Strictly Anonymous Confessions - 698 - Joey Panama is a Black Bull with a Huge D
Episode Date: October 2, 2023Joey Panama is a bull with huge d and he called in to talk all about it. When did he become a bull? Why did he become a bull? And, what does he enjoy most about being a bull? Tune in to find out plus ...hear all about how he was hyper sexual from a really young age and always curious about the lifestyle, how and when he realized he had such a huge d, the first mmf threesome he had with his friend and his girl that turned him on to the bull lifestyle, how he then went on to Reddit and became super popular with couples, how and why he felt objectified at first, the f-ed up race play requests he would get and why he wasn’t down for it, the one couple who made him climb through their window and what he did once he was inside, how “variety” is the reason why he loves being a bull the most, how he’s always honest about what he does while dating and how his dating life has been effected by that, how far he will go when it comes to guy on guy action, how the communication goes down when he’s setting up the threesomes, the vetting process he came up with and why he uses it now, how and why he is much more pickier now that he’s been doing this a long time, what he looks for in a couple and what he’s not looking for, how and why he decided, as he said “to turn his fun into funds” and sign up for Onlyfans, the content creators he created with on there, what he offers on his Onlyfans plus a whole lot more. You can find him on Onlyfans here: onlyfans.com/joeypanama and on twitter @JoeyPanama1 and Reddit @JoeyPanama **To see anonymous pics of JOEY PANAMA plus see anonymous pics of my female guests + hear anonymous confessions + get all the episodes early and AD FREE, join my Patreon! It's only $7 a month and you can cancel at any time. You can sign up here: https://www.patreon.com/StrictlyAnonymousPodcast and when you join, I'll throw in a complimentary link to my private Discord! MY BOOK IS NOW OUT FOR PRE-ORDER!!!! Strictly Anonymous Confessions: Secret Sex Lives of Total Strangers. A bunch of short, super sexy, TRUE stories. GET YOUR COPY NOW: https://amzn.to/4i7hBCd To Join SDC and get a FREE Trial! click here: https://www.sdc.com/?ref=37712 or go to SDC.com and use my code 37712 Want to be on the show? Email me at strictlyanonymouspodcast@gmail.com or go to http://www.strictlyanonymouspodcast.com and click on "Be on the Show" Have something quick you want to confesss while remaining anonymous? Call the CONFESSIONS hotline at 347-420-3579. You can call 24/7. All voices are changed. Sponsors: https://bluechew.com Get your first month FREE! https://butterwellness.com/ Try the Butter Wellness perineum massager and use code STRICTLY for 20% off your entire order Follow me! Instagram https://www.instagram.com/strictanonymous/ Twitter https://twitter.com/strictanonymous?lang=en Website http://www.strictlyanonymouspodcast.com/ Everything else https://linktr.ee/Strictlyanonymouspodcast Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
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Welcome to the Strictly Anonymous Podcast.
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Hey, welcome to the Strictly Anonymous podcast with Kathy. If you want to follow the strictly
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that's 347, 4203579. You could call that, like I said, I think, 24-7. You have four minutes to leave a message. Make sure you're in a quiet place and you speak clearly. All of those anonymous confessions are aired on my Patreon. Now, my Patreon is a really great place because for just $5 a month, and you're going to get all the anonymous confessions. There's hundreds of them. You're also going to get all the anonymous picks of all of my guests. Basically every single girl except maybe.
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Joey Panama is going to be on there. You could see him in all his glory.
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Now, if you're driving or you're listening and you didn't take down any of that information,
I just said, don't worry about it. It's all in the description. Now, today I do have on Joey Panama.
Joey Panama, and he's like a bull. He's got an interesting story. He was just like a hyper-sexual kid
who realized at some point that he had a really big dick.
And because he's hypersexual, he really likes variety.
He needs it.
He's not down to be bonogamous.
He wants to fuck a lot of girls.
And the way he realized he could do that is putting himself out as a bull and pimping himself out to couples.
And we talk about how that happened.
There was a first MMF threesome that he had that was sort of like his gateway into it.
We talk about that threesome.
And then we talk about how it went from there.
He went on to Reddit and he started getting hit up.
He talks about the racial aspect of what he does.
He does have a big black cock.
I mean, it's fucking huge.
And a lot of couples hit him up for that.
He talks about that whole process.
He's been doing it now for a couple of years.
He has an only fan.
He's big on Reddit.
He's on Twitter.
He's much more selective on the couples that he hooks up with now because he can be.
He talks about what he looks for, what he wants, what he does.
want how old he'll go, how young he goes, and what he looks for, he's done gangbings, Bukaki
gangbings, but really what he prefers is the MMF threesomes. And he explains why those are his favorite.
We end with him giving a shout out to his only fans. He talks about what you get there.
He offers like a lot on his only fans. Okay. So wait till you hear what he's got there. I mean,
he's got like a two minute clips. Okay. He's got like 30 minute clips. And he talked specifically
about that how he went from doing this just for fun he says to doing it for funds and that's what he does
now his name is joey panama you're going to love a story it's interesting he's cool he's young he's
only 35 and he's hard at work and he's made this like his gig i will have all his links in the description
he sent me anonymous picks for my patreon plus he'll be on my discord so if you want to see him there
sign up. I'm going to be right back on with
Joey. Hi Joey Panama. Welcome to the
Strictly Anonymous podcast. How are you today?
I'm Will. How are you doing? I'm good. My audience knows
I've been fucking sick for a week. I have to air all the sick ones like right in a row
because if I aired you like two months, but now people would be like, wow,
Kathy's sick all the fucking time. But I've been sick for a while. I'm taping you.
Now listen, Joey Panama, you're calling you Joey Panama because that's like your name,
your stage name maybe quote unquote. I don't know. I saw.
you on Twitter and you just go on to Twitter and there's your big cock fucking somebody.
You're like a bull. You're black bull, okay? You're kind of young. How old are you? How old are you, Joey?
I'm 35. Yeah, you're 35. Okay. So I want to know how did little Joey, a little seven-year-old
Joey, grow up to be Joey Panama, you know what I mean? Like how do, did you turn into this black
bull? And is it cool to say black bull? I mean, is the whole interracial thing a big part of what you do?
Yeah, it mainly is. I don't have that many
couples. There's only been like a very
small handful, but it's always
interracial. It's always white couples hitting you up.
Yes. White, Hispanic.
Yeah. Okay, let's go all the way back
though. Like how did you get into this kind of thing?
Because I mean, there's got to be a point where you're just like
dating, banging girls. And how do you, it's not like, it's like
a big jump. How did it happen?
So basically, a friend of mine asked me to join him and his baby mama for a threesome.
And I was, like, skeptical about it, a little suspicious, just wasn't really sure that they were serious.
But they were serious.
They lived in another city, like small town outside where I stay at.
It was like almost two hours away.
Basically went there.
It was during 2020.
during the pandemic pretty much the peak of the pandemic.
Oh, so this is new for you kind of a couple years old.
Yeah, it's still new for me.
Yeah, I've experienced like a lot.
No, no, I know that.
I see it on.
You could see it on Twitter.
I mean, there you are.
I can't believe this shit you could see on Twitter.
Yeah, yeah, it's the reason why they named it X.
It's all boring.
Yeah, exactly.
It should be triple X.
Okay, so go on.
So they're living far away, but your friend just calls you up one day.
It was like, hey, you want to fuck.
me girl yeah pretty much so um i went over there and we did our thing and it was like easter
weekend to be exact back in 2020 and yeah that was yeah april and then so i i was just pretty much
like ecstatic about this i was like oh shit because like i've had three since before but i haven't
done it like in a long time so i was like shit i need to tell somebody so i told one of my best
friends about it and he was like oh shit well i could tell you about like reddit and so i got on
Reddit and I basically met more couples there. Literally got on like in May and then hooked up with
three couples within the same, well, with all in the same week actually. But like one of those couples
I saw twice like on a Thursday and then I saw them again on a Saturday. So I actually had sex like
four times during that week. But I feel like I just kind of like got in the game and then just got
rushed to the front line. It was like all of a sudden just people started hitting me up like constantly.
It was just kind of like a regular thing.
Like a fast track though.
But I mean, were you always vanilla?
I mean, you said you had some threesomes.
I mean, no.
I've been like always intrigued by sex and like group sex and stuff like that.
And yeah.
I just, yeah.
Yeah, that's what I'm getting at.
So there was something inside of you even before that threesome that was open to the lifestyle,
curious about the lifestyle.
Like you were waiting for that moment to jump in.
Yes.
now your friend that hit you up did he hit joey up because he knew joey was down for this because i wonder why
your friend from two hours away didn't just call someone who lived down the block why did he call
joey i mean were you the there was nothing so it's it's a small ass town when i went there
like when i got there my service and my phone started going out and then and then he wasn't even
answering his phone and i'm just like you got to be fucking kidding me i'm gonna have to turn around
drop back home and shit
with nothing to show for it
Oh that's funny
So everybody is two hours away from him
Yeah pretty much
Yeah
Like on my way there
He was all of a sudden
Oh can you get like some dodo
All this sex stuff
And I'm just like
Why would you wait till the day of
When I'm going to do that
Because he told me about this
Two months prior
So like on the day of going there
He's all
Oh could you get this?
Could you get that?
And I didn't get any of that
All I got was Lou
Yeah, but if this was COVID, nothing was fucking open, right?
I mean, if you're talking timeline.
Yeah, that was close.
I mean, where did he think you were going to get sex toys from?
I mean, you're talking April of 2020.
Isn't that like right at the height of it?
Pretty much, yeah.
I mean, I don't know where you lived, but when I went out in my car during that time,
I was the only one on the road.
It was like the apocalypse, the zombie apocalypse.
Yeah.
It was great, though.
You could just, you didn't have the speed to get to where.
Oh, my God.
It was the best.
Yeah, because I live in.
Manhattan, so there was zero traffic.
Mm-hmm. Nice.
So you get there, that three, seven, was it totally hot with his girl?
Oh, man. It was, it was like a practice room, basically. He couldn't get hard, so I pretty much was just doing all the work.
I mean, I didn't, I didn't mind, you know what I'm saying?
Yeah, that's what you're there for. Maybe that's why he called you over.
Yeah, yeah. And it was, it was interesting because, so they just had a baby, too, on top of that, like a couple months before that.
So they had to keep leaving the room
Because we were in the liver room
They have to keep leaving their liver room
They're going to check up on the baby
We were still in the other room that kept waking up
Back and forth
So it was like we just sit there
We fucking and then got to pause
Okay let's go check on the kid real quick
I was like oh man
Wow that's a little weird
Yeah it was a little weird
Yeah and then at the end
Like we were all done they brought the kid out
I'm sure the kid was like
Oh shit this is the motherfucker that y'all been like
The banding me for
Yeah
Now was this a white couple
She was white, he was Hispanic
Okay
So now you knew after that you wanted to get into the lifestyle
That was like your gateway drug
That threason the first threesome
You're like I want to do this again
This is what I want to do
Yeah
Yeah because honestly I'm a neat nympho
I just love sex I gotta have it
Hypersexual maybe
Yeah pretty much
Yeah it started as a kid
You know saying
you sneak into your dad's porn collection and watch it back when everything was on VHS.
So you got to keep it at that one scene and then rewind it back.
Don't you think that was something better about that?
I think it was something what?
Hatter about that experience because it was like the anticipation and the only thing you had.
I feel like with so much more of it, it takes so much longer to find something that's really hot.
Whereas when you only had that one or two things, it was like immediate because you,
you knew there was nothing else. I don't know. I feel like there was something to that that made it
easier and hotter to get off. And now there's just so much shit. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I admit now I'm a little
numb and kind of desensitized to it because some people are like, oh, I just had a three show.
I was like, oh, okay, well, did that like twice last weekend. It's nothing. Yeah, it's what happens?
You scratch an it and you just need more and more to scratch it because you get used to it. So that's the same thing.
No different than with your experiences. And I hear that from a lot of people that are super.
super hardcore. It's kind of like, okay, been there, done that, even if it sounds very extreme to the
regular person, if that's something that you're doing on the regular, even if it's gangbangs,
you're like, okay, now what? You know what I mean? Because you're kind of like, oh, Ben, there,
done it. And to me, it's the same thing about porn, whereas when there was only that one thing,
it was a little hotter. So you were always high person. When, how old were you when you lost your
virginity? I was 15. It was actually my freshman year. I lost it with my girlfriend's.
Prior to that, I had, you know, saying just girls that I were playing with, and they were also virgins as well.
But I just couldn't get it in because I was too big.
Oh, okay.
Yeah, let's get to that.
Your BBC, is that what they call it?
Big Bucke.
Yeah.
I mean, did you realize, like, does a guy with a really huge cock know that he's really big?
I mean, maybe you did because you were, like, looking at your dad's porn early on.
Were you like, wow, like, I don't see anyone like me on there?
Or, like, how did you feel about your size?
So to be honest, I just assumed back.
and my dick was like average.
So that's what I would think, because you don't see anything else.
You're just like, okay, this is normal, right?
Yeah.
And like back then I was, I think when I first started measuring it, I was,
hopefully this doesn't seem weird.
But fourth grade, I was like five inches.
And then so I assumed, damn, like that's average water.
But now I'm at nine inches.
So grew pretty well.
But even that, I mean, isn't that, is that big for a fourth grade, I would think,
don't you think?
I think so.
I think that's pretty big.
There's some husbands that...
Five inches regularly now.
Yeah, and I'm just like, damn.
So do the math.
If they were half of that, probably, right?
Because it grows as you get older.
They were like two inches when they were, you know,
fourth grade now.
And then they grew to five.
You're four and just like,
what the fuck is that going to grow to?
Like a fucking baby on.
So when did you realize, though,
that you were way above average?
So, okay, this is always with one of my exes.
This one girl that I was dating,
I met her all from online.
like planet was like popping and um so she told me about another website and the thing was called
like root.com so like basically got on there it was kind of like my space but like porn so you can
have like your own profile and everything and she was like yeah you can post your uh your pictures on there
and see what people's reactions are and interact with people and all this stuff so i was already cool
so i did that and i just got a lot of attention for people and it just kind of like
built up my confidence and everything.
I was like, oh, shit, I guess I am pretty big.
Oh, because you were putting up dick pecks.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And then you found out.
Back on the razor phone.
I remember.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's so funny.
So that's when you realize you were, like, way above average.
Yes.
Did you have a lot of girls that, like, couldn't handle it?
Yeah.
Now, more kind of back then, like, I kind of get played a lot.
They just be like, I don't know.
And then, you know, I'm saying.
we just wouldn't do anything.
Yeah, they were intimidated.
This is after I lost my virginity.
Yeah.
Of course, yeah, yeah.
I don't think, listen, first of all, nine inches,
I don't think my cervix could take nine inches.
I mean, there's just a certain amount of inches in there.
Do you know what I mean?
And then the width is something that you have to really ease into.
But, you know, a woman could have a baby so she could stretch, right?
But, you know, you got to get her really looped up and horny.
And then probably she's good to go.
You also probably, on the other hand,
turned a lot of girls into being like a size queen.
Because sometimes a girl isn't a size queen, but she has that one boyfriend who's really fucking big.
And she gets used to that.
And then what the fuck do you do after Joey Panama's nine inch huge cock inside of it?
You can't go down after this.
Yeah.
Not if they like it.
They get used to it and they get into it and they like it.
And that's what they're used to pleasing them.
It's hard, right?
Mm-hmm.
So I totally understand it why most wives that I encounter have smaller husbands.
I mean, there's, it's, it's not that many guys like me walking around at there.
I got a couple homeboys, you know what I'm saying, that are relatively, like, in the same size
bracket.
But the majority of the husbands, they're all smaller.
So I get it because nobody wants to, like, marry.
Like, I'm surprised people want to date me.
Sometimes I'm a good person and everything, but it's, like, having a big gig, like, every day,
you know what I'm saying?
Like, getting fuck, like, every day.
And I'm not the type of person.
Even though I love sex, I don't, like, fuck every day.
or it's i take sexual sabbaticals as well and try to like minimize it to like one to three
times a week because i got other things going on you have life going on and work family friends
so it's like i can't just constantly be fucking all the time yeah but okay but we we're getting
a little ahead of ourselves because we're like out where you are now i mean you do fuck for
your business now i mean you did start a
only fans and you became this guy
Joey Panama. But before
that, we're just at the story where you fuck your friend
you go on to Reddit, you have that threesome.
Now you're looking for other couples.
Now, what were your experiences like
after that? Is that when you started
to realize that there's all these white couples
out there that want to find black eyes to bang
their wives? Yes.
You get objectified
a lot. And it took
a while for me to kind of like accept it
and then just kind of
get used to it. But then after a while, you have
don't have some self respect for yourself because like I get people that don't message me
and they're just like they kind of just they just basically address you by your genitals like
hey my wife's looking for a BBC yadiot oh we want a BBC yeah oh we're looking for a big dick guy
like just like that so like it I was just basically accepting it because hey you're it's it's
almost like you get a job and then you're like interning and then you're like okay man I can't
wait to get paid that's basically how it was I did a lot of freebies a lot of like
husbands basically like recording and everything and then they keep everything they don't see you
shit um so like it basically went from fucking for fun to fucking for funds and i like that saying that's
hilarious but but how quickly did it turn to that like very early on oh it took a while it took a while
like uh about a year and a half to two years right so let's talk about the fun part so you realize
there's all these couples out there, you realize that this is your kink, you dig it.
I'm assuming it starts to get fun once you get past the objectification of it all, right?
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Yes.
So what were the couples like and what kind of requests would you get?
And tell me some like scenarios.
I've gotten like racist ones where they want to do like race play.
That one's been pretty big.
They want to call you the N-word and everything.
You're kidding.
Yeah, straight up.
they, yeah, they're just straight up
just white people walking around,
just having a great old time,
but yeah, in the bedroom,
they're just a little bit racist,
you know what I'm saying?
Wow, that's kind of fucked up.
I'm sorry, that's fucked up.
Where does that come from?
Where does it come from?
Honestly, I think it came from like slave times
from when they used to breed like bandingo guys.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
For like fighting and all that stuff.
No, listen, I get that it comes from there,
but why haven't those people evolved out of that?
I mean, there's been a lot of generations since then.
But that couple that's there that has it, that still is inside of them.
That's not inside of a lot of people, right?
But it is inside that couple that for some reason they want to live out that fantasy.
I'm not entirely sure.
Yeah, because it's not every couple, thankfully.
Because there's no way I could just continue because, like, psychologically it fucked me up.
You know what I'm saying?
Yeah.
I mean, at this point, because you're Joey Panama, you have so many.
people, I would assume, could
I mean, couldn't you just
not do that at all? I mean, I have
a lot of people on my show that are
into this, and I'm typically not talking to the
Joey part of it. I'm talking to the guy and the
couple or the woman in the couple, you know, the
couple that goes out looking for the
bulls. And I haven't had
anyone on that was into
that, or at least no one ever copped
to that with me. I think
it's fucked up. So
I just wonder if
you said, oh, no to that totally.
couldn't you still exist and have as much content as you want and as many couples as you want
because there's so many couples that don't need that? I mean, is that the majority of people?
I would think it's the minority. It's a minority, yeah. It's definitely some, not all.
Here's the thing. So, like, when I was making my post on Reddit, it was like BBC this or,
you know what I'm saying? Your wife took this black cock, stuff like that. I was basically capitalizing
off of it and choosing it to my advantage.
Yeah, well, listen, the inter...
interracial thing is one thing.
I just think when you're getting into someone saying the N-word, that's like degrading.
And typically the bull isn't like the one being degraded.
It's typically, I would think, you know, the cuck on the side, the husband, right?
I don't know.
That's just like a weird kind of a thing.
I feel like that's a totally different dynamic, you know?
It is.
It's a weird, like, flip on, like, being degraded.
Because you're not exactly degraded.
You're, like, kind of like, you know what I'm saying?
Like this, this N-word that's fucking his white wife.
you know, saying in front of this white husband.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't know.
I don't like, I don't even want to talk about it anymore.
I think that's kind of fucked up.
You know, because listen, like I think with the interracial thing,
a lot of it is visual, right?
The really white with the really black.
I think some of it is that black guys,
I mean, I'm sorry, you have bigger dicks than white guys.
It doesn't mean that white guys don't have big dicks.
There's plenty of white guys with really big dicks,
but there's more black guys with bigger dicks, right?
I mean, I think that that's just a statistical fact.
So sometimes it's just about that,
huge cock because I think a lot of men who want their wives to be with someone else,
that's a part of it.
They want someone to be way bigger.
And if you're like nine inches and thick, you're like, that's the, that's the perfect guy
to do it.
You're fulfilling their fantasy to the 100th power.
Yeah, they like the contrasts as well of the, yeah, that's what I mean.
So a lot of times I feel like that's a big part of the interracial thing.
So I don't think it has to do with, I don't think it's racist in that sense.
But I think when someone's getting into using those words, then it is.
That's what I don't know where you find those fucking people.
But thank God they don't go on my show because I think that that's gross.
So let's though go back to some hot scenarios.
So I've had some other bulls on and they just tell me these fucking funny stories about certain guys, how they, you know, every guy wants something different.
Some guys just want to sit there and watch.
Some guys want to participate.
Some guys want to hide in the closet.
I mean, what kind of scenarios?
You know what I mean?
I don't know.
Tell me some good stories.
So I think I mentioned this one before, like where I basically went to this.
I got hit up by this couple and went to go see them.
It took about like 30 minutes to get there.
And when I pulled up, it's nighttime, of course.
And the guy told me that I would have to like sneak in the back window, go to the back yard, sneak in the back window.
Because his like family was in the house basically sleep.
And I'm sitting thinking, man, I don't know about this.
Probably just going to fucking go or something.
But I'm sitting thinking about it like, you drove all the way here.
Do you want to drive back?
Empty handed with nothing to show for it.
So he came out and basically walked me to the back.
And then we climbed through his fucking back window.
Oh, my goodness.
But he's helping you.
He's helping.
So if I'm the neighbor, I look out my window.
I see this guy helping a guy into his window.
it's his house. I would be very perplexed.
Like, how come he's not just letting him in the front room?
None of it makes sense.
No, it doesn't.
Yeah, I mean, straight up sneaky link.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's hilarious.
So you climb through the window and then does he meet you in the laundry room or some shit?
No, so the back window was their actual room and she was there.
And she was just basically there propped up, like, naked on a pillow.
Doggy style.
And just basically ready to take dick.
just like undressed, jucked off a little bit to get started, get in the mood, and then started
fucking in front of him.
And now, do you get off on that whole scene?
Is that a part now of like your kink taking a man's wife?
Not really.
I just like different pussy.
You like the variety and this is the way you get it, right?
That kind of makes sense.
Yes, yes.
Because it would be difficult trying to like date somebody and then convince them.
can I know like fuck other girls?
Are you okay with that?
But like with the dating and all that, you know what I'm saying?
It took a little bit like not necessarily convincing because I haven't dated for like years before this.
So once I started doing this again, well, not again.
But once I got into the lifestyle, met some girls.
They were okay in the beginning.
But that eventually kind of like changed.
Like jealousy kind of like set in.
And it was more like, well, I tried to stay transparent with them and basically let them know,
hey, I got a session going on or whenever I.
I'm, like, pissed off.
I'll, like, maybe, like, vent with them.
And I've had one where I'm, like, venting with her about some stuff.
And she's just kind of, like, in her feelings about it.
Like, oh, the more and more, like, we talk.
I'm, like, getting more feelings about you.
So this is kind of, like, uncomfortable conversation.
And I'm just, like, I thought I was, like, able to, like, confide in you.
And now, like, I have to walk on eggshells.
But this is what I did.
Yeah, but, you know, this is the problem.
They didn't know that they wouldn't be able to handle it.
And that's the sad thing.
And that's just what you have to wait for.
Just because a girl tells you straight up that she could handle it and she's down.
When she's telling you that, it's in the beginning because you're being straight up honest with her, right?
Which is totally cool.
So no one's really wrong in this situation.
But the girl thinks, okay, I really like this guy.
I'll be able to handle it because she wants to be able to handle it.
And she doesn't know, though.
But once she does start falling for you, all these other things come into play.
And then nine times out of 10, the girl's going to be like,
I can't fucking handle it.
And that's just reality.
But I don't think she's lying when she says that she can.
She wants to be able to handle it.
And then she just can't.
And I think it's cool that you're honest at front.
But listen, I think with the younger girls nowadays,
you're more likely to find someone who eventually is going to be able to handle it.
You know, maybe someone who's in the same business, who's doing the same thing as you.
There's a lot of...
And that's what my friends tell me.
Yes, there's a lot of hyper...
a girl that's doing the same shit.
There's a lot of hyper-sexual girl.
I had a friend named Dr. Guy.
He was a guy I dated, and I would just remember one time, like, fucking him and walking out
of his room and turning around and saying, I need, like, more women here to help out with
you because you just want to fuck too much.
I don't want to fuck you five times a day every time I see you.
Like, seriously, I'm not into that.
Like, I just don't roll that way.
I need help here.
We wound up not lasting.
He was a total player, cheater.
But eventually what happened to him, and he's because he remained.
a friend and he was like this doctor guy that lived a, you know, a fake life, his whole life,
became a doctor, got married, was always cheating.
But he was like you in real life, but he was hiding it.
He was hypersexual.
He wanted to fuck a million girls.
The last thing he wanted to be was married with kids and a white pick offense, but he did all
that shit because that's what you're supposed to do.
And then eventually he decided to just be his fucking self.
And some people would say, oh, he's having a midlife crisis, but I was like happy for him.
Eventually he, when he decided he's just going to be him.
and he's just going to put it out there
and he's never going to be monogamous
and that's not how he's going to roll.
He met a girl and they've been together for years
and they're going to get married
who is as fucking horny as he is
who needs as much variety
when it comes to fucking guys as he does
and she's super hot and he's hot too
and there are swingers and they fuck a million people
and she fucks guys in front of him
and he fucks girls in front of him
she likes girls and guys and they are two peas
in a pod okay so there is really
someone for every person.
but you need someone who roll you need someone hypersexual most girls are not wired to want variety
as much as men right yeah but his girl is she needs variety of men she needs a fucking different
guy every day she's just like him so trust me there's a there's a girl out there for you if you
ever want to settle down and i think it's smart that you go in being honest but i think you have to
be realistic that most girls are going to be like no but if you i think you have to fish in the pond
of where you're you're at the only fans girls the
people in the lifestyle girls that you meant i know that you said like you've done gangbangs and stuff
like that i mean do you go to all these kinds of events do you go to swingers clubs like how involved
in the lifestyle are you besides just doing the bull thing so to be honest i'm more like kind of like a
recluse in a sense like i just i'd rather be at home a majority of time i'll go out with friends
or whatnot but i don't make it like a big deal because like i used to party man like 15 years old like
basically going to Mexico with my brother and we would like go drinking and everything and fuck
girls and everything so like I've been partying way before I was even like illegal to drink alcohol.
Yeah, I got it. You've been there done that.
Yeah. So it just kind of like honestly just you I get bored quick. So that's the whole reason why I'm in
this is because like the whole variety aspect is it just kind of gets just tiring. Like you're with
the same person. And I hate to be like that.
I would love to get married and have the whole family and everything.
But I'm just,
I'm personally not programmed and wired like that to like enjoy that because I know I
would be miserable.
Well, you know, listen, I mean, people want marriage for different reasons, you know,
depending on what that would be for you,
it's not like you couldn't have it.
You could with the right person.
You know, it just would be someone that would be open.
You would have an open relationship.
But if you wanted, and if you wanted kids and you didn't.
want to be with one girl. You could have a kid alone. I mean, there's so many different ways
it could happen for you and you're only 35, so who knows what's going to happen. But now,
do you do bang, gang bangs and shit like that? Not on the regular. I really prefer MMFs.
You know what I'm saying? Just two guys, you know, saying? Just basically. That's your thing.
Taking on girl. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And now, do you have a lot of guys? Like, how do you roll?
Will you get involved in the guy? Will you let him blow you? Because I know a lot of cucks are into
that some aren't what's your deal i'm not really into it i'm not seeking it but i've had a couple
guys touch my dick and you know saying in the heat of the moment you just yeah fucking you just let it go
or they're fucking eating a girl's pussy and before i know i'm saying i'm fucking her they're like 69
in and all of a sudden i'm feeling my balls getting sucked on i'm like the fuck up whatever
just but yeah we just stop right there i've had advances from husbands
and I always decline them.
How is it the scenario set up with these couples?
Do you go over what you want, what you don't want?
Do they tell you what kind of situation you're getting into?
I mean, I have talked to other bulls who say they really like to talk to the husband
because they want to really know how the girl likes to roll or something.
Like how is it set up with you?
How does the process work?
I like to talk to both if I can.
I don't be honest, a lot of husbands are garbage when it comes to, like, communication.
Yeah.
I'm wondering like, how the hell did you even get home if you can't even talk to me?
Because they just, they're just terrible with communication.
Like, sometimes they just, they message.
Like, what I can't stand is like an empty message.
Like, you get a blank profile message in you and it's just a hi or hello or what's up or yo with seven different O's.
And it's just like, what do you want?
Can we get to the point?
Like, I'm not across the street.
I'm not across the room or something.
And don't just be like, hey, at me.
So that's where I have to verify people now.
If we want to move forward, there's things that are set in place that you need to do that I require.
Like, I need people to verify off top.
Take a picture with the current date on a piece of paper with your username or my username.
It doesn't matter.
And just hold it by your torso.
And that's it.
Just take a picture just like that.
So I know that, okay, I'm talking to a person.
Because, like, something after the pandemic, a lot of people gain weight.
So they don't send, like, older pictures.
and stuff and you're just like, oh, okay,
and then you go ship, you go link up with them,
and it's a totally different person,
you know what I'm saying?
They're like way overweight or they're way old or something.
You're just like, what the fuck?
Why would you send me like some high school pictures
and you're a grown-ass person?
This is the reason why I have to verify people prior
because I need to, like, this is all face value.
Like, we're all, like, going off of this or looks.
Once we, like, fuck each other brains out,
then we, like, step into personalities,
and actual exchanging maybe numbers or real names,
because I don't like giving up my number, to be honest,
because people will literally, like, find you on different apps,
and then they want to sit there and cyberstalk you.
So I'm really, like, as, as, it's odd because, like, my sexual experiences are public,
but yet my actual life is, like, private.
And that's, I like to do that to, like, keep my sanity.
So, I mean, it's nice that I'm doing this little interview and everything.
I don't know. I'm going to call it a little interview.
But it's just, I don't know.
It's just, I try to, like, not be so open because it just basically helps me maintain my piece of mind, basically.
Yeah, you got to keep something for yourself.
You're giving a lot out to a lot of different people.
If you don't, I feel like if you don't keep yourself to yourself, you could really lose yourself in that.
And I think that that's smart.
Exactly.
I think that that is smart.
I think it's smart that you learn from all these things.
I mean, that's what happens.
You couldn't have.
known that you needed all of those things in place going in, right? You learn it, though,
through the process, right? Because when you put yourself out there publicly, regardless,
whether it's what I do, you do, you start to, the more number of people you have in your life
and your surrounding, the more likely you're going to hit a fucking psycho. Yes. Oh, my God. It's very
true. Yeah, well, how out are you about what you do? I mean, you're Joey Panama. You have an
only fan's account. I mean, is this pretty much a secret life that you live?
It is a secret life.
Some select family members that I'm cool with that I know can handle this information.
I let them know, like my brother and sister know, a couple of my niece and nephews know.
Definitely didn't tell my mom because who wants to see their baby out here doing all this stuff.
Because of my cousins know.
So, yeah, I just kind of minimize it there.
Pretty much that is just kind of where I'm leaving it.
And that sounds very contradicting because, you know, saying, like, I'm doing this and I'm out here.
I have a pretty large present online, so it's almost inevitable that somebody that I know is going to find me.
And it actually happened before a high school friend actually contacted one of my family members, because they saw a picture of me that somebody else posted.
It was just basically like a shirtless pick with other individuals before.
It was like the picture before the Bukaki gang bank.
And there was really no hiding away from the family.
that that's what I was doing because you got girls in Monterey on the band as well
and other guys, you know what I got her shirts off and we're all taking a picture and
then there's like hashtag like Bukaki
hilarious and all this stuff is just so yeah that's a that's the giveaway that's the
fucking giveaway yeah exactly that was sloppy on whoever did that I mean if you that was on
your personal thing but I mean so what was that gang bang Bukaki was that something
that like you filmed is that was that was
that something for fun? Was that something for fun? How many guys were there?
Oh, they want to go to eight. And how many girls? Two. Two girls. And Bukaki is you're just all
coming all over them, right? That's what's going down. Yeah. Yeah. So you know,
the bling bang first, there's a blowbang and everything. They give a bug. And then at the end,
they basically, like, we all come in at places. Now, were the girls hot? Oh, yeah. They're
hire. Yeah. So yeah, pretty much you, you kind of fuck who, who presents themselves to you, and then
after a while, once you kind of, like, establish a status in the game, you can, like, fuck
who you want and be picky. Yeah. What do you want? What do you like? And what, what is your status now
that you, what's your bar? So race is an effector. I really don't care. I just like them to be,
like, fit and, like, basically take care of themselves. I'm saying, I work out and everything.
I've always been skinny my entire life.
So once I just started working out, I just got more tone and they just kind of started gaining
like more muscle.
So I just, I enjoy couples that just, you know what I say?
Basically take care of themselves.
I like, I like thick girls.
You don't have to have a gym membership.
But like in order to like, I know this sounds crazy, but in order to like date me, like,
my requirements are like, you got to have like college education and you're saying and be like
taking care of yourself and have goals and all that stuff.
But like as far as like me fucking you.
basically take care of yourself.
I just need somebody who looks like they're putting in effort.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And what about age?
And what about age?
Oh, I probably max out of 40, 50, not, excuse, 4550 is where I'm mixing out.
There's some fit women out there that maintain their bodies, you know what I'm saying,
into their older age.
And I'm willing to give them a chance.
Now, like, I told, I've stayed at my age online and whatnot, and then I'll be like,
surprised at myself a little bit because I mean I look pretty youthful so I'm still able to pull like that
young across I get like the the 20s 30s and 40s basically wow so there's a lot of 20s and 30s couples out
there that are looking to bring you in because typically you're doing that you're that's what you're
doing right yes do you care what the guys look like or when you're getting your when you're setting it up
and making sure these people pass your test I mean do you get the picture of the guy too so before I didn't
really care, but now you kind of do it, because
I don't want no gross looking
like slob, like, you know what I'm saying?
It's like, E-Bore, you know what I'm saying,
like type cat.
I appreciate your honor's?
Yeah, just like sweating or something.
Or, you know what I'm saying? Just in the corner, just like
staring at you, just, I mean, we all
like a little creepy, you know what I'm saying? A little
pervy to a certain extent, but no, like,
weird old looking guys, you know what I'm saying?
Because it's, it's kind of weird how some, like,
hot girls are, like, dating these, like,
weird-looking dudes and they're like married to these smaller guys and I'm just like fuck but I feel like
I'm basically like you're into a certain extent you know saying being objectified I'm kind of like
like a portable dick like they would normally have this giant dildo in their fucking drawer
or in their closet locked the way in the basement but yet like they don't have that and they rather
prefer something like real so I'm basically in use I've been
been used by like some rich couples and they've done like everything they go on all these
extravagant vacations but yet they want to see their wife get fucked by a big dick guy do you ever
get flown out places and shit like that yes i've been to kentucky twice the first couple times i
went to california was flown out there because of this being a lifestyle yeah fmos i call that fly me
fly me outs.
All right.
Get flued out.
Eventually, I was like, I got to fly me first class.
Do you get coach?
I don't mind.
Hey, as long as it's not spirit, I am totally cool.
Oh my God, that's hilarious.
Yeah, because you're young.
Once you get over 40, like, you're going to start to be like, now you're going to, that's
going to be added to your list.
You'll say, I would fly coach to hit my ad, booty call in San Francisco.
You always do fly me out.
And he called me like, in the morning.
Friday. You want to come for the weekend? Sure. On 35, 36, I get on the back of the coach plane,
fly out six hours in San Francisco, fuck them all weekend, come back on the red eye, go straight to work.
I would never do that now that I'm old. First class layback thing so I could sleep, but this is
different when you get older. But yeah, so let me ask you this. What was my question? Oh, but like you said,
oh, like these couples are using me, but like you're using them too, right? I mean, come on. You just,
literally you admitted that you don't even care about fucking the guy's wife you're just doing this because this is like your easy way to fuck a lot of girls
yeah yeah pretty much yeah i mean everyone's using everybody right
yeah everybody to a certain extent everybody's using everyone yeah you're using them you're using now
let's go out with this like how did you i mean you eventually you said you turned you went from
from being fun to funds you know i like that saying it's kind of cool it's a good saying thank you
you know when did you decide to do that and start was it when
Only fans came about that you're like, oh, wow, I can do this and put this here and make all this
money?
I'm going to be honest.
So it started from my brother.
I told him about it.
And his first question to me, after I told him, was just like, are they paying you?
I was like, nah, nah, nah.
He's been, fuck that.
You know what I'm saying?
I would be getting paid if I'm about there taking all my time and shit, driving to people
and wasting my gas just to fuck them.
Like, fuck that.
I just stay home and jerk off.
I was just like, you know what?
And then other people kept mentioning.
it too. And then people on top of that online, like when I was like posting videos because like
basically you fuck a couple and then the husband or whatever, they give you video of it. And then I would
post it online. And it's just basically like the cycle continues. Like the other couples see the videos
online and they're like, oh, I want my wife to get fucked like that. So then they, you know,
so you get introduced to them and then now you're fucking them. And it's just a cycle basically.
eventually people kept messaging me asking if I sold videos and all that and I was like oh yeah you're
I'm saying I do you could just like cash that me or Vimo or PayPal and a lot of people weren't
comfortable going that route there was like oh well when you get a only fans just let me know
I'll just subscribe instead because they I understand there's a lot of scammers out there so they
don't want to like give somebody their money and then they promise that they're going to give them a video
and then they don't so I get it I
totally get it. So I kind of like got forced into this. It's shit. It's it's it was almost inevitable that I was just going to end up like having a be on a payment platform. Yeah. And then what did you do? You went on to only fans straight up. That's the first that. That's the place that like it was around at that time. Right. Because this just started. Yeah. That was the first one. But actually before that I was like posting like dick pics and stuff online just random. And I ended up making like a connect pal. It was actually making money off of that. The most bank.
because I wasn't really like doing much like as far as like advertising.
I made like $400 within like three months, which is like nothing considered now.
But back then it's kind of like, wow, like I could do that from just putting up a dick pick.
I mean, it's kind of like, wow, I could, if I could do 400 on just this, imagine what you can make doing the real deal.
Exactly.
Once you like, you know, saying it's serious with it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And then how did you get such a.
big following. Do you have a big following? I mean, I know you have a big following on Twitter. Do you have a big
following and OnlyFans? I maintain like 100 to like maybe 150. The honest, it's really harder for
a straight male to like actually maintain followers and all this stuff because you got to show your
butt hole. You got to do like slightly gay stuff just to like kind of like like, like,
like, sell out. There's people that do like gay baiting and stuff like that. I have no problem
with me or saying with the gays and whatnot. I'm comfortable in my sexuality.
I'm totally fine being naked around another guy while I'm fucking a girl.
I'm not going to be like, oh, I'm fucking through the dick hole in my box and shorts.
I'm not that insecure anything.
So I'm cool with that.
Well, you're going to get a lot of people from my show because I have a huge audience.
I mean, listen, the thing with OnlyFans is that because, I mean, I guess you use Twitter to get people over there, right?
I mean, OnlyFans isn't like YouTube where they have this huge amount of people on there and then you post your stuff and people find you.
I mean, you have to send people there.
Why don't you get your shoutouts, Joey?
so people could find you on OnlyFans, and then you'll send me your link, and I could put you there.
And then tell people what they'll see if they sign up.
Okay.
Yeah, I'm also on Reddit as well.
I'm almost at 20K followers on Twitter, but I'm at 35,000 followers on Reddit.
My Reddit is Joey Panama.
You can literally just Google me at Joey Panama.
Joey Panama 1 is my Twitter.
You can find me there.
You'll see a lot of content creators that I play with in my area.
And those content creators are like girls or guys?
Mainly girls, yeah.
Mariah Moneybags.
Here's another one, Darien Blaze.
He's one of my good homeboys.
He's like, like, I got some best friends outside of the lifestyle.
I have three best friends outside of the lifestyle.
But like Darian Blaze is actually like my best friend, like considerably in the lifestyle.
I can go to him. I can talk to him about stuff. We talk about, like, other couples and stuff.
If he met a couple and they message me, I'll ask him about them. Oh, how is this couple and whatnot?
He's, like, a lot of times he'll message me. We talk, like, damn there every week, several times a week, and just be venting. It's very therapeutic, talking to him.
I have another guy that I talk to that I'm very comfortable with, who's also, like, my personal trainer.
And he's in the lifestyle as well. We vent a lot about stuff.
Because you get frustrated dealing with these, these, these personalities.
I call it like personality, like wrangling.
Because you're just, you have to like have all these people like within sync and be like cool with each other, basically.
You're managing them all, right?
You're pretty much, pretty much.
Yeah.
Yeah. It's, you know what I'm saying?
It's not easy.
It's not easy.
No, I know.
I think a lot of people always making fucking jokes.
And I think it's rude.
about anyone that's online posting pics and making money
anyone that's doing it and doing it well
and making good money and it's their full-time gig
and it's making enough money for them to survive
well then they're fucking working their ass off at it
because it's not easy to make money online
whether you have a YouTube channel or a podcast like I have
or OnlyFans like you do like all those things I have it too
it's constant tending every single fucking thing
like going to the gym if you stop going to the gym
you lose all your muscles.
It's not like you do something once and then it's done.
Nobody that built anything online does it just grow once you get to a certain point?
It grows and you have to keep at it every fucking day.
And that's what people don't get.
It's a full-time 24-7 job when it is work.
I mean, you're having fun.
You're fucking people and stuff, but you're still, this is a business and it's, you know,
you've turned it into that and it is not a joke.
I think people make a lot of jokes.
oh you make this money on an only fan what are you fucking doing like when only fans got
canceled everyone's like oh everyone's gonna go back to their jobs at McDonald's that's that's so
fucking rude most people that can't handle a real job couldn't become a successful online
person because it is hard work just like anything else it is you basically have to put your
all in everything that you do for sure get something out of it otherwise you just you just
hear fucking and then that's just it like yeah and that's fine
if that's it.
But if you decide,
like Joey Panama did,
to turn your fun into funds,
you did.
You got to take it seriously.
It's a whole different game.
And that's what's interesting.
Now you're doing it,
and it is your gig.
I know when we first started taping,
you're like,
had your computer in front of you.
You're like trying to type
while we're talking.
I'm like,
I'm working.
I'm working.
I know I'm constantly working.
I got like less than five hours
to sleep last night.
Yeah, I get it.
You got to tend to your fans
and your emails and your stuff.
Like I, you know,
and so it's,
It is a lot of work, and that's cool.
So you gave out all your information.
So what do they see if they go on your only family?
What are they getting get?
Okay.
You're going to get my full face.
I show it there.
I don't show it publicly.
You're going to get full-length videos.
I have 20, 30-minute videos.
You know what I'm saying?
Like, I actually put in effort and give you, like, cinema.
And so I've been messing with this couple for a good, solid two years now.
We're very comfortable with each other.
and we just, we fuck so damn much that we just, every time we shoot, we come up with, like,
different, like, themes and everything.
So, like, the most recent one that we came up with was astronauts and aliens.
It's pretty funny.
We had one couple weeks ago, a couple months ago, it was like Joey sells this couple of car,
basically, and it's like Mariah blows the car salesman Joey.
You're right.
So you create really hot scenarios.
Like, you get into it.
So it's not just the same thing.
It's not just like, oh, they're watching you fuck someone.
You create a story, a fantasy.
Yes, exactly.
Yeah, we had a chill session one where it's 30 minutes as well.
And basically, I actually went to their apartment and we just chilling at their place.
And we were literally like legitimately, I was just there just to edit some videos.
But like before that, we were just watching a movie or whatever.
And then I basically went to the bathroom and came back.
And she was just like jerking them all.
So I was just like, well, fuck it.
I put my dick out.
We're sitting just watching TV, you know what I'm saying?
Both getting jerked off by her in the middle of us.
And just chilling, just having a whole like conversation, not even about sex, you know what
saying, just watching the movie and fucking getting jerked off.
And then we eventually just started fucking afterwards.
Yeah, but that's like a hot scenario.
I think some people would like to do that because that's like real reality, right?
That's sometimes how it actually happens.
A lot of times porn is set up in such a ridiculous way that it's like, it's like fine.
And you could suspend your imagination and get into it.
But that's kind of like sometimes like how real life goes.
And that could be super hot because it's very realistic.
Right.
Like there you are just talking.
And then it just happens.
And now they get that fuck session.
So they can see all that kind of stuff.
You have really long videos there.
I will put links to all your stuff in the description on my podcast.
So send me those, Joey.
Send me some anonymous picks for my Patreon.
But I can't have your like your cock has to be covered.
Like you could send me a pick.
where they could see how big it is in boxers or something like that or briefs.
But I can't show anything X-rated.
But what I'll do when your episode airs is give you free access to my private Discord.
Everyone pays to get in there.
I have over 1,500 people on my Discord.
So you could go in there as well and promote.
And there is where you take all your X-rated stuff and show people and advertise your only fans and stuff.
I can't post any of that.
Everyone used to always send me all that shit and I tell them not to.
I can't do that.
And yet they send it to me.
I'm like, where can I put this shit?
Because they all want to put it up there.
So that's why I created this Discord.
And people are going on there like crazy.
And there's like I said,
1,200 people there.
It's a great community.
You could, I'll give you free access because you're on my show.
You could go there and say, hey, once your episode's up,
I'll send you a link.
Hey, I'm Joey Panama.
And then you can show.
So my Patreon members are going to see your dick.
Okay?
They're going to get to see it because you could show it there.
I can't, though, but send me from my Patreon,
for my Patreon, the R-rated pecks, right?
To promote it.
And I will let you know.
know when this airs. And you're going to get a lot of signups. I have a big audience. So
also you're only fans my Dabal. Hey. Awesome. All right. Thanks, Joey. Thanks so much for putting up
with my coughing through the whole thing. I'll edit it all out. Oh, it's all good. Thank you so much.
I really appreciate you for having me. Awesome. Thanks for calling in. Thanks, Joey. Bye.
Bye. Okay. I just want to tell you before you go that my book,
it's called Strictly Anonymous Confession, Secret Sex Lives of Total Strangers, is now
available not only in paperback and e-book, but you can pre-order the audiobook. It's still not going to be out
until August 25th, but you can pre-order it. The book is basically 17 different stories taken from my show.
I kind of picked one story from each category that I talk about on my show. Like there's a hot wife story.
There's a cuck queen story. There's a cuck story. There's a gangbang girl story. Like I said,
17 stories and they're all told in the third person and they're all true. I took the interview and
rewrote it in the third person and I wouldn't really call it like a total erotica book. Think like
Penthouse letters. It's more direct. It's not so over the top like erotica. I don't really like
that kind of vibe, right? But these are true stories. 17 of them. They're really short chapters,
easy read. You could read, you know, one or two and then skip around. You could
read the whole book. It's available in eback format, paperback format, and finally, the audio book
is available coming out August 25th, but you could pre-order it now. And if you buy my book in any
format or pre-order it, I will throw in a complimentary link to my Discord. My Discord does not
disappoint, okay? There's no way you get into my Discord any other way than getting the link from
me, okay? I give it to people who buy my book. There's tons of people in there. Everybody shares
content with each other, and that's what you get to do there. You could post your own pictures and
videos. There's tons of channels. We have lots of contests where you can win a lot of money. It's a
super fun place to be. It's a total strictly anonymous community, and you will love it. I will be
giving anyone who buys my book access to my Discord. It's private, like I said. All you got to do
is email me a screenshot of your purchase, whether you did the audiobook, the ebook or the paperback,
send it to me at Strictly Anonymous Podcast at gmail.com.
That's Strictly Anonymous Podcasts at Gmail.com.
And I will send you the link to Discord.
So anyway, thanks so much for tuning in.
This is the Strictly Anonymous podcast.
Hey, everyone.
Thanks so much for tuning in to this week's episode.
If you want to follow the show,
follow me at Strict Anonymous on Instagram or Twitter.
strict anonymous. If you are on YouTube, make sure to subscribe. I love YouTube as a platform for my show
because people comment there and I try to reply back to every single person who post a comment.
So even if you're not listening on YouTube and you want to talk about the show, go to my YouTube
channel, subscribe and share my videos. It's strictly anonymous podcast. If you want to sign up for my
Patreon on my Patreon, you are not only supporting my show, but you will get these episodes early,
ad free and you get to see anonymous picks of my guests. Most of the girls send in anonymous picks
and some of the guys send an anonymous picks. So if you want to see anonymous picks of my guests,
as well as support my show and get these episodes early and ad free, sign up for my Patreon.
Patreon.com slash strictly anonymous podcast. That's patreon.com slash strictly anonymous podcast.
The link is also in the description below. Thanks so much for listening.
