Strictly Anonymous Confessions - 710 - GIRL TALK: Annie Undone on Polyamory, Relationship Anarchy and More

Episode Date: October 27, 2023

Annie Undone calls in to talk all about polyamory and relationship anarchy and discusses why she no longer considers herself polyamorous and instead is a relationship anarchist, what a relationship anarchist is, how and why her and her husband divorced and how she still kept her other relationships going, how and why she eventually broke up with her girlfriend and decided to be “monogamous” with her boyfriend, their romantic and sexual exclusivity and what that entails, her queer platonic partnership she now has with her girlfriend and what that looks like, the boundaries she has with all her partners and how they all have reacted to them, their no abandonment rule and what that means, her jealousy, where an when its come up and how and why she accepts it, how and why she is in the process of de-escalating her owner/property relationship, what polyamory has brought up for her and what she’s learned from it, how she’s done every single type of relationship style and why she believes knowing that there are many options is super important plus a whole lot more. Stay tuned for short update on all her relationships at the end of the episode. You can find her Patreon and Instagram here: https://linktr.ee/AnnieUndone  **To see pics of ANNIE UNDONE plus see anonymous pics of my other female guests + hear anonymous confessions + get all the episodes early and AD FREE, join my Patreon! It's only $7 a month and you can cancel at any time. You can sign up here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.patreon.com/StrictlyAnonymousPodcast⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and when you join, I'll throw in a complimentary link to my private Discord! MY BOOK IS NOW OUT FOR PRE-ORDER!!!! Strictly Anonymous Confessions: Secret Sex Lives of Total Strangers. A bunch of short, super sexy, TRUE stories. GET YOUR COPY NOW: https://amzn.to/4i7hBCd To Join SDC and get a FREE Trial! click here: https://www.sdc.com/?ref=37712 or go to SDC.com and use my code 37712 Want to be on the show? Email me at [e-mail] or go to http://www.strictlyanonymouspodcast.com and click on "Be on the Show" Have something quick you want to confesss while remaining anonymous? Call the CONFESSIONS hotline at 347-420-3579. You can call 24/7. All voices are changed. Sponsors: https://bluechew.com Get your first month FREE! https://butterwellness.com/ Try the Butter Wellness perineum massager and use code STRICTLY for 20% off your entire order Follow me! Instagram https://www.instagram.com/strictanonymous/ Twitter https://twitter.com/strictanonymous?lang=en Website http://www.strictlyanonymouspodcast.com/ Everything else https://linktr.ee/Strictlyanonymouspodcast Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Now today I have back on Annie Undone. Annie Undone is a polyamorous kinkster. That was the title of her first episode when she came on. She's been on two times before. she's coming on to do an update show because when we last spoke, she was having foursums and five sums, and she had a lot of relationships. And her and her husband were hooking up with all these people. Her episodes was 449 and 499.

That's when she had a four-sum with her husband and her girlfriend and her boyfriend. But the husband is out of the picture. She ended that relationship. And where she wound up is super interesting. She had a husband as well as a girl she was like hooking up with another guy. The husband's not in the picture. but the guy and the girl are, and you'll be very interested to find out what her relationships are with them now. They're not what you think they would be.

She's changed things up a lot. She's still open-minded. She's still polyamorous, but she's having very different relationships. She explains it all on here. She's also, like, very into that world. She teaches people. She helps people. She does that kind of stuff.

She talks about that at the end and gives all of her shout-outs. you could find her on Instagram, Annie Undone. I will put links to all of her stuff in the description. But what you're going to hear on here now is how she's pivoted and how she's changed and what she's doing now. And she explains it all. It's super interesting. So listen, I just got to tell you that I taped this episode with Annie Undone a while ago. I lost the raw data on this episode.

So couldn't air it until now. I know Annie from Instagram. She's big on Instagram, by the way. And I asked her to give me an update because there's a lot of things she talks about that were happening like this summer. And there were some things that I was like, oh, I see a red flag here and some of her relationships. And I asked her to call in and leave a quick update. So you got some information on what has gone down since she called in. So make sure at the end of the episode, if you want to know what went down with all of her relationships.

She's got a lot of them going on. You're going to have to follow this episode. There's a lot of players in it. Wait until the end because she does give a quick update. But anyway, I'm going to be right back on with Annie Undone. Hi, Annie Undone. Do you always go by Annie Undone? I don't know why I have you in my mind as Annie Undone.

You've been on my show before you're a polyamory girl. Yeah, I mean, it's kind of like a thing you say all together. But, you know, I'm Annie Undone, but people call me Annie. But you are Annie Undone. I mean, how did you come up with that name? You've been on my show before. Let me just introduce you with that. But then I do want to know why.

Like, why Annie Undone? What the fuck does that mean? You're like a polyamorous kinkster. I don't even know if you use the word kinkster, but you are into a lot of kink. And you've been on a couple times before, right? Two times. Your episodes are 449, 499. One, it was like you're a polyamorous kinkster.

Oh, yeah, that was the title. And then the other one was like, Annie had a foursome with her husband and people. And you always have, you're very into polyamory. You speak a lot about it. On Instagram, you're kind of like very much in that. that world like a little bit of an influencer right you you don't just live it like you love it and you like to talk about it and you like to help others i do know and the reason why you're coming back on is you did end your relationship with your husband you like when i spoke with you before you were married

and had all these other relationships now you're not married anymore but you have a whole whole bunch of new relationships so let's start with you ended your marriage right and it didn't end because of polyamory correct like you had other issues correct right correct yeah and i i want to say because i always tell people this because a lot of primary, for lack of a better word, primary relationships that you open from monogamy into non-monogamy do have a tendency to end. And the people on the outside are very much, oh my God, it was a polyamory. They should have never opened. It would have been fine. No, polyamory is a catalyst. It is going to shed light in every single crack of your relationship. And it is going to catalyze all of those issues and bring them absolutely

right into your face. And I was no different. And while I was maybe a bit overconfident about being able to deal with those things and maybe I would have been capable of dealing with those things, it's only as good as the person on the other side of that. So the cracks showed up. The marriage dissolved. C.J. and I left last June. And so I was in a pre-established relationship with C.J. and a pre-established relationship with Heidi when the marriage ended. And those relationships have ended up in some really interesting places. So now, CJ wasn't your husband, correct? These are two other, right?

So your primary ended. It didn't end because of polyamory. And I bring that up because you're still polyamorous. You still consider yourself. It's not like that happened. And you're like, oh, fuck, polyamory. I mean, this is still your lifestyle. It's still what you want because it wasn't the reason for your divorce.

but CJ and Heidi were not your primary relationship. Those relationships survived the divorce, right? Because they weren't a part of the primary. They did, but interestingly, I would say that I've shifted from identifying as a polyamorous person to identifying I'm a relationship anarchist. I don't think, while I definitely have a polyamorous heart, and this is interesting because we'll get into the nuts and bolts of this. Yeah. But essentially, I identify, CJ identifies, and even Heidi is starting to identify as a relationship anarchist.

And what's interesting about that is that that is a foundational concept that can exist with either polyamory or monogamy. And so it's more of a philosophical underpinning. Okay, but explain what the fuck it is. What is it a random relationship? I might be one. I don't know. What is a relationship anarchist?

So basically, if people are very familiar with the term of anarchy, in terms of government, but it's largely misunderstood, right? A lot of people see it as complete chaos, but that's not true. The term means that the people inside of the relationships get to tailor-make those relationships to include or disclude anything they want it to be. So essentially, it's tailor-made relationships that don't follow any paradigm. Oh, okay. You don't fall into anything.

You don't want to be in any kind of relationship box. Correct. So where we landed on all of that, well, I guess I should say that at first we kind of loosely tried to all be in relationship together, me, CJ, and Heidi. Heidi and I ended our romantic relationship in August. It was actually a pretty painful breakup for both of us. And we took a couple of weeks not to talk to basically go no contact with one another. And then we kind of came back together and we were like what kind of relationship do we want to have and so since last august we have been de-escalating our relationship and figuring out where we wanted that to fall in the meantime while we were going through that de-escalation CJ and i started having a conversation of what did we want

our relationship to look like and we found ourselves in a very strange position right because we had been polyamorous we had been conducting other relationships having sex with us other people, having group sex, doing all these things together. And then we suddenly found ourselves in only a relationship to one another. And so we have the opportunity to look at the totality of the entire relationship spectrum and say, what do we want to choose for ourselves? Which is interesting because it's not a position I've ever been in. It's very backwards.

I mean, typically people wind up. They start out solo and then they open up and they see an explore. but you guys started out, oh, very open and with many other people. And then you guys decide to be monogamous? It's like kind of crazy. Yeah. So we decided that we wanted romantic and sexual exclusivity with each other. Do you not want to call that monogamy?

Come on. So here's, okay. So this is where it really starts to get interesting. Yeah. Because at first I really did. I wanted to call it monogamy. Yeah. That's what it sounds like.

But everyone around me started telling me. started telling me that I was not monogamous, which has been one of the strangest experiences of probably my adult life, right? And I will say, I want to, I do want to circle back to one thing about this is that I said to CJ at the start of this, I said, I would really like to give you this, but I do feel that at some point, my queerness is going to become an issue. And I don't know if that'll be a year or five years or 10 years from now, but how do we address? How do we address? the issue. Yes, that makes sense.

If I need to sleep with a woman. Yeah. What can we do there? And so he was like, I can offer, like, he was like, if you need that, like, I can offer that to you. And I was like, but what would you do? And he was like, well, I can be like monogamous. What if I want science to be my other relationship, right?

He's a very, he's pursuing a PhD in material science. So he's very into what he's into. And I was like, it immediately made me. be very uncomfortable. And I said, this is just not a deal I'm prepared to me right now. Because just something about, I don't know, the imbalance of me having other relationships and him not having other relationships initially struck me as incredibly odd. And I couldn't reconcile that for myself. Because you kind of like, listen, to me, if you're a realist, I'm a realist. Like I would think on some level, that's not going to last. He's going to want something more. And if he's not talking about

that, that's going to be an issue because then what's going to come up. up. That like kind of opens up a can of worms, maybe on his level, because is he really being honest that he then wouldn't want something else? Is that the thinking? I think for me, the thinking is that I was in a marriage and a relationship that had opened and this person told me, yes, I'm on board. Yes, I'm good with this. Yes, this is okay. And then in the end, it was very much not okay. Right. That's what I mean. Like you just start not buying that it would be okay five years from now, even though we see. saying, yeah. And I just think, you know what, I don't have the kind of trust that I need right now

to even explore that as an option. And it's not an option right now. So let's just sweep that to the side for a second, right? So that was kind of the place we started. And Heidi and I are kind of hashing out, what are we to each other? We're kind of getting really close to one another. Again. Again. Yeah. Yeah. Again. And so. we kind of noticed, right, that all things being equal, we have a very emotional relationship to one another. And CJ and I don't have emotional exclusivity, right? So what some people might call emotional infidelity, I guess, is not a thing for us, right? You can be close to other people without having to make it sexual or romantic, and that's okay. And that's the kind of relationship

that I have with Heidi. Now, I've had asexual relationships in the past. Yeah, I remember that. Yeah. Not foreign to me at all. Oh, I've got a good side note for you about that one, too. So Heidi and I kind of settle on the queer platonic partner label. And that is kind of where the relationship kind of stood, right? She's my queer platonic partner. He's my monogamish partner, right, with romantic and sexual exclusivity. And so that was kind of where it was sitting.

Now we get into this whole thing of grad school, right? Heidi's a PhD student. She's in biomechanical engineering. CJ gets into a program at the same college, and he's trying to decide where to live. And Heidi says, hey, why don't you live with me? And I'm like, he's never going to go for that. That's insane, right? And so then he's thinking about it.

And he's actually, I think I would like to live with Heidi. And I'm like, oh, my God, this is so convenient for me. And he's like, oh, is it convenient for me to move in with your wife? Yeah. I see red flags all over that. Your C, you see like, oh, this is perfect. I'm like, this is great. Yeah. So they're, so they are now, I mean, he's just moved his stuff in there and they're moving in together. What I didn't understand was just so naively, so me, was that when they made the decision to move in together, this kicked off an entire speculation that the three of us were in a triad. that we have not been able to talk people out of. And even some of my closest friends, my closest polyamorous friends, are like, are you out of your mind? You guys are absolutely functioning like a triad? And so there's all this, are they or aren't they some kind of weird emotional triad, which I guess it's up for debate, right?

Well, how does Heidi and CJ feel about each other? I mean, they're just friends, right? it's more of like a hinging situation where I have an emotional connection to Heidi and I have my relationship with CJ. It's kind of how I've been seeing it. But I had this really interesting epiphany because if you remember, I had the relationship with Sam, the asexual Belgian. We were in a deep tink relationship together for a couple of years and we broke up last year. Sam and Heidi, well, Heidi had asked a few times, like, hey, I think. think you should connect me with Sam. It seems like we would get along well. And I was really

gatekeeping that relationship pretty strongly. But decided this spring, you know what, you're right. I should connect the two of you. You guys should be friends. We should all be friends. Why shouldn't we be friends? Right. We're a relationship anarchist. Breakups are nothing. Let's all be a whatever. And you're asexual with Sam, correct? This guy doesn't bang anyone. Oh, no. We had a sexual relationship, but it was just not what you would perhaps characterize as like a traditional sexual relationship, right? Whereas for him, like all of his sexuality is very much tied in with kink

and we had a very strong. We had a 24-7 total power exchange owner property, Kink dynamic. Who was the owner? Who was the property? I was the owner. Oh, okay. You sound like the owner, just the way you said it. You're like, I was the fucking owner. I was the owner.

And that's why you kept your property to yourself. Owner doesn't give up his property. It's so out of character. You're blowing my mind. Yeah, I mean, come on. Yeah, so I introduced the two of them. Heidi's going to Paris this summer. And this one day, a few weeks ago, she says to me,

hey, I wanted to ask you about something. I'm like, yeah, shoot. And she's like, I'm thinking of meeting Sam when I'm in Paris in August. Yeah. Heidi just sounds like she's moving in on all your shit, okay? I don't know if you see what's happening here. I mean, come on. No, no.

That's just, I mean, there is nobody I trust more in the world. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Her intentions are 100% pure. Yeah. But I had an absolute meltdown, absolute meltdown. And I was like, to the point that I was like, this is why I wanted to be in this kind of setup because I don't want to do this polyamorous work.

This emotional work is so hard for me. Now I'm terrified you guys are going to be in a romantic relationship. Yeah. I'm like, I'm full, I am full meltdown mode. Yeah. all meltdown modes. I mean, that makes sense. Yeah.

That's what everybody said, but I totally felt like it made me an ungenerous, polyamorous person. No, it made you like a human being. I mean, this is why these kinds of things are hard for people. I mean, sometimes I think, and I get it because I could be a very spiritual person, but I'm also like a human being.

And sometimes I'm just so busy being, very spiritual and so evolved that I don't allow myself, like, to be a human being. When you have to allow for that, too, it's a heart balance. You know what I mean? And at the end of the day, as a kink and open and all those things that you could be in PhD and smart and brilliant and live in that world, you are a human being and you have to allow for that. And that's a hard thing because it's about letting yourself be vulnerable and have those feelings.

I mean, that's really what it's about allowing yourself. So this is the first time that Heidi and I had encountered something of this nature. And I gave it a think. and I was like, so here's my deal. I'm so happy for you guys to be connected and to be friendly with one another, but a boundary I have is that I absolutely do not want my partners

dating my other partners or former partners. This is a line in the sand I have to draw, right? So I tell Heidi this and she's, oh my God, thank you. This is so clear, it's easy to follow. I'm totally on board. I tell Sam this and you think you get control over who I date. Are you out of your mind?

And I'm like, no, it's a boundary, not a rule. You can literally date whoever you want, but it may affect my ability to interact with you. That's it. Yeah. Right. And so this is when it occurs to me. This is the split. And this is where it's interesting, right?

I am for all intents and purposes in a monogamous relationship with CJ, right? It's monogamy. That's what we're doing. But I am in a polyamorous relationship with how you. and that comes loaded with all of the same issues of polyamory whether or not there is a sexual relationship because sex does complicate it to a degree but so do your emotions of course emotions complicated more but what and what do you consider yourself in with sam considering you're creating boundaries with him or you must have some sort of relationship that you think

that exists because you're putting boundaries on something so there's something there too like what is your relationship yeah so So my relationship with Sam is in the middle of a de-escalation. So I think it's really hard to classify it with any certainty at this point other than we know that we would like to remain in each other's lives. I think it's really hard to explain to people who maybe are less kink familiar. But there's such a responsibility that comes with an owner property relationship. And when we negotiated that dynamic, there was a piece of that negotiation that included like a owner property relationship. And basic no abandonment clause. I wouldn't have. If only, if only, I'm sorry, but every human being wishes that there could be a no abandonment clause. But it really, I'm sorry to say, like at the end of the day, it's like fantasy limb, because

how can you know that somebody will never abandon you? I mean, another person. I mean, they just, it's, everyone has free will. You can't. It's a good faith agreement, right? Yes. I mean, come on. But at the same time, like,

as a dom in that sort of power exchange, I personally, I'm not an old school kink person, but there is this part of my dominant side that kicks it very old school with regard to responsibility, right? And so I just think that there's something about that that I just, it's hard to let go of. It doesn't mean that we're going to have to talk every day. Yeah, but that would might mean that you have deep down inside like a real fear of abandonment and that's why you would want that set up, right? That's why that rule would be hard and fast. Totally.

I mean, come on. That's the basis of it. Oh, yeah. Abandonment is my core wound. Of course. For sure, all day long, every day. Like, absolutely. But I think that this kind of transcends that a little bit in that.

It's just a kind of like a deeper feeling I can't quite, it's hard to put words to. But does Sam want to abide by it? Oh, yeah, absolutely. It's mutual. If it were not. So here's the caveat to that, right? As me as the Dom and him as the former submissive in this agreement, the second he says, let me go, I never want to speak to you again.

I would absolutely abide by that. It's not a, how do I explain this? It's not like a reciprocal agreement, right? I don't get to say to him, please don't abandon me, but he can say that to me. Does that make sense? Of course, but you also did say to him, you cannot fall for Heidi and I'm like not feeling a right about that. And he said like, you can't put that on me.

That's kind of like a breaking of that, that rule, don't you think? Well, he also said he would abide by it, but he doesn't want me dictating who he's dating. And I was like, totally cool. I'm not. And it's not to say I would completely cease to have a relationship with him. But I would probably pull back considerably on my relationship with both of them if they were dating, given my balance. Does that make sense?

Yeah, of course. I mean, you know, it's super controlling. Listen, I think that people in the regular world do shit like this all the time. See, I think this is a misconception because there's lots of polyamorous people who don't want their partners dating each other and they have boundaries around that. But I think that there is also like when you talk about that spiritual, more enlightened side, there's people who would say you should never control anything, you should never do But there has to be limits on the emotional work that we're willing to do even in polyamory, right?

Like, it's okay to know what your limit is. And if that's a limit for you, that's okay. And this is part of why I think I have started to identify outside of polyamory because any type of relationship set up can become compulsory with its own evangelization, right? And that's what I don't want to subscribe to. Right. But I think that you have to evolve into that, and it takes time, especially if you have abandonment issues. You have to allow for every part of you to be, right, and exist. You're somebody that

wants to live in that world and be a kingster and be polyamorous. But if you have abandonment issues that you haven't worked through, those are going to rear its ugly heads. Listen, I think that there's no better place to do the work than in that world where that kind of thing can exist. Ultimately, at the end of the day, right? So what a better place to put all of your fucking fears and stuff in the forefront, right? And face them head on. You're like a balzy, crazy bitch, if you think about it, right? Like why somebody with intense abandonment issues would live in that world?

I get it because you're like crazy. You're like, I'm going to fucking conquer it by doing the exact opposite, right? But that's the human being in you that's going to have those things come up. And of course, those things are just normal. I think I've talked to a lot of people in open relationships, all different types and labels. And you're just the way the wind blows one day. You might be jealous for no reason, just that day because of whatever.

And that's okay. Oh, yeah. You know what I mean? And I make no bones. I make no bones about my jealousy. I don't care. I don't think it's more, I don't think it's more enlightened to, like, not feel jealousy. No, but nobody does not feel jealous.

I've never, like, I, and even the most hardcore. whether it's swingers, open, polyamorous, whoever it is, anybody that's the real deal who's a real professional at it will tell you that that absolutely comes to play. I think it's the more unrealistic newbies who act like that's never going to happen. You know what I mean? And that's a recipe for disaster because you're like human. Like that shit's going to come up.

And what helps you through that is being open and being cool with each other and trusting that the other person's going to accept that and work through it with you when you're a fucking team and you're going to be gentle with that person when they're having that kind of a day. So I think what's most important is that you're with someone who you trust and that are cool with you and that work through that kind of stuff. Like you and CJ and Heidi, like you say, Heidi is going, I guess, to Paris, right, to see Sam in August. I don't know. I don't know that they will or won't see each other. It kind of dropped as a conversation because Heidi was like, I had no idea, which this leads into a whole other.

set, right? It's like, she's like, I had no idea you were feeling the way that you were feeling. I didn't know this was so raw. And I don't think that I have a good picture of how you're feeling about this, which incidentally, I really learned through this situation that I do hide a lot of my emotions, however inadvertently I was doing that. Yeah. It's a very real thing that I do. And so it was a great, it was a great learning. It was a great learning experience. And it came right on time because Heidi's dating life is really heating up right now. And so she's polyamorous and she's pursuing relationships. And I had this kind of, oh, shit moment because she was like, yeah, I'm going to be dating. And like, all joking aside, okay, sure. It's great for us to be this. faking presenting triad like how hilarious is this for us but in reality we're not and i'm going to get in other relationships and so while my commitments to you as my queer platonic partner are not going to change my time and emotional availability is going to change and i was like oh fuck yeah yeah of course

and of course i was just devastated by this and surprised by my emotions thinking to to myself. And so in some ways, Sam was a person I turned to in this. And I was like, sometimes I actually forget because of the nature of my relationship with Sam and how open I am to asexual relationships. And I said this to him. I was like, sometimes I think that people are more open to this than they really are. And I understand that she's not saying like, I don't have any more room for you. But at the same time, that should have. happen, right? Her time and her attention and her emotional availability is going to have to go into other relationships so she can flourish and have those sexual relationships that are important

to her. But she's, this relationship does not meet my sexual means and I can't be fully invested here. And I was like, damn, ouch. Yeah, but so interesting that, I mean, to me, because I'm talking to you, I think in what fantasy world do you live in that you think that these people could get like that little bit from you and just stay with you. Of course they're going to go. Oh, I don't. I don't think that. I don't think that.

But I love our relationship. Of course. And it's simultaneously true. And this is something that, and this is a huge reason why is CJ and I have the type of relationship set up that we have right now is that when you're polyamorous and a relationship gets added, it fundamentally changes the relationship. you're already in, right? So like when Heidi's in a new relationship, my relationship to her is going to fundamentally change. And that's okay. That's how it should be, right? It takes emotional

work and it takes a lot of wherewithal and navigation and communication and all of these things. And so with my relationship with CJ, I'm like, I don't want our relationship to fundamentally change. So I don't want to open it up to that, right? And I'm not in a place where I'm planning on adding any new partners, right? Like my queer platonic partnership to Heidi is what it is. And if it changes fundamentally, that doesn't mean I'll be seeking another partner. Right. So it's an interesting dynamic that's built only for the people in it. And that's what makes it relationship to anarchy. Right. I'm not saying that these are transferable. The values are transferable. The lessons are transferable. But I'm not advocating for what anyone else should do.

I think they should set up their relationships exactly how they work for them. And listen, I think a lot of people do live this way, but they just don't have the labels and the things to say it. But it sounds like you and CJ have your primary. And as long as you tend to that, I mean, listen, Heidi would be your primary if you were like banging her, but you're not. You have no sort of sex with her. You know, I feel like a lot of girlfriends live and have the kind of relationship you do. Think about when you're younger. I mean, I'm a lot older than you, but I think like when I was younger and I had girlfriends who's your best friend and you're hanging out with all the time and they meet a guy and you get so fucking jealous. I mean, and it's because you're afraid you're going to lose that person's

time. That's the person you go out with on Saturday nights and you haven't met somebody and your life hasn't changed but their life. Like that happens all the time to people and you do get jealous not because you're in love with that person but because now who are you going to go out with? Like we're all fucking selfish at the end of the day. That's what all that kind of stuff is about. If somebody has a primary and someone else doesn't, you're always, in fear that they're going to get a primary because you do then spend less time with them. And that's a normal thing to be like, fuck, that person has someone now. And I don't.

And what am I going to fucking do? All of that stuff goes away when you're old and married and have kids. A lot of that stuff goes away. But it doesn't when you're... I mean, I have to say, it didn't, it didn't for me. I think I was, I was in relationship for 19 years. Oh, yeah. You just always sound so young to me.

I know. 24 in my heart, the 30. in reality. Yeah, you sound 24. So, I mean, I think it's interesting because before, and this is the difference, right? It's like before when I was married and I had this group of friends and I was very clearly investing in it, I wouldn't say that my behavior was all that deviant from what I experienced with Heidi, what you just described with how friends function.

Yeah. But there was nothing explicit behind it. And I think I was seeking for this thing, right? At least I know at the end of the day that I have a very deep love with Heidi. We have something very special and we're explicit about it. We're explicit about what the commitments are. She's expressed to me, what if you and CJ wanted to move or something like that? Would I be considered?

I immediately went to him and I was like, she was upset about this. And I think she does get consideration in this if this were ever to happen. Right. So to me, there's a different functioning of it. And of course, CJ's response to that was like, so, how many houses would we need? Right, but Heidi, she's not in a primary relationship. That's why she's talking like that.

If she, though, met, I don't know whether she wants to, her primary be a man or a woman, but eventually if she winds up in a serious relationship, she might not most likely care about that because she has her primary needs being met. I pointed that out. And I think jury's still out on that because that's the difference between a very monogamous mindset or something a bit more polyamorous or relationship banners. But has she ever had a primary? Well, not outside of the people we've been with together, right?

That's what I mean. She might like not know. She might not know. Also, which is also, this is the funny and interesting part, right? Is there's this part of me that's like, shit, we've only dated the same people for two years, with the exception of one person. And I'm like, now she's going to be dating people. that I don't even know are they going to like me?

Are the, and then, you know, but of course, she's very good at like reassurance and things like that. And at the end of the day, we have the same fears, right? Like in the same way that she's afraid, would you and CJ just make a big life decision that didn't include me? I have those same fears. The beauty is that we do have commitments to each other and we get to decide. And even if she said, I'm going to, I'm not this, this chick and we're moving.

Wisconsin or something, right? There is nothing, like, I would support her. I would undoubtedly support her. Right. You're at the end of the day you love each other and your friends and that overrules everything so that you would just be happy for her. And, you know, that could actually happen. I feel like it sounds like she doesn't, it's never happened to her.

How old is Heidi? She's 31. Right. So she doesn't like, has she ever had a long-term primary relationship? Yeah. She's lived with gentlemen. A gentleman in the past. I mean, she's been polyamorous a while.

I think it'll be interesting to see where it all lands. It's interesting that I feel like I live in this very gray area of polyamory, right? Because also, CJ and I, our relationship is not traditional, right? Like, we don't live together. We have no plans to live together. Although people keep thinking I'm somehow covertly moving in with him and Heidi. wish I'm not. No, they're moving in together.

They're moving in together. I'm not living there at all. I live with my mom. And actually, we are, like, quite happy in our living arrangement, too. But let me ask you this, okay, because, like, you are dating CJ. Do you ever worry or think there is a possibility that somehow CJ and Heidi could cop feelings for each other? I trust them both pretty implicitly to tell me well before.

anything were to ever happen if that did happen. But you know, they've explored a relationship before and that was not, that did not work out. Did they ever have sex? Yeah. Oh yeah, they've had sex. Now can they have sex living together? I think that would be out of the bounds of the monogamous relationship that I have. Right, right. So you so not, you wouldn't want them to have sex, but have they ever in the past? Yeah, they've had sex in the past. We've all, we all had group sex last year. That for some episode, that was me, CJ Heidi, and my ex. Oh, okay. Mm-hmm. So, yeah, we've been down that road. Right. And I think that's what confuses people, right? It's like these people who all used to have sex and now some of them don't. Right. But are they

into each other or were they just into you? And where does Heidi get fucked? Like, where does Heidi get her sex? Elsewhere? She, well, so Heidi's very dummy. sexual and so she really needs an emotional connection in order to feel sexual feelings towards people so she's dating and she has she's I don't love telling everybody whatever sex life is doing or not doing but it's been a it's been a bit for her so she hasn't I mean because listen she's 31 years old even if you're not horny every day when you ovulate you're fucking horny okay you need to be like so she's horny like she's got to be getting it somewhere so she's not having sex with you but eventually she's going to want to have sex with somebody.

Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. But you don't think it'll be CJ when they live together? No, I wouldn't think so. Right. I mean, they're both very honest and I don't think that they would, I don't think they're interested in exploring one another.

Right. So that's cool. So they're going to, though, be living together because, like, why is it that Heidi decided to move in with him? Is it like financial? CJ needs a roommate? Yeah. Yeah.

Well, actually, he's moving in with her. owns a home close by to the university that they're both attending. And it made a lot of sense. It made a lot of financial sense for both of them. And I think it's actually really, it's hard to find roommates who are compatible. Totally. And that you know, yeah. Could, is there a world, though, that you would have a threesome with them? Like, why no fooling around with Heidi anymore? I guess that's a good question. I mean, I think, why not throw one? Like, why not go down? Poor Heidi. I mean, she's getting no action. That's like, why not? I think that it's just a boundary we hold because in the de-escalation that Heidi and I had,

she had a lot of feelings. And I think it was important to both of us to have pretty clear boundaries around what was included in our relationship and what was not. And I do have sexual exclusivity with CJ. And so that's the decision that we made is that we don't fuck other people. Right. So that's one of those tenets of monoculars. that we stick by.

Right. So right now, you and Heidi just, I mean, you and CJ just have sex with each other. He doesn't fool around with anyone else. You don't either. You love Heidi. You have that emotional connection, which you're allowed to have. She's going to have an emotional connection with him. She can, right?

They're friends. Absolutely. Yeah, yeah. I would absolutely encourage that. But you and CJ sound like you're more, or you really are sexually monogamous. Now, because of how you reacted with the whole Sam thing, is she not going to meet up with him now in Paris? I don't think they are, but I don't know for sure.

She just said, if your feelings change on this, let me know. And I think there's likely to be a feeling shift for me on this. I just really needed a little, like, space around it. Because really, Sam and I just started talking with some regularity again. And so there's a lot, there was a lot left on the floor between me and him. But I think, I think when I, when I, I'm, and I told Heidi this, whatever my initial emotional reaction is, is not generally an indicator of where I'm ultimately going to fall on an issue. But, you know, Sam and I were in

relationship for two years during the pandemic and he lived in Europe. So we never met in person. And so this was a very tender spot for me. Because you never met him. You didn't want her to meet him? What do you mean? I mean, because like people, some people were thinking like, essentially, essentially like, it brought up like a lot of feelings of grief for me where I was like wow like something I had hoped for for so long is like she's gonna she's gonna get right which I think is a completely legitimate feeling but I'm not sure that it's legitimate enough to ask her not to do it yeah maybe live maybe that's the best place to go live vicarious like let her go fuck him like you always wanted to and live vicariously through her I don't think that's I don't think that's remotely on the table but I think

that when there's time and occasion for Sam and I to meet. Yeah. I have faith that'll happen. But I still think, I think it's interesting for me as a human person because I just left a relationship of 19 years. And there's, there's obviously a lot of grief around that. But it's also been more than a year since my breakup with Sam. And I have to say, it is, it is the most tender part of my soul.

Someone could stick their finger in that and I will fall apart. your sexual relationship with him. It was just like an emotional connection kind of a thing. Yeah. Well, it was also a kink dynamic, a very, a very intense, kink dynamic. But the thought of like him having sex with somebody else is too painful for you? I mean, I don't, I think, I think the emotional process that one has to go through

of former partners dating each other. Yeah. Is for me a bit unreasonable. It's too much emotional work. And, I mean, just given how many people there are on earth, I think they can both find someone else, right? Certainly, Sam has other relationships, and that's okay. But I'm not really at a point where I want to be involved with anyone else he's having a relationship with yet. Like him and I so have a lot of processing to do.

Yeah. Yeah, obviously. A completely reasonable boundary. Yeah, I think it's hard because you never really went there. I always feel like it's really easy to like sort of like, if you've been there done that and get past. like really get past the emotional stuff with somebody and it's over. I don't know. I don't feel any.

I could care less who fucks who. But if you haven't, you never like, like you never consummated that relationship. I feel like because you say you stick a finger in it, you could still feel it. Like you're obviously not past it. That there's still something there with him or else you wouldn't care.

Which, and it makes sense, I feel like because you kind of never, if you've never been there done that, how do you get past it? You know what I mean? Yeah, and I think too, I think there's a lot around there's. So it's interesting to me, but I think without the relationship with Sam, I don't think that my relationship with CJ would have ever been possible because before I met Sam, I didn't know that somebody could appreciate me for something other than my sexuality.

Right. So I think this is part of this, like Sam was my first relationship in polyamory. Like I was kind of his two. We kind of came up in this together. It revealed a lot to me about my worth as a human being. And he was the first person who kind of said, who kind of like saw me for who I was outside of my sexuality just because of the nature of our relationship and loved me for who I am. And so when I saw this same quality in CJ, I recognized it, right?

I might not have ever recognized it if it hadn't been for that experience. So it just holds a very dear place in my heart. And I think that that's, I mean, that's part of the beauty, right, of polyamory, that it can reveal to you these places in yourself that you never knew existed. I mean, I don't think that I also wouldn't have known the nature of as sexuality and relationships that don't include sex, but include closeness and what those are, how to engage in an intimate relationship and friendship in that way. Like I also have an intimate friendship with Joe Daylover from Remodeled Love.

Who's that? What is that's a person? Yeah, that's a person. Well, Remodeled Love is like, Jeff Daylover is his wife and they have, Joe has a relationship with Ash and Jeff has a relationship with Dr. M. And they're all in this polycule. And Joe and I kind of became connected a while ago, a year and a half ago and some change. ultimately, romantically, things kind of fell apart for us, not in any dramatic way at all,

but we stayed connected and we call our specific relationship a channel where we just kind of like transmit to each other, basically like we bear our polyamorous souls to one another in a, in a format of voice memos, right? And we kind of support each other or ferry each other on our polyamorous journeys. And so I think that Sam kind of represents this archetype of the light there, the person who comes in and shows you all of these things that are possibilities that you've never even considered, right? I guess. I don't really understand that. So it's just voice messages and that's a channel and like you're just leaving voice messages for each other, like saying nice things to each other. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we don't just say nice things. We're like, hey, this shit's

really going wrong. This is going on. But it's not direct communication. No, I mean, every once in a while we talk on the phone or we video chat, but that's our primary mode of communication because it stands outside of everything else, right? And it's just like a cool way to engage in a relationship bicoastal, right? We're not in the same time zone. We're not, and we just open up a space. And that's the beauty, right, of having a very fluid idea of what relationship. are. Right. Or being open to naming things. Because I do believe that some people have these kinds of things, but they don't sort of define it. Because listen, there's not sex going on with anyone, right? Really. You're having, you're in a monogamous relationship with CJ.

Right. You have all these other things going on. I think a lot of people have these kind of other things going on, but they're not defined. I don't know. That's just what I think. And I think, too, that like people who define themselves as monogamous in some sort of strict way feel like they have to slink around their partners back to have emotionally close relationships because I see this stuff online all the time where people are like things that are cheating and then they'll name the things and I'm like well according to this I'm cheating on my partner this is the most ridiculous shit I've ever seen in my life you have to keep these places even the places inside of you so exclusive that you're basically over investing in relationships, which, let's be honest, like,

relationships can be extremely fleeting and temporary. Even when I look back, like, even my 19-year relationship was always bound to dissolve, right? How would I have set up things differently if I just embraced impermanence and said, these are the parts I'm willing to give and these are the parts I'm not? Right. Mm-hmm. but do you embrace that in this relationship or do you want to embrace permanence in this relationship that you're in with CJ?

I think I know too much. Right. To be able to embrace permanency means. To say with any certainty, right? So like the Buddhist saying that I think it's Buddhist that I love the most is the cup is already broken, right? You enjoy the cup, you drink out of the cup, but you know inevitably the cup is going to break. So it doesn't matter if my relationship.

relationship with CJ ends in a year or five years or when I die. At some point in the future, it is absolutely sure to end. Yeah, exactly. But you'll be able to deal. And so, I mean, yeah, I think that this has taken me a lot of time because, and this is part of why I think fostering relationships with people like Heidi or Joe or Sam are important, right? Because, or for example, going back to school, gaining my financial independence,

making sure that I'm always on my own two feet. Because any relationship I'm going to engage in is because I want to be there, not because I have to be there. Yeah, I mean, I used to be very commitment phobic. And I had a situation where the rug was pulled from underneath me and one of the most horrific things that I had ever experienced. And I was like, I worked through it and I was like, fine. And then I was like, wow, I think what other people that don't have commitment

phobia have is this knowing that no matter what happens, you'll be okay. Like you'll work through it. You won't fucking die. It is okay. Yeah, it'll be terrible. You'll be depressed. You might not be able to talk about it without crying.

But, you know, a couple months later, like your life will go on and you'll be okay. And if you could know that, then you could just be happy with what you have now. You know what I mean? And so I think what I was always doing was projecting and knowing because I'm a smart person. Like, this is not going to last. So, but that's fine because you'll be okay. And you'll be able to. So enjoy it now, though.

But don't dismiss it just because you're, the fear. is that one day it won't last. If you have five years, two months, three years, 20 years, like you said, no matter what, like you'll, that's still valid and worthy and, and, and worth it and know that no matter what, it will, you'll be okay. And that's like what you say, you're only going to be there because you want to. And whatever happens, you'll be fine. Yeah. And I think that that's, I'm not commitment phobic, right? Like, I'm the opposite. like I will over commit to literally everyone in my life. My problem is the opposite.

Like I, what I've been working on this year is a commitment to myself. I'm remembering too that. But that is commitment, but that is a commitment issue. It's a commitment issue. I think if you have an abandonment issue, you have a commitment issue.

And it might not be to all this other stuff, but maybe it was for yourself. And that's important. And that is a commitment issue. And it's the most important commitment. And it's so tough. I've been like I'm reading this book by bell hooks all about love the fourth chapter's on commitment and I'm like all right this is the one I want to read on commitment it's going to be great

and I'm reading the chapter and I'm like okay the part on commitment is coming up the part on commitment is coming up and then the chapter ends the whole fucking chapter was about self-love right right I really miss the boat had I go back and reread the whole chapter and so I think it's like interesting And this is one of the things that, like, for me, I really think that the lesson is I believe in polyamory. I believe in relationship anarchy. I believe in doing whatever the fuck you want to do, right, with relationships. But I think we do have to commit to ourselves. And also, we need to commit to not living in chaos, right?

Like one of the markers that a lot of polyamorous relationships seem to have is that the people inside of them feel like the pacing is so accelerated that their nervous systems can never relax. And part of what I feel like I've done over the last year, however unconventional it looks, or however conventional it may look to a different set of people, is I found the pace in polyamory that actually works for me and the commitments that I could actually make. And so it turned out a lot different. And Heidi reminds me of this. She actually reminded me of this last week.

And she said, sometimes you feel like a polyamorous failure, but you're not. You're a polyamorous success story. We built this in exactly the way we wanted to build it, like collectively and like with a lot of intention. And there's something really special about that. The definition of polyamory is multiple loving relationships. And I definitely have that in my life. Yeah, I can't wait.

I don't know when I'm going to air. I have already talking to you about this and I talk to a woman named Ken, Yeah, she's the Progressive Love Academy Lady. You need to listen to her fucking episode. I think you're going to love her. I forget everything that she said, but she's way further down the line than you. And you're going to love, I think you're really going to, like all these books that you're reading. And she wrote a lot of books and she's got a lot of theories.

And she's very clear in where she's at. And I think you're going to love her fucking episode. And like I said, I don't know if her episode has already aired when I'm airing this now or how it is. but you need to listen to her. I think you're going to really like her. But I think everyone's at different points of the journey. When I just think that she is further down the line and, like I said, very clear where you're still figuring things out. But like you can't get clear without figuring things out.

I mean, no one just like wakes up and has clarity in anything. It's a process. When she talks about that and I think that that's like super interesting. I also think too that whether you, whatever you choose as your relationship style and how, because I've literally, I've been in every relationship. relationship style now, right? I've done monogamy. I've done swinging, group sex, polyamory, relationship anarchy, you name it. I've fucking done. I've done. I've done quad. I've done triads. I've done it all. I think that what you choose, no matter what you choose,

the important piece in all of this is that you know what the options are, right? Because if you know what the options are from monogamy to polyamory and everything in between, whatever choice you make is so fucking radical because you know that it's all on the table. And that's what makes the relationship you're in the special place you need to be. Yeah. But make sure you're with someone like minded too. And I just think it's all a journey. I like personally all the labels and the figuring out because I do think that it really does

help when you are trying to figure yourself out and get to that place of self-love and know exactly what you want and what works for you. And maybe that could fucking change three years from now. You don't know. Yes. It should. Exactly. I mean, if you're just, if you're just staying stuck in a relationship style because it's compulsory,

then it doesn't matter what that relationship style is, right? If you're like, well, I'm polyamorous, so I have to be in multiple relationships, but that's not what's in your heart. You're just fucking lying yourself. So I think that being able to change course, even just for a specific relationship, because I'll be honest, if CJ said to me tomorrow, I don't want to do this with you anymore. I wouldn't go in search of another monogamous relationship, right? This is just the relationship that I've worked out with him, what feels best for the two of us.

I have no fucking idea what would feel best in my next relationship. Right, exactly, exactly. Yeah, it's super interesting. So listen, it's a very interesting, listen, when I talked to you years ago, you would have never known you'd be here now. So you have painted and changed. Right? I mean, it's a total different story.

people want to hear your first episodes and hear about all your forsooms and all the crazy shit that you did in the past give your shoutouts while i'm getting your episodes up your shoutouts for all of your stuff you can find me on instagram underscore undone that's where i put out the bulk of myself but you can also visit annie undone.com where i have my jeans for sale i have artwork for sale and i also do peer-to-peer support sessions and i have a patreon which is patreon.com slash annie on done starts at $5 a month. And if you sign up for the Patreon, you get 20% off all peer support sessions. The bulk of my support sessions are focused around polyamory and non-monogamy, but I also do them on sex positivity, kink, and other sexual issues, homosexual issues, like people grappling with their sexuality, all kinds of stuff. So if that interests you, that's available too. And I put out free content every single day on Instagram. the link that has everything or what do you want me to put up there like your Instagram and your website? Yeah. I'm a Patreon. I think a lot there's additional long form writing and videos. Heidi and I

do a series called Pillow Top. That's only available to the Patreon. So we've got some goodies in there. Okay, cool. I'll put all your links in the episode notes and then your other episodes that you called up. They want to hear all the dirty stuff you've done in the past. They want to hear some stories to know that you like have been there done that lived it you could talk on it it's uh episode yeah 499 and 449 but annie i will put all your links in the description thanks so much for calling in and giving the update thank you for having me it's always a pleasure yeah good luck with everything thanks so much kathy thanks annie bye bye okay and now here's annie undone's update it's only a couple minutes long so stay tuned and check it out hey this is annie undone

I would call him to give a bit of an update since we spoke on June 1st and things have shifted. First of all, CJ and I got a lot of really good quality time together over the summer and were able to sort of deepen our relationship before he started grad school and moved in with Heidi. So Heidi and CJ now live together and the three of us are kind of adjusting to the new living situation. It's been a little bit different than I thought it would be. I would say sometimes I experience some envy because they're getting time and access to each other that I think is a little bit hard for me. But I also keep in mind that we all kind of have unique relationships. There's this sort of a roommate relationship.

I have my queer platonic partnership with Heidi and then I've got my romantic and sexual love relationship with CJ. And so we're kind of deepening that commitment to one another. And Heidi and I are kind of settling on what does our relationship look like in the long term. I remember talking a lot about the relationships I had with Sam and how I had introduced Sam and Heidi when I was on the episode. And, you know, really feeling like at the time, like I couldn't let go of that relationship with Sam. What was interesting is, is that Sam and Heidi having a bit more of a friendship showed me that not every relationship can be de-escalated. And I kind of settled on the fact that Sam and I were going nowhere fast in our de-escalation

for whatever reason, right? It's not always clear. And I think that I had been sort of holding on to that in a way that maybe wasn't even healthy for me or him. So I did kind of do a slow back away with Sam and eventually we've gotten to the point where we're at now, which is that we don't really talk at all aside from in our server a little bit. And I think for me it feels better. It's a better boundary for where I'm not. And I would say now in the current like setup that I'm in, I am very much a relationship anarchist, which is I'm trying to basically break down this non-normative and heteronormative ways that we have in.

grained in doing things in relationships, but also in life, coming more into my identity as a non-binary person, as a queer person, and as a multi-faceted human who doesn't really want to be put in any one box. The relationships that I have makes sense to me and the people in it. And yeah, so I'm got to focus on going to school, having great sex, enjoying my relationship, being a parents, which is definitely a part of my life. And yeah, just enjoying the people I'm doing that with in whatever way so good and free for me. Thanks for listening. And it's always a pleasure to be a part of your podcast. Okay. I just want to tell you before you go that my book, it's called Strictly Anonymous Confession, Secret Sex Lives of Total Strangers, is now available not only in paperback

an e-book, but you can pre-order the audiobook. It's still not going to be out until August 25th, but you can pre-order it. The book is basically 17 different stories taken from my show. I kind of picked one story from each category that I talk about on my show. Like there's a hot wife story. There's a cuck queen story. There's a cuck story. There's a gangbbing girl story. Like I said, 17 stories. And they're all told in the third person. And there are all true. I took the interview and rewrote it in the third person and I wouldn't really call it like a total erotica book. Think like penthouse letters. It's more direct. It's not so over the top like erotica. I don't really like that kind of vibe, right? But these are true stories. 17 of them. They're really short chapters, easy read. You could read,

you know, one or two and then skip around. You could read the whole book. It's available in eback format, paperback format and finally the audio book is available coming out August 25th but you could pre-order it now and if you buy my book in any format or pre-order it I will throw in a complimentary link to my discord my discord does not disappoint okay there's no way you get into my discord any other way than getting the link from me okay I give it to people who buy my book there's tons of people in there everybody shares content with each other and that's what you get to do there You could post your own pictures and videos. There's tons of channels.

We have lots of contests where you can win a lot of money. It's a super fun place to be. It's a total strictly anonymous community and you will love it. I will be giving anyone who buys my book access to my Discord. It's private, like I said. All you got to do is email me a screenshot of your purchase, whether you did the audiobook, the ebook or the paperback. Send it to me at strictly anonymous podcast at gmail.com.

that's Strictly Anonymous Podcasts at gmail.com and I will send you the link to Discord. So anyway, thanks so much for tuning in. This is the Strictly Anonymous podcast. Hey, everyone. Thanks so much for tuning in to this week's episode. If you want to follow the show, follow me at Strict Anonymous on Instagram or Twitter. That's at Strict Anonymous. If you are on YouTube, make sure to subscribe.

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