Strictly Anonymous Confessions - 664 - GIRL TAK: Kenya has Two Husbands and a PHd in Polyamory

Episode Date: July 21, 2023

Kenya K Stevens has two husbands plus many other partners plus a Phd in polyamory and she called in to talk all about it. When did her and her husband decide to open up their marriage? Why did they decide to be poly? And, how and why have they’ve been so successful? Tune in to find out plus hear how ad why they have been out and proud with their lifestyle since the get go, the first time she felt attracted to someone else and how she told her husband and how he reacted, how years later her husband brought up being attracted to someone else and how she then felt about it, how and why her husband thought an open marriage should be one sided and why she felt differently, how that led to them to starting their freedoms based lifestyle, what poly means to them and why, what they did before they started seeing people outside of their marriage and why those things were important, how and why they believe the most fearful and/or least interested person should be the first to take the plunge and why, how she met the first guy she did start dating and what went down with him, how her husband then fell for that guy’s partner and how she felt about it, how both of her husbands have other wives and how that is all set up, ,how and why polyamory was a hard time at first any why she believes that should be expected, why she believes rules are for fools and why protocols should be set up instead, why she believes in an egalitarian mindset as opposed to the monogamous ownership mindset, how and why she believes in divorce proof marriages and why they have to be open, the most important tings to do when becoming poly and why, how she explained her poly life to her children and how they felt about it, how to get your partner into being into becoming polyamory, and how and why she can help plus a whole lot more. Kenya K. Stevens is a relationships expert, love coach, best-selling author, wife, and mother of three. For the past 12 years, She and her husband, Carl Stevens built JujuMama LLC, now known as Progressive Love Academy into a worldwide love coaching conglomerate and online Love Academy. They have since been featured in EBONY Magazine, The Mo’Nique Show, The Michael Baisden Show, Fox News, Dr. Phil Show, Slut Walk, and over 100 Talk Radio and television shows. https://www.progressiveloveacademy.com/a/2147484776/TdhzSC5g **To see pics of KENYA plus anonymous pics of my female guests + hear anonymous confessions + get all the episodes early and AD FREE, join my Patreon! It's only $7 a month and you can cancel at any time. You can sign up here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.patreon.com/StrictlyAnonymousPodcast⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and when you join, I'll throw in a complimentary link to my private Discord! MY BOOK IS NOW OUT FOR PRE-ORDER!!!! Strictly Anonymous Confessions: Secret Sex Lives of Total Strangers. A bunch of short, super sexy, TRUE stories. GET YOUR COPY NOW: https://amzn.to/4i7hBCd To Join SDC and get a FREE Trial! click here: https://www.sdc.com/?ref=37712 or go to SDC.com and use my code 37712 Want to be on the show? Email me at [e-mail] or go to http://www.strictlyanonymouspodcast.com and click on "Be on the Show" Have something quick you want to confesss while remaining anonymous? Call the CONFESSIONS hotline at 347-420-3579. You can call 24/7. All voices are changed. Sponsors: https://bluechew.com Get your first month FREE! https://butterwellness.com/ Try the Butter Wellness perineum massager and use code STRICTLY for 20% off your entire order Follow me! Instagram https://www.instagram.com/strictanonymous/ Twitter https://twitter.com/strictanonymous?lang=en Website http://www.strictlyanonymouspodcast.com/ Everything else https://linktr.ee/Strictlyanonymouspodcast Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome to the Strictly Anonymous Podcast. Strictly Anonymous Podcast. Conversations with online strangers. We place ads online. The Craigslist is definitely like the gift that keeps on giving. Real people respond. You go to Singapore or Thailand. You can't not do it.

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Here is your host, Kathy. Hey, welcome to the Strictly Anonymous podcast with Kathy. If you want to follow the Strictly Anonymous podcast on Instagram or Twitter, follow the show at Strict Anonymous. If you want to be on the show, it's called Strictly Anonymous because I change everyone's voices. We change everybody's names. If you have an interesting, naughty, secret life that you want to talk about while remaining anonymous, you could be on my show.

But you could also be on my show if you're you, if you're out and proud and you live an interesting alternative lifestyle that you want to talk about like my guest today and you want to be on the show as yourself, which is always great. You could do that as well. If you want to be on the show, send me an email Strictly Anonymous Podcast at gmail.com or go to my website, Strictly Anonymous Podcast.com and click on Be on the Show or there's a banner that says like click here, just click there. It'll send me the email directly. If you just have a confession that you want to get off your back, you could leave your confession on my anonymous confessions line. You could call that number The number is 347, 4274-2-0-2-0-3-579.

That's 347-4-2-0-3-579. I change all the voices on those confessions, and they're all aired on my Patreon. Now, on my Patreon, you see anonymous picks of my guests, you get all my episodes early and out-free, and you get access to my private Discord channel where people are doing all kinds of naughty things over there. I don't take part in my Discord channel,

but it is now like a community where my listeners get to take part and talk to each other and share videos and pictures. And like I said, it's super naughty. It's fun. If you get, if you join my Patreon, you get access to my Discord to it. And it's only $5 a month and you could cancel it any time. And then you could come back at any time. I know there's never any questions asked.

I'm totally cool with that. And I understand. So listen, I want to get right to my guest today because she's fascinating. Her name is Kenya K. Stevens. She's the CEO of Progressive Love Academy. And Kenya has been into polyamory. for years, way before anybody even knew what Polly was. Kenya and her husband were talking about it.

Eventually they decided to open up their marriage. She currently has two husbands who also have other partners. She has plenty of other partners besides her husband. She talks about her whole journey. Like when she started to have those conversations with her husband, how they decided to move forward with it, how it worked in the beginning, how they set it up, why they believe rules are for fools.

That was something I had to write down because I was like, I love that saying. She believes rules are for fools, and she's here to tell you why. She now started, like I said, that Progressive Love Academy, where she teaches other couples how to be in successful polyamorous relationships. Now, when you hear her story, you'll understand why she is the one to teach that. She's been on TV. She's been out and proud with her husband talking about polyamory. Forever. And like I said now, she set up the Progressive Love Academy. She has a course called How to Get Your Partner into Polyamory. There will be a link to it in the description. But on this episode, what you're going to hear is her whole backstory, which is super interesting because her and her husband were not just open to polyamory. They did tantra. They were just like she said they were always like scientists learning. And they really were. They were always ahead of their time, always learning about different things. It was not.

easy. She says that it's not an easy thing to do, but they've been doing it for a long time. She believes in divorce-proof marriages. I mean, this is not something that broke up her marriage. Her marriages are fine. She doesn't believe in divorcing either, which is another whole fascinating topic. We touched a little bit upon it in this episode, but I'm going to have her back on to talk about that even more because she believes in that too. Her beliefs are super interesting. I love her progressive ways. I buy into everything she fucking says. I think, you know, 100 years from now, everyone should be living her life.

I believe in it, and I love her story. It's super interesting. She's wonderful. She's funny. She's cool. So I'm going to be right back on with Kenya. Kay Stevens, Progressive Love Academy. I'll put all of her links to everything in the description.

Hi, Kenya. Kenya Kay Stevens. Hi, Kathy. Welcome to the Strictly anonymous podcast. How are you today? Oh, Kathy. You, Kathy, Kay. I'm Kenya Kay. Oh yeah, you're right. KKKK. KK.

K.K. How are you? I feel great. It's lovely to be here. Yeah, well, listen, Kenya. I mean, while we were, like, waiting to start taping, you were, like, asking one of your husbands to do some stuff for you. And, I mean, you must be doing great because you have not one husband, but two husbands, correct? Yes, yes. And we are not anonymous. We are on national television. We've been Polly for 17 years. So I am very, very excited to have this discussion, non-anonymously. Yeah, I love that because I got to tell you, you guys are very ahead of the time, okay, considering that you guys were poly 17 years ago.

That's pretty major because even I've been doing my show for about eight years now, eight or nine years, I think. And in the beginning, it was like years before I heard from a polyamorous couple. And nowadays, I hear from a lot more people that are trying out polyamory. but in the beginning, like nobody was doing it. So you guys are really like ahead of your time. Well, it's the work that we did that pushed it to the forefront. We've been on 11 national television shows.

We have 12 books out about polyamory relationships. I mean, we have been pushing the mark. I remember my brother who plays for the NFL was like, Kenya, you're so smart. Don't talk about polyamory in public. Just talk about love coaching. I'm like, no, we're polyamorous. I don't care who's not talking.

about it. I don't care if the celebrities want to stay away from it, even though they're polyamorous as hell. I don't care. We're going to do it. And that's what we've done. Yeah. I mean, listen, it always takes people like you to really push things forward, right? Like those really bold people that are like, I don't fucking care. I'm going to be me. And you're the person that helps all these other people coming up that want to do it, right? Absolutely. We've helped thousands of couples transition to polyamory, but not without going through the shit ourselves. Right. Well, you have, you are the CEO of the Progressive Love Academy. So you do teach other couples how to become polyamorous. But let's start with your story. Like how did you wind up being out and Polly so long ago? Oh, my goodness. Well, I've been married for 30 years to date. But I got married when I was 21. So I was fairly young for a Gen Xer to get married. And my husband and I had a really candid conversation before we got married. he said to me, you know what, I think someday I might be the type to want to have several wives.

Wow. Now, at the time, you know, I said, okay, well, that's cool. You know, okay, I didn't have any other thought about it. I thought, okay. Yeah, you're young at 21. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're like, I think if you told a 37-year-old, that might be a little bit more horrified. But 21, I think you're still more open-minded.

I don't know, because that's a lot to take in. Right, being 21 years old, but he's also an MBA student. I'm an undergrad. He's getting his graduate degree. He's so responsible, so respectful, so everything else that I wanted in a husband. I just said, okay, I didn't even think it would ever come to pass, right? So at year four of our marriage, I was pregnant with baby number two, and I was at a community event, and I was painting a portrait on the wall with another man from the community. And we hugged each other good night.

And throughout my entire body, I felt the orgasm just rolling from my crown down to my feet. And I said, oh, my God, I just, I had a spontaneous orgasm. Has that ever happened to you? No. I'm like super jealous. I thought squirting was something that I needed to do. I get jealous whenever someone says they can squirt. Now I know that now I know that there's people out there that could spontaneously orgasm.

I'm like, now I want to do that too. come on oh yes it was so good and i went immediately home and i was just flabbergasted i didn't know what to do i had a dream about this man i started dreaming about him having wow like you know very sexual dreams and so eventually i told my husband it wasn't even a few weeks before i told him i said look this is what happened because i felt innocent i didn't i didn't have sex with him i didn't try to convince him to go on a date with me i didn't even talk to him anymore but i kept having these dreams. So I told my husband that this is what's happening. My husband ran directly to our marriage counselors and told them that this is what was happening. Our marriage counselors at the time

said, forget about it. You are in a monogamous relationship. This is not acceptable. This is not what you're supposed to do as if I was doing something. At last out check, I do not control my dreams. So yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyways, I felt really shamed by them by my marriage counselors. at that time. And I felt like that was just something naturally occurring. I wasn't a cheater. I didn't have a work husband. It's like I didn't even work. I was a stay-at-home mom. So I didn't understand why I was being ashamed. So eventually the dreams went away. After several years, they went away. Still nothing. But let me just point out that you are, you like went to school to be a child psychologist. So is that why you had like marriage counselors and stuff going on in your

relationship because that's like the world that you lived in? that is the world that I lived in and even my parents had marriage counselors. I just grew up raised to know that we need support. We are not island. Yeah, that's important. Huh? Okay, go on. It's not like you were having problems.

I mean, you just, this is how you knew that this, the best way to set yourself up for success. Right. We were not having marriage problems. It was just we knew, and we thought that was why, because we had counselors, we had coaches. And this is in the 90s. So, you know. But either way, time went on and 12 years down, now down the line, my husband comes home from work and tells me, hey, do you remember that experience you had with hugging the guy and you had this feeling? I feel like I'm falling in love with one of my coworkers in the same way.

Oh, my God. And I said, and my first thing, because we didn't have the marriage counselors anymore, and we were, you know, moving into our own sort of. philosophy on marriage. We really were. We were really becoming very freedom-based in our marriage. And so I said to him, I want to meet her. I want to meet this woman. So you don't have, but at that initial time, though, there's no jealousy or anything that comes up. Is that because you were, like, having conversations about being open before this? No, I felt jealous as hell. That's why I want to meet the baby. Oh, oh. Okay. It didn't sound like you're angry about it. That's so funny. Okay. You know, I was not.

angry. Jealousy is not anger. Right. Okay. Jealousy, yeah, jealousy means I want something. And at a year 12 in your marriage, you want the attention. Yeah. That, you know, my husband's coming home telling me he's in love. When's the last time he told me that he was in love with me? Yeah. Interesting. Okay. No. So, uh-uh. And I'm at home with kids. You can travel in the world having a good old time. No. So when he told me that, I did say I wanted to meet her and I did meet her. We all went out to dinner and he reminded me that before we got married, he said he may want to take several wives. He may want to explore polygyny. So we went out and I saw the young woman.

Now she was very different from me. I'm loud. I'm glamorous. I'm cute. I'm boisterous. I'm brave. This girl, she didn't know what tofu was. She asked my husband, what is this?

What is tofu? Then she was talking about, Well, I don't know. She just didn't know nothing. You know, and I immediately recognized that this was a different energetic from me. Interesting. This was something he might need, something he might value. So less threatening because it wasn't like someone replacing you.

It was something totally different. It was something totally different. That's what I realized. And it felt less threatening, but I was still mad as hell. Because when I had this experience, it was, he allowed our counselors to shut us down. I couldn't pursue it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So needless to say, he didn't pursue that young woman because I was just not having it.

You know, I said, we're going to talk about this. If you're going to be open, I'm going to be open. I'm from Detroit. I'm not going from somewhere where they do polygyny. If you're going to be open, I want to be open. Now, this was 2005. So not a lot of people were open. There were no poly groups.

There were no poly books. There was the ethical slut. Yeah, right. But that really had nothing to do with an. egalitarian ethical non-monogamous thing. There was no monogamish. You're right. So, you know, we talked about it for two years.

That's what we did, Cassie. We talked about it because when I said I wanted to be open as well, he said no. He told me no. But he wanted to still be? Like was he saying you can't be, but I can? Yeah. He was saying this is something men do. Right.

I told you this, and he kept falling back. I told you this before marriage. This is what men do. do. This is what I, I said, well, look, I understand what you're saying, and I don't believe that this is just something that men do. First of all, being married to you 12 years, I see that my sex drive is greater than yours. Now, maybe that's just you and I, but most of the men I've been with, I've wanted sex more than them. Have you experienced that, Kathy? Yeah, a lot of times I've talked about on my show. Most got my boyfriends, they'd just be like, oh, Kathy, please, like enough.

Like, you know, maybe I have a lot of testosterone. I don't know, but some women just roll that way. It's not always a match. And it doesn't necessarily mean it's always the guy that's more horny. That's what we're taught, though. We're taught that woman is the object of sex and man is the subject. Right. It's because he wants it and he desires it.

But I've had greater desire. And beyond that, let's not even talk about me. That's about science. Like, there's 7,000, nerve endings on a woman's genitalia. that they're less, far less on the man's genitalia, especially after he's circumcised. Oh, interesting. So how do we get the philosophy or the understanding that men is somehow sex is for men, or men want more sex or men want variety and women don't?

This is a standard narrative that does not add up when you look at individual women and our experiences. So needless to say, I just, we had this conversation that you and I are having over to years time. We had the conversation of why not and what's wrong with women having multiple partners and what would it do to your ego? And eventually he got to the point because we were studying tantra and his tantra masters were helping him understand the feminine and how the feminine should be free. Right. And, you know, he got to an understanding that, you know what? Maybe I don't want you to do it because your body and what you do with it is protecting my masculinity. And, you know,

And I'm standing on you being monogamous to me to count toward my level of masculinity. And that's not fair. Right. Interesting. And pretty brave of him to go there and understand it or very self-aware for him to see that. Yes. I just thought it was brilliant. It made me fall so deep in love with him, even deeper, you know.

And yeah, you said we were doing tantrum. We were doing yoga. We were doing meditation. We're very metaphysical. We've been in the spiritual community. You know, I had three home births. I had orgasmic births. Yeah, well, that's why you could do that orgasm with the hug thing.

Yes, baby. I got to take some of your classes. I'm a squirder. I was a bitch. Yeah. So that is where we ended out. And when he said that and owned that, because that takes ownership. Totally.

Brilliant. So he owned that. And that's when we moved into constructing our first sort of constant. or principles as to how we would create our freedom-based lifestyle. So how did that go? Because, and like, what's the difference between being polyamorous or being in an ethical non-monogamous relationship? Or do you see that as the same thing?

Oh, don't ask me. I don't see those as different. I don't see ethical non-monogamy, polyamory, or open-relating as any different. Right. But a lot of people have distinguished some differences that they see. I don't know what those are. For me, this is what I would tell you that I would think the difference is, and you're going to explain to me how it's different.

Or maybe you started out one way and then it progressed. But like I know a lot of couples, they open their marriage strictly because they want to have sex with other people. But they're their primary relationship. There's no emotional relationships being had outside of that primary relationship. And then I talk to the other people who are polyamorous and it's not, they're not just having sex with other people, but they're falling in love with other people. You know, they have intimate connections, you know. Everyone sets it up differently.

I mean, you have two husbands. You really are polyamorous. You're in love with two people. And then they also have partners, correct? Oh, yes. My husbands have partners, and I have more partners beyond just my husband. Right. So, yeah, polyamory.

So what are you defining that as? Polyamory, in my view, means many loves. That means it's non-gender specific, meaning the, a person with a penis or a person with a vagina can both have many loves. Yeah. Mm-hmm. So that's how I think of polyamory. Yeah.

So when you, though, when you're like talking to your husband in those beginning stages, do you think it's just about having orgasms with different people and just connecting that way? And then it progressed to like, let's have feelings. Or did you always know that it was going to be like, let's open this up to be able to love whoever we want? Oh, we always knew it was going to be about love. Right. Because the concept of just having sex with somebody, that's not, that wasn't feeling to me.

Right. I mean, that's the more like swinging. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We never went through a swinging phase. Not that swingers are bad. I love anybody for any of their choices, but we never did swinging. We knew that we would be formulating committed partnerships outside of our marriage. Right.

And I think that that's what polyamory is. It's just, you know, it goes beyond just a sexual kind of hookup outside of your marriage, right? It's more than that. Absolutely. absolutely yes yeah so because i have partners who i'm not sexual with at all but i still consider them my partners yeah because maybe i like to go skiing neither of my husbands like to go skiing well i like to go skiing with him and cuddle by the fire and maybe watch him make love with his wife or you know it's it's not about whether you're having sex or not with this person as to

whether or not you can formulate a relationship yeah yeah which i think is actually scarier like how did you guys decide to proceed forward once you decided to do it? I mean, because I would think that would be scary that, you know, if somebody sort of copped feelings for somebody else, it would put your own relationship in jeopardy. Or were you guys just so solid because you'd been together for so long and talking about it that you were ready to do it?

No, I think we were solid because we built our Constitution first. Yeah. So before we went into actual having sexual partners, emotional relationships, we created our constitution. First of all, we decided there were four steps to open love. Second of all, we decided that we have five governing principles for our marriage. And that sort of cemented us into an understanding that we could share with these other partners and say, hey, this is what we're about. I'm married, of course. This is how we conduct our marriage.

What do you think about that? So that's my first conversations with any outside partner. I think it would be more scary if I were just, okay, we're going to be open. now go ahead like we don't try polygap we never tried polygap and we wrote about polyamory we broke down the scientific psychological principles metaphysical principles of polyamory we we tested our theories and the ones that needed a tweak and we tweaked them we're scientists yeah yeah yeah yeah that's why you guys teach it now because you didn't just decide to open up and go out there because I think that's and that's why people like that's why you have this progressive love academy because you could teach other people how to do it the right way, right? Because I think the wrong way to do it is to

just do it and not know these things that you figured out because you were, like I said, ahead of your time. It's obvious that you guys were always digging deep and you had those kind of scientific minds, right? Other people don't have time for that, you know? Well, that's why we wrote about it and we make people go through, we let people go through it quicker than we did. Look, 12 weeks versus two years for us, you know, really 17 years of exploring and experimenting and writing. We're just now getting to the point where, okay, we're done writing. Yeah, that's amazing. So you decide you're both going to be, you're going to open up your marriage, you're going to be polyamorous.

And like, how does that, how does it go? Like who found the first partner? Well, he told me that I should go first. Okay. Because he was really, both of us, part of our philosophy now is that the least, interested person, the most fearful person, should go first. Oh, interesting. It shouldn't be the person who's like, yeah, let's be Polly, man.

Hey, let's get out there. It should be the one who's like, I don't know about this. Because I was just so afraid, Kathy. I was like, is he going to still respect me? Is my husband going to still love me? Is he still going to take care of me? Is he going to like completely lose his shit and just not be divorced me? I was terrified because I'm not.

never going to be a single mother. Like that was never. That's why I got married at 21 because I knew I want to have sex. Sex equal babies. I'm going to be with my man forever. And I got my wish. Yeah. But he let me go first. He said, I remember it just like it was yesterday. I was headed to a conference and I knew that the universe was leading me down this path. Me and my girlfriends go to a weekend conference. So of course, I met someone. So I'm riding in the car with a guy. I met. I met. I'm and I remember calling my husband because the guy got out to get gas. And I called my husband. I said, I met someone.

What should I do? He said, you should get off the phone with me and talk to him and see where things lead. Wow. And I said, no, I want you to talk to him. I was just going crazy like a little girl. Yeah. But what ended up happening is, yes, that was one of my first partners, one of my first boyfriends outside of marriage.

And immediately I wanted him to come home and meet my husband. And, you know, he was West Coast. We were East Coast. So we were flying by coastal for a while. And he did meet my husband. And, you know, it went great. But, you know, my husband had a hard time. He did.

But he didn't leave me. What people don't understand about polyamore is you going to have a hard time. Right. You're going to have a hell of a time. You see what I'm saying? Because you're literally rewiring your core beliefs. Yeah. And they're not just, I mean, these are like in you, without you even

realizing, right? I mean, it's just how we grow up, what we believe in, what's taught to us without even realizing it. Yes. TV, school, parents, everything, grandparents, holiday. Walking down the fucking street. Yeah. Yes. So it's not like, oh, yeah, we just going to try this. We went through hell. So my husband, I called home later that evening, and my children answered the phone. Now, my children are babies. They're like three, five, and seven. I say, where's daddy? They say, we don't know. I said, go find him. He's in the basement. Now, my husband doesn't drink. He wouldn't even let me drink on our honeymoon. He's down in the basement with a bottle of gin and a cigar and just going through his own process of releasing this conditioning.

Yeah, interesting. And he was the one that was more open to it. Yes. And I just admired his bravery, but I also wanted to be there in this time of need. So I supported him a little bit, but he said, don't worry about me. Continue doing what you're doing. I have to go through this process of release. Yeah, amazing. So that's happened. I couldn't have sex. Now, I could not have sex. I didn't have sex with this guy for a while in our relationship because it was just enough to be dating somebody else, you know? Yeah, that's interesting. Oh, it was crazy. So finally, after he met my husband, I would allow myself to have sex with him. That was great. He was also engaged, which I didn't know about. And my husband ended up liking his partner who was engaged. Now I had a

problem. Because this is the first time now he has somebody, correct? This is the first time my husband had somebody. And my process was much harder than my husband's process. He's more level-headed than me. You know, I'm hot-headed. So I just had big problems with her, big problems with them. They were together in our marital bed. How dare you guys sleep together in our marital bed? I'm never

sleeping in that bed again, you know? And how foolish was that? This is his marital body. I mean, what difference does it make where they sleep together? So these are the types of things that when you're first transitioning, you do want to set up rules. We had all these rules.

Later, we found that rules are for fools. They don't work. And the only thing that saved us. Rules are for fools. I got to write that down. Okay, go on. Later, our protocols and our principles saved us more than any rule could. Really?

In what sense? Like, what's the difference? Like, what do you mean when you say that? Be a little bit more specific. Absolutely. So with our clients, we say that rules are systems that you set up for somebody else to adhere to. Right.

Because your ego wants them to adhere to it. It's like some form of control, right? It's like you, yeah. It's a mild form of control that we think we're entitled to if we are in a relationship, right? Not true. You know, rules are meant to be broken. So protocols, the way we help our clients design protocols, is that these are principles that you set up for yourself so that you can let other people know, hey, these are my protocols. This is how I go about safe sex, for instance, or this is how I go about entry.

introducing new partners. This is how I do it. And so that they can understand your protocols. They can't set a rule for you. You can't set a rule for them. Right. But if you don't like their protocols, you all can discuss them and you can understand them more deeply. But I can't set a rule for a grown man. And a grown man can't set a rule for me, a grown woman. And you mean that even talking about your husband, right? And it's not just the other person that you're getting involved in. Is this also within the couple themselves? Rules are for fools? Absolutely. I would never set up a rule for my husband. It's not my place.

And he knows it's not his place to set up a rule for me. First of all, we trust each other. Yeah. So we work on trust more than trying to set up rules or some people call that boundaries. I don't have boundaries in that way. Right, right. Yeah. I mean, that's the way, if you're going to do it, I think the most successful way, right?

But like, were you already there? Or is this stuff that you figured out after you had these times like in the beginning where you were super jealous because he did fuck someone in the bed. I mean, was that a rule that you had or you had none even then? That was a rule. We set up a page. I set up pages of rules, baby. And none of it worked.

That was taking the monogamous mindset and going over into polyamory with that same mindset. And we couldn't, that was never going to work. Right. So in order to get into polymary, you have to let go of that monogamous. And you don't have to. If you want to have a success in the way that we have, it's conducive to shift over to a more egalitarian mindset. Rules are based on ownership and possession. We don't want to bring ownership and possession of philosophy into polyamory or freedom-based relating.

Yeah, but that's a very progressive way to be. I think a lot of people aren't there. That's why they need help, you know. Right. That's why we're Progressive Love Academy. Yeah. Yeah. Of course.

Yeah. It makes sense because a lot of people I think need help to go there. You were always very spiritual people. I used to always believe when I saw like swinging documentaries years ago, like I always felt like to be really evolved would be to get to the point where you don't feel like you own someone sexually, right? Like I always felt like that was the top of the mountain in evolution. But for you, you're taking it even a step further. It's even with love and your emotions and your vulnerability, I mean, being completely without ownership at all. Yes.

Which that's major. Oh, yes. That was major. As I said, it took many, many years of work. We even had to develop communication systems that work because we found even the communication, it's inherent in the Western communication, which I call the language of war. Yeah. English communication, the way that we talk to each other, it's like, well, you did this. Well, you're home late.

I don't appreciate that. That's disrespectful. So we're accusing within the very language that we think we're communicating. That's not a communication. That's just an accusation. That's a sentence. Right. You see what I'm saying?

And they even call it a sentence. You're right. The period next to your sentence. Why are we sentencing others? Yeah, put on. So we had to even, we had to rewrite the English language and reorder how we talk to each other. You know, some therapists and psychologists say,

well, we have a communication issue. Well, what are they talking about? We all know vocabulary. Yeah. We all are talking. In fact, we talk in loud. So what's the communication issue? We figured out what those are,

and we had to in order to shift over to polyamory. But how did you get out of that monogamous mindset when, you know, everyone around you has that word? How did you get to a place where you threw, everything that you ever learned off the table and decided to live in the minority and be non-monogamous? Well, this is going to sound like woo, probably for some of your listeners, but we started to pull apart the difference between like the higher self, the ego, and the animal. So we realize that the ego, yes, the ego is where these beliefs and stories are stored.

Yeah. Now, do we want the ego to be sitting on the throne of our consciousness? No, we don't. What would the higher self think, the limitless self? Yeah. Think about the concept that you own this person's heart or you own this person's mind. That would be ridiculous to the higher self. The higher self says we are all one.

Nothing is wrong. Nothing is against me. You know, I am all powerful. I can create what I want. You know, nobody's doing anything to me. So those are higher self principles that we started. And then also you have to find the root to your story. stories. If I have a story that, well, if you didn't text me back, that means that you don't love me.

Is that true? Where is that story coming from? Who didn't talk to you as a youth? Where do you start to get the trauma around somebody not responding to you right away? Where is that trauma born in you? Okay, let's deal with the root and stop looking at all these instances that prove the root to be true. Let's just dig up the root. Yeah. What about the root of like that thing that most people believe that if you, your partner wants to sleep with someone else or you allow them to sleep with someone else, it means they don't love you. Like they can't love somebody if they're having sex with somebody else. I mean, a lot of people believe that. Right. And that's an easy route. That root is the big three religions. That route is television. That route is probably in your own home. You know,

that root is also with your sexual training. Your mother told you if you were a girl, don't give it up. Don't open your legs because you will not be respected. So, you say well is that go from men too and nobody ever answers that question but there's a lot of roots to that you got to dig up that whole bad baby because none of that was true right yeah you know and when I say true what do I mean true not true based on a religious doctrine but true based on our higher limitless self right a higher self says there's nothing wrong with you there's nothing wrong with desire there's nothing wrong with sex sex is sacred and and there's nothing wrong with me loving more than one person we can see that root is not true we look at our kids we love them all yeah you're right yeah

yeah but and you have two husbands like when do you wind up meeting that second husband or did you have multiple husbands or have you always just had these two i i i have two husbands right now but i had have had many experience a lot of people always say well how many men you slept but it's uncountable i love relationships high five you if you were here i'm proud of my number, baby, because it's infinite. Yeah. It's fucking great. So, you know, with my husband, I met him in 2014, my second husband.

So that's after I've been through many poly relationships, women moving into my house, men moving into my house, us having community. You know, we went through a lot before I met a man who was ready to really join my family. Mm-hmm. And that was a beautiful thing. Now, it wasn't beautiful for him because it took him five years to say yes. Oh, your husband, your second husband. My second husband, yeah.

Now, was he married? Because I know that one of your husbands has another wife as well. Like, was this the guy that is married to somebody else? Was he married then? Yes. Both of my husbands have other wives. So my hubby number one has been married for two years to another beautiful woman who lives right down the street.

And he's there two weeks and here two weeks. and here two weeks. And then my second husband was married prior to me meeting him, but they were separated. And for all intensive purposes, divorced. So I helped him and her get back together and raise their child. And I became such great friends with her. You know, we got her house so that she could be on her feet. So, yeah, I love her.

I love all their other wives. Yeah, that's amazing. So he's back married with her as well, as married to you now. Well, I would say they're co-parenting, but they never got, they never got a divorce like that. There's no need to get a divorce to be with you. Oh, yeah, you do.

I have to say, a whole other thing. I wanted to focus on polyamory because I've just had so many calls with polyamorous people. Some gone right, some gone wrong, you know, but, but you do have a whole thing that you talk on, which is like a divorce-proof marriage, which is a pretty major thing to sort of stand for, right? because I feel like it's like the opposite of like what a lot of really progressive people might think, right? It seems almost like the opposite of progressive. Like some people are like, leave somebody if they cheat on you or it's like worse to stay than to leave.

Well, sure. Leave somebody because they might cheat on you doesn't sound progressive to me. No, I know. But this is what's so interesting about the way you see things. You see them so different than most what most people say. You know what I mean? Like they would think it's like losing your power by staying. But you see a different.

I see it much different. It just needs a new relationship contract. You know, you needs new tools. You know, nobody means to cheat on the other. But the concept that you did that, we have to dig in and see how that happened in this marriage and how to reformulate the marriage so everybody is getting their needs met. So everybody's because some people say cheating's not about getting needs met. It's just a power move.

Okay, we need to reformulate the marriage so everybody feels powerful. Yeah. We have to reformulate the marriage. marriage and polyamory can be a part of that. Most of my divorce-proof marriages become polyamorous marriages. Oh, okay. So they remain kind of open. Yes, they have to open in order to divorce proof themselves because the divorce comes from feeling like, oh, my gosh, I'm stuck with this person. I'm stuck not getting my needs met. I'm stuck with the arguments and the disease. You know, okay, let's end all of that. You're not stuck with anything.

You're going to learn tools, technologies, techniques to help you uproot these ill-fated beliefs. Then you're going to learn how to have a freedom-based marriage. And then you won't, there's nothing to fight about. I haven't had a fight in years. Yeah. Fight about what? Yeah, you're right. If you really think about a lot of the fighting is, you know, even if it doesn't seem

like it's about the fact that you can't fuck somebody else, sometimes it is. You know what I mean? Those little nitty, gritty things. It's because, you know, maybe your wife's sick of blowing you. But maybe if you had a girlfriend and she blew you, you'd be happier, you know. Right. Yeah.

And I wish it was that simple, but it's the communication pieces at the core. None of my couples are allowed to become polyamorous until they master authentic communication through my systems. So there's no way to just jump into poly without authentic communication on deck. Right. Of course. And you guys know that because, like I said, it sounds like you guys, you didn't jump into it. I mean, you were talking about it for a really long time.

There were signs there. He mentioned things. You mentioned things. But you guys really didn't dip your toes into it until you were, like, married for how long? We were married for 17. No, we were married for 12 years when we started that discussion. Yeah. And at year 15, we opened.

Yeah, that's major. And then how long into it did you get your second husband? Wow, that was recent. As you saw on seeking brother husband, our reality series, we just got our marriage, official marriage ceremony in 2022. But I've been with him for 10 years. Yeah. Yeah, that's major.

Now, do you ever have relationships with women or only with men? I would love to have relationships with women, but I don't. I'm not that lesbian. And I really don't feel confident in my lesbianism, although I really love women's bodies. I love women's softness. And I love planning women's hair. But I can't, I haven't had a lesbian encounter.

since I was maybe 10 or 11 years old. Right. But are there any threesomes that are going on in these kinds of scenarios or is it just, or do you keep your relationship separate? In our scenarios, no. My husbands would never lay down in the same bed with me. They would think I was crazy if I asked them to do that. And I don't typically get with their partners.

However, I had a girl who really liked me. She lives in Los Angeles. Yeah. And she came to see us here in Houston and she, myself and my second husband shared a bed. In fact, I hooked my second husband up with a lot of my friends because he's fray sexual. So fray sexual, you've heard of that term, right? Yeah. Yeah.

So because he's fray, it's really enticing when I can set him up with somebody because that gets his she and his juices flowing for me, baby. Could you explain what that is, please, though? Sure. Frey sexuality is when. you are the type of asexual person who prefers to be in new relationships or relationships where you don't know the person that well. That's more enticing. Once you know somebody well, if you're fray, you don't have the sexual attraction as strongly.

Oh, my God. I think I was fray sexual when I was younger and then it switched. But I thought I had fucking issues. I don't know. You know, it's so interesting. A lot of people who are afraid think they have those issues. But he has, you know, he's really afraid. advocate. So, and then I do the things that phrase need, you know, he needs space, he needs time,

he doesn't want to make love every day. He, I want him, you know, to have his adventures and come back to me, ready to give me a little something, you know, but this is not, that's what we mean about polyamory. His and mine is not purely sexual relationship. Yeah, yeah. He's very sexual. Yeah. And I mean, he's not giving you all your needs. I mean, it's not like you're waiting around because you also have your needs met wherever you want. I mean, there's no sort of boundaries. It is boundaryless. Exactly. Yes.

Now you're thinking progressive, Kathy? No, listen, I think everyone should think fucking progressive. I've always been like, I mean, there wasn't that word polyamory when I was growing up, but I always felt like polygamy or something other than what was being dished to me. Even when I was younger, I was like, this is like a crock of shit. You know, I don't know. I just never bought into it. And I just always felt like it's so sad that we grow up in the society where it shoved

down our throats. And in a way, we barely have a choice because it's just how we grow. up, but I felt like, oh, a hundred years from now, it would be so beneficial for women not to be taught this bullshit. Because I really think that, like, monogamy and the way it's set up is really worse for women than men. Because I think it really pits us against each other. I just think it's not helpful for women. So I think it's not helpful, but it's not helpful for men either because look at the in-sale movement. The in-cell movement is about nobody will fuck us. Okay. If you tell every woman who's fucking that she's a slut.

If you say that a woman who's fucking is for the streets. Yes. If you say that women who are free women and centrally open are whores, then how do you think you're going to get late? It's like a schizophrenic dichotomy that's happening there. And it's not good for men. And you're right. It's not good for women.

No. You know how many times when I was younger, because I would just kind of like fuck whoever I wanted. And you know, I'm 54. So when I was younger, most girls, didn't have sex unless they were in relationships. I just kind of did what I wanted. And I can't tell you how many times my guy friends would be like, you know, Kathy,

you're not the type of girl you marry. Like, you're the type of girl you fuck. And like so many of my guys that I dated were like they love to fuck me, but they didn't really want to ever take me seriously. But, you know, shouldn't girls be allowed to express that? I wasn't any different than any other girl. I was just more out of the box and just did whatever the fuck I wanted. But you think other girls don't have those same sexual.

desires and those same needs that I had. I mean, come on. It's ridiculous. Right. Oh, that's such a good story. I love you for persevering through that. And we are shifting that. My daughter's 22. She's also a polycoach. And she is big time online. Spreading word. I love that. It's changing. I think it is very different now. And the younger generation is so amazing. I think it's very different, which is great. But I think that there's still so many people alive that were born when I grew up and they need your help. because this is what you guys have been not only teaching this, but living it, way before most people had the balls to, which is amazing. Thank you. It's been a journey, and I really love it. I love that you're doing the strictly anonymous to let people talk out about what they're doing.

So we start to normalize the fact that you understand, 66% of those married today are cheating. There's a cheating site called Ashley Madison. Let's not play games. I had that guy on. The CFO was on my show to talk about it. I have a podcaster friend who's in the sexuality category and she won't have anyone on who has cheated it. I'm like, why not? I think it's important to hear those stories. You know, it's important to get the fucking truth out.

It's sad that there's people living double lives and they have to remain anonymous on my show. But the whole point of them coming on is so that other people, A, don't feel so alone. And be that we start to normalize this kind of stuff and people know what that is really happening, you know? And so that people don't eventually have to cheat. you know, down the line.

Right. And bust their family apart, which is not necessary. My kids, my three kids, everybody always asked them on every show, hey, what do you think about your parents being Polly? And they say, well, considering all of our friends' parents are divorced. Yes. We're very happy about our parents. Well, tell me a little bit about that, though.

Like, when do you wind up telling your children and explaining to them? Or was it like, oh, they were young and it just, this is what they just kind of saw and you never like had to sit them down or like what were those conversations like with your children well some of both we have never believed in lying to our children we don't understand why people lie about sex or yeah yeah yeah that they are having sex or the fact that they like sex or you know we've never understood that so we've always told our kids the truth we we were starting our poly journey when our youngest was four so clearly he's not of age to have a discussion about it but our seven and nine year old yes

they were of age to know that mommy has other partners, boyfriends, daddy has other partners, girlfriends, you're going to meet them, you're going to, you know, you're going to understand our lifestyle. And it's way different from divorcing. We are together. We'll be together forever. And that's what you all can know about this, you know. Any questions? And they always had questions and we always answer them directly and honestly. And now how about like the neighbors or the people at school or the other moms, you know, when your kids were younger. I mean, I'm assuming that just people always kind of knew because you were out and proud. I mean, did you get like a lot of backlash for it?

Well, yes, but I didn't understand the backlash because I'm a warrior. Like, you don't want to backlash me because I say, well, wait a minute. Who are you talking to? Like, what are you talking about? Look around. Look around. We had a neighbor one time who was a lesbian couple. and they found out because everybody could find out.

We were on Instagram when it opened, 2011. Facebook when it opened, 2007. Polly, Polly, Polly. Yeah, yeah. So in terms of this neighbor, lesbian couple came over and took their daughter home and never let the daughter come back because we were Polly.

Now, this is a lesbian couple. Is that so hilarious? I said, wait a minute. Now, hold on. Which logic are we using? Where is the critical thinking there? Yeah. Non-existent.

Yeah, terrible. But I believe it. But have you seen it change, though, over time? Like, even in your own coaching business, like, where you're seeing more people opening up to this kind of lifestyle? Absolutely, Donald. We've created the change. We've watched it since the beginning. We were on Dr. Phil with people throwing pies at us.

We were on Rickillet's shows, Fox News. Yeah, Dr. Phil. What about fucking Dr. Joe? I heard him recently, and I was, like, so turned off because I always loved him. And he was talking about like opening, like open marriages and how it never works and they always have issues. And I'm just like, he doesn't, he doesn't, I have plenty of people on my show that have open marriages and they're fine. And, you know, I just think that some people have such an outdated view of it. I was a surprise with him.

But you were on all those shows. Oh my gosh. Yes. And Dr. Phil lost his title of doctor. Doctor is a stage name now because he was de-licensed for actually flirting with his, with his secretary. So what is he talking about? Yeah. See, he got mad at me on the show because I said, Dr. Phil, what would happen if you came home and told your wife that you were just attracted to somebody at work?

She would hit me over the head with a pan. And I said, that's what, so you're saying that you cannot be authentic in your relationship. Yeah. And you are coaching love. Right. And so he got mad at me. Yeah, that's awesome. So listen, give out all your information.

I think you're fucking great. I think, listen, I get a lot of people emailing me looking for help on certain things. And I'm always like, I don't really give advice. You know, I have people on and you can learn from my episodes. But I think you guys, you're like the real deal. You have courses, right? I mean, you have a website. You have books.

Why don't you give like your whole pitch to everything that you offer? Absolutely. If anyone wants to think about, consider polyamory, you should start at progressive love academy. There's a free manual, the four steps to open love. And then there's also a link that you could share for how to get your partner. into polyamory. If you think my husband would never consider this, all of my clients say that. They all say, my wife would never, and of course we do. So that's the magic of progressive love, the step by step, the easy walk, the safety involved in our coaching. But definitely follow me on

Instagram, Progressive Love Academy. And we have books. Yeah, you can go to Amazon and pick up the art of open relating, also the nine expressions of love or up-level communication. Just Google my name, Kenya K. Stevens. You'll probably find a lot of stuff. Yeah. And you also on that same, you know, on your website, you have that whole divorce proof. I mean, I feel like we need to do a whole other episode on that. Your whole divorce-proof marriage, course, you have something on that as well, right? Absolutely. That's a 12-week intensive course for couples who really want to stay together. and do the serious work, hard work of reconstituting their relationship, you know,

changing the relationship, upgrading the relationship, yes. Right. And now, so for that, how to get your partner into polyamory, that's like it's only one person. They don't even have to be at the place yet where the other person has signed on. I mean, this is like the really beginning step. Like, if you're thinking you want to do it, this is something you could get that will help you start those conversations. Yes, that's the first step.

Watch it with your partner who's not ready. Watch it alone. Yeah, that's interesting because the partner that isn't ready, I think it was really interesting when you said in the beginning, like how that's the partner who should do the first steps. Because really you have to wait for that, like both have to be on board and in the same place, correct? That's why you let that partner do it first, right? Yes.

That's why we created that technology of allowing your partner to do it first. And there's several more tricks, but they explained, are explained in that. first video. Right. So I'm going to put links to everything. I love you. You're hilarious. I could see why you've been on TV a lot because you're just like funny. I love what you have to say. You're fucking balzy. You're very ahead of your time, which I think is amazing and needed. You know, I mean, there's not a lot of people 17 years ago that were doing what you were doing. So you've really helped people, you know, already. And now you're going to help my audience. So if anybody wants to take your course and find all of your information that you just gave. I'm going to put all your links. I'm assuming you have a link tree to maybe I could put that in my

description as well as the link to your polyamory course. I do. Absolutely. Yeah. I'll share everything with you, but thank you so much. This is just such a beautiful platform. And I'm so happy that there's people in the world like you doing what we do. No, but you and you're all your husbands and everybody and your daughter coming up. I love that she's following in your footsteps and I think it's great. Thank you so much for coming on and sharing your story. You're not only teaching you lived it. It's fascinating your story and I will include all your links. So thank you. Thank you so much. Okay, I just want to tell you before you go that my book, it's called Strictly anonymous confession, secret sex lies of total strangers is now available, not only in paperback and ebook, but you can pre-order the audiobook. It's still not going to be out until

August 25th, but you can pre-order it. The book is basically 17 different stories taken from my show. I kind of picked one story from each category that I talk about on my show. Like there's a hot wife story. There's a cuck queen story. There's a cuck story. There's a gang being girl story. Like I said, 17 stories. And they're all told in the third person. And they're all true. I took the interview and rewrote it in the third person. And I wouldn't really call it like a total erotica book. Think like penthouse letters. It's more direct. It's not so over the top like erotica. I don't really like that kind of vibe, right? But these are true stories. 17 of them. They're really short. Chapters, easy read. You could read, you know, one or two and then skip around. You could read the whole book.

It's available in eback format, paperback format. And finally, the audiobook is a. available coming out August 25th, but you could pre-order it now. And if you buy my book in any format or pre-order it, I will throw in a complimentary link to my Discord. My Discord does not disappoint, okay? There's no way you get into my Discord any other way than getting the link from me. Okay, I give it to people who buy my book. There's tons of people in there. Everybody shares content with each other. And that's what you get to do there. You could post your own pictures and videos. There's tons of channels. We have lots of contest where you can win a lot of money. It's a super fun place to be. It's a total strictly

anonymous community and you will love it. I will be giving anyone who buys my book access to my discord. It's private, like I said. All you got to do is email me a screenshot of your purchase, whether you did the audiobook, the ebook, or the paperback. Send it to me at strictly anonymous podcast at gmail.com. That's strictly anonymous podcast at gmail.com. And I will send you the link to Discord. So anyway, thanks so much for tuning in. This is the Strickley Anonymous podcast. Hey, everyone. Thanks so much for tuning in to this week's episode. If you want to follow the show, follow me at Strict Anonymous on Instagram or Twitter. That's at Strict Anonymous.

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