Strictly Anonymous Confessions - 579 - Ed & Phoebe are Swingers who Recently "Came Out"

Episode Date: January 9, 2023

Ed and Phoebe, hosts of the Swinger University podcast, are swingers who recently came out and they called in to talk all about it. How did they meet and when did they start swinging? What are they into while swinging? And, when and why did they decide to come out as swingers? Tune in for all the details including their previous relationship history and how and why swinging came up early on between them, the rules they had going and how they evolved over time, the first swingers party they attended and exactly went down, the GILF gangbang they witnessed and how and why they were so turned on by it, the next party they attended and the 8 couple oral sex puppy pile they participated in, how they view their sexuality and how swinging helped them figure it all out, how Phoebe felt about going all the way with women when she first started swinging and how she feels about it now, the first time she performed oral on a female and why she loved it so much, the unwritten rule about guy on guy action and how and why that seems to be changing, how Phoebe enjoys watching men with other men, how they felt about full swapping in beginning, how Phoebe had reservations about watching Ed with other women and how she wound up getting into it, how they have progressed over time to being open to everything, how and why they use kissing as an audition for sex, why they prefer parties and cubs as opposed to meeting up with couples from apps, why they started the Swinger University podcast and what they talk about on their show, why they recently decided to “come out” and show their faces on Youtube, why they started an Onlyfans and what they post over there, the Costa Rica Take-Over vacation they are hosting and what will go down there plus a whole lot more. You can find all their links here: http://swingeruniversity.com  **To see anonymous pics of Naomi plus most of my other female guests + hear anonymous confessions + get all the episodes early and AD FREE, join my Patreon! It's only $7 a month and you can cancel at any time. You can sign up here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.patreon.com/StrictlyAnonymousPodcast⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and when you join, I'll throw in a complimentary link to my private Discord! MY BOOK IS NOW OUT FOR PRE-ORDER!!!! Strictly Anonymous Confessions: Secret Sex Lives of Total Strangers. A bunch of short, super sexy, TRUE stories. GET YOUR COPY NOW: https://amzn.to/4i7hBCd To Join SDC and get a FREE Trial! click here: https://www.sdc.com/?ref=37712 or go to SDC.com and use my code 37712 Want to be on the show? Email me at [e-mail] or go to http://www.strictlyanonymouspodcast.com and click on "Be on the Show" Have something quick you want to confesss while remaining anonymous? Call the CONFESSIONS hotline at 347-420-3579. You can call 24/7. All voices are changed. Sponsors: https://bluechew.com Get your first month FREE! https://butterwellness.com/ Try the Butter Wellness perineum massager and use code STRICTLY for 20% off your entire order Follow me! Instagram https://www.instagram.com/strictanonymous/ Twitter https://twitter.com/strictanonymous?lang=en Website http://www.strictlyanonymouspodcast.com/ Everything else https://linktr.ee/Strictlyanonymouspodcast Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome to the Strictly Anonymous Podcast. Strictly Anonymous Podcast. Conversations with online strangers. We place ads online. The Craigslist is definitely like the gift that keeps on giving. Real people respond. You go to Singapore or Thailand. You can't not do it.

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Hey, welcome to the Strictly Anonymous podcast with Kathy. If you want to follow the Strictly Anonymous podcast on Instagram or Twitter, follow the show at Strict Anonymous. If you want to be on the show, it's called Strictly Anonymous because I change everybody's voices. I change everybody's names. You could call me from a fake number, block it. You could, of course, email me from a fake email. I don't really care exactly who you are. want to hear your two stories. So if you have an interesting, naughty secret life that you live or just an interesting naughty life, even if it's not a secret, but you want to be on my show while remaining anonymous, you can email me strictly anonymous podcast at gmail.com or go to my website,

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catalog, you get everything moving forward, all episodes early and ad free, plus all the anonymous picks of all of my guests, plus Q&As and all the anonymous confessions that I've been getting. Like I said, it's $5 a month, and you could cancel it any time. The Patreon is patreon.com slash strictly anonymous podcast. Now, all of that information is in the description. Today I have on Ed and Phoebe. They are the hosts of a podcast called Swinger University. They talk on their podcast all about getting into swinging. They also have OnlyFans now too.

They talk about their whole journey meeting each other, how they became swingers, as well as towards the end. We do talk about how they got into the podcasting, how they recently came out. They were anonymous like me, and now they are out as who they are as swingers of this podcast. And they also just started in only fans where they do videos and all kinds of stuff over there. Like I said, towards the end, we talk about that because we go in chronological order of their whole backstory. We start off with how they met.

They had other relationships before each other. They got into swinging very early on. They talk about how they got into it, how they first started off at the parties. They explained exactly what went down at the first party that they. went to, they of course talk about like the rules and regulations they had at first. Phoebe talks about how she felt about hooking up with women, as well as like seeing Ed hooking up with women, how at first she wasn't into it. She didn't ever held him back from it, but she wasn't into it. And now so many years later, she's very down for it. She talks about

that progression and how things change for her and why. They talk about where they like to meet couples. They prefer meeting couples at swingers parties and swingers clubs. They explain why they prefer that over the apps. They talk about how, you know, some of the rules that they had in the beginning went out the window. That's very common. I hear that all the time. They're very down and open for a lot of things.

They're exhibitionists. So they really dig people watching them. They are now that couple that a lot of times starts the party. They like when people watch them. They also, like I said, started a podcast because they wanted to teach other people how to get into swinging and give. other people the information that they were looking for when they first started.

And that's what they do over on their show, the Swinger University podcast. I'll give a link to all of their stuff and their website, Swinger University.com, in the description so you could find their only fans, find them on Instagram, find their podcast. But anyway, I'm going to be right back on with Ed and Phoebe. Hi, Ed and Phoebe. Welcome to the Strictly Anonymous podcast. You guys are from a podcast called Swinger University. Yes, yes. I have to cop to something.

I, you know, my Instagram, I feel like I used your logo once as a picture. And what I wanted to know, I went back looking. I'm like, oh, yeah, I did. I wanted to know is that, did you guys get that logo made? Because A, it's good. And B, it does kind of look like Phoebe. Is that like your own creation? Someone made that for you guys?

Yeah, I'm actually a graphic designer. you are. And I've worked in the software industry for many years. But yeah, traditionally an art background. So you made your logo. I like it. I'm going to use it for your episode. It's great. But you guys have a podcast. What's interesting about you guys? We're going to get your whole backstory because you guys met and we're dating. Then you started swinging. You got married. You eventually recently a couple years ago started a podcast about swinging and swingers. And you were anonymous like I was. But recently you came out, which I feel like is such a great thing.

I know that there's a backstory to that. So why don't we start off you giving your little shoutouts to your podcast, whatever else you have, and then we'll get your story, and then you can give your shoutouts at the end. And I will include all the links to all your stuff in my description. Do you have a YouTube channel? What's your deal? Ed, do you want to go?

Sure, yeah. I'll rip through some of this stuff. So we started our podcast in May of 2019, and we'll get into some of the details about why we started and whatnot. But we've been pushing our content up to our podcast for a number of years. And then just this October, we decided to show our faces on YouTube. And so we have a YouTube channel now. and we're really stepping up production on the YouTube platform to, well, make ourselves a little bit more approachable. I think that was one of the big things with our faces.

In addition to becoming more visible, we're also doing only fans accounts now, too, which has been exciting and intimidating and a whole bunch of other stuff that comes with that. Oh, okay. Well, we'll get into that. It's going to be a part of your journey and your story. Eventually, right? It comes up that you do the only fans. But let's go back to like when you guys first met.

Now, are we talking 30 years ago and you've been together that long? Are we talking that maybe you guys met after you had other marriages? I mean, because I know that you did it. You started swinging when you were dating, correct? Correct. Yeah. Both been married, long-term relationships. I was, this is my third marriage.

I was in a sexless marriage right before this marriage to Ed. And I decided that's never going to happen again. And I wanted better sexual experiences. So I started dating and fucking around and having a great time, you know, I was in my 40s and free. So I started having some amazing experiences in my 40s. And I met Ed and we started dating. And I thought, wow, this guy really is, I don't know, I really like this one.

But I didn't want to get up some of that sexual freedom. So he started listening to a podcast called Sex is Fun. And there was a podcast on swinging. And so he talked to me about it. And I said, oh, you know, I've actually thought about that. His eyebrow goes up and he's like, oh, really? So that started the conversation. And then what happened from that, I'm a researcher.

I decided, well, I need to know more about this. Like, let's get into this. That sounds interesting. And so I consumed my days just listening to podcasts at work, on the way home, on a way to work, just trying to gather as much information as possible. And how long were you guys dating at this point? Do you remember? Like, was it very early on?

Was it a year into the relationship? No, it was pretty early. So we'd started dating in, I want to say February of 2012, and we started swinging probably six months. It's got to be six months. It was within the first year that we were dating. Yeah. Terrifying.

Yeah, but I think it's a better way to go. I think it's a lot harder to pull out a card like that when you've been with someone for a long time if it's like a secret desire or something. Whereas if you just, when you're starting out a relationship, It doesn't have to be on the first date, but I think, you know, early on is a little bit easier in a weird way. You would think it's the opposite. But because, you know, you don't know each other. So you might as well put on the table now.

Then if you pull something out after 10 years, someone might look at you like, who the fuck are you? You know, I've been with you for 10 years. I never knew that you wanted to be a swing or blah, blah, blah. So, you know, I think that there's definite pros to bringing it up earlier rather than late or at least being open about what you're in. to sexually. I'm assuming, Phoebe, it's because you came from that place of like no sex. What about you, Ed? Had you ever done anything that wasn't vanilla before this? Well, not really. And ironically, I didn't lose my virginity until I was in my 20s. So I got into college. Wait a second. How old? 21 or 27? Oh, early 20. So I was probably 19 or 20.

Oh, okay. When I lost my virginity. So, but I went all through high school with dating, but no sex. Not me out. That slut. I didn't have a blow job until college. Really? You got, you got lady before you got a blowjob?

Well, I remember my first sexual experience in college was a blow job. Mm-hmm. And it was in the dorms. And, you know, the phrase, there's no such thing. a bad blow job. Yeah. It wasn't the best blow job. It was pretty bad.

But it was my first experience, so I enjoyed it. Right. That's hilarious. So you were very vanilla too. And now Phoebe said she threw in there. I don't know if people heard her that she was always slutty. And I assume because I was in my 40s at one time that, you know, Phoebe, when you get out of that sexless marriage and you're in your 40s, that's when women are the horniest, right?

And so here you are newly single. You had no sex and now you're hornier than you've ever been. And, you know, so when you met Ed, you said when he brought it up that you had been thinking about it? Was that something that you had wanted to do previously? Well, yes. Prior to Ed, in between my marriages, I had been dating a man that was 30 years more than me. And I thought, guy, you know, he grew up in that time when swinging was really popular. So I knew about swinging, but I knew it in the, like the movie sense, you know, the keys in the bowl.

Everyone just shows up the house and you have this massive orgy, which always sounded really great to me, which is not how it goes down, but I would love it. And I thought, I brought it up to him thinking, oh, he's going to be all in. And he wasn't. And I was so disappointed. So I kind of just had this, you know, this on the back burner. And when Ed brought it up, I was. like, ooh. Yeah, maybe that's...

Yeah, then you realize, oh, this is why I like this guy. He was the real right one. He really was the right one for you. So what, how did your first experience go? And did you, let me ask you this real quick. Like, did you have, like, did you do a lot of talking about it beforehand and have any kinds of rules or boundaries set in place before you went to that first swingers party or club?

Oh, yes. Yes. talked about it a lot. And we had some rules. I think we may have even had the no kissing rule in the beginning because it felt too intimate to me. Yeah. Our rules were fairly basic because we didn't know what we didn't know.

And even though we've been listening to a ton of podcasts, where we were kind of, we were in that analysis paralysis phase where we had so much information swimming around in our heads that the reality of what it was going to be like, just seemed so intangible. Like there was no way we were going to connect those things. And finally, we just decided to pull the trigger and go to an event. But we were like, okay, for this event, we're just watching. Right.

We're just going to watch. We're going to go observe. It's like, you know, going to a performance. We're going to see the theater. We're going to see what happens. And then we'll process it. So we did. And we ended up at a lot of,

local party. They used to run them in the back of Craigslist. They don't do that anymore. And we were doing our research on you and read about or listened to you going through Craigslist and kind of getting people to come in. And we were like, gosh, that's a great idea. If only they hadn't shut that down. It was the best. I cast my show for years. Thank God when it went down, I was up and running enough that people were just emailing me and I don't have to go looking anymore, but you found your first party there. Yeah, found our first party on Craigslist. And it was interesting. It was a party called the Share Your Wife Party. So we were a little intimidated by that title. We were like, oh, God, this is going to be, this could be a total disaster. Yeah. We have no idea what's actually

going to happen. So we showed up and we kind of stood in the corner for probably the first half hour, 20 minutes. We met another couple there who seemed safe. So we huddled together and kind of commiserated and introduced ourselves. They'd been swinging a while ago and had kind of been out of it for a while. So they kind of gave us a little bit of their backstory. And to describe the room, basically it was like a junior high dance, but with really bad porn playing on the TV. Oh, my God. hilarious. Everybody was kind of just. sitting around. It was dark. It was weird. Very awkward. Nobody was engaging with each other. And then all of a sudden, somebody burst through the front door. Oh, and it was like 20 bucks to get in.

So it was like super easy to get in. And there were a lot of single males. So all of a sudden, door bursts open. A couple comes in and the woman basically just starts stripping her clothes off and going upstairs to the loft. we knew at that point we're like oh we think the party's going to get started so we're like let's follow them we get up there she's naked she's on the bed they're having sex there's a whole ring of guys around the bed they're all jerking off there's an older woman who's oh probably in her 70s easily in her 70s she was kind of like a hot wife situation so her husband husband was in the background watching and college guy after college guy after military guy was lining up and having sex with grandma.

Wait, so this was like a gilf gang bang? It was a 70-year-old woman was the one that was like the girl? Yes. Well, no, there was a second girl. Oh, right. There was two. Three-sum on the bed. Okay.

And grandma. And they were, everybody was having fun. Wow. We were riveted, just fascinated, watching this whole thing. sounds, the smells, like you could smell sex. And we were really close to everybody, right? Because almost everybody in the party was piled around the bed watching. And we eventually got kind of crammed into a corner and there's a leg kind of like moving right in

front of us, you know, the kind of doggy style or on her back and the leg was just flying around and Phoebe was terrified that we were just going to get sucked onto the bed. And so we were like holding each other watching all of this like super excited, but also very nervous all at the same time. So like emotions, adrenaline, everything was going like all at once. We literally sat in the car afterwards for about 20 minutes in silence, just trying to process everything. Oh my God.

I thought maybe you were going to say you went into the car and then you just like couldn't keep your hands off of each other and had sex. I mean, were you supercharged up and horny from it? Like, or was it almost too much information? We were, and I think we went home and had sex. We didn't have sex in the car. But definitely a little bit of both, like really horny from having seen all of this stuff, but also like just overwhelmed.

Yeah. Yeah. I've never seen live sex other than porn. And the porn I haven't seen was gross or not interesting. And this was just, I couldn't believe my eyes. It was phenomenal. I was instantly turned on by it and needed more. And then did you continue to go to that party

or did you start going to clubs or both? No, that was the first and last of those parties that we went to. The next one we went to was from a local venue, Allures, and they had a glow party. and that was probably our first actual sexual contact with other couples. And one of the kind of the high bars that got set for many years to come in terms of experiences, just an amazing night. So Phoebe was on our period.

We knew not much was going to happen because of that. And nobody was playing. the playroom. So we, and this was kind of our MO for many years where we would kind of just kick the party off. So we'd go in, we're a little bit of exhibitionists. Just a little bit. I mean, that's why we do a podcast in some of the years. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That's funny that you became that person right out of the get-go, the people that start the party. Yeah, and I think it was mostly because we didn't find a lot of people we were attracted to in a lifestyle. At that time, the demographic was. much older than us and we hadn't we hadn't gotten comfortable playing kind of outside of our particular group and you spend the money and you take the time to get ready I mean this took hours you know to put myself together and you get there and I'm like I want to have a good time right right this is what I'm here I know I'm going to have a good time yeah it's a sex party let's

see some sex yeah so we got on the bed we were playing next thing you know there's another woman who wants to play with Phoebe's breasts. Then there's a couple across the room that's given us the eyes and the come hither fingers. All of a sudden, we have this realization that there's eight couples and we're all doing like oral sex around in this circle all at the same time. Wow. It was amazing.

And like almost no verbal communication. It was all kind of eye. contact and nonverbal consent. Amazing. Just absolutely an amazing experience. And was that all like with each other, just within like you with her or were you guys all swapping and stuff like that? We swapped, I think, with two other couples.

It wasn't, you know, everybody didn't swap with everybody else. Of course, but there was you guys. This was your first time, though, that you guys were getting down with other people besides each other. Yeah. Yeah. It was that puppy pile situation on the bed, which I really, really love. Yeah, the woman that we were interacting with, we were mostly interested in her.

She was super cute. Our nickname for her was Marianne for many years because she was kind of like Marianne from Gilligan's Island. Oh, yeah. Just super cute, never saw them again. I know. It's one of those unfortunate things that happens in swinging where you meet a couple once and you probably never see them again. Right. it's true now wait now phoebe were you down to get with women were at like what do you or like how do you

like how do you label yourself sexually or are you into women phoebe and what about you at are you open or are you just like strictly with women yourself i was straight at that time okay that's how i labeled myself and i found a lot of frustration in the lifestyle with all the definitions of it being by, black on the waist up, selectively buy. Yeah. I mean, the list goes on and on. And at one point in our journey, I was having a sexual identity crisis because I found like I had to reassess where I was with my sexuality and I didn't want to. And Ed kept saying, well, you love kissing women and you like touching them. You must be by. And I'm like, I'm not by. Right. And I didn't want

the label and and it and it and it took several years to to just go okay fine whatever what the fuck I'm bye you know but and and it really honestly took that one person telling me this is a woman she goes well you know when you're when you're kissing other men and you're with other men thinking you know looking at other men you don't like all men do you and I go no she's like well it's no different with women just because you like one woman doesn't mean you're you like all women and just because you want to label yourself five doesn't mean you love all women and want to have sex with all women it's the same thing with men as with women exactly some of the pressure off because i didn't understand that right and so i just started just experimenting mostly with kissing

and soft swap and gosh we're what 11 years into the journey now and i've and i think i've had my my third oral experience of going down on a woman. And the last, this was like two months ago. Oh, wow. The best. I mean. Really? After all this time.

Yes. Because awkward, you know, I'm with, I know how to handle a penis. I know what to do with a penis. Right? I don't know what to do with a vagina. I don't know what a woman like. But you would think 11 years, it would. was just till recently that you were like,

oh, I like this. It's right here. I'm going to do it and I fucking love it. And all this time you've been passing it up for the past 11 years. Yeah. Interesting. A lot of kissing and breastplay and kind of, you know, fondling and touching. Women are very

soft and it's very nice to touch them. But yeah, the oral thing for Phoebe's been pretty recent. Yeah. And it's mostly just me feeling awkward and not knowing what to do feeling a little self-conscious. I mean, I've had, I've had women go down on me, and it was amazing. So I was like, wow, women are great and horrible.

So because I had had that first, I thought, oh, God, I can't, I can't do that. So far do I. Yeah. I thought, well, how am I supposed to do that? Now I have to do that, right? Right, intimidating, yeah. Yeah. So I just, I recently, I just jumped in and it was, it was awesome.

actually made this woman come. Her legs clamped around my head, batted my ears, and I felt her shudder, and the power in that moment of giving someone pleasure was the greatest high ever. Yeah, that was, that was a highlight of 2020. But wait, what about you, Ed? Because I know that there is a lot of stigma attached to guy on guy action, even in the Swiner community, which would you, you would think, if any place, people would be super open. It's there. But I hear from a lot of guys that are into guys in that world, but you just really can't cop to it. You know, where do you stand on that?

Yeah. So it's interesting. When we first got into the lifestyle, there was that rule. It was an unwritten rule. You never put it on your profile. you didn't talk about it. But if you happen to be in the right situation with the right people, you could kind of let that freak flag fly.

And people were into it. So we'd been to a house party where the host had let it out that he was by, and there was another attendee at his party. And there was two guys going at it, giving each other oral. And Phoebe was fascinated. I loved it. It was very interesting to watch that dynamic and to see how that played out.

And I'll just get it out there. I identify as straight. So I've had some experiences with men, but it was very casual and not, I wouldn't even qualify him as sexual. But I definitely can appreciate an attractive man. It helps me for shopping for couples with, with, And I, for sure. Yeah.

Because I know what she likes and I can, you know, kind of weed the people out that I know she's probably not going to be attracted to. But what we've noticed recently, that party and more and more people are actually starting to put it in their profiles. So we're seeing it on most of the Swinger dating sites where they actually put it in their profile that they're by. And we were on the Bliss cruise this last November. We were in one of, we were in the big playroom in the salarium.

And there were two guys, big puppy pile of people, two guys performing oral sex on each other right there in the playroom. Never seen that before in such a public place. And it was great. Like when we walked by, we were like, good for them. That's awesome. Yeah, right on. Why not? I think it has to, do you think it has to do with the demographics of, you know, the people?

because you have the younger generation now coming into the world. I feel like it's just an outdated kind of a thing. Yes, yeah. And we've seen that. The younger generation, they're out. They don't care. They're all about expressing who they are. And even in media with the body images.

You know, you've got Victoria's Secret and Rihanna with our Savage X-line and Athleta, all showing different body types and that self-love of who you, you are in that moment and where you're at just and and so people are really starting to just come into their their own their confidence and love love who they are and where they're at and feel free to express that right and you're seeing it in your world too that it's getting more open as well yeah definitely and I think it's it's not only the younger generation too but because of the portrayals of sexuality, because they're becoming more open, when you have shows on television that are basically going, look, gay people aren't any different than the rest of us.

Like, why is there such a stigma about this? It's open doors, I think, for a lot of people to be comfortable with whatever their sexuality is and say, you know what? I like having sex, period. end a story. Like I don't necessarily care what gender the person is that I'm having sex with. Yes, it's definitely helpful. I mean, listen, I have a child, a young son, and we watch TV shows. I watch one, you know, for him. And I'm like, my son's not going to, if he's straight, he's not going to feel like the norm. He's going to be like, how do I come out and tell everyone I'm straight? Because every show we watch, it's only guys dating guys, girls dating girls. You know, I mean, it's just so different. Yeah, exactly. It's so different than when we grew up.

And I think that that's great. So now you guys, were you open to full swapping? Were you really interested in seeing her with other men? And Phoebe, were you interested in seeing him with other women? I mean, what were your guys take on that part of things? Yeah, that's kind of how the journey started. Yeah, Ed was way more comfortable watching me with other people than I was watching him. Yes. That took a while for me to get comfortable watching him have sex with someone.

So I would primarily just focus on my experience, even though we played side by side on the same bed, I primarily focused on my experience and I didn't really look over. I would touch the other woman and, you know, Ed would reassure me. But visually, I had a really hard time. Looking over. You know, just, yeah, it was, you know, it's that old programming that it's not okay, right? Because I grew up, I went to Catholic school. So, you know, in a household where there's no hugging, no physical expression of love.

Sex was done in the dark. You didn't talk about it. So, I mean, to go from that to sharing your partner was like I still had old programming. Right. That was really locked in there that said, that's not. okay. So only until gosh, I don't know, about four, five years in, did I start to really enjoy that? Actually, I started to get okay with it, but until about the last two years, I actually really like it. And I've been experimenting with just sitting back and just

watching. Yeah, that's interesting. And, you know, I love that you bring that up because I have to tell you what I love about YouTube for my show, and I'm sure you get this too, is that you get the comments and you get the conversations going over there. And so I love YouTube for that. But I have to tell you that I have a lot of quote unquote hot wives or, you know, the couples where they're open and the girl gets to fuck other guys. But she's not into the guy being with other women. You know, and they're not as far along in their journey maybe as you guys, maybe 10 years, they will be okay. But it's more so I hear that the guys are okay and the women aren't. And the comments are always like, that's fucked up and that's not. Fair. But for you guys, what's interesting is that you didn't look and you weren't into it, but you allowed it to happen. You were okay with that, which is something different that I've heard. You know, I hear all kinds of stories. This is why I love talking to. I could talk to 100 swingers and every story is going to be a little bit different. So you're unique, Phoebe, in that you didn't want to see it because you felt like it might bother you, but you didn't hold him back. No. Yeah. No. We had a conversation very early on when she was uncomfortable. And I explained. I was like, look, I'm okay if you're going to play and I'm just going to watch for a little while.

Yeah. But at some point, I'm going to want some candy too because I can't just watch forever. So I was going to give her a little bit of runway to have some fun and kind of get warmed up to the whole idea. I grew up in a completely different household where. sexuality was open. My parents walked around naked. We went to new beaches. I remember being a kid and going to like hot tub parties with friends and everybody was naked. Like nobody bothered with swimsuits. It was just normal. My dad was an artist. Oh, okay. Maybe your parents were swingers too. You know, that thought has occurred to us so many times and it's a lot of speculation on our part.

could have been. He was in the military back in the 70s, so it's quite possible. Yeah. So I was always really comfortable watching Phoebe because I love watching her have orgasms. I don't necessarily have to be providing them. She could be masturbating. She could be with another guy or a woman or two or three other people. It was great for me because I just enjoyed watching her have a good time.

and we'd started off very much soft swap. Eventually, I think we finally figured out, you know, what is this whole like full swap, soft swap barrier thing? Like, why do we have this artificial wall? You got a cock in your mouth. What's the real difference there? And we had kind of an epiphany one day. We were like, you know what? Let's try it.

If we don't like full swap, we can always go back. Right. And we met a nice couple. we had a great time with them and now we're open to any experience. We like soft swap, we like full swap, just watching. For us, the experience is always so different with every couple that it doesn't have to be just like straight to penetrative sex.

So we're one of, I think one of the few couples in the lifestyle that are open to everything. A lot of people we see in their profiles, they're like, look, if you're not DTF, just keep going. We're not soft swap. We're past all that. Those were like training wheels days. And we're like, it's still fun to watch.

Right. This is still sex. Yeah. Yeah, I hear from those couples. I mean, everybody is very, a lot of times people are very specific. One thing I do always hear, and it sounds like you guys are the same, is that people do go in with a lot of rules and regulations and boundaries. And they quickly, sometimes very quickly, fall to the waist side. Like, you guys said you had that kissing rule, but did that fly?

out the window. That's always one of the first to go for people. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. It did. It went out the window. That one was actually a little more challenging for me. I was a little, I know it sounds strange saying this, but it was less intimate to give someone a blowjob than to kiss them. Oh, no. I think any woman understands that feels the same way. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Something about the face and the And honestly, that's where it all starts. That's where all, that's where the magic starts to happen. And we learned very early on that, that, you know, if you're, if you're not a good kisser,

you don't know how to kiss or you don't know how to follow someone's lead while you're kissing, like in dancing, then it, then you're not going to be able to follow instructions well in bed. Yeah, that's true. I've had that experience time and time again. If you can't take directions and you, you know, while we're kissing, or if I'm giving you, you know, little bits of information and you don't follow that, we're not going to have sex because it's just not going to go well. Yeah.

We often consider kissing as kind of an audition. And so when we're flirting with a couple and kind of out on the dance floor, if there's a little bit of kissing and it's really bad, we're like, wow, it's so nice meeting you. We're next. And we will very quickly transition to something else. So now kissing is very important. It is very important.

It is. And, you know, our rules would change sometimes mid-play, where we would literally, we're on the bed with another couple. And, you know, we all kind of look at each other. We start to have a conversation. We go, you know, well, we didn't, you know, we didn't start this evening, you know, experience. we would do, you know, X or Y, whatever the rule was, you know, that we were going to break.

And Ed and I would look at each other and we'd look at the other couple and we're like, well, yeah, let's experiment. Let's do this. But if I feel nervous, I'll let you know when we need to stop. And I just need to kind of take a breath to kind of process a little bit of what's going on. But I'm fine. I'll just let you know. And so being able to have that open and honest conversation with a couple was challenging but necessary in order to get through it.

And it's nice. I mean, honestly, the fear was people were just going to be rude and reject you, you know, when you're feeling vulnerable in bed with them. But they're not. Right. The singers are the nicest people, honestly. They really are. And we found that the couple that you're having that conversation with in the playroom

or in, you know, the hotel room or wherever it is that you're having your experience, if you start that dialogue and say, look, I may pull the rip cord because I feel uncomfortable. They go, oh, good, because I want that option too. Yeah. Right. In a sense, you've opened up that ability for people to be honest with you and not feel like they got ambushed or they're stuck in a situation. They have to basically take one for the team. Right.

Right. Which is terrible. You don't want to do that. we've all done it, but try not to do that very often. Well, you, I mean, well, what about you then? So when he said to you, Phoebe, like, listen, you know, you're going to start be playing with some guys and that's cool with me. And I know that you don't really want me to be with other women, but eventually I'm going

to want to. I mean, you know, how did you feel about that? And then what was that first experience like where you were like, okay, like now's the time. I mean, how did you make that transition? Oh, gosh, I'm trying to remember. I think it was just experimenting with that other couple. I think I don't know if we actually, we didn't actually do the hot wife scenario in the beginning. We always played together.

So initially, that's what I wanted. and even though he said it was okay, I felt guilty not allowing him to have that pleasure at the same time. I felt like I was holding him back. So even though he was giving me that gift to go forward, I couldn't do it because I wanted to give that gift to him just as bad. Right. So we didn't move in that direction.

we needed more time to talk it through. I needed more time to kind of process my emotions and thoughts about that. And then when we were ready to go in as a couple, that's when we did and had that first soft swap experience with a couple on a bed. And now so many years later, you're not only okay with it, but turned on by it. Yes. Yes. It's very sexy. Now you like to watch like a little cuck queen. I've had some cuck queens on my show.

And I'm like that was like the first time I started to hear about that. You know, I mean, it's like a new kind of term. But and then, you know, once one person calls in, I'll get like 20 other people. And I'm like, oh, a lot of women do enjoy this. And maybe some of them, like I was like thinking a lot of times people are going to listen and be like, oh, maybe I'm that way. And I like that too. I mean, look, you didn't even know that about yourself. You figured it out as you went along.

Yeah. Yeah. And you, and you, yeah, I guess it was just a progression, honestly. And as you had, as I have had multiple experiences, I don't always need to have a cock. I don't always need to be, you know, in the puppy pile. It's nice to, I discovered, to just sit back and watch because you get to see so much more. When you're in the mix, there's a lot going on, and it's a little like ADD. You're trying to focus on your experience, but then you're like visually distracted over here and visually distracted over there, which is great. But it's a bit challenging to manage all of that visual stimulus. And I'm highly stimulated by, you know, my visual. I'm very visual by nature. So going to a mall is like terror for me. I get so overwhelmed.

I have to look at everything. I like, you know, all the colors, all the people, all the, I just want to take it all in. So now having to sit back, you know, wanting to sit back and take this in is really nice and pleasurable. And some of this came about because of situations where maybe you weren't interested in anybody in the room. Yeah. And you were like, well, you know what? At least I'll get the silver lining. I'll get something out of this.

I can observe and I can watch other people have fun. Yeah. And I remember one of the first experiences that we'd had like this, the woman that I was playing with was, she was very into me. We've played with them before. And it's actually a little upsetting for her husband because of how much fun we have. But she and I were on the bed and going at it. And we realized like mid-whatever.

that everybody in the room was watching the two of us on the bed. It was fantastic. Like we were so in the moment, we didn't even pay attention. And of course, I kept checking in with Phoebe to make sure she was okay. She was like, oh, yeah, have fun. This is great. And she was just kicking back, watching the whole thing. It was, it was fabulous.

It was a great night. And now, so do you guys, you're like going to, you go to swingers, clubs you mentioned, parties, cruises. Are you strictly in the lifestyle? Do you, are you also on apps like meeting a couple? outside of the clubs and stuff? Yeah, we are on SLS and Cassidy. Those are big in our area.

Right. And we use those mostly just for finding out where the house parties are in the clubs because we really like meeting people in person. We have done those dates, you know, dinner dates or coffee dates, whatever, but in the past they haven't really panned out. It is hit and miss. It is hit and miss.

So, you know, when you're at a party, there's usually someone for everybody, right? Right. And it's connecting. It's really the networking thing. It's like sales. You know, there may not be anybody there you want to play with, but you met another couple that also has a house party somewhere else, and then you get on their list. Right.

Right. And now you've got another option. So it's all about a networking face-to-face. And we're also really in favor of meeting people face to face because profiles are so one-dimensional. Not everybody can write well. Their feelings and their personality doesn't always come through in their profile. The photographs are bad. Most people are not good photographers.

Most of the time, there's not even a picture of the husband in profiles, which is one of our big pet peeves. One of the things we talk about all the time in our podcast, even for normal vanilla people, like dating profiles, people are terrible at marketing themselves. So we got really good at crafting our profile and really making it appealing to people. But we also realized that most people didn't do such a good job with marketing themselves and talking to them face to face and watching their emotions. and their expressions and hearing their humor and engaging with them worlds apart. Make them more attractive.

Yes. Totally. People that you see a picture and you're like, eh, they don't really do anything for me. But you need a person. You're like, wow, that person really is doing stuff for me. I need to like, yeah, we need to get together. Yeah, I always look at people on TV that way. I'm like, I try to think of it backwards.

like, you know, this person like, oh, he's like, he's like hot to me, but I bet you if he was on a nap and he, there was just a flat picture of him. I would have never chosen because you don't get anything from a picture. I totally agree with you guys. Let's talk about your journey into the whole podcast world because, and also how you went from being anonymous to really coming out. I mean, that's like a very big decision. You know, why, first of all, did you start it? You did it when in 2019 you said you started it? Yeah, yeah, 2019.

We got really frustrated with, well, you talk about it and you're going to. Yeah. So we started listening to podcasts, right? So we were steeped. I mean, we listened to hours and hours and hours of all of the big podcasts that were out at the time. Yeah. And what we experienced was, one, there was a lot of conversation and a lot of the typical podcast stuff where people don't get to the content until way to, late into the podcast, which was frustrating for Phoebe in particular because, you know, if the TV

shows boring and doesn't catch her attention, she's changed the channel, she's on to the next thing. She did the same thing with the podcast. So what we were also finding, though, was a lot of the podcasts didn't help people get started. So they didn't have like, hey, this is how you start. This is how you progress. These are the specific situations that you're going to get into as a swinger and how you navigate those specific things. In a sense, what we wanted to do was almost a masterclass in getting started in swinging. So less about getting to know who we are and more about this is how you succeed in the lifestyle.

This is how you get started. This is how you meet people. These are some tips and tricks, very practical, hands-on. concise, here's some facts. This is how you do it. And we like that. We know that's not everybody's cup of tea, but we think it's very valuable to be able to go, hey, I can look up on Swinger University a specific topic, go right there and learn about that so that I can get through that first event or I can you know I'm struggling with BV or I want to know like where do I finally swing or close like where do people do it so we've got episodes that talk to a very specific

aspect of swinging in order to get people started in order to get them through that whatever that next hurdle is that they're going through in the lifestyle yeah no I think that's smart because people are always emailing me looking for that kind of information and I'm kind of like listening to my show or, you know, but I love when I do have guests on that do that because I think that there are a lot of people out there looking for that information. And, you know, listen, Phoebe had mentioned early on that when you guys brought up swinging, she went and did a deep dive and she was like Googling, you know, I'm like that kind of person too, but most people aren't, you know, so they want to be spoonfed the information. They don't want to go spend hours Googling about it. You know, they just want the fucking, give me the five best tips you. have for swinging, you know, tell me exactly how to do it. And so I think it's great that you offer that for people. Yeah. And that, that, that is right in my wheelhouse organizing information. That's like, with my communication background and a researcher, I, I love gathering all that, condensing it down and packaging it so it's easily digestible for people because we all have busy lives. So I just do it because it's fun for me.

And I know it will help other people. And so that was also, you know, what helped us put this podcast forward. And what we've noticed, because you had asked about why we finally came out, and it was kind of twofold for us. One, it was marketing. It helped us to be presentable. And seeing a face and associating a face with the voice, people could connect with us better. And we also realized that we're trying to destigmatize sex and swinging and make it not taboo and not naughty and dirty.

I mean, maybe a little naughty and maybe a little dirty sometimes. But it's not something to be ashamed of. And yet here we were being anonymous and not showing our faces. And we struggled for probably a year. So we were on a cruise and we talked to some long, old school podcasters, pen and page from Swinger Diaries. And we had dinner with them. It was a great conversation.

And they asked, just out of curiosity, why aren't you out? What was the decision for you? And we were like, well, one, we're kind of afraid of what would happen with our outside lives, right? Our normal Danella lives. Is it going to affect our jobs? Is it going to affect our families? and for the next year, we kind of stewed on it and it processed and we thought about it and we talked about it, kind of like everything that we do.

We do a lot of thinking and talking and communication with each other in order to get through stuff. And we finally said, you know what? My parents won't care. Your mom won't be in any of the circles, you know, six degrees of anything to find out. Right. To find out. So probably wouldn't find out.

Although if she did, it would be terrible for her. Devastating. The old school Catholic would kick in and we're going to hell. But my kids are all grown up. We have jobs that don't have that in the policy where, yeah, you know, we would get fired. And that was one thing I looked up right away. You have a whole ethics clause. Yeah.

And so we finally just said, you know what? What? Why not? Let's do it. Let's come out. We don't think our lives are going to implode because of this. And so far they haven't, but we also haven't gotten really big yet. So who knows?

The implosion may come. But so far, it's been really positive for us. And when we were on the Swinger Cruise and when we've been at events and we've worn our T-shirts and stuff to kind of market the podcast and to get people to approach us because we like meeting people. Like we want to hear their stories. learn about them, just like you, figure out how they tick. How they do it.

Yeah. What struggles did they go through? Because that helps us to, one, better understand our perspective, but help other people who are struggling with those same things. And the response that we've gotten from us coming out has been phenomenal. Like, people will walk up to us and talk to us and they're like, we love it. It's great. Appreciate you guys doing that. And it's been all positive so far.

Yeah, that's great. And then, I mean, did you have like an audience? I mean, and it also is a smart way to get people over to your YouTube channel, right? I mean, that's just a, you know, because YouTube is visual. I mean, I'm anonymous on my show. So on YouTube, I'm like, how the fuck am I going to do it? Because my YouTube channel was doing good. I'm like, oh, I want to do some videos.

So I just, I don't know if you saw, but like on my YouTube channel, I do like my torso shot. I mean, it's kind of thirsty and funny and it kind of works. but it's like, you know. Yeah, yeah. I love it. We did notice that, yeah. Yeah. But I think that that's great.

Yeah. Yeah, you have to have something visual, something that people can connect to. Yeah, we had a few conversations because I have a graphics background and I'm really good with software and visual production and doing the video editing and whatnot. So I could think of all kinds of different ways to kind of mask the faces and, you know, do the witness protection program, you know, mosaic filters on people.

We were going to do like little animated cartoon heads for a while. And I was like, you know what? All this stuff feels really corny. And being a visual person, cropping my head off or cropping Feeby's head off as an artist and a photographer, it really bothered me. Like it violates all of the rules for composition. For sure. Yeah. Yeah, I get people like, your camera's too low.

I think you positioned it. I mean, that's not the majority of people, but every now and then I'll get someone like that. I mean, most people know by now that's my thing, but, and because my show is called strictly anonymous. I became anonymous by accident, I have to say. It was only because I thought my show would suck. I didn't even know it was going to be about sex.

It was like everything happened sort of backwards and it just kind of came together. And then it just kind of worked. And now it really worked. So I'm always like, you know, there's a price for my face. I will eventually probably come out because I hope I've become big enough to do it. But at this point, because it really in a weird way for my show, because what it's about, it's not about me. It's about the other people anyway.

And it is called strictly not as it kind of works. But I think it's amazing that you guys were able to do that. And that's a part of your journey because you could also help other people with that aspect of things, you know, as far as their journey of being swingers. because here you are, like you said, trying to normalize it or make it more, you know, make it acceptable, but you were hiding out and now that you come forward. And the fact that you did both and you had that transition, I think, is also really great, too, because you could explain it and help other people. Yeah, we think that there was that benefit. And it's funny when you talk about kind of the imposter syndrome and like, this is going to suck. I hope nobody, I hope

people watch it, but I hope nobody watches it at the same time. We go through that all the time with our episodes. And I think the first year, we were very critical of everything that we produced. And with YouTube, it's been a whole extra layer because we went from, you know, one dimension audio to three dimensions with cameras and lighting and getting our hair done and all that kind of stuff. So it's been a journey for sure to get comfortable with that and to kind of put ourselves out there in more ways than one. And now do you still have your, you know, like your careers, are they still in place and has anyone in your vanilla world, like found out that this is what you guys do? Or are you still kind of like even though you're out on your YouTube, you're still kind of not out in

your whole life. Yeah, we're not out in our whole life. No one from my current job has found out, although I have had conversations with coworkers where I've probably disclosed a little too much about camera equipment and lighting and microphones because, you know, I work in an audiovisual environment. Yeah. And they started asking questions and there's Phoebe in the background because we work in the same office. And she's behind me going, no, call it off.

Call it off. Go there. So, yeah, I had definitely strayed to that side. Now, interestingly enough, we both, through previous employers, run into people in the lifestyle that we worked with. No way. Hilarious and scary. And then it turned out to be really sexy and kind of hot, too, at the same time.

Did you hook up with that? I had a... I tried to. We tried to hook up with all of them. Did you? You didn't get to be there. No. None of them.

It was one of those things where it was super hot to be like at work and, you know, typing away. And they'd walk by and you give a little wink, right? Like, because I know what you know and you know what I know. Yeah. But nothing ever really happened. And I think we're both a little disappointed in that because they were, they're sexy people. And it would be fun. And of course, now that we don't work there, it's even less awkward potentially.

Yeah. So wait, now tell me about your only fans now. How did you get into that? And what do you do over there? Like, what would people find over there? Sexy fix videos. We got into that. We were talking with a woman at our local nudist resort who is a chatterbate model.

And I'm, you know, hair at. I am like asking a lot of questions like really tell me more about that how does this work for three hours I talked to this woman and I said I couldn't believe she made the money that she makes right there and she's like oh she's like I said it I said it's probably too late for me to get into some she's like no there is an endless amount of money out there and she she I go well how do you how do you like dictate you like your whole day must be just you know busy and she goes oh no she goes if i'm taking a shower i just film it if i'm in the hot tub i just you know she said her vacation one of her vacation there at that nudist resort was paid just because she was in the hot tub that morning

putting her feet in front of the light in the hot tub and she sold that video and she sold the video and paid for her day there at the resort i'm like get out right so Of course, that took a year of contemplation. And then she came over and I had to ask her a whole bunch of questions. And I wasn't going the route of chatterbate, but I thought, you know, maybe we could do some photos. It started with flick photos. But now it's made past that. Yeah, now it's like full on porn and everything.

An only fan. So that's what people could see if they go there. I mean, you do custom videos, stuff like that. We do mostly stuff that's more story-based that we like to do. We haven't done any custom stuff at this point. We will. But we get a request. We haven't gotten any requests yet.

We're fledgling only fanners. And I think a lot of it was I've always really enjoyed watching Phoebe, taking pictures of Phoebe, videoing Phoebe. It's hot for me. And I think kind of in the back of our head, we're like, you know what? we're getting older. Our retirement plan, you know, maybe we just, maybe we just make some passive income this way. Like, we'll keep it separate from the podcast. Like, it's not the podcast. That's still free. We're still, you know, pushing that content out. Why? Because it's helpful.

And we like to contribute back to the community. But, you know, if people want to pay to see our junk, why not? Why not? This would be fun. Yeah, I don't see it. I think it's a part of your brand. You know, it's like your podcast is your podcast, but then you create a whole brand around that. And there's everything is an extension, but it's like all within that.

So I think that that's great. And I think OnlyFans for a couple like you would be a no-brainer. I mean, I just did a Q&A for my Patreon. They're like, someone's like, why don't you do an OnlyFans? I'm like, because it doesn't make sense. It doesn't go with my show. You know what I mean?

I can't have other people on my OnlyFans. And my show is not about me, But like your guy's show is about you guys and swingers and sex and why not do that? I mean, if I were you guys, I would because you can make some good money. And it is a way to just extend your brand and create more content and get a larger fan base. I think that there's nothing wrong with that. I think it's great. Smart.

Yeah. And I think a lot of it too is it's a different expression of our sexuality. Yeah. Like we've exposed a couple times, we're exhibitionists. we like playing in front of other people. We like having sex in front of other people. There's no bigger audience than the internet. No different, right?

It's like the biggest sex party you've been to. Is that you right? Yeah. Yeah, you're starting the party like you were at those small places, but you're just doing it online. And like you said to tons of people, so your exhibitionist side is getting your fill, right? Yeah, yeah.

And it's sexy for us as a couple, too, to be able to take pictures of each other. And honestly, I've learned a lot in this process where people about the different kinks, where initially I go, ooh, you know, I'm kind of surprised at that. I'm surprised somebody likes that. And then I start to think about that and I go, huh, well, gosh, you know, I mean, there's really something for everybody out there. And if they really like that and that really turns them on, then maybe I could give that to them. I mean, if they really want it, and that's their thing, my thing, you know, it doesn't, it's not what turns me on and it doesn't compromise, you know, then you have to think about it does it compromise what I want to do, you know, and how I want to my body to be shown or what I want to do for money. You always have to assess that.

But if it's okay and fits within that, you go, gosh, you know, yeah, I could provide that to somebody if they're willing to see that and pay for that. and that's their kink and sure, why not? You know? It's all about whatever you're into. And I'm always surprised what people are into. It's kind of fun. It's crazy, but it's fun. Oh, yeah, I just had a girl on him airing her on this Monday, Naomi,

and she, like, hooks up with this couple. And she's like, yeah, they're into, you know, corruption kink. I'm like, what's that? But then she's, like, also, you know, monster kink. I'm like, what the fuck does that mean? Like monster dildos or, like, real monsters? She's like, no, like monsters. Like they have like these really high end costumes.

I mean, it's just like so fascinating. And I'm like, it doesn't matter. I mean, I have almost 600 episodes and then some. And I still, it always amazes me that I still will hear about new things, you know. It's like you can't believe it. What people are into. And they will pay for it. I mean, I have a lot of girls on who do, who are in the sex work business or they have

olding fans and they do cater to guys in that way. And I mean, you know, it's crazy the kind of request that that could come in that, you know, you just can't believe the shit that guys will pay for. Sometimes they'll even pay for giving you money. I mean, there's this whole thing that I'm just learning about called Fendom, right? Fendom. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

They just want you to take their money. Like, that's what it is. I'm like, holy shit. So I think that's great that you're in that. Now, give out all your shout out. So for people that are listening, they want information, newbie couples that want to get into the. the Swinging lifestyle, your podcast will be great for them. Give that information and then as well as your YouTube, I'll put links to everything in there. Do you have like a link tree

thing that you could send me that has all your links on it? Well, we also have a website. So Swinger University.com. Okay. Perfect. And on that you can find all of the different sites and services that offer the podcast, links to our YouTube, links to our only fans, links to our Costa Rica takeover, which we're doing in June. We're actually doing the vacation, which, and it's through a friend of ours who's a promoter, and she's helping us to organize that and set that all up, but we still have room. Wait, so give some information about that. If people could, so that's something that you're like a swing-year vacation that you're doing,

and people could. Yeah, yeah. Okay, give some information about it. That's interesting. It's right in the jungle. It's in the Haco area of Costa Rica. It's at this luteque yoga resort. So it's beautiful.

I mean, it is literally like being in the jungle. It's a manicure jungle, but it's gorgeous. And there's 20 rooms and the whole vacation is facilitated around getting people to interact with one another. There's classes every night in the playroom on flogging or squirting. squirting and then they have the other toys too. Sibbean. And what's also included in the vacation are excursions. So a lot of the adult resorts, you can't leave.

It's not safe. And you wouldn't want to because you spent a lot of money for them. But this resort, you get excursions with it. So you get outside of the resort, which is the other opportunities to meet people and connect with them. So you can be naked anywhere. In the resort. Yeah. Except for in the dining room, which is pretty typical.

And what's interesting is most of the excursions are together as a group. So at other swinger takeovers that we've been to, everybody kind of breaks off and scatters and goes and does their own thing. You can do that on this particular trip. But there are a couple excursions and there are a lot of activities where everybody does it together as a crew, which is great because you get to meet people and interact with them and see them having fun, which is way sexier than seeing. them after you're tired after doing ATVing all day and you're dirty and that's it.

Like that's the end of your day. We're all acting through these things together and we get to interact with them, which is awesome. Yeah, and that's like for play too, because sometimes, you know, how many times for you, Phoebe, as a woman like that, we meet a guy and you don't have any feelings for him, but after you get to know him, you're like, oh, now I find him fucking hot, you know, like, because you've gone to know them a little bit. So I think that that's great that you do push for that interaction with people because I think that maybe some people will find people that are more attracted to

maybe that they didn't realize because they're getting to know them outside of the bedroom too. Yeah. We're going to do some fun stuff too as podcasters. And of course, there's pool games and some fun activities. But we're also hoping to make it a little bit educational as well, kind of keeping with the spirit of what our podcast is all about. So a lot of times people will be first time or first swimner vacation and they'll come on these kinds of trips and it will be great for them because we're going to help.

We're going to help bring them on board and come over to the dark side because we have more more fun over here. Exactly. Yeah, that's great. So it's like Swinger Vacation 101. So if people want information on that, they could go to your website at swinger university. dot com? Or what is your website again? Say it again? Swinger University.com. Your podcast is Swinger University, your YouTube channel, Swinger University. And like I said, go to the website.

I'll put your website and all your information as well as your only fans. If you want to see more hardcore stuff, you could go there. That's a little bit more personalized. But thanks so much for coming on and sharing your story. I'm going to use your thumbnail when I'm promoting. My Instagram is that cool? I like it. I'm very visual. I try to find good pictures on Google and somehow I found that once and I liked it enough to use it. I stole it from you guys. But thank you so much for calling it and sharing your story. Thank you. It's so lovely speaking with you today. Yeah, we appreciate it. Awesome. Thanks so much. Have fun in Costa Rica. I'm a little jealous. We'll come on down. I always said I'll be a swinger like when I'm 60.

Toronto unicorn shoes on my show. She's like, why are you waiting until you're 60? You're still hot now, do it. Yeah, come while you're young. Exactly. All right, thanks, you guys. Thank you. Bye. Bye.

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Thanks so much for listening. Okay, I just want to tell you before you go that my book, it's called Strictly Anonymous Confession, Secret Sex Lives of Total Strangers, is now available not only in paperback and e-book, but you can pre-order the audio book. It's still not going to be out until August 25th, but you can pre-order it. The book is basically 17 different stories taken from my show.

I kind of picked one story from each category that I talk about on my show. Like there's a hot wife story. There's a cuck queen story. There's a cuck story. There's a gang being girl story. Like I said, 17 stories. And they're all told in the third person. and they're all true.

I took the interview and rewrote it in the third person. And I wouldn't really call it like a total erotica book. Think like Penthouse letters. It's more direct. It's not so over the top like erotica. I don't really like that kind of vibe, right? But these are true stories. 17 of them.

They're really short chapters, easy read. You could read, you know, one or two and then skip around. You could read the whole book. It's available in eback format. back format. And finally, the audio book is available coming out August 25th, but you could pre-order it now. And if you buy my book in any format or pre-order it, I will throw in a complimentary link to my Discord. My Discord does not disappoint. Okay. There's no way you get into my Discord any other way than getting the link from me. Okay. I give it to people who buy my book. There's tons of people

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