for two days and not let you out and shit like that.

So just like really going deep into those fantasies that I'd never done before was kind of what was leading me into like this one is amazing. I mean, you know, so. In the sack. Right, but you didn't really have much like, like the whole thing and all the communication was very sexual in nature all the time. Or did it turn into like you were just like becoming friends too, I would assume. Yeah, no, we didn't. But again, I mean, it was all a fantasy because I never spent any actual time with her. Three times.

And you were ready to like leave your life. And the thing was again, my conscience was fucking with my dick. Like the sex was actually not that great any of the three times. So yeah, it was. no it wasn't like amazing passionate any of that stuff it was just not it just didn't work so yeah really do you think it was like so much build up and then when you got there just what like what made it not so great after all that kind of buildup and all that fantasy talk and all that kind of role playing you know via texting this whole time like why did it not was it not good in real life i i don't know again i my conscience

just wouldn't let me get hard oh you could i'm talking to it was yeah all right so there was guilt somehow but you just weren't maybe in touch with it, but your dick was in touch with it. Right? Oh my God. And so when your wife gets the news from him, is that when she finally, like, couldn't sleep it under the table anymore? Yeah. I mean, that's when, and again, at this time we were overseas, so she was away for our

friends and family. And she was like, all right, you need to sleep in a different bedroom and stuff like that. I mean, that was two years before we finally came back, you know, to the States. and went through the actual divorce process. But yeah, that was the beginning of the end. Sure. Right. And at that point, did she have, like, lots of questions?

Like, did you gaslight her again? Like, how did you guys get through it for two years? God, no, she didn't have very many questions. I feel like she asked, like, five or six and I was in. Yeah, well, I don't know if she didn't want to know the specifics or what, but, yeah, she really didn't ask a lot of questions, which for me, if I was in the, you know, opposite situation, I would have wanted to know everything, you know, how big was big. Did you enjoy it? How long did you fuck?

You know, where did you do it? But none of that from her. So, yeah. I think everyone has different coping skills. I like to know but I think some people don't want to know. You know, and her type of personality, it sounds like, you know, the less she knows the better. So I think the details would have worked against her. You know what I mean? I think it was better

for her type of personality, maybe not to know to go on for those next two years. I mean, for those next two years, like what eventually happened that led to the final straw where you actually guys did get divorced? if like it wasn't the cheating that time you know which is a very big thing like what happens two years later that you guys finally pull the trigger on something that probably should have happened you know many years prior yeah I know she came back to the US and found out there's all these men out there that want to date women I mean she was like holy shit there's a bunch of dudes out here I don't want to so I think that was pretty quickly like I don't need to stay with my husband anymore oh that's interesting wait so this whole time that this is happening you

guys are overseas so she doesn't have access to guys you do because you're traveling and stuff is that why you were getting all this action no it's actually stopped those two years over there i stopped yeah because at the beginning of the two years is when everything hit the fan and she had this conversation with with the woman's husband that i had to throw up and so for two years we were kind of trying to figure things out you know get a little bit better and then get worse and back and forth. So I mean, yeah, I don't think I was actually cheating at the time for those two years. Okay. Right. I know that you did say you did some like escorting stuff, but like it was like overseas where it was legal, correct? Yeah. And so you saw also people like that. So you weren't just seeing like these like the, because all we've really heard about was like maybe three people. Like how many people total do you think you cheated on your white foot?

Like 25, 30. Right. Right. And some people were like quickies, right? One off. Like I think you said like some people. like some people no longer than 10 minutes, some people longer, like the nurse and the woman from Ashley Madison, right? Yeah, most of them were. There was probably one other woman that I was with for like a year, but everyone else was very short term. Right. And then she came to you for the divorce? Like who rose her hand and said, like, hey, like, let's fucking end things. Yeah, I mean, she kind of said, look, I mean, we could stay together, but I'm always going to have one foot out the door. So, yeah, I'm just like, who wants to be in that relationship? So, I think, I mean, we're But what set off that conversation?

Like that doesn't come out out of nowhere. Like was it just like you got back to the States and like you guys weren't talking and you were very distant? Like how does that conversation come up? No, we went through counseling. I did myself. She did herself. And then we went together and kind of throughout that she just kind of kept saying it's the

same thing over and over. Oh, okay. So there was a mediator there and she started to cop to being honest about her feelings. Like you guys finally started to communicate. Yeah, no, absolutely. Yeah, interesting. Right, and you found out she wasn't happy. She found out she wasn't happy.

I mean, were you like sort of living a lie in that you were like saying you wanted to stay in the relationship? Or were you coping to the fact that maybe you weren't that interested in it either? Like, where was your head at when she was like talking to you about this kind of stuff? Yeah, I know. I was absolutely lying to myself. Like, I need to stay together. I need to do this all. the kids and all that stuff, I actually love her.

Once I was able to get to that point, like, what the fuck am I doing? I don't love this woman. Like, look at the last 15 years what I've been doing her. So it kind of bounced back and forth between realization and, you know, from them back into the fantasy of what the marriage was. Yeah, wow. How old were your kids when you guys got divorced? Were they way older at this point?

No. They were, I don't know, five to 12. Okay. And did you call it, like, with the divorce, like, you know, amicable? Was it really bad? I mean, do you have a good relationship with her now? Yeah, I have a much better relationship with that. We used a mediator. In the beginning, yeah. Yeah, I mean, and we kind of, you know, argued a lot. It helps because she's remarried and now has kids with her new husband. So that kind of takes away that emotional, like there's any possibility of ever making things work and getting back together. So that helped a lot. And what happened to your life after your divorce?

I kind of jumped into dating pretty quickly. I mean, because you're a guy that likes to have a woman in his life, right? So, like, how do you feel when you're, like, newly single? Like, did you get, I mean, I'm assuming she got the house. Like, where did you move to? Yeah, she got the house. I live in an apartment. So, yeah, I just started dating women.

I would jump into it. Like, oh, I love this woman. Two months later, like, I can't stand this woman. And that kind of continues. continued for a few years until it's funny. I mean, I don't think this is the first time you've heard this, but talking to my therapist, who became my unofficial dating counselor or whatever,

I explained her like, you know, my pattern, and she said, I know you're not going to expect this from me. Did you, have you ever thought of, you know, non-monogamy? I'm like, yeah, you know, that's something that I've heard plenty of people that come through hearsay is actually. And so I tried to do that a little bit, but again, I had to build a foundation. I tried to do that with a girlfriend.

and she kind of wasn't into it. And then it just, it didn't work out. But yeah. So I, and there's other things, too, I mean, that I tried. But yeah. Likewise. Like that. Like that.

Well, I met. So I went on field for a little bit. And I met a couple. And, you know, the typical, like, hey, I want my wife, a hot wife thing. But I also like to be friends with the guy. This is the guy talking. And so I thought about it. I don't want to do it.

But we can be friends. And so I actually hung out with him a few times. And then he kept saying, like, you know, my wife, you're the ones to meet you, hang out with you. And so we did. Hung out of the bar. Drink a little bit. And then I took her back to my apartment and fucked her.

And actually, I still hang out with the guy, but I don't hang out with the woman anymore. So I kind of tried that. But yeah. Why not the woman? Why was it in a one and done? Oh, because I just didn't, you know, we had sex. And then she went home. I was like, this is not fulfilling for me whatsoever.

Yeah, interesting. desire to always have that, you know, like a woman's day or night with me, that's the thing, which is, I guess, kind of something that, what's that? Well, you want to, can I, you're, I would assume maybe as a guy, listen, I don't think there's anything wrong with somebody wanting to be in a relationship, especially when you're older and you have a kids and, you know, what are you going to do every night go to bars, like when you're 25? You know, I think it's much better to be in a relationship when you're older than not, right?

I mean, you know, my brother just went through this, his second divorce and he just dated like fucking mad until he got another girl. she's moving in. And I understand it, you know, because what else is he going to do, you know, hang out with his friends? Like, he's not 25 anymore. It's a different phase of life. So I could, I would understand if like you're, you're trying to find somebody to pair up with again, right? Right. Yeah. And yeah. So that's, that's kind of where I'm running with this woman. Actually, and this is something that I've tried to, you know, because I realize I had cheated for two decades. And so I'm trying to figure out, do I need to tell the woman that I'm dating? Hey, I'm a cheater.

you know, I know a lot of women, not a lot, I shouldn't say that, but some women do have trauma, whatever we want to call it, you know, from past relationships. And some are like, I'm just not interested in that whatsoever. Find you did in the past, but I just will never be able to trust you. And so I tried to figure out a happy medium of, you know, hey, I have four kids. I love to do this. I also cheated on my wife for two, you know, for 20 years. Like the first time we talk versus maybe wait a few dates before I throw all the information out.

But did you throw that stuff out to this girl, the one you've been with for 18 months? I did. And I, I, I, she, she, I mean, she seems to trust me. She's very independent. We don't spend really that much time together. We don't live together. And she really hasn't asked much about the cheating. So I don't know if it's just, like you said, just I don't really want to know about it.

You know, I don't want to, you know, worry about it all the time. So great, it happened. Let's move on. Right. Now, do you, are you, like, do you, like, in your per, in the, perfect world. Do you think you'd do better or in a non-monogamous relationship? Or do you think if you found the right person and you were more honest with them and you didn't make all the mistakes that you did with your first wife, that you would be able to be monogamous with somebody?

I struggle with jealousy so much that I don't know that I would ever be able to get over that. Again, that's one of the reasons why I listen to your podcast and others about how non-monogamous you know, guys are just not jealous with their partners. And, you know, because I think based on my patterns, like the non-monogamy thing would likely be, I think, what I'm looking for, you know, instead of just one person fulfilling all my needs and, you know, find multiple ones. But I don't know. At this point, I think I think I'm still struggling to figure out which one would work best

for me. But, well, you got to see where that sort of, where those needs are coming from. Are they coming from? Because listen, there are just some people, and it's interesting. I had this woman, Dr. Jana on, who's like an NYU Ph.D. Yeah, like scientists there has done studies. And, you know, there's studies that show that a lot of people are non-monogamous by nature, just the way that they're wired, you know?

It's like you have to wonder to yourself, and I'm sure you deal with this in therapy. Like, is your sort of need for quote-unquote validation? Maybe it's not that. Maybe it's just that you are more non-monogamous and that would be right for you. or are you seeking all this outside of stuff because you're trying to fill, like I said, a vapid hole. And that's something that you need to fill up yourself, right? Those are two different things. Right.

No, I mean, I think I actually took her survey for talking about the same person. Oh, you did? Yeah. Yeah. I did. And that kind of made me think, like, which one am I? I can't just sit in the middle for the rest of my life. You know, you've got to figure out and choose.

I don't know there's variations of it. There are, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So. Have you discussed any kind of fantasies or role plays? or anything with the girl you're with now? Yeah, but it always, I think she had a really shitty relationship with her ex-husband, and there was kind of some major issues there.

And so I've talked about in passing, you know, non-monogamy and stuff like that. I think to her, it felt like I was attacking her in a way. I don't know. Those conversations didn't go very well. So maybe in the future. But, yeah. So what are you doing, though, behind her back, like that you said, like, because you you know, was like, what is cheating?

Are you doing like cam girl? Like, what are you doing on the side now? Because you're doing something to get your needs fulfilled, right? Yeah, I mean, it's, I did. You're right. I did. So it's, I mean, besides the typical pornography, I've so far been able to stay away from cam girls because, again, that's some money.

Okay, that's good. Yeah. Yeah, so positive progress, I guess. But it's jumping on these apps and just kind of like testing the waters. Oh, right. That's what you're doing. Yeah. I don't talk to anybody.

But it's like, yeah, I've been on Ashley Mass. and I've been on field. I even go on like the regular dating apps just to see you out there. So yeah, I mean that I continue to ask what I do. Why are you doing this? You have a very satisfying relationship. Yeah. Just why is this urge continuing to come up?

Yeah. And you still see your therapist, right? Yeah, occasionally. Yeah. Maybe you should still see it because, listen, do you really like this new woman that you're with? Do you plan on maybe like having her move? Because she doesn't live with you, right?

No, not yet. She's, yeah. He said she's very independent. whatever, but do you plan on, like, becoming closer with her and, like, building a life together? Do you see a future with her? Oh, yeah. I mean, she's amazing. She's not judgmental.

She's trusting. The sex is actually the best sex I've ever had in my life. Wow. I mean, just like all that, yeah, I mean, it's, all the things are pretty amazing. I just don't, I don't have as much time with her as I would like. And so that's when I'm like, well, maybe, you know, I had extra partners. But at this point, that would be cheating because she's not interested in the dog, but I. Why aren't you guys like spending more time together?

why haven't you like had her move in or anything like that so that you're not you don't have all that alone time to go looking on these fucking apps well she doesn't want to rush into a marriage i mean again the last one she doesn't get married she well she's got her kids full time too so it doesn't offer as much full time yeah so that's when i i'm trying to be empathetic but also like shit if you need this much time from the individual is this woman really that perfect of a match for you so yeah right because it's maybe it's that alone time that you just find yourself for you know what I mean and you have nothing to going on that you go and you know you you follow these old patterns of yours that's not good you know not to say that like you you know

she needs move in so you're not that way but like you know like I said I understand at a certain age like wanting to have somebody there with you more long term long term right and closer to you that you could see them like how often do you see her like twice a week or something okay that's not bad that's not bad yeah you should be seeing your therapist more maybe just to find out because you don't want her to like, you know, catch you. Like, I don't know how else you could sort of let her, you know, you've kind of been very upfront with her about who you are and everything, but you are doing these things online, like going and looking and like, where does that lead to and where does that stop and when does it stop, you know? Yeah, because I find myself continued

to kind of push the envelope as far as I can get. And it's only a matter of time before I fall back into my old pattern. So, yeah, I'm trying to like, do I need to tell? her all this so she just becomes more worried so she has to kind of keep an eye on me or so i figured this shit out for myself um or do i move on so yeah kind of better yeah you have to i think you got to talk to your therapist more like i said you have to see where like the all this stuff is coming from like i said is coming from a uh you're just the type of person that needs variety a lot and stuff but like i don't know it's not like she's living with you and you're seeing her all the day like you know it sounds like maybe it's you know because she's not there and given that time and you have

nothing going on that this is just like your go-to pattern of behavior that you have used to take up your time. You know what I mean? Like maybe get a fucking hobby or something else, you know, to do instead of going on those apps when you're just bored. You know, it might be just that kind of a thing, you know? Maybe it's not, I don't know so much it's about her, but you have to see where that's coming from. And maybe like, you know, you would be, it would be helpful to have like a real therapist, like once a week. That kind of thing really can help in times like this so you can figure it out because you don't want to fuck up this relationship, you know, especially if you want to move forward eventually and be closer with her, you know? Yeah, absolutely.

Because you don't want to follow your old patterns, but they just might be lingering around because, you know, they're there. You don't know, you know, but I think a therapist can help with that. You've been in therapy before, obviously. You say you see your therapist sometimes? Like, what is it, like once a month? Yeah, like once every two months. I was going every week for a while and then I thought I had everything figured out. take it.

Not so much. Yeah. I mean, I think really good. You got to listen to the Mark guys thing because, you know, they went to therapy and, you know, it really helped. And they still see a therapist through their time and everything. And I think, you know, a lot of times what people don't understand. You understand it because you went to therapist. It's like, I could say a million things to you.

Your best friend could say stuff to you. But the stuff that a real therapist that's really fucking smart and knows their shit, you know, could tell you is, could be life changing, you know. And so maybe if you're like, continue to talk to somebody, you could get to the root of your stuff and figure things out because it's still not clear for you, you know. No, absolutely. Yeah. You know, and you need to get clear because then you could see what you want, you know, and especially for this girl.

Then you can maybe have more conversations with her. I give you credit for being honest with her, you know, about all that stuff. But you don't want to fuck this one up. It's been 18 months, but like what happens two years from now, like eventually do you need to, do you start meeting somebody that you're looking on those apps? You know, does it just stop with you perusing? Like, who knows? you know, that's the slippery slope.

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, you're tempting yourself. Yeah, no, and it's, I'm pretty much as close as I can get without diving back into it. Yeah. I mean, because I really do feel like I've done the work or whatever you want to call it. I don't think it's completely finished, but I think I have made some positive stride. So, yeah, it would be pretty sure to go back on everything that's. Yes, it'd be such a waste to have gone through everything with your ex-wife.

I'm sure you both learn stuff about yourself, right? and everything that you did there and then had to go through that whole breakup. And now you're finally in a new thing. You have to have had evolved on some level, right? To have like, you know, through all these kinds of changes you've been through. So you don't want to take a step backwards. You know, you want to keep continuing to grow better. And I, it does sound like you don't want to go back to that behavior. You're not like a person that thinks that what you did was right. You don't want to do it again, you know. So maybe you might need a little help. Like I said, it just could just be a bad habit and sometimes it's hard to quit shit, you know?

Yeah, it is. Not especially with my personality. You had addict. I'm an addict. I get it. You know, you got it's like you against you. You know, you got to like you got to mind fuck yourself. And it's not, it's not easy, especially if you have an addict personality.

And you can use the help, you know, so just go back to therapy and, you know, and really talk things out so you could get more clear on where this kind of itch is coming from and why you still need to scratch it and, you know, what you could do to maybe not let that, you know, fuck up this relationship. Yeah. No, I think obvious makes a lot of sense. Yeah, but listen, thanks so much for calling in and being so honest about, you know, this whole story.

I think these kinds of stories are super important for people to hear, you know, on paper. If people didn't hear all the details, you're like sound like one of the worst cheaters imaginable. But, you know, like talking, like having talking. to you for a whole hour like there's a human being behind the the you know the sort of salacious stories that go on here right but like and I think that that's like important when people hear the whole story I think people feel might feel differently about you right like if they just read like what you've done without the emotional stuff behind it and all the explanation from you you would think one way but I feel like maybe people will feel differently hearing you explain

everything you'll still be judged okay I'm just going to tell you that you got to have a thick skin for comments. Okay, I get them all the time. But, you know, you know, it'll be interesting what people feel like. I mean, I, from your email to me, you sound like the worst kind of cheater, but I don't know that you're like that, like I said, that total philanderer that doesn't fucking care of fuck his wife's best friend and without, you know, any kind of feelings about it. You're not that guy, you know? It just sounds like there was a lot more to it and I'm glad that you called in and explained the whole story because I think when you hear the whole story, like I said, it just paints a different picture. And it's real. Your story is real. Like you had no reason to lie to me about

anything. You were very honest and I appreciate that. Yeah, no, absolutely. Well, thanks for taking the time to talk to me. Yeah. And let me tell you something what you're going to get out of this. Wait till you hear your story from the third person, like, right? Like, there's one thing of you talking about it, but when you hear this and it airs and you hear yourself talking and hear your story outside of yourself, you might sort of have some life old moments for yourself. Yeah, I'll think that has a complete piece of shit. No, but it might be the thing that makes you be like, oh my God, I got to stop fucking doing that or something. You don't know what I mean?

It might just make some things when you hear, like I said, hearing your story outside of yourself is going to be a very interesting sort of view that you would never get if you didn't sort of put yourself on tape like this. So, you know, let me know what you think after you hear it. Yeah, no, that's really your point. Yeah. Yeah. And go back to therapy. And good luck with everything. So you don't fuck this up, okay?

I'm glad. Listen, I love therapy. And at least you're a fucking guy that believes in it. You know what I mean? It's like, there's still some people that think like, oh, I don't know, I'm not going to therapy.

I'm not fucked up. It's like, everyone could use some therapy at different times of their life. It's like ridiculous. I love that you're open to it, but you need it now. So go use it.

Don't fuck up this relationship. Keep me posted on what you think of the episode. And thanks so much for calling in. Okay. Thank you, Kathy. I appreciate it. Thanks, Mark. Bye.

Bye. Good news. Strictly Anonymous podcast is looking for people to call into the show. So if you, You lead an interesting, naughty secret life that you want to talk about while remaining anonymous or not anonymous. If you're out and proud, that's cool too.

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