Strictly Anonymous Confessions - 181 - Gay Gary Sleeps with Girls

Episode Date: June 5, 2017

Gay Gary calls in to discuss how he recently started sleeping with girls. How did he suddenly find himself attracted to women? Did he actually enjoy himself? Does he consider himself bi? Is he a closeted heterosexual? Tune in to find out,plus hear all about how Gary unwillingly came out of the closet in high school, how his first relationship with a guy ended and how it majorly affected him, his experience with a BBW woman he met on Craigslist plus a whole lot more. **To see anonymous pics of my female guests + hear anonymous confessions + get all the episodes early and AD FREE, join my Patreon! It's only $7 a month and you can cancel at any time. You can sign up here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.patreon.com/StrictlyAnonymousPodcast⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and when you join, I'll throw in a complimentary link to my private Discord! MY BOOK IS NOW OUT FOR PRE-ORDER!!!! Strictly Anonymous Confessions: Secret Sex Lives of Total Strangers. A bunch of short, super sexy, TRUE stories. GET YOUR COPY NOW: https://amzn.to/4i7hBCd To Join SDC and get a FREE Trial! click here: https://www.sdc.com/?ref=37712 or go to SDC.com and use my code 37712 Want to be on the show? Email me at [e-mail] or go to http://www.strictlyanonymouspodcast.com and click on "Be on the Show" Have something quick you want to confesss while remaining anonymous? Call the CONFESSIONS hotline at 347-420-3579. You can call 24/7. All voices are changed. Sponsors: https://bluechew.com Get your first month FREE! https://butterwellness.com/ Try the Butter Wellness perineum massager and use code STRICTLY for 20% off your entire order Follow me! Instagram https://www.instagram.com/strictanonymous/ Twitter https://twitter.com/strictanonymous?lang=en Website http://www.strictlyanonymouspodcast.com/ Everything else https://linktr.ee/Strictlyanonymouspodcast Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome to the strictly anonymous podcast. Strictly anonymous podcast. Conversations with online strangers. We place ads online. The Craigslist is definitely like the gift that keeps on giving. Real people respond. You go to Sanapore or Thailand. You can't not do it.

The temptation is just too much. It's real problem. Your friend know that you're banging her or no. No, he has no idea. And anything goes. The motto of the show, let your freak flag fly. Probably the only good advice I'll ever give you is to rehire. your whips and chain. Here is your host, Kathy.

Hey, welcome to the Strictly Anonymous podcast with Kathy. If you want to follow the strictly anonymous podcast on Instagram or Twitter, follow the show at Strict Anonymous. This is a Colin of my show where I talk to. Total Strangers about their secret lives, their interesting lives, all that kind of good stuff. Today I have on a guy who, I think he said, yeah, he sent me an email. Actually, he was a new listener of the show. He came through Riot Network, the new network that I'm on.

And he was like, listen, I have this interesting thing to talk about. Or maybe he didn't even think it was interesting. People never think their stuff is interesting

and are always shocked when I'm like, oh, love this story. Come on my show. But anyway, his name is Gary. And as you can tell by the title, he's gay.

But he fucks girls. And he's into it. And that didn't, that like happened kind of, like as a surprise to him, it wasn't like, you know, he was always boss.

and he was very aware of it. And it's actually interesting how it came about. It's interesting how it ties into something else that happened to him in his life. And that's the deal. But, you know, we talk about a lot of things. Besides the fact that we talk about his life story, we talk about how he came out, which is really interesting where he came out,

which is interesting as well as, like I said, how he figured out that he was interested in, banging girls and you know what exactly went down in his first experience and then what happened afterwards so anyway i'm just going to make this intro short because i could barely talk because i'm stuffed up for some reason anyway so i'm going to be right back on with gary i was excited when i got your email you're a new listener of the show and um this was like a like a story that was like something that like or just like a topic story whatever scenario that i had never had them not only had i never had it on my show. I've never really heard of it, though, like, I'm sure, of course, it exists,

you know, but, like, basically you send me an email saying that, like, you're gay, right? And you have, like, been sleeping with women. And, like, this is a problem. And you'll explain more. But it's almost like your, like, your secret life or, like, your thing that you do on the side is like you're a heterosexual, you know? Yeah. Normally it's the opposite. Exactly. It's a bit backwards from, you know, stories you might hear. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, really quick, I just have to say this, because I once had this guy from high school who I was like in love with it and turned out like he was gay the whole time. And then we reconnected and he was like a psychopath. But then he reconnected with me on Facebook and we started to talk and he acted like he literally treated me like a like a crazy boyfriend that like was in love with me.

But I didn't like, but he was totally gay. And I said and then I had to like like literally start like stalking me and I stopped being friends of them and he went nuts. and I was like, I think he's a closet heterosexual. Like, is that possible? I really think he just, or he's like a latent homosexual, you know, because I'm like, he's acting like he fucking likes me. Like, it's not weird. He's gay, you know?

So I was like, you know, does that exist? That opens up all can of worms, which I'm sure we'll get to at some point. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, considering the situation I'm in, I guess it is a thing, even though most people probably don't even think about it. Yeah, no, that's why I was like, oh, my gosh. I have to get you to call him like ASAP so we could talk about this because it's so fascinating to me. And like it turns out.

So let's start with like your story, right? Like you always knew you were gay, right? And you came out, I think you said, when you were pretty young. But like to everybody, did you come out? Well, I didn't always know I was gay. I hear a lot of stories from people, you know, saying that they always thought they were a little bit different or something along the lines. I actually remember the exact moment when I kind of put all the pieces together. And it's kind of, you know, the story of, you know, me in middle school gym looking over at the guy sharing the locker next to me and it just clicks.

Because he was like, oh, really? So how old were you then? Like middle school? I was, I was, I believe, 12. Okay. I should, I should preface it right now that I'm actually pretty young. I'm 22. Okay.

So a lot of these events that kind of happened are all kind of smushed together on the timeline. Uh-huh. But, yeah, so that was also around. the same time when I started dating the girl that I dated for a while. It's my only, well, it's my longest relationship I've ever had. And it was the only long-term relationship I ever had with a girl. And of course, you know, at that age, it's kind of this high school romance kind of thing, right? But when you were 12? Yeah, yeah. And then you said you dated her for a couple of years. So did you guys ever have sex?

No, we didn't. Okay. Yep. So that was because I kind of realized at the same time that I met her, I never really pushed anything. I just kind of, I don't know, dealt with my feelings and tried to just keep pushing it off as long as I could. Totally.

And she probably just was like brat and all of her friends. This is how dumb girls are. Like because I've been that dumb girl. Like she was probably bragging to all her friends. Like my guy is just like so nice. He doesn't even pressure me to have sex. Right, right. Wow, he's so great.

You're so lucky. I wish I could find a guy like that because probably all their boyfriends were like forcing them to fuck them without condoms. And I think towards the end of the relationship, I think, you know, that was kind of the breaking point because she started, I think, getting a little stick of it. I wanted to like push me a bit. She was like, yeah, what the hell's going on after a while? After four years, right?

Exactly. And so, I mean, especially when you're going through that point in your life where, you know, hormones are kind of going crazy. you know, she would expect, I would think, that at that point, you know, kind of come on, right? And I think it was that little bit of pressure where I kind of just in my head said, fuck it, I can't really put up with this anymore. And that was after four years. Meaning like you couldn't put up with the pressure that you would eventually have to have sex with her and you totally like couldn't do that because you knew you were gay. Exactly.

And that was around the time where I started deciding that I was going to start coming out to people. So that was kind of the age where all of it kind of, I don't know, I knew for a while at that point, obviously, it had been four years that I've known. But that was kind of the point where I thought that, you know, I kind of have to get my shit together and kind of start doing something about it instead of just, you know, having all these feelings in my head that I don't really know what to do with them, that sort of thing. So it was kind of a, I don't know if anything caused the breakup or vice versa or anything like that, but it just kind of lined up. that in the timeline. Right, but let me ask you this because I know, you know, I know where the story's going that you eventually started sleeping with women because you want to. Like when you were fooling around with her then, right? Because I'm assuming like how like what base did you go to with her? Like I know you never fucked her. Like what did you have oral sex with her and all that

stuff? No. I don't really. I don't I'm kind of a I don't know. I'm misinformed because I don't really know what the bases are. I heard that term. Oh, maybe because you're so young. Maybe you don't have bases anymore. Like I'm like, I feel like everyone else knows it. I think it just except me. I've never. So like first base is kissing, making out.

Second base is feeling up a girl's shirt and touching her tits. Third base is fingering and I guess going down the guy's pants. And a home run is like you guys fuck. So I don't really know what oral sex is, you know, but yeah, how far did you guys go? I think lightly brushing second plate. That's it? Basically, yeah. For four years?

Exactly. It was kind of more of a glorified friendship, really. Right, right, right. Totally, of course. Yeah. So now when you went and felt her tits, right, or like, well, you just like, like, or when you would like make out with her and you guys, I'm sure you were like a dry humping on some level, right? Like, was there any kind of turn on for you with women back then even slightly? Not really, no. I can't, I can't recall that there was anything that was kind of just, I don't know. I kind of felt just obligated to. do it. Right, right, right. Because you knew you were gay and you knew like that was just totally not for you. Now, at that point, because like some guys have told me like they didn't start jerking off till they're like 18. Like were you like fully like jerking off at that point and like thinking about guys and like getting yourself off sexually like with men behind your back? Okay. At that point. I was definitely, I was definitely very into it at that point. Right, right. Like after that time that you specifically remember. Now when you were looking at that guy, was he like naked? changing in the locker room and that's when you got it or was it not even had to be that that you figured it out like I think it was I think he was just without his shirt right you know at that point I all my friends were talking about you know how they had all these feelings for girls and all that and I was kind of like yeah yeah you know I whatever but it was kind of when I had that moment

right then that I was like oh that's what they're talking about that sort of thing right like I could totally relate at that point and that's kind of what the pieces started coming together. Right. And then you knew. But like when you, was there that thing though that everybody says that like you knew something was kind off or not at all?

Not really. You know, it's interesting you bring that up because I actually was, I grew up in, it was a Mormon town. Oh, really? It was a, I wasn't Mormon myself.

My parents just raised me there because of their job and real estate and all that just. Uh-huh. But I mean, I was surrounded by Mormon people. And it was a very conservative town. And it, you know, when people talk about gay people, then, you know, they would, they would drop the fag bomb, all that stuff. Right.

They would drop all that. So to me, if you were gay, it was kind of, I mean, prior to me actually realizing it, being gay was you had to be very odd. You know, it was kind of an us versus them sort of thing. Right. In my head. And I didn't really actively think about gay people all that much. I just kind of had that mindset about it. Right.

Uh-huh. So, you know, even up to that point, I didn't really have a thought that something was a little weird because, I mean, it would be, I would be totally odd if I, you know, was identifying myself as gay, that sort of thing. Right. That makes sense. Yeah, no, no, totally. So you break up with this girl. Do you break up with her, I'm assuming? I do.

Okay. You broke up with her. And now, like, in the whole time that you were with her for those four years, did you have any, like, did you cheat on her, like, with a guy? making out with a guy or have any kind of sexual relationship with a guy or anything like that? Or were you kind of quote unquote faithful to her? I was faithful to her entire time. Yeah. Okay.

Because probably at that point nobody even knew that you were gay. Like had you kept it a secret to, you know. Yep. Okay. Exactly. When you break up with her, though, you start to think you're going to come out to people. Like, who do you start coming out to first? So I had a close friend at the time.

Actually, for the last two years of our relationship, I want to. went to a different school than this girl. We went to middle school together, and then through high school, we went to different schools. But at this new school that I was at, I was a really good friend with this girl and her, I guess, sister, is the correct term, was transgender. And so she was very, you know, open-minded and that sort of stuff. So I kind of just told her and that it felt so good to do it, obviously, you know, after that point, after kind of everything I'd gone through, I felt good saying it. And, you know, of course, she was very accepting of it.

And my school, the high school I went to was very small. It was about 35 kids. My graduating class was. So it kind of, I started telling select people. But by telling select people, it went around very fast. And before I knew it, it was the entire school knew. And was it okay? Like were people pretty accepting of it?

Absolutely. not. Who was the select people that you told that went and told everybody else? I don't know because I, you know, the people I told, I guess the first round of people that found out. They were all very close to me. Right. And I still consider them very good friends, but obviously, you know, one of them kind of let it slip, that sort of thing. Were they guys or girls that you told? They were mostly girls. Actually, they were all girls. Yeah, girls talk. I hate to say that. I mean, we're just like, you know, I'm finding that out now. Yeah. Gossip. was a, you know, a big thing with girls.

Right. You know, they think, like, they just, and they don't even do it in a bad way, but they do it. You know, they just go and tell somebody else, like, and they say, well, don't tell anyone, I'm telling you that, you know, but it was, I absolutely imagine it wasn't malicious at all. Yeah, no doubt that it wasn't. Right. But it just, it happened anyway. And until my senior year of high school, I was kind of the outcast at that point.

Did those girls that you were friends with that you told and like, did they at least stay your friend? I'm assuming because you said they're still your friend to this day. Absolutely. Okay, cool. So, but everybody else was like freaked out and like because they were more or most of the Mormon? Right. Yeah. That ended up being the case.

And actually, that's how my parents actually ended up finding out because these kids told their parents. And then these concerned parents now reached out to my parents. Oh, my God. And it was absolutely a mess. How did your parents react? So both my parents, I would say, you know, relative to some of the horror stories I've heard, they're pretty good about it. My mom was definitely a lot more open to it. My dad was a bit awkward, still is to this day.

But I really, I couldn't ask for anything more because, you know, I'm still in contact with them every week, even though we live far away from each other. It turned out okay. Right. That's cool. But, I mean, that's like a real shitty way for them to find out. I mean, like, you didn't, like, get to go and tell them. Like, what did they come into your room one day? And, like, or you came home from school and they were, like, looking at you funny.

Like, I mean, how did you find out that they knew? That's exactly it. I was actually just in my room one day. My mom walked in and she, like, obviously was crying. I remember it like it was yesterday. and she, you know, she never, she never cries. And so I knew something, you know, I thought, oh, my God, did someone die like that, you know, we're really close to or something? But she just, I guess she was just so emotional about it more because she was concerned for me.

She knew the situation I was in, you know, at school. And in your whole town, she knew what kind of crazy people lived there. She knew. She kind of was like, you're probably, she was telling me. she's like, you're probably, you know, kind of consider the outcast, aren't you? She figured it out. Right. And I think that's really hard for parents, even more so to just feel that your kid is going to be bullied and treated poorly, you know, and it's just like, no parent wants that for their child.

Exactly. And I knew it, it kind of hurt her, not because I was gay, but because, you know, there's a lot, there's kind of a lot of new risks associated with. You have, I mean, the one thing that people are, my mom was also concerned with is, you know, the whole HIV. the AIDS thing because when she was growing up, that was a big thing and she actually lost a friend to AIDS. Right. So she had a personal sort of thing that happened her, right. So she had a bunch of things going on in her mind.

And she told my dad, I didn't tell him. I didn't think I could do it because this all happened so fast for me without, you know, without me wanting to do it either. You had no control of it. Yeah. I didn't initiate it. So she told him and he was, again, he was a bit weird about it. But he, he was fine.

Okay, so your dad was like, he was just a kind of awkward and still is to this day. But like, you know, what grade were you in at that point? Like, how many more years did you have to be in that school with those people that, like, couldn't, you know, were horrified by you? So that was, when that all happened, that was 16. So that must have been 10th grade, I believe. And so, you know, I had about two more years left. And so did you have any guy friends at that time? Were there anybody else?

I mean, I'm assuming I'm thinking probably there were no, there was no gay people or openly gay people in your school at that point. Were there? Like, did you get any support? The weird thing was that the valedictorian, actually, of my high school class was gay. But it was weird with him. no one really seemed to care about him. That is weird. How come?

I think a lot of it was because he kind of had the charming personality. He was on a TV show. Oh, really? And I was just kind of the weird, awkward nerd. And maybe it was easier to pick on me than him. Let me ask you this. Did he come to you and say, like, listen, like, you know, like, did he bond with you at all, considering you were the only other gay person?

No. No. We were about, in that. class or in, yeah, in that high school, we were about as far apart from each other as we could be. And I wanted it to be that way. Because he was like a popular person and you were. I had a feeling he could not relate to me at all. He kind of, he was the teacher's pet.

He, you know, he came from a very rich family. He kind of seemed to have everything and I don't know. And everyone seemed to love him. So I didn't, I didn't feel like I could relate to him at all. And of course, all my friends were like, oh, my God, you should, you know, you know, you should be like, partners with each other, you know, all that jazz, but I wasn't having it. I really did not want to talk to them all. Yeah, you know, high school is just like a fucked up like reality. You know what I mean? It really is. It's so bizarre and it's so sad when you hear about people who in high

school like have situations like you had and then they wind up killing themselves. It's like I wish somebody would tell people that high school means nothing. Like your whole in your whole life that your life starts when you leave high school. You know what I mean? It's like it has nothing to do with anything in your life moving forward. You don't remember half of it. You know what I mean? And in high school, things and the way people are popular or not popular and judge,

it's all backwards. None of it is like reality of what it's going to be like, you know, out in the real world, you know. I live in New York City and I think it's filled with people that felt odd in their high, you know, and like those kind of people could want. up coming in New York and be like normal people that are accepted for all the things that people in high school hate. And it's just so sad that, you know, like, like I said, that people like fucking off themselves because in high school, maybe they were unique and different

and would have been amazing in real life. But in high school, people look down on things like that. And it's just a really sick twisted place. I don't know. High school, high school was kind of what started my whole depression thing that I continue to have to this day. It really fucked me up. Of course. Of course. I mean, to be like an outcast for being just you. I mean, that's just who you were.

You know what I mean? Like there's nothing wrong with being gay. It's just a part. It's like saying, you know, everyone hating you because you have brown hair, you know, it's just so sick. And then to, you know, to have everybody turn on you the whole school and to know your business and have it done without you even having to do it. Oh, yeah.

How could that not be depressed? Exactly. Yeah. And the only thing. that really kept me through because I did counseling. I did that during high school after I came out. My parents found out. They set me up with it.

It didn't really help me. And really the only thing that I would say kind of helped me through that is that I knew when I graduated, it would, I would be able to leave and start my whole new life. Yeah, that's what I mean. You just have to wait it out. You just have to wait it out and get the fuck out of that school and out of that town and get as far away as possible. And it'll be a totally different world.

And high school graduation, I would say, was probably one of the best days in my life. Because I knew at that point, I was done. Yeah. And you know, it's like that little town that you're in and all that. It was like, none of it means anything. And it's, but, you know, unfortunately, like you said, like, you know, that, like, you're not really even that far out of high school too anyway. And your life, you're only 22. Like, in 10 years, you'll be even farther from it.

Like, you will eventually get away from that bullshit, you know, that's stuck to you. there that made you so depressed, all that sort of judgment and, you know, against you for nothing, we'll go away because, you know, it's ridiculous. And you live in a much better time now that it's like more accepted, I think, being gay than ever. But yet you were in, you unfortunately were in like that Mormon place. So it was like, I got the shit end of the deal. Yeah, you might as well I'd been gay in like 1982. You know what I mean? Exactly.

You're lucky you had that friend that had a transgender. Did she live in your town in the Mormon town too? She did, yes. Wow. So, I mean, at the school of our size, we would have run into each other at some point,

but I'm just happy there was a person there, period. Yeah, exactly. I could kind of have that connection with in the first place. Right, because that fucking valeditorian wasn't any help. Yeah. You know? Right. Yeah.

So anyway, so, Now, where do you get your first boyfriend? So that happened to my freshman year of college. Well, in my email, I mentioned something that happened before that. And it was one of those situations, because this is after I broke up with my girlfriend. Yeah. So going back to when I was 16, it was kind of one of those things where I think we had different terms of what our relationship were. I thought it was something a lot more serious than heat, but obviously.

And this is kind of where the whole fiasco started because this is the first time I actually felt, you know, quote unquote love with someone. Yeah. I had this really, really deep connection with him. And, you know, I was actually gone for a summer. It was about two months, I think. And when I came back, you know, him thinking that we were just kind of fuck buddies at that point. He's like, oh, when you were gone, I slept with a girl. and this is kind of where everything starts.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So he never identified as buy or anything. I actually still talked to him. I actually just had beer with him the other day. It's funny. Stayed in touch. No, he identifies as gay, always has. But he just kind of had this, well, what happened is that someone he was close friends with, I guess.

That was kind of what the extent he told me was. Just kind of asked him if he'd be open to trying it. And he kind of declined a few times and they gave in and then he tried it. And of course, to me at this point, I was absolutely traumatized. He kept going on about this story and telling me every single detail. And I'm just, you know, in a fetal position in the corner. And he had sex with her. He did, yeah.

And he was giving you all the details. He was giving me all the details. Why do people do shit like that? I just don't know. But, you know, obviously he didn't really see me as a relationship. you know, he didn't see our relationship as something serious. So he just thought it was kind of tell your best friend, you know, how, how you enjoyed the last movie you saw.

It was just very casual, it was very, you know, blah, blah, blah. How long were you dating him at the time? It wasn't long. It was like two months at that point. Okay. But, you know, it's young love. Right, right, right. And you thought it was the first time that you were like really felt like something

was serious with somebody. Exactly. Yep. So he kind of went to this detail when he described it. And I remember he just said, eh, it was okay. I think that was just enough approval that it just really fucked me up. I was like, how dare he, you know, not only cheat, you know, quote, cheat on me. Yeah.

But he cheated on me with a girl. And I'm like, oh, my God, am I that bad? You know, I turned into the teenage girl at that point. And I was like, oh, my God, what does this mean? You know, blah, blah. But it really fucked me up. I didn't know what to think. I was really, really depressed after that.

And it wasn't just because he slept with someone else. It was the fact that it was a girl. That was the part that really threw me. Yeah, I was going to say, like, I mean, cheating is bad enough, but like, is it worse that it's another girl? So really, like, if he would have told you, oh, I fucked another guy, would that have bothered you? Was he your first guy that you lost your virginity to, by the way? He was, yes. Okay.

I think if he did that, I still would have been upset, but I wouldn't have been, like, inoperable like I was. I couldn't do anything. I felt like. And why do you think? Right, right. And why? Because like the girl thing was it because it was also like he had lied to you about being

gay and like he obviously maybe was by or like what do you think it was about the fact that it was a girl that was like 10 times worse than if it was just cheating with a guy? You know, I really don't know. It could have been the kind of maybe betrayal I felt. at that time I was very kind of into the whole gay politics thing and so maybe I

kind of was thinking at that point that I don't know it was like kind of bad for the movement and my view on politics has shifted along and get into that later but it it I don't know I really don't know it seems so... It felt like who is this person

because like I mean it's like it's like a when someone it's like a it's a shock enough that someone cheated on you, but like when it's something that like you would never even believe, it's like it really, it's like the rug is pulled from underneath you. It's like it's a, it's not just upsetting. It's like a real bad shock, I think, probably. I think it's, I think it's, I think it could be compared to like if, you know, a wife found out that her husband was sleeping with a man for the past year. You know, she probably doesn't really know like who he is anymore. Yeah, that's what I mean. Like, it's like it's like, it's like, you're like, who the fuck are you?

Like, like, it's not just, oh, they cheated. It's like you didn't even, you know, know who you were with. It's like a whole other level kind of a thing. Exactly. And, you know, it just, it really fucked me up for a long time until, I guess, somewhat recently. But it was a grudge that I felt for a long time and I, you know, immediately stopped talking to him and that was basically the end of that. Well, was he kind of like, why the hell are you so upset? Yeah, he was. I just remember, I don't remember the exact things he said, but I just remember he came off as a very, well, if you don't want to talk to me to me anymore, so be it. He kind of had a very free attitude, right?

Well, listen, he told you in the same kind of, with the same kind of flippant attitude, right? Like the fact that he told you meant that he didn't think it was that big of a deal or would hurt you. It wasn't like a big deal to him. Right. It was very flippant. It was kind of, you know, he probably didn't see me as anything more than a fuck buddy anyway. So. Yeah, that's probably really hard to handle it.

two, though, don't you think? It was probably a combination of things at that point. So you're super depressed. He dumps you. I mean, you're not having a good life at this point. You finally graduate high school, right? Because you had graduated already at this point? No, this is all, I was 16.

Oh, right, so you're right, 16. So you're still in high school. So he, so then what happens? Nothing really happened, actually. I didn't date anyone. My town was too tiny. He was probably the only shot I ever had. Uh-huh.

But I didn't do anything. I didn't sleep with anyone else. And it was just kind of boring, nerdy me focusing on my studies. And that was the end of that until I graduated and went to college. Uh-huh. So, yeah, then I went to college. I moved away, obviously. And it wasn't long after I started until I kind of had my first serious relationship with someone who kind of felt the same way back.

Right. Um, so I'm trying to think he, I, I think all the relationships I've started have been through online dating. Uh-huh. Um, it seems kind of the only way. And I think that's just the way. Yeah, but I think that's just the way that it happens nowadays anyway. It's so easy. In the gay world.

Totally. It's kind of, it kind of has to be that way. I mean, especially for me at this point when, you know, I'm not, I can't go to bars or anything like that. Um, how come? So, well, because I'm underage. I was 18. Oh, at that time, right, I'm thinking you're 22.

Yeah. Right. Okay. So I was 18 when I first started dating him. And it wasn't very, again, it wasn't very long. This was actually the longest one I've had. And it was about five months, I think. So, again, it wasn't very long.

And I actually broke off this one. This one, it was kind of vanilla. It was very boring. But we just, he wasn't in college. I was. He was two years older than me. It was kind of, it was. boring, but he ended up being a complete psychopath, and that's what really

drove me away. Right. I remember the night I broke up with him, he tried to kill himself. Oh, God. Did he, I mean, like, did he tell you about, like, was it like a cry for help or a way to try to get you back, or did he really? His parents told me, or his mom told me. Okay. So he was a little mentally unstable. He was a little, yeah. And, you know, ironically enough, not two months after I broke up with him, he found someone else. So I don't know. Um, but I don't really know. I think that I don't really know if anything significant came out of that relationship. I was still kind of fucked up about the whole my first guy sleeping with the girl, that sort of thing.

I was still a little fucked up from that in terms of like my opinion of gay guys sleeping with women. I was absolutely disgusted by it. Right. That sort of thing. And I don't think, I think that was the last relationship I had for another two years after that. it really started getting interesting two years after that so I was 20 and this is when the whole curiosity kind of started coming up um my first guy actually reached out to me through Facebook and he he kind of wanted to just let me know or ask me how I was doing um I wasn't you know I wasn't

very pleased to hear with them hear from me which guy would you say the first guy the guy the guy from high school to fuck the girl? Yes, that guy. Okay, cool. So he, I guess he, I don't know why he did it, but he reached out to me and we just started talking. I didn't bring up the issue. I was kind of still, you know, very sensitive about it. Even at this point, four years later,

but I should have been over it at that point anyway, but I wasn't. And we started talking and it was just kind of generic chit-chat. It wasn't anything sexual. It was just about our daily lives, I guess. But after maybe a month or so of talking, that thoughts of him, fucking your girl,

kind of, I don't know, it seemed less weird, maybe because I thought about it way too much at that point. It was almost like normal. Uh-huh. It kind of, it wasn't as much of, like,

anything disgusting anymore. I wouldn't say it was very much of a turn-on, but I didn't really seem to care about it at that point. Okay. Finally, right? That must have felt good. Yeah, no. It had been enough time, really. Right.

But I guess kind of my, I don't know how it happened or when it happened, but my neutral thoughts about it kind of turned into something a little bit more sexual. Because I don't know, I think I did a bit of research about it. I wonder if anyone else kind of had a similar story. Yeah. They'd been gay and then they started sleeping with women. And I think I mentioned my email. I just saw a few, like, stupid vice articles. And most of it to this day, I think, is very fantasy-ish, mostly written by women that kind of want to sleep with gay men and, like, convert them, that whole thing.

Right. So it ended up being just a lot of fantasy stuff and nothing really substantial. And that's kind of how it is still to this day. And it's kind of why I wanted to vent a bit because I don't think there's anyone out there like me sometimes. It's just, it's so, it's such a weird situation to be in. but when you go Googling because I'm assuming maybe you have like have you ever have besides these vice articles right have are there any forums or anything out there for people like in your I should introduce you to my friend my crazy friend from high school yeah yeah he's mentally

unstable too he'll date you yeah he'll date you and then fuck a girl be on your back or try to kill himself he's messed up too a combo of all of them why not yeah totally but I I know well there's a couple things I found there was there are a couple forums out there where you know someone asks has any gay guys like for the women blah blah blah and the people that respond usually say yeah before I came out

blah blah blah blah yeah that doesn't count that's why I wanted to know if you fucked your girlfriend because I thought it wouldn't be as interesting if you had never fucked you know what you know what you know what I mean right and more interestingly though that kind of it was probably what made it more sexual to me is that there are I don't know if you realize it's about

gay porn but there are a lot of people in gay porn that are actually straight, but they get paid a lot of money to do it. Right. You know, gay for pay. That's what they call it. Yeah, yeah. But there's actually, I don't know if it's, there's actually a backwards to it that

is only, it's rarely, rarely ever done, but it's kind of straight for pay, I guess. But there are gay porn actors who fuck women in these straight porn scenes. Now, whether they're actually straight or, sorry, whether they're actually gay or not. Right. That's a whole other thing. Or buy or however they might sort of label themselves, right? Yeah, yeah. But, you know, there are those things out there.

And I think that's when I kind of started getting, it started making kind of that, had that sexual connection in my head. Well, because you found, like, did you come across like some sort of porn where there was a gay guy fucking a girl and you got a little turned on? Is that how it started? There was, there was a gay porn star. And he was gay, I believe. I mean, he's done, you know, a million gay porn.

scenes and only one straight scene ever. So I kind of assume he's gay, but I, you know, I found his gay porn at first and I thought it was, you know, really hot. I thought he was really attractive, that sort of thing. And then he did the straight scene and then I thought that was even hotter for some reason. I don't know if it was like the fantasy of it being a, I don't know what it was really. It doesn't make sense, you know, however I try to rationalize it in my head. Yeah. It doesn't really makes sense, but that's when I kind of started, you know, making, having these thoughts about, well, maybe, you know, I should do this now and all that. Let me ask you this.

And this is like jumping ahead. And I don't almost, I don't know if I should, but like, have you fucked a girl? Like, have you, I feel like I've said fuck a lot in this conversation. Have you had sex with a woman? Yep, too. Okay. All right. So eventually we do get to that place.

We do get to that point. Okay. So you're jerking off. Like, you're seeing this. now and like it does that become confusing for you as a gay man or my god it's it's still confusing to this day i was i didn't know what to think of it at this point i thought maybe it was just me just looking at the guy and yeah yeah you know completely blocking out the girl and maybe that's what i thought it was hot but right and then when did you realize like oh i kind of like the tits and

the at like when did that start to sort of occurred to you it was it wasn't long after maybe a month or so when I kind of made the connection where, you know, I was watching the porn, you know, on full screen and I had my eyes just fully locked on her. And I'm like, ah, fuck, okay, what, you know, what situation am I in now?

Especially, it's one of those things. I'm sure you've heard of it. Like, after guys come, you know, they kind of have this, oh my God, what am I doing? Oh, yeah, totally. I always say it's like you're drunk and then you're like sober. You can only imagine what it was at that point, you know, when I'm, you know, completely done and everything.

I'm looking at the screen. I'm like, oh my God, you know, what the hell is happening? Yeah, that would freak you out, right? I don't know if freaking out is the right term, but it was, it was, it was very odd. I didn't know what to think of it. I didn't really have any words for it. Okay. It was weird, but I knew, I knew that had something sexually arousing for me.

That's all I really knew. Right. And then I'm assuming you just kept jerking off to it, maybe more and more. Like, when did it? Right. Now, did you talk to any of your gay friends about it? Well, later on, actually, not too long ago, really the only person I've ever talked about it to face-to-face is one of my friends. And she said to me, I don't really have too many friends that are gay that I know of.

I mean, they could be for all I know. But I talked to her about it because she started bringing up the idea. She started it. She was talking about how she was always interested in, you know, being. with a woman and we never we never talk sexual to each other so i thought it was a little weird she was bringing it up but i'm like you know the hell with it i'll talk about my thing too while we're at it yeah and so i brought it up with her and her only the only thing she said to me was no don't do it stick to guys and so i'm like oh god is like is she like only friends with me because i'm gay

and she wants to take me shopping yeah so i i didn't i wasn't very satisfied about her response Yeah, no, she didn't even, she wasn't even. She totally, she was like, don't do it. Yeah, that's so weird because she should have been like, oh my God, let's do it together. Like, I mean, that should have been, she's the wanting to be with a girl too. She should have been, I totally understand. Oh, yeah, no, but she's like, no, God, oh, God, no. So I wasn't very happy about that.

Right. But, and I think that's kind of what fueled my, I don't know, discontent with it all. because now, you know, I guess we're kind of skipping forward a bit, but I guess it ties into it. The main issue I have with this whole situation is that everyone's very dismissive about it. It seems like no one wants to talk about it. It's only hot if a straight guy goes gay. The other way around, it's absolutely awful. That seems to be the general consensus.

I remember. Well, look, you even, think about it, you even when it happened to, well, I mean, it was your boyfriend, right? but like you like it I don't know if you had this like sort of because you said you were like into the politics of everything and like but you were very anti gay men being with women for a very long time too right and do you think that that 100% stemmed from what happened to you or it was just like magnified because of what happened to you I don't I think if it didn't happen to me I would have been a little bit you know I can't say for sure but I think I would have been a little bit more whatever about it

because I don't think it happens too often. Uh-huh, right. I wonder. I want people to email me. Oh, yeah. Forward it to me because I'm curious. Listen, I mean, there are a lot of people that sort of are by and like, you know, claim to be by and know that they're by and that would be, you know, and I think that

there's different variations of that. You know what I mean? Like, I had a guy on recently who was totally straight, but his wife was like fucking him in the ass a lot. And then he's like, we all have a transgender with a dick. I'm like, do you think maybe like your by? You know, I think towards the end, I kind of talked him into sort of thinking like, yeah, he probably is, but maybe just like 90, 10, you know, as far as percentages.

The thing is, though, about that is I'm convinced from my experience that 90, probably 95% of bi men are, they have relationships with women and then occasional sex with men, not the other way around. I can never see myself being in a relationship with a woman. Right. Yeah, no, no. Listen, I think when you say. Listen, I think the difference between identifying as bisexual or gay, the difference is like when you're saying bisexual, like say a heterosexual, like say a guy is saying I'm bi, right? He's saying like, I'm straight and I have really, right, you're like, I have a relationship as a woman,

but I just have sex with guys. And then gay guys say I'm gay. Yeah, that is kind of interesting. Like what would a gay guy be considered that? Like he'd be by too. But yet you like you say. Mostly if you hear a guy says he's by, it's he's, you know, having relationships with women. Exactly.

That's the only, I mean, I have to give some leeway for the people I've never met, but those are the only people I've ever met. It's only that situation I've ever, ever come across. Right, but there's got to be some guys out there that are like, oh, no, but I mean, that would be like, I'm by and I'm also like I date women. I date men, right? Like, I don't know. I haven't. There has to be. There has to be.

But I think it's in the minority. Right. It's a little bit more rare. The vast minority. Yeah. Right. Now, do you start, let's get back to your story though. So like, how do you meet the first girl?

Like, when does it become a thing that you're like, I want to actually go and experience this in real life? So I kind of embarrassed when I think about it going back. But the way I met the first girls. Actually, one of my hookups prior to this, it was actually a married man who identified as by, you know, was married. He usually only had sex with women, but I guess he had me on the side. Yeah. I've had those on my show many times. Yeah.

Whether that serves as a, you know, a moral dilemma for me, I don't know. I didn't really care and I still really don't. Oh, you mean that he was married and you were like the person. Yeah. Okay, yeah. We don't need to get into that. It does, yeah, but whatever. But, you know, I kind of brought this.

Well, actually, I did bring it up to him that I was interested. So I guess I was wrong when I said I'd only talk about it face to face. But I brought it up with him. And he said he'd be interested in doing two guys and a girl. And he said that maybe that would be a bit of an easier transition if I wanted to explore that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, why not? Yeah. He would kind of hold your hand and your dick at the same time.

Right. Through the process. So, I mean, he's like. go ahead, go on Craigslist, and post an ad. And so I did. And I put both our pictures up on it. And after, you know, how old was this guy?

Oh, my God, he was a lot older. Like 40s, 50s? I think like late 30s. Okay, good looking guy? What do you consider it? Because I know you do the one to 10. Yeah. What do you consider the average to be?

Where do you set the average? What do you mean? Like an average, like a good looking average or like a regular person that's not good looking average? I don't know. Like to me, like a good looking person. Average is normally most people say like they're like sixes. Okay. I'll put him at like a six and a half seven maybe.

Okay. So he's kind of good looking. He's pretty good. I think. Yeah, maybe seven to average. Right. So I put the ad out, put both of our pictures. and after 200 spam bots later.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I got a response from a real girl. A real girl. I want her on my show. Go on. Oh, God, I've cut off contact. Yeah, no, no, I'm just doing it. Go on.

Yeah. So she responded saying she was interested. It was kind of her fantasy. So I'm like, perfect. This works out great for everyone. I gave her my phone number. I told the guy, he was like, great, you know, talk to her a bit, see if, you know, kind of vet her, I guess,

is the right way to say it. But yeah, so we started talking. She gave me pictures. What about her on scale of 1 to 10? Oh, God. Was she like a 4? Yeah, that's probably nice. Oh, you're kidding.

Why? Like, what was so bad about her? Like everything, face, body, everything was anything okay? She had a nice face. Okay. Oh, it was the body. Was she like too very big maybe? And you don't like that?

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, she was probably, you know, five, four, and over 280. So she was a BBW. That's what they call them. Yeah. I'm still learning, I guess. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But anyway, so I'm like, you know, the hell of it anyway.

I like this guy that, you know, I'm doing this with. So, I mean, if I have any issues, getting aroused by, at least he's there. And so did he go for it too? Did he say, okay, that's okay? At this point, I hadn't sent them the pictures of her yet. This was kind of still in the preliminary stages of it all. But one night, you know, we weren't yet. We hadn't been talking that long.

One night she said, I, what she say? She said, I'd rather do it with one of you first. So I don't get intimidated. I think that's like something along the line she said. Oh, okay. Yeah. So. Oh, now I see where this is going.

Yeah. Yeah. So at this point, I'm like, fuck, what do I do? And she lives, you know, like an hour from me. So she was basically giving me the whole like, hey, I'm alone, come over sort of thing. And I did. I was like, you know, I'm probably, I don't know if I'm ever going to get this opportunity again.

If I don't get hard, then, oh, well, I guess, you know, it's not the end of the world. I don't really know her. She doesn't know any of my friends. It won't be the end of it. It'll probably be embarrassing. Yeah, but so I kind of just said to hell with it. Yeah. I did it.

I went over there and yeah, you know, it wasn't, I don't think she was the most aesthetically pleasing. Was she prettier in person? Was she better in person or just as the same in person? She took very strategic pictures. Oh, she was worse in person. I know. Gosh, she would murder me if she knew who I was. Right.

But, you know, she had this, you know, fetish for. two guys and a girl and we you know she was she was very nice personality-wise she was a very nice and she had a pretty face yes so we sat on the couch we like talked just about you know shit whatever for about an hour and then she kind of you know pushed it because i was too much of a pussy to do so and she put up porn you know three-sum porn two guys on a girl that sort of thing and i think that got me just hard enough to start the whole process yeah she she she she gave me a blow job. It was okay. I still think guys do it better. That's another topic. Because I know you had some person that called it and they completely disagreed, but whatever. She, we, she did that. I was like, you know, half hard at this point. But we went back to the bedroom. And as soon as, you know, I started fucking her, it was awesome. It felt amazing. You mean, like, it should be inside a vagina. It was more like that, like that. Yeah. Yeah. Right.

And I didn't even really care at that point. You know, I didn't, I wasn't closing my eyes and thinking about anyone else or anything. And I, I came twice. Wow. So I, you know, it wasn't just kind of a. Maybe you also like our, you know, or a chubby chaser. I don't know. There's nothing wrong with that.

Okay. So I know there's not. So you fucked her and came twice. Yeah. Yeah. That's great. And you had a good time. And from what I can tell, I don't know if she was faking it or not, but, you know,

she came to like halfway through my first time. And it was, it was really good. I really enjoyed it. And, you know, I did have that moment after the second time I came, because after the first time I came, I was like, no, hell, I'm going to go again. Why not? Yeah. And after the second time, that's when I started thinking, oh, God, you know, am I actually gay? Am I by?

Do I really want to do this anymore? all the doubts start setting in. Yeah. But in general, I left and I didn't really have too many regrets or anything. It was just kind of, it was just another experience, I guess. And that was that. Yeah. And so did you tell anybody?

Did you tell anybody about it? What about the guy who was supposed to be there with you? I never told the guy. And I just kind of, I guess I gave him the impression that she just kind of flaked out on us. Right. And he probably believed it. Now, did you see her ever? ever again? No. No, I haven't even talked to her ever again after that. Really? How come? Nope. Was it

because you guys just lost touch? Did she never try to contact you? She's never tried to contact me. So I can, I can take a hint and, you know, whatever. Okay. Well, maybe she was waiting for you to contact. Did you contact her and she just never responded? I didn't either, no. Oh, okay. She probably wanted you and would say the same thing. I mean, did you think she was like rejecting you? that you didn't hear from her? She seemed she seemed to pretty, you know, she didn't want to kick me out after we were done. She didn't seem to mind, you know, me being there. Yeah.

So I don't think she completely wanted to never see. You know, she could have maybe been waiting for me to. No, I'm saying, because you said no, she never wanted to, like, I'm saying, did you feel like when you didn't hear from her afterwards, you know, like a couple days goes by a week and, you know, like, did you think, oh, she probably wasn't into me? I don't think I ever had the thought that she wasn't into me. given the experience.

I just, I don't know if it was like I had a lot going on. I just kind of, you know, didn't really care anymore. Yeah, it wasn't like a weird thing. Okay,

so you guys never talked again. And so then how do you wind up with the second girl? You said you did it twice. So the second one was Tinder. Uh-huh. Which is kind of the go-to, I guess, nowadays.

Um, it was, it was very, I was 21 at this point. So it was, um, actually I, yeah,

I just turned 21 at this point. So I was able, you know, go out drinking. Yeah. You know, we'd matched. We'd go out to drink. And it was kind of a hookup thing from the first, from kind of the get-go. We knew it was going to be a hook-up sort of situation. And how hot was she?

Please tell me she was like, you know, more than a four. Oh, she was my age. Okay. Was she good-looking? Yeah, she was. Okay. You know, the sorority girl, you know, with all that jazz, wearing the shirt, callie girl, that sort of thing.

Right, right, right. Did she know you were gay? Nope. Okay. So the first woman, I think she thought I was by probably. Okay. But this girl just completely assumed I was straight, I think. Okay, cool.

And so that one was, I don't know, it was kind of uneventful, I guess, because I'm trying to rack my brain for, like, details about it. But it was just kind of really. It was just a hookup. It was just a hookup. Yeah. It was very quick. It was just, you know, she went back to her place. we went back to her place and it's very quick.

Right. As much as I don't like saying that. Isn't it so interesting that like you almost kind of enjoyed yourself more with the big girl? Yeah. Yeah. I remember more details about it at least. Yeah, it was great. You fucked her twice.

You came twice and you was like this one. But it was okay. Like you got off like you came. It was the same thing. Okay. It took a little bit of time at the beginning like the first one did. but I don't know if it was because I was like mentally like weirded, not weirded out, but like, I don't know. It seemed a little foreign to me, I guess.

Maybe that kind of psyched me out a bit because it definitely wasn't anything unattractive about it. Because I thought the whole like scenario was hot. Yeah. So I should have been able to like, you know, get hard and going right there. But I think my mind was kind of holding me back. But overall, both situations, I've definitely, I definitely got off on it. Right, right. And then you, did you ever see her again or did the same thing, just like a one-night thing?

We talked a bit afterwards, but we never hung out again. And so, but where are you at now? Like, this is confusing to you, right? Like, I mean, I've come to terms with it, I guess. I don't really know what to think of it. I don't know if it's like a phase. I don't think it is a phase, but it's just kind of how it is for me now. Okay, but like when you meet guy, like, where does it stand as far as like,

like, or where do you stand like with your dating life, like right now? Like, are you dating somebody? Well, okay. So the first, the first woman, which this is kind of, I guess, weird to admit. But this was after a guy I started dating. He was the second person I ever seriously dated after the guy that tried to kill himself. Yeah. He, I mentioned it to him.

You know, I was like, you know, I'm like, what do you think about this? and he, I don't think, I think that's kind of what started to break us up, because I think he thought it was a little weird, you know, is he really gay? That sort of thing that maybe I had when I was with the guy when I was 16, you know. Yeah, I think that would freak somebody out. I think it's the same thing with women with men. Say that again? I think it's the same thing with women with men.

You know what I mean? If somebody says, you know, you just always get to be nervous. Like, you got to be nervous enough that they're going to leave you for, you know, somebody regular. But then if you add the rest of the population, now it's like 100%. of people they could fuck, you know what I mean? Right. And so, I mean, I never, because at that point, I hadn't done it with anyone, or with any chick at least at that point. Yeah. So it was just kind of a fleeting thought. And I don't, I never said that I had done anything. And so I was faithful to him, but I think that thought that I had that I, you know, told him about, weirded him out enough

to end that relationship. That is in your head, right. Yeah. I dated a guy immediately after that. Immediately after what, that guy or this girl? Not immediately, sorry. It started maybe, this was around when I started, when I fucked the Tinder girl. Okay, so we're back to the present day. So after you fuck the Tinder girl, you start dating a guy. Well, this is actually right around, it's kind of, I don't know which one happened first. Yeah, but at the same time, yeah, go on.

I kept it, I kept it, I should say, I didn't tell this other guy. for a very good reason because I mean he was basically everything I was looking for and a guy I didn't want to sacrifice that and so I mean

I did it I must have been with him before I fucked this girl because I think I had an active thought that I was cheating on him and that weirded me out but I didn't tell him and I kind of kept it behind his back

and I mean last week we actually broke up so it doesn't really matter in the end but wait so you did you cheated on him with a girl Yeah, this was, I must have started dating him. Interesting. Do you still have a therapist? It is kind of, you still have a therapist.

It's kind of interesting that like you had this thing happened to you that was so devastating, right? I'm kind of making the connection now as I talk about it. Yeah, you go and relive out the whole scenario as that guy. Yeah, I guess so. I'm just kind of putting that together. now. You never put that together before? No, I haven't. Oh, that's so interesting. I mean, it's so obvious. It's, you know, but yeah, that it is. Yeah. I mean, so, because you were dating somebody, right? Yeah.

And you fucked another girl behind his back. You just didn't tell him. It's identical. It's identical. It's Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You need to go back into therapy. I wonder like if it's like, because it's so interesting to me like, you know, like, you know, okay, so let me just ask you. this. Like, now that, like, you guys broke up, right? Do you break up with him? Or did, like, it didn't break up because of the girl because he didn't know about it, right? He broke up with me for another reason. Okay, so you guys broke up and you're single now, I'm assuming? Yep. Okay. And, like, where are you at as far as, like, what's your deal as far as dating and women and where that fits in with your dating life? Like, have you figured it out? I mean, you're still so young, and this

is like very confusing for anybody. It's confusing for me to even just like listen to it because it's like, you know, you still seem a little bit confused because it's kind of new for you, right? Like in a way. Right. Right. And you're still young. You know, you're just starting out with all this stuff. So where are you at as far as like figuring out what you would say that you are, whether you're by or you're gay, like whether you're going to keep sleeping with women? You know, I still consider myself gay. Okay. I really do.

And it's all because when I think about- You would never want to date a girl, right? Whenever I think about my future and what I want my future to be, it's always with a guy. Right. That's how it is. Well, let me ask you this. Could you ever imagine like cuddling or holding hands with a girl and like dating a girl? Or like, no, you just see women like sexually.

I don't think I could date a girl. I don't think so. Right. Okay. I don't see them as, it's, I don't know if I could say that I see them as solely sex objects. Yeah,

because you like them as a friend, but there is a difference like for someone as bisexual, like that you just see them as somebody that are, like you, you like them as people and you could, maybe you like to feel around them, but you don't feel like you couldn't have romantic feelings for them. There's,

that's a difference. It's almost like just a weird kind of fetish at that point. Yeah. And maybe, listen, I don't know, like me. I don't know if it's tied into like what happened to you at that time or me. Or it's the opposite. Like when that happened and he told you, you were so angry because on some level, like very deep down, it's something that you maybe wanted to do and it triggered that and you like, I don't know.

It's like, it's one of those things. And I wish you had a therapist and you could go ask her and you could come back and tell me what they said to you. I've been meaning to, or I have seen, you know, like, I forget the word, but like kind of like initial consultations for my depression. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, because you're still depressed. Yeah, it comes on and off. Uh-huh. You know, I have gone to, you know, therapist for that, but, you know, financially it's not really viable for me. Right, right, right.

So it's hard. You know, I'd like to. It's definitely not something I'm opposed to. It's just something that's not really feasible for me. Right. And your depression, like, do you think it has to do, like, did all that start after, like, you know, you were outed in high school and, you know, became the outcast? Is that when it started? That's definitely probably what triggered it, I think. Well, I mean, do you remember being depressed or depressive, like, kind of personality, like, before that?

Not nearly as much as. But maybe you just had the tendency and that happened. And, like, yeah, you might still need to talk that shit out if it's still, like, bringing you down. Yeah, I've always been a very cynical person towards a lot of things. And so a lot of, I see a lot of wrongs that I think either it's like society or my friendships. Yeah, you might be a little judgmental. I've seen like I'm kind of, I guess, a pessimist in a lot of ways. And I think that's definitely not helped.

Well, what's interesting is, and this is going to help you see things. And this is what life's all about. And especially your 20s. this is what really humbles you and sort of helps form you to be who you're really going to be is when you do the things that you're doing now. Like, look, somebody, like, did something to you that was so bad that you judged that person for for so long and had such strong feelings against. And now you've done that same exact thing later.

And if you take anything out of it, what you could take is that, like, just stuff like that happens, right? And, like, so maybe you could go. back and like because you probably held on to like all that anger and sort of stuff for him and that doing this and coming full circle should make you sort of let go of that and see that situation very differently and reframe that for you and that's what like everything is about right like so if you could reframe that and then all this other stuff that you're pessimistic about and you're like life is going to probably humble you in the same way like eventually if you get older you're going to realize that all this sort of anger and

judgment basically on all this stuff. Like, I mean, you know, maybe you'll see things differently eventually, you know, because how could you not see this situation differently after you've just like recreated it? It's kind of the same thing when people, especially through college, I think you've mentioned this once before and I hold the same viewpoint of like people that get married when they're very young. People, I mean, the difference between me from 18 and me now at 22, I don't even think I'm the same person.

Yeah, you're going to be like 15 more before. you turn 30, you know, like for real. And that's, that's a great thing. That's what you're supposed to, like, that's what happens in your 20s. That's what it's all about, you know, like, look at who you, like, you have lived in the, like, you told me a story from 16 to 22 and like, look at how far you've gone and how much you've changed, you know, and, you know, who knows what you're going to be doing three years from now as far as girls got, maybe you will have dated somebody. You said, the words you said were, when I said, do you ever picture yourself dating a woman? and you said, I don't think so.

You didn't say no. Right. You said, I don't think so. So, you know, that tells me that maybe there's this tiny little part of you, even if it's 1% that would be able to. And you just don't know that if, you know, five years from now since you are sexually attracted. Like, that maybe that can happen or maybe not. I don't know. But it because, like, like, it's so interesting to see what that would turn into.

You know what I mean? like because like I said you're still young you're still figuring yourself out and because like when you're like a very super pessimistic sort of person that's like you know there's a part of you that's like kind of like that kind of person to me is like someone that's like a little bit closed off and like holding up like a defensive kind of wall against like the world but they also it also puts it up against yourself so like maybe you know you haven't really sort of fully realized stuff about yourself either. You know, all that stuff holds you back from really looking at yourself, right? So the more that that stuff falls off, the more you'll figure out even more of yourself.

I mean, look, you're 22. You're gay, right? But now you're sleeping with women. And you kind of liked it, right? But you're not by. But you're not dating anyone. But, and I think you've had like some fucked up relationships because I mean, I mean, you've only had a couple of relationships and they all sound like kind of like bad you know like or like yeah you know and that happens when you're fucked over like a lot of times like that if you have a very like sort of traumatizing first relationship with somebody you know like what you had with your that guy like it really could shape all the rest of your relationships you know um and make you go down like a terrible path and so I think like if you really could look back at that first one where he pulled the rug from underneath you and

gave you all that pain and everything and look at what you did now and sort of use that to help you get over it. That would be really good for you, you know, because, and if you worked on your depression more, it would be really good for you because then you wouldn't be attracting like, you know, that kind of person because you'll be a better person yourself. Do you know what I mean? Right. That's a good point. Yeah. Like a Chuck's like, unfortunately. So we can never say, I mean, for me, like, you know, all the relationships I had, I had a lot of crazy relationships with a lot of fucking psychopath guys but like that's because i was a psychopath like why would i be with those people i wrote a whole book about it and at the end of every chapter like

i wrote like what i learned from everything and i'm friends with all of them because i would never look back and say oh that per like i don't really believe in looking at situations and say one person is a big victim especially not in relationships and the other person's totally evolved i mean like or like an asshole like most of the time like attracts like i would say a hundred percent of a time. So as fucked up or mentally unstable or crazy as the people are that you look across to, like there's something in you that's at that same place, you know? And you have to figure that out, you know, and that'll help you, you know. Right. I'm kind of coming, you mentioned that. I'm kind of starting to think now, both or these past two exes that I've had have reached out to me.

you know, they have their hand for friendship, but I've turned it down. And, you know, maybe that, maybe that could have, you know, been something beneficial with me. I don't know. I think so. I don't know. I have always, I don't know. I've seen people and I've had people call me.

I'll be like, oh, my God, my ex is calling me. I'm never going to talk to them. And I'm like, why don't you, like, I don't understand that. Like, I've always sort of kept those doors open and I've always gone back. And to me, it's even better when you do that because you see. even more about your relationship, you see even more about them. 100% of the time

when I became friends with that person after I realized 100% the reason why it didn't work out because we weren't right. I could see things more clearly and I was able to like really fully heal from that situation and I think that you know that really helps

and I don't understand people that keep things so closed off to their exes. I mean like take take those invitations and get to know a lot of it. You know? I know a lot of it for me is I'm scared to see if they get into another relationship. I know that's a big part of it for me, the whole jealousy component, which is kind of ironic, you know, looking back at that.

Right. But I have to, I promise you, like, let me just tell you something and just try this fucking up because you're not going to die if you get jealous anyway, right? But just make a test. Become friends with one of them. And wait till they get into a relationship. And I swear to you most likely, like, you, you know, You won't, what you're afraid of probably won't even exist.

Really. And even if you are jealous, it probably won't be as much as you are. And even if it is as much as you, like you think it will be, you will eventually get past it. And when you realize, okay, I dealt with that and like, I'm okay. Like, I really think it could help you resolve things. You know, I just don't think that you would probably be as jealous as you think you would be. And maybe you need to put yourself in that position just to test it out. Because maybe you're holding a false belief about yourself, which is creating like all this sort of closed offness to like people that maybe could be in your life.

You know. Which probably all stemmed from that very first guy. Of course. You should be trying to work on that other stuff so that you could, you know, not attract psychopaths. And then be posting about the girls. I mean, are you still going to fuck girls? Am I like currently? Am I still going to?

Are you still looking? Like, I mean, you had two experiences. I have another one possibly lined up. Oh, you do? Yep. A Tinder one? Yep. Interesting.

And is she, what is she on a scale of one to ten? Oh, she's been better than both of them. I'll give her about an eight. Right. So she's pretty good. And honestly, these opportunities, weirdly enough, don't happen. too often. I don't know if I should ever bring it up. Someone told me that bringing it up would be a good idea because some people think it's a fetish. Some people told me that I shouldn't because

it might scare them off. You mean with a guy to bring it up to a guy? Bring it up with the girls telling them. Oh, oh no, no, no, don't. Don't. Because the girls with a fetish, you know, no, no, don't. Because girls with a fetish, I had a girl that loved by guys, you know, but if you say you're gay, like, you know, that I don't know that anyone has a fetish. I don't know. That anyone has a Maybe somebody has a thing of like changing somebody that's gay But you're not like I don't think the majority of women have that fetish So you know you're better off keeping that a secret And I definitely have a better success rate with the other one so

With what? With like whether I should you know bring it up or not Well you've only fucked two girls and neither one of them knew So what do you mean you've experienced both aside like you've been honest to who Well it's more of again this goes back to the whole Craigslist thing. I put out two ads mentioning it one don't mention any other. You kind of just generally see what the response. But you're not getting anyone real on Craigslist. Okay. In the real world, I'm just telling you like girls, don't bring it up, especially if you're just having a one night

same. I've learned that. Yeah. Yeah. Don't. You know, just to me it's like, are you going to bring it up to guys? And I think like when you're in a relationship, if you meet a guy and he's the next guy is like, like the other guy, everything that you were looking for. And you really like, I think you should wait until things are like really sort of serious. Like, you know, I don't know. Before you bring it up, but like, you know, and you should decide whether you're going to be like monogamous. I don't know like what you're, when you say, you know,

your future looks like to you that you're with a guy. So what happens if you met a guy tomorrow? That was everything. Are you, would you be willing to give up sleeping with girls? Yeah. I'm kind of in the minority, I think, of the gay community, which bothers me a bit. I'm very, if I, if I like someone a lot, I'm very willing to be monogamous.

Right, but you were monogamous in your relast relationship. So you're the biggest hypocrite. I was like, eh, I don't really care about him. Maybe there was that on the side. Yeah, well, just like that first guy, flip it. Okay, I'm sorry to keep bringing up the parallels. Yeah, no, it's fine. It's kind of funny now that you mention it.

It is, right? You know, if everything works out in the end, then, yeah, I mean, I'm willing to give it up. For the right person. I've never gotten to that point yet, but it's kind of how I feel like you would be monogamous if you met somebody and they were right that you'd be okay. Now, you have a girl lined up. Do you have any guys lined up? No, no.

Do you look more like you would have a one night stand with a girl, but like with guys, are you more into like having relationships with them or do you have a lot of one night stands with guys or no? I try not to have one night stands with guys. I'm much more of a relationship-oriented person with guys, which is kind of, Yeah, you sound very bye. That sounds by, but backwards by. You're backwards by. Exactly. Yeah, which makes it kind of weird. But, you know, most of the gay guys, I see it because you know, you have your apps like Grindr. I know that's kind of very well known. But everyone on there seems to want to, you know, just have hookups. And that's not, if someone just kind of messages me, the first message they send to me as a picture of their ass, then I'm not, you know, it could be a very attractive ass, but it's just not. It's not what does it for you. Exactly. What really would get me going in terms of liking this person is, you know, if we have a conversation about something interesting. Yeah, you have to really like them. You're not like you said. You're a relationship guy that totally makes sense. And then you just like what you're, yet you're doing using Tinder. You really are so opposite of like, you know, you're using it to get girls and have one night stands with girls. I really need like people. First of all, I need you to keep me posted to what happens with your hookups or anything. Absolutely. Absolutely. And I really need, if any,

one's listening to this and is in the same situation that you're in, you know, maybe even somebody like a little bit like down the line that maybe was able to figure stuff out, right? That would be even be interesting so we could like tell you what they did or how it turned out for them, you know, because this is kind of new for you. But like I really want to know if other people like this exists. Because like I said, everything I've ever found has always been like these fantasy blogs and you know. Right. Of course. It's nothing, it's nothing realistic. It's nothing like a real story. I don't care how gross that story is. I just I just want to know if anyone's ever been in the same situation. There has to be okay. We all know that. But I want to

hear from them and I want like you know, you know, because I want to know where this story like I feel like we're in the middle of this story and I think that's like you don't even, I'm a little confused. I think you're a little confused, but not in a bad way confused. You know what I mean? Putting it like like lightly. Yeah. More like. interested in where it's going to go and what it means and what it's all about, you know? And I want to know, like, if there's somebody out there, which I'm sure there is that's further down the line, like, what could be the end of this? But like, you know, you're your own person.

So like, you're going to have your own story, you know. So, you know, keep me posted. Keep us posted. And I always do like callbacks if anything interesting happens. But get your stuff back into therapy. Keep me posted. And good luck with everything. and thanks so much for calling in with this story

because I don't know that I never had this topic on and I don't know that I ever will again, but we'll see. And I'll let you know if I get any emails from anybody. Please do. I mean, email strictly anonymous podcast at gmail.com if you're a gay guy that's with girls. Or a gay woman that's with guys. Thank you, Gary, for calling in, seriously.

All right. Thank you so much. Have a good night. You too. Bye. Bye. Okay. I just want to tell you, before you,

that my book, it's called Strictly Anonymous Confession, Secret Sex Lives of Total Strangers, is now available not only in paperback and e-book, but you can pre-order the audiobook. It's still not going to be out until August 25th, but you can pre-order it. The book is basically 17 different stories taken from my show. I kind of picked one story from each category that I talk about on my show. Like there's a hot wife story. There's a cuck queen story. There's a cuck queen story. There's a cuck story. There's a gang being girl story. Like I said, 17 stories. And they're all told in the third person. And they're all true. I took the interview and rewrote it in the third person. And I wouldn't really call it like a total erotica book. Think like penthouse letters. It's more direct. It's not

so over the top like erotica. I don't really like that kind of vibe, right? But these are true stories, 17 of them. They're really short. Chapters, easy read. You could read, you know, one or two and then skip around. You could read the whole book. It's available in eback format, paperback format, and finally, the audiobook is available coming out August 25th, but you could pre-order it now. And if you buy my book in any format or pre-order it, I will throw in a complimentary link to my Discord. My Discord does not disappoint. Okay. There's no way you get into my Discord any other way than getting the link from me. Okay, I give it to people who buy my book. There's tons of people in there. Everybody shares content with each other. And that's what you get to do

there. You could post your own pictures and videos. There's tons of channels. We have lots of contests where you can win a lot of money. It's a super fun place to be. It's a total, strictly anonymous community and you will love it. I will be giving anyone who buys my book access to my Discord. It's private, like I said. All you got to do is, email me a screenshot of your purchase, whether you did the audiobook, the ebook, or the paperback. Send it to me at Strictly Anonymous Podcast at gmail.com. That's Strictly Anonymous Podcasts at gmail.com. And I will send you the link to Discord.

So anyway, thanks so much for tuning in. This is the Strictly Anonymous Podcast.