Stuff You Should Know - A Rigid, Sterile Look at Kissing

Episode Date: November 23, 2010

A majority of human cultures practice kissing in one form or another. But why do we kiss? Is the behavior instinctive or learned? In this episode, amateur philematologists Josh and Chuck take a look at the biology, sociology and pyschology of kissing. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Flooring contractors agree. When looking for the best to care for hardwood floors, use Bona Hardwood Floor Cleaner, the residue-free, fast drying solution, especially designed for hardwood floors, delivering the safe and effective clean you trust. Bona Hardwood Floor Cleaner is available at most retailers where floor cleaning products are sold and on Amazon. Also available for your other hard surface floors like stone, tile, laminate, vinyl, and LVT. For cleaning tips and exclusive offers, visit Bona.com slash Bona Clean. The war on drugs is the excuse our government uses to get away with absolutely insane stuff, stuff that'll piss you off. The cops, are they just like looting? Are they just like pillaging?

They just have way better names for what they call, like what we would call a jackmove or being robbed. They call civil acid. Be sure to listen to the war on drugs on the iHeart Radio App, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Brought to you by the reinvented 2012 Camry. It's ready, are you? Welcome to Stuff You Should Know from HowStuffWorks.com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. Charles W. Chuck Bryant is across from me out of Kissing Distance. And I guess that makes this Stuff You Should Know, the non-Kissing

edition about kissing, which is every single one of our shows thus far. The Body Farms came close. Yeah, you're right. I had the urge to make out. Remember I took my shirt off? Oh, that's right. Yeah, and you're like, I'm not doing this. Well, that quelled my urge to make out, though. I'm like, oh, really? Yes. This is what you want? And you're like, no, put it away. Hey. Hey, man. It's been a big month and we're at the end of it, aren't we? Yes, October. October has been nutty. I know. We've been on the TV twice. Twice? Yeah. Remember? Good day at life. Yeah, actually, I already forgot about that. Yes, we were on TV twice. Yes, we were. Went to New York, to D.C., to D.C., to South Carolina. Well, one of us went to South Carolina. Yeah,

more on that later. And this is the end, Chuck. This is the last work-related thing we have to do this month. Do you know what stinks is October is my favorite month and always has been. And I don't feel like I really got to enjoy October this year that much. Yeah, I've had a December is like that for me. I love Christmas time, the holiday season. And I've had a December like that. And I was like, someone owes you. Yeah, that's how I feel. The universe does. The universe owes me in October. Although it's not like we were, I mean, we had a lot of great times in New York and stuff. It's not like it was sure an awful experience. No, but I know what you mean. Like you have a certain month out of the year that's dedicated to certain things. And if you don't pursue those certain

things, then you, what's life worth? Exactly. But here we are in November almost. And we're getting back to normal or at least whatever the new normal is. Yeah. So I'm excited. Yeah, me too. You're excited. And we're talking about kissing today, right? This is a very hard clinical look at the science of kissing. Yes. Which by the way, we should say the science, scientific study of kissing is called philimatology. P-H-I-L-E-M-A-tology. So we're philimatologists for the day. Yes. So let me go ahead, Josh, and then just start out clinically saying that anthropologists, no one knows for sure why we kiss to begin with. There's some theories though. And one of them, anthropologists came up with was that back when we were evolving humans that mothers would regurgitate

or not regurgitate, but they would chew up their food. That's regurgitating. I thought regurgitating was when you literally like threw it up. Okay. You're right. Yes. Okay. But the mothers would take their newborns and they would chew up their food to then place like a birdwood into the baby's mouth. And that evolved even once the kid learned how to eat and to just affectionate caretaking. Right. And it was a way to reassure the kid. It was something that the kid, I imagine, would had come to associate with pleasurable, close feelings. Yeah. Right? That mom spitting food into your mouth. Well, exactly. But that's the learned behavior idea, right? And there's one big flaw with it. There is. And it is. Are you setting me up? I'm like, you're pointing at me.

It's a layup dude. Yeah. The problem with that is there are some cultures, indigenous cultures today that still do that with their food. And some of them do not kiss until Westerners came along and they're like, Hey, you should try kissing. It's rad. Right. And the people kissed and they went, this is rad. Right. And that was that. But since not all of them do that, then that's not proof, but it kind of lends itself to saying maybe it's not a learned behavior. I had a, like this makes sense to me, but I also, it makes me wonder if behavior evolves, right? Isn't it possible that it doesn't always evolve over the same timeline in all cultures and all locations? Well, that's what I thought. It didn't necessarily prove something, but it is a big, it's a big flaw that

people can just like pick apart like so many scabs. Right. What about the other side of the coin? The other side of the coin is that it's instinctive and there's a lot of evidence that kissing is instinctive elsewhere in the animal kingdom. You see like tigers nuzzling. That's so sweet. It is. Apparently snails rub antennae, which is super cute. Have you ever seen it? Yes, I have. Like the slow motion, I think discovery actually had some of that. It's actually rather, or maybe it was that movie microcosm, but it looks really lurid when you see two snails combining themselves. Yeah. Wow. When you see it up close, it's like, oh my God, this is a clinical and sterile look at things. I think birds touch beaks. Yeah. And it's all over the animal kingdom.

In a lot of cases, what you're seeing is a like smell. There's scent glands located in the face of some animals in that area. I think cats like that. Yeah. So when you see two tigers nuzzling, they're like smelling one another's pheromones or some scent that's pleasurable. But the point is, is while they may not be kissing as we know it, they're still engaged in pretty much the same behavior that establishes bonds that reinforces trust. Sure. And that shows that you are close to that, that other animal that mate or that kinfolk. Yeah. Didn't you have something on the Bonobo apes? Yes. I thought you were telling me something about that earlier. I wasn't. You weren't? No, you had me confused with someone else. Well, these things kiss like crazy. They do. And they kiss

regardless of sex, regardless of status in the pack. Is it a pack of apes? The family? The tribe? I think it's a family. Well, it's cool. I mean, trust me, we're going to get email on this one. They kiss all the time, though. They do it to reduce tension after a fight, to reassure each other, the social bonds, and for no reason at all. You know the reduced tension after a fight. Do you know who that reminded me of? Who? Ronnie and Donnie Galleon. Oh, yeah. Remember, they kiss and make up after a fight. The world's oldest can join twins. Uh-huh. Yeah. Yeah. Very sweet story. They're still with us, aren't they? Far as I know. Oh, goodness. Chuck, their birthday just happened. They'd be 58 now. That's right. Yeah. We need to check in on them,

not that they know who we are. We're just the creepy guy who followed them home from school. All right. So there's arguments for and against. We should say part of the problem with saying that kissing is instinctive. It's very difficult to prove. And the fact that about 90% of all cultures across the world kiss. Yeah. So if it's instinctive, what's up with the other 10% percent? Well, they, I think they found some cultures in Asia and where else? South America. South America, but I think Africa. Right. And they said that it, while it's, it's not completely conclusive that they do not kiss, some of them may not think it's appropriate to like share that with the white dude that cut off the plane that's asking them about it. Right. You know,

so maybe they don't kiss and tell, but generally, I mean, everywhere I look said 90% of all cultures kiss. So that's what we're going to go with. Yeah. And in a kissy face culture, which is most of them, as we've seen, I found Chuck that people spend as much as two weeks out of their lives kissing. Really? Which you want to hear something depressing. That's about as much time as we spend waiting for red lights in our lifetime. I wonder how much time has been kissing at red lights. I don't know. That's a great question. I was wondering how much more we would kiss if we spent less time at red lights. Yeah. Like if maybe it'd be like three weeks in one week or something like that. That's a good point. So there are people, as we said, philimatologists who

study the science of kissing, of kissy facesness. And one of those groups is the Kinsey Institute named after the famous sex researcher, Alfred Kinsey. Yes. And they've basically found that there are three factors that contribute to the experience of a kiss. Right? Yes. And they are biological, psychological, and social. Yes. Psychological. There's a couple of factors within that sub factors. It depends on how you're feeling at the time and how you feel about the person of how it's going to affect you. Obviously, you've heard the expression like kissing your sister. That's if you're being kissed by someone you don't want to be kissed by. You're going to have a completely different reaction, obviously, than when you're being kissed by someone you

really want to kiss. Sure. And your emotional state at the time you're being kissed has a lot to do with it as well. Right. There's a lot of physiological processes that your body undergoes when you're kissing or being kissed. We'll talk about those in a little greater detail in a second. Yeah. And then there's social factors, like how your society views kissing, like is your first kiss going to be this magical experience in your society? Sure. You're probably going to be looking forward to it. So much pressure. Right. Is kissing extremely romantic or is it kind of middle of the road? Right. Is it taboo? All of these things are going to have an effect on the psychological impact as well. So there's sociology, biology, and psychology living in harmony on the lips of

all humans. Yes. And we should point out... We should point out that that's not just for lovey-dovey kissing. That's actually for all kinds of kissing. So like when a mommy kisses your boo-boo, those three factors are still taking place, obviously just in a non-romantic nature. Right. Different contexts, different sensations, but still there's three different aspects to all kisses of what you're saying, no matter what kind of kiss. And they all all kisses amount to something positive. They're all meant to reinforce some sort of positive feeling. Right. Like love. Reassurance. Right. Or reassurement. Reassurement or romantic budding sexuality. All those things. Right.

Then when you place the word budding at the beginning of sexuality, it just makes it so much more awkward. Right. Isn't that weird budding, sexual? It's weird. Well, because it implies everything that it is, which is youth. I don't even know what's going on. It's budding. Right. That's what I think at least. I guess Chuck, we've reached the point that we should talk about when people started kissing. And we should say historians, anthropologists, psychologists, no one has any idea exactly when people started kissing, because we can't even say whether it's instinctive or learned. Right. Sure. But the earliest accounts that we have of kissing come about 3500 years ago. And it's described. It's not that word isn't used, obviously. But what

people are taking as a description of kissing appears in these ancient Vedic texts out of India. Yes. Sanskrit. Yes. I think they're in Sanskrit. They called it sucking face back then. It's evolved into kissing. After that, it started becoming a little more prevalent like art and literature. Right. That kind of thing. Like in a little text that you might sound familiar, the Vatsiyayana Kamasutram. AKA the Kamasutra. AKA penthouse letters. Yeah. Don't you find it funny that the book on sexual positions was written 3000 years ago or more? Sixth century AD. What I find funny is that no one's really improved upon this, you know, tome. You think they pretty much wrote the definitive book on sexual positions and sexuality.

I just find it interesting. But they also cover kisses, all kinds of kisses in the Kamasutra. Right. And that was a long, long time ago. Right. It was written standardized in the sixth century AD, but it had been passed down orally for centuries before that. Right. Yes. And so they think that probably kissing, they're not saying it originated in India, but this is where the earliest accounts are. So kissing originated in India. Well, and they think that the anthropologists think it's a learned behavior to think that Alexander the Great learned about it in India when he invaded and was like, this is awesome. Let me go take this back to Greece. And that he did.

The war on drugs impacts everyone, whether or not you take drugs. America's public enemy. Number one is drug abuse. This podcast is going to show you the truth behind the war on drugs. They told me that I would be charged for conspiracy to distribute 2200 pounds of marijuana. Yeah. And they can do that without any drugs on the table. Without any drugs. Of course, yes, they can do that. And on the prime example, the war on drugs is the excuse our government uses to get away with absolutely insane stuff. Stuff that'll piss you off. The property is guilty. Exactly. And it starts as guilty. It starts as guilty. Cops. Are they just like looting? Are they just like pillaging? They just have way better names

for what they call like what we would call a jackmove or being robbed. They call civil acid. Be sure to listen to the war on drugs on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast. Hey, y'all. This is Dr. Joy Horton Bradford, host of the award-winning weekly podcast Therapy for Black Girls. Our incredible community of sisters has been building the Therapy for Black Girls podcast for five years running. And over that time, we've published over 250 episodes and gained over 18 million podcast downloads. During this time, we've tackled the stigma surrounding mental health

and shared conversations to help us all understand ourselves and others a little better. Hundreds of incredible licensed mental health care professionals and other experts have joined us to share tips on taking better care of ourselves. We flip through the pages of your favorite romance novels with author Tia Williams, checked in with Grammy award-winning artist Michelle Williams, and discussed the hurdles of balancing competitive sports, motherhood and mental health with Olympic athlete Natasha Hastings. Five years down and many more years of work to be done. Join us now by checking out the Therapy for Black Girls podcast on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcast, wherever you get your podcast.

You know, I remember hearing a long time ago that kissing, I don't know where I used to get these facts. I think it was the same place where I heard that Genghis Khan killed 1.8 million people in an hour. But they said that kissing was located only in the Mediterranean up until 500 years ago, and that it is a symbol of our urge to cannibalize one another. Not true. I don't think that's true at all. I don't either. So we're in the Roman Empire now, and they kissed a lot. They kissed as greetings. They kissed their ruler's hands, sign of respect.

Right. It was out of respect. And they came up with the three categorizations of kissing. I know. The Romans really like to categorize things. There's love, different types of love. This one is there's osculum, which is a kiss on the cheek. There is basium, which is a kiss on the lips. And then there's seafing against this one. Civolium. Yeah.

Yeah, like, that's that kind of kiss. Yeah, that's a deep kiss. And it doesn't necessarily say anything about the French variety. But I think that's just sort of implied. Right. And historians also suspect that a lot of the kissing traditions we still hold today in the modern era were founded or originated in Rome, right? Yeah. Like there's a kissing to seal a wedding, the end of a wedding ceremony.

Yeah. You may now kiss the bride. Apparently, if you made out in front of a bunch of people, like you were married. That meant you were married? In ancient Rome, like, yeah. Whoa. I know. Yeah.

Do you know how many people would be married today? Lots of people. A lot. And divorced and married and divorced. Yeah. And also, since you said the sealed thing, the sealed with a kiss, we generally think of like a love letter sealed with a kiss. But back then they used to seal legal documents with kisses, which is a little weird to me.

Well, it kind of points out, it was weird to me too. I'm thinking, but it points out how seriously people took kissing back then. Yeah. It was relatively new, and like this is a big new thing. Or if I should say the learned behavior proponents are correct, it was relatively new. And they're like, this is very important. It's very sacred. Right.

And speaking of sacred, it played a big role in the Catholic Church. There was this thing called the Holy Kiss, right? Yeah. The Ocelum Passus. Yes. And they kissed the Holy Kiss. Basically, they thought you were transferring your spirit. Well, the Holy Spirit, the spirit of Christianity.

Well, when I say the spirit, what do you say, your spirit? Well, you said, yeah. No, the big one. Okay. The trinity. The dove. And they, unfortunately, the Protestant Reformation killed like everything else that was fun, killed the Holy Kiss as well.

Well, not just that. It also gave rise to articles like this, because in fact, writing a very sterile, scientific article on kissing is a very, very Protestant thing to do. It is. It's a very Protestant activity to engage in. Yeah, you're right. I never thought about that. But yeah, it went from the Christians that early Catholics kissed one another at Mass.

That was the Holy Kiss. And then in the 13th century, the Church was like, no, kiss this board instead. And they call it a Pax Board or Peace Board. So everybody kissed that. And then the Protestants came along and they're like, no kissing. Everybody just stare forward. Not even the Pax Board? No Pax Board.

Really? There's no more kissing. And then in Catholicism, it finally just basically went to the Pope's ring. That's what's kissed now is the Pope's ring. You know, I went to a church conference when I was a teenager and they were playing music and it was a big sing-along type of thing. And they said something about one of the guys says, you know, don't stomp your feet too rhythmically because that's a little too close to dancing.

I remember that distinctly made a big impression on me. Wow. It was like Footloose. Wow. Yeah. And you were Val. That explains a lot, doesn't it? Huh?

You were Val. No, I started dancing. I started breakdancing. That's Val. Oh. Wouldn't that his name? Oh, yeah, yeah. Couldn't make his name in Footloose.

Val. Yeah, my buddy's working on that remake right now. With Zac Efron? No, he's not in it. He was supposed to, he was first tapped to play it. No, it's a bunch of unknowns. Oh, okay. Yeah.

And Dennis Quaid. Okay. He's the preacher. So, let's talk about a little more non-fun sterile things like the orbicularis oris. Let's do that. The orbicularis oris? Well, yeah, there's certain muscles that you use when you kiss and in a very standard no frills kiss, the puckered kiss, that's the orbicularis oris at work, that facial muscle.

Yeah. But, if you people kiss like that, if they did, we would not reproduce. So, there's a bunch of other muscles involved, one of which, well several of which, actually tilt your head to the side, because apparently about two-thirds of people who kiss, so two-thirds of the 90% of humans who kiss tilt their head to the side, to the right. To the right, specifically. When they kiss, yeah. And apparently we develop a preference for this in utero.

Isn't that weird? Yeah, but it seems so natural to me, I just tilted my head to the left, and I can't imagine going to kiss my wife and tilting my head to the left. Well, one of the problems is, since everybody's tilting to the right, if you tilt your head to the left, you'd go in at the same angle too. That's so awkward. It is awkward. It's like the teeth knock.

That's when you know things aren't going to work out. But the teeth knock? Yeah, that's happening early on. I think it depends on the reaction. Really? Well, you can laugh it off and stuff. Sure. That's huge.

But you should also kind of sort of have that chemistry, I think, innately. A teeth knock is not a deal breaker. Wow, you are. I'm pretty tough. Wow. That's why I didn't date much. That's funny. I was turning left and knocking teeth.

You're like, look, Leslie, I'm very sorry. Like, you're a very nice girl, and I like your parents a lot, but your teeth brushed against mine in one of our early kisses, so this can't go any further. Yeah, I'm tough. Well. That's why I got married at like 36. No teeth knocking? No teeth knocking.

Do you want to cover those muscles? It's a lot of boring names. No, but let's talk about what they do. There's other muscles move the lips around. So instead of just puckering, you can be like, right? I just use several muscles, muscle groups. There's also ones that pull the corner of your mouth down and lower your lower lip,

like the depressor anguli oris. Apparently, if you hear the word oris in reference to a muscle, it's a facial muscle that is involved in kissing. And then, importantly, I would say the genioglossus, styloglossus, palitoglossus, and hyoglossus, all those muscles operate your tongue. The war on drugs impacts everyone, whether or not you take drugs. America's public enemy number one is drug abuse. This podcast is going to show you the truth behind the war on drugs.

They told me that I would be charged for conspiracy to distribute 2200 pounds of marijuana. Yeah, and they can do that without any drugs on the table. Without any drugs, of course, yes, they can do that. And I'm the prime example of that. The war on drugs is the excuse our government uses to get away with absolutely insane stuff. Stuff that'll piss you off. The property is guilty, exactly. And it starts as guilty.

It starts as guilty. Cops, are they just, like, looting? Are they just, like, pillaging? They just have way better names for what they call, like, what we would call a jackmove, or being robbed. They call civil acid for it. Be sure to listen to the war on drugs on the iHeart radio app. Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hey, y'all. This is Dr. Joy Horton Bradford, host of the award-winning weekly podcast Therapy for Black Girls. Our incredible community of sisters has been building the Therapy for Black Girls podcast for five years running. And over that time, we've published over 250 episodes and gained over 18 million podcast downloads. During this time, we've tackled the stigma surrounding mental health and shared conversations

to help us all understand ourselves and others a little better. Hundreds of incredible licensed mental health care professionals and other experts have joined us to share tips on taking better care of ourselves. We flipped through the pages of your favorite romance novels with author Tia Williams, checked in with Grammy Award-winning artist Michelle Williams, and discussed the hurdles of balancing competitive sports, motherhood, and mental health with Olympic athlete Natasha Hastings. Five years down and many more years of work to be done.

Join us now by checking out the Therapy for Black Girls podcast on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If, if, as Tracy Wilson who wrote this article puts it, if you decide to use it. Right. If you're from France and that's how you kiss, and those four muscles are going to control your tongue. Right. I was kind of surprised at first it was those four muscles, but when you look at the tongue,

it's extremely malleable and there's all sorts of like, you know, you can make, you can roll your tongue and make clovers out of your tongue. And it's a very specific control controllable piece of your body. Digit, is it a digit? I guess, have you ever seen a tongue outside of the mouth? What do you mean? Like a surgically removed tongue. Not a human one, gross.

Yeah. I saw one at the, um, the atomic bomb memorial museum in Hiroshima, the guy whose tongue was taken out and turned like black because he was exposed to radioactivity. And I can't, I've seen two, this was one of two tongues that I've seen completely removed, but there's like soft pallets attached that like spreads out and back. Really? It's really interesting looking. Crazy.

Yeah. You don't want to see a tongue outside of a mouth. Well, especially one that's, you know, was bombed. Right. I'm sure that didn't help. No. So obviously Josh, too, what happens when you kiss is you, like everything with the brain, you have to have the nerves from your face sending messages to your brain telling your

brain what's going on. And that stimulates a lot of things like dopamine and serotonin. Oxytocin is becoming an increasingly. Yeah, that's a big one. Important neurotransmitter. Yeah, what's the deal there? Well, it creates some feelings of affection, attachment, loyalty. They think that love in a lot of ways, especially intense early romantic love,

resembles addiction. So there's a lot of dopamine that gets released when you see the person that you're attracted to. But then over time, it turns into long lasting companionship love. That's oxytocin at work. And it's also very big in milk production as well. So it, that's very strange that I would have done that, but it forces milk production and it's also transferred from mother to child through breastfeeding. So it promotes feelings of attachment through that as well.

How about that? Yeah. Adrenaline, our old buddy with the fight or flight that we haven't talked about in a while. Okay, adrenaline. And all sorts of natural endorphins make that euphoric feeling come alive. And not only that, it actually increases your heart rate and your blood starts pumping more and you're getting more oxygen to your body just from kissing. Even if you're, you know, let's say lying down, you know, lying down.

If you're in a prone position, let's say, and you're kissing somebody, your heart rate still get increases if you're like exercising. Right. I think you're prepping for physical activity, relations. I think so. Thank you. Should we mention the one study? I know we looked at this when we did the webcast about the smell.

Yeah. This fascinates me. I have, I want to believe it's correct because it's just so, it's elegantly simple. Yeah. But, but I think you should take it. This is, this was yours. Well, I think it's the, the situation is you can reproduce, you can reproduce with somebody who has a different immune system.

If you reproduce someone with different immune qualities that you have, you will produce a more robust, healthier child. Right. Because your kid's going to have your immunities and your husband's immunities or wives or reproductive partners, immunities combined. And apparently can sniff this out. Supposedly, here's the big problem with that. Like what you're talking about and what this theory is based on is pheromones.

And from what I understand, we've been shown to have an organ that at one time was capable of detecting pheromones, but that most humans, not all humans, most humans aren't capable of using this, this nasopharynxal organ any longer. We'll just call it the appendix. Okay. That's actually supposedly where I think some sort of antibodies go to basically hide out and generate backup and then go back and fight. Oh, really?

Infections and cancer and things again. I knew they were kind of thought they had figured out the appendix for a while. You don't just go removing organs willy-nilly just because we don't realize what they're for, you know? I know. That's what I said. It's like knocking Pluto off the list of planets. Exactly.

So were you done with your smell thing there though? I'm done. Okay. It was yours and I hijacked. I apologize for that Chuck. That's all right. There's been some recent studies in the past year that just I'll throw out a couple of stats from the University of Albany said that 59% of men and 66% of women report that after feeling

attracted initially to someone that the attraction ended after the first kiss 66% of women. That's but that's weird that makes you think about the I'm telling you. No, but it's like the immune protein idea. Like maybe these people had similar immune proteins and they found that in the kiss and were like, yeah, yeah, maybe I'm looking for a more robust less weekly child. All right. Yeah, that's a good point. And the same guy who did the professor at Albany that did that study said that he also

thinks that because saliva has testosterone, the fact that men prefer like sloppy kissing and conceivably a more wet saliva ridden kiss means that they are trying to transfer testosterone into the woman's mouth to trigger a sex drive. I don't know like an awful lot of conjecture. It's an awful lot of conjecture. And another recent study in England and this was like today I read this that apparently heterosexual males in England don't mind kissing. Yeah, apparently that has to do with their football culture, right?

Yeah, they said they interviewed 145 college and high school students. All of them straight as an arrow and that they 37% they had engaged in sustained kissing with another dude and didn't think it was a big deal. And 95% of athletes said they kissed another man compared to 80% of non-athletes. So they theorize it starts on the old soccer pitch. That's Gordon Ramsay's impact, clearly. Is it? Yeah.

So hey, while you swing in Brits out there, good on you. Yeah. And Chuck, I think that we should remain faithful to this article and end this podcast on kissing with some of the diseases you can catch from kissing. Go ahead. There's of course mononucleosis, the kissing disease, mono. I've never had mono. I have not either. That's dry while I don't know if that counts.

It does not. Maybe we hit a stud. Yeah. Yeah. There's herpes simplex 1, aka cold sores. Yeah. Menengitis, which is nasty stuff. But apparently you can, there's an outside chance you can catch it kissing. They think that some of the bacteria that causes gastric ulcers can be transferred from person

to person via saliva and kissing. And there is apparently one case recognized by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention here in Atlanta, GA, USA, that one case of HIV has been reported that's been transmitted through kissing. Wow. That's a downer. That's how kissing works. Well, that means there's like some two open sores at the same time in the mouth, right? I mean, I guess I remember HIV and AIDS first, like really kind of hit the public psyche.

Oh, yeah. It was like, can we sit on toilets? Oh, man. We all just shoot ourselves now. Like, what are we going to do? And kissing was a big one. And then as time went on, I remember somebody saying like the stat was you'd have to transfer a gallon of saliva to have a good chance of catching HIV or contracting HIV from somebody

through kissing. And you're like, yeah. But I'm sure you're right. I'm sure that that it was through like from sore to sore or something horrible like that through kissing. I mean, one case, you know, you're right. I'm just thinking about open source kissing. And yeah.

So if you want to read an article, read more about kissing and possibly decide to never kiss again after reading it, you can type in kissing in the swing and search bar at howstuffworks.com and homage to the British. And since I said that, the British, that means it's time for a listener mail. All right. Are they coming? They've already been here. Yeah.

This is from Sarah and it's about jealousy. And like you predicted, Josh, we've had a lot of people write in and said, I agree with Josh. And a lot of people said, I agree with Chuck. Yeah, it's healthy. It is. So with that in mind, Sarah has to say this, I have to agree with the notion that a small amount of jealousy is not only normal, but healthy.

So she's in the Josh game. I'm not talking about telling your significant other that they can't go here. Can't go talk to that person based on jealousy and calling that showing your love. I'm talking about having a twinge in your gut when you see or hear something that is generally a threat. If you don't have any fear about your partner ditching you, does that suggest that you don't care if your partner leaves you? I say no.

Or does that mean you're not realistic? Maybe. So say there's a bad day when you were a putt and that handsome guy at the farmer's market smiles a little too big at your wife and you see her. In fact, that makes her feel pretty. If that doesn't affect you at all, doesn't cause a little something in your gut, then does that also mean that you'll miss the opportunity to think, hey, maybe I should do a little something to make her feel pretty?

This is a great point. This is an excellent point. And if you do keep missing those opportunities, maybe you'll end up taking things for granted. I've expressed an appreciated, very small showings of jealousy. Husband doesn't want to dance at work parties, so I say fine and I dance without him. He sees a good looking guy come to dance near me and he suddenly feels like dancing with his wife. That is A-OK with me. Or when, let's say, my husband has a grocery store girlfriend, the cute checker who smiles

at him especially, I have playfully shown a little more PDA than usual when this happens and I know he gets a kick out of that. So Sarah, I'm down with that. I just don't call that jealousy. That's jealousy. I don't think so. I think jealousy is a palpable fear of losing somebody and I don't, I think that there's just that.

These are different degrees. That degree is where I draw the line and I don't call this jealousy. I just call it playful marriage shenanigans. Everyone, I would like to announce something. Mr. Charles W. Chuck Bryant is now a convert to jealousy in a relationship. There you go. Thank you, Chuck. And that was very nice of you to select that letter rather than one that was like,

Josh is wrong and here's why. Oh, that's coming up on the next one. Oh, just kidding. Thanks a lot, Sarah. I appreciate that email is very thoughtful and well-informed. If you want to send Chuck and me an email that's thoughtful and well-informed about, say, your first kiss, wrap it up, send it to StuffPodcast at HowStuffWorks.com. For more on this and thousands of other topics, visit HowStuffWorks.com.

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I'm Langston Kermit. Sometimes I'm on TV. I'm David Bowden. I'm probably on TV right now. David and I are going to take a deep dive every week into the most exciting ground breaking and sometimes problematic black conspiracy theories. We've had amazing past notable guests like Brandon Kyle Goodman, Sam Jay, Quinta Brunson and so many more.

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