Strictly Anonymous Confessions - 261 -Where are They Now: Marco Got Divorced and is Now Officially Gay

Episode Date: December 10, 2018

Marco (episode #198) calls in to discuss what has gone down since he came out as gay to his wife. Since he last called in he got divorced, he's been hooking up with guys and he's trying to figure out who is now that he's out of the "closet." How did his wife handle him leaving her? How has he been navigating the whole dating guys scene? What kind of guys is he into? And what does he like to "do" with them that he's surprised he likes? Tune in to find out plus hear all about how/where his wife outed him, how he's been dealing with his homophobic feelings, why he's been suicidal at times, what went down with his first relationship with a guy and a whole lot more. **To see anonymous pics of my female guests + hear anonymous confessions + get all the episodes early and AD FREE, join my Patreon! It's only $7 a month and you can cancel at any time. You can sign up here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.patreon.com/StrictlyAnonymousPodcast⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and when you join, I'll throw in a complimentary link to my private Discord! MY BOOK IS NOW OUT FOR PRE-ORDER!!!! Strictly Anonymous Confessions: Secret Sex Lives of Total Strangers. A bunch of short, super sexy, TRUE stories. GET YOUR COPY NOW: https://amzn.to/4i7hBCd To Join SDC and get a FREE Trial! click here: https://www.sdc.com/?ref=37712 or go to SDC.com and use my code 37712 Want to be on the show? Email me at [e-mail] or go to http://www.strictlyanonymouspodcast.com and click on "Be on the Show" Have something quick you want to confesss while remaining anonymous? Call the CONFESSIONS hotline at 347-420-3579. You can call 24/7. All voices are changed. Sponsors: https://bluechew.com Get your first month FREE! https://butterwellness.com/ Try the Butter Wellness perineum massager and use code STRICTLY for 20% off your entire order Follow me! Instagram https://www.instagram.com/strictanonymous/ Twitter https://twitter.com/strictanonymous?lang=en Website http://www.strictlyanonymouspodcast.com/ Everything else https://linktr.ee/Strictlyanonymouspodcast Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Here is your host, Kathy. Hey, welcome to the Strictly Anonymous podcast with Kathy. If you want to follow the Strictly Anonymous podcast on Instagram or Twitter, follow the show at Strict Anonymous. This is a call and advice show where I give total strangers my unprofessional advice. I listen to people talk about their naughty lives or secret lives. They're dirty lives. If you want to be on a show, send an email at Strictly Anonymous Podcast.

gmail.com or go to my website strictly anonymous podcast.com and click on B on the show. I'm starting to reach out to the guests that I've had on the past year or so looking for the updates. It's time for the where are they now episodes and

sometimes I have so much or someone has so much to update that we do a whole episode with them and that's what happened with this guy, Marco. Marco called it in 2017 actually his episodes for episode is 198.

Christian Marco just realized he's gay. He was married, realized he was gay and came out to his wife. And since we spoke in September, a lot of shit went down. This was a guy that back when we spoke originally, he had never been with a guy, but he had just told his wife that he was gay and he was going to, they were trying to figure out what they were going to do there. So he calls in to talk about what they actually did, where they're at now, how she sort of

reacted to things and what she did. It's fucked up. You're going to listen. And what's been going on with him with guys since he came out? Because when we spoke, I think I said this already, that he had never been with a guy. Now he's been with a lot of guys.

And we talk about the stuff that he's into, the stuff that he didn't realize he's being into that he's into, what turns him on, what turns him off, how he feels about the gay community, as well as, like, a lot of lot of other kind of difficult things that came up for him when he sort of came to terms or came out fully as a gay person and what he's been struggling. And it's really interesting to hear

that kind of stuff because I think that's like the real stuff that maybe some people could relate to that people don't really realize could be happening to somebody that finally in midlife. I mean, this guy's like 30-something years old and he's just finally being who he's always wanting to be and it's not like perfect you know he's struggling um even though he did the right thing and i think it's you know interesting to see that how that has played out for him and what he's going through because that's like real life shit you know what i mean so anyway i'm going to be right back on with marco so you called in in september of 2017 right but all of your updates and the stuff that happened in your marriage went down

like probably like six months after we spoke right and when we spoke i'll give the quick backstory you were like i mean the title of your episode was what like married marco christian married marco just found out he's gay or something like that right yeah yeah you had always uh thought you were by but while you were married and when your wife was like pregnant with your third kid uh you realized you came to the realization that you were like gay you had never at that point had any sort of sexual relationships with guys, right? But you decided to tell your girl. I remember the most fucked up thing of that whole episode was, A, the timing of telling her.

And B, the way you told her. Like, first of all, you told her when she's like three months pregnant. Second of all, didn't you tell her while you were like flying on a plane and like about to take off? And like, oh, by the way, this and like they texted it to her. And then you were like not a veil until you got to 30,000 feet. Isn't that what happened? Yeah, at least I don't have to worry about being cold because the flames were are coming to get me.

That was so selfish and terrible. But anyway, you threw that fucking bomb out there for your poor. I would have had a heart attack if I couldn't like. So bad. Yeah, like when you finally reached altitude and you could use yourself, weren't there like 80,000 messages? Yes. So bad.

Guys are so passive. Guys really don't like confrontation with women that they will do all kinds of crazy shit when they need to like have a talk. You know what I mean? It's pretty bad. It's very passive, aggressive. But it's a guy thing, I think, because I've had that kind of experience. So anyway, so when I emailed you to see if you had an update, you were like, yeah, I do.

Shit went down. So, like, you had told your wife, right? She kind of flipped out. But last we spoke, right, you were still together. She was having another baby. Like I said, you hadn't been with guys yet. You were just coming to the conclusion that you were gay. Nobody was really told except you told your brother and she told a couple friends.

And you were like talking through it in therapy, but you guys were staying together because you had this baby coming. So now why don't you pick it up from there? Yeah. So baby arrived Thanksgiving evening of 2017. Oh, okay. Shortly after we spoke. Exactly. So shortly after we spoke and then, you know, just kind of overall, you know, we welcome the baby into this world, right?

And then, you know, probably around. Let me ask you this. Like after, because we spoke right after you told her, right? That is correct, like a couple weeks after I took. Right. So, you know, by the time, fast forward when your baby was born, it was like a couple months. Now, did you guys just go into like denial mode or was there still issues between you guys? Like, was she still freaked out or did she like sweep it under the table because the baby came?

He was incredible, to be quite honest. I mean, she and I, you know, definitely talked very transparently. Like, this wasn't like I was hiding this. Like, once I kind of came to that conclusion, I didn't. immediately older. And again, I'm not trying to get out of the, you know, the flames of hell as to the painting the picture that we talked about. But, you know, it is still fucked up, but you have not fucked up situation, really making sure that, you know, the communication was as clear as possible. So we actually did go to, um, went to a conference, you know, just not

necessarily try to pray that, pray the gay way per se, but really take a sober look and, you know, kind of identify like, okay, now that this is out there, um, is this, something that, you know, we can just kind of accept and then move on as a, you know, mixed orientation marriage. And, you know, I kind of just, you know, over time, kind of determined that that's just not possible, nor is that fair to her. Right. Now, how did she feel about it? Devastated. No, but I mean, no, no, but I mean, did she want to stay with you just because of the kids and stuff like that? And she was like, oh, I'll just accept that you're gay. Like, I mean, Or did she want part two?

No, she wanted out. She wanted out. Okay. And I think kind of in reflection and knowing now, I mean, progress she's made, you know, now that we are, you know, separated, you know, she's made a lot of progress and just, you know, emotionally she's much more, not just even, like, stable. She's almost flourishing already.

And it's just kind of this amazing thing, like almost like you took a spear out of her side. You know, she really kind of bounce back. I think I said that in your guys' podcast, like eventually, you guys were. we're going to be way happier, you know. Yeah, and I know it's obvious, duh, but like when you're in the forest, it can be very dark. Right, and it doesn't happen.

Right. And what I always say is it's not like the fucking movies. Like you guys just did it. That didn't happen overnight. You know what I mean? It took time. Like there was, right? And lots of conversation and lots of communication, you know.

But I think you guys came out on the other side in a positive way or, you know, so just not even, because it's not that long since that happened, right? we're looking at it maybe about a year and a half, right, a year and some change, and that she's doing good and you are, but you did say something about her, like, outing you on Facebook. Like, what the fuck was that all about? That doesn't seem very, you know, positive. I don't know. Or did you ask her to?

Yeah. How did that happen? Yeah. Great question. So, you know, to kind of fill people in, I know one of the things I was using on the first podcast was the timeline of everything. So, again, August, you know, kind of 17. I came out, September, I was on the podcast. We have the baby, you know, late fall.

You know, early spring, you know, we kind of determined, so like right around March time, the baby was kind of stable. Yeah. You know, just started having some communication issues, just around kind of the hope of, you know, kind of the future of our marriage. And so with that, you know, we kind of went ahead and, you know, went for the physical separation as well as the concurrent divorce.

So the state that I live, there's a 90-day probationary period. And so you file and then there's a 90-day probationary. So that takes us out to about June 2018 and June 2018, five month around the country, right? Yeah. So, you know, come July, kind of long story short, you know, she kind of proclaimed that great spouses of the world need to also be heard. And a Pride month is over

Great spouse And be aware And so she Those stuff Indirectly I am not straight That was her story So You know

It impacted me in a bunch of different ways I literally woke up The movie out there called Love Simon Yeah I saw that Uh huh Yeah I mean character kind of literally wakes up And has about 50 texts on his phone

Yeah What the heck And so, yeah, like, it was the first time that I ever had 570 texts on my phone. And you didn't know. She didn't give you the warning that she was doing it? No, actually, I picked her up from the airport and helped her, you know, kind of download the kids.

She had come back from trip. Oh, that plane ride, just like you did it to her on the fucking plane. Planes and you guys are very weird. That was probably a trigger for her. She remembered when you texted her on the plane. All right, so she gets off a plane and then just, She doesn't tell you anything that's going on in her little mind that she's going to fucking out you on Facebook. Yeah, I mean, I think also I'm culpable, like, I think in arrears, you know, looking back.

I mean, I think one of the things that I did was, and it was actually by the guidance of my therapist at the time, which don't give her information to be as a weapon against you. And so she, at the time, we were physically separated, right? So she was starting to ask pretty direct questions around, you know, what am I doing, you know, and really what she wanted to say was like, who am I sleeping with? What am I doing? Am I cheating? You know, I wouldn't even call it cheating, but just like, you know, am I sleeping around, fooling, you know, fooling around and things like that? And, you know, I'm just sitting here trying to pick up the pieces of like the basic administration of a physical separation with, you know, three kids. I mean, so, no, I wasn't around doing all this stuff. So it was just kind of ironic. You know, she's asking all this question. I pretty much ambiguous in my communication. and it kind of just threw her over the edge to... Well, why didn't you tell her flat out? I'm not with fucking anybody. I did. But she didn't.

Right. Believe me, she thought I was up on, you know, the gay part of the city that we live in and just fucking dudes all the time. I mean, you would tell us. Absolutely not.

No, because to me, I was definitely like, you know, getting back to kind of that Christian style. Like, I have some very deep, you know,

kind of in my walk that I think are very important to me. Even just from a sexual performance standpoint, I wanted to finish. well so that I could actually have the faced able to, you know, explore not just in my own time, but also just to have a conscious clear to do that. And so, you know, I am, you know, I had that outing and we ended up, of course, was finalized a couple days later, actually. But yeah, it was just a freaking trip. And it's actually impacted me in a bunch of ways professionally. It's impacted me actually today. I actually have my boss in town, you know, performing work for me

on behalf of a friend of mine that needed work from the business that I'm in. And they kind of disqualified me from participating into the work situation because, you know, my ex-wife, you know, kind of the friend of us, you know, participating in this. And just, I know I'm being confusing as fuck. But like, you know, it's impacting my professional life directly. Because they found out. And they didn't want like that drama or something. something because yeah and then also to my company was just kind of like hey like that comes first

better for us to have an independent you know person in there as opposed to you because you know of just the situation so they said we'd rather have somebody else because of what's going on with you yes okay so people from your work yeah because on facebook you know that's what's fucked up about facebook like you know like because i have people i i have family members on there and then i have work people that i used to work with that i work with now you know like and then you have your friends and it's like a mixed bag, right? So it can be very brutal if somebody sort of put something on there

for everyone to see because it's like, you know, what does your work need to know about your fucking, you know, romantic life? It's nobody's fucking business, really. Yeah, and that's the problem is it tilted in, you know, kind of a relational-based form of business. And with that, it tip the scales, right? Like, I probably wouldn't have not at work

because no need to. I believe in those. appropriate separation, but it was indirectly impacting, right? Because it was eventually going to get people that I worked with. And so it was just one of those things where it kind of forced my hand to, you know, my cards. So I did at the appropriate time. I did that a couple weeks ago, actually. And, you know, everything's been positive.

I think her outing me in my family context was actually a huge win for me. And again, selfishly, because everybody in my family was like, what the fuck? like she is off her rocker. They were on your side. They rallied around me. Instantaneously rallied around me. And then also, too, it gave me kind of some empowerment to, you know, have a choice to participate as a, you know, a co-parent with her in which I have. And so I'm pleased to say that, you know, while although we aren't best friends,

and I don't think we will ever be, quote, best friends again ever. I mean, things like that, like from the Amper, point. Just I know there are better people out there for me, a friendship standpoint that, you know, will be that way. But from a business co-parenting and, you know, doing highly functioning parenting, there's nobody better on the planet to, I'm stoked to, you know, do that around side of her. So that's, I guess, what I'm trying to articulate is I now have that space of protection that I'm actually able to be a better, you know, co-parent with her. And I think she has seen that already. Like, I'm much more participatory.

I can be who I am and all this stuff. And, you know, one of the other updates is that she's already moved on, like, pretty quick. And so, you know, she's seeing a person, you know, that has kids of his own. And so, you know, like, he knows what she wants. You know, she's a type A personality. And I know that was one of the things too. Did she ever regret outing you on Facebook?

Like, did she ever come to you, like, after she did it even a couple of months? months later and said like you know what that really wasn't cool like you know or no no interesting you thought that actually like the next day she's like thank you so much for supporting my side of this right she need well was it like a long post sort of talking about how she feels about i don't really understand that's so it's like yeah it was it was talking about like how she felt like she didn't have a voice situation because i came out to her put her in a compromising position and so her post was really coming out and saying that

you know what fuck that I do have a voice right but couldn't she have the voice with people like that she's talking to and her family like it's so weird that people feel like I think it's bullshit in a sense that people think to go to places like that and to have a voice quote unquote

I just don't buy that I mean you can have a voice you know in other ways but to sort of out somebody's personal business on a public forum. I don't know what kind of power you get out of that. I think that's bullshit. I think it's really intriguing to be quite honest. And I think that eventually she will see.

Yeah. You know, it really is because I kind of agree with you. Like I understand it to a point, but then there's a real fucked up nature behind it. And I think it kind of reveals, you know, kind of one of the underlying fundamental issues we were having. Anyway, even if you weren't gay, right? Absolutely.

And, you know, she would kind of take out her anger on me. And again, I hate to, I'm not a victim in this. Like, you know, I would never say that. But I think one of the things that is important is that she kind of took her opportunity and just went way too far. She went way over the line. Yeah, that's, it's like, yeah, I think it's like a little revengeful because, you know, and I think maybe one day she will look back on that and realize that was like the wrong thing.

to do. She wasn't feeling right. She wanted, she had a lot of stuff. She wasn't feeling comfortable with all this information she had. So, you know, to go out and put it on Facebook to like sort of make herself feel better is very wrong. Like I get that she didn't feel right about it and she didn't feel like she had a voice and all those things. But, you know, there's other ways to let go and deal with those feelings and work through them, you know. And I think you get some kind of instant gratification of putting it out there. But I feel like there's like a revenge in that. And it's not, I don't think in the long run, it's really the right thing to do or is it really helpful, you know, but so maybe she'll come around one day in the future and say, sorry, like, that was wrong. So knee-jerk, Kathy, coming from my standpoint, like, you got to understand, like, I literally was being benevolent and helping her, you know, come off a plane after a long trip and, you know, getting the whole family settled in at her place, you know, under her house, under her rules, you know, because we were physically.

in different houses. Yeah. You know, it was just really a whiplash at falling morning where I literally had, my phone literally had blown up. And what the heck's going on? And I went on to Facebook.

And just, I mean, I shit a brick. I mean, it was just absolutely incredible. That's crazy. That was definitely like a huge moment of this year. I mean, looking back, I mean, and again, I think, you know, I'm not writing it off.

Like, I'm actually working therapy to, you know, allow my anger to fester with that. and that she or press it appropriately. And so that's also been a story of this year is that I'm really hard on

you know, kind of some therapy and professional therapy that's finally starting to get traction. In addition, and the problem is I am giving you a lot of data that correlate

I got to be careful, but I had a significant weight loss as well. 90 pounds. Oh, wow. Been a year as well. I think it was mindset and things like that and kind of feel centered for the first time. Well, I have to say that a lot of times, you know, listen, there's a lot of reasons why somebody could be carrying extra weight, right?

There's medical reasons, genetic reasons, you know. But sometimes people are carrying a lot of weight and can't get rid of it because it's like a way of keeping people away from them, you know? So maybe sort of letting go of that big secret and really coming into your own helped you shed. that you know because you didn't need that sort of like maybe that weight was like a wall up for you know between everybody and who you really were you know so maybe that really helped to like shed the pounds right yeah absolutely i think that's dialed you know directly in and so you know so that facebook outing happens and the lie the divorce finalize it and you know that's really when things got kind of real, right? Because

you know, near the end of the alternative finalizing, I started chatting. Were you like on Tinder or like where were you chatting? Yeah, so I got in if I'd come out to my friend obviously post the Facebook outing.

In a lot of ways, you know, that was actually a good thing because I got an immediate network of just people that were like, hey, you know, let's think up now that you have maybe just a little bit more space to be able to you that. For a mutual friend, I met this guy who was very helpful to me just kind of in coming out and things like that.

But we also kind of went right into kind of a semi-dating relationship. That was incredible. So wait, did you like hook? Was he like the first guy you hooked up with? Oh, so the guy that I ended up hooking up with was. Oh, wait. That guy you had a romantic relationship with. Did you guys get to any basis?

Oh my God, yeah. So you did fool around with that guy. But you fooled around with someone before him is what you're saying. I did, yeah. And that actually, I kind of jumped in the dark there. My first experience with the guy, when we go to that, which was I got to this guy over lunch,

local to where I live, and he was confident I knew. Yeah. A and got a partner and all that stuff so I felt really safe. I came out to him over lunch. Oh, that's incredible. incredible, tell me more.

And, you know, kind of long story short, I start getting text from that night. Like, hey, do you mind? I come over and, you know, all this stuff. And next thing, you know, we're naked in bed and letting things. How was that for you? I mean, this is your whole life. I mean, how old are you at this point? It's like in your first, having your first experience.

Yep. My mid-30s. Yeah, that's amazing. Was it like everything you could have ever imagined and then something? I think it was both because it was like. like it was both good and bad. I mean, kind of like, wow, like the feel of a man compared to a feel of a woman was definitely a better feeling. No doubt about it.

But also, too, it's like your first sexual experience. I mean, your brain is running at, you know, thousand miles a second. So your sexual performance actually, you know, decreases. So like keeping it up and things like that is, you know, I was actually running into challenges. But so wait. So what did you do with him? Did you do everything? I didn't do everything

but I think we ended up having overall both him to you and you to him and then mutual masturbation okay interesting so you don't know at that point whether you're a top or a bottom yeah no it wasn't until the relationship with that guy that I met through the friend

you know with that this guy one of the first things I noticed was after we went out for drinks and went back to my hotel room the guy you actually liked right not the hookup Yes, that's correct. The guy actually liked, like, had like an eight and a half inch dick. I was like, oh my God.

Oh, like a micro wean? Oh, eight and a half. Eight and a half inch. Was that a good thing? I would think it's... I don't know. At first I was just kind of like, holy shit. I'm like, I'm definitely, you know, I'm not like, I'm not that big.

So I would say I'm... Don't tell me it was long and skinny or was it thick, too? It was long and thick. Okay. Oh, my God. Well, and so then you're just kind of like, okay, well, I'm definitely not. out of bottom at this point because I'm not shoving that thing in. Right. Not the first time.

So I was just kind of like, so you know, we end up hooking up and again, it was kind of mostly oral and no masturbation. Yeah, but as the relationship progressed, one of the things that I unlocked was that wow, like, I just when you're starting to grind with

a man and things get hot and things get a little wet, it's like, I just let that thing slip in and yeah, I took it and it was just fucking hot. It was amazing. Oh, you know what's so bad about that because he was like your first big dick in your ass. It's like you're going to be a size guy all your life. You know what I mean?

Like, don't you think. You know, I don't know. And so I think like I'm definitely, I would say probably 75% bottom at this point just to my performance naturally. And I definitely have talked before and it's totally fine. How long did you stay in a relationship with that guy? I stayed in that relationship for about four or five months And I think it was kind of Going back

Did it freak you out when you started to get really close to him Or like how to it? No it actually freaked me out when I'm in a I have a support group around me And a member of that support group You know, said hey you know you probably shouldn't be in a relationship Knowing that you're having serious you know issues outside of your relationship personally, because I was.

I mean, as all this stuff's happening, again, right? Like you justify like that because literally, again, just textualized this is that I had never hooked up with a man. Yeah. Put all my cards, you know, or all my chips in the center of the poker table and said, hey, I'm willing to link a marriage and three kids for this. So why not try it out? Right. I'm going to go validate whether or not that's right or not.

Right. but what was going on personally that was fucked up. Yeah. So I just was having some, it's like an personalized homophilia, which is a concept. Interesting. No, but like,

it's really a context of just like, not that I'm afraid of gay or it's afraid of this, it's more of just like, you have this life that's kind of like behind closed doors and kind of pick and choose aspects that turn you on and that's,

that's what you think gay is like, but you literally get thrusted. That whole part of you gets thrust out. vulnerable and transparent and then it's like start seeing all these aspects of your life that you were like wow I did not expect that to you know be the case like now that I'm out it's like I don't necessarily I with so I don't necessarily I with so things a community of like you know hooking up with that guy my first hookup right which was a partner I really struggle with actually I can't act or even hook up with a guy that is in a relationship right I just it's a it's a it's a it's a You're more traditional maybe. I'm way more traditional. But at the same time, too, I'm not necessarily all about like, you know, marriage and a lot of those contexts either. All I'm saying is that, you know, I definitely, that, you know, you are in a relationship.

Like, why would you allow somebody else to, and in my opinion rob some of the abuses that should be shared between two people with a committed relationship? And that is not for me. But I'm sure there's other gay men out there that feel the same way. There are. And actually, I think the key is like for me to just accept that word acceptance is a whole thing because it's just I want to control everything. But accepting the fact that that exists really reduces my chance to find a mate because it just seems so prevalent within the community. And I think that was a false accusation of me on the community. I think that, you know, after listening to your podcast and actually talking with a lot of people, I think, you know, you see and you see these kind of projections on the gay community as all. whole that are not necessarily independent of say the heterosexual community.

Well, there's a lot of men out there that, you know, hook up with women or just complete assholes to women. And it's just I had never been exposed to that. So it's the fact that I was privileged, you know, to this point. And now it's like I have men pursuing me and just starting to see how fucked up and men are as a whole and men are pigs. Yeah. Like it is like, you know, that's talking about like the internalized homophobia comes to the fact that like, you know, you have this kind perverted life that's behind closed doors, you come onto a podcast, you hit it. Then your life gets put on blast, and then you're just like there's all these other things, like the fact that you find out that men are pigs, you know, directly to your face.

And you also miss the fact that the community, and that's not true. You know, so you have all these. You're just experienced what women experience and, you know. Exactly. And those are things that I'm still uncovering, you know, day by day and has been very helpful. So things like I've gone to my first drag show. I'm trying to my first gay bar, even though I don't necessarily want to hang out there. But, you know, but I've also seen good role model.

I've seen gay fathers that have, you know, kids. Yeah. Very normal. Actually, I spent a holiday with some of them, you know, the holidays. I used to have those role models, and that was very soothing to my soul. So there's just, there's been a lot of heat happened, both good and bad ways. But I was definitely suicidal for very much of 2018 kind of out of highs and lows. of like, you know, and those types of things.

And that really is what, getting back to your original question. I know you get picked off of Kathy. Oh, pneumonia my brain is. No, I can follow you. No, it is just kind of like, you know, it is just kind of one of those things where, you know, I think getting back to why I had to back out of the relationship, I got to take care of myself and stabilize myself.

And I'm back. And so it's not really going to be until, you know, end of around Q1 of 29. The guy wants to talk to me. I really hurt him. you know, pulling out. Out of nowhere, right. Yeah, and I did, but he also knew that I was getting serious significant help, right?

And so it was kind of fucked up on this guy's part today. Well, I'm not going to talk to you a little bit like, fuck you. Is you a therapist Christian? My therapist is not Christian. Right, okay. At this point. I've really gone agnostic in that area, not that I'm not Christian anymore. Like I'm just saying within therapy, I need very practical therapy to just keep me alive.

and you know I'm way beyond that point now where I really need help to like be alive day to day. But that whole suicide thing back and forth, do you feel like you're past that or do you think that comes to go? Right. I'm past it, but it's shocking how you get back into ideas. I do want to highlight the fact that I had a very good plan throughout that. So if any of your owners are going through this, I'll take two seconds to state that there are some amazing resources out there. Like what? all heard of them.

Well, there's the, first of all, there's the National Super Thud Hotline. There's the Trevor Project for Youth under the age of 18, which is kind of fucked up because if you're above the age of 18, you know, Trevor Project will take your call. They'll take your call, but they're going to pass you off under the hotline, which there's not really specialized people, you know, for them. And so, you know, if anybody out there is listening to, there is an opportunity for, you know, people above the age of 18 that are struggling with kind of internalized your feelings, you know absolutely

there are people out there and including myself Kathy if somebody I'm more happy to be forced to anybody I'm right so if anyone that's listening is what you're saying

that is going through something they don't even have to be gay right and coming out like is anyone that's thinking of suicide maybe or is it more than both right but I would say yeah I would say if you're you know dealing with suicide the resources first but I mean I had like a list

of about 10 to 12 people that I would call when I get on the hotline I then outreach and then I think a lot of people may not know this, but any emergency that's local to you will actually admit you or take you in and allow you to choose to sit either in the waiting room while you wait for a therapist to come and arrive or they can actually

the back. And so, you know, I think that's really interesting. It's kind of a last-age effort. Right. And so you had, that's what you did sometimes? I never, no, I never did that because getting through a list of around 10 people on a phone call is pretty exhausting. Right.

And by about six or seven, your brain's like, okay, I'm stable. Right. It's kind of a hack more than it is. You know, nobody was giving me any keen or sage advice more than it was just like getting me through that moment. Yeah, just talking it out. Uh-huh. Yeah. Just talking to somebody.

I think that's very important. For sure. And so I think I just wanted to make sure that we took a couple minutes to let, you know, people know that while the sex was fucking hot and wild and I'm totally in alignment now with kind of where I need to be. Yeah. And, you know, to answer the underlying question of, was it worth it? I still think that's a quote to be determined, but I do like the prospects. I am hopeful for the future. And in fact, like I've been on the apps, things like that.

And actually, in fact, I just had a, you know, hook up this morning, you know, before I dropped off the kids. So, I mean, just things are wild and crazy and stuff like that that. that I'm not being totally promiscuous, like I'm being very calculated in it. But it's wild. How long ago did you dump that guy? I dumped that guy about a month and a half to. Right. And it broke my heart because it was my first romance, and he always will be.

And I, my brain, Kathy did some, like, seriously romantic things that I'd never, ever believed or thought I would do, like, when I was kind of, in and around where he worked. I was like, I'm going to go stick in because he did not want to talk to me. I was like, I don't care. I'm just going to go stick in under his windshield and just tell him how much I love him and things like that. And of course, like in the movie, he's going to think that I'm amazing. And then I immediately as I was having this, I called actually a good friend of mine. And he's like, you do that. He's going to think you're crazier and you're never going to be able to talk to him again. And so I just thought that was advice to have good friends. And that actually has been the hardest part of coming out is actually having gay friends because naturally gay friends turn into hookups

so actually having platonic friendships. Those are the most elusive people to find on Scruff or Grindr or Tinder or any of the apps are friends that can put platonic. And so that would be my highest recommendation to anybody coming out that kind of wants to live a more ethical, you know, homosexual life from a gay side.

Really try to chase after friendships, which can be difficult. But if you set the appropriate boundaries and expectations up front, there are people out there. And you found some? Yeah, I would say that it's about a hit rate. I'm a nerd for the numbers. You know, you get hit up on the apps for about 100 times.

My profile is pretty conservative. You'll get, you know, two to three people. And then the problem is, you know, you'll build a friend at base of, say, 10. You know, you're probably going to naturally hook up with about five of those. So there's five of the people who get shoved out of the door. So right now I'm probably friends. Right, but you have to understand that. No one meets, even women and straight men,

no one meets friends on dating apps. Like, those are dating apps. You know what I mean? You're going to maybe meet friends if you go to gay bars, you know what I mean? Or gay parties or gay crews. You know, like that's where you might meet friends because people are there for a different reason.

But if you're on an app and you're looking there, of course there's a 2% chance of finding a friend because nobody's on there to find a friend. That's like it's called a dating app. Like that's just like, It's like not the place to look for friends. And you can't make the judgment that it's hard to find gay friends when you're trying to find them on an app where they're thinking that you want to hook up with them if you swipe left

or whatever the fuck it is. You know what I mean? I mean, come on. I mean, I think that's healthy for much, Kathy. I really do. Let me ask you this. Like, you said a friend told you to break up with that guy or somebody counseling you. Like, did you want to break up with him?

No, I didn't. It's a regret. It's a regret. Yeah, why would you listen to something? buddy. What does it matter if you have like sometimes it's like great to have a relationship in the middle of shit going down. I mean, you know what I mean? Like yeah, maybe it's not right, but like you really liked him. He really liked you. Why did that person want you to bring up with them? Again, because I was going through and again, I just don't want to kind of an anonymous thing. I don't want to kind of compensate, but I

pretty significant therapy and the nature of that group therapy a lot of times. they have not necessarily like authoritative but they actually are able to kind of give them space to be able to speak into the recovery as well yeah so as in kind of an addiction group therapy yeah yeah they say articulate that hey you should take a full year yeah yeah but you don't have to listen you don't have to listen I didn't know though until I made the choice then the choice was the wrong choice but that's the way I would probably paint that is have you ever told that guy I have you have I have but he won't allow me to talk to him. Yeah, well, because he's, you know, he's pissed. I mean, because you just pulled the rug from under him. Ain't that the truth. And things were fine between you and him? Yep.

But also, he needs to recognize that even the way that I had painted the breakup was the fact that, you know, as part of that, you know, therapy group that I need to do this. And so, like, I circled up with him to try to face to face to be able to follow through and he never provided me that opportunity, which is really fun. up. What do you mean? To break up with him in person? Well, I want to be able to circle up with him and give him context for why I broke up with him.

Well, how did you break up with him? Please tell me. On the phone. Okay, so you called him up and he said, listen, I just want to tell you that my group. No, he was, he was, I was telling him what, I was telling him what this person was telling me. And he's like, well, you need to make a choice. Yeah. And he got like really pissed off at me.

And he had been getting pissed off at me. And so I just said, you know what? Fuck it. Like, fuck you. I'm done. Like for cleanliness, if you're going to be this way, I'm going to understand. You know, there's nothing more vulnerable than opening up your heart to somebody else, right? And so when you are told by that someone else that they have like a team of people sort of like in that person's ear kind of telling them that they should probably not be in this relationship, that's not a real good place to be with somebody.

You know what I mean? That would drive someone fucking crazy. He's just waiting for the axe to fall, right? Because, you know, so he just probably was like, fuck you. And you're like, fuck you, you know. And he's probably like, I don't want to deal. Like, I get why he doesn't want to talk to you right now. He's probably pest, you know, so I would give it some time.

Well, and that's what we're doing. And I've been yielding to that. And, you know, I think that's the appropriate move. I'm able now to work on myself throughout the process and get more security. you know things like that and so you know maybe you'll be in the catch up in 2019 no I think that's definitely one of the things that we'll have to talk about and see you know what it ends up happening because I will I have the date on my calendar already to him know when it's okay because he told you he gave you a date he did yeah he said call me at this time

he said call me after this time or let's check in after right go work on yourself go fix some shit and then give me a call he wasn't like writing me off forever but also at this time it was way longer than I won't well because he's smart he knows it doesn't happen overnight two weeks isn't going to make a change but he's giving you some time you know you got a that's not so bad yeah but my dick doesn't want that much time off right and what about your heart I mean do you miss him like in other ways oh I missed him so much I mean come on like first romance they talk about people in your group let me tell you something like you know Remember just to have your own brain, you know, groups and addiction stuff is so fucking great that stuff like that is around and it helps to support you.

I'm like someone who quit drinking and I did a gay for a certain time. But like you can't like, I don't know. I don't believe in like sort of buying into everything one thing tells you. You know, I mean if you happen to meet a really great guy at that time like whatever, just like go with that. And you did and then you ended it and that's what it is. But like I'd be curious to see what happens when you circle back. And listen, he's not the end all be all. If it's not meant to be, you'll meet somebody else, you know.

But it is good that you're, you know, sort of dating and you're hooking up with guys. I mean, I remember saying to you on the podcast that I felt so sorry for your wife because I felt like she was the one that was going to go through the trouble with the scenario more. I felt like you were going to be like finally living your life, totally come into your own and having a great time, right? And she was going to be like sort of coming to grips with it, right? But it almost seems like you were the one that had the worst situation after coming out. And I think that that makes sense, right, because of all the things that you said you went through.

And she seems to have like sort of, I mean, after her Facebook posts, like she's, you know, doing great. But you will eventually be doing great too. I commend her for that. I mean, I think that's a great read. Kathy, you're reading the situation. Well, it's what you said. Particularly. And so I think that, you know, I think that's a great representation.

And, you know, I think it's easier now for me, you know, mentally, too, to see her kind of moving on. Even if this, you know, person isn't the right one for her long term, like, even move on has given me a little bit of the permission of like. I was going to say. Yeah, but it takes a weight off your back. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

And so that, that has been. something that I am a good guy underneath the, even though at the beginning of the call, I do agree with you that the flames of hell are coming from. Oh, whatever. Don't worry about that. But no, and I do think, because you did say in the beginning that you find her really great to sort of partner up and co-parent together, but you don't see her as a friend ever. I mean, you don't really know.

I think that there's stuff that went down and you guys are still too close to everything to really know whether, you know, 10 years from now, you might wind up to be really great friends. you know, you're still finding yourself, you know. You have, and you have a lot of internal stuff that you're, like, working through and figuring out, you know, and she is doing the same in her sort of way. So because you're co-parenting, you're not leaving each other's life anytime soon. So, you know, in 10 years you might be great friends, you know.

You don't know. But, you know, I think it's great that year. I mean, you said in your email, too, like bipolar. or did you say what was there, BPD? Like, what did you, are you labeling yourself? Like, is that what you've come to, like, figure out that you have? Yeah, like, they're alluding to the fact that I have a borderline personality disorder. Really?

And so, yeah. Just because I exemplify, you know, a matriets that a borderline personality disorder person deals with, which is, like, not having a solid sense of self. Uh-huh. And so I'm working on, you know, building up effective ways to find a self-identity. And the way that you do that is through a thing called dialectical behavioral therapy. And DBT. Yeah, DBT, yeah.

And DBT is one of the things in there's some great resources for, you know, the gay community. Again, I don't ascribe to any of these as being kind of, you know, the gay world. but there is a book that I think everybody should at least open. It's called The Velvet Rage by Alan Downs. And he's actually a trained DBT therapist. The Velvet Rage? Yeah, the Velvet Rage. Okay.

And kind of long story short, you know, he, at the beginning he talks about, like, you know, hey, great comment. People have kind of been twisting their lives and supporting their lives. They've a great world so long that, coming to the acceptance, they do. Oh, they're new. Of course. That's kind of what I fell in to the fact that I used substance,

soap, myself, a very young age, as well as buried part of me. So now that it's out there, you know, literally like, of course, you get all the titillating fetishy things that you imagine about being with everything else that comes with living that lifestyle now. And you don't really have a sense of self. You have to establish that. Like one good example of that, not to turn this into a psychology experiment. No, but I like that stuff.

I like psychology. So like, for example, like one of the things I struggle towards one of my men. And I would always flush my anger because at the end of the day, I love that. Right. So I could never allow a whole emotion to coexist. Yeah, I see that a lot in people. Like they can't, like, be mad at something because they feel like that would be everything. Like, you could love your parents but fucking hate what they did.

or, you know, and I find that then what happens, people project that onto other people, you know? It's like if you could just admit that you hate your fucking mom, you know, for what she did because she was a cunt at that time, you know, but you could still, then you could, once you process that, you will love her and understand her. She's a human being, too, with her own stuff, and maybe you'll get to the point where you understand why she was that way, you know,

but you have to go through that thing of feeling that sort of hatred, and I think a lot of people feel like that is so taboo to hate or have any kind of negative feeling with the parent and it's a really bad thing because it does I feel like get projected all over the place when it just needs to be and so instead of hating my parent yeah

fucking hating myself and trying to kill myself a substance right right and somebody's going to pick up that tab yeah somebody's going to pick up that you know it it's like charging a credit card every time you do that yeah if you don't allow that feeling to exist of hatred and anger

which is justified your body he's telling me something. Yeah. And you're just like, I'm just going to pay it, you know, because I love my parents. Right, but you could love that over and over. Yeah, uh-huh.

You could, and I see it a lot, especially in men, I don't know, why, but, or just people in general, I think it is.

I never had a problem hating my parents and being mad at them for the things that they did because it was so blatantly bad, but I feel like in families where it was like undercurrent stuff, you know,

and just like, that it's a lot, harder for that child to sort of see things clearly but yet it's showing up in their life in other ways you know and you're like why can't and I'm always like why can't just understand like you fucking hate like you know it's like

they did a terrible thing and because I really believe that after you go there and you get really mad and you like say I hate them whatever like what is beyond that is acceptance and then you go back and the love is there you know what I mean because then you know because I got to that place with my parents as well because eventually

you just your parents are human beings too with their own backstory and shit that happened to them and their own fucking shit, you know. So it's just like, but you, but you can't like not go through it the right way. You have to go through the negative feelings you have and just be honest with it. But people are just so afraid of that

because they think that that will be forever and it's not forever. There are no fucking shortcuts. If you allow the loved, and it's kind of a fucked up love. Like the unconditional love side, the win in a situation that's completely, Like so you have two emotions, love and hatred.

They both should exist in silos. And you flush the hatred for that unconditional love. I'm telling you that's a very toxic situation. And I did that to myself. And you know what they say. And they say that depression, like hardcore depression is just really like a lot of anger pushed down, you know, and push down really, really hard. You know, so it's like if you release that and do all that, all of that depression

and that suicidal stuff, like that's where it's all coming from. I mean, you have a lot of stuff going on at once. I think ultimately, like, it's amazing what you're going through and a great time of your life because, but, you know, I think that it's, you couldn't, though, have gotten to the place where you're going to be, which I think eventually is going to be, like, a wonderful place, without going through this part. This is, like, the way it happens.

It's just reality. It's, like, not the movies that you just come out, and it's like, great. you know what I love about this podcast in fact that you can see the shit I'm willing to air the shit out of a goal of helping others because in a lot of ways it was any hose that germy here and then it was like

it ultimately isn't even about that anymore and in fact like I'm at a point now where like all the psychological things that we just talked about together like I was on and out and I was talking with the guy getting emotionally whipped up guys very intellectual

very into things like that where I feel like I'm like like, oh you like I could like this guy, right? I really like this guy. I really want to meet him for coffee or beer. Let's go, you know, this and the other. And then like literally I looked at the profile again and I

saw the words of Harry. And I was like, holy fuck. And like so it hit me like a ton of bricks, but again like because I've been kind of doing some of the, and it's just intro level in this therapy. I'm just starting it. Like I'm already seeing this where it's like, okay, great, I have this feeling of hugely let down in the moment. But I just clearly communicated in.

It's like, hey, man, I got to pull back a little bit. I just have an ethic, you know, this at the other. And he was like totally one respectful. He respected the situation, too. You know, he still wants to meet up for, you know, coffee, but also like we did it in a way where it's not going to be like late in the year. Yeah. And, you know, he was providing me so space reciprocally. And, you know, worst case situation, you know, like he could potentially be somebody that.

since he is an intellectual and has like awesome professional, he might know somebody that would be a good hookup for me or a good connection. But that could be, and that could be a friend, quote unquote. And so instead of just writing this person off and say, fuck you, you know, I'm out of here or like blowing my load on him. proverbially, it was just saying, you know what, like I'm this prude or I'm this righteous person. I took a breath and just said, you know what, I just need to be clear and crisp and say,

hey, man, this just isn't going to work for me. I need to take a couple steps back, but let's still, you know, try to find something more. Because you like other parts of him. And I think that that's really good because maybe that'll help with that sort of judgey part of you that sort of makes these like blank. Like you see things in that kind of promiscuous, what is the fucking word? Like those promiscuous sort of guys, like you see it a certain way.

If you just like always ax them out and never, you know, got to know them, like you could just live in judgment, you know, whereas maybe if you get to know him and you talk to him, like maybe you could understand it more. Not to say that you will ever change and be that way, right? That's not what it's about, but it's about maybe just opening up to understanding those kind of people. And then you'll be more apt to be able to just, you know, sort of know who those people are, know what your capability is with them. And, you know, and find the ones you really look looking for. And I think there's nothing greater than I think people, the worst thing to do is send out mixed messages like to the universe.

Like, oh, I don't want a guy that's like married. But the next day you're fucking blowing a guy that's married. You know what I mean? The more you say no to what you don't want and you have that line, I think that's fucking great because you know exactly what you want. And I think when you put that out there, you will eventually find a clean-cut guy that happens to be gay that is very monogamous too like you are.

That totally exists. Okay, I know guys like that. And it's good that, like I said, you're not sending out the mixed messages. But I think that you need more friends in the gay community. That will be really helpful for you. And it's great that you're still meeting up with the guy. if you're blowing him two days from now you know let me know hey you know that is the other thing

guys how to blow other guys because right so it's like it's fucking hot it's fucking hot like sorry ladies yes the ladies that have really like you know probably done a lot of course amazing

um there's nothing like a guy and what about making out with a guy you like that fucking hot and actually the like they're you know maybe let's do a quick You're the 2018. I'm like a fan of like quick things like yeah

I want to give you some quick shots of just things that I was like misconceptions that I thought like I didn't think I was gonna like guys with hair yeah love it oh interesting okay uh oh I thought I would want like a fit muscular guy and actually I'm kind of weirdly falling for not chubs but like just I'm okay with a little bit more of a huskier guy because the hold somebody like that is like very hot in a lot of ways I like that I like a thicker guy

I'm not necessarily into bears per se because that's usually like hairy and big but like I'm not saying like I'm more open to that for sure than you would have thought yeah making out with a guy that either has a mustache or a beard like a mustache too kind of a turn off but like a beard

a turn off and I talked about that and I would say that I was also kind of turned off originally thinking like you know I like I like seeing kind of a trimmed person down you know downstairs you know the growing area, but like, I'm, I'm comfortable if they're a little bit growing down there more than I thought I would be, man, like, you know, with women, it was like, I always like, for sure.

Right, right, but when it comes to, like, guys, you want them to be like a guy. It is. It's kind of weird. It's like, and like being accepting of that, that's what I guess I'm trying to articulate is you live in this kind of fantasy life as a repressed gay and you think you know everything because you mastered your perversion. Yeah. But then you come out and you're forced to live it out in the world at the age of your 30s where you have kind of a highly functioning attitude. This is the weird fuck-up shit. And you're just like, well, I was wrong there.

I was wrong there. I was wrong there. I thought I was a topple. Wrong there. You know, it's just like... Yeah, that's great. That's interesting. Really interesting shit. And like the panty-ho's fetish in a lot of ways kind of fallen away.

Right. And so that would be like one of the pieces that I would articulate to people is like, I'm not saying a fetish is like the cause or correlation. Like, definitely people turn on to me. Like when I see a woman, shirt and tights. Like, fuck, dude, I want to go fuck her in like two seconds. But, like, overall, I still want to romance them for sure.

Have you had such a lot of women since? No. And I don't think, I don't want to, like, after the emotional Kathy that I did. Yeah. I think that's going to be a tough man to ever do. Right. Because just the amount of upfront negotiation as a nerd that I am,

I literally would talk this girl out of ever wanting to. Right. Right. But do you miss it? I mean, that's my last question. Yeah, for sure. There is a much, I'll just be like, you know, I do believe that the design of a man and a woman is much more natural. Right.

We're like you have natural lubrication, you know, the whole dick is much more natural. Like, there's all of this stuff that I'm just, this is. Like, it's like the perfect puzzle. Yes. And it's like, not that I'm trying to shove, you know, a round peg in a square hole, but. it really kind of is like where if you're going on a date and you really are and you know if I was to be in the relationship for example you know you do sure whatever like even just that whole concept is list before going out on a date like and then like having to

lube up like everything just takes so much can't really just in the moment fuck and it's like it's just super interesting and somebody like me that's so linear thinking it's like it is it does kind of impact my sexual kind of thoughtness. Like, and two, like, guys are just so much into, like, taking, like, substance. So, like, they'll do, like, you definitely tell one of dudes on Viagra because, like, they'll just stay hard for, like, the whole fucking time. And you're like, that is weird. Right.

But, and, like, then also, too, when they're on Viagra, there's a lot of times they won't be able to come. That's another discovery I had, which is, like, they're on Viagra, you know, that, or they'll get, like, a headache. Right. You know, when they're on it, they just kind of get out of the mood. And there's no fucking Wait, how many guys

Have you been with since you started Hunky Up with guys, do you think? Oh, we like 15. Okay, that's a lot. Is it? Well, no. I don't know. I don't like talking.

Well, because it's only been for like this year. Like in this year you've been 15. I don't think it's, you know, it's not like three. It's like 15. I don't think it's bad. I think it's great. Yeah. And like I'm a, I don't really bottom with guys.

It's more of just. Like, but I will tell you the other discovery, I hit these odd shots. Baramones are fucking for real. And so, you know, like when somebody was like telling me, like when, you know, I would even say my, you know, ex-wife, like, it was very close to me. Like, it was just like, it was revved up. And I never got that way around women. Right. With the right guy.

And I would say that it's not every guy. I would say that one in three guys, barramones start. Oh, my God. Like, it's just like Velcro. It's chemistry. Yeah. For sure. And that is something that I never felt.

With women? You can't watch. Yeah, with women. And you can't watch enough gay porn. You can't watch enough gay porn. Like, there's no pheromone-inducing virtual reality. Yeah. No, no.

That feeling. Because it's like a feeling, you physical feeling you get. It is fucking crazy. It's like electricity. That to me is the magic of like why I believe that, you know, I'm not going to preach any religious part of this, but I will say that in the creation of humanity, I'm willing to forego a little bit of the biological

of fucking women to be in alignment with my biological sense, pheromones, and chemistry. Because in my opinion, I value the chemistry and romance above, you know, fucking a hot woman in a short black skirt fucking hot. I'm going to fuck her. But like, you know, that for my health and for, you know, her health even,

like to be a better citizen of this globe, I need to do what's in alignment with what I am and being an accepted. That to me is really the three-minute pitch on why, you know, even talking through, you know, with you on this, I don't know, for the second time, I think that's been very helpful and therapeutic

for me to recognize that. Let me ask you this. Did you have that kind of electricity, chemistry thing with that guy? Oh my God. That's what I think allowed me to take an eight and a half inch dick. Right. Because you were just so horny for him. Because he was not.

And again, like I hoped, God, he doesn't ever listen to this. But like, you know, because he's not like the most in shape. Yeah. And, you know, it's not the most in shape person or, you know, his doesn't speak. Like one of the things I have the privilege of is when I have, I can hide behind him. And I am masculine. so I don't necessarily have flamboyant personality traits. I can.

Yeah, I would never. You don't talk like you're gay. You know what I mean? Yeah, but he does a little bit more than, I'm not saying it's unfortunate and stuff, but I still was just come on to him. You know, I still am in a lot of ways. And I always will be.

I mean, they talk about it in that book, how that first romance always stick with, like, completely fucking, you know. Don't count him out. You might get back with him. Who knows? Maybe that's an unfinished business. I do hope so.

I mean, because I think there's definitely potential that. Because I think it was premature for you guys to end it. I think you guys both ended it for the wrong reasons. And I hope when you go back to him soon, sooner than later that, you know, you guys maybe give it another go.

So you'll have to give me an update then too and let me know how it goes. But this is a great update. It's like really interesting to watch stories go along. for sure one topic that I think is important you know when you talked about like you shouldn't necessarily listen to like an alcoholic's anonymous sponsor 100 I would ascribe to that because professional therapist because again this was not all me like I had a

yeah yeah the professional therapist I just was starting with you dude you shouldn't have done that yeah but you should not have listened yeah because actually it was providing you good things well that you yeah yeah especially so that was not being a good Yeah, I don't, don't always, just always keep, like, listen, listen, I think it's great to have support groups. And like I said, I think of those kind of places are great for people, but you don't have to buy into everything to think that they're good or, you know, if something doesn't feel right that they're saying you don't have to follow them like a fucking sheep, you know what I mean? It's like, because everyone's life is different. You cannot make a rule and everyone has to follow it.

You know, there's always going to be outliers. There's always going to be different things. And that's okay. And so I'm glad that your therapist let you know that. And I think, you know, when you do meet up with him again and you talk with him, like, you let him know those things, you know, and let him know that you did the wrong thing and have that good conversation. Maybe you'll be back with him and you'll have to let me know. I will.

And thanks again to have this outlet. It's been very full therapeutic fun and, you know, for sure. It's great. Don't fucking kill yourself. You're better, right? Like you're better. I am better. Okay. Like, you know, I just always feel like life, like if you could look back five years from now,

like you will look at this time and really realize that it was such a pivotal, great time of your life that brought on really great things. So just if you're ever in the moment where you feel like sort of hopeless and things aren't going to change, I know that that's like a fucking crazy place to be and you almost can't think properly. But before you get to that really bad place, just remember that, you know, it'll pass. and things are going to be good and you're doing the right thing. And it's all good.

I couldn't agree more. And I hope that anybody that's listening to this, like, your feelings are validated. If you are to that point, and I don't even want to bring up the word again, but if your feelings are validated by me, I've been there. But there is a gap between ideation and action. Right. And make sure you have that gap. I was blessed to have a big gap between my ideation and action. Right.

If you know yourself and you have a lower gap or a lower moat between your ideation and action, please get help. Call me. Right. It doesn't matter. Just fucking get help. Right. This world is better with you. Right.

So anyone that's Googled this and saw, like, and listen to this because maybe you recently came out of the closet or you're young and you know your gay and you haven't yet, but you know. And you want to get in touch with Marco. Send me an email. It's strictly anonymous podcast at jubble.com. and I'll send it along to him. Is that cool? Awesome. Thank you.

Thanks so much for calling it. This was so interesting. It's going to be like its own podcast because we talk for so long, but it's a good update. Yeah, for sure. Thanks, Kathy. You appreciate it. Good luck with everything.

Bye. Bye. Bye, bye. Okay. I just want to tell you before you go that my book, it's called Strictly Anonymous Confession, Secret Sex Lives of Total Strangers, is now available not only in paperback and ebook,

but you can pre-order the audio. book. It's still not going to be out until August 25th, but you can pre-order it. The book is basically 17 different stories taken from my show. I kind of picked one story from each category that I talk about on my show. Like there's a hot wife story. There's a cuck queen story. There's a cuck story. There's a gang being girl story. Like I said, 17 stories. And they're all told in the third person and they're all true. I took the interview and rewrote it in the third person. And I said, person. And I wouldn't really call it like a total erotica book. Think like penthouse letters. It's more direct. It's not so over the top like erotica. I don't really like that kind of vibe, right? But these are

true stories. 17 of them. They're really short chapters, easy read. You could read, you know, one or two and then skip around. You could read the whole book. It's available in eback format, paperback format. And finally, the audiobook is available. coming out August 25th, but you could pre-order it now. And if you buy my book in any format or pre-order it, I will throw in a complimentary link to my Discord. My Discord does not disappoint. Okay, there's no way you get into my Discord any other way than getting the link from me. Okay, I give it to people who buy my book. There's tons of people in there. Everybody shares content with each other, and that's what you get to do there. You could post your own pictures and videos. There's tons of

channels. We have lots of contests where you can win a lot of money. It's a super fun place to be. It's a total strictly anonymous community and you will love it. I will be giving anyone who buys my book access to my Discord. It's private, like I said. All you got to do is email me a screenshot of your purchase, whether you did the audiobook, the ebook or the paperback. Sent it to me at strictly anonymous podcast at gmail.com. That's strictly anonymous podcast at gmail.com. and I will send you the link to Discord. So anyway, thanks so much for tuning in. This is the Strictly Anonymous podcast.