Strictly Anonymous Confessions - 188 - Jim is a Professional Swinger

Episode Date: July 24, 2017

Jim has been swinging since he was eighteen years old and now that he's in his forties, he's ready to help others learn how to swing. How did he get into swinging at such a young age? What kind of people did he swing with? How is he now helping others? Tune on to find out plus hear all about how and why he started one of the largest swingers parties on the East Coast which catered to hot, young couples and hear all about what went down at those parties. **To see anonymous pics of my female guests + hear anonymous confessions + get all the episodes early and AD FREE, join my Patreon! It's only $7 a month and you can cancel at any time. You can sign up here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.patreon.com/StrictlyAnonymousPodcast⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and when you join, I'll throw in a complimentary link to my private Discord! MY BOOK IS NOW OUT FOR PRE-ORDER!!!! Strictly Anonymous Confessions: Secret Sex Lives of Total Strangers. A bunch of short, super sexy, TRUE stories. GET YOUR COPY NOW: https://amzn.to/4i7hBCd To Join SDC and get a FREE Trial! click here: https://www.sdc.com/?ref=37712 or go to SDC.com and use my code 37712 Want to be on the show? Email me at [e-mail] or go to http://www.strictlyanonymouspodcast.com and click on "Be on the Show" Have something quick you want to confesss while remaining anonymous? Call the CONFESSIONS hotline at 347-420-3579. You can call 24/7. All voices are changed. Sponsors: https://bluechew.com Get your first month FREE! https://butterwellness.com/ Try the Butter Wellness perineum massager and use code STRICTLY for 20% off your entire order Follow me! Instagram https://www.instagram.com/strictanonymous/ Twitter https://twitter.com/strictanonymous?lang=en Website http://www.strictlyanonymouspodcast.com/ Everything else https://linktr.ee/Strictlyanonymouspodcast Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome to the strictly anonymous podcast. Strictly anonymous podcast. Conversations with online strangers. We place ads online. The Craigslist is definitely like the gift that keeps on giving. Real people respond. You go to Singapore or Thailand. You can't not do it.

The temptation is just too much. It's real problem. Do your friend know that you're banging her or no? No, he has no idea. And anything goes. Motto of the show, let your freak flag fly. Probably the only good advice I'll ever give you is to rehire. your whips and chain. Here is your host, Kathy.

Hey, welcome to the Strictly Anonymous podcast with Kathy. If you want to follow the Strictly Anonymous podcast on Instagram or Twitter, follow the show at Strict Anonymous. If you want to be on my show, this is a call-in-vice show where I talk to people anonymously about their, about all kinds of stuff, really. Most people call in because they want to share their secret lives that they live. I really like giving advice. So I really like giving advice. So I love when people call in with a problem. And some people like the guy today call in because they're looking to talk about, not even a secret life, but just talk about an interesting life that they have.

And they're looking to help people. This is a guy who's like a professional swinger. And when I say professional, I mean like he's been doing it since the dawn of time. He, and he's like in his 40s. So when he was doing it, it was like, you know, not as open. It wasn't as like not normal because it's not really normal now, but it was like even more off the radar back then. So he was pretty ballsy. He started doing this very young age and him and his girl started a party and they turned it into a business. And, you know, now he actually has a website

called Thinking Swinging. I'm Thinking of Swinging.com. Thinking of swinging.com. I'm sorry. And he's actually helping people who are looking to become swingers themselves. And this is the guy that can help people because he, like I said, has been doing it since the beginning since he's 18 years old. And besides, you know, doing it himself and having completely open relationships with the women he was married to, he started parties. And now he has this website and he's looking to help people.

And that's what he does in my podcast. He talks all about his history and his past and how he got into all. those things. And he also talks about how, like, things that people could do to become swingers that will help them. I don't think that makes sense, but you know what I mean. It'll all be in the description. But anyway, Jim, I'm going to be right back on with Jim. He's interesting. So just hold on for Jim. So Jim, I don't, the only thing I know about you is what your ad stated on Craigslist. I found you on Craigslist. I get my people a lot of different ways. Sometimes I actually, I actually put an ad and people respond. Sometimes I go looking for ads, right? Now, I remember your ad was

like male woman for male woman and I thought it was like sort of like maybe a couple looking for other couples and, you know, and then inside it was more like you were looking to give people advice of how to sort of navigate the alternative lifestyle, right? Is that correct? That's correct. Right. And so is it because you have, I mean, instead in your ad you were 30, are you 30? Is it because you've had like a, extensive experience sort of swinging? I do, and I found that Craigslist seems to be kind of where a large majority of people that enter this lifestyle end up going. Totally.

It's a huge vast, usually when people come to this aspect of wanting to try something alternative, it's usually where they turn. Yeah. Unfortunately, what people don't know, it's a large, large percentage of people that are on, also on Craigslist are people that are not real. So we found over the years, you are assuming correct, I have a lot of experience and many years of experience, we found just a huge amount of people that are not who they say they are or they're opposing as a couple, and it's usually a single guy looking to collect photos or even just people looking to have some sort of alternative interaction

but really don't have any intention whatsoever of following through or meeting with people. So maybe those people are looking because I've had like a lot of people on my show who I, like I said, I found on Craigslist and they've experienced all those things. But I've also had people who like are cheating on their partners and they just cheat virtually. right so they just are really looking for people who maybe want to kind of get it on like on via webcam or something but like not actually in person because that's kind of like where they draw the line or what you know how far they feel like they want to go do you think that that other group of people that you're talking about it's maybe that's the case with them or they're

just pulling your chain um it's difficult i i i the reason why i specifically did it is to get those people that are just entering into this aspect and hopefully try and save them from having to deal with all just the running around and the wasted time and energy to come to find out that it's somebody that is not actually going to actually meet them or somebody that they think that is not really who they say they are. I've met so many people after the fact that have been resilient to possibly try some other avenue other than Greg List or met people through the years and they've all had a very similar experience, a very negative one with Craiglitz.

So I felt the need to try and help people and direct them in a way that they could actually really find what they're truly looking for. Yeah, well, you can help my listeners because I get people on all the time who are in certain situations and they're looking for like that perfect situation that would sort of be right for or fit into their lifestyle, right?

Something maybe alternative out of the box. maybe because they're married, it has to be very specific, or they're a couple and they're looking for something. And they do find that there's so much weeding out of garbage on Craigslist, right? But there's no other real place. I mean, I used to go on adult friend finders to look for people, too. And I had like one or, I had a couple of people actually that I found on adult friend finders that came in here. But there wasn't a lot of action on there either, even though there's so much content on there, you would think that people actually would be hooking up a lot more than they really are an adult friend finders.

And then I would look at back page and that was like strictly like a lot of escorts and hookers, right? But like where do married couples or couples who want to play or even singles, right, who want to play? Go. And most people like you say go to Craigslist and then they just encounter all this nonsense. So like what is your advice to people? Oh my goodness. Where do you start?

But let's start with you because you're 30 years old. right? And that's kind of young. No, no, hold on. Oh, no, okay. So just let me, yeah, let me explain that. The sweet spot seems to be 30 years old with this alternative lifestyle. That's why I put my age at 30. I'm actually 45 years old.

Oh, okay, cool. Listen, I do the same when I post my ad. I post it young because if people are, like, looking within an age range, right? So I should do 30. That's like the age. Well, the reason I did that is because I want people to feel comfortable. If I was 25 years old, getting advice from a 45-year-old, people that I deal with that are much younger take that, that term slinger. And immediately it comes into their mind that, you know, it's somebody over 50, they're fat, their gray hair, they're bald, and they're going to a party, and as soon as they walk through the door, they whips off their clothes and have sex.

Right. And this, that's just not the aspect anymore, and really never was. but I try and just give people the most comfortability as I can in order to give them some good advice. I said, fine what you're looking for. To touch on the couple of sites that you actually mentioned, it's really funny because adult friend finder a lot of the different sites back page,

all the sites really kind of hit on a very specific thing. Although they're huge and they have so much content, it seems that when people go to those sites, they do get really overwhelmed, especially when they're new. Right. But what do you think that they're focusing on, on, like, say, an adult friendbind? Because I had people that went on there, like people that called in, that, you know,

said that they tried to look, like, hook up. I had one guy that was looking for gang bang, like, a couple. That's one that sticks out for me. But I know that a lot of people said that they didn't have success on adult friendbriders. And when I was on there looking for people, I found that I thought there seemed like there were so many people on there. I think Adult Friend Finder is, and you've got to remember, some of the terms that we use are so, so blanketed. Yeah. And you say it's like a hookup site.

And I don't mean that in a bad way in any way. But I think Adult Friend Finder is something where it's a couple, a single, guy, girl, whatever, and they know what they want. They know what they want. They go on, they look for it, or they put on an ad, and they're looking for Bing, Bang, Boom. They're looking to deal with what they want, what they want. They're looking to find someone, connect, hook up, and that's it. Right. In my experience with Adult Friend Finder, you may find other things on there as far as people

looking for an actual ongoing relationship or an ongoing friendship or things like that as well. But Adult Friend Finder seem to be kind of like so difficult. I would say it's more singles on Adult Friend Finder. Mm-hmm. Than couples. As opposed to couples. Mm-hmm. And were you always in this like alternative lifestyle?

as a couple or like did you start doing stuff when you were like younger as a single person? The first experience I had was with my prospective partner when I was 18. She was 19. Mm-hmm. And I was with her from age 18 for 15 years. Oh, wow. Okay. Throughout that 15 years, we had several experiences together, realized that the alternative lifestyle was something that we really enjoyed and ended up. up starting an adult lifestyle party or event company that we worked at events with for about

eight years throughout the New England area, New York City, Boston, Providence. It was a very specific group of people. It was catering to younger, attractive single females and couples. We vetted people, we interviewed people. At the end, when I sold the company, we had about 800 members. as couples and probably about 80 or 90 single females that were members. Right. And then you sold the company.

Did you sell it because someone offered you or you just felt like you could like kind of cash in or were you like moving on to different things? Are you and that girl broke out? Divorced. You divorced. Okay. Yeah. Divorce is what pushed that to then stop that company. Okay.

From then on, I actually was single for a few years, met another person who was completely vanilla. married her, was with her for seven years, and then got divorced again. And at that point in my life realized that I just didn't believe in monogamous. Right. Well, were you ever monogamous to anyone anyway? I mean, these were open relationships, right? No, actually, the second marriage was completely monogamous. Oh, right, right.

And so that's why that didn't work for you. And you were completely monogamous for all those years when you were with her? for seven years, correct. Were you miserable when you, and that's what you realized? Like, at the end of it, that it didn't work? Not at all, actually. But it was kind of like that I really had nothing to do with how my life went. Right.

However, at the end of that seven-year marriage, it did realize that I truly didn't believe that monogamy was for me. Now, whether or not that it was in a completely, you know, I didn't know in what aspect. I didn't know if it was going to be in a committed relationship and we were going to be, have an open relationship. I didn't know if we were going to have a lifestyle relationship. I didn't know. I didn't know what, you know, what specifically the relationship was going to be. But I just knew that I just wasn't a believer in monogamous.

Right. And now are you currently in? Did you have another relationship after that second marriage? Are you in a relationship now? Correct. I am in a relationship. I've been in the same relationship for two years. We're emotionally monogamous.

we are not sexually monogamous. However, we only play together. Right. With other couples and that's, and with other couples. Other couples and other singles as well. Now, let's go back to when you were 18 because, like, I mean, I'm 48, so I'm like in your, you know, what the fuck is that word? I can't think I have to edit this. Generation.

No, your generation. So, I mean, I think, like, you know, at 18 years old, you know, people that are like younger, nowadays don't really realize that like when you were doing that at 18 that was pretty you know there was a lot more out of the box than it is today you know and the fact that you know and you didn't get into that with this girl like many years into your relationship like you said you met her when you were 18 and you guys started you know sort of exploring the alternative lifestyle together at 18 both you and her I mean you were pretty progressive and so was she at that age and in that time period you know right right right

And it's super, super interesting to me. I talk a lot about this with my current partner. And I actually jotted down some bullet points because we wanted to kind of discuss. I wanted to make sure I touch base with you about my past. And I had an early sexual awareness. And with the people that I've met throughout my life, I kind of realized a common thread there where from a very, very young age, you know, masturbation was normal or just something that just happened.

Throughout my childhood, my parents were very liberal. You know, sex was always something that just wasn't taboo. It was discussed. My father brought me to a nude beach when I was eight. You know, I wasn't abused in any way. I had a very normal upbringing. And I don't know if any of those specifically had any sort of of fact.

But when I was 18 and my then girlfriend had come to me and said that she had a bisexual experience in high school and she was wanting to read her to that. So that was the door opening to us going down that path of seeking someone that we could, you know, facilitate that for her. Right. And it snowballed into something more. We quickly realized that finding a single bi-female was very difficult. It was at that time, right?

Well, it still is now. To find a single-by-female to hook up with a couple or to have some sort of relation with a couple is tricky. In many different ways, I've found over the years that usually, if that does happen, it's very short-lived. The single female usually has some sort of remorse or regret due to the fact that it's for any short term of the walk of shame,

she's going home alone. So, you know, we, I say we, in my past, I've had very many, many experiences with my partner in a single female, and usually it's not something that ends up being long-term. The people that I have stayed friends with, it ends up being a non-sexual friendship. if it's just a regular friendship. We stayed friends over the years. Right. And now with that girl, when you were 18 and then you got, you know, you guys sort of started

to play around with another female. Like, did you also then, like, like, how did it progress? Like, I mean, I'm assuming it progressed to couples because eventually you guys, like, started, like you said, an event business. Right. So when we first started looking for a single female, we quickly realized how difficult it was. So what we progressed too was, you know, as we learned about the alternative lifestyle and swinging or whatever you want to call it, we realized that there were other couples out there that were also looking for another bi-female.

So we then what we did back then where we placed an actual classified ad, which sounds like it's in the Flintstones nowadays. we put a newspaper out in the Phoenix, if anybody remember that, that basically said we were looking for another couple where the female was buff, and we then pursued couples where my then-ex-wife would play with the female, and then we would be with our prospective partners. There would be no other interaction other than the girls being together, and then, like I said, my wife would be with me, and his wife would be a car. Right. There was no full swap, though.

There wasn't any swap at all other than the girl's playing. Right, right. Okay. You know, and then obviously we progressed from there into realizing that it was, you know, exciting and obviously trying different things and so on and so forth. And did you find that like when you got involved with the couples, like that was kind of the solution to the problem? Like if you're a couple looking for a buy girl or the woman is looking for bi experiences, you're more likely to have something that's going to be ongoing. And if you find another couple and the woman is by right, then just going out and looking

for a by single woman, right? Yeah. I always put myself in the single by female shoes. I mean, it's really a single by female. I can hook up with anyone. I could hook up with a couple. I could hook up with a guy. I could hook up with a girl.

So when you're looking for something like that, the chance of, of your finding it are probably pretty slim. It's just... Right, because she has so many choices, right? And probably the last choice would be the couple, right? She'd prefer probably to be with just the single woman, right? Her one-on-one. Right, unless there's some sort of other kind of relationship with that couple.

You know, I have had many, many couples over the years that had a single female friend. And, you know, there's an attraction to the couple due to the fact that she's, knows them. And that usually is the road it goes down where, you know, they may mention, hey, listen, you know, would you be interested in having fun with us as opposed to just answering an ad or finding somebody at a bar or, you know, and the other thing, too, not usually, but a big part of the time, the single bi-female is that we'll either go to a slingers party alone or are seeking out a couple. usually are

how do I put it delicately or a little bit a little bunny boiler you know that term what is the word you say oh like a little scary

a little crazy yeah a little you know if I'm going to have any kind of alternative relationship with anybody I want to make sure that they're you know

they're mentally stable yeah they have their wits about them I don't want them you know hanging out of outside my door tomorrow morning and or whatever it may be.

But with past experience, I've found usually a single female that are seeking that out are not necessarily 100% stable. Right. What do you call it the bunny boiler? Like Glenn Close in a not Glenn Close. What was that? Oh, it wasn't it Glenn Close? Yeah, yeah, I'm basic instinct. Where she boiled the kids' money.

Yeah, totally. Okay. So how did you guys, so you and your, you guys, did you in that? first wife ever fully swap? I know you said you started it with like she was just going with other women. Like how do you get to the point where you guys are doing that and then you start this whole

sort of business? Did you get like, because I know you did the ad looking for another couple, right? Did you eventually put an ad together like when you started like one party and then that party just got bigger and bigger and then you turned it into like an events business? Is that what happened?

It's an interesting story. I actually was originally we were in New York City when we first started in this lifestyle we moved back up to New England where I'm originally from so when we moved back up to New England

I placed an ad in a paper and I happened to be in an adult store picking up that paper and the gentleman that was actually delivering the papers I kind of nudged him and I opened the paper

and I said there was an ad in the paper for a swingers party. And I nudged him and I said, hey, do you know anything about this party? And he says, I know everything about that party. It's mine. Oh, wow, that's so funny. What a weird coincidence, right?

Right. We just started chatting. And he was an older gentleman. Like I said, at the time, I think I was 21, and my ex was 22. And he said, you should come to the party. And I said, okay. I said, sure.

You know, if I said, when is it? He said, Saturday. We ended up going to this party. It was at a holiday inn. in a suite. And we got there. And like I said, I was 21. I think my ex was 22.

And I would say that everybody at the party was over 50. So it was kind of like what you were, was it kind of like what you were describing earlier when you said like that's what people think in their mind? Exactly. And it was about 20 people in the suite of a hotel room. So it was a very awkward moment. So my ex at the time said, get me the hell out of here immediately. And we, we stayed for about 10-15.

I need a visual. Like, was everyone naked and over 50 and, like, sort of busted looking? Or, like, was everyone, like, in the midst of getting it on? Or did you get there early on and everyone's all their clothes on? It was more of, like, the high school dance feeling. And, like, about people were over 50. There are, at the time, and what I remember, people were not very attractive due to the fact that we were 20.

Right. You know, I don't necessarily think that they were extremely unattractive, but we weren't attracted to them because of the age. difference. And so I, you know, we gracefully kind of bowed out, but the gentleman that was hosting the party kind of flagged me down and, and chat with me in the hallway. And he said, you know, he said, I, you know, I kind of wanted to try and warn you. However, he said, would you be interested in hosting events like this for younger crowd? He said, I have a lot of people that respond and they ask me the age range and they're extremely discouraged due to the fact that

I can't cater to what they're looking for. So would you be interested in hosting events? I'll show you how to do everything. So that's kind of how it started. He kind of mentored me into hosting events and kind of took it to a different level. What I would do is host a VIP area of a very nice nightclub, usually from like seven to ten. And then I would either rent out a floor of a hotel or a local mansion or home, and that's where the after party would be. And we usually would hire some sort of really interesting or off-the-wall entertainment. We had fire spinners and belly dancers and also the different kind of crazy things throughout

the eight years that I did host events. Oh, wow. And how much were you charged for those events? It depends on what was, it depends on what the event, some events were just at a nightclub. didn't have an after party. So depending on the cost of the event, so anywhere from 75 a couple upwards of 250 a couple. Right, depending on how much you had to put out to create the event. So when you did it at a nightclub, I'm assuming you booked the whole club, right?

Because people are going to get it on at this club, right? I mean, like you're... No. No? No. No? It was kind of a sweet spot. So I had some friends that were in the club industry as well as far as DJing.

So I had kind of an inn. So my pitch to most of the nightclubs was, you know, I'll fill your VIP area from 7 to 10 with hot people that have this sexy vibe to them. But by 10, 10, 30, they're looking to go elsewhere and talk. They're not looking to stay till 1. So most of the time, these nightclubs were really starting to get busy at that time. So you would have early patrons coming into the club and kind of wondering what the heck was going on. There were these, you know, very

attractive people filling the VIP area. They were all kind of already slightly in the bag and they were all slightly frisky and they're all leaving the club. So a lot of people when I was having it, I'm sorry? No, go on. I'm sorry. A lot of people that were regular patrons of the nightclubs

were asking the employees of the club, what the heck was going on. Yeah, they're like, we want to get here a little earlier. Like, we've missed something, you know? Right. Exactly. So I had about seven clubs that were my staple clubs that I would host events throughout the year. I had anywhere from six to ten events a year. So like I said, I would do the Vieter until about 10, 10, 10, 30,

and then just let people know or give private invites to the after party. Depending on the size of the club, depending on the size of the after party, I would cater specifically as far as numbers. So if I had a mansion, that would be, you know, a good 80 people, I would kind of cut it at 40 couples. Right. And then at the after-party, there would either be, you know, I would hire people to pass up, I'd talk about strawberries or warm towelettes, or it was really catered well to the vibe and the feel because I wanted it to be very special.

Right. And more upscale, maybe more trendy. Do you just something that would appeal more so to these younger hot people? that you wanted to show up at your party than like maybe what you were saying before like what people thought these 50-year-olds that would show up at a holiday yeah yeah i had a pretty a pretty close friend at time of hosting these events and he was um he was a big part of of how they went together and he used to always say to me um you know what we want to prevent what we want to um we want an event that people are asking when the

next one is before this one ends. Right. And a lot of times, that's what happened. It was, it was, it was pretty interesting. Let me ask you this. Did you have a day job, too? Or was it, did this wind up being like how you made your money? I mean, you said you just did seven of them a year, right? So I'm assuming you did something else on the side? I did. Yeah, I had a full-time job throughout that time. And to be honest, we, we really kind of put most of the money back into the event. I didn't make, I really didn't make a whole lot of money from hosting events. It was really, really, really, a lot of time, a lot of energy, and a lot of fun.

But at the end of the day, I mean, towards the end of hosting events, I had a lot of lifestyle resorts that were actually giving me vacations to give away at the events. Oh, wow. Because you had such a following and, like, you were known in that world, I'm assuming? Yeah, but this was mid-90s. So we started, I'm trying to think. We started, well, I started in like 97, I think, a lot of the last, that was 05. So hedonism and desire and Cancun, those are those resorts were just starting out.

So the rep for Hito actually came and it contacted me and said she wanted to set up a table at one of my parties. And then when she realized the caliber of people, she offered to give me any time I had an event a free, a free like five-day vacation to kind of raffle off. Wow. And now how you guys were vetting people, right, for your party? And like what was like, I mean, if you had to say, like, a scale of one to ten, like, was nobody under a seven invited into your party? You're like, well, how did you sort of, because you want to, I guess you're, you had people send you pictures.

Like, how did you figure out who was attractive and allowed to come to your party and who was it? It's really interesting because it's a, it's one of the questions I get the most often. And that gentleman that I spoke to you about earlier kind of said to me, you know, if you put up a vetting system, that vets itself. So if you have people jump through a certain number of hoops and you have to ask them to do certain things, it almost evoked itself. I very, very rarely had a couple apply that I declined. Right.

And what was your vetting system? Like they had to send a picture? Like what were the things that sort of would maybe deter somebody who was like maybe a BBW or a four on a scale of one? And that's, it's funny because, really, a side note, we actually were labeled. the Ken and Barbie group. Right. Because the people that wouldn't apply because they knew they just wouldn't get in

kind of got a little bit of a sour taste. But on the site, it explained who we catered to. We catered the people that were a little bit more upscale, height weight proportions, younger, attractive, in shape, single females and couples. That's who we catered to.

And we had couples in their 40s at the time, and even late 40s, apply. And I felt that if those people had the balls to apply, who am I, if they're not unattractive and not overweight, to tell them that they couldn't come? Right. So a lot of times people did come that were a little bit older. And some had the tenacity to stick around and come to other events. Others, you could see that they felt that they didn't fit in.

because at the time it was, I would say majority, were in their 20s, early 30s. Right. So. Yeah, that's crazy. That's like amazing. I remember there was like a guy who I knew in New York who was like dating a model and he was somebody kind of well known and he used to go to these parties in New York

and he talked about them very openly where there were like really hot people, you know. And you almost, it's. almost seems like they're explaining like a unicorn to you. You're like, yeah, okay, like, there's this place where you could go or like all these like super hot people like fuck each other and like get it on. You're just like, yeah, okay. But like these things, it does really exist. Like you were able to find people in their 20s because I think like you said, a lot of people think, oh, swingers or people that do that are like over 50 and gross or it's just like a dirty thing, you know. But you found and even like,

way back then, you found really attractive in shape hot people to show up that were in their 20s and they were young and they were into that kind of lifestyle. Yes, absolutely. I think

a lot of people don't realize how much really goes on out there. That's what my show's all about. Trust me. You know, that's, you know, I've been doing for over three years and I post a new episode every week and it never ceases to amaze me the stories that I hear. And my whole thing is like, this is like, people, I think,

have a vision in their head of, like, the kind of people that do, like, sort of elicit things or whatever, and they think that they look like someone that they don't know. I don't know. But I'm always like, it's the person sitting next to you in the restaurant. It's the person that's working down the hall from you. It might be your cousin or your husband. You just, you know what I mean? These are regular people are doing these kinds of things that I have on my show and that, and what you experience throughout your sort of alternative lifestyle as well, right? Right. Right. I mean, just recently there was some High-Wanking Sheriff Officer or somebody in government that was outspid that he was a swinger and resigned. And I was baffled as to why he resigned. Yeah, I know. There was like a real big Hollywood exec. I forget. He was super, super old. Like, I forget who he was. He was really well-known, very high up there. And he, I think he had, like, escorts or he was on tape, like, sort of soliciting blitz.

jobs and like he was like ridiculed like nobody's business in the media and I was kind of like what's the big deal like that's like what he was into and he was getting his fucking rocks off like what does anyone matter like how is that make him a bad person or even weird or I don't know it was very weird to me and I think a lot of people are pretty hypocritical the people that are judging it because we all know that a lot of people either have these fantasies or jerking off to them behind closed doors or doing them behind everyone's backs and not really talking about it you I mean. Right.

Exactly. Like, come on. Exactly. I think personally, and I'm sure you see this, that I think that I'm always like, oh, I was born in the wrong time. Like, I would have been a lot happier, like, if I was born now. Like, I mean, you know, because I think the younger generation are a lot more open-minded and doing things at a younger age and being more open about it and able to express it

and stuff, you know, nowadays is very different, don't you think? it's interesting to me on two sides of that. Number one, because I see it all the time when I say, I always use the word lifestyle. And it confuses people like the tilted doghead look all the time because I don't want to use the word swinger. Because as soon as I do, if you're under 35, they give you that disgusted look. Yeah, totally. Even if they're in an open relationship, because it's just not something that they relate to. there's so many different labels now as to specifically, very specifically, as to what

you're open-minded about, whether it's sexual or... I've heard, I've got one... Yeah, I've got emails with people and I'm like, can you explain to me what that is? Like, tri-amory and I was like, what the fuck does that mean? So, yeah, you're right, it is very specific nowadays. In a way, I think it's kind of bullshit as a millennial. Wait, you just cut out. As a millennial, what was that?

it's bullshit. Say that again because you cut out. I said, I said, I think sometimes with the millennials, I think it's bullshit, they just need a specific label. Because if you, if you slightly, you know, misinterpret as to specifically what they're in, they get offended. Yeah, but, you know, don't we remember, like, what it's about to, yeah, but, like, I think, like, as, when you're in your 20s, like, it's like, it's like the 10 years of, like, being a fucking know-it-all.

I just think this is, like, what being a 20-something-something, you're, you're, but, like, I think this is, like, world is all about it. You're right. Like, they do get very into their labels and they're very married to them and it is very, it is a thing with them, right? But I think, you know, they'll eventually realize and become a little bit looser with that stuff when they hit over 30 and life experience shows them that, you know, maybe it's not, you can't be so narrow-minded. Do you know what I mean? Like, come on. Right. And narrow-minded on a specific, you know, alternative site. Yeah, of course. So get back to you. So you started that, and I know that you have, bullet. So like if I'm taking you very off topic and you want to keep to something that you want

to tell my listeners, like you could lead me back. Like that's fine. I know that I, I like to get on a call and I told you like not sort of knowing anything. But if you want to, if you have a sort of a set agenda that you want to stick to, you know, be my guest to lead me down that path. Okay. Well, I do want to, I just, I want to touch on how I got to where I posted this ad on Craigslist. We, I'm now two years into a, another relationship, and it's very similar to my very first relationship when I was 18. I met this person. We realized that we're both alternative.

She's bisexual. So, you know, we came to the realization fairly quickly in our relationship that we wanted to indulge in this lifestyle together. A quick question. Where did you meet her? Like, did you meet her just in a regular situation? And it turned out that she was like-minded, like, you know, or did you meet her on a an adult sort of or alternative like dating site? No, it was okay, Cupid.

Okay. But I'll mention that, I'll mention that after I get divorced the second time, I saw a, I saw a trend in the women that I was dating. And I underwent therapy for about a year, and I said to my therapist, I had, there's a trend here, so I need to know what the hell I'm doing wrong. There was a pattern. Yeah. Yeah, she pretty much coached me for about a year, and I was fell of it for a year.

Oh, interesting. What was your pattern? I was taking care of women that needed to be taken care of. Okay. There was a common threat of them being abused. Mm-hmm. And I was... The savior.

You're a savior. Right. Exactly. Mm-hmm. And I didn't love myself. So I needed to kind of reel back and realize what was really, really important to me, learned to love myself. And then it's funny because she had me, you know, like I said, hold off in a year.

And I started dating for about seven or eight months. And when I dated, my dating pattern was completely different than what it used to be. And did she tell you specific things to do to change that or because you had changed through the therapy that it just naturally changed? Both, both. You know, she really made me sit down and think about what was the, what were the most important things to me. Right.

And then if I realized right off the bat that that was not something that was a trait in the person that I was, you know, going on a date with, I basically, there was one time, we weren't even halfway through our first drink. And, you know, the bartender asked her if you wanted to know a drink. And I said, you know, well, I'm going to head out after this one. She was kind of appalled. And she was like, did I say something wrong? And I said, no, it's not something that you said that was wrong. I just know that we're not going to mesh well. I already know.

Right. And it was, I mean, how long? Right. I mean, it was one drink into it and you could just tell that maybe she was another person that had been abused. Well, not the same traits, but I just knew that we weren't going to. Right. You know, everybody's been on that date where you're like, oh, my goodness. Yeah.

You know, this is, I need to run to the hills, you know. Right. And I think that, listen, I always say this. I think men are the pickers a lot of the times. And I think that, like, because I hear stories, I love to hear people's stories about how they met the person that they're with. like that, you know, whether they're married or dating for 10 years. And I hear so many times from guys, like, I just saw her across the room, I just, or I just met her and I just knew, you know, and I think a lot of the times when it's the right person, you do kind of just know,

you know? And that's typically how, when it does work out. I mean, the person that I'm with now, I had a really good inkling, I think mostly because I was on solid, I was on my solid two feet, as opposed to hoping something would change. Right. And you were kind of lucky because you still found somebody like, you know, because I always say like attracts like, right? And you were looking for somebody like sort of super stable and different and like sort of their emotional makeup, right?

But you still probably wanted somebody because you said coming out of that seven-year relationship, you knew you were that into monogamy. You were probably still looking for somebody that was more alternative. as well, right? And like, I don't know if you put that out there in your ad, but it's interesting that you attracted exactly what you were looking for. Well, it's funny you say that. So I don't know if you're realized, are you familiar with OKCupid at all? Yeah. Uh-huh. Yeah. I met, I have a guy named Dr. Guy that I've talked about on my show that I met on OKCupid. Yes. I think, I think OKCupid has one genius thing. And that's the question. So when you ask somebody a question, obviously it's all in how

you worded. I think they have a genius aspect of that website where they ask people questions and I tell every single person that I know it's single. Go on OKCupid and answer 600 fucking questions. Oh, those questions? Yeah. Because

it's just the way they're worded. One of the questions I'll never forget it says, do you think, or is it okay for someone to sleep with someone that's married if all three people know what's going on.

Right. Yes, no. Right. Yeah. It's basically a loaded question at the whether or not you think swinging is okay. Totally. And that's just one specific question, but the questions and how they ask them, and then the whole thing of how important it is to you, I think is huge.

Right. And they do generate something that you could look at, right? If you don't look at the specific question, they do generate this kind of thing that says this person is more sexual-oriented. Right? Isn't that how they sort of aggregate and put it all together and then give you like the synopsis of what those answers tell you about? Different categories. Religious, religion or sexual. But you can also say, you know, who's my best match out there? So if the person that you're looking at on OKCupid and you're attracted to them and you both have answered, you know, a good number of questions and you're about a 92% match, I know that if I go to dinner with this person, they're probably, I'm an atheist, I know they're not going to. be, you know, a hardcore Muslim.

Not that that's a problem, but I just know that in general, you know, I can't stand messy people. So I'm pretty sure that that other person is going to also be a little bit of an OCD and E freak. Right. You know, this person despise sushi because I love sushi. I go for sushi once a week. So there's a little tiny, small aspects that if you're going to be living with someone,

I think you're probably going to jive on 82 or 92% of those things. I think that that's genius. Right. So it was a lot less random than I was thinking it was. It wasn't kind of like it just sort of worked out that way. It was that you answered those questions in a way that sort of put it out there to your potential matches that you had this alter, you were into alternative stuff. And they sort of set you people that were most likely going to be people that were that way themselves.

Correct. And I didn't know the site worked that way until I actually got some. familiar with it. And that's really all I did. I really kind of focused on that whole percentage thing. And every chance I got, I answered more questions because I thought it was genius. Right. Okay, cool. So you finally meet this one and she doesn't turn you off after the first drink. Right. And you wind up starting a relationship with her. Yeah. Because I didn't want to get to how you put out the ad. Yeah, we take the ball down the road. I've had, it's funny, after not being so in 2005, I kind of, you know, pulled away from the whole alternative lifestyle.

I couldn't host swingers events anymore because you can't be the single creepy guy hosting swingers events. It just doesn't work. Okay. So I had my last event, and then I kind of pulled away, but it then, geez, you know, 10 years since I had been involved in its lifestyle. So kind of getting back into things and realizing that the, and I say the lifestyle was, I would say six, seven hundred percent more prevalent in the United States in 10 years long. Right. It is become, the lifestyle travel alone is a $7 billion a year industry.

Right. It's just ridiculous. Right. So the avenues of me having, you know, experiencing this lifestyle for, you know, a good 10 years. And then I sit down from the computer and I'm over. allowed. Right. I was blown away to all the different lifestyle sites, all of different lifestyle, everything. And I knew the ones that I used to use. And some of them kind of fell by the wayside. Some of them became much more prominent. So I started to get involved and kind

of go through things. And we weren't finding what we were looking for. Mostly, I think, because the system seems to be archaic. And the only way I can explain that is there's 100 lifestyle sites out there. They're all the same. You still have a free profile, and I put free in quotes. Right. You fill out the profile, you jump through all these hoops. You go online, you send somebody a message, and then the website says,

well, if you want to correspond with this person, you have to give us money. Right. So how many times are you going to do that before you give up? Right. We all have lives. We all have kids. We all have things we're doing. So to spend an hour a day to go on these sites and look for people and see if you're a match,

if you're looking for the same thing, it's just a big giant pain in the app. So we started posting on Craigslist for local people to possibly meet as well. And that's when I realized how overrun a lot of it is with fake people. Yeah, my joke about my podcast is always like when I first started my show and I wanted to call an advice show. I never sort of knew it was going to or I didn't decide it was going to be about like people in their secret lives and what these people are doing sexually. But I was just frugal and I didn't think my show was going to be any good and I just and I like, and I like talking to people and giving them advice. So I just like was like where could I post an ad for free? And I went on Craigslist and I was like, oh, the one free place is the personal section.

So that's where I put it. And then it was like fucking striking. gold. I've got all these like really interesting people want to be my show and that's how it work, but that is the place that you go that they're not going to hit you up for oh, now you want to meet with this person pay us some money and it's a much quicker

sort of more direct way to do things. Yet the problem is like you're saying, you just have to weed through so much of the bullshit or the garbage, you know? Right. The stuff that's not true. I put an ad on Craigs of looking for some, you know, looking for another couple.

And I've seen and heard and experienced a lot over the years from this. And there was this one couple, they were a little bit younger, and I corresponded with him for about two weeks. And, you know, he explained that they were new, and they were a little bit our pretensive, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Very attractive, back and forth, back and forth, back and forth. Finally, I said, listen, you either need to give us a call or set up, you know, a time that we can meet. I said, you know, not to be rude, but I don't want to waste any more time. and he said, I have to be honest with you. He said, my girlfriend has no idea I've been talking to you. Oh, right.

No idea at all. Yeah. Mm-hmm. And I said, you know, what the fuck? And he said, well, can I ask you a question? He said, would you be willing to meet us out at a bar and pretend that it's a chance meeting? Mm-hmm. I get it.

Yeah. I see what he was doing. And I basically kind of at that point. that's when I decided to do some sort of advice thing I was blown away that somebody would put someone that they love in that sort of situation

I couldn't fathom me or my girl my partner and I were both appalled mostly because if that were to happen and we did hit it off we all fuck now we're all laying in bed together and I say to her oh, by the way, your boyfriend set this all up. Right.

Well, no, the whole point would be that you wouldn't, you wouldn't snitch on him. You'd have to keep your mouth shut. How can I have a genuine relationship with somebody I've never met? On complete false pretenses. Yeah, but I think, like, listen, I think this is the problem with, like, society and people still sort of not being open to things like this, that this is the stuff that has to happen.

That was probably a guy who wished that he probably, because you touched on this early on, like you said, these are the things that I grew up with. My parents were super open-minded. I mean, you were like beyond your time. Like, you were like ahead of the times, you know. You were not the, you're not the normal person, right? So, you know, regular people, listen, you have to feel for somebody like that, right?

Because he has your same desires. He's looking to do the same stuff. Maybe he wasn't raised in your kind of household. He didn't have those tools, you know, that you got or whatever it was that made you exactly who you were and brave enough to sort of be who you were and be open about it and fall into it so open and honestly at such a young age. Most people, that's not the case, you know. So this guy is hoping to live your lifestyle, but he has a girl probably that he maybe can't be that open with because of, you know, he just doesn't know if she'd get upset, but he knows that maybe if she

has a couple drinks, she might be open to it. So he tries to set it up that way, hoping that that will be the way to, you know, intro himself and his girl into the lifestyle. I completely understand him why he's doing it. Right. I completely, but part of me thinks about all the things that could really go wrong. Mm-hmm. Because he doesn't know me or my partner from Adam. Right, but that you could say that if he was doing, if him and his girl were coming

with both of them knowing. I mean, so a lot of things would go wrong if both of them aren't further. The one thing that could go wrong is that if you turned around afterwards, like you said and said, hey, your guy set this all up, you know, maybe he'd tell her that. I don't know. That would be the, I think, the worst case scenario. But I just, I get why you wouldn't have been into it because you don't live in that world. You never had to.

And you were lucky enough, you know, to have all the experience. You know, let's say that we meet. Let's just say we meet, right, in that aspect. And then three years down the road, you find out that I, that we did that. And we've become good friends. Mm-hmm. Oh, that my guy did that. I would totally understand.

I would, I would kind of understand. Because I don't think that that's total, like, I don't know, I kind of understand it. It's a little bit of, like, it's like human nature, you know, and maybe with like, it, like I said, if, like, most likely the girl wouldn't understand because she wasn't understanding enough for him to be honest about it to begin with, you know? So that's the, that's the problem. You know, so I think in that situation, you'd hope that that girl would never find out because maybe she hold it against them. But I think if I was their friend and I was that girl's friend and she came to me and said, oh, can you believe? And I'd be like, well, did you do it? Yeah, did you have a good time?

Yeah. Did it all work out? Yeah. And are you into it now? Yeah. So maybe like he did you a fucking favor. Like I don't think, I wouldn't think it's that big of a deal. That's just me.

Gotcha. You know what I mean? You know, it was a funny aspect as well or another kind of realm of this is when we first starting hosting events. I vetted people through the internet. Yeah. And at the beginning, you know, I did not require people to phone verify. Yeah. And both aspects of a couple coming to a party, and I had both the male and the female part of the couple bring their suspective partner to an event without them knowing.

And I can tell you that when I'm at the front door greeting people, and a couple walks through the door and one of them realizes where they are and that they didn't know where they were going it's almost immediately recognizable on their face oh of course but that guy that was setting it up with you was not asking for that situation he wanted it to be more of like

because maybe he talked to his girl and was like hey babe like would you ever like be into like if we were at a bar like maybe when she was drunk like if we got hit on and she would say like yeah Like I would, but maybe she, she would, you know, and he felt like maybe if it was set up, she wouldn't go into it like totally clearheaded. But, you know, like, but they talked to it. So I think what he was doing was a little bit different.

I think, yeah, if somebody's bringing them to a swing or party and they're not, I mean, that's fucked up. That is blatantly like, I mean, that's just like throwing somebody into the water, you know. That guy in that situation, I think was a different story. But we don't have to harp on it because it's like doesn't really matter, right? But I do understand it. I personally think, like I said, you have to feel. And I think it's great that you are kind of like going out there now and like putting that out there to help people. Because you have to know, right, that like I said, especially when you started and all the things that you've done and how you have.

Because you told me you don't care to use your real name. You don't care to use your real voice because like you're not like none of this is like secret to anyone. Like you're very open about everything. And I think that you're very lucky and you're not the typical. person. A lot of people have to do this kind of stuff behind closed doors or they can't talk about it, either with their family members or other people or with their prospective partners. But yet they have the desire. So, like, you are very lucky that you've been able to be as honest and fulfill the stuff, like your fantasies that you've had since day one. But I think that not a lot of people are in

the same shoes. So you definitely are somebody that can really have. And so, you definitely have. And help and guide people. You know, you are that, that person, you know, you were the right person to put together the parties, to vet people to, you know, because you are, you are more on the top. You know what I mean? You are more of a leader than, you know, somebody else coming up the long lengths, but you can really help people with your experience. But you have to know you're different and you have to feel for those people that maybe, you know, that, that are doing these things in a weird way, you know, maybe not so honestly. It's really interesting to me.

Now that I started answering questions, when I first put the ad out, I got an overwhelming response almost immediately, and I was kind of blown away. Not to touch on the whole Craiglisting, but they keep taking down my ad. Oh, they do that to me all the time. Yeah, people flag it.

It's like ridiculous, yeah. So a lot of, at the beginning, a lot of the ads that I got were guys asking advice on how to convince their girlfriend or wife to be into this lifestyle. I had to actually put a disclaimer at the bottom that said, you know, this is for singles or couples that are both willing participants into knowing about this lifestyle. This ad is not to convince people. and I still I still get ads and the first line of the email is I'm not trying to convince my wife or girlfriend

but Yeah because I think convinces a very Convince is like a word That I think you could mean I think it means something very specific And I think a lot of these situations Are probably not Wouldn't fall under that category

It's not like their girl is 100% against it maybe she could maybe be interested. But I have those people on my show all the time because men are, you know, and I think that, and when I have people on that are, I just taped an episode the other day with a guy who was very, I think I just aired it. It was very successful at swinging with his partner. And I always, when I have people like that on my show, I'm always like, can you explain, like, how you went about, like the real specifics, the conversations and everything of how

you got your girl to be on board. Because I think that's the biggest problem for a lot of. down out there. Yeah. Right, right, right. But I do think that they need help. Not convincing, I think that's the bad, the wrong word, but just

making them feel comfortable to be open to having that kind of experience. It is very difficult, I think, yeah, absolutely. Well, most of the time, the guys that are genuine with me, in

saying, I'm not trying to convince, the common thread is that their wife or girlfriend wants it to happen spontaneously. I hear this all the time. Yeah. My girlfriend wants it to happen spontaneously. Right, that's probably why that guy wanted to set it up spontaneously. Well, that's not spontaneously, Kathy.

I know what he wanted her to think it because if you really think about it, okay, between me and you, it's like, you know, I can have like a guy brain like we're two men talking right now. Like the girl says that and that's what she needs to say to make herself feel okay about. it because maybe in her mind, if it wasn't spontaneous, it would mean something else, right? If she wasn't drunk, it would mean something else. And maybe that's what she needs to just have her first experience, you know? And that's the guy just like to do whatever it is to make her feel comfortable for her to have that first experience. And then, you know.

I agree with you. Yeah. I agree with you. But that gentleman should say to his wife or girlfriend, I know you want to happen spontaneously. Are you okay with me setting it up spontaneously? Right. And what happens if she says no? then that shouldn't happen

that should be a general respect between the couple right but he's still going to try because you know like you know the guys are really horny for this and if their girl gives them even the slightest of thinking that they would I mean think about it the guy

think about it from the guy's standpoint I mean if she said spontaneously and that's the only way I mean he's going to try to figure out how to make that fucking happen because if this is exactly and that's where I think the disconnect is there's a lot of people out there that would would probably do something

alternatives if the situation was right. Right, if they trusted the other person, if they knew that they were being respected, if they felt safe and they felt listened to all those things. Absolutely. And a lot of guys, guys don't understand that. Yeah. They don't.

I had a guy on my show once. His girl was finally said okay to having a threesome, and he said, I talk about this guy all the time goes, it's so fucking funny to me. And his girlfriend's one rule was like, whatever you do, you're not allowed to fuck her in the ass. Like, that's just it. There's no anal sex with her.

And he's like, I cannot wait to fuck the other girl in the ass. I was like, are you fucking kidding? Like, you finally met a girl who's cool enough. And you are going to take that and just like shit on that opportunity. Like, are you got to be kidding me? And that's like, that's where the guys are just so dumb. You know what I mean? It's just like, you're just, you're going to ruin that whole situation.

like handing you something on a silver platter and you're going to fuck with it for what reason you know and I think this like I said sometimes the guys are just so stupid but you can't help those people too I think well it's I can't

I can't explain to a guy that it takes a balance of many different things to have a successful relationship in an alternative lifestyle right yeah you're not a therapist you'd be like really yeah exactly

And you have to be, yeah, and I've always said this to friends that I've talked to just randomly about my show. And I just like, I'm like, the people that are the most successful people at swingers. And I'm talking mostly about the guys because I think people think like, I don't know why are they just have this idea about the guys. I said most of the guys that have successful relationships with women long term who have very open relationships and it's all cool on the up and up. They are very monogamous by nature, the men that I talk to. The women are the one that are driving it. It wasn't like they had to talk them into it, you know. And these are the, and I just find that it's a certain kind.

They're just like very normal. People, very, they have very good communication. They have very healthy relationship with one another. And it's like the opposite of what I think some people would think was going on in a relationship where they're, you know, open and fucking other people, you know. Right. That's the one that I have it long term. Yeah. Right.

ask us if we have rules. What are our rules? And I usually explain that there are agreements, not rules, because agreements can be changed. Rules can be changed, too, but rules can be broken. Agreements, things can happen where you agree to do something together. And then in the midst of it, you realize that it's not something that you enjoy or you don't want to do again. And in the next day, you can't hold it again.

the other person. Right. You have to come to the realization that you, you know, you tried something and, you know, something, honey, it wasn't for me and I don't want to do it again. And that's the end of it. We've had several things like that where, you know, the only way to really experience things new is to do it with an open mind and not everything is cool. You're going to experience things that are not cool and that you probably may not want

to do again. It's interesting to me how difficult some people, are not able to grasp that aspect. Yeah, totally. And I feel like when you get like the guys who are like the total players that just want to fuck everything that walks, you know, you're going to get a guy like that guy I had on my show that was like, I can't wait to fuck that girl in the ass, even though his girl said no. And I think that's the other point that I always tell my friends, like most of the time,

these guys that are doing it successfully, they're not that, they don't have that player mentality. They're not the guy, even though they're having open relationships and they're doing this kind of like really sort of open stuff sexually. they're not the kind of men who are like treating women like sex objects or even see women that way. They're men who see women as their equals. They're much, it's like a specific breed of guy who I think is like, like I said, the opposite of what people would think. And that's like when it works.

You know, those are the men that I found to be, you know, when I get them on. And all the other ones that are trying it, it's not successful and it's a nightmare. And I get really good episodes from those people too. but they just don't have that. They're on the scale. Like, I'm always like, you know, some people are just more evolved, you know. Some men are, like, I just feel like those men are just a little bit closer to the, you know, the ape. A little less evolved.

Well, I've been answering, I've been placing ads. Oh, I'll actually jump back quick. I placed an ad in my local town. You know, I just on a whim, I was looking for what we look for one day. So I wonder what would happen if I placed an ad that just said, you know, thinking of swinging, question mark. And then in the ad it says, you know, if you have questions. And I posted it in less than an hour I had about 40 responses. Half of those were spam or bots or whatever were.

But I got a good 15 solid questions from people. And from that point on, I started to kind of just place ads in different areas of the states. and I started getting questioned that I had to sit on for a couple of days. One specifically was this young man. He was 25 years old, and he sent me a good long email, first thanking me for being there to somebody to talk to. He had been with his girlfriend since high school. They were the only partner that the two of them have ever had. He was 25.

He had extremely strong bisexual tendencies and had approached his girl, his fiancée, they were getting married, approached his fiancé and kind of brosce the subject of possibly bringing in someone else in the relationship for just, you know, for pleasure. And she was dead against it. and he was was really not knowing what to do. And I kind of, you know, this was over a couple of weeks of his corresponding, and I basically talked to him into actually ending the relationship, actually calling off the marriage. Right.

I was 25, right? Yeah, 25, and, you know, I said, you know, if you marry this girl, these feelings are not going to go away. You're going to find yourself in the same spot married three years from now. You know, I answered a lot of questions for him. This wasn't that simple. You know, this was over a good two, two, two, three week. A good 25 to 30 email back and forth.

I was really vested. Right. But at the end of the day, I think one of the second to last email was, you know, I called it off. I feel a huge weightlessed off my shoulders. I want to thank you so much. And, you know, he's touched me a couple other times. but, but, um, it's had several different emails like this that I think, um,

are a big help to people because there's just nowhere for people to get good, solid information to their questions. Yeah, totally. I mean, like I said, that's why I do my show and I get so many people, especially men, I feel like,

you know, because I'm getting people from Craigslist, right? And so 95% and my listeners are always sending me emails like, what are you going to have a woman, you know, and I get them every now and then, but it's a lot of it as guys. And I just think that there are,

And, you know, when I go through ads on Craigslist looking for people, I mean, you just see so many men on there looking for advice. And people will be like, why are they on Craigslist? Like, because guys don't talk to each other the way women do. You know, it's just a whole different ballgame for guys. And you have a lot of these guys out there, like this 25-year-old that you talk to. And I get these people on my show, and they're 45 or 50, and they've been living a double life. And they're fucking guys behind their wife's backs. You know how many people I've had on my show doing that?

I mean, you wouldn't believe the double lives of people are living. And I don't, you know, and I think it's great that you were able to get that guy to be like more honest about himself because he's super young, you know, and he could go the rest of his life being more true to who he is and have a more fulfilling life as opposed to sort of, you know, cutting himself in half, you know, and living a double life and not really having real intimacy because he's like, you know, someplace else half the time. you know what I mean? But yeah, people need people to talk to about that stuff. Because like I said before, like not everybody, you were the lucky one and not the norm. And you have to know that to have been able to sort of live out and do everything that you've done and all your desires, you know, in the way that you have. Most people men and women aren't able to.

Yet they still have those desires, you know. So like I said, you are. should start a podcast or write a book or something, you know, because you could really be that person that really helps people. I just think, you know, be a little bit more sympathetic or open to sort of questioning those people that say, not that they want to do it with you, but that say, how do I convince? Like, you know, if you ask them a little bit more, maybe convince isn't the right word and maybe it's a different situation, you know, and maybe you could help those people too. Because I find that when I talk to people, the more I talk to them, sometimes I find out what

they're saying and what the real situation is very different, you know? So, uh... The disclaimer seems to kind of weed the people are there really are looking to just convince that disclaimer. I've had people that kind of, you know, the ones that do open up with that and say, you know, this is a situation that, you know, we've had some sort of slight, you know, scenario. And, and again, she seems to just want it to happen, you know, organically or spontaneously.

How can I kind of, you know, do this? that. And usually I kind of point people towards meet and greets because it's not something that's on premise. But shortly after placing the ads, I actually look to see if thinking of swinging.com was available and actually started a site that's free and will always be free to answer people's questions. And there's a big portion of some of people's letters and a glossary and my background. So you started this. This is something that you. What is it good say that website again? It's www.

It's thinkingofswinging.com. Oh, okay, great. And how long have you been doing that for? The site has been up for about six months. And basically, like I said, it's a free platform. It's basically just advice. And then what I do is I post people's, the questions that I get in my response. And then also just, you know, tips for newbies, things that they should know,

things that they shouldn't, you know, things that you shouldn't do or shouldn't do just etiquette and, and then again, terms, glossary, you know, good, good, listen, I'm going to be sending you a lot of people your way because I'm going to tell you, like, I get a lot of people on my show that probably could use that kind of advice, right? And, you know, eventually, if you really want to help the people, it's so great that you did the website because it's a lot easier, you know, the one guy you went back and forth and you had all those emails, you know, and that's a very time consuming, right? And you have your own life. But this way, you could help a lot of people, right? Because they could just go to the website and see the stuff that you've said to other people.

So I think that that's really great. Yeah, I think it's more anonymous, I think. I just, I'll go to, and it's funny. I listened to a podcast recently. I'm not going to say the name, but the way they kind of structured it as far as lifestylers was a very skewed look as to almost giving people, how do I say it? Like they were outsiders. Right.

Mm-hmm. As opposed to just people living their lives and alternative aspects of life. It's like going, I almost equated to bowling or playing pool. Right. I tell people that I meet and I say, you know, I think you guys are really cool. I'm kind of attracted to you, but I'm not going to have sex with you if it's just going through the motions. Right. We're not here to go through the motions.

I have amazing sex with my partner. And unless it's going to be amazing with you, I'd just. rather just go bowling with you. Right. And people kind of usually get that and say, you know, you seem like cool people, but unless we really hit it off, unless we really have an attraction, unless it's going to be awesome, why bother? Right.

Mm-hmm. Totally. Yeah. And the aspect of this other podcast was, wasn't that. It was almost like, you know, behind the, in the alleyway, and it happens really quickly, and it happens because they're just looking to fill a six. Yeah. You can listen.

You could, you know, I'm talking to you from my house, you know, like, I mean, you could do, anyone could do a podcast. The great thing about it is you could tape it anywhere. You could tape it anytime. You know, you post it later. You know, besides your website, if you were ever, if you ever wanted to do that too and start your own, you could. Yeah.

I think the blog, as far as giving people advice and kind of just really touching on certain aspect of things. We've had, I say we, my partner, and then also some other stories, all the stories that are on our website are actually, you know, experiences that we've had. Yeah. So we have exotic stories as well and things. Oh, great. Because I feel like, I mean, typically my podcast are about an hour long. We're already past an hour. And so we're going to wrap it up. But I feel like, you know, I didn't even get, we didn't even really get to touch upon those kind of stories because, like, in a way, I think you are that. guy that wants to help people and give the information that you have out. So if people want to hear more

about like your personal life and the stuff that you and your girl really do, they can go to your website, right? And that's thinking of swinging.com. They could also, if they need advice from you, right? And they could, they could, okay, so there's a place there that they could, still call into my show too, because I want those people on my show. I like to talk to them. But if they want advice, don't use the word convince, right? Correct. Right. But they're looking for a way to sort of get into that and they have a willing partner.

They could write you. I think people need to understand that this lifestyle is an enhancement to their already amazing relationship and sex life. Right. This isn't going to fix your broken marriage or your broken relationship. Right. Definitely not. I tell people that. And wouldn't you say that people have to have probably a really strong foundation within their relationship to be able to go out and

be intimate sexually with other people, you know, successfully, because like if you're not sort of emotionally stable to get, you know, like, I mean, it's not going to work. No. This will make or break your marriage or relationship immediately. Right. Depending. So, yeah. So you want those people that are at the good place and are serious and ready, willing,

and able, but need the tools and the references and all that kind of stuff to sort of take that first step. And you could really help them. and some guidelines, some guidelines to say that, you know, if this isn't for us, it's okay. Right. You know, if we jump in the pool and the pool is not cool, we need to get out or just go on with our lives. It's not a be-all and all, you know?

Yeah, take it from you. You guys went to the holiday in and saw a bunch of 50-year-olds in, like, I don't know, I think I would have felt so bad because I would have felt like it was so insult. But I don't know what I would have done at 25, but, like, you know, you just feel so bad walking out, because blatantly, I mean, you're not, you're saying without saying, like, out loud, like, oh my God, you guys are so fucking old and gross. Like, I cannot stomach filling around with you. Walk out, you know what I mean?

Like, I might have just stayed there, but like, you, you have. You know what's really funny? Yeah. Not until I was confident in who I am, did I not have any issue with offending someone else? Right. You know what happens when you're offended? Yeah.

Nothing. Right. Nothing happens. Mm-hmm. So as long as I'm. as long as I'm courteous, as long as I'm up and as long as I'm not hurtful, unfortunately, if you're offended, I'm sorry, but I'm going to go on with my life, you should do your thing.

Right, but listen, I feel confident about myself and I feel bad about offending people, not because I can't handle being offended. I can fucking handle it. I have a very thick skin, but because I have empathy, like, I don't know, I feel somebody else's thing, and maybe because I didn't have that when I was younger, I don't know, but, like, I just, you know, people don't like to be offended. It's just human nature. You know, people don't want to be told at 50 that you're, you're busting.

in you're old and I'm not interested in you because you know you know something I deal with this all the time where people will approach so if I am we're on lifestyle sites as well and I'll send somebody an email and I'll say hey guys you guys look at track you look like you're fun would you like to talk or get together for a drink or see if we drive or have chemistry and I won't get a response and I think that's rude if somebody contacts me and we're not interested I will send an email back it says I don't think we're a match at this time. Good luck in your search.

All the best. Right. Well, you're a super together person. You're putting together websites. You were planning parties and events while keeping a day job. Like, I mean, you know, most people are not that way. They're fucking flaky. I mean, we all know that.

And so people don't get back to you across the... It's annoying. I get it because I'm more like you. I'm like together and I could get back to me. I can't stand up, but that's like the majority of people. I always make jokes of people and say, like, if you want to be better than everybody else, just like be on time. Do what you say.

And be honest. Be considerate. Yeah. And like having some will power and people will be like blown away like you're superhuman, you know, because it's like most people aren't those things. And those are very easy things to be. I personally think so. But most people aren't. But yeah, we all get offended for different things.

But like I said, like let's, I got to wrap it up because I have to meet my trainer at 330 and I have to get dressed really fast. But I might like, you know, maybe you'll come on eventually at some point if I ever need an expert or you'll come back on again and talk a little bit more about stuff. I'll definitely be promoting your website because like I said I get people that probably could use your advice or advice that you've given other people on your website. I'll be giving it out to people that call

because I get people that you'll probably be talking to all the time. So thanks for calling in and explaining all your stuff and maybe I'll have you come on as an expert in the future if I have a very specific situation that I think you can help. Awesome. All right? Is that cool? All right.

Yeah, absolutely. Okay, good. We'll exchange that. So thanks for calling in, Jim. Jim, right? That's your real name. It is. All right. All right.

Thanks, Jim. Talk soon. We'll be in touch. Bye. Bye-bye. Okay, I just want to tell you before you go that my book, it's called Strictly Anonymous Confession, Secret Sex Lives of Total Strangers, is now available not only in paperback and ebook, but you can pre-order the audio book.

It's still not going to be out until August 25th, but you can pre-order it. book is basically 17 different stories taken from my show. I kind of picked one story from each category that I talk about on my show. Like there's a hot wife story. There's a cuck queen story. There's a cuck story. There's a gang-bang girl story. Like I said, 17 stories. And they're all told in the third person. And they're all true. I took the interview and rewrote it in the third person. And I wouldn't really call it like a total erotica book. Think like Penthouse letters. It's more direct. It's not so over the top like erotica. I don't really like that kind of vibe, right? But these are true stories. 17 of them. They're really short chapters, easy read.

You could read one or two and then skip around. You could read the whole book. It's available in eback format, paperback format, and finally, the audiobook is available coming out August 25th. But you could pre-order it now. And if you buy my book in any format or pre-order it, I will throw in a complimentary link to my Discord. My Discord does not disappoint, okay? There's no way you get into my Discord any other way than getting the link from me, okay? I give it to people who buy my book. There's tons of people in there. Everybody shares content with each other, and that's what you get to do there. You can post your own pictures and videos. There's tons of channels. We have lots of contests where you can win a lot of money. It's a super fun place to be.

It's a total strictly anonymous community and you will love it. I will be giving anyone who buys my book access to my Discord. It's private, like I said. All you got to do is email me a screenshot of your purchase, whether you did the audiobook, the ebook or the paperback. Send it to me at Strictly Anonymous Podcast at gmail.com. That's strictly anonymous podcast at gmail.com. And I will send you the link to Discord.

So anyway, thanks so much for tuning in.