Strictly Anonymous Confessions - 518 - Davis Sheds Light on the High End Escort World

Episode Date: August 17, 2022

Davis called in to shed light on the high end escort world. When and why did he start seeing high end escorts? What exactly does he do with them? And, how does he keep it all on the dl? Tune in for all the details which explain how he wound up working at an escort agency when he was a lot younger and what he learned there, how he was always monogamous and what happened that changed him, how he felt after his first time he cheated, the cost of the website he signed up for to book the escorts and how they vetted him, what exactly he looks for when booking and why, how he prefers the Girlfriend experience and what that entails for him, the escort he got too close with and what he learned from that “relationship,” the specific fetishes he’s tried while hooking up including bdsm and more, his hot scenario with a flight attendant, and a teacher as well as the hotwife role play he engaged in while having an overnight experiences and a whole lot more **To see anonymous pics of my female guests + hear anonymous confessions + get all the episodes early and AD FREE, join my Patreon! It's only $7 a month and you can cancel at any time. You can sign up here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.patreon.com/StrictlyAnonymousPodcast⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and when you join, I'll throw in a complimentary link to my private Discord! MY BOOK IS NOW OUT FOR PRE-ORDER!!!! Strictly Anonymous Confessions: Secret Sex Lives of Total Strangers. A bunch of short, super sexy, TRUE stories. GET YOUR COPY NOW: https://amzn.to/4i7hBCd To Join SDC and get a FREE Trial! click here: https://www.sdc.com/?ref=37712 or go to SDC.com and use my code 37712 Want to be on the show? Email me at [e-mail] or go to http://www.strictlyanonymouspodcast.com and click on "Be on the Show" Have something quick you want to confesss while remaining anonymous? Call the CONFESSIONS hotline at 347-420-3579. You can call 24/7. All voices are changed. Sponsors: https://bluechew.com Get your first month FREE! https://butterwellness.com/ Try the Butter Wellness perineum massager and use code STRICTLY for 20% off your entire order Follow me! Instagram https://www.instagram.com/strictanonymous/ Twitter https://twitter.com/strictanonymous?lang=en Website http://www.strictlyanonymouspodcast.com/ Everything else https://linktr.ee/Strictlyanonymouspodcast Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome to the Strictly Anonymous Podcast. Strictly Anonymous Podcast. Conversations with online strangers. We place ads online. The Craigslist is definitely like the gift that keeps on giving. Real people respond. You go to Singapore or Thailand. You can't not do it.

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People get to comment on the episodes, go over to YouTube, look up strictly anonymous podcast, subscribe to my channel there and comment on the videos. Today I have on Davis. He talks about where he got that name from. There's a reference to a movie Crash Davis. He'll talk about that. But he's here to talk all about the high-end escort world. I used to have a guy on early in my podcasting days that called in a couple times and gave me the scoop, the back story on the high-end escort business.

It was super fascinating to me. I think it will be to all of you. Most people can't afford a high-end escort all the time. They happen to be very expensive. And it is a very different world that, like I said, people don't really know about it. So I find this kind of stuff interesting. He's in that world. He's been seeing high-end escorts for a long time.

He started working at an escorting place when he was very young, way before he started using them. It wound up to be this side-end, job that he got. So he wound up knowing the ins and the outs. And then so many years later, shit went down in his marriage. He started to seek out escorts and got into that whole world. And that's what we talk about.

We talk about how where he wound up going online to find the girls, how they vet him out on this website. how he finds the girls what they're all about, what he's looking for, how much they charge, his hot experiences. He gets very specific about a couple different ones, one with a flight attendant, one with a teacher, one with a threesome. We talk prices. We talk girlfriend experience. We talk how a guy like him, who, by the way, was always monogamous all his life for a very long time.

how and why he started doing this and how it affected his marriage. His wife has never found out he's been doing this for a while, how he does get away with it. We talk about that. Like, where does he, how does he keep his finances and all the money he spends over in that part of his life a secret? How does he communicate that with them as a secret? All that kind of stuff. Anyway, it's super interesting. You're going to get a lot about the world, about how it works, a lot of hot experiences.

that he has and all that kind of good stuff. So anyway, I'm just going to be right back on with Davis. Hi, Davis. We're calling you Davis, right? How are you doing today? Davis is pretty good. How are you, Kathy? Good.

I know you wanted to call yourself Crash Davis. Is that what it is? What was that reference? Because maybe other people get it. Really obscure reference. I guess you're a guy with age of 40 and has seen Bull Durham. But there was a line in the movie where he talks about women in the major leagues versus the minor leagues.

And he says the difference is long. and brains. Right. And it's just a funny line. And like I said, you had had a guest on about seven years that had another, seven years ago that had another Costner reference. And so I just thought of that. And I'm like, I'm like no way.

But, you know, the thing is the difference between men and women is men, like men think women know useless things. And we talk about useless things like, you know, gossip and what people are wearing. But women think the same thing about guys. You guys know lines of movies and shit like that. Yeah, I mean, it's useless information, but I bet you there's a lot of guys that are going to know exactly what you're talking about. Oh, yeah. And the reason why that name would relate is because we are going to be talking about high-end escorts, correct?

Is that how it ties into Crash Davis, like long legs and brains? For that one line, I guess that's a reference, yeah, but correct. Because high-end escorts have long legs and brains? I mean, is that where you're, is that the thing? Like they are just the top quality? Not necessarily just the legs, but it's the total package. It's the beauty, the brains, the intellect. And so it's not just the looks.

I guess that's what made you think of the Crash Davis reference. Yeah, yeah. And that's what I love. That's why I want to start there because I think that that is interesting. That's the difference. So, you know, why don't you explain, first of all, a little bit of your backster? I mean, you are a married man, happily married man. Yes.

Who uses high end, top of the mountain. escorts, right, for a very long time. And you're going to tell me all about it. I used to have a guy on very early on named Ray J. I think was his name he used. And he called in and he had the info and the skinny on all of it. It was super interesting to me. That was like six years ago. So I'm excited to talk to another person. And I think it's interesting for people to hear about this whole world. Because it is a world that a lot of people can't live in because it is very expensive. of. Yeah.

And it's a world that I don't think pop culture has ever accurately described them. My pop culture are movies, TV shows, Netflix, whatever. The only two things that have ever done it, in my opinion, are Madison Winter is a high-end provider in Toronto. She did a podcast called Escort Deconstructed. And for the record, I never met her, never spoken with, and never emailed her. But she follows you on Twitter. And Madison, if you're listening, spot on, I do it. Oh, interesting.

Should I have her on my show? Okay. Supposed she follows you on Twitter. Oh, okay. Every episode she has a self-contained. She talks to a woman and a man and a money guy and so on top. Very, very good. And the guy you had on seven years is good.

And oddly enough, here's to you, Leo Grande, the movie out right now. Does it pretty well. Emma Thompson stars in it is called Here's to You Leo Grande. However, it's a male provider and a female client, Emma Thompson's client. Oh, interesting, right. But you're here to talk from the guys perspective. Correct. Yeah.

I always felt it would be a fascinating movie or TV. series. Just about the real ends and outs of the business, what it's like, what it's not like, the misconceptions, the, and the realities. Yeah, I think the problem with that is the laws. I mean, a lot of these, they can't really do it the way they'd want to do it because it's against the law in most places, but they should do it in Canada, where it is not against the law, right? Yeah, that was her point. She's fully out and out there because in Toronto, it's perfectly legal. So why don't you start there? Well, let's start with your happily married. This is not something something like, oh, your wife isn't giving you sex, correct?

Well, a little bit. Oh, okay. The backstory. Yeah. I've been married 15 going on 20 years and about 7 to 10 years into the sex while before that. Just started to get more infrequent, more no troublesome, argumentative, I hate to say. Oh, okay.

To the point we had the talk, like twice. And my struggle with that is everything else about my life and my marriage I absolutely love. I don't want to go through this world with anybody but her. Oh, okay. Interesting. So the only thing you were arguing about and the talk was just about that piece of the pie, the intimacy issue. Every other thing in your life was good in your marriage.

And I didn't realize early on how important that was to me, both personally and as a man. I mean, I hate to use the term sexual being. I think that's a bit of a cliche. But I think the intimacy and the connection, and maybe a little bit of thrill for like a little turn is important. And I struggled with this. I didn't just wake up one day and do it.

It just got to the point I was just very frustrated. And I think I mentioned it earlier, but I worked kind of on the other side of the business way back in the early 2000s in a major city. And so I kind of knew what the real, how it really worked. Well, mention that again, because I don't remember that. And nobody read your email, so they need to know what do you mean you work on the other side of the business. Oh, I thought I put in the email.

No, no, but nobody read the email, so you've got to explain. Oh, okay. In the early 2000s during the tech bust, I lost my job. I was in tech at the time. And I couldn't find a job. Well, actually, I found three jobs. They were all shit jobs. And so I found an ad in the back of the printed monthly alternative paper in the city.

Remember those, the actual printed them out. So it was this very obscure ad about, like, can you work nights? I forget the wording, but it gave this place to report to for the interview. It was this really obscure place. It promised good money. And I think I may have known kind of what it was, but I wasn't sure. So I showed up. And so the interview was basically, I would run the admin side of it.

Bookings, advertising. This is all of this pre-internet. Bookings, advertising, hiring, firing, just the unglamorous side of it, right? So it was an agency. And so we would get girls to come in. We'd book my guys. I kind of got to see that, like I said, the other side of this business, how surprisingly normal it is, how normal the women.

were, how normal the guys were, and just the amount of money going back and forth between people. It was just fascinating. Right then, I said this is just easily being a good movie, and I did that for maybe six or 12 months until I got a job job, and that kind of went away. Just life moved on and everything else, and the funny thing is my wife actually knows about that. Fast forward 15 years later, I kind of knew the machinations of how that industry worked, I knew how to get into it. I knew it really wasn't that risky. And so I just kind of knew what to do. I was already armed with that knowledge.

And so I signed up for a website called Preferred 1-1 or P4-1. Actually, let me back up. I found a local provider here. That was my first visit, to be honestly, kind of nervous, kind of first dating. Went very, very well. Still know her to this day. And saw her for a few months,

and then had seen a few other women, and that led me to the P4 woman. Sorry, I skipped the head about that. No, that's okay, but let me ask you a quick question. Were you a totally monogamous guy before this? And if so, for how long were you completely monogamous to your wife before you started looking around? Always and always will be.

And I know this sounds weird to say this, but I would never have an affair. Uh-huh. In some way in my head, I compartmentalize those into different buckets. to me an affair is almost an emotional affair. It's I'm choosing somebody else over you and that's not what this is. Yeah. And so I don't know if that makes me sound hypocritical, but it's just kind of how I see it.

I see, listen, I, this is the reason why I do my show and I have on tons of guys who have cheated, who cheat in or have cheated on their wives. And I get the whole full story because I think you need to hear the full story and know all the detail. before you put every cheater in one category. You know, there is a difference for sure. Yeah. And to the degree, I think most cheaters, especially men's, I kind of want to be caught, and they're sloppy about it. And like I said, I would never screw to 20-year-old, and she ends up throwing her high-heeled shoes at my window at three in the morning for Hooters, pictures or something like that. I mean, that's just, or my wife's best friend. All these just end very, very badly. Yeah, but I don't think, listen, I don't think all cheaters want to get caught.

I think the ones that are subconsciously maybe wanting an end of the situation and the reason why they're cheating to begin with, they bring that on. I think it's deeper than that. And that's the other reason I do my show to get those full things. And I give my little two cents about that stuff. But with you, let's get back to you. What's the answer to that question? How long were you monogamous before you saw your first local provider? Oh, about 10 years.

Okay. So you were really a monogamous guy? Yeah, yeah. It's interesting, the guy that's monogamous for 10 years. pushes him over the edge. It's not like once a cheater, always a cheater, but it's also not once monogamous, always monogamous. No, yeah. I've never even cheated on a girlfriend. Right. It's just not how I'm wired. I mean, one time I dated two women at the same time because I started dating at this one. It was exhausting. Yeah, totally. I just, why, how can you keep

up and just the money and everything else is exhausting? So I just never, that was never even an option of this. It wasn't cheat or stay in my marriage. It was stay in my marriage and do this. if that makes sense. Yeah, I guess. I mean, you know, to you, it makes sense too. That's what happened. I mean, you went, your whole life being monogamous. You had this wife.

You were really in love with her. Everything else was working except the SEX. You tried before you met this local provider, had a lot of talks with her. Was there a lot of, is that what you said that there was arguing and everything going down, correct? Yes, yes. And in each time I thought we would come to a solution or, something to that effect and it just never stuck we'd always revert back to sex every three months or something like that right okay so eventually how did you feel after that first time that

you met with that first provider i felt conflicted yeah um at one hand it gave me something that i needed both emotionally and sexually but also i felt kind of guilty about it yeah um yeah but not 100% either way i mean i felt bad for not feeling 100% guilty if that makes sense. Totally. I understand every one of those feelings. Yeah. But I got lucky, so to speak, that that person was a great person. Like I said, I still see her to this day, very down to earth, no drama, an actual friend of mine to this day. And will give me references to anybody in her point of view is this is a business and we all got to eat. And so I'm helping other women by giving them your reference. And so sometimes you don't see that. Yeah, yeah. She's

I was, yeah. So then you, when do you make that leap to the preferred? What was that place that you said? After you use the local provider, you then went to a website? It's called Preferred 401 or P411, is what you're called. And the way they do it, at least this is back when I got on there in 15 or 16 or something like that. A lot of this is pre-COVID.

Yeah. That you, you log, you get onto it and one of two, if you're the man, they do it one or two ways. They screen you by either you have to submit your actual personal information, address, maybe a pay stub and your place of employment, and they call you, and they ask for you by name. Wow. And then they get directed there. And so they're okay.

We can verify you're an actual person and you're not law enforcement or whatever. And from what I understand, the site's based in Canada. Or the other option is you have two or three providers vouch for you. And so they give you an okay, so to speak. And you can see one or two ways. And then as a man, after you get one of those two approvals, then you're approved on the site. Oh, interesting. Okay.

And so all the women on there and all the men, they're all completely screened, double-screened, actually. And so you don't have to worry about anybody there being either law enforcement on the either side or a complete psycho, for lack of a better time. Right, right. So it's a way to screen people. And it's not cheap. It's probably a couple hundred bucks a year. So I jokingly call it the e-harmony of provider sides. I mean, you have to be serious to get on it.

And it's not cheap. Right, because you're paying that subscription, but then that doesn't, that doesn't, that doesn't, go towards how much you're going to have to spend for the girls and we're going to get into all of that. No, yeah, that's just the screening. And that's, in my opinion, that P4 is well worth it. Do you know going in how expensive this was going to be? Yes. Okay. And that's the thing about it. And you, that's in my opinion, kind of what separates the quote high end from the rest of it is, I mean, there's other things, but it starts at the price point. It's in a general random market, starting about 500 an hour, maybe a two or three hour minimum.

And you get to the bigger cities, you're at 800,000 an hour, maybe more, again, two or three-hour minimums. So you can't go into this where a couple of grand is a staggering amount of money. Right, exactly. And that's all relative depending on how much you week. And you'll hear women, these exact same women, 500 bucks an hour, they'll have guys call them. So what can you do for 250? No, fuck off. I can go away.

And so, yeah, and that's what it's, unless you can roll deep in this, this may not be your game. Yeah, especially because like you said, that there's an actual, you know, fee for. being a yearly member first and foremost. So they vet you out that way. Yeah. Well, it's like any other service. And in my opinion, sex work is work. Mm-hmm.

And I firmly believe that, but it's like any other service, be your hairdresser or anything else, they have a rate, that's their profession. You wouldn't want to ask them for do it at half price. You wouldn't want a free one or anything else. And so that's just how I view it.

And so if you can't afford it, we'll find a cheaper hairdresser. Right. Now, what were you looking for on there? start describing what the difference is or what that world is all about that. Nobody has ever really got right. Yeah. Me personally,

you may laugh at this, the type I have written all that different from my real life type. That my age floor is probably 35. I'm seen all the way up in the mid, early 50s. Brunette, blonde-ish, curvy, college degree, educated, can talk, sort of articulate.

Like I said, the total GFE, girlfriend experience. Right. And so it's not just sex. To me, anyway, I'm speaking for myself. And in my opinion, that's what makes somebody great at this in this industry, is can you do the whole package? And the long-term regulars I've had, each one of those I clicked with instantly, I can talk to them for hours. And they're interesting, fascinating people. Let me ask you this.

That's kind of what I look for. Do you see these girls when you're traveling for business? Yes. Okay. Again, COVID kind of slowed everybody's role in this industry, obviously. But I had a job that I traveled quite a bit around the country, most major markets. And so I would develop a regular or two in a couple of cities that I would visit frequently. And I would get to know them.

I'd get to know the local scene. Once I got comfortable with me, they'd tell me about themselves, about the city, but why they got into the business, what they like, what they don't like. And it was my way of not doing this in the town that I was. them. Yeah. I mean, I would assume if you're paying that much and you want a total girlfriend experience. I don't know if you're like Ray J. Okay, but what I remember about him, I mean, he would meet them in the hotel lobby. He would maybe take them out to dinner. So he really needed somebody and wanted somebody who could present well. Yeah, that's another thing. Like, I would

never take somebody up to dinner in my hotel. Lord no. Right. But like when I'm traveling, we'd meet at the bar. We made at the hotel restaurant, had dinner, have drinks, whatever. whatever, and the people I would pick, you would see with me and not think anything of it. Right. That's what I mean. At that level, you're paying for the whole package because if you want that experience, you want to be out and about with them and you want it. You don't want it to look like an obvious, oh, that's a guy with the hooker.

Yeah, you can spot them a mile away. Yes, you can. Yeah, I can. Right. Every now and then the rare ones, if I'm with a 42-year-old woman, you can't tell. And that's what I'm looking for. But also from a life standpoint and a conversational education standpoint, I just have a have more in common with them.

So. Right. And so if you're paying for them and they have those minimums, I mean, you're not just fucking the whole time. No, no, not at all. I mean, there's that implied. But the first hour or two, that's why I like, I never book an hour. I like the two, three hours anyway, just I like dinner.

I like the drinks. I like catching up. How's your life? Blah, blah, blah. So it's just more than that. It's more just the connection. Yeah. And the sex involved.

I mean, the sex is still there. I'm not going to lie. and say it's not about it. Of course. Yeah, I want to get more specific about that and go through your first experience. But let me ask you a quick question about your finances. You know, how, because you're spending a lot of money over there.

I mean, is it the type of thing that I think is very normal in marriages, where your wife is just not looking through every single bill that's going out? I mean, like, how do you hide all those payments? That's a very good question. The money is the hardest part about this. If I were, this isn't meant to sound arrogant, but if I were single, I could do what I want, wherever I want, however often I wanted to. But I'm not. So I have to hide some money. If you owned a business or you had volatile income, you're a salesman or some type.

You make a lot of money, one month, not much. You could easily hide money or a big bonus as well. But if you're a W2 type, even a high earning W2 type, there is a level of consistent income. You have to be able to show. And so just the way you get around is you hide some money here. you get a bonus and you hide some of it. You do this, you do that. And we've always had five or six different bank accounts anyway. And I'd recommend that for any marriage for a whole list of reasons. So I've just always had my own individual accounts.

So if I siphon off, you know, a thousand bucks here, a couple of grand there. Before you know it, I've got some money. And so, but the money is the hardest part. Yeah, I would think. Yeah, it's actually not the logistics and the undercover stuff. It's how do you hide the money? Yeah, because if your wife goes in and looks and like, what do they charge? it if you looked at your i mean could you put it on credit cards do you have to pay cash i pay cash

it's always cash okay that's not vimmo cash cash cash cash do everything else is traceable uh you see stories of dudes on vimmo hell no um yeah oh and you'll see providers that won't bin no i'm like no absolutely not cash and i'll give you a deposit on binmo but yeah of course but let me ask you this where is that where's all the communication taking place because there's got to be some texts going back and forth? Email. Okay, and you have a separate email account that your wife doesn't know about in an app that she doesn't know about? Correct.

And most of the women I've come across have an email address on something called Proton. Proton mail, which from my understanding of the server is in, guess where? Canada. And so they email back and forth on that. So that's protected. And in the communication, I need to say this, there's nothing ever discussed about prices, acts, everything else. If you do that, if you hit them up, say, well, you fuck me for $500, boom, fuck off, right?

They'll never talk to you again. Yeah. There is nothing in my phone, in my email box, anything ever, anywhere that has any details at all. Right, that's what I want to know. You drop dead tomorrow. No, yeah. And I'm your wife.

I get your phone and I'm like, oh, reminiscing, I just want to see picks of him and go through and just remember him. Like, I'm not going to come across any of this shit. Where is it? Where are those emails? You'll see pictures of puppy dogs and food and travel picks. And the women who've been doing this long enough, they know this.

If a guy hits them up, their first thought of law enforcement, their second thought, he's nude at this. And they're not interested, right? And from the flip side, if a woman's discussing specifics and everything else, it could be a sting. So we all know the rules here. Just say, hey, let's meet for three hours at 7 p.m. in the hotel lobby. there's nothing implied their rates are on their website you don't discuss the rates

if you ask the rates you're ghosted fuck off right right but I mean that email no no no but I still haven't got the answer like I know that you're emailing them and you're not saying any of the stuff but where is that email you're doing it from your phone do you have a burner phone?

Yes yeah either a burner phone or a burner email account yes okay so you have both of those going down yes yes and your burner phone where is that on your on your person when you're walking around always on my person.

Oh, okay. So if you get it across, let me tell you, there is something, I should get the name from my friend. A guy friend of mine told me about an app that they have out now. That looks like an app for something else

and you go in and like it's a place to house like all of like your stuff. And it has a password that you could only do. But it also has like a fake password. So if like your person wants to see and they're like put it in the password, you put it in another password. and it opens up to nothing. Yeah, it's like a whole undercover thing.

And I'm just like, oh my God, this is like so fascinating. But I'm like, they don't really advertise this because if they did, then women would know. So it's kind of like below the radar. But it really is. Yeah, it really is set up to be a place for guys or women to hide shit. But it really isn't. They can advertise if you think about it because like the word would get out. But it is set up in that way.

And I forget what the name is. I should find it. give it in the intro maybe. But anyway, let's get back to your first experience. So you switch over to preferred 411 and, you know, how much do you pay for your first girl and walk me through how the whole thing took place the first time? I think the very first time, I want to say it was $3 or $400 for an hour. This was 2014 or 15. Yeah. And she would, she was able to open to seeing new people because she was sort of new in the industry as well. That's how you can kind of get your foot in the door. And so I saw her.

She was, I say local, but from two or three cities away, but she would come here often. So that's sort of quasi-local. The point is I would never run into her at a store. Yeah. And so I met her. Like I said, was kind of nervous, but played it off. She was buried down to earth, very cool. I was surprisingly normal about it.

And it was just kind of like we talked for 45 minutes and then went down on her because that's kind of my thing. And so then we had pretty good sex for about 10, 15 minutes. And that was it. Like I said, it was surprisingly normal. And so that was, like I said, it was kind of nervous about it. But she had a great way of just being cool and not being kind of fidgety. And so like I said, I've seen her often since then, really. Got to be friends with her.

And so that kind of helped me get my feet wet, sort of speak. And she kind of helped me one of the ends and outs of the local area. Was she a 10? What did she look like? Are all the girls that you're paying this? Are they all 11s, 12s? Oh, no, probably sevens and eights, to be honest with you. Interesting.

Okay. Yeah. I mean, not to say that tens aren't out there. Don't get me wrong. But everybody has their, and I guess everybody's 10 as somebody else is six. Yeah. But just my personal preference, like I said, I like a certain A-drain, a certain body type, certain everything else. And she fit that to the wheelhouse.

So that's why I picked her. It wasn't random. And so she just kind of fit into my wheelhouse. Yeah, no, I'm just thinking, oh, hi, an escort. If this is this whole world, you would think that they're all like models and perfect bodies and that kind of a thing. That is out there. But a thing to realize is the people who last in the business and who make good repetitive money are the ones who bring the whole thing, the whole package to the table.

Yeah. It's not just about appearance. It's what gets the guy to come back time after time after time. Yeah, no, this is what I love that you're calling in to explain. Because like you said, most people don't really understand what the world is really about. Look at me. I'm like thinking that they're all super hot. I felt like Ray J.

When he talked about it, it was a lot of like famous porn stars on there that he met up with, that you could hire. And you do see girls like that on these sites. Yeah, he had those out there. also went back and listened. He had people in their 40s and 50s. Totally, yeah. And that he had he had, and he had, he saw once and that was it. Yeah. And so it's just like, what are you looking for? What's your thing? And like I said, the women that I've known over the years once they get comfortable and gotten to know me, they generally like what they do. And not to say that sex work

isn't work because it is. Yeah. It's like any other industry. Some people love their job. Some people hate their job. Some people like their job. I hear certain things about it. and some people are good at their job and don't like their job. So it's just like any other job, any other work. But at the end of the day, the ones that are successful, like any other profession, enjoy it. And they enjoy the people's side of it and they bring the total package to the table. Because if you run into somebody that's disinterested,

I don't care how hot they are to me. This doesn't do anything for me. Yeah, you want that girlfriend experience. I think that would be a big part of it. Yeah, if I can't talk to them, it's just, it's kind of like a first date. I mean, at first date, you either click or you don't. And so it's either. Why do you click with some person versus the other?

I don't know. But it's just, that's part of it. And so in my opinion, the ones I've seen over and over for years and there had been regulars more so than the other regulars, those are the ones that I remember. Right. And so now once you had that first taste of that first girl and you realize this is a place where you could go and, you know, hook stuff up all the time, like, did you start going crazy? How many people a year in the beginning would you see?

In the beginning, maybe three or four per year. And like I said, once I found somebody, I would stick with them for a while. Yeah. And then the one that I ended up being a regular. And this is the part of this industry that surprised me. As a man, you think this is just about the sex and everything else. And yeah, we're friends. Cool.

I like, I should have sex. Yeah. She passed away. Oh, you're kidding. And it broke my fucking heart. one of the girls in the beginning that you met up with? One of the regulars, yes. Yeah.

Oh, wow. How did she die? Suicide. Oh, really? Yeah, I haven't, I taped another guy. I haven't aired his episode yet, but he had a girl that he was seeing who was a dumb, and he really helped her and did a lot for her. And then he's telling me this story.

And then I asked something about her, and he's like, oh, she passed and she killed herself. And I was like, oh, my God, it was like devastating to hear, you know? And what surprised me, Kathy is I thought this was just about the sex, right? but I didn't realize how close I've gotten to her. And I'm kind of protected myself since that. I let myself get vulnerable. And we had a great connection. We'd known each other for years.

And another path and another lifeway, it may have been a different story for us. That's how much you liked her and connected with her. I did. And like I said, it completely broke my fucking heart. Now, how did you find out? Did one of the other girls tell you?

Because, I mean, what are they? No, I knew her in real world. And so we were, at this point, the regular is like, we all know each other's names. I would say that, but we're doing. And so, like, I was social media friends with her. And so then I saw that. And there were some other problems going on with her life.

And I didn't know how to reach out in real time, if that makes sense. And then she passed away. And the hard part for me is I couldn't tell anybody about it. I couldn't. Yeah, of course. You couldn't mourn. You couldn't mourn. How can even go to her funeral?

How do you know her? Well, right? I can't tell you that. So. Yeah. And so I just, it surprised me personally how. all emotional I got about it. But it taught you a lesson.

Tell me a lesson, yes. And I've kept it since then we can all be friends and that's cool. And it's not to say I don't care about my friends because I do. But I just kind of let myself get farther down the line than I should. Yeah, but maybe that was at the beginning because it was in the beginning. I mean, I think it's always a learning. There's always a learning curve no matter what you do in the beginning. Yeah.

Because at first I thought, oh, this is fun, this is cool. her and I clicked in real world and her fetishes and anything like that like I said probably I adored her and so like I said she died suddenly and I was like I said it worked my heart What are some of your fetishes

It's a quick left turn but what are some of your fetishes like that you were into let's get into some of the specifics and I love prices I love like to know you have to pay more for stuff you know Yes okay something I've learned about this industry I'm surprisingly normal and I've tried different things and I'm like I don't like that very much

Let's go back to what I like. And a good example is one of my early ones was her specialty is BDSNM. I've always wanted to try it. I tried it and just quite frankly, not for me. Yeah. And she's awesome. Like other women refer people to her. She's awesome.

Can't say any great things about her. I can't say any bad things about her rather. But it's just kind of not my cup of tea. But I figured like one of the fetish that I did have is I like hearing about what they do with other people while they're doing. The cuck fat. That's like a cuckled fetish kind of right? Or maybe a hot wife thing. Oh, yeah.

hot wave, yeah. Yeah. And so it just totally always, like that kind of started early. That was the woman that passed away. Just that's how we get into it. She would tell me about these things that she did. The debauchery, some of them were normal, some more funny. And I just light a bit.

I felt they were hot. And so that's just kind of what I think. And so of all the women that I've known, once they get to know them, I always ask them. I said, what's the most horrors thing you've ever done? And my God, the story is that they could write a movie. But they turn you on. Oh, yeah, oh, God, yes. Some of them are funny, but some them are hot, and some of them are just, they're great, great stories.

Like I said, they're just, I always ask them that and I always like to hear what I get back. But that's kind of what I found about myself. I'm some things I like, I guess the hotline thing is probably not mainstream, or maybe at this point. But the BBS and M thing, not my thing, anal, not the thing at all. And so I just kind of find, like, what I like and what I don't like. And I've always kind of known this, but I love going down a woman. I don't really care if she goes down on me. I know that sounds weird.

I like a good blow job. But I would pay to go down on a woman. Yeah, no, I know guys like you. That's like a pleaser kind of mentality. Some guys are just really like that. I'm good at it. I'm in control. I know what I'm doing.

And I love getting them off. That's just my wheelhouse, my thing. And I even pay for that sometimes. Well, isn't that what you're paying for with all these girls? What do you mean sometimes? You pay for it all the time. Yeah, but I joke with them. I'm like, you're getting paid to lay here and have an organ.

Where did I sign up for this? Yeah, what are the prices? Like, when you want to add in, oh, anal and you tried it or hot wife fetish or the BDSM, like, do they charge? Like, is it kind of like a la carte? Like, this is the price for the hour. And then if you want to add this on, this on, like, how does that work? It depends if they do it or not. Some of them just flat out won't do BDS and an anal or whatever.

And they kind of say that on the website, kind of don't. But if you mention it and they do it, there's an upcharge. a good example I have is the BDSNM thing one of my regulars in the Northeast she just told me that there's a very under the radar very high end very expensive BDSN provider that they refer them to

and you have to get double triple screen to see her and she kind of called her the Whitmy Beat Me lady but that woman from what I understand makes serious money really. It rarely has sex with any of the clients if at all and she makes very very serious money but that's like you would call in and say, okay, I want this, do you do it? The answer is yes.

Then you add on another, say, you double your hourly rate. If they do it at all. If they don't, they'll refer you to somebody who that's kind of their wheelhouse. How much do the girls that you typically meet up with, the regular, you know, not the Whitme, beat me lady, but the regular high at escorts. How much you think they're pulling in a year? They definitely making six figures at least? Oh, yeah.

One of my regulars at one point had 200 grand cash. Yeah. in a safe in her closet. She's like, holy shit, what I do with this? That's a very legitimate question. Yeah, totally. And I advise all of the women, they should all have job jobs. They should show income.

They should pay taxes, have health plan, whatever. Even if that job is you're a photographer or you're a consultant or sometimes, show legal income. But in her case, she had already had the money. So she doled out like 10 grand here, 15 grand there for repairs on her house and upgrades and stuff like that. And eventually bled through the money. So that was kind of her way to longer it. Yeah. She would find contractors that would take cash to do a job cheaper. But she had realized, and she was kind of like me.

If she gets money, her first thing isn't to go spend it, she would save it. So what if I like, this business doesn't have a good retirement plan. So I should save my money. And so before you know it, she ends up at $200,000 and $100 bills. Yeah. And so there's that. And so that was kind of fascinating to me. So I've helped other women along the way, okay, here's how you plan a little bit better with your finances, show some income.

have some benefits, health plan, so and so forth. You do remind me of that other guy that I spoke to that I told you had that one of his girls pass from suicide too. And he was before he he was actually an accountant, okay? And he talks about how he really was

like you. He became friends with these girls and he helped them. He would teach them how to manage their money and all these things and that's where he developed relationships the way that you do. How many girls are in your stable at like one time? pre-COVID was more normal i'd say three to five at any one time and that's a rotating

group and so like i would see somebody new for every now and then and if i like them they'd join stable for lack of a better time yeah if i didn't i just never see them again and just so some of my regulars would rotate out they'd quit the business they'd move uh life happens they would just move off course yeah that makes sense yeah and so nobody is in this for 50 years they're all in it for five years or ten years or whatever. And then life carries him somewhere else. Did you ever live out like a threesome fantasy, two girls at once, anything like that?

No, I tried to set up one of my regulars in the Northeast with her and another guy that wanted to do this, but the logistics just never worked out. Who was the guy? Like a guy friend of yours? A guy friend of hers. A guy friend of hers. Oh, okay.

So you wanted to do that like a threesome though with another guy and double team with her? and so she she had the guy but it just didn't work out we couldn't work at the logistics when I was in town he wasn't available blah blah blah and so really like I said in my

single days I did the two girls thing and I like it and I do it again but I just found those other fetishes that flip my switch Yeah well if you're a hot If you're into the hot wife scenario I think the guy The extra guy thing and watching that

That's going to get you more off than that I mean I've been very surprised to find out and I found this out to doing my show that I feel like a lot of guys like that MMF threesome more than the guys that want the FFM

ones, you know and I would have thought it was the opposite but talking to a lot of people I find that that's a very that's a big one. The guys in public will never admit to it. They're like oh man I'll never do that well okay dude like 40% of the population's into it. Okay. Let me tell you it's so funny because I and I've mentioned this on my other

shows because I have a lot of guy friends and I was always as open as I am on my show, I was always open with my friends. So people always told me what they did sexually. And I wasn't surprised when I'm doing my show. I'm like hearing about all these guys that want to watch their girlfriends fuck other people and I'm like, how come none of my guy friends ever told me that? But I think back to questions that guys had asked me and I thought like, wow, maybe when that guy asked me if my other boyfriend's dick was bigger than his, like I gave him the wrong answer when I said, of course not. Maybe he wanted to hear, but I think that guys are afraid to really put that kind of thing out there. Yeah.

You're right. Now, that question, I told you earlier that I posed to him all like, what's the most hoarse thing you've ever done? One of them to this is that same subject, did it with me. We were at, I did, I had an overnight. It was at a hotel and a major city. Yeah. And just, hey, let's meet at the bar. Yeah, and catch up, blah, blah, blah, right?

Well, she kind of knew my things, right? And so at one point, we see a guy at the end of the bar. And I'm like, see, you want to fucking? there was, I'm being direct here. And she said yes. And so we made it out like we were husband-wife. She would approach him. I would give him a nod to say it was okay, so on and so forth.

Then we took him up to the room. I watched. He left. And then I finished her off the rest of the night. And now did you join in or no? In that case, no, because he wasn't comfortable with that. Because to his perspective, we're just having some married couple, right? Oh, yeah.

Okay. So he won't come over that. So he knew the deal. I said he didn't want to three ways, so to speak. But he was okay with watching. I watched her blowing. I watched her fucking doggy style. That didn't last long.

And so after he was done, she came and everything else, he left. And just we fucked hard for the next like three hours. Yeah, that's reclaiming. That's a reclaim sex. I'd never done that before. And it was like I said, complete role play. Yeah. God it was hot.

Yeah. Now, did you have to pay? Like, does that, that's an extra charge? because now she's like having sex with somebody else? In theory, yes. I was paying for an overnight, so it was covered. Oh, interesting. How much is an overnight?

Depends who and where. It can be anywhere from three or four grand up to 10, 12 grand. But what's the most you've ever spent on a girl? At one time. Yeah. Three grand. Not over time. You don't mean in one time.

Like that overnight or whatever. That overnight, three grand. Three grand. Okay. Don't ask me how much total I've spent. I purposely didn't figure it up. I don't want to know. But so tell me some of like, tell me like your couple great girlfriend experiences.

Like what is the perfect one that stands out in your mind maybe? This is a great one. It's just the complete randomness of how it happened. One of my regulars was a flight attendant on one of the majors. I won't tell you which one. Okay. But needless to say, all three of those majors, Delta, United American, They're huge airlines.

They're 10 times the size of frontier or whoever, right? Yeah. They're massive, massive airlines. So I'm flying into New York, connect through Chicago, and you know how you board the plane, and you're supposed to instantly turn to the right and go get your seat, right? Yeah. Well, so I hit the plane, and there in the galley out of the corner of my eye,

I see a blonde woman, right? I couldn't quite get a good glimpse at her, but I'm like, she kind of looks like, kind of not, but I didn't know. There's no fucking way. This is too big of an airline. There's too many, and this is a rammed, She didn't live in either city, but she worked with that airline. I knew that.

So I sit down. I'm in first. And so I finally see her when she gets everybody kind this evening and she starts working the overhead bags. And I'm like, holy fuck, right? Wait, this is a girl from a website you remember. Or how did you ever stop with her? No, no, no, no, no, no. This is a regular.

Oh, this is one of your regulars. Yes. Okay. I'd seen her probably five or six times. We knew each other at this point. But we didn't really know a lot of personal information. Yeah, yeah, yeah. but once she made eye contact with me, A, she pulled it off like a pro, but B, right then she knew my name.

She knew my frequent flyer number. Oh, no. Yeah. And so we laughed at that. And you know she's a fucking flight attendant there. I mean, you're all. I knew that already. And I knew which I knew she was an FAA and I knew where she lived. Oh, you did know.

Okay. Yeah, yeah. I knew all that. Okay. I didn't know a real name, but then when she went in, I see it in her name tag on her FA outside. So at that point, at the whole pretense was blown. And she, it was awesome and completely random because the entire flight, she just flirted with me, leaned over, unbuttoned her show.

It just played up the whole slutty flight attendant thing, right? And so I hadn't planned on seeing her in that city because why would she be in that city? And so we just found a way to make it work that night. And just she showed up at the hotel in her flight attendant outfit with the scarf and the heels and everything else. And just had a night of just pot, dirty sex. It was just awesome because of how random it was. Yeah, and that is like a, that's like, that's like, someone else would want to role play that scenario. But it's kind of like the perfect roleplay that someone else would think about the fantasy is like a porn, a hot porn.

You have people in this industry? Have we ever run into somebody you know random? Like the answer is like 99% no. It's just so random. But like I ran into her on this, this, she happens to be the FAA on the flight that I'm on, right? Completely random. And I like I said, I'd seen her four or five times. So I knew her.

But then after that we kind of knew each. others names and hell she knew my life status. Yeah, she knew everything about you. She's still one of your, is she still one of your regulars? Yeah, the regulars kind of tapered off during COVID. Like I said, COVID really kind of clamped down all this. No business travel.

You can get out of your house. It's logistically hard. Yeah. You can't go. I'm working late tonight or whatever. No, you're in your spare bedroom 24 days a day. So, yeah. Like I said, I haven't seen some of these regulars in two or three years,

but if I ever get the chance to where they are again, I would in a heartbeat. And I still email them from time to time, just see how they're doing, check in on them, stuff like that. But that was probably the most random story I've ever had. There's other great stories. But if you made me pick one, I'd say that one. Give me another one. And then I have some questions. I'll see me think of another good one.

Another one I had, I knew she used to be a teacher. Now she works as like a major corporation. But like we were fooling around once and she let it slip that she started this while she was teaching. And I thought that was completely fucking hot. I'm like, so you were teaching third grade math or whatever. And you were doing this on the side. Yeah. And she told me that as we were fooling around.

And that just that was it right there. And I was like, oh, and another one, I forgot about this one. Another one of my kind of regulars, it was a regular for a year or two. She knew my thing, too, and we'll just believe we couldn't make this work. Like I keep saying, they didn't three people together. It's hard, especially the other guy doesn't want to be known that he's doing this. And so I get all that. She had a guy who set up for like two or three hours.

And I had, I told her, I said, I want to be scheduled directly after him. He was done at four. I was there at 401. I said, I don't want you to clean up. I don't want you to do anything. And so I even saw him leave the room. I walked in the room and that room smelled like, fuck. It was just, you could smell it.

Oh, my God. That's for you, the hottest. And it was her too. That was one of her fantasies, too. And so just threw her down on the bed. The bed was still soaked and just sweat and just fucking just, it was just the dirtiest thing we'd ever done. And it's her too.

She was very under the radar, so it was hard for her to do some of this. So it was just, that was her way to kind of act that out too. but and me too like I said we couldn't we get two dudes to do this together is difficult because there's a certain amount of secrecy about it so you don't want some third party of course no one wants to put a face in a name and when you're doing shit like this so it would have to be like that one scenario where the girl is going to get her guy friend not another guy who's paying

correct yeah or I would I would assume the girl girl thing is easy because they just got to get another girl you could hire yeah go pay another girl yeah and some in some women do that. Some women don't. They'll tell you if they do. And it's really, they may charge you for that. Maybe not, but they'll be upfront about it if they do it or not. Now, do you travel internationally so that you do this in other countries too, or is this strictly in the United States? All domestic. All domestic. Okay. And my question was going to be, though, before I was thinking this is how has this affected your marriage? Has it helped your marriage? You know, I know that people

are going to be mad if you say that, but I would, I would think maybe there's an aspect to that. Like, maybe it has helped because it puts less pressure. It has, and I don't know why they'd be mad. Yeah. I don't, because if this didn't happen looking back, I'm not sure if it would have survived. And if it did survive, I'm not sure to be in a good place. Right. And I don't want to say I'm doing the Lord's work by doing this.

Don't. Not that at all, but I just didn't realize how sex, just the act of sex, it was important to me. sexual side of it was. And when you took that off the table, I didn't realize how much it meant to me because I didn't a decent amount of sex when I was single. So it's not like I ever went six months without it, right? And then all of a sudden, I'm going four months without it, five months without it. And it became like a major problem that something was missing in my life. So I don't want to say it saved my marriage. But in some ways, it made it better. Yeah, no, I could

understand that. There was something that I saw once and it explained about why it is that sex is so. important in that release. There is something about the release of all that build up of combat men actually need. It's a need. A physical need. Yeah, I agree. And you talked about needs outside

of a marriage. Here's another great story from like she would see women, or couples rather, as much. One of her couples she saw it was the woman that paid and the woman was a very senior level executive at a very large corporation. And the woman just had, she had filled around with other women in college or whatever and just missed that

It was that the woman would pay, have sex. The husband got to sit there and watch, but no touch. She was adamant that I'm the one paying for this. I'm the one doing it. Oh, interesting. So that was it. That was the woman was paying for the process. Yeah, the woman was the client.

Yes, the woman was the client. And the husband got to watch. No touch. Just watch. Yeah, I can imagine. They must have had some great stories for you to hear besides the stuff that you did with them, right? Tell me some crazy stories. Actually, those are the best.

Like I said, I always love that to answer to the question. and what's the most worst thing you've ever done but I always have to stop and think and then they laugh and have a great story and like I said you can make a whole TV series about this and it's they've tried to do it but they don't get the humor and the comedy to it there is a certain humor to this and there's the personal

stories and that's what they all miss well listen I just had on Frenchie on my show and she's a girl in escort that was she went viral on YouTube do you know her she was on soft white underbelly and they talked to her and I listened to your episode but yeah and And now I think that what I liked about her was that she's very straight up and real and she really has so many stories and puts them out there.

And I think that that's why she went viral on YouTube because a lot of people didn't know those kinds of things. And she's talking from that perspective. She's dealing with guys, mega millionaire guys and what they're like and what she does with them and what they want. So it's always interesting. But it's interesting to get it from both angles. Like it's, to me it's interesting to hear from the man like you. like Ray J. I loved Ray J calling into my show. He called in more than once because It was super interesting. I didn't have someone at that level because like I said, it's it's it is expensive and most people will not be able to live in that world, but I think aspirational stuff is always great, right? That's what people are interested in. They want to hear about what they can never do. I went back and listen to his episode and Ray, if you're still like they're listening, you got a brother from another mother because the entire episode of nodding my head, smart.

smiling. He hit every nail on the head. I knew what website he was talking about before he even said it. Yeah. I'm like that. I believe every single word he said. Yeah, that's what you said to me. Because when you emailed me, you're like, I don't think anyone's ever really talked about. I said I actually did have a guy early on and I was excited when I got your email because I love those episodes. I like to have stuff on that I don't have on all the time. And this was, this is something that a not a lot of people speak about. And I think it's because a lot of people that are doing it, they have to be very secretive, a little bit more to lose if you're a high-end Fortune 500 CEO. So I don't get a lot of that on my show. And I think that it was always interesting.

So I was so excited that I had another Ray J. coming on. Yeah. And it's like I said, the personal stories I thought were the best. Like he's like, I can't go out my home. Neither can I. It's the degrees of separation are very, very few. And if I'm out to dinner with a woman, the odds of me seeing somebody else I know like 50%. It's not zero

But when I travel, it's pretty free and easy It's theology basically zero Unless I'm on a flight from Chicago To New York and there's a flight attendant Now let me ask you, would your wife, if I was talking to her, Do you think that she noticed any kind of change? Like, because if you're this guy that's at home Like begging for sex and you're not getting it

And you're arguing about it And then all of a sudden you just stop. Like what does the wife think? Like, oh, he must be fine or like? I would like to. say there's no way she has it, but there's always personal radar. I mean, you know what I mean? Like if you're always asking for something all of a sudden, you're not. How was, how does the other person perceive that? Because when you first started asking me the question, like there's no way

she suspects. But like I said, we'd have these serious conversations and all of a sudden we weren't having any conversations. That's what I mean. Yeah. And it has your sex life now. Is it the same as before? Has it just got worse and you don't care? During COVID, it got better, but it was rocky because the other part of my life was put on hold. That's what I mean, yeah. Because we're all locked in our houses for teachers. And so, but I basically explained to her, I think this is important to me. And you have energy for everything else, but you need energy to this.

And she's finally come around. That's more normal. And by normal, I mean, a couple times a month. And we've always had great sex. We just don't have it. Yeah, yeah. And so whenever we do have it, it's still good and it's still fulfilling. It's just the frequency.

And the frequency has picked up lately. and I think that's because we finally came to a head and maybe because I was being more difficult about it, to be honest with it. Because before, maybe I wasn't pushing it because I didn't need to push it. That's what I mean. I would wonder if she would be, if someone who's very, I don't know, distrustful maybe would notice. Some people are, it's easier for them not to see what's going on.

I would probably notice, like, why isn't he asking me anymore? What the fuck's going on? And I would say that question, anybody, if you haven't had sex with your spouse for months or years, they're not saying anything about it. And something's something else going wrong. I mean, if they have a medical problem, that's one thing. I know.

I'm sympathetic to that. But if they're just, if they're just disinterested, if they checked out, if they, whatever, that's a whole different matter. Yeah, there was Ashley on recently. He was telling me her husband. She's cheating on him. But he's just home. He doesn't jerk off.

He doesn't do anything. He doesn't fuck anyone else. I'm like, he's fucking something. I mean, come on. He's doing something. Yeah. Right? I mean, come on.

It's just, and it's, it's, It is, that's just the way that it goes. Wait, I had another question and I can't remember what it was. Oh, does anybody in your life know about this? No. That's smart. Not a soul. That's smart.

And that's very smart. Not one person has a deathbed secret, not one person. The only person was the woman that passed away. We figured out we knew about a thousand of the same people. Oh, really? And she probably knew more than anybody. But at this point, no. Right, you don't do that.

Yeah, that's smart. I think that one person, if you told me, oh, just my best friend, or I'd be like, uh-uh, not sloppy, that's sloppy. No, no, no, no. Not a soul. There was a really great article many, many, many years ago in GQ. I should try to find it. And it was like why men cheat or how men cheat.

And it was written by a man who cheated. And he cheated like you. It was, he was very happy at home. He was never going to leave his wife. He didn't want to fucking have an affair. And he talked about the way he did it, why he did it, and how it worked and why it worked and what it meant. And it was really great because it was very realistic.

And I really understood it. I should try and find that article. If I find it, I'll send it to you. It would really relate. It would be like the way you felt when you read, you know, heard Ray J's story, you'd feel like, oh, this article, yeah, this is me. And I like to hear from that guy because I think it's very, smart. To me the worst kind of cheater

is the guy who is fucking every girl in town telling his friends about it, doing it and she's going to be sitting next to people that know, like, I've had guy friends like that and I've always like, you're a bottom of the fucking barrel. Like there is nothing worse to do to your

partner that you really love than to have them sitting across from people that know that you're fucking other people. I don't know. It's just so rude. They're banging a Hooter's waitress or something like that and it's just demeaning and it's embarrassing. Yeah, and you bring her to hooters. Yeah. Yeah, it's just rude. And these guys that fuck their wives, best friends, I'm like, how do you think this is going to end?

That, right, that's where I mean. Like, you just can't put everybody in the same category. Not every cheater is the same. Yeah, I said it to start off and I know it sounds hypocritical, but I would never have an affair. I don't think I'm having an affair and I have never had an affair. Right. You see it as just that. It sounds strange, yeah, it sounds strange to say that in this context of our conversation, but that's how I feel. Well, listen, I don't think it sounds strange to any man. I don't think, I think any man understands the difference between sex and emotions.

I think what's really hard is for women to understand that. And there lies the big effing problem. And it sucks for women. I don't, and they're not wrong. I think we're just wired very differently. And I think we're always projecting. So if a woman, for a woman, if she's only going to have sex with someone that she loves, well, then if you have sex with someone else, and it has to be that you like them, because that's the only way she could ever imagine it being, because she doesn't just fuck for no reason, just to get release the poison like men do.

But agree, but at this level, there is a connection that is there. I don't consider an emotional affair, but there is a connection. And a good example of always has, like my hairdresser. I've followed her four or five different salons. I like her. She's my friend. Yeah. I pay her to cut my hair.

I would never ask her for a free haircut, so and so forth. But I like her. I enjoy the conversation and everything else. And so I'm having an emotional affair with my hairdresser. No. But there is that component, too. I don't want to go to somebody I've never met. This article was all about that too.

He talked all about that. He really cares about them. He has great relationships with them. He can't wait to hear what's going on with them when he sees them. Blah, blah, blah. Exactly. Yeah. But like I said, the woman I got too close to, that's where I knew that, okay, this isn't just sex as a man would see it.

There's another layer to it. And if I don't watch myself, I can get set down into that. Right. But you learn that time not to do that and you don't. And that, I think, is what's important because I think the biggest fear about someone in a relationship going and having sex, just sex with somebody else, is the fear that you would wind up like, it's the fear of abandonment that eventually that would lead to you leaving the other person that I think if you know for sure you're sticking around and it's just about that and there's no affair going on and that's never going to happen. which you hope it's not. That's, that everyone would be like,

that's fine. But I think you never know. There's always that doubt. Look, with you, with that one girl, it almost happened. So that's what's always scary about opening things up.

Because I think at the end of the day, we all, everybody has a fear of abandonment. You're with somebody. You love them. The last thing you want is for them to leave you. Yeah. So it is scary.

And to the point about men versus women, I think men do a better job of compartmentalizing their lives. can do one thing and not think about anything else that move to the next thing and not think about the past thing and they just don't bleed over to each other. So that's maybe why I and other men are better able to separate sex from whatever else in the life. So like what's just sex is just whatever. And I think that's why we're able to do it. You see that in other walks of life, not just the sex part of it, but men just compartmentalize better.

100%. Yeah. It's a very different thing. And that's why I said, I mean, you could understand why women don't feel that way, but I know that you could also understand the man that totally, why you see it that way. Like you keep saying it sounds strange that I'm saying this, but I think that half the people listening will understand the men. A lot of women won't. They'll be like, what a fucking hypocrite. You're a cheater.

Why would, how could you do that, you know, blah, blah, blah. So, but I understand it in my brain. It makes sense. It's, I think what's hard is what society puts on us and all these fairy tale fantasies of monogamy that come into play and that's a whole other fucking podcast. I agree. But I think that it's interesting in this and this is why I like to get those little backstories because I like to show different scenarios and show people what it's really like.

Here you are a guy that really does care about his wife because I've had the other guy who's not getting sex from his wife and he doesn't even like his wife anymore but he's still going to stay with her. I mean, you really, all the other areas of your marriage work and you're going to stay with her. and it was just the sex. You farmed it out. You figure out a way to do it.

You have your boundaries sat in place. You're not sloppy at all. You're very thoughtful about the way you do it. And you're doing it. And you're doing it with the high-end escorts with, like you said, is a whole other world. So I don't even know if I've just touched on little stuff here and there to get the whole story. Just the surface.

And people have asked me, do you feel this is an unsafe way to do it? I'm like, no, not at all. Tinder is riskier than anything in this industry. I promise you that. Oh, yeah. No, no, no. I think your way is much better. Yeah, you'll see guys meet a girl on Tinder,

have unprotected sex for a month, and think nothing about it. Yeah. But condoms aren't just a necessity of this. They're 120%. Nobody would even discuss it always. Yeah, that's good. That's a good disclaimer. No, I don't feel, I don't feel unsafe about it at all.

Yeah, listen, I think you're lucky. There's a lot of guys that are like, yeah, I only do Tinder because I can't. afford $3,000 for a, you know, a fuck. So that's the hard part about this. It's great. But you got to pay the play. It's, there's a price point to it.

And the price matters. I mean, you can go find an escort for a couple hundred bucks or two and but it's just not going to be what you think it's going to be. And I hate to say that and put it that way, but you have to be able to what you think, that nine or ten you think you're going to get. You can't just dial them up without being screened to go see them.

for an hour. That's not how this works. You've got to be double, triple screened, have a couple thousand dollars. You've got to be able to get your foot the door. Right. They're going to call your work. Yeah. And then just one thing. I didn't, I was lucky enough that I had another couple two, I think three or four providers. That's how I got in. But I'm like, you're going to call my office. And I was like, yes. But that's, it's, it's, that was a bar to clear. But once you cleared it, you're in the club, so of speaking. Yeah, yeah. And how long you've been doing this? Did I even I'll see that in the beginning because we're wrapping up now. About eight years.

I said two years of that, eight or nine, the two years of that were during COVID, so I don't know how you count that, how you count those two years. Oh, fuck those two years. I joke what that's what's going to get us back to normal. People are tired of sitting at home all day with the wife and kids in the other room.

And then the guys want to travel again for business if you get my drift. And so this will open back up, business meetings will happen sooner rather than later. But I think in some weird way, COVID and those locked down two years helped everybody in one way or another. You got to be a little closer with your wife and you had better sex with her during that time. But now it's business as usual.

Thank you so much for calling in and sharing. Thanks for having me. Yeah, no, I love this topic. I think it's super interesting. Yeah. If you want to follow up with more details, let me know. But I've enjoyed it. I enjoy your podcast.

You're great to talk to you. That's awesome. Thank you, David. What do we call you Crash Davis? Crash Davis. Davis. Davis. Davis.

Thanks so much for calling in. I'm going to probably post this next Wednesday, okay? Okay, let me know if you need any more background. All right, awesome. Thanks, Davis. Oh, thanks, Kathy. Bye. Bye.

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