Strictly Anonymous Confessions - 460 - Sam Is Addicted to Porn

Episode Date: March 10, 2022

Sam is addicted to porn and he calls in to talk all about it. When did he realize he was addicted to porn? Why was he addicted to it? And, how did he stop?? Tune in for all the detials which include how he disciplined he had to be to keep his habit hidden, how he eventually started to watch gay porn even though he wasn't into it because he "needed more," how he used replacement therapy to ease off of porn, how FOP aka no masturbation doesn't work for him, how he masturbates now without porn and why it's not addicting, his vanilla sex life with his wife, how she only sees sex as a means to procreate, how she wanted a ton of kids and tricked him into have way too many, how he feels trapped but why he won't leave her and a whole lot more. **To see anonymous pics of my female guests + hear anonymous confessions + get all the episodes early and AD FREE, join my Patreon! It's only $7 a month and you can cancel at any time. You can sign up here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.patreon.com/StrictlyAnonymousPodcast⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and when you join, I'll throw in a complimentary link to my private Discord! MY BOOK IS NOW OUT FOR PRE-ORDER!!!! Strictly Anonymous Confessions: Secret Sex Lives of Total Strangers. A bunch of short, super sexy, TRUE stories. GET YOUR COPY NOW: https://amzn.to/4i7hBCd To Join SDC and get a FREE Trial! click here: https://www.sdc.com/?ref=37712 or go to SDC.com and use my code 37712 Want to be on the show? Email me at [e-mail] or go to http://www.strictlyanonymouspodcast.com and click on "Be on the Show" Have something quick you want to confesss while remaining anonymous? Call the CONFESSIONS hotline at 347-420-3579. You can call 24/7. All voices are changed. Sponsors: https://bluechew.com Get your first month FREE! https://butterwellness.com/ Try the Butter Wellness perineum massager and use code STRICTLY for 20% off your entire order Follow me! Instagram https://www.instagram.com/strictanonymous/ Twitter https://twitter.com/strictanonymous?lang=en Website http://www.strictlyanonymouspodcast.com/ Everything else https://linktr.ee/Strictlyanonymouspodcast Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome to the strictly anonymous podcast. Strictly anonymous podcast. Conversations with online strangers. We place ads online. The Craigslist is definitely like the gift that keeps on giving. Real people respond. You go to Santa Port or Thailand. You can't not do it.

The temptation is just too much. It's real problem. Your friend know that you're banging her or no. No, he has no idea. And anything goes. The motto of the show, let your freak flag fly. Probably the only good advice I'll ever give you is to rehire. your whips and chain. Here is your host, Kathy. Hey, welcome to the Strictly Anonymous podcast with Kathy.

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Send me an email, strictly anonymous podcast at gmail.com. Or go to my website, strictly anonymous podcast.com and click on, be on the show. And if you want to call in and leave a confession, you could do that. I have a confessionals line. Call 347, 4203579. That's 347, 4203579. That number will be in the description. Today I have on Sam.

Now, I always get a little excited when I am talking to someone that had a quote-unquote addiction because I had an addiction. I'm like 17, 18. I can't even count how many years, quote-unquote, sober I am at this point. I did quit drinking a long time ago. And it was like the greatest thing I ever did in my life. It changed me for the better like nothing else has changed me besides being a mom. But it, and so when I get people like this on my show, I do tend to talk a little bit more

than usual. So fuck off all you people that are going to say in the comment section, YouTube, like, stop interrupting or stop talking. What I try to tell people a lot of times on my show is I am not interviewing people. I don't have a list of questions written down or an agenda or something that I need to get out. I just get on the phone and I have a conversation with people and a conversation is two people talking, me being one of them. Okay. And when I'm talking, I try not to talk a lot or not to talk about myself a lot, but when I do have an addict on, I do talk a little bit more because

been there, done that. I like to give my little tidbits to, I always hope that when I have these kinds of episodes on, that people that have an addiction, might, you know, a light bulb might go off, you know, because of something that my guest said or that I said. So I do interject a little bit more in this. So like I said, keep your fucking opinions about me interrupting to yourself. All right. I'm warning you. This is my warning. But I love this episode because, you know, Sam is addicted to porn. He was addicted to porn. He's been able to get himself out of that. Why he was addicted to porn. He's in a bad marriage. It's a very very common problem, right? But, you know, when we get specific about, you know, what's going on in his marriage, it's pretty fascinating. You know, yeah, there's vanilla sexes thrown out there, which we could all relate to. But there's this whole other thing going on with kids and her wanting a lot of them

and how that plays out in their marriage and why they don't have sex anymore and why he got addicted to porn. That's all fascinating. We get a little bit more into that later in the conversation. so you want to make sure you stay tuned for that because it's interesting and unique his situation and also pretty hardcore and in the beginning we talk all about his addiction how he got addicted what did he do and I focused more on like how he kicked his habit

because I feel like that's always interesting I didn't now I realize now that I'm doing my intro that I didn't talk so much about like what he did on those phone sex lines and stuff but he got addicted to all kinds of porn and he got out of it. He talks about how he did, and it's all super interesting.

Now, I think porn addiction, whether it exists or not, is a very controversial topic. So listen to this, and maybe you'll think differently about it. Maybe you won't. I don't know, but, you know,

if you're on YouTube, comment there, I love getting in conversations. But like I said, keep your comments about me interrupting off. Okay, because I hate those. Anyway, I'm going to be right back on with Sam. Welcome to the Strictly Anonymous podcast.

How are you doing today? I'm doing pretty good. I appreciate you having me on. It's nice to meet you after listening to many of your podcasts before. Oh, cool. How did you find my show? With YouTube or just like on the podcast? Yeah, it was YouTube.

It was like, you know, when you search for things and some other things get suggested. There I was. You know, interested in sex stuff, obviously. So you were one of the things that popped up and then I joined your Patreon. Oh, awesome. That's what I love about YouTube. I really feel like maybe a lot of podcasts don't utilize it as a platform or think it's worthy. But it really is because I feel like there's a lot of people on YouTube that I find and mostly

all of my audience on YouTube. They would never have found me on a podcast app. That's where they look for things. So I think it's so great. I love YouTube because YouTube is a place where people could comment. So anyone listening, go comment there. So listen, Sam, you're dealing. is this. Like you emailed me that you've been married for a long time and you did have like a time in

your life. I'm thinking maybe you came out of it where you had like a porn addiction and I was like that's a part that stuck out to me in your email because I feel like porn addiction quote unquote is a little I think it's more common than people want to say it is. I do think some and it's very controversial because you know you have people on one side saying it doesn't even exist. That's made up. It's not a thing. And you know, you have other people on the other side saying it is. So why don't you tell me a little bit about your story and then we'll wrap about it? Because I do think that porn addiction is very common. I do believe that it, I think you can be addicted to anything. And I am an addict, okay? Addicts are one thing. And then whatever you use and you get

addicted to is meaningless. It doesn't matter. You could addicted to pick, you could get addicted to picking lint off of the floor and just do that all the time to get out. You're right. Right. So the addiction is always there. Whether you use porn, you use Jesus, you use alcohol, you use cocaine, you use worry. I think of being a hypochondriac is an addiction. It's an addiction to worry.

I have that, too. As an addict, I know. So I believe that porn addiction exists. So why don't you tell me your story, your history with it? Well, I think you got to go back to when I was young and started. and discovered that I think I was predisposed to addiction to pornography at a really young age. I mean, I was introduced to pornography probably at the typical age. I'm in my mid-40s.

Yeah. So, you know. What is the typical age that you think it is to be? Well, I think it would be like back in those days, it was a little bit older than probably these days with the internet. So I'm going to say magazines and stuff that we found at like my friends' dad had. you know, was probably about 13 or so. And then, and then actually like sneaking videos out or stuff like that was probably my

freshman year in high school, so about 14, 15. Yeah. So, and then, and so I just remember just being, now this is kind of hard to, every young boy will see sex or sees images and goes like, you know, bonkers. But it was, I think there was more to it. to me. But you can't really be addicted at that young age because you don't have access to it. You know, you can't just do it whenever you want to. So that started for me after I grew up, I got married. My marriage kind of was difficult to say the least. And then I started playing

around online. And then, you know, I was very limited because of, I didn't want my wife to find out. I had to be very careful. You know, I've heard about stories about wives going through their husband's phones and finding stuff. So where kind of all exploded for me was I decided to get a separate phone where I could just use it for stuff like that. I could, you know, if I've always enjoyed phone sex. So I would call phone sex lines and I would, you know, try to meet different chat lines and also pornography. So after I got that, it seems like all the shackles were just broken off and I could do whatever I wanted. There was no restriction. So I have a job where I have some flexibility in free time and it wasn't very long before.

I just was doing that hours a day. I'd go to work early. I'd stay late. I would sneak away at different times of the day. And, you know, I've listened to your podcast, and I think you've had some porn and sex addicts on just by listening to them, whether they do it or not. Yeah. And it's the same thing. It's the being really aroused by two people having sex, then that's not enough.

So then you have to go to places like orgies. And then one thing I read in my recovery that really stuck out to me is when you're addicted and you're always trying to up the ante, you start doing things you wouldn't normally do. So I'm straight. I'm a straight guy. I'm not even really what you call bi-curious. But in that process, I was watching gay porn or bisexual porn. And stuff like that. Yeah.

Because just to get the thrill, get the, get the, you know, it's no different than drugs or alcohol. Your body. You need more and more. You need more and more. It's progressed. They would say the word would be, I know I want to cut you off, sorry. It's progressive. They say, oh, it's a progressive disease.

And for sure it is. That's what happens. Yeah. Definitely. So, you know, I was. I was not completely unaware of what it was going out. I wasn't thinking what I was doing was normal. Right.

You know, so I had enough wear without. But after, it took several years of hours. I mean, literally hours a day, and that's not healthy. And it got to the point where, you know, the simple things don't arouse you anymore. It has to be hardcore, you know. For sure. That's, that's, that's probably one of the biggest things people don't realize. And I think that's what's happening nowadays with the internet is, you have really young people getting addicted. So you know how the story goes, you know, you have like an 18 year old that can go on forever and ever, but they have erectile issues.

Yeah. Yeah. And because they, if they don't have that, that, uh, hardcore stuff in front of them, they can't get, become aroused. Right. So, it's like a rabbit hole. You go down in that. And like you said, you know, if you're doing it daily and all the time, you do need more and more and more dirty and more, you know, listen. And then where do you find yourself? Like you said, you found yourself like watching gay porn.

And that's not even something that you're into. And that's where you know you have a problem. When I was drinking alcohol, it's like, and I'm sorry, I'm going to talk a lot in this episode, when I talk to people that have addiction, I love it because I've like been there done that and I totally get it, you know? And like when I was drinking alcohol, like there was a certain point and I feel like this was when I reached my bottom and it was very soon after that I started, I quit and I, that's when I, you know, got sober. But because I, when I was drinking, I was doing things that wasn't me. You know what I mean? And a lot of people would be like,

oh, when you drink, like the truth comes out. It's like, no, actually not. I was being completely someone that I wasn't. Like I was doing things and saying things when I was drunk. I had no control of myself that I would never do. And I was waking up every morning horrified, you know, just wanting to take 10 showers because I couldn't get over like what I did the night before. And that was alcohol, you know, and that's when I realized I had to stop because I had no control over myself. So I totally get that. There's no subconscious things coming in that you're kind of attracted to guys. You're just not facing it. You know what I mean? Like fuck off those people that are saying that Like, no, you were, you were just so far in.

Like, that was like where you really have to realize, like, something's fucking wrong here because this isn't even something I like, but I need it or else I can't get out of myself. Well, I think that's very true. And I think to your point, and this is the way porn addiction is also common with other addictions is shame. I mean, afterwards, after you go to these places and you think, well, okay, you know, like, especially with porn, some of it's very abusive. the women and and it's just like well i actually participated in that whether it was i wasn't directly but by watching that i gave somebody money to help keep producing that kind of stuff and it creates a lot of shame yeah and then when you get that shame it just makes you go back into it because you're you feel terrible you feel shameful about it and you're like well you're not worth and i don't know

if it's that way with alcohol i don't have experience that was that way with porn so it's like you feel so bad there. Like, well, what's the point of doing anything different? I'll just go back there again. And it's like a bad cycle. Yeah, it's like you're in the hamster wheel and you can't get out. And I always feel like for me as a sober person, because I did get out of that. I always feel like, how the fuck did that happen?

If I look back, I just feel so lucky that somehow something clicked in me because I think it is very, very difficult to get out of that cycle. For me, my shame got too much. Like I said, it was towards the end. that's what got me to stop because I couldn't take that feeling the next day that I felt. And that became greater than my sort of need to check out. But when you do stop, you know, it is very hard. But let's just stay with the story a little bit more.

I just want to know because, I mean, as a person that just got a separate phone, you know, for my show, I find it very hard to keep two phones going and keep them separate. And if I was like trying to hide the other one, I don't know that it could. It's hard enough for me to find it half the time or figure out which I'm doing. How did you, like how hard was it to keep like this whole secret life? Or was it easy? And that's the scary thing. Yeah, you know, it was something that takes discipline.

And it's something that like this phone, and I'm calling you on it because I don't want anybody else to know, obviously. So it takes a lot of discipline. It makes sure it's always unvibrate. It never comes off of vibrate. So it can't accidentally ring where I'm using my phone and there's another phone ringing in my pocket and everybody's looking at me. You're like, what's going on there? Because I do work around people. I work with family as a family business.

So I have to be very careful that way. And then it just goes into a hiding spot at the end of the day. And then it comes out when I need it. So that part wasn't overly difficult, but you can't screw up. Now, did you wife ever? Are you still with that wife? Yeah. It's kind of like we're kind of a trap.

We're together for the kids and for the family issues that, you know, divorce could cause. I live in a very rural area, a very conservative area, and it would just make kind of a mess of things for divorce. or anything like that. So. But you never got caught. Like, did she ever find out anything?

No. I was very fortunate that way. Okay. And then what was the turning point for you that you were like, this, I can't do this anymore. And then how did you seek treatment? Like, what did you do? Did you go to, like, meetings?

Did you go to a therapist? Like, because I think anyone that's going to quit something, you need help. You can't. do it alone. Exactly. So I was in a predicament because I did not really want to tell my wife about this. And that's what they in programs and everything and I started researching. That's one of the things that you have to do. You have to tell your wife. You have to, you know, confess. And I did not want to go down that road for two reasons. I didn't want to hurt her. Number one, but also for selfish reasons. Look, our sex life sucked and I wrote this a little bit in the

email. It was very, we didn't, it's kind of funny to say it, but we didn't, we weren't together sexually until after we were married. And, and what I thought would happen is over time, I thought she would open up more, but she was very close-minded to sex and very, you know, people used the word vanilla, but this is like vanilla on steroids. It was just, it was just, it was, it Yeah, it was like, you know, we, we have sex to have a family. I mean, this is not her words, but this was like, and we, and that was actually part of the arousal for her was having a family and having a, uh, uh, using it for like, uh, for example, she hated birth control. And, um, and just, it just would be a such a downer and turnoff. And she did never want to me to like pull out to calm.

Ever, it was always in sight for what I found out were obvious reasons. And then to the point where she gave me a book one time that said, it was a book about sex, but it explained how a woman cannot orgasm if a man pulls out to ejaculate. And that was, you know, and I'm like, really? I feel like women have been doing that for the dawn of time. I know. I mean, but I was kind of taught by her. Yeah.

And so I felt really trapped. And I felt like there wasn't an open, open place to explore sexually because one of the things you learn in addiction recovery is if you're married, you know, you tell your spouse and you try to work through it and you, you, you stop looking at pornography, obviously. You stop masturbating and you try to work just on your, your marriage and your sexuality there for the beginning anyway. But I didn't have anywhere to go. So I thought, I have a really unique situation because I don't have. have anywhere to go sexually with my wife because she's so close-minded and so, you know, almost to the freak-out mode if I suggest anything. So what I did to help myself to get to the point where I'm at today is a lot of YouTube, a lot of research. And yes, and then I did sign up for a

program that it was, you know, you go into meetings, which was a little tricky to, to schedule that secretly, but I made it work. And you go into meetings and you meet other people that have your problem and you talk about it. You go through programs and you learn about why what's going on in your brain is going on. You learn about things like, you know, good hormones like dopamine being the biggest one when it comes to arousal and sexuality and how it's good to, you know, let those things build up and then release in your body and what pornography was doing was just basically opening the flood gates all at once yeah and and something all at once is never a good thing and so you learn about those things so you learn replacement therapy okay if I get fidgety you know

what do I do you know and and it took a long time to to to get to the point like years. Yes. It isn't something that, yeah, I just went and I said, okay, and I stopped. Yeah, it's not the movies. Yeah, right. And it wasn't over, and I would have good streaks, and then I would just go through bad streaks.

Yeah? And so. Can I ask you a question? Because I think that a lot of people might find this episode that might think that they have this issue. And, you know, I always like to help people. So I feel like you could be very helpful if you give people some information. of like specifically like you said I did some like I did replacement therapy like what did you use to

when you got fidgety and wanted to go down that rabbit hole what did you use to distract yourself and go someplace else like what were some of the things you did okay so I I have a lot of hobbies I have a lot of things I enjoy and and what one of the bad things about addiction is is it takes all those things and it just pushes them away yeah and and so I cultivated those things more. Like, you know, even to the point where if I need to kill some time, you know, I like sports. I like football. I like baseball.

And, you know, you can find stuff out and read. And I enjoy reading. I enjoy learning things. And so what I do now is I just, you know, my YouTube suggestions are not filled with garbage anymore. or, well, you know what I'm trying to say here. It's just going to your hobbies, going to the things you enjoy. And not just like, it doesn't mean like just because you're into sports and someone will be like, well, I can't go play football because I don't have something.

But you're like, you don't even have to go do the sport. You could listen to a podcast about it. You could go read about it. I find your podcast fascinating because of all the different people you have on. So that's what it is. And this is a little different, but this is more unique to me because I figured out what works for me. Yeah. If I'm really aroused and I'm really, you know, feeling it, I can masturbate, okay?

I can find a private place. But what I can't do is I can't go to Porn Hub and... Masturb to Porn. Yeah, masturbate to porn. Because Pornhub basically, you know, for people that are familiar with it, and use it, they hook you in pretty good because they're, they find out what you like and then they suggest things. And then so you're watched, and the addicts will, we'll understand this.

You watch something for something 30 seconds. No, that's no good. Go on to the next thing. And there's always that new suggestion. So what happens is you, what should be like 20 minutes to sit back and relax and have an orgasm, turns out to be hours because you can't find that next fix. You can't find what you're really looking for or what's going to really push you over the edge.

So like right now, I could, something I couldn't do before, I could do right now. I could kick, like I could find a private place in my car, for example, and kick the seat back and masturbate with nothing except my imagination and take 20 minutes. or whatever, a normal allotted time. And then you work through it. And then it's done. And then it's done. And before the thing is, and this is another addict thing,

is you didn't want an orgasm because if you orgasm, yeah, felt good. But then you're done. Yeah. You want to stay in that state. Yeah. It's all about like avoidance. And, you know, so the longer something takes you out, the better. So that's why it becomes the thing

And that's why it can be addictive Because they are set up to take you down the rabbit hole No different than Instagram or any of these other things That we just go in and you're like, oh my God An hour went by and I was just like reading about someone I don't even know You know what I mean? Looking at their pictures and shit, you know, it's like crazy. Yeah.

So we're all, I think, facing it, you know, But I think that when it gets to the point where you were at Where, you know, it's making you feel shameful and it's taking you away from your life. And like you said, your hobbies, like you said. Like it takes you away from those things. So you don't have time. If you're spending four hours just having one orgasm, you have no time left in the day.

I know. And sometimes it would go days without orgasm just because, you know. Oh, interesting. Really? It's just weird. It's so messed up. Because why, I mean, orgasm is the climax, right? Yeah.

That's what you're, I mean, and, and, you. And you're delaying that gratification for what reason. It doesn't even make sense when you think about it. But it does if you actually think about it. It's exactly like perfect if you think about it. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. You're exactly right. So I don't know. But like right now, like in my life, I really also think that, you know, when you start looking into therapy, anybody who's been in therapy, one of the first. first things you learn about is mindfulness. And you don't necessarily have to meditate all the time and just, you know, do that. But I did learn a lot of ways to redirect your brain.

Yeah, they called stinking thinking and AA. You know what I mean? No more stinking thinking. You want to retrain your brain when you start to go that way. What kind of things did you learn to do? And I know that you feel like, oh, it's just specific to you. but I always feel like you never know that there's somebody out there that like it would work for them or something. You know what I mean?

So it's always helpful to really tell your story because other people can relate and maybe take these tips and use them themselves. Sure. So, so like sometimes even like during the day, you know, I'll close my eyes, 20 minutes of meditation. You know, you do do breathing. And I think that that helps me a lot to. And then also I think to the point. where I think this is what for pornography addiction, what trips a lot of men up is when you first go into it

and you look at things, there's a very, very big thing about abstinence, complete abstinence, no pornography, which is okay, that part I get. But then there's you can't masturbate. You can't do anything. And I think that freaks a lot of guys out to the point where where is,

is that what they tell you in the, in the, in recovery or what do you mean? Yeah, in recovery. Yeah. It's, that's, they really, really stress that. Oh, really? And then, you know, if you ever, yeah, Google, no fap. I learned what no fat meant.

I didn't have any. No what? No fat. No fat. No, and an FAPP. Oh, no fat. FAP. Okay, what does that stand for?

Well, it means abstaining for masturbation. Oh. Oh. And so, but what they're trying to do, and I get it, but what it does is I think, like, guys like me, it completely freaks them out because it's like, uh, it makes it seem like, no, I can't do that. Yeah. Yeah, because a lot.

And then if you, if you start going down that road, there's a lot of people that are just, like, abstaining for sex for 90 days and no, no masturbate. And I'm thinking, why? Sex is pleasurable. And you have to have it. It's like food. Yeah. Yeah.

Right. Yeah. What's the purpose? Now, I understand a purpose for somebody. you that is addictive for for a period of time but what I think happened to me is that freaked me out because it's like okay I have this uh basically my wife and I haven't had sex for what's going on a year or not right um so you're not getting that release anywhere else right and so if if you have like a single person or or something and you're you're told that that you just can't um you can't have

sexual release. Yeah. I mean and I don't agree with that. I think that's stupid and I think that's and I get the kind of the concept but I think that's something that can be tweaked a little bit. Yeah because

listen to what you did. It was so right and the point that you made that you'll pull over on the side of the road which I think is hilarious. And you know because you're horny, you got a boner and you got to release it. And you jerk off but the difference is, and this is what is so important, is you don't go to porn.

You use your imagination. And that is, to me, apples and oranges, that is the difference. And that is the difference that makes, that's what makes all the difference because it wasn't orgasming for you that was the problem or for an addict. It was spending four hours to fucking get there. You're not going to spend four hours in your mind. You can't, okay? So I think that it's so smart of you.

And I'm so glad that you, because I think like what you say and what you're bringing up is super important that a lot of times certain programs or certain people have it in their mind that you have to do it this way. And I'm so glad that you went in and you decided to, you know, go sober on your thing. But you, when you saw something that didn't make sense, you're like, you know, I don't need to do that, but I'm still going to do it. Because I think what happens is a lot of people say, oh, I can't not masturbate. So fuck that. And then they throw it all away. You know, there were a lot of things when I went into, I did AA for a couple months in the beginning. And there were a lot of things that they put on the table that I was like, I don't want to talk to somebody every day for my whole life or go to a meeting every single day.

It was, I just didn't want to live in my problem forever. But I wanted to get over it, you know. So I took what I wanted from the program that worked for me and I was still very successful. I'm 17 years sober and never had a fucking drink, you know. Oh, good for you. Yeah. So I do believe like, And I teach this to my son, the most important thing in life, I feel like, is to have your own brain, you know, and really think for yourself no matter what. You don't have to take the whole thing that they're pitching to you, but take most of it, right? Like, and that's what you did. You said, you know what? Like, I want to quit, but like, I do want to masturbate. And I think what you're saying is so right on the money. Like, you don't have to not masturbate it, but it's like how you do it. And so I think you are smart and you were still successful. And you didn't throw it all out the window and say no. And so people.

listening, those guys, because I think a lot of people will be like, oh, I can't do that. So then they just totally don't wind up taking the help or listening to anything else. I'm like long-winded about it, but you know what I'm trying to say. No, that's exactly right. I think you're bringing up great points. Yeah. And I also want to say, you know, okay, so even like right now, just recently, after about two years of nothing as far as pornography goes, okay, I have started to re-endums.

okay I have started to reintroduce some stuff now that's you got to be it's work for me but but but here's here's the thing and this is for me because because I'm trapped in my marriage I don't a small time I don't there's so many reasons why I can't cheat or do something in real real life I'm putting up my fingers in quotation um So I do a little bit, but mostly just like images. So basically the biggest poison for me was, and what I realized about myself, was the two, the pornography tube sites, like, you know, the whole list. I've been there every single one of them.

And so that pretty much, it's off limits. I can't go there because I know if I go there, it'll be, it'll be. be way, way, way, way, way too much. Uh-huh. But you go someplace else. But I do a little bit, just for the sake of, you know, the simple visual is, is appealing sometimes, you know? So I just didn't quite hardly feel like, I imagine like, you know, it's sexy.

I mean, and that's the biggest difference now is it's sexy. it's erotic and it's pleasurable and it's not and that's what it should be and it's not an addiction. Right, you can feel the difference. I know the difference. I feel the difference. And I kind of introduced that slowly and I felt like after that amount of time I could try that. Listen, I think that it's very like, and I was going to say this and you've said a couple things that were like exactly what I was going to say. It's like, you know, with certain addictions, it's harder to kick some addictions than others.

Like, you know, for me, drinking is not a part of everyday life drinking alcohol. So it was very easy in some sense for me to say no more drinking. I don't go into bars. it's very black and white and that's it. It's a lot harder for the person, like, you know, the person that's addicted to food and eating or the person that's addicted to sex, because these are things that you can do and are good to do and need to do in your everyday life. So I feel like it's a lot harder to kick those habits than like a drug habit or something

because you don't need that to survive. Exactly. Yeah. It's a dance. Sexuality. And is a part of life. Absolutely. Like drinking alcohol.

Well, you can drink lots of different things where you're not going to actually stop ingesting liquid. Right. So, I mean, there's alternatives. So it's like sex. It's not the sex that's the problem. It's the addiction aspect of it. Right. But what I really believe, okay, sorry to cut you up again, but what I really believe and tell me if you're doing this is that, you know,

you could take whatever you're addicted out, whether it's porn, like I said, you could be addicted to anything, right? Whatever that is that's making you check out for your life and not fucking show up. Whatever that is, you could get rid of it. But I know for me, you know, I thought my problem was alcohol, so I quit drinking. And then when I quit drinking, all these things started to come up. And then I realized, oh, like drinking wasn't the problem. My problem is feeling. I don't like these feelings and I want to get out of these feelings. And now that I don't have alcohol, what the fuck do I? What can I do? And I have to actually sit here and feel this. You know, so I think it's so important that after you put that down that you spend your time, not just on your

hobbies and your distractions, but working on the part of you that needs to run away to begin with. So that's why I'm asking you. Like, do you take care of that too? Are you trying to, are you trying to figure out what you were running away from? Yeah, no, I know exactly what. Yeah. That was like, I alluded just a little, I just touched on it a little earlier when you're in recovery is why things happen. And for me, I know why things happened the way they did.

Number one, I was predisposed, but that, that's regardless. That doesn't matter. But it was being trapped in my life. Yeah. And thinking to myself, I remember this is kind of funny. back when I was a kid I would you know my mom would have these you know magazines like you know I refraining good housekeeping and just like women's magazines whatever and in and I would pick them up and paste drum if I didn't have anything to do you know and and there was interesting

articles and almost every one of them about sexless marriages and I was you know a teenager and I thought well that'll never happen to me right uh I would never put up with that. Yeah. Yeah, right, right. I mean, there's things you can do, blah, blah, blah. And I went, you know, so that was kind of naive at the time. So then, you know, fast forward.

And my marriage just went in a completely different direction than I was ever expected. And we just wanted so many different things out of life. I mean, I'm at the point now where it's cold where I'm at. And I'd love to be in Florida. And I have the means to be in Florida. Yeah. except for I'm just tied with a huge giant chain to where I'm at now and I can't I can't get away unless I go by myself but um so so for me it was just being trapped being trapped and like under this thumb of this is what you're as expected of you in life and you have all these uh this big family and you have to support them and it and you have to go to work and you have to I mean I I own my own business with the my family and it's just like all that pressure and stress was just with no outlet.

Yeah. No escape. And so I, yeah, no escape. I felt, I felt trapped. And, you know, the person that you're married to is supposed to help with that kind of stuff in an ideal situation. But that was kind of like part of the problem. So that's what caused me to just. But my point, but my question would be, you know,

A, have you ever let her know how trapped you feel? And B, do you still feel trapped? Or have you reframed your situation? I mean, like, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, I still feel trapped in a lot of ways. But I feel like I have a system of place to make it work for me. Yes, I have told her. and that that creates a lot of resentment and a lot of stress.

We've been to like marriage, like probably five different marriage counselors over the last 10 years. And it's something that I really, really, really, and that's trying to collect my thoughts here. That is something that at this point I have no interest in going anymore because I feel like I put everything on the table. I tried. I did everything I possibly could.

Right. You feel like you. can't be changed. You got to change yourself. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we would go into those places. And, you know, the therapist, if you ever go to marriage counseling or couples therapy, they're nice. And they try to see both sides. And I guess you read between lines, you know, you kind of get the sympathetic look from them when they look at me. Like, oh, my God, you got your hands full by that. I'm not blameless. I'm not Mr. Perfect. But I'm actually willing to work on. something. I don't just close up and shut everything down and say no, no, no, this is basically

the way it is and the way things have to be. And so, so I'm at a point now where I can make it work. It's getting to the point now I really would like to feel some touch, sexual, you know, real touch, real skin. What was the last time you guys had sex? It was, it's been it'll last spring. And that was just be a very feeling. and far between because it just if birth control is used it's a panic issue

and there's no arousal there on her end and if we don't use it well that that gets into other other issues there too but um you don't want to have any more kids so for you then it's an arousal issue if you're not yeah and I pretty much flat out

told her that. Yeah that's okay to say yeah I mean sex is not about procreation. I mean, it's something that has to happen for procreation to happen, but that's not to be all-end-all. Oh, my God, yeah. And sometimes when it does become that and couples are having problems and they have to do it just for that, I mean, it could really kill your sex life. Yeah. So really, right now, I have to be careful, you know, at this point because, you know, that, that part of it is is starting to creep in more now over time because even

before last spring, I mean, it wasn't like we were making love every other night, you know, it was pretty, I could probably count on one hand in the last two years. In fact, I know I can how many times we were together. And even then, it was like awkward because it's just like, you know, we don't know what to do with one

of them. Yeah. Yeah, it's crazy that, it's crazy that, you know, two people, two people, both you and her, you know, have, this thing that is not working. I'm sorry. Like there is a piece of the pie that is just not there. And there's probably, it doesn't sound like every other piece is there. You're excellent. Yeah, right. Okay. So you have something that's very broken, not right, doesn't work, needs to be fixed. And I know that like you said, you tried and she, you know, but like, and that you're like okay to just accept it because you're afraid of what the neighbors think or your kids or they? your kids still young?

No, yeah. Our kids are, yeah, it's that part of it is not so much what the neighbors say, but, you know, financially it would cause a mess.

Right, right, there's a lot too. And I don't want to hurt. And my kids. Yeah. I don't want to hurt my kids. They have a, they do have a good mom.

And, you know, she's messed up, but, you know, that's the adults. Right, but she would still be their mom? She would still be their mom, and I couldn't, I couldn't do that still. Yeah. I couldn't. And

not only that, you know, all the reasons, I don't want to get in the position where the grass is greener on the other side. I don't know. I'm sorry, but the grass is greener on the other side. I know. No, no, you're tempting me, Kathy. You're tempting me. The grass is definitely greener. Not to say that you can't make your grass greener, I mean, but there's green or grass out there. Okay. Your grass is fucking brown. So that's kind of where I'm at now.

Yeah. It's, is, I got life left here. Yeah. What am I, what am I going to do with it? And, yeah, do I feel stuck? I absolutely feel stuck. And that's why, like, to refer to one of your other podcasts, I listened to a

Jene Wright one is, um, that kind of resonated for me because I thought, I thought that it's kind of fun how she enjoyed married men, but she also pointed out something that I thought was very relevant is that it's not just sexual. Guys like to hear, have somebody to talk to, hear about their day. Yeah. We're emotional guys too. We're not just, you know, 100% sex all the time. And I miss that. I miss that a lot. I enjoy talking to you just to unload all this. Yeah. Just I think it's therapeutic just because somebody cares. or something. It's telling my story a little bit.

Do you have a therapist? I don't write at the moment. I, yeah, when some things in life settled down just a little bit, yeah, it's definitely on the list. Yeah, it's hard to find the right one for sure. I did have a better help thing. You could use BetterHelp. Yeah, I tried better help.

I actually did try better help, and what was hard for me was scheduling issues. Right. Like even for, I had to cancel this, this, our podcast one because something came up and I was really hoping I could make this one. Yeah. And it has work. But the better help thing was, it was just a big scheduling issue. And there's so many therapists to choose from and you have no, really no clue about them. It's hard.

Yeah. It is hard. But better help. Yeah. I'm familiar with them and actually tried them for a month. Yeah, yeah. That's great. But I just think that, you know, you definitely want, because you're still in your, you're still in your,

your, you know, that reason of why you, you know, were doing and getting it. You know, it's still there. You still feel trapped. You still want to let go. And I just, I don't know. I always feel like life is so short. And not to say that, listen, leaving your wife is the end all be all, you know, but I just think like, or, but I think, then try to fix it still.

I know, you know, but I know that you just, but maybe. the right thing is like what you did, which is just decide to give up on that and just try to accept it for what it is and move on. Yeah. And that's, the problem with me is, when it comes to our marriage is, I look at my wife now and I have no desire to fix it. My desire to fix it is, it's completely done. It's just like, you know, and that's, and that is, it's sad on a lot of levels, because when you get to that point where you don't even, you know, the effort, it's just not. And it's not because I didn't try. And that's another thing.

I think I can walk away comfortably from something like that in giving up because I put everything I could possibly think of on a table. Yeah, well, listen, you can't change somebody else. I think it does definitely take two people. If she's like super stubborn and stuck in her ways, some people are just, that's like their personality type, you know. It can be really difficult. I get that, you know, and I don't know her. I just wonder what she would say about her relationship and how she feels in the relationship. I mean, could she be happy with how things are?

No, and she isn't. I mean, she's not stupid. I mean, she realizes that having a husband that, you know, is healthy, you know, and doesn't have issues that. that sex is something that that they need. It's just, she just, it's still stuck. And so I think she has accepted the fact that, that this is what, what we have. But yeah, it bothers her, but not enough to.

It bothers her and that she feels like she can't give you what you want or does it bother her that she's not doing what she wants. No, it bothers her that, the bottom line is it bothers her that I can't be what she wants. And what does she want. Well, she wants me to be a father, a husband, and go to work and come home and just kind of be that idyllic, happy family. Without sex. Without, with sex in our bedroom before we go to bed at night. Uh-huh. That's it.

You know, to the point where, we're for, and this is where it was my. fault too I should have said something earlier I accepted the fact that and just thought of as part of life it's the lack of sexual adventures yeah and I and that's something I regret I should have tackled this issue way earlier in our marriage but I it just you know that's something I I do regret so she would have said do you feel like at this point the fact that you haven't had sex in so long is it not just because she hasn't wanted to do it or just because you don't either either because she wants it in a certain way like you say oh just sex at in bed at night so then why not have sex with her in bed at night you know just at least do you know just say no difference than jerking off right

right use your imagination think of someone else you know I don't know right and I have done that but then it gets into issues you know respect issues and stuff like that and that that kind of bothered me you know, what, thinking of someone else? No, just using your wife as a, like jerking off.

Wow, I'm so disrespectful. I'm like, what's the big deal? You're helping each other out. Like, having you ever like put someone in a boat? Yeah, but we really are because it's just kind of gives you a false sense of,

and not only that, yeah, pregnancy. Right, because she doesn't want to, she okay i i didn't know if i wanted to get into this that part because this was uh i don't know it's i don't i i'll try it anyway yeah is is one of the the the deal breaker the official deal breaker done done for us was she um we were using a form of birth control that she was in control of and I think she got sloppy with it on purpose and became pregnant.

Oh, so you felt very shafted by that. Yeah, yeah. You don't trust her. I don't trust her. I felt very betrayed. I felt, you know. Yeah, horrible. Horrible because for so many years, I said no, no, no, no.

And we have a large family. Yeah. I'm not going into, I won't go into numbers, but it's a lot. And it takes a lot to care of everybody. I'm dying to know how many kids will have. Please tell me. Tell me. Just to give me the number.

I won't go into it. Okay. We had our seventh one. We had our seventh one. Please. And when we had number six, it was more like a deal. Like, okay, okay. If you love me, if you, I'm sorry, I'm imitating my wife.

If you love me, if you, if you, if you, cared about me, you would do this for me because this is what I always want. This is my identity, blah, blah, blah. And I said, so I say, fine, basically, and this is, and then this is on me. Yeah, you just gave it. Like, it's like, just cave. Okay, fine, fine. And then, but, but then I said, no, no, no, no, no. Yeah. And, and then so the last years and year, like, last four or five years, I'm like, no, no, no, no. And then she was, say, okay, I, I think, and then, and then she was, say, okay, accepted that. I understand. I said, well, I should go get a vasectomy. Oh, oh. It just froze, panic. I mean, I thought I'd have to take her to the hospital. Wow. Right. And so I'm like, okay,

okay. Fine. Again, my fault for trying to make peace, we were in, and so we were together probably over a six-month period of time, maybe two or three times. And, what do you know? One of those times was the time. And even though she was supposedly, like, you were having sex with her thinking there's no way we're going to have a baby because she's on birth control. I was having sex with her knowing that it was possible

because I didn't trust her, but I'm trying to do the best I can. Oh, my God. And then when she told me, oh, by the way, she waited, she waited almost three months.

because she couldn't hardly stomach the idea of telling me after all this that that's what happened. And so she was like almost three months pregnant and then she decided to tell me. And she was and I just, I just, I just walked away. I just started walking. I walked for five miles. Oh my God. You were still able to look at porn. That would have been five hours on Porn Hub.

Yeah, right. You got some good exercise. That's good. I did. Yeah. Replacement. Yeah, exercise is a big replacement for me. Yeah, totally.

And the better you feel, the thing is about what the big. You get dopamine from exercise for sure. Like you get hits. You have. It changes your brain. You could never walk into the gym or do any kind of like running or anything without at the end of it feeling completely different and better. 100%. I agree.

It's, the weather's kind of crappy around here now. But I, yeah, when it's nice, I get several miles. Yeah, yeah. So you did a five-mile walk. But yeah, no, I mean, I just kept walking, and I just, I didn't know where I was going or what I was doing. Oh, my God. I kept on going. So that's, and so, and then we haven't been together since.

And so now I got, you know, every, the whole range of kids in different stages in life. And I'm, and, you know, don't quit your job because it, you know, it costs a fortune to keep everyone. Everybody, you know, in shoes and clothes and fed. And so, yeah, so that's a field trap. So, so when I start, found your podcast, I thought, you know what? I do have somewhat of a unique story. It took me a little while to get the nerve up to email you. No, but this is what I love about my show.

And I'm so glad that I don't live in my own box because, you know, I got your email. It's like, I did these things when I was young and I kind of was addicted to porn. and I have like a vanilla sex life and I'm like okay you know what I'm gonna it's not boring but like okay this is what it is but you know what I always say to myself like I never know

I love getting on the phone with a total stranger and you know you ask someone enough questions or let them start speaking and it's like peeling back the onion and it so many times you know a story is just so much more fascinating than I thought it was going to be it's very rare that the opposite happens

but sometimes it does like I so I get an email with someone and it's so much great stuff and then I get on the phone with them and it's like okay but like this I'm so glad that I you know said let and I said to you like let's have this conversation maybe it'll be short we'll just do the porn addiction because I think that's a short story but I just really feel like this had so many other layers to it I mean and it's so interesting and I love that I mean look I told you we might spend a half hour we're only at an hour and you like you're ready to just started with the thing with your wife and the kids and all that kind of stuff.

I mean, that's another topic. I think it's very important. I'm a very fair person. You know, I'm not one of those that like, oh, I'm just into women's right. I'm into anyone's right. You know, I'm just like into fairness, equality, like across the board for everyone. And I just feel like, you know, women should have the right for abortion and all those rights for women. But I feel like, you know, sometimes men do get shafted in that they don't have any choice.

And they, you should have a choice too. You know, it really needs to be. both people's decision to have a baby, you know, not, you know, and especially in this situation where you had many conversations and many discussions and it was clear that the last thing you wanted was number seven. And she went and did that. And I'm sure she did that on purpose, like you're sure. Oh, yeah. There's no doubt in my mind. It was it was. It was. It was. manipulation to the you didn't trust her for a reason and I think

that that's just not fucking cool it's just not no no it's not cool to you it's not cool to that child it's not cool to your other children it's just not right I agree with you and I see that's what that's what that was the that was the end

that was the end officially the end for me I mean, that was like, why, why am I even trying to do anything as far as therapy or, you know, I have no desire to be with this person, really? Well, that's hard because that's a trust issue. You know, it's not just, oh, she's vanilla and she doesn't give me sex and she's stubborn and she doesn't want to change. She's also, you know, you can't trust her. Like, and now, like, I could imagine how hard that would be for you to go back and have sex with her when you have that. right there and now i i understand it more with that part of the story right and then it is maybe this is a phone call for another day i don't know if but as far as that but part of it is

it's it's me too because sometimes here's where i where i my brain goes sometimes is it's okay i married somebody extremely inexperienced with sex and when you get addicted to chronography, that doesn't just go away when you're done. I really do believe pretty strongly. You can take that into the bedroom. And while she probably couldn't put her finger on what was happening. Yeah. There's no doubt where my brain was going sometimes when I was having sex with her. And it wasn't good. And so sometimes I think, you know, did that, how far back did that kind of behavior on my part set us? Right, and for her to be pushing you away because she sends that and it wasn't cool. That's your part of things.

Yeah. Yeah. So maybe part of the reason, and she didn't know it and I didn't know it at the time, that she was a little adverse to some things sexually was. Because they were too extreme that no woman would have wanted to do it. It's not porn in the real life. Right. Right.

Exactly. I mean, what did my face look like? What did I, you know. I love that. That's very, I love that you bring that up. There was some famous musician talking about her addiction. I forget who it was. I think I heard it on how,

talking about her addiction to porn and how, you know, it's just so not what it's going to be in real life, you know. And listen, I do not. I think it's like alcohol. It's like anything that people are addicted to. Like, I mean, porn is not bad. I believe in it for people. But like, you know, it is, just like alcohol.

I can make drinks for people. I think it's great that people could drink alcohol. have a great time. I just can't, you know. And I think with porn, you know, the porn itself isn't bad. I think the people that are putting it all in a place and then shoving it, you know, submitting it to you, like you said, in the way that gets you addicted to it. You know, those are the people that are making money and they know human nature and, you know, maybe those people have to, you know, how do they sleep at night, you know? But porn is okay. But when it gets to that place, it isn't cool because these are the things that it could do to you.

You know, you come to the table and you come to the bedroom and you want your girl to do these things that you saw and, you know, and it's just not realistic. And I think that, you know, people need to keep that in mind. But I think, you know, and I think that's, I think, you know, you said it early on and I, and I loved that you said it. You said, I have a part in this too. Like I'm not just, you know, and there always is two sides of the story, you know. So like, yeah, definitely. You know, that might be a part of her story if I were talking to her. Like, this is what he wants me to do and I felt weird.

You know, so I don't know. My thing to you, because we're going to wrap this up, but like, I just feel like as long as you're alive and I know that you quit and you gave up and you figured it out. And right now you're probably in that place. You have like a, I'm assuming now you have very much a newborn. If I do the matter of what you told me, you know, you're dealing with small. child, you're there. I get, you know, maybe this is where you need to be with your solution.

But, you know, I really hope that at some point you go back to trying to figure out other options. If it's not leaving her, it's maybe changing things. Maybe when she goes through menopause and can't get pregnant anymore, I don't know, maybe she's really the type that her sex drive will go out the window and then it's really off the table. But maybe that'll help you guys. I don't know, but, you know, I would.

hope for you that at some point and for her that at some point you would want you would go out about trying to you know have more than what you have now and do either fix things or you know try to figure out how to make it better that's it because listen I can't tell people oh leave someone you know it's not black and white you know what I mean at all no I didn't you know I agree with that. It really isn't. And I never understood. I think when I was younger

and I'd give people advice, I never understood why people wouldn't leave marriages more easily until I had a child. You know, people would be like, I can't do that to my child, you know. And I think when you have a child, you really understand. I mean, the thing as a parent,

you think about your children's feelings more than anybody's. You know, I never gave a shit what anyone thought about me. But my son, I really care what the fuck he thinks. Like I, you know, you just want to make your children happy. So I know that when parents do actually choose to leave and I, I know that that is a really, really hard decision to make, you know. So I get it.

I get it. And I don't think it's wrong when parents leave. Like I wish, like my parents are still together. They never got divorced. But it would have been better for me if my parents got divorced because I am very commitmentphobic because their relationship was so horrific to me that it makes. it makes relationships not really, I just don't really get it.

You know what I mean? I don't really get why people would want to be married. But, you know, because that's what was, so yeah, my parents ate together. It wasn't good. So there's always two sides of that story, but I get where you're at,

and I totally understand it. And I just, though, hope that two years maybe something happens that changes the game somehow and you can. But I really give you credit that you were able to get yourself

off of that hamster wheel. Oh, yeah. And I hope that my show isn't triggering for your addiction. I don't believe that I do porn on my show. I always feel like I, you know, are trying to tell stories, you know, and I hope that they don't, you know, send you down the rabbit hole and instead they are informative. No, no. You know, yeah.

Yeah, it's interesting. Yeah, yeah. They're interesting. Yeah, yeah, cool. So I, but I think it's great that you kicked a habit. It's very hard, okay? It's very hard. I think it's important, like you said, to say that it didn't happen

when I took years. But, you know, it's funny when you quit an addiction, like in six months, you feel like, oh my God, I'm so great. Like, I can't believe how far I come. And then you two years later, you're like, wow, like that was nothing compared to this. And then 10 years later, you know. I like to hear that. That's good.

Yeah. Yeah. And it's lots of falling on your face. Yes. That's the way it is at the beginning. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And you will reach for other things.

and you're just like, oh, you know, but it just gets better and better. I'm 17 years and it's so much better than six years and 10 years. And, you know, so it only gets better. It's the greatest thing you could really do is to try to work on that part of yourself. Try to stay in your life because not only do you feel better because your life becomes better because if you're really focused on your life and really present, you know, you're forced to eventually start taking care of business and business. doing things that you need to do so that you're happier.

And I just hope that that comes up. I get that you have other things going on right now. Sure, sure. But, you know, I hope things get better in your marriage at some point because life is short. And so, you know, keep me posted if there are any major changes. I will. I'll let you know. Okay.

Okay. I will. And thank you so much for calling in. I love this episode. Okay. Well, great. I appreciate it, Kathy. All right.

Cool. Bye. Sam. What do we call you, Sam? Bye, Sam. Sam, okay. Yep, see you. Bye.

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