Strictly Anonymous Confessions - 1412 - Veronica & her Husband Enjoy Hotwifing, Couple Swaps, Hotel Takeovers and More

Episode Date: March 30, 2026

Veronica and her husband enjoy hotwifing, couple swaps, hotel take overs anymore and she called in to talk all about it. Tune in to hear all the details including how her and her husband wound up in threesome with their babysitter, the soft swapping they did when they were younger, how and why things stopped for awhile and then started up again, how she found out her husband was very into compersion, the first guy she hooked up with solo and what went down with husband afterwards, how and why her husband freaked out and how they got through it,  the second guy she hooked up with and what went down, their first trip to a sex club and what happened, the couple swaps they have had at a swingers club, how she realized she also enjoys seeing her husband with another partner, what they enjoy about hotel takeovers, how bth her and her husband have controlled the insecure voices in their heads that have come up while in the lifestyle, tips on how others can control the voices and how she has used the tips in times of jealousy, how ad why communication is key in lifestyle plus a whole lot more. GET A COPY OF THE STRICTLY ANONYMOUS BOOK! Strictly Anonymous Confessions: Secret Sex Lives of Total Strangers. A bunch of short, super sexy, TRUE stories. GET YOUR COPY HERE: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://amzn.to/4i7hBCd⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ To see HOT pics of my female guests + hear anonymous confessions + get all the episodes early and AD FREE, join my Patreon! It's only $7 a month and you can cancel at any time. You can sign up here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.patreon.com/StrictlyAnonymousPodcast⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and when you join, I'll throw in a complimentary link to my private Discord! To join SDC and get a FREE Trial! click here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.sdc.com/?ref=37712⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ or go to SDC.com and use my code 37712   Want to be on the show? Email me at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠[e-mail]⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ or go to ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://www.strictlyanonymouspodcast.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and click on "Be on the Show." Want to confess while remaining anonymous? Call the CONFESSIONS hotline at 347-420-3579. All voices are changed.   Sponsors:  ⁠https://inda.shop/STRICTLY⁠ If you’re 21 or older, get 40% OFF your first order @IndaCloud with code STRICTLY  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://beducate.me/pd2610-anonymous⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ — Click here to take the quiz and  get your personalized roadmap to sexual happiness ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.quince.com/strictlyanon⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ — For premium quality Quince clothing plus FREE shipping and 365 day returns! ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://bluechew.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ — Get 10% OFF your first month of Bluechew GOLD! Use code: STRICTLYANON⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://LoadBoost.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ — To get 10% off LOAD BOOST by VB Health use code: STRICTLY Follow me! Instagram  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.instagram.com/strictanonymous/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ X  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://twitter.com/strictanonymous?lang=en⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Website  ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://www.strictlyanonymouspodcast.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Everything else: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://linktr.ee/Strictlyanonymouspodcast⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

If you want to be on the show, it's called strictly anonymous because I change everybody's voices and everyone's name. So if you have an interesting, naughty secret life or even just regular not so naughty life that you want to talk about while remaining anonymous or not anonymous, if you're out and proud, that's cool too. You can be on the show. I also look for like health related stories now. I have a sexual health Saturdays. So if you have any kind of interesting health story, I love stuff like that, health and fitness story. You could send me an email at Strictly Anonymous Podcast at gmail.com or just go to my website, strictly anonymouspodcast.com, and click on Beyond the show. If you have a naughty confession that you want to leave on my confessions hotline, you could do that 247.4-7.4-203579. That's 347-4-4-203579. Some of those confessions make it on to a confessions episode. And I talk about them. The rest of them all go up on my Patreon. My Patreon is a great. great place. Listen, if you're annoyed with these beginning intros and you don't want to hear

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could cancel it anytime or you could buy my book. I have a book. It's called Strictly non-mis confession. Secret Sex Lives of Total Strangers. It's like 17 stories from my show told in the third person. They're quick short stories. Think like Penthouse Forum letters or naughty true stories. All in one book. If you get my buck on Amazon or wherever you buy books, you could get it. Send me a screenshot of your order. And I'll also give you complimentary access to my private discore.

My Discord is effing great. That's where you could go in and post your own stuff. My Discord is super fun. People get very naughty on there. We have lots of contests. Tons of different channels with all kinds of content. But it is private. And I only give links to either my guests.

if you call into the show, you get a link to my Discord or get my book or join my Patreon. You get it from all that. Last thing I want to tell you about is, if you are looking to get into the lifestyle, the site, I recommend to everybody is SDC.com. SDC.com is like the world's largest online adult dating site, but it's so much more than a dating site. It's more than a pickup place, okay? You go on there, you're going to learn everything about the lifestyle.

They have live events. They have educational stuff that you can learn on there. They also will tell you where all the gangbangs and swing or clubs. and orgies and parties that are going on in your area and your neighborhood, or if you're traveling, you can find out what's going on there too. That's what's great about SDC. It's like a one-stop shop for the lifestyle. And if you use my code 37712, you're going to get a free trial so you could check it out.

So go to SDC.com, use code 371.2, or just go to the description and click on the link. All the links, everything I told you about including my Patreon is in the description. So anyway, today I have on Veronica. Veronica. I love Veronica. I was up the end. I was like, I could talk psychology with you for like two more hours because she is getting her PhD in psychology. But we don't talk about that. We only talk about that a little bit at the end. She ties it into the lifestyle, which her and her husband have been in. For a long time, they started in their 20s doing crazy things together. They were always pretty open-minded. And then things got shut down for many, many years. And she talks about why it was shut down. And then she talks about how her and her husband got back into things and what he revealed to her and what he was hiding from her and what she found. out and what they eventually got into, which was a lot of hot wafing in the beginning. She talks about how her husband really flipped out the first time. I think that's a super

interesting part of her story. She talks about how they work through it and then how they got back into everything and then they really started to go hardcore. They sort of been there, done that. They've been to hotel takeovers. They've been to sex parties. They're putting together like a high end sex party. They want to do that. They've done a lot of couples. She has a lot of stories. And then she's getting her PhD, like I said, in psychology. And so we talk a lot about like insecurity and jealousy and the lifestyle and things coming up and how to deal with them. She's doing a whole thesis on it. So it's super interesting to hear. You're going to love her story. I've picked over on my Patreon. The link to that is in the description. But anyway, I'm going to get

right to and be right back on my Veronica. Hi, Veronica. Welcome to the strictly anonymous podcast. How are you today? I'm great. How are you? Good. You sound super young, but you're like 50? You sound like you're 25. Thanks. Well, what you were doing when you were 25 or even earlier, weren't you like having like, you know, you guys live, first of all, this is the deal. You and your guy are like having a blast and doing all kinds of things together now. But ever since you were like 23, are you swingers? Are you like, what are your guys deal that you, like, what have you been doing since you're 22? So I don't really label us as anything. We're just going to do whatever is fun, I guess. But like, like, is it threesomes? Is it couple swaps? Is it sex parties? Is it nothing?

of that. Oh, okay. No, all of that. Yeah, that's what I figured. Okay, good. So I don't mind not having the label because I think Swingers is very specific, right? And then there's like other kinds of labels, but you're like into it all is what you're saying, which is even better if you asked me. But you've been doing this since you're, you and your guy have been doing stuff like this since you're 20, you guys were 22. Yeah. So that's like a long time. I feel like you're ahead of the game, right? Or ahead of the, the, what is the times? Because like nowadays I feel like people are so much more open or maybe it's because, because we have so much social media and podcasts out there that we hear about it more. I don't know which it is, but I think, because I've been doing my show for like 12 years now, I definitely see a difference of more people getting into the lifestyle and more couples opening up and the younger people being more open to alternative lifestyles and stuff, you know, for sure. When you guys were doing it, do you see that change too as well, considering you guys been doing it for like over 20 years? Well, it's just different now. So when we did it when we were younger, it was like with our friends. So we were doing it with our friends. So our peers were doing it too.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, were you just drunk? Some of the times, but I don't drink. So I did a little bit back then, but the majority of the time, I was sober. They all might be, like, they may have been drunk, but I was sober. But I mean, like, how does a bunch of, like, 20-something-year-old friends decide to start, like, you know, a couple swapping and all that shit together? I mean, listen, I was a drinker and I worked bars and stuff like that. So like it would wind out. I feel like I've been in some orgies, but they didn't feel like orgies, you know, because it's just like a drunken mess, you know? So sometimes I wonder, was it intentional, like, this is what we're doing or was it like drunk in

sex stuff when you're young? I guess drunken sex stuff. I would definitely categorize it under that. Yeah. But like our first time, one of my friends was watching our son. He was little like four months old. Oh, so you're already married with kids at this point. Yeah. Okay. We had a child. We weren't married. We'd been together since we were 17. Oh my God. Okay. We just had a child. We were 22. And so we went out one night and then we came home. She was watching our son and I don't know. Somehow the three of us ended up in bed. I don't know how. I love that sentence. I don't know. It just happened. Me and my baby daddy wound up in bed with the babysitter. I know how to make a good title. You don't know who made the first move or anything? No, I really don't remember.

I just remember us all in bed. Yeah. And then after that, at the time, we were planning our wedding. My son was, I guess, at the time. So we had, not that we had a ton of issues or we kind of had some little thing. We were young. We were 22. We didn't know what the hell we were doing.

Yeah. And I had met somebody else. That friend, her neighbor, so I had met somebody. So I had met somebody. And I had already kind of given my fiancé at the time, kind of like if things don't change, I'm out of here. Oh, okay. And so we, I kind of ended up hooking up with that other guy, like talking to him, but we

actually weren't having sex. And this is like kind of an important part of the story. So I ended up like dating him and calling off my wedding. And it was kind of a situation. But I ended up getting back with my husband. I just have to like throw that piece in for a minute because it's going to come back into the story later. Okay, perfect. So we ended up having another experience with that same girl the first time. And then from like the ages of like 25 to 30, we were just kind of, I don't know,

messing around. We had a hot tub. That's what I'm going to say. We had a hot tub and for some reason somebody ended up with no clothes on in the hot tub and it always led to something. So we kind of ended up like doing a couple, like a lot of things with mostly my friends. except there was one couple that we would connect with for like several years, like probably eight times maybe over, I don't know, two years, I guess. So it was more of a, I guess, soft swap. We didn't have intercourse with the others. Oh, okay.

But we did everything else. And was that just like a rule that you guys had decided back then? No, we never. So back then, we never even talked about anything after. Right. We just never mentioned it again. And you didn't talk before either. No. There was none of that going on. Yeah. So what I found out later was that when I was with the other guy, like if I was blowing him or like, I don't know, I used to take his cock and like put it right next to like my pussy, but not in it. And I found out like later that my husband was actually really turned on by that and watching it. When I thought he was actually doing whatever with the girl, but later finding out that he was watching it. So we had a few times with them. And, and. And

And then everything stopped. So we, I'm going to just kind of go briefly into this. No, I love it. Go for it. We have a whole hour. My middle child unexpectedly passed away and asleep. So it kind of stopped everything. And then it got to the place where like now my kids were moved out.

They were grown up. And I just said to my husband, like I wanted to sell the house. Like we were just kind of done there and I knew that. And at the time, I was in school. I was finishing up because when all of that had happened, And I also had quit school, like everything, life stops. So now moving forward, I'm back in school for psychology. And I have done so much inner work that I'm tired of it.

I don't want anything to do with self-help for myself anymore. Like I'm just done. And I start listening to your podcast. And it really, like, honestly, this was the catalyst to come. Okay. So I start listening to your podcast like on repeat, like every one of the episodes, just to have something new in my mind and just something for, It got me back into thinking of all the things that we used to do and all the fun we used to have.

And so I started to have my husband listen to them with us or with me. And so we would listen to them together. And it kind of actually, before I go into that, I have to go into another spot. Before my son passed away, there was somebody else that came into my life that I just became friends with that I went to the gym with. He worked at the gym. And another little piece of this is when I was like seven, I said I was going to marry. I named all my kens, my husband's name. And remember, I was talking about the first guy that I had something with?

Yeah. It was that same name. And now this person is also the same name. Oh, and the same name as your husband, the name that you read that you said just threw out their psychically at seven. Same names. Yeah. Wow, that's kind of interesting, right?

Right. So all of them have been the same name. Oh, my God. So now, so I'm talking to this guy at the gym, but we're just friends, but my husband thinks more is going on. Yeah. So again, this is going to be like another piece of it later. Yeah, because you guys are going to bang that guy. Exactly.

No, no. Oh, okay. That's what I think. So now moving forward, everything is soft. I'm back in school. We're listening to your podcast. And we start talking about all the things again, basically talking about like what we like. And just, it started to really open up such great dialogue between us.

So my husband started sharing with me all of these different experiences that I wasn't aware of, of how much he didn't know the name of it, but is into compersion. And so when he thought I was out with either of those other guys, when we were younger, he was getting turned on, even though he was very conflicted because he was also jealous. So he went through that whole dynamic of feeling jealous, but also turned on. And then he had shared with me that he would even, like, jerk off into my underwear. like he was just so conflicted with it all, but he's sharing all of this now. Finally.

So he was holding that in all that time. Yes. Interesting. Yeah. So when I would come home, like he would immediately like take my clothes off, go down on me. And I thought he missed me. Like I had no idea what was going on. And I was like, wow.

This is like, you know, he's getting really turned on by me going out. This is fantastic. Yeah. But little did I know it was what I was, what, what he thought I was doing was actually turning him on. So he started sharing about all of that. And I started sharing things with him, because again, we never talked about it when we were younger. So I started sharing with him that, like, I was really into, well, I thought it was really hot. I hadn't tried it like this, but I was like, I think group sex, orgy, like that's like a turn on. Hands everywhere. I'm a very sensual person.

So to have hands everywhere and just not know whose hands is who, I was like, that's hot. And I'm really into guy on guy play, but like masculine guy on guy. So I started sharing, like we started just opening up about all of these different things. And then in, I would say, like around 2024, we started to go on sites that you had mentioned like STC. And it was very anonymous, like just kind of looking. And we were just tippy towing in there. And then one night, it's the classic story. We went to a strip joint.

And that opened again. By the way, back in the day, before you stopped, you had been. been with women, I'm assuming. Yes. Okay. Okay, go on. So we go to a strip joint and I end up with one of the strippers backstage and had a great time and everything.

And then that just kind of like lit the fire. And I guess we started going from there. So we decided to like actually go on one of the sites and see if we could actually meet somebody, not just be the observers of it all. Hey, everyone. Let me ask you something. When was the last time you and your partner were. actually really relaxed together at the end of the day.

Not thinking about work, not stressed out from the day. Just relaxed and enjoying each other. Because I don't know about you, but the older I get, the more I realize relaxation might be the most underrated Afrodisiac ever. If you can't let go of all the stuff you dealt with during the day, it's pretty hard to really enjoy your partner the way you should. And that's where Indicloud comes in.

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free gifts on any order over $120. And don't forget to fill out the survey when you order because it really helps support the show. Yes. Okay. Okay. Go on. So we go to a strip joint and I end up with one of the strippers backstage and had a great

time and everything. And then that just kind of like lit the fire. And I guess we started going from there. So we decided to like actually go on one of the. the sites and see if we could actually meet somebody, not just be the observers of it all. Right. So I decided to be the vetter because I feel like I'm more intuitive and I can just kind of feel into things a little bit better.

So I started talking to one man and I don't know, we just hit it off. We ended up meeting him like on a random Thursday night. The next thing I know, we're back at his place having a threesome. And it was like incredible. It was so, so incredible. We had so much fun. Because this is the first time you're getting to like fuck the other. guy, you know now that your husband's totally into it, right?

Yeah. So it was completely different. So, like, having that experience was just, it was so amazing. Not necessarily just, like, I mean, it was fun to be with the guy, but to see my husband's excitement was mind-blowing because now he was free. Well, that's a conversion for you. Yeah, exactly. It was so exciting.

So we had done that, and then we did that a couple of times with him. and then my husband was out of town and he said, oh, you know what? I missed a part. I need to back up a little bit. I got ahead of myself. So now I'm in my PhD program. And my husband and I had said that we wanted to do this and we were going to move forward. I can't believe I forgot this.

So I had someone in my program who was coming out to my town and had asked me to meet for coffee. And I was kind of joking with my husband and I said, oh, well, hey, this could kind of be good. I could seduce this guy, like just joking about it. And he kind of said, all right. So I'm actually really introverted. I'm really shy. I'm not somebody who just like openly just would say hi to someone. And so I end up meeting this person for lunch. And we're sitting there and it's like one point of the conversation. He's kind of staring at me. And I'm like, oh, here's my shot. I have to say something. And I just was like, why are you staring at me? What are you thinking? And he said, I can't tell you it's inappropriate. And I was like, well, you might want to tell me.

So he ended up saying how he wanted to kiss me And I said, what if I told you that was okay? He said, what do you mean? Two freaks smell each other from a mile away. Right? 100%. I was like, so would you like to have a threesome? And I couldn't even believe it came out of my mouth.

It just like blurted out. And he's just staring at me. Like what? How old are you? By the way, in this chronological story, like how old are you guys at this point? So this was actually on my 51st birthday. Okay, so this is recently. So we fast forwarded like a lot of years.

between and now you're like back at it. Okay, cool. I love it. Go on. So he's like, well, what if we just started with you and I first? How about the guy? Well, uh, 37. Okay, so he's a younger guy. Yeah. So he was like down for that. And so I, I ended up calling my husband and saying, oh my gosh, yes, he wants to do it. Actually, when I was, so we were at like some cafe and we went outside to walk around just like get fresh air. And when I was walking, I looked at. And I was walking, I look in front of me and my husband has a work truck and I see it right in front of me like I wasn't expecting it so I just kind of paused and like I didn't know what to do because I see his truck right there so he had been spying on us but I didn't know so I thought he was looking right at us so I just

turned to the guy and kiss him like out of nowhere right and then I'm and I'm done and he's just looking at me like oh wow you know you just kissed me right here I'm thinking my husband saw the whole thing he didn't even see it oh no I know. Anyways, so I call my husband and tell him, like, the whole plan or whatever, we're going to meet later that night, and he's, like, down for that. So my husband rents us, rents me, I should say, a hotel room, and the guy gets his own hotel room. But I wanted my own room, so, like, he didn't have to stay after anything, like he would just be able to leave. And that was one of the things my husband wanted was he wanted him to leave right away. So I meet the guy in

the room and I'm terrified. I haven't been with anyone myself, like, since I was 17. And we go in the room and I'm like, so, do you want to talk? And he's just kind of looking at me like, are you serious? So we end up, we end up, after a few minutes or a little while, we end up fooling around. And I, like, so he wore a condom, but I remember feeling it like, oh shit, I think he may have, like, it may have slipped off or something. Like, I could feel it down my leg. And I was just kind of like that oh fuck. And so he leaves. My husband comes in immediately and goes down on me right away.

And he's like on my leg. Like I noticed like he's licking my leg. So he notices it. Yeah. Is the guy still there when you're done? No, he left. Oh, he left. Okay, go on.

He left. So my husband's like going down on me, licking my leg and then fucking me and he comes so fast. like just so fast and then we leave. And everything's amazing for about four days. And then Kathy, it went to shit. Like when I tell you shit, it went to shit. No offense, but I thought we were going to get divorced. No offense, but I like a gone wrong part of her story.

It's kind of interesting. What the fuck? What happens? His inner dialogue got the best of him and he like was losing his mind. You know, I love that. I just had a guy recently to make a comment on some place like, oh, I just tried this and I didn't realize how upset I was going to be afterwards. I mean, it could happen.

It's not, he's not the first guy. I've heard that happen to. And what happened? What did he say to you? So we, he just started freaking out that I wasn't respecting him. I didn't make the guy leave fast enough. And any time I would try to like explain myself,

he would say that I was defending the guy. You didn't do what? Fast enough? I didn't make him leave fast enough. Like when he was finished. Oh, okay. I didn't make him like leave the room fast enough. And he was,

he was saying I was defending him, but I was just trying to explain myself that we went really fast afterwards. I really was trying to get him out. But I mean, there's only so fast you could go. He had to like put his clothes on. Of course. You know, and he was just having a lot of, like, he was spiraling with his inner dialogue just going and going. Yeah. And I'm sorry, but what's the difference between 10 minutes and 20 minutes? At that point is probably a lot deeper than just what time he was. Oh, it definitely was. Of course. Yeah. Yeah. So. But he's probably not putting that together. He probably thinks that is the reason. That's how guys are.

You know what I mean? He doesn't know. Well, why he feels. I'm arguing, though, this whole time with him saying, this is deeper than this. Exactly. But, like, unfortunately, you're married to a psychologist. Like, this isn't going to just go under the rug now. Like, we need to talk about this. Yeah. So it was just so bad.

We were screaming at each other. Like, we just don't do that. We never have. And it was really bad. And for about maybe three weeks. And then everything changed. We got back to, like, he clicked and he got back into himself. you know, crazy man went away and he was back.

And I just said, I'm never, ever doing that without you ever again because I just, I'm not willing to, like, risk our relationship over this. Yeah, of course. It's supposed to be for your relationship. Exactly. Like, we were never missing anything. And now I feel like, you're not there to bang that guy. You're doing it for something between you and your husband.

So he's not into it. What's the point? Right. So we kind of, like, we're just deciding to, like, do everything together at that point. And then when I was with that, so we had that three-sum with the guy that we had met. And then it happened again with the three of us. And then my husband was out of town and that's when he had asked me to go over there. And I was like, oh, no, I'm not doing this again.

That's a trap. Right, exactly. I'm like, you're trapping me and I'm not doing it. And he said, no, no, no, I promise you, I'm okay. I've been working through this. Like, it'll be fine. And we just never have fought like that. And I had no reason not to believe him.

And so I said, all right, if you promise. like everything's going to be fine because if it's not, we're not going to be fine. Right. So if you give me a word and he said he did. So I went over to the guy's house and we were both really nervous. It was funny. We ended up making sourcrow. It was so bizarre.

What? Yes. A pickling sourcrow? Yes, swear to God. We ended up making sourcrow together. And then at some point I ended up blowing him and then he got my pants off and we started 69. But I really wasn't into it. I was in my head just thinking like, I was navigating all of my own thoughts of like, this better not go so.

Like this better not go bad. Yeah. He must have been able to tell that I wasn't into it because he was really smart. He started talking about my husband. He started saying his name and like bringing him into this, this experience. And I literally came so fast as soon as he did that. And so did he. It was like simultaneous.

But because he started talking about my husband and like bringing him into it. well, after he, like, I was just like ready to go. Like I was done. I'm more of a one and done, not an over and over again. So I was like done. I just really wanted to talk to my husband. I knew his plane would be landing soon and I just wanted to talk to him and make sure everything was good and all of that. And it was.

Everything was totally fine. It was perfect. My husband, like, really enjoyed that story and hearing all of the details. And he loved that, you know, he came in my mouth and he wanted to hear every single detail. So we ended up going on the websites, like all different websites, and just kind of checking those out and stuff. And we met a lot of really, really great people. And some couples we actually have become really good friends with that we don't do anything with, but some of them were just really good friends with. And then there's other couples that we have fooled around with that we've met through there and also become good friends with.

Like, we've had amazing experiences. Like so in our, I would say like in the next state over, but it's not too far from us, there is a sex club. So we started going to that, which I love. I have so much fun there. And that's the first time recently that you went. Yes. And I never went to a sex club before. Before it was basically in my hot tub or in my living room.

This time around, like we're going like full on into like this is a sex club. And it's amazing. Now walk me through that whole experience. Are you going there and like everything's on the table? Because at this point you're doing like more hot wifing stuff for your husband. And you know, is like your husband down to like be with other women too? what are you expecting to do at the swinger club? So the way that we kind of have had it with us is like,

everything is in the moment. It's really situational. He's not that interested in being with other women. He likes to see me. Yes. However, like he will get involved. So it typically will be with me. So if like I'm getting fucked,

then I'm blowing him. But sometimes if I'm pulling around with a girl and then like we'll both blow him or he'll let her. But it just has to really. depends on him and how much he wants to play, but he doesn't want to feel obligated to anything. So he likes to label me as like the unicorn and then he intervenes when he chooses to. So that was our intention. Pretty much it's always our intention like when we go out. And also for me, like I don't I don't get turned on by seeing him with someone else.

Always. Like sometimes I do and sometimes I don't. That's interesting. It's important to me that like I have to feel it in that moment that I want him. him, but if that makes sense, like, so sometimes I'm just so into watching, like, a girl blow him or whatever, and other times I'm just kind of not there. How come do you think? I don't really know.

It's just sometimes it turns me on and sometimes it doesn't. And the only thing I can, I think it might be, it's like, depending on where we are, like, am I having a bad day? Am I feeling sad? I don't know, like, maybe something like that, but I haven't really linked it up with anything. It doesn't have anything to do with the girl. No, not at all. Okay.

Like, it's not like maybe if the girl's more attractive or whatever. whatever. No. Okay. Because I didn't know if you were into women because you have fooled around with women. I mean, I am into women, but not like, it just depends on, like, I'd rather be with them than see him with them. Right.

Okay. Yeah, I guess. So when we went there, like, that was just our intention just to have a good time. And if anything happened, it happened and kind of go by our guidelines of whatever that was at that night or whatever. And the first night we went there. So they have, like, all of these different rooms that you can go into. they're all themed and then in the back room is an orgy room.

So at some point in the night, we had met a couple that we were just talking to. And they said, do you want to go back here? I had told my husband, don't leave my side. Do not leave my side. Just promise me you're going to stay right near me because, like, I'm so nervous going into this place. Yeah. So he's like, are you okay? I'm going to go get a drink.

All right. So he goes and gets the drink. I'm with the couple. Well, I end up leaving and they like pull me back into the orgy room. and the next thing I know I'm on the coach with both of them, and my husband kind of walks around. He didn't know where I went. He walks around the corner and he sees me in between this couple.

And I just look at him like, is this all right? And he gives me a thumbs up. Like, it's cool. Keep going. And so we were on there. And then he did join in a little bit there. And then so that all happened. And then we went there like pretty much a couple weekends in a row.

almost. And then we met another couple there that we've played with several times. I really like their energy. What goes down when you couple swap with that? So I meet this couple. We were talking to them for about like two hours. And then I said, do you want to go back here? Let's go look at the orgy room, like see what's going on in there.

So we go back there and there's people doing their thing. We're kind of watching for a few minutes. And then I take the girls, the woman's hand. I shouldn't say girl. The woman, she's my age. And I take her and I'm like, do you want to go over here with me? And so she says, yeah. So we go on to the big couch and we start playing.

And then we get her partner's hands. He comes over. He starts playing with us. I tried to get my husband, but he didn't want to yet. And so the three of us all were playing. So it was like I would go down on her or she would go down on me or her partner would be fucking her. And one of the things like my husband loves is for me to take his cock-off.

of her and suck it and then put it back in her. Uh-huh. So, like, we'll do that and then... But does he never go when you're with that couple, right? Like, is he just never engaging with the woman? Sometimes they will. Oh, okay. Because I was just wondering if they're a couple, right?

And you're doing everything with it. Like, is the woman getting shafted if your guy's not always down because he's not that into it? I don't think so because I'm usually with the woman. So, like... Oh, right. Right. Maybe she doesn't care.

Yeah. I mean, I haven't had anyone say anything so far. So I don't know. But at one point, he did come over and he was. I think he went down on her. And then she was like going down on him at some point. And we nobody, like we didn't switch partners for that or anything. But then we had met them again outside of the club.

And we did at that point. We did switch partners. But like the way the four of us do it is like we're still all. tangled in each other. Like, I like it. I call it an all play. I like everybody just to pile on the bed and all play. Right. Like, everybody is all in it together.

So, like, I'll be on one side of the bed, like the side of the bed, like, the side of the bed if my legs were hanging over and she's on the other side with her legs hanging over, but then our upper bodies are touching and we're kissing and rolling around or whatever. And then the guys are on the ends. Yeah. So we did that. We had met them at a hotel. and did that. And then we had also met them at that club again and the four of us played. So we've

been playing with them a lot. We did have another experience where with friends of ours that we had met on one of the sites that my husband wanted me to be their unicorn, essentially. So I asked them to come over to my house when my husband was at work. And I was really nervous because I felt like bringing them into our bedroom was a whole different ballgame. It opens up. like a different can of worms for me. Uh-huh. Why do you think? I don't know.

That's like our safe, sexy space. Right. And you've never done it there. Yeah. Like even when we were to kids, it was never in our bedroom. So this was new. So we had them over, or I had them over, and we ended up playing. So it was fun, but it was, it's just different when my husband's not there because that's

part of what gets me excited, is seeing him excited. Yeah. That makes sense. I've heard that before. that was like a little bit of a different experience that I felt like it was good, but I'd prefer him to be there. Right. He loves it. He keeps him going for days.

You mean not being there now. Yeah. Right. So he got past that first time and now he's like really into it. No more fear. No more FOMO. Yeah. And he really loves imagining the thing.

So it's not that he's looking for like pictures. He doesn't mind if we send them and like he's like happy about them. but he loves what he imagines because I think it's similar to what he did when we were younger he would just imagine everything yeah yeah of course and plus that kind of stuff like really just like last longer than just doing it you know what I mean it's like foreplay it's like long intense

drawn out foreplay it's tease and denial that kind of shit like really works for a certain kind of person that gets turned on in a certain kind of way yeah and that's his thing he loves it I'm like I could never do that ever it would drive me crazy not knowing So that's what they like, that angst of not knowing. Yeah, it's like in a, and it's like a tease kind of a thing. It is a thing. And a lot of times guys that have the hot wiping kink, if they're a little bit more extreme and they, like that's, that is a big part of it. I've heard it a lot in those kinds of guys. I didn't realize how big that piece was. I thought it was just the watching and the get in photos and all of that. But he loved hearing about it for me to tell all of the details and then him imagining what it looked like. And, And he's like, my imagination is probably a lot sexier than what actually happens.

Yeah, that's the whole point. I know, but that's probably the whole point. Right. Yeah. So essentially that's what, like, all of that have transpired with us in the couple. I don't know if it'll happen again or not. It happened a lot. It sounds like you're with them a lot.

Yeah. Well, the couple that were with a lot, that one were with. with a lot. The couple that we met at the club. Uh-huh. That one we've been playing with more. Okay. And I just like love her energy and I love going down on a girl. So that is something that, um, well, obviously my husband loves hearing about, but it's kind of a joke because I can go for so long. And so meaning you could go down on the girl for so long or you could go. Yeah. Oh, okay. Okay. You mean you're just like it so much that you don't, you don't mind if she takes a really long time to come. Yeah. Well, no, it's, It seems like everyone were with.

They're all multiple comers. Oh, that's great. Yeah. And I tend not to unless, like, I only do with my husband, to be careful of the name, my husband versus myself, like, being with them. So it's kind of like foreplay for me until I get with my husband. Okay. Because you only orgasm from your husband is what you're saying.

Generally, yeah. Okay. There was that one time from that one person, the guy. Uh-huh. But when he was talking about my husband, like naming him and stuff. But other than that, yes, it's only been with my husband. Right. But you love going down on girls so much that they could, you'll, you're fine to go down

there and give them 10 orgasms. Yeah, I'll just keep going. And I'm not, like, I'm more of the pleaser than being pleased. I'd rather do the things than have them done to me. Yeah, I get that. That is a type of personality too, that, the type of person that, like, you've got the compulsion you like to turn somebody on. Yeah.

That makes you turn on. Yeah. So that part is always fun for me. But then it's like the guy. part that I love giving oral sex. I really love that part. Mouts are so fun for me. Like I, that's my biggest attraction. And I think my best feature is my mouth. Like, I'm really into lips and teeth. Like, I love full lips and beautiful teeth. Then you could understand why I had that booty cool guy that I never kissed him once and just fucked him because I didn't like his mouth.

I'm very into mouths too. Yeah. See, that's such a big turn on to me. Like my or it could be a turn off is what I'm saying, right? Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. So much. Yeah. I get it. And there's, And there's not a lot of good chasers out there. And I'm like, people don't know how to kiss. Isn't that weird? I don't understand. Yes. I'm like, where's your tongue?

Like, what's happening? So that's really important to me. So that's like such a turn on to me that if I don't have that component, it kind of like, I'm not there. With my husband and I, I probably could like even come from just kissing him. Right. Because we're just like that. Well, you said you were very, very sensual kind of person.

Yeah. And I think kissing is very sensual, you know? A hundred percent. So I guess I'd rather use my mouth in like a different way so that I still feel like it's it still feels very central to me like giving oral sex whether to a female or male. Right. So you also like going down on the guys too. Yeah.

Versus like getting fucked. I mean it's nice but like I can do without it's not like a huge thing. Yeah. Yeah. Do you swallow? Only my husband. Okay. but no not everyone else.

Okay. I'm kind of a freak about that. I get really nervous about. That's okay. Yeah, I get it. But yeah, with my husband, I do. So those were the couples. Yes.

And then so the other part of what I was going to like, well, there was actually two other pieces. So with one of the couples that we became really good friends with and we're not doing anything with because we became such good friends, we're also starting a business together, which is. doing an upscale couples event. So we started getting into that, which I'm really excited about. When is the first event going to happen?

We don't know. We're in the process of doing it all right now. Okay, setting it up and getting the people and doing all that stuff, you mean? We're getting a mailing list. Oh, okay, but you have the people. Well, we both, all of us know a lot of people because we go to all of these events. We've been going to hotel takeovers, which have been so much fun. We've met so many great people.

we haven't done anything at them, but they are really fun events. And a lot of people do do stuff there. We just haven't met anyone that we did anything with. That's interesting. But you like to be there because there's just like a lot of stuff going on and you could see it and everything? You just get to meet a lot of people in the community. So it's social. Yeah, it's definitely social for us for that.

Now, the sex club is different, but the hostel takeovers, at least the ones we go to, there's not a lot of stuff that you can see going on. You know things are going on. But there's not a lot going on in the open. But socially, it's really cool because you're getting with a lot of like-minded people. Right. The first guy that we had been with, he said to me, he was like, I love this lifestyle because of the community. And I really didn't get it back then.

But now I get it. Right. Of how people are so transparent that at least my experience with them has been. They're so transparent that it's, they're just so who they are. There's no bullshit, which I really respect. That makes sense. Is that why you decided, because now that you do have a very big community that you thought to do this upscale event, something that you feel like maybe is missing in the community

that you want to put together? Exactly. It's a little bit. I mean, they're nice. They're fine. But I think that something can be a little bit more upscale, a little bit of black tie, like just a little bit nicer. Yeah, I love that idea.

And offer like dinner and just kind of, I think that it was you who, was talking about the, is it called the rooftop maybe? Yeah. There's a lot of them. In New York. Top floor. Top floor. That's it.

So something like along the lines of those or that. That I, like that's kind of what my vision is or like all of us. So that is something that we're in the process of doing. But another piece I think that's so important is that so as I mentioned like I'm getting my PhD in psychology and my dissertation. was going to be on sexuality, but I ended up changing it just to doing more of metacognition or inner dialogue. Because one of the things that I've noticed through my sexual journey, I guess, is when you can

start navigating that inner dialogue in this area of your life, you can transfer it over to every other area. That's kind of interesting, meaning like, explain that in real terms, like what you mean by that. So we all have an inner dialogue, right? You mean, just that voice is in your head that's a crazy thing sometimes just going to ignore it. All the time. A lot of people can't ignore it and they think it's real. I have to ignore mine.

Right? So your brain can tell you you're a lemon. It doesn't mean you're a lemon. Exactly. I can tell you anything, but it doesn't mean it's true. And so many women that I have met throughout this community and men, like they have inner dialogue while things are transpiring. Like when they're playing with other couples or maybe their wife is playing with somebody else. and their mind starts going, or like my husband when you went cuckoo for a few days.

Yeah. And his mind started to go. And so we can navigate that. We don't have to just listen to it. There's ways that we can, you know, learn to not just ignore it, but actually navigate it and take control again. And when we start, you almost have to in this lifestyle. I can't imagine somebody who doesn't do that in this type of environment because they probably wouldn't be able to do it if they couldn't do that in some capacity. But then taking that and you transfer it to other areas of your life, whether it be finance or career.

So it's like if somebody, I don't know if you're the person that every time you go by grapes, you're like, oh, I can't afford these. These are so expensive. And that's your mindset that like, I don't know, all the fruit is so expensive. It's again navigating those thoughts. Does that make sense? Yeah, everyone has thoughts constantly, 24 hours a day and everything that you do. It's always there, right? We all know it.

We all know that it's happening. You know what I mean? For sure. And I think it is. I mean, I used to get very invested in those thoughts and think that they were real. Now, as an older person, I just don't even pay attention to them. They could just exist. It doesn't mean anything to me.

They're just, it's crazy talk as far as I'm concerned. And I could completely detach from it and it doesn't affect me in the slightest. But it's still there. It doesn't fucking go away. Right. And it never will go away. It doesn't go away. But so many people don't know how to navigate it.

Yeah, they take it too seriously. They don't know how to do what you're doing. Yeah. They take it seriously and they start identifying with it. Yes. Absolutely. And for myself, the more I became, I guess, like, the more I started to become courageous and just doing the things that I wanted to do and not listening to the inner dialogue,

the more I carried it into every area of my life. Right. And saw what a difference it made. It's like sex made me strong or empowered me in a very, very different way than I ever expected. Yeah, talk more on that. I think that that's super important. And do you think that like what you're talking about is what helped your husband get out of it. Like maybe he still has those voices, but took control of it or figure out how to navigate

them? Oh, 100%. Yes, definitely. Because again, that was all the old stories playing from whenever when we were kids. And that's what was coming back up for him. And that's what my big argument with him was that was trying to explain to him. Those are just your stories. They're not the truth. This is not what just happened. Yeah. Yeah. And so it was like learning to say, like, let's just stop for a second. Can you like observe those thoughts and not actually be done? because he's, you know, he was at that point where he's saying, no, you did this and you did that. And I'm like, whoa, no, that did not happen. Right.

Just because your brain is telling you it did, it didn't. You know, that's your perspective and you can hold on to it, but that's not the truth. There's no ultimate truth here. But how do you do that if you're doing it? This is your thesis, right? So you're working on it. Like, how would you tell somebody like the top three tips on like how to sort of get control of those thoughts? Well, first you have to be aware of them.

Not everyone is. Yeah, you're right. That's the biggest problem. Yeah. You have to know that they're there. And then once you're aware of them to be able to look at them objectively, like, I don't know, they're like clouds floating by. Like, they're nothing more than that. They're just a thought. And for myself, like, attaching it to something a little bit more tangible, like, wait, my brain can say I'm a lemon. It doesn't mean I am. Or my brain can say I'm a millionaire. It doesn't mean I am. My brain can say a lot of things and, like, reminding myself of that. And then all we have to do is be aware of the. them and pause, like, and just breathe. So as long as we pause for that second and we're aware of them and can observe them. So for me, like, one of the things that I do is I actually say, like, isn't that interesting? So I kind of just look at it with curiosity. Like, isn't it interesting that my brain thinks I'm fat right now? Because I actually don't, I didn't feel fat 10 minutes ago. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, so just kind of like objectively looking at it like it's another entity

and then pulling myself back in and then choosing in the moment what I want to do. No, I really want to go fuck that girl and guy. Yeah. I want to do this. You know, in my brain, no, no, you shouldn't do that. Yeah. That's bad.

Or, you know, wait, isn't it interesting that my brain thinks this is bad? But I actually want to do it. So why is there something wrong with it if I want to do it? Right. What if everybody says something? You know, and so you're just navigating it going back and forth. And that, just taking the breath, it's like game change. danger. Yes, for sure. And I also think that this applies to feelings. I feel besides the voices in my

head, I have feelings I'd come across on a daily basis that I just don't even pay attention to because they don't mean anything. And I think sometimes people really buy into like a wave of like depression or a wave of like darkness and they think it means something. And they don't, I have feelings that don't mean anything. And they just come over me and I just don't pay attention because I know in two hours or the next day, I'm going to feel completely different. But people get very fatalistic over stuff like that. I know. And I'm kind of like the reason I'm not an actual mental health therapist and I'm a research psychologist is because like to me depression is you're just thinking the same thoughts over and over and over again. Right? So you need to break the loop. We don't need to label everyone depressed. And I say that with love and grace. I'm just saying that you're just thinking repetitive thoughts. If you break the loop, you're not going to think them. But you have to take that initiative and not for like people struggle because they're like, well, I don't know how to. stop trying to make them go away.

Exactly. You're never going to make them go away. Because they say what you resist persists, right? I think it was when I stopped taking them seriously and stopped buying into anything and stop trying to change or become like this perfect person that doesn't have any of this nonsense. It's like life's too short. I probably will always have it. I just don't pay attention to it and I just move, go, keep going forward.

You know what I mean? A hundred percent. And that's the thing. It's that you're always going to have emotions. Life happens. Like it is what it is. But it doesn't mean it has to define you. you control everything. And you're like, I'm speaking from the place of like bereave mom, like

everywhere, I've been there. I think I could have allowed myself to go to a very dark place, but that's not what I'm choosing to do because I have a choice. I have sovereignty, you know. Yeah. So it's like reminding myself of that. And I think in this lifestyle, people have to have awareness of their inner dialogue. If not, they're probably going to have a really rocky road within it because things are going to come up. I don't think. And you see that happening all the time, right? For sure. I mean, I feel like it's prime place for if you don't have like a fucking grip or your feet on the ground and are pretty kind of together person, it might not be the lifestyle for you. Do you know what I mean? Because it's going to bring up a lot of shit and it can,

right? And you just, it can't be like the end all, be all like look, what happened with your husband, somebody else that maybe was younger and, you know, that could have been like grounds for divorce. You know what I mean? Like some people at a certain point in their evolution could takes a situation like that and turned it into way bigger of a thing, but you guys were able to just like sort of make it one thing, work through it and move on. And you have to be able to do that because I always say this and I think it's very true, like, especially in the lifestyle, because I know professional swinger people that are like really fucking into and do it all the time. And once in a blue moon, they might be jealous for whatever reason. They might have a feeling that isn't

comfortable or okay. But they don't stop because of it and they're able to work through it. And that's what's most important. Because it will come up. I will 100%. There are those moments that you're like, look at her tits or ass and look at mine. Yeah. But there's just these little nuances,

but there are enough that they make your brain stop. Yeah. And that could change everything. And so being able to catch that, the day that we were with the stripper, actually, my husband made one comment. It was so innocent, but he said,

her energy is like yours. And because I have the awareness that I do, I was able to go, whoa. that just made my brain go crazy. We need to have a discussion. So like in that moment, we had to communicate about that because if I didn't, my brain was like, wait. Yeah. He just said that she was like me.

That's when my brain heard. That we're the same and we're not. Like I'm your special person, not her. You know, so I wanted, like my brain wanted to go down that path and I had to be able to go, wait, stop. No. Can we have a conversation about this? What you just said? And when I talked to him about it, he had said, no, no, no, no.

That's not what I meant. I just meant that she's very sensual. like through. Right, like in this one little area. Yeah. Exactly. But my brain was going to take that and run into an entirely different direction. You know, so being able to communicate, like communication, oh my gosh, and this lifestyle is so important, like over and over and over and over again every single day, all the time. Yeah. And the reality is what's kind of funny, and I say this all the time to the vanilla people that are listening just to live vicariously through, you know, couples and are never going to do this. Like if you want to make your relationship better, just start talking to your fucking partner.

The reason why lifestyle people are so much closer when it does work out is not because they're having sex with other people. It's because they're over talking to each other because they have to because of the lifestyle. So I'm like, you don't even need to fuck other people. I think what happens in vanilla relationships is they stop talking to people. They're not having conversations. It's nothing new. You know what I mean?

It's like Groundhog Day. And so, you know, just start talking about shit with each other. And you'll be closer because of it. It brings an intimacy back to a relationship that's really needed, you know? And I think, you know, lifestyle couples have that because you cannot succeed in that in the lifestyle without talking and overtaking and communicating. It's a big part of being successful. And most people don't understand the level of intimacy that we have because of this. Exactly.

It is like, I don't even think I understand it sometimes because we're so close now. It blows my mind after all of these years and I thought we were so close before. And we weren't even No, but that's what you need to do your thesis on. It's funny because I always feel like, you know, listen, at this point, I've talked to like 1,400 people. You know, the Kinsey study, he only talked to 1,800 people. So I'm almost like there.

I feel like I have done a study. I feel like I'm an expert in the data that I have gotten from talking to people over a very long time. And I always say like, oh, what my book is here to say and what my show is here to say is not that like everybody should go out and fuck other people and live this lifestyle. I don't even do it. Maybe when I have a guy next time, though, I will, right? Because I've learned a lot.

But I'm just saying that like it's not that it's for everybody. But what I think the vanilla world doesn't understand is that it can work. And when it does work, people are closer because of it. And I don't think the vanilla people on the outside world ever can fucking get their heads wrapped around that thought. It's always like you hear regular people. I listen to regular podcasts. I'm like into Bravo and all that. You didn't know.

You just hear regular people saying stupid things like, oh, the minute you open up your relationship, it's doom for failure. Oh, that's dark. Those people are weird. So it's never going to work out. Those people don't love each other. something must be wrong. It's like none of those things exist because they haven't talked to the people. I've talked to 1,400 people. Do you know. I know and it's true. You lived it, right?

Like, look at you and your husband. You're here to say. And I think it's an important message to get, like I said, it's not for everybody. It's not that you have to do this to have a great relationship. But don't knock it and say that they don't have a great relationship because of it because a lot of times they're fucking closer than the average vanilla couple that's been doing the same shit their whole life. 100% it's so true yeah so for me i started carrying that over into like all areas and i kept building off of it instead of just keeping it within the lifestyle yeah within the lifestyle like within my husband and i or within the people in that community i started to bring it out because the transparency you have in there when you start carrying that everywhere it's a game changer and it's exactly what

you're saying, if Ella couples did this, it's so rewarding and they don't realize it. The sex part of it, right? I mean, really. Yeah, no, it has nothing to do with that part of it. Like you said, it's the transparency, the being open, the being vulnerable. Because really, and I've heard this from guys, and I remember the first guy that sort of put words like this. I'm sure other guys felt this way, but this guy said it out loud, and he said, like, you know, he felt seen and heard for the first time. And I think, you know, the lifestyle, especially for men, get them talking more than they ever have it. As much, women, we talk all the fucking time. You know what I mean? We're pretty transparent from the day we're born, right, with our girlfriends and everything. But I think for men, it's a real game changer,

especially, because they tend to communicate less. They tend to pay attention to their feelings less, right? They just have that sort of disconnect that we don't unfortunately have. Sometimes I wish I was more guylike in that sense, right? They can just like fucking not feel it. But they have to in this lifestyle and things do come up. And I think that it makes them like ultimately the one guy who said he could be more vulnerable. And when he got a touch with that side of himself after going there, it made him feel closer to his wife because it made him feel like she knew more of him. You know what I mean? And he's able to express more of who he is. So I think it's very beneficial for men too for that same reason. My husband actually said to me, I think it was yesterday the day before, he said,

I feel so loved by you. And even though we've been together all of these years, like 30 something years, there have been many times that he didn't feel like that for me. He felt like the provider. And then he just took care of everything. Yeah. But he feels so loved and so seen and so heard because of how much we've grown through this lifestyle. Exactly. There you go. Yeah.

It's very, very true. Just sharing all of the things he had kept within himself. Like, can you imagine keeping all of that inside for years? Yeah, no. And that's the last thing I'll say. And you know this. Like, I mean, I feel like a lot of women don't get that sex for a man is very, different than sex for a woman in that like when the fact that you're pleasing him and doing all

these things and like allowing him to and doing stuff to live out his fantasy for himself like you know how he feels about that very different than if he was doing that for you like for a man that that is more intimate to him you know like sex is a different kind of a thing for a man than a woman women look at men like they're just fucking pigs they're so sexed up all the time but it really is how they feel love for a woman just like we feel it with compliments and being talked to you know what I mean a man feels it in that way. So you're giving your guy all this sex. Of course he's going to feel closer to you. And there's nothing wrong with that. That's the way they're wired. Right. So it's a good thing. Yeah. I love it. So listen, you know that for my Patreon. I always ask for like, you know, pictures if you want to send in anonymous

picks for my Patreon. Okay. I'll give you free access to my Patreon. You just missed my my lingerie contest on Discord. We have contests on there all the time. I'm going to do my annual Dick Pick contest. First of all, when I do a contest on my Discord, probably like 250 people said in picks, it's like crazy. We've done a dick pick contest, a pussy pick contest. We did a lingerie contest. Oh my God, I have to like rate them like 250 picks of hot women and things. But, you know, you win prizes and stuff. It's like super fun. You're going to get like a private link to my Discord when we hang up. So you'll be able to go in there. And you know, your husband could go in there. You could go in there. You could post when your episode airs or you don't have to. You don't even have to join if you don't want to. But you will get a link to that when we hang up.

and I will, when your episode airs, I will send you a link to my Patreon for free month so that you can see the comments. And if you want to send me the picks, get them to me sooner than later, so I know that I have them. Okay. And then if your husband ever wants to call in, he feels, feel free to have him call in. Oh, great. I think he'd love to. Yeah, I feel like it's always interesting to get the other side of the story and most of the time, it's like a totally different side. You know what I mean? It's a totally different episode. It's entirely different. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I love it. So, you know, so if you want to do that, just give him the link to book. Okay. I will.

What did we call you? Did you want to say anything else, Veronica? Was anything on your list that we forgot? I don't think so. I think we did it all. Okay, good. I just wanted to make sure. But anyway, thanks so much for calling you.

This was super interesting. I could have talked psychology with you for like 10 more hours. You know I love that shit. Anytime. All right. Thanks, Veronica. Thanks so much for calling in. Bye.

Thanks. Bye. Okay, I just want to tell you before you go that my book, it's called Strictly Anonymous Confession, Secret Sex Lives of Total Shoehl Strangers is now available not only in paperback and e-book, but you can pre-order the audio book. It's still not going to be out until August 25th, but you can pre-order it. The book is basically 17 different stories taken from my show.

I kind of picked one story from each category that I talk about on my show. Like there's a hot wife story. There's a cuck queen story. There's a cuck story. There's a gang-bang girl story. Like I said, 17 stories, and they're all told in the third person, and they're all true. I took the interview and rewrote it in the third person, and I wouldn't really call it like a total erotica book. Think like penthouse letters. It's more direct. It's not so over the top

like erotica. I don't really like that kind of vibe, right? But these are true stories. 17 of them. They're really short chapters, easy read. You could read, you know, one or two, and then skip around. You could read the whole book. It's available in eback format, paperback format, and finally, the audio book is available coming out August 25th, but you could pre-order it now. And if you buy my book in any format or pre-order it, I will throw in a complimentary link to my Discord. My Discord does not disappoint, okay? There's no way you get into my Discord any other way than getting the link from me. Okay, I give it to people who buy my book. There's tons of people in there. Everybody shares content with each other, and that's what you get to do there.

You can post your own pictures and videos. There's tons of channels. We have lots of contests where you can win a lot of money. It's a super fun place to be. It's a total, strictly anonymous community, and you will love it. I will be giving anyone who buys my book access to my Discord. It's private, like I said. All you got to do is email me a screenshot of your purchase, whether you did the audiobook,

the e-book, or the paperback. sent it to me at Strictly Anonymous Podcast at gmail.com. That's Strictly Anonymous Podcasts at Gmail.com. And I will send you the link to Discord. So anyway, thanks so much for tuning in. This is the Strictly Anonymous podcast. Did you come here looking to hear some super hot stories? Well, then I know where you can read a ton more hot stories.

and that is in my book. Strictly anonymous confession, secret sex lives of total strangers. It's finally out. It's available anywhere where you buy books. The book contains 17 stories I have on my show. There's a hot wife. There's a cock.

There's a bull. There's a bunch of swingers. There's a gang bang girl. There's a gilf porn star. There's a girl that fucked her best friend's mom from high school. All those stories are in the book. And they're all true. Think Penhouse Forum meets my show.

That's the vibe of the book. I am giving anyone who buys my book complimentary access to my private Discord, which is super fun. The only way you get in is through me. If you purchase the book, send me a pick of your screenshot. Email it to me at Strictly Anonymous Podcast at gmail.com and I'll send you a private link to my Discord. So if you want to buy the book, just go to the description and click on the link.

Thank you.