Strictly Anonymous Confessions - 608 - Mark Opened Up his Marriage and it Didn't End Well

Episode Date: March 15, 2023

Mark opened up his marriage and it didn’t end well. Why did him and his wife decide to open up their marriage in the first place? What kind of rules did they have in place? And, how and why did it end so badly? Tune in for all the details including the issues they were having in their marriage prior to opening it up, how he always knew he was bisexual and why he repressed it, how he brought up hooking up with others to his wife and how she reacted, how and why they were only allowed to hook up with members of the same sex, how he was very interested group sex involving her and how and why she wasn’t into it, the first trans man he hooked up with and exactly what went down between them, how much he liked it and how his wife felt about when he filled her in, how and why he then went Grinder and started hooking up with cisgender males, how and why he stopped telling his wife about his hook ups, how and why he became a “daddy” and why he leaned into it, the male neighbors he hooked up with including one who had a jock strap fetish, how and why his wife went from dating women to men and how he could tell she was very into it, the threesome they had with a trans guy and what exactly went down, the guy she started seeing and how he could tell something more was happening between them, how he found out they had fallen in love and how she reacted when he confronted her, how that led to their divorce and how his wife is still in relationship with the same guy, all the bad stuff he found about about the guy and how she reacted when he confronted her, how messy things got and how he has been working through them, the trans woman he met and is not in a relationship with, how and why his parents have no idea she’s trans, what he plans to do about that plus a whole lot more. **To see anonymous pics of most of my female guests + hear anonymous confessions + get all the episodes early and AD FREE, join my Patreon! It's only $7 a month and you can cancel at any time. You can sign up here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.patreon.com/StrictlyAnonymousPodcast⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and when you join, I'll throw in a complimentary link to my private Discord! MY BOOK IS NOW OUT FOR PRE-ORDER!!!! Strictly Anonymous Confessions: Secret Sex Lives of Total Strangers. A bunch of short, super sexy, TRUE stories. GET YOUR COPY NOW: https://amzn.to/4i7hBCd To Join SDC and get a FREE Trial! click here: https://www.sdc.com/?ref=37712 or go to SDC.com and use my code 37712 Want to be on the show? Email me at [e-mail] or go to http://www.strictlyanonymouspodcast.com and click on "Be on the Show" Have something quick you want to confesss while remaining anonymous? Call the CONFESSIONS hotline at 347-420-3579. You can call 24/7. All voices are changed. Sponsors: https://bluechew.com Get your first month FREE! https://butterwellness.com/ Try the Butter Wellness perineum massager and use code STRICTLY for 20% off your entire order Follow me! Instagram https://www.instagram.com/strictanonymous/ Twitter https://twitter.com/strictanonymous?lang=en Website http://www.strictlyanonymouspodcast.com/ Everything else https://linktr.ee/Strictlyanonymouspodcast Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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the DL because you need like some anonymous advice or you just want to talk about your secret life but you don't want it to air I offer that there I charge for that it's 45 minutes it's a hundred dollars there's a link in the description for that as well so today I have on mark now mark is one of those you know open relationship gone wrong stories he was married had a kid and he like a rough patch a little rough patch with his wife. And what they decided to do during the rough patch was open up their relationship. Now, Mark had some bisexual tendencies that were always repressed. So they opened up the relationship to only hook up with members of the same sex.

So Mark was able to hook up with guys. She was able to hook up with women. Mark really wanted to play together as a group. and do groupy things with her, but in the beginning, she didn't seem to be totally into that. So they did start meeting people separately. He did have an experience with a trans man. That was one of the first experiences he had right out of the gate.

And he did break some rules during that experience. And when he told her, she didn't react well. But instead of stopping, they continued, and he continued to see guys. He had sex with all kinds of neighbors. He was living out all his fantasies and doing stuff that he wanted to do. He eventually met a trans woman. That's who he's currently with now.

That's a whole other story that we get to towards the end. But during this whole process, she eventually transitions from seeing women to seeing men. And we all know what winds up happening. Because I did tell you this is a cautionary tale or, you know, open relationship got wrong. she wound up falling in love with one of the guys that she met. And she is currently still with that guy. And the whole thing ended their marriage. It wasn't a happy ending.

It was a difficult one. He didn't really approve of the guy that she wound up with, especially because he did find out some information about him. And we get very into that as well, the stuff that he found out about him, why he was disapproving how she reacted. They are both currently with the people that they were with at the end of that marriage. His girl, his ex-wife, is with that guy.

He is with the trans woman that he had met towards the end when things went up in smoke. And it's interesting because he comes from a religious family, and they like love his girl that he's with now, but they have no idea that she's trans because she's that passable. And he is at the place where he's going to have to tell his family and he wants to. But really what we, and we talk about that at the end, but really what we talk about is the whole opening up of the marriage and what happened every step of the way, all of his hookups, all of her hookups that led to their demise and how he felt and what really happened. I mean, like I said, it wasn't a happy ending. And it wasn't that long ago.

But he seems to be coming out of the bad part and he's more accepting of everything. And it's a real interesting story. You will learn a lot about what not to do when you open up your relationship. But anyway, I'm going to be right back on with Mark. Hi, Mark. Welcome to the strictly anonymous podcast. How are you today? Hi, how are you?

Thanks for having me on. No, thanks for coming on. You sound like you have a long, crazy story. story that involves a lot of crazy stuff. But it's good. I mean, the short story, I'm going to summarize it. Then you're going to start from the beginning. But basically you have, it's kind of like starts off with the swingers, not swingers, but like open marriage gone wrong story.

You're married for a long time. You guys decide to open it up. It goes south. You're going to talk about how it did. You definitely have a thing for guys. You've dated men. You've hooked up with them. You then started a trans.

you have experience with trans men, trans women. What's really interesting about the story, too, is where you wind up is you are now dating a trans woman who your family loves. And we have to mention that you do come from an Orthodox Jewish family, which is very hardcore, right? And they love your girl. But they have no idea she's trans. And you guys also have an open, poly, non-monogamous situation. So tell me everything. Where does it start?

Let's start with your marriage, right? So you're married to this woman. You guys are monogamous. And why and when did you guys are like, how did you open up your relationship? Let's start when you like open that up. Sure. So I would say things really kicked off maybe like a year and a half almost two years ago. And we were married for about seven years together for 12.

Oh, a long time. Okay. And, yep. And the things, we were kind of had some issues in the relationship and things were somewhat hot and cold, but, you know, life events were kind of always keeping us together, right? Like getting married, like getting the house, the kids, school, all that kind of stuff. Yeah, you get so invested. It's harder to untangle yourself from the situation. Totally.

Yeah. Totally. And then when our kid was turning, basically turned six. we found ourselves kind of like alone with each other again, right? And because our kid was like a little bit more independent and it's like we're getting a little bit older. Like I'm 40 now. So like in my late 30s and just kind of evaluating life a little bit. She was, she's younger than me, but I think she was kind of doing the same.

And so one day I said, look, I've always been, I guess, bisexual. and but I've always kind of like repressed that and while my family is orthodox they're not super conservative okay but still I'm from like a sort of like orthodox neighborhood in New York and whatever it's not that easy to like be like a bisexual guy yeah uh where I'm from and so I definitely like repressed that and I said I just I'm going to be 40 soon I can't take it anymore what would you think if we tried this ethical non-monogamy thing? And, but, like, all of our friends are talking about it. We're in New York City.

Like, every other person is non-monogamous. Yeah, it's like the cool to be open, right? Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And so everybody is reading, like, we're reading the books. Ethical slut is like the Bible, is it all?

Yeah. And I was like, I got, like, really into it. I was like, oh, like, here's the book. Like, here's, let's. say in the book, like you have to really prepare, right? You basically have to, like, talk like crazy and try to you anticipate every situation and so that you're not, like, surprised or, like, whatever, like, reacting to things when you open the relationship.

And I felt like I did sort of a lot of researching, got really into it, and she was kind of like, eh, she was kind of, like, not as enthusiastic about it in the beginning as I was. and in fact when I brought it up she was kind of like she was a little bit shocked but knew that I had had some like minor experiences with guys in the past but like few and far between okay so it wasn't a total surprise it wasn't a total surprise but I would say that the fact that I'm by was not a total surprise but the non-monogic is a bigger shock I think Yeah. And basically she would like kind of freaked out by it and I just kind of let it sit. And then I came home two days later and she was like, guess what?

And like what? She's like, I made us a Tinder account. Oh, wow. It didn't take her long to flip. I don't know. Right. I know. She's kind of like that.

Like once she gets used to the idea, she like runs after it. And she sort of like that in life, like can be very enthusiastic when she's, you know. to something. Right, right. She's either all in or all out. Totally. Mm-hmm. Okay. And she was like, so I was like, oh, that's funny. And so basically we made a field account and a Tinder account. Okay. And field, as you probably know, was more for like groups and sort of like whatever, non-monogamous situations. And Tinder is for more traditional

and sometimes non-monogamous connections, right? Yeah, yeah. And so I was on field. I was like at first, like really into trying to get like group things going. But she was never super into that. And I'll sort of, I guess that sort of comes into play a little bit later in the story. But so I get on field and I start to get messages. And the first person I met up with was actually a trans guy. But wait, can I ask you a quick question?

because you go on to these, like, I mean, two days goes by, and you guys are, and she wasn't into it at first, so I'm assuming you didn't really talk it out. Two days goes by, already the profiles are up and going. I mean, what kind of conversation did you have regarding, like, the setup? I mean, was it that you guys could only play together? Was it like everything goes? Yeah, yeah, sorry, I glossed over that. That's really important.

Yeah. So we said, she was a little bit freaked out. And in the beginning, we said, we're only allowed to date people of the same gender. So I can only date guys. She can only date girls. Oh. Or trans men and women or kind of like gender queer people, I guess. Uh-huh.

So that's how we started. And that felt like a good boundary because, like, I guess the other rule was it's only about sex. no falling in love, no relationships, no, like, emotional entanglement or something. And you were allowed to play separate. I mean, that was a thing. More so you were going to play separate than together. Yeah. So I really wanted to do stuff together.

Yeah. As a couple, we did a little bit of that. But I don't know, from the beginning, she really preferred to meet people separately. It was just, I don't know. I almost felt like I was. was like, I almost got the feeling that I was like cramping her style. Yeah, I mean, there's like already two red flags in the story. As far as coming from her, one is that she wasn't into it, off the bat.

And the second is she didn't want you there. I mean, you know what I mean? Right. You really, you tell it straight. Sorry. Go on. And so she, so, so, so the first person, so I was. like talking to a few people.

This was on field. Eventually I started talking to like a trans guy who was like our age, had a kid the same age. He was married. He was kind of relatively new into like his transition, like probably less than two years, right? Uh-huh. And so I met up with him and that was my first kind of out in public date ever with a guy.

And that was like, it's funny, it's like, I look back in it now and it's like, yeah, whatever, I'm like used to it. I'm all of the crazy shit I've done. But that was like, I still sort of see that as like a big special romantic day. Like we went to a restaurant and like he went on like a hike and we were like making out in the woods on the hike and like people would like walk by and I sort of like laugh and then like start again. It was just very, I sort of felt like I got a lot. to sort of live authentically a little bit for the first time. Yeah, interesting. But now I'm just counting out the red flags.

Red flag number three. You use the word romantic. That wasn't supposed to be a part of it. Two for your girl, one for you. I'm keeping track. I know. I know. And you know what?

That was a big issue in the being. So, okay, so this is what happened. So we went on that day. Yeah. I was not expecting that. I wasn't expecting that there would be like any sort of romance or connection like that. Yeah. Yeah. Like I thought I was really looking to, like, more, like, transactional sex, basically.

And I don't know if it was because they were a trans guy and, like, not to be, I don't know, I don't know if this is, like, controversial to say, but, like, not to, like, maybe more, like, emotionally intelligent or something than a cis guy. And I was surprised by that. I told my wife at the time about it, and she was, like, very threatened. and remember one time, I think on my second date with him, we were both- Date, red flag number three, it's called you, it's not a fucking date. Sorry, I mean, four, red flag, far, go on. When I say date, I don't know, I sort of use that strategically romance, but whatever.

My second date with him, we, what do we do? Oh, it's really hard to schedule, right, because we're busy. We're both parents, both have kids. It's just impossible to schedule. But finally we found some time to get together. And we ended up going to this like a public park, basically. And this is like in upstate New York where it's in kind of like a working class area. Like it's probably not the safest place to go have like gay sex in public.

Oh my goodness. That's what you did? It was a day time? Oh, my God. No, it was nighttime. It was night time. It was like 9, 10 p.m. Yeah.

Okay. And it was like pretty like secluded, like almost like a, like I almost want to say it's like, it's like one of the like former industrial towns. And it was like I'm like coming from like being somebody like married, not only married but monogamous. Yeah. And like kind of like a sexually dead, very vanilla situation. Yeah.

And I'm kind of like, whoa, this is insane. And we end up like basically fucking in this park. And we come back. back, you know, go home. And at that time, the rule of my, my wife at the time was that shared the details with each other. And that's sort of part of it, part of this kind of excitement. Yeah. And so I told her about it and she just like flipped out. I think one of the rules at the time was that we're supposed to check with the other, like, before we fuck someone else. And I hadn't done that. And she just like, she just like had a very, very strong reaction.

And was like pretty upset. Yeah. But then a couple days later, I think. I don't know if it was like in reaction to what I did. I don't know. She seemed to have like a renewed kind of interest in it like a few days later and like her own baby. And she started to get really into it. And so and I don't know what she's trying to get back in me? What she actually into it?

I don't know. Yeah. But her thing was just the rule for her was just dating girls, right? So she was like talking to a few girls and she's like, I don't know how to put this. she's very attractive like I would say most people I think I do okay

but I would say most people probably think she's out of my week and so when she went on when she put her profile up it was like I was getting like a couple hits here and there her phone was like catching on fire in her pocket

because it was just like insane yeah like it was ridiculous and so and this was just with girls, like before she even, well, let me not skip it up. So she's on there. She, like, has a couple dates with girls. And it's okay, but, like, I can just tell.

Like, she's just not into it in the same way that I am. And sometimes I would joke. I'm like, are you sure you're not straight? Like, are you a closet heterosexual? That's so New York. Yeah. So she's kind of like taking it slow. Meanwhile, I'm meeting guys and going crazy.

So I have a, like, I'm clean and sober now and whatever, but I have like an addictive personality. Yeah. Yeah, of course. And I don't like to think that I'm a sex addict, but maybe. The problem with being an, like sober means you're an addict. And being sober and being an addict are two separate things. Just because you're sober doesn't mean you're not an addict, right? as a sober person, right?

That's me. I am still an addict. Anything that I fucking like, I want more of. Whether it's a song, whether it's a bag of chips, whether it's a person, a sex toy. You know, anything good, you just want it in excess. That's why you can't fucking drink. Yeah, you're right. Yeah.

Listen, if I'm real with myself, I mean, I do some compulsive shit, but no doubt. Yeah. So anyway. So I would get, so I would kind of going crazy, like I was meeting a lot of people. So you have, but like, let me just ask you. So that, like, did that trans guy stick around and then you were still seeing cisgender men? I mean, because that was in the, that was okay, right? I mean, you were just seeing guys and trans people, because eventually you do meet a trans woman.

I know that. That's right, yeah. Yeah, I was. So he was around for a while, but he ended up, he, like, bought a very, van and his whole family and like just like decided to live on the road so he left after a while okay and i uh yes i was dating a bunch of or going out to meet like cis guys so eventually i i graduated from field to grinder and on grinder uh there's a how do i put this there's like a surprising or maybe not surprising depending on your perspective amount of like quote unquote straight

guys on Grindr or buy guys. Yeah. Yeah. And it's all like blank profiles and like everybody's like, see myself, like I was one of those kind of like creepy anonymous sort of blank profile that anybody that's familiar with grinder will identify with. Yeah. And so. That's code for I'm married or doing this on the DL is what you're saying?

Totally. Okay. Yeah. And you can tell. There's just so many. Like especially like outside of the city. It's just like, it's like a joke. There's like two photos. And then there's like 20 just blank profiles. And then like, and then your phone just starts, people, they're like, so, what's good? Right, right, right. Yeah.

It's like very, it's funny. And so I started to meet up with guys and do like some transactional stuff. I had this one, I hooked up with a couple of neighbors. I hooked up with like three neighbors. I had a house in upstate New York. And it's like kind of a small. town, I guess. And so it's like you always see

like the same people on Grindr. And basically like I went through the whole list of like people around my age that like I might be into. So it was like one guy was like this kind of daddy type and he was he came over.

And at first I was like a little bit unsure about giving out my address and letting like random guys come over. But I sort of quickly kind of got used to that. So am I assuming that you're traveling up there by yourself or is your wife around? I mean, she's not there, right, when you're bringing them home?

No, no, no. Okay. Yeah, sometimes I'm up there by myself. Sometimes it's during the week. Yeah, okay. And it got to a point where I was so active in meeting people that I wasn't, I wasn't really telling her as much. Like, the rule was we're supposed to tell each other everything that we're doing.

Yeah. But pretty quickly, it started to creep where I'm doing more stuff than I'm telling her about. Well, we just glossed over the fact that you shared details with her and she wasn't into it and she reacted badly. So I think most couples would put a stop to things and wait until it was okay. But you guys just kept forging ahead. So I would think her reaction would then make you not tell her as much. And now this is just a fucking snowball into, you know, explosion. Because all these things are going.

all these things are just everything is wrong you know every step of the way it's like wrong i mean she flips out when she hears the details it's obvious she can't handle it and isn't okay with it you ramp up but now you're not even communicating anymore so it's just it's right you know it's just unraveling and i'm only pointing this stuff out because it these kinds of stories do help people i have a lot of people on that do it successfully but like when it doesn't go right these are all things that i think people can learn from yeah yeah no totally yeah and for me it feels good to just like it's sort of I'm just like get it out and it's almost part of like closing the chapter a little bit. Yeah, for sure.

And so, so, so I'm like, so I'm like pretty active on Grindr. I'm like talking to a lot of guys. Banging your neighbors. Yeah, I'm like sexting, which I was never into. Like you start to learn what people are into. Like I'm learning the lingo. Like basically everybody that meets me wants me to top them. I guess I just give off kind of like a tom or like, like,

were like daddy vibes I guess You know And then and I wouldn't say like if you asked me If I started this like you're top or bottom I'm like I don't know I'm kind of I could do both I'm kind of like switchy I guess they say But everybody is like choke me top me Choking is that a big thing with guys

Oh my God oh my god Every guys girl everybody wants me to choke them I swear to God I'm sorry I need to do a whole PSA on choking I just think people are fucking crazy doing that. Do you know what I mean? Like seriously. That is like you are, it's like playing Russian roulette. I don't know. I just think that that it's just very dangerous. It's not worth it just to get fucking off. You could kill somebody. I had a girl on who was doing that during a gang bang and like the guy, she blacked out. Because she's with a stranger. He doesn't know her. He choked her out too much. She's in ecstasy. So basically when you're horny, you're like drunk. You're not thinking properly. People die that way. It's just not worth it. I think it's crazy. But it is. So anyway. I don't think anyone should do choking during sex at all. I'm not talking about like the thing where Oh, they get on the guy from in excess where you like really

Yeah. Actually choke yourself. It's just like like grabbing the neck kind of applying pressure, but like the person is still breathing. I don't. I don't know. I'm not like choking the shit out of people. I know, I know. It's just interesting that everyone likes to be choked.

I don't know. What the fuck is that all about? I don't know. whatever, I didn't really know what, like, a daddy was or daddy dom or whatever. But you're one. People call it. Yeah. But it was like, everybody is calling me that.

And I was just like, all right, I guess I'll be like work with what you got. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. So I was like, so I started to kind of like lean into that. And when you're, I don't know, maybe you probably know this already. But like when you're a top, it's like there's a sea of bottoms up there. Oh, really? more bottoms and tops?

I didn't know that. I don't know this. You didn't know that? Oh, my God. Yeah. I don't know why. I don't know why. It's just maybe because they're more rare.

I don't really know. Yeah, that's interesting. In my world, there seems to be like there's, everybody wants to get fuck. Uh-huh. So, let's see. You're going crazy with guys is where you're at. What's that? I'm saying you're trying to figure out where you're at, like, at the point where you're, like, going crazy for guys.

you're just seeing a ton of dudes. Kind of, yeah, yeah. Because it's, like, just easy to fuck guys, and there's a lot of them, and it's very transactional, and it's like I have a really busy schedule. You know what I mean? It's like, it sounds sad. It sounds weird, but it takes less effort. Like, fuck guys.

Wait, so quick question. Are most of those guys you were seeing married? That's an interesting question. I talk to a lot of married guys, by guys, probably, in closet guys. I didn't hook up with that many of them, though I really would like to you because those are kind of my type.

Like, like, I sort of, I like guys that, like, look like me. Like that. I can identify with. Okay. Kind of, yeah. Yeah.

It's like a lot of, like, I think in, in like, gay male culture, there's a lot of, like, I don't know,

like masculine feminine goes together or whatever, but not necessarily. I guess people are into all types of different stuff. Right. I sort of, I just kind of like guys like me. But I didn't meet that many of them here and there. There was like I had this one neighbor who was like, he came over.

He was a stank of booze, probably like drove drunk to my house, which was kind of weird. And he like couldn't get it up, but he just wanted to like kind of pleasure me, I guess. Oh, he had a, he had like a jock strap fetish where, when he was on his way he was like, hey, I hope you don't think this is weird, but I'm really into jock straps. And I have this one jock strap that I haven't washed in like

two years. But, and I'm going to wear it when we meet. And I was like, okay. And like, that's kind of my thing. I'm like, I'll try whatever. Yeah. I'm in this like exploratory phase. And and he was like, oh, and I don't don't shower. Like, I really

want your smells. Oh, yeah. Okay. Okay. So there's that guy. I had another, I met somebody that was my neighbor who checked a lot of boxes. Like he was easy to meet up with. He was cute. Like we had a lot in common. And we went out one time, but he got like extremely attached, like almost like scary, like stalker attached.

to the point where we hooked up once and he was just like texting me like all day long it was like it was it was kind of scary and that was like that's probably the that's like that's probably the only like weird

but this whole weird situation but this whole time like it sounds now like I'm talking to a guy who's single and just like bye and having his first experiences with guys but you know we've forget that you have a wife during through all of this right and is she are you guys still talking a little bit is she seeing people as well at this point are you sharing some things is she okay with it what's going on with your wife at this by this point yeah yeah so so she had so the start of

her thing is she's dating girls it's not really going anywhere and like sort of very few and far between. So eventually I was like look, we have like a sort of like a whatever like progressive view on gender and like who cares like who cares about gender whatever. Like date whoever you want and she starts

dating guys. And when she started dating guys she was like went from like zero to 100 like she was like so like giddy and excited and like going on date talking about it. It was like it was kind of it was like kind of crazy to watch like she was like and that was uh so so but you know in the very beginning of that like the

sort of guy phase because she was excited that was also like exciting to me and like it sort of was a little bit of like a lightning bolt into our to sort of reignite our relationship because it almost feels like when you're first dating right like like because somebody else can and probably is like fucking your partner there's like a little bit of threat there so you would step up your game when you're together Oh, that's an interesting perspective I got it and that

So it revigorated things for a little bit That's interesting Totally yeah Yeah and even with us and like our own sex life Like we had like a I don't know Maybe two months where we were like really hot for each other Like we would go meet up with people And then come back and have like

What do they call? Like reclamation sex or whatever Like a reunited sex She would get it she was like I could even physically like she was getting like turned on in a way that like I never experienced before like extra wet like flip like it was just it was kind of that was like kind of cool and wild and stuff and so at that so during those like early days we actually did have one we had we did have a threesome with the trans guy who was like

who like popped my charity I guess you would say and um we had a it was good it was like um Well, it was so-so. Like when we, when we hung out one night and it was kind of like just low-key, but we started making out and like the sort of beginning of the hookup was really hot. You've never done it before. Like we were just, we had good chemistry as like a group of people in the beginning. But probably, I don't know, an hour into it or so. like we're all doing stuff to each other like he's wearing a strap like fucking her

she's like going down on me like spit roasting and then like switch and he's fucking me and like it was just it was it was it was hot but it was i could tell that she was getting tired and kind of like checked out after a little while and by the end of the night i could tell she was like just totally over it to the point where she kind of like politely like he was going to stay over and she kind of like asked him to leave and we've gotten like a fight and like whatever it was like some drama and stuff and that sort of like very that was a bummer to me because I was like was and still am like very interested in doing like group stuff yeah um so uh and kind of from there like she just started dating guys more independently uh and basically like the second guy she met was just just like they had a lot of chemistry and basically they fell in love. And that, yeah, and that was very, very hard to deal with, as you can imagine, like, we had a kid. But I think part of it is like she fell in love with the guy and it was right in front of me.

And it almost like, I think from her perspective, she would say like it happened by accident. I'm sure it did. Listen, you said the same thing about that trans guy. I mean, it was like you didn't go on that date to feel. feel the romance or anything like that. It just came up. That's a scary thing. And the reason why I think the majority of people

will never open up their relationship because they realize that if you do that, there is always that chance. There can be, especially if you have a relationship that two people aren't really on solid ground with each other. Therein lies the biggest problem. When I see couples on my show that have been together forever and they're just like each other's best friends

and they know they're in it to the end and everything is fucking great. Opening up is a lot safer and that can be successful. But in your situation, it's more because you guys had already grown apart for so long. This only pushed you further away. You did a lot of things when you hear this back as a third person. It's just so obvious, like I said, that this was going to end badly, whether it was you or her, going to eventually caught feelings. because you were feeling ways too.

You were getting addicted to guys, like and so into that. But you had a wife at home. No, totally. Yeah. I know. In retrospect, like, of course this fucking happens. Yes.

It's always easier to see when you're outside of it than when you're in it. And I always believe that when you're in things, I could always understand and realize how it could happen because I am, I don't sort of, listen to people with judgmental ears, but so many other people do. You know what I mean? They'll be like so judgy about people. Like how could they do that? Like it was so obvious.

But life happens and you wind up in situations and we've all been there, done that. And when you look back and you're like, how was I so dumb? But that's just, you were human beings. We are dumb. You know, no one's perfect. Yeah. It's just the way that life goes. Even now, like I think about it.

I'm like, I don't know. This was like that open marriage. was either the best or worst thing that ever happened to me. Right now, it's like, definitely, it was the best because it, like, had to, like, kill a relationship that was dying. But going through it was extremely traumatic. Yeah, well, going through the ending would have been traumatic either way. Like you said, the reason why you hadn't left it is because you just kept getting more entangled and involved. And, like, how do you get out of a marriage when you have kids and all that stuff with each other? It's really hard to do that. And so most people stay. So what happens?

was your open marriage did for you guys what neither one of you could do, which is fucking end it. It's like sabotage, but sometimes sabotage. Most of the time we're sabotaging things we like. We're sabotaging things that maybe we know on some level isn't going to work. No, totally. I mean, was your marriage going to work if you didn't do this? It may have like, it may have clicked on longer, but, I mean, it was obviously,

in retrospect, it was clearly dysfunctional. Right. Like we just, yeah. And so, and like, whatever, like, from where I'm standing, I was very angry. I was like, she fell in love with somebody. How could you do this? There's only one rule. The only rule is don't fall in love.

But, of course, that happened. And I was doing it too. Right, exactly. How did you know, though? Like, how did that process happen? I mean, she didn't come home one day and say, oh, my God, I'm so into this guy. Like, how did you realize that she was falling for him? So that's funny.

I'm glad you asked. So there, I had a sense that they were just, she went on the first date with him. She told me about it. Even after that first date, it was kind of like whatever. Like she wasn't, it wasn't obvious, I think, to her or myself that there was potential in the relationship. And then I started to notice that they were like texting a lot. And I'm not like going, not going through her phone or giving, you know, that. Yeah.

But it just seems obvious. It's like every night she starts like go outside and like vaping or whatever outside and like talking, like spending more and more time. Oh, my God. Right. Right. Same time every night. It was like, this is weird. What's going on here?

Yeah. And so I can just tell that it's growing. I can tell that we live in the city and we have a place upstate and it was like she has a, she works in both places. Right. So when she, like we sort of got into a rhythm where, uh, and, our kid is in school in the city. So we got into a rhythm where she was going upstate. So it's kind of like extended weekends, like whatever, three or four days a week.

And I started to notice that she would get like super giddy before going up there. And like it was like she was leaving to go upstate like earlier and earlier every week. I was like Wednesday morning. I'm like, what the hell? Like weekend doesn't start until Friday. And she's like going up a lot and like seeing her get into a better mood. and but in the beginning she would tell me when she's hanging out with him yeah but it was just obvious that they were hanging out together every weekend and like

their their connection was kind of growing and I was kind of like getting really upset by that in the background and uh what happened and then oh so then one day I just was getting really angry and like felt like I wasn't getting a clear picture from her and we had some talk, we were, we had, we talked about possibly like shutting it down. Mm-hmm. And going back to monogamy and like going to like therapy and whatever. And basically she was just like, no, I don't want to do that. And I had a sort of story that I told myself for the last couple of years that I did want to stop and try to salvage it.

But if I'm really honest about it now, I don't think I did either. Yeah. And I think if I really, really did, I. I would have pushed harder. It was tried harder, you know? And she, and then finally one day I went to her phone, which I'm not proud of, when she was asleep. And there was like just endless text messages with the guy, like literally all day long. They're like texting and it's like about everything and not just like sex stuff.

And it was just like sort of like confirmation that like they're in love. and I confronted her with it and she just fucking lost her mind. How could you violate my privacy like this? You're so jealous. Like, this is crazy. This was your idea. It was just like a huge explosive confrontation. Yeah.

And shortly there asked, basically, she was like, I can't do this anymore. We need to get separated. And mean, sort of while this was happening, I had also started dating women and trans women. And I had a few months before things like really hit the fan with our marriage, I started dating this trans girl in Brooklyn who was like, like it was meant we met on Grindr, which there's like a lot of trans women on Grindr. Oh, interesting.

For whatever reason. Which is like somewhat controversial to like Grindr people, like sometimes like the like old school gay guys or like this is our space and whatever yeah funny anyway so so we met on grinder and we had like a very it was supposed to just be like a hookup in fact i remember like like the first night like she was like she was like oh choke me like she wanted she had me like she was really she's like a real sub and so she would she wanted me to like wear like these boots and like put a leash on her and like walk on her, like, in her apartment and stuff. Oh, I've heard it all. That's on news to me.

Yeah. And that was on the first date. Wow. It wasn't like, I don't think either of us were going into this being like, oh, this could be something. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was very much like a grinder hookup. But like sort of the same thing that I think probably happened with my ex-wife is happening with me and her. where just that's like what do you fucking expect like you put all of the she's single first of all so she has no uh sort of boundary around having a sort of emotional connection or relationship grow

with somebody right and so of course like it kind of grew from there uh to a point where now she's like my current serious girlfriend but we met when uh i was married and she was sort of of with me like the whole time. Like watching the sort of like marriage fall apart. Question. So when you're, when you find out that your girl, your wife is in love with that guy, had you already started to fall for the trans woman or did those feelings and dating her come after?

I was definitely having feelings for her, but I was trying to not to go. I was trying. And I think, you know, I think that that guys just naturally are better at doing that than girls, which I mean, it's kind of obvious to say. But a lot of, yeah, I think that. And if you like, whatever, like read the non-monogany stuff with the Texan stuff, they, that's like a big warning. It's like it's sort of naive to think that a woman can, I don't know if it's something about like the hormones or estrogen. I don't know, but it's naive to think that a woman can have, like, transactional sex in the way that a guy can.

Right. And so back to your question, I was definitely, like I felt it growing with her, but I was really trying hard to keep it arm's length. But it was hard. And then once it was sort of finally clear that my wife was in love with somebody else, then I just, like, let it go. and like really let the relationship grow. And it was very intense. Like, I don't know, maybe because of the, I don't know, I hate to think there's like a rebound component,

but, you know, of course, it's like I'm coming out of like a very traumatic divorce. Yeah. Where I'm like watching my wife. I still love her and like, like, like, it wasn't like we were out of love. It's just like we were not compatible. So I truly have like a broken heart.

And it almost was like, like my girlfriend was like, like really, really supportive during that time. Probably more, I probably, if I'm honest, put too much on her in terms of my relationship baggage. But I don't know. I think it just kind of came with the territory of what I was going through. Did she care? I mean, she was there for you. She was into you.

So, I mean, what does it matter? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think there's any rules. I mean, it's just a matter if, listen, if she ran for the hills because he did. that then it would have maybe been like oh you should maybe you should have done that if you wanted to keep that one but this this person that you're with she was okay with that she wanted to be there for you

so who cares if you dumped it all on her what else were you going to do with it right so go on um sorry i'm just losing my train of thought um so let's see so so you guys you and your wife like get to And now does she, and you continue to see this trans woman. Now, this is maybe a dumb question, but I think some trans women and some trans men have transitioned physically and right and had like a full transition. Some haven't. I get the idea that the trans guy you were with didn't because you said that he was using a strap on. But like the trans woman that you're with now, does she have a penis? Does she not?

Like what is that deal? She does. Yeah. She does. She's, let's see. I guess I would say, so she's been on hormones for like maybe three years. She's gorgeous, but she's 100% passable. Right.

She has, like, perfect voice. It's kind of crazy. But she's had no surgeries other than, like, facial feminization surgery, where they basically, like, make your face look more feminine. I guess. Uh-huh. Interesting. Which is a big, which is a big surgery, but she hasn't had top surgery and she has not

had bottom surgery. And so she has a dick. And, oh, she recently had an orchectomy. You know what that is? The, like the thing in your neck, the Adams apple thing taken away? I don't know. No, no. No.

It's a, it's a procedure where they remove your testicles. Oh, interesting. Okay. Yeah. So she's had, because obviously testicles produce testosterone. And so once you have been removed as like a trans woman, then you don't have to take. It's also like somehow I've become like a fucking endocrinologist.

Yeah, it's interesting though. I like that stuff. Yeah, that's an interesting thing. So they do that so that they don't have all that testosterone pumping through their body. So it's easier to become hormonally like a woman. Totally. Oh, that's interesting. And she no longer has to be reliant or.

as reliant on testosterone blockers. Yeah, yeah, yeah, right. Because she takes testosterone blockers and, I guess, estrogen enhancers or something. Do you know who Buck Angel is? No. He's just a very famous trans man. He's a big activist.

He's huge, kind of. And he was also like, he got into porn to make porn for people. And she's very interesting. I have him, I'm taping him on Monday. But I thought maybe you would know him. So wait, so she's so. Okay. let's get back to your trans girl.

So you start dating her. Now, does your wife currently, like, is your wife currently with the guy that she fell, quote, unquote, in love with? Is that who she's with now, too? Yes. Oh, okay. They live together. Okay.

Yeah. And he, they live together. He lives with my kid half time. It's pretty crazy. How do you feel about him? I don't know how long it's been. How long has it been since that everything went south? And she went with him and you were with your trans girl.

About a year. It's like a year to like, let's say, 16 months. Oh, wow. So now how do you feel about that guy? I mean, he's like a thorn in your side, right? I mean, have you taken that thorn out yet? I mean, it's only been a year. I think it takes time to get past stuff like that.

Right, right. No, yeah. How I feel is not good. So a bunch of crazy shit happened related to him, which is basically very quickly after they met, they were spending a lot of time together. And not just after they met, but after we were sort of officially decided that we were going to get separated. Yeah, yeah. She was like, look, I love him. I want him to spend more time at the house because we were nesting.

So we had two spaces or two houses, whatever. and we would rotate in and out so our kid was never displaced. And you did that for like a year. And that which side note is absolute torture for anybody going through that, like, or thinking about it. It's horrible. I would never do it again. Interesting.

And it's like living with somebody who's never home and that you hate. Like it's just. Yeah. And so. Yeah. So she's like, I would like, she was like, she was like, would you be okay if I start? bringing him around our kid more.

And I was like, I don't know. Like, why don't we, like, treat this the same way you might treat, like, hiring a nanny or something, right? Like, just want to you give me, like, his name and, like, we'll do, like, a little background check and make sure he's not, like, a sex offender or whatever. She, like, goes ballistic, is so angry that, like, I don't trust her, blah, blah, blah. It leads, like, all these fights. But basically, I stood my ground.

I said, no, like, I really would not like anybody. developing a relationship or a potential spending overnights with my kid who's a girl without me knowing about them or meeting them. And so she arranges a meeting for me and him. So we meet and just, I don't know, I was just very, look, I have a, I'm an ex-junkie, right? Like I'm like 12 years clean, but I had like a heroin. yeah okay and i have like a i'm like not that judgmental with this yeah but this guy was like he's like nothing wrong with tattoos but he's like literally covered in tattoos like you can't

see any skin like chain smoking super shifty like nervous like won't look me in the eyes like i was just getting like bad vibes all around yeah yeah and i was trying to give him the benefit of that a little bit, but basically I left that meeting with him. I was like, I told her, like, look, like, you've only known him like three months. You want to spend time with our daughter. Okay, but can we just wait another three months so that you will have known him six months before he gets introduced into like our daughter's life, right? She hates that, again, tells me how judgmental I am.

Like, he's just anxious. He's just nervous. Like a sort of side note here is that when I met her, I was using for like the first year that we met. Right. And she really helped me get clean. Yeah. And it was almost like, I don't know, sometimes I think maybe like she enjoys a project.

Well, or she just, I mean, sometimes it's not someone, it's not that someone enjoys it. It's that they're just wired in a way to attract the same kind of person. She might have something, you know, a story she's playing out. So most likely those things we do them over and over again. Everyone has a story. That's hers. Absolutely. And, you know what?

her dad was an alcoholic. Well, there you go. Yeah, there you go. So she's saving her father. She's doing for her, like she can't, she couldn't save her father. So she's doing that. Like, I'm going to bring up a funny thing, but it's, it's really true. Like, everyone's so crazy about this poor Prince Harry guy with Megan and they're talking

about, like, this was a little kid whose mother died for all of these reasons. And he probably felt very helpless that he couldn't protect his mother. So why not pick up? woman that he could protect and do all the things he's doing for her is what he wanted to do for his mother and probably that's very healing for him so why don't you leave him the fuck alone you know what I mean like it makes total sense in his life that he would pick a girl like that and do everything that he wished someone would have done for his mother so it's like this is what we do in life everybody does it I don't care if you're a prince or you're not or you're a fucking junkie we all you know live out the stories to fix what was done to us when we were children. And that's the way life is supposed to go. It's not wrong to do that. It's actually very healing on some levels.

So that's my little thing. I just don't mind saying it. You know, it's funny. It's like that is a familiar perspective that I think about a lot, except your twist on it that it's sort of healing in the end. I sort of never really thought about that. Yes, it is. It can be very healing.

You're writing the wrongs and you're figuring it out. It's the only way out of things is through them. And sometimes someone has to do it 15 times. Someone has to do it once. But you're working your shit out. That's what we're here for as human being. Sorry. And anyone that thinks that they're not is fucking lying to themselves.

Or you're just sticking. You're not ever going through things and you're never experiencing that and your life is perfect. Then you're not really doing the work that we're all here for. So fuck off all you perfect people that are judgy. Anyway. Yeah. No, I mean, this guy, you know, I mean, the guy kind of, it's funny. the guy

honestly kind of looks like her dad like smokes the same rolled cigarettes has like similar stature smells the same like it was kind of even when I met him

and I only met him once for like an hour and I was like oh my God it looks just like her dad in a lot of ways yeah I dated my father first my whole life and then when I was finally

got the guy that looked like my father and acted like he was like the top of the mountain the perfect thing even looked like him. I was so horny for him. When I really realized like years later that he was like spitting image of my father when he was young, I was like going to throw up. But I was like, oh, when I told that guy to fuck off and I was done with that, I had finally worked through my daddy issues. And then you know what? I dated afterwards? All guys that were like my mother. And then

when I finally was done with that, I'm like, okay, maybe now I could be with someone that I'm not reliving my fucking past. So that's very common. People do that shit all the time. So he even looked like her father. Now, did you do the background check on him? Yeah. So I met him. I was like, I don't know.

He's kind of shifting. Yeah. He had told me stories. He said, like, nothing I remember really clearly. He was like, yeah, like I used to have issues with drugs, but now I've been clean for five years except I smoke and drink, like smoke weed and drink. Yeah.

That's like you're clean, but you smoke weed and drink. okay, like, it's just not, I'm not like evangelical sober guy or anything. I have a very lot of tolerance, but it just was getting a bad vibe. But also I'm like super biased and I'm trying not to, I'm trying to give him the benefit of the doubt as much as I can, right? In some ways. And so I'm like, I asked her, like, just let me have his name and like, let me just do some basic background check on him. And so she was very reluctant to do that. and then finally she gave me his name.

So I put his name into Google and literally nothing is coming up. Like no Facebook, like nothing, nothing, nothing. I was like, what the fuck? And after about an hour, I figured out that his, the name was like, I tried a different name that was like associated with that first name.

Yeah, yeah. And then the very first thing that comes up in Google is one of these like police blotter things and it says there was like it's like man arrested for substance possession oh my goodness and it wasn't that long ago it was like maybe oh 10 months before it was like published in the paper and I was like what the fuck and I saw I just absolutely lost my mind and basically I thought at worst she gave she knows about this and gave me a fake name at best she doesn't even fucking know the guy's real name. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Which one was it? And she claimed that she just got his last name wrong and used his grandma's last name because that is what happened. That's how I figured it out. So to this day, she claims that she just didn't know and gave me the wrong name on accident. But that was only the first part of it. So once I found out about that, I found out that he had a relatively recent arrest for a domestic violence charge.

Oh. And then he had a couple other charges, like, over the years. But what were the other charges? He had a weapons charge. Oh, my God. And he had, you're trying to think. And he had, like, like, a theft, like a few theft. Oh.

And, you know, it's like over, like, a pretty long period. But the most concerning is that he had that drug charge from less than a year before and he had a domestic violence charge that I guess was serious enough that you got booked and had something like two years before. And so, um, anyway, I just fucking lose my mind.

Like, from where I'm sitting, like they just met, this was like some stranger she met online. They fell all in love after six weeks or something. She's asking, he's like spending all this time at my house. Like he,

she wants him around my daughter more. she wants him, she wants more custody of my daughter. So therefore, if they live together, which they do, they now live together, by the way. Effectively, this guy has more time with my daughter than I do. But wait a second, though. Okay, after you get all this information, you go back and tell her, right? How does she react? Yeah, yeah.

Okay. Right. So I go back to her. I get my employer involved. And basically, my lawyer writes. this is letter to her being like, this is like, like, I don't want him around my daughter. And I basically said that, like, look, I, oh, no, I think, I'm trying to think that so much just happened.

I said that if she, I said that I'm going to go for full custody of our kid or at least, not, I'm sorry, not full custody. I'm going to go for primary. and if she keeps going out with him because I feel like it's poor judgment that she's bringing somebody like that that she barely knows around my daughter and that she lied to me with the fake name. But how did she react to the rap sheet that he had that she didn't know about? Like when you said, hey, listen, he also has done physical violence. He's been caught stealing. He has this whole route.

Like, how did she react? She basically said that I'm, she said that it's all just a misunderstanding. Right, right, right. She can explain everything. I should have more tolerance for people because of my background. Yeah, yeah, okay. Right, right. And basically gave me some, like, sort of like, pretty detailed and frankly, possibly true.

I don't know. So I'll say elaborate stories where like something was like the neighbor called the cops and he didn't actually beat up the girlfriend, but he like caused property damage. She was so angry, but it was by accident. Yeah, yeah, I get it. I get it. Right. She's obviously still with him.

So she's still with him. So obviously she is, it didn't bother her. That's what I'm saying. Like, I don't know why I even ask that question. It's a waste of time. So wait, get back to it. So she tries to take. So, but because I do want to get to the point and we're already at an hour where

we talk about the fact that your, your family loves your girl, but has no idea that she's trans. I mean, this is all. Well, interesting to me, I could just do an hour show on like your relationship with your ex-wife and everything because it's so horrifying. It's, I do think, unfortunately, these kinds of things are common. What do you do? I mean, when she tried to get full custody, I mean, like, did the courts ever give that to her? Did you get more custody because of the situation?

I mean, how does it work? What went down? So basically what happened is I got angry. We had a lot of back and forth and arguments, and I got her family involved. I was trying to get them on my side. I got hired private investigators, blah, blah, blah. Eventually, I said, look, I don't want – nobody wants to go to court. I don't want a part of a kid through that.

You go to court. Your kid has to get a lawyer's horror. And I do – even after all this deep down, I believe she's a good mom. Yeah. And so I'm just like, look, I got to give her the benefit of the doubt if she loves this person. Right. It took like a year to get there, and it was very painful, but that's where we ended up. Okay.

And basically now they live together. They're going strong. And I just got to, like, trust that if something weird is going to happen, like, my daughter, who's very communicative and smart is going to tell me. Yeah. And that's the best I can do it. And it's funny, that was kind of like a, I don't know, that's maybe something I learned from, like, getting sober. It's kind of like one day of time. You just do what you can't, you know what I mean?

But give it what you can control or something. Yeah, that's the saying. Right, yeah. Let it go a little bit. Yeah, it's the truth, unfortunately. Because you'd go crazy otherwise. I mean, how, because you can't do, you can't change that scenario. So what are your choices, either to go mental sitting home thinking about it or to just let it go?

I think a lot of judgy people will start having comments about this. But like you, there's laws and stuff in place. I mean, you can't just say no. I mean, it's just... Absolutely. Yeah. It's a tough place to be. Yeah.

And you know what? If I'm really honest, like, yeah, of course I sort of hate the guy and in some ways I'm heartbroken over what happened. But also, we weren't great together. And like, if she's in love with him and he can be stable and she can fix him and it makes her happy, like I'm sort of... I'd come around to that. Yeah.

So now you're a girl. Now, okay, so now, the funny thing is is that your family has no idea right because your your girlfriend is very passable right 100% 100% yeah um yeah so so okay so things are growing with like we're still together yeah uh and so we start to like interact she's met my daughter like we our families have met um we we we uh my parents have met her they love her they love her her and everything's going great and our relationship is really

growing and ever since we met she knew my parents are religious but again they're not like super conservative like they're actually pretty liberal but still they're still like modern orthodox Jews from New York they probably never met a trans person

and they probably don't even know that many gay people or queer people whatever and so I just had no idea how to come out to them. And I still don't really. And I just went to Florida with them for a week, just me and them and my kid. And I really wanted to do it. There was a couple times where we were like, I don't know, talking about like how

DeSantis and like the gender stuff that has been going on politically there. and I really want to be like, listen, there's something I need to tell you about so-and-so, but I just couldn't do it. And I'm not really sure when or how I'm going to do it. Do you need to? Yeah. She was like, look, if I'm going to be my authentic self and get to know your parents, they should know who I am.

Yeah, that is important. Number one. Yeah. Number two, there have been quite a few sort of like funny, close calls, like where her mom came over for Passover. We're like hanging out. And I think somebody in my family is like, oh, like, it's so great that you don't have to have a daughter, like get to buy all the girls clothes, and like go to Girl Scouts, blah, blah, blah. And like her mom was just like, boop. Like, you kind of Yeah. Yeah, that does make sense. Yeah. It's just you can't be, you just can't like totally let your

guard down. Yeah. Just totally. It's like concealing something. I mean, not a bad way concealing, but you know what I'm saying. Yeah, of course. And I think from that. standpoint, she wouldn't like them to know. And I totally, so we can, don't have to, you can think about it when that stuff comes up. So now I think the plan is to tell them, I just, and I think it'll be fine, like anything else, like, they're going to be like a little bit shocked, but they're going to get used to. That's a big, that's a, that's a big thing I learned in this whole journey, right? Yeah. I was closeted for years. And then finally it started to come out. I'm not like publicly.

out, out, out, like, on my social media and stuff, but my friends know. And I came out with, like, my close guy friends, and they were like, that's cool. Like, nobody gives a shit. Yeah. At least where we are here. Like, at least, like, I'm lucky that, like, in New York City, like, like, people I know, it's like, it's like, oh, that's cool. Like, what was the weather like yesterday? Like, really, people care about, people care about themselves and what they're going on in their lives and their families. And that was, like, a big revelation. And so, even now, like when I'm like, in the beginning, like, I was like nervous, like, who's going to see me on this date with like, you die or like a trans person, whatever. Now I'm like, I don't care.

I'll go anywhere. In fact, I sort of enjoy like when I'm, so we have an open relationship now and sometimes I'm not like super active in it. But once in a while, like I'll meet up with someone. Let's say I'm like with like another trans woman. I almost like, like if I'm on a date with like a less. passable trans woman, I'll be like, yeah, like, let's go out. Let's like go to like a restaurant. Like, I don't care if my neighbor's seen me.

It's like I like that. Yeah, yeah. I feel like that, that, that it's kind of messed up, like less passable trans people. Or should be less accepted. Right. Yeah, yeah. I get it. Yeah, I think that's ridiculous that they should be, that they should go through that.

So you're eventually going to tell your parents. I want to know what goes down when that happens. Yeah, I mean, definitely I'll keep you close with it. Yeah, I love your whole story. I think it's super interesting. I could have spent three hours just on your divorce with your wife and all the stuff that happened with the guy and all. It's like it's just filled with so many layers.

And I think it's important because I think people will be able to relate. I think the first beginning and the opening of the relationship is a very great kind of like what not to do. when you open up. But I think in your life, I think you understand why it happened. And it did have its place. And you're only a year out, but five years from now, and you already see it,

is that maybe that ending was going to come anyway. And that just was the thing that helped you, was the catalyst. And you're happy with somebody else. She's happy with her person. And I'm happy because you gave me a great episode. So thanks. So much for calling it.

in Mark, this is a great story. Not a great story, but, you know, like, it'll be a great episode. It's not a great story for you, but you know what I mean. No, no, no. You're right. In the end, it's like, like, listen, it sort of had to happen, and now I'm sort of trying to live my authentic self and all of the

messiness that is involved with that. Exactly, exactly. And you really did change things up. I mean, really the last thing you have left is to tell your family. That's really the last. That's the only thing where you're not living authentically. And that's going to happen because you have to honor your girlfriend's wishes.

So I think it's really important the way she, it's more important the way she feels about it than you, right? Because it really is her story. So I think you got to do that to keep that relationship eventually going is, don't you think? Yeah, no totally. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I'll definitely keep you posted. Yeah, good luck with everything. Thanks so much, Mark, for calling in. This was great. All right. All right. Thank you. I just want to tell you before you go that my book, it's called Strictly Anonymous Confession, Secret Sex Lives of Total Strangers, is now available not only in paperback and e-book, but you can pre-order the audiobook. It's still not going to be out until August 25th, but you can pre-order it.

The book is basically 17 different stories taken from my show. I kind of picked one story from each category that I talk about on my show. Like there's a hot wife story. There's a hot wife story. a cuck queen story. There's a cuck story. There's a gang being girl story. Like I said, 17 stories. And they're all told in the third person. And they're all true. I took the interview and rewrote it in the third person. And I wouldn't really call it like a total erotica book. Think like penthouse letters. It's more direct. It's not so over the top like erotica. I don't really like that kind of vibe, right? But these are true stories. 17 of them. They're really short. chapters, easy read. You could read, you know, one or two and then skip around. You could read the whole

book. It's available in eback format, paperback format. And finally, the audio book is available coming out August 25th. But you could pre-order it now. And if you buy my book in any format or pre-order it, I will throw in a complimentary link to my Discord. My Discord does not disappoint. Okay. There's no way you get into my Discord any other way than getting the link from me. Okay, I give it to people who buy my book. There's tons of people in there. Everybody shares content with each other. And that's what you get to do there. You could post your own pictures and videos. There's tons of channels. We have lots of contests where you can win a lot of money. It's a super fun place to be. It's a total strictly anonymous community and you will love it. I will be giving anyone who buys my book

access to my Discord. It's private. Like I said, all you got to do is, email me a screenshot of your purchase, whether you did the audiobook, the ebook or the paperback. Send it to me at Strictly Anonymous Podcast at gmail.com. That's Strictly Anonymous Podcast at gmail.com. And I will send you the link to Discord. So anyway, thanks so much for tuning in. This is the Strictly Anonymous Podcast.