Stuff You Should Know - Body Language!

Episode Date: January 7, 2016

Body language is how you communicate without words. Some say it bears more impact in communication than speaking words. Learn about how you say what you say could mean more than you think. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

On the podcast, Hey Dude, the 90s called, David Lasher and Christine Taylor, stars of the cult classic show, Hey Dude, bring you back to the days of slip dresses and choker necklaces. We're gonna use Hey Dude as our jumping off point, but we are going to unpack and dive back into the decade of the 90s.

We lived it, and now we're calling on all of our friends to come back and relive it. Listen to Hey Dude, the 90s called on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Lance Bass, host of the new iHeart podcast, Frosted Tips with Lance Bass. Do you ever think to yourself, what advice would Lance Bass

and my favorite boy bands give me in this situation? If you do, you've come to the right place because I'm here to help. And a different hot, sexy teen crush boy bander each week to guide you through life. Tell everybody, ya everybody, about my new podcast and make sure to listen so we'll never, ever have to say. Bye, bye, bye.

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Hey guys, we are going to be live in person, not just disembodied voices, but just standing there. Yeah. Hair and all. Clothes on? Most likely. Probably. Yes.

From the waist down at least. Right. We're like reverse Donald Duck's. Yeah. Are we going topless? I guess. I never forget. He just wore a shirt and a hat.

Yeah, he didn't have it on pants. Wow. Anyway, we're doing a live show. That's right. We're doing several live shows for our warmer climbs winter tour. And we're sold out in San Francisco. Boom.

San Diego. Cabal. And Austin. So you guys are on our Christmas list for next year. Yeah, you are. But there are still tickets available in Dallas and Atlanta. On a different list.

Boo. In Birmingham. In Birmingham and New Orleans. You can still get seats there. Man, we're all over the map. That's right. So just go to sysklive.com, powered by Squarespace. Yeah.

As is our tour. Yes. And go check it out, man. We'll see you in January, right? Yes. You got any other tidbits? No. OK.

Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, from HowStuffWorks.com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. This is Charles W. Chuck Bryant. Jerry's in the house. We're back to basics. Yeah. We're doing a social sciences episode.

Oh, man. I mean, we're all right, man. We get to tear it apart. You believe in body language? Sure. Watch this. You're winking and shouldering and nodding your head, and you're loosening up, and you're

doing some weird biting thing. What did I say? You said I'm feeling silly. That's exactly what I was saying. How about that? Yeah. Said I've had a diet mountain dew, and I'm pepped up. Oh, OK.

That's what I was saying. I missed the. No, I'm crashing. And he's down. You doing good? Yeah. I'm hanging on by a thread. Are you?

Sure. We can make it through this, man. You can do this in your sleep. OK. Don't go to sleep. OK. It'll be so boring. You could theoretically do this in your sleep.

Yeah. OK. I got you. Yeah. So body language, it is a thing. When I was researching, I was like, this is junk science. There's no way this is real. And I could not find anything that just said, yes, body

language is obviously junk science. Apparently, it's very well established and well reputed. I mean, I understand like, yes, there is such a thing as body language rooted in evolution. It's basically evidence of evolution from an mammalian ancestor. But the idea that you can read somebody, especially like that facial coding system, it just struck me

as really junky. Yeah. Well, I could have sworn we had done this one when I. We did micro expressions. Yeah, we did that in, I think, 2009. And I don't remember how I weighed in on it back then. So I'm just going to start anew. Yes.

It may be a different take. I have no idea. People grow and change their opinions of all, you know? Well, here's what I think. Of course, body language is real. And it can tell you a lot. Can tell you a lot. But it can also be misdirected very easily.

Sure. And I mean, we'll get to it. But I found some stuff from a former FBI guy even. That doesn't say it's junk science, but he's like, you can fool somebody, too. If you're a sociopath, you know this about body language and micro expressions. Yeah, yeah.

Apparently, it's a myth that. That's how I get by. Apparently, it's a myth that not having eye contact means deception. While it can, his whole point is they've done studies over the years. And habitual liars and antisocials in psychopaths have the most eye contact, apparently.

Probably because there's that myth. Yeah, exactly. So it's like a self-fulfilling myth. Yeah, Ted Bundy was probably like, I got to make great eye contacts with everyone I speak with. I'm looking into your soul. Otherwise, the jig will be up. Right.

And I won't get to kill people any longer. My favorite thing. Right. And then so yeah, there's a lot of myth. There's that one myth also where you look up into the right or up into the left if you're lying or recalling. Yeah. I can't remember.

We debunked that in something here, there, a while back. Yeah, I think body language is fun to talk about and study. But when you're convicting someone as a jury based on micro expressions. Yes, there's where the junk science comes in for me. It gets a little dangerous. And not just with body language, too. We need to do a whole episode on forensics in general

and just how junky the science that most of it is based on. It's basically the only thing that's less standing is DNA. And even that can be wildly misinterpreted. Yeah. And we're using this to execute people. Yeah. And there's a big problem with it. So I think we've arrived at my problem with it.

It's junk science when you apply it for law enforcement. Yeah, as fact. Yeah. Agreed. OK. So can we be done? This is the other thing that got me, too. Albert Mehrabian, I totally nailed that guy's name.

I bet the H is silent. Meribian, Meribian. I bet it's just Meribian, not Mehrabian. Anyway, Dr. Meribian, back in 1981, said that in the first four minutes of meeting someone, our facial expressions account for 65% of the impression we make. 7% of that impression comes from our actual words.

While the remainder of the information comes from our tone of voice. Yeah. That I think is what made me think like, no, this is all BS. Yeah, because it sounds, who can say that? You can't. Maybe in 1981, you could get away with that crap. Not in 2015.

No, 16. Yeah. You lived in the past. Yeah, Meribian was probably one of the first researchers to study this in the 1940s out of UCLA. And I agree, you can't just break down percentages. I think what he really means to say, if I may speak for him, is facial expressions and tone of voice

account for a lot of what you're getting out of a person. And I don't think anyone would disagree with that. And the words account maybe for even less than those two things combined. I think people would agree with that, too. I think it's when you quantify it. Yeah, sure. 7%.

He just said that just because it sounds authoritative. Yeah, like he fed it into the percentage maker 3,000. And it spit it out. But that is not to miss the point that communicating inadvertently is something that we all do. Through body language, sure. There's a great quote I ran across on a Psychology Today post.

The quote comes from a 16th century Scottish mathematician named John Napier. And he said, if language was given to men to conceal their, oh, you found it, too, huh? Yeah, it's a good one. It's about as good a quote of body language as you can come up with. You do it, Chuck.

No, you were already halfway through. You do better 16th century Scottish mathematicians. No way. I'm not doing it. Do Sean Connery reading this? Oh, man. If language was given to men to conceal their thoughts, then gesture's purpose was to disclose them.

That's perfect. Not bad. That was a dead on John Napier. It's not as good as my crystal fault. So Napier makes a pretty good point. Like, yeah, language has all sorts of structure and can be mastered. Body language is much of it is just inadvertent.

And we don't even realize, necessarily, when you're picking up on it, you just get this weird gut feeling that, no, I don't trust this car salesman, or I want to give this car salesman all my money, depending on the body language. Yeah, and it's pretty clear that this started a long time ago, like it predates language. Because who wrote this, by the way?

This is a Patrick Keiger joint. Oh, Keiger? Yeah. Keiger says, rightfully, that in Tuk Tuk's age, you didn't have a lot of time to suss things out, like up close and personal. Once you got close enough within striking distance. You can be stricken.

Yeah, you might already have that club upside your head, or that rock in your face. So you needed to judge someone's body language as they approach you to survive. Yes, so body language makes sense. And you would also presuppose that since we are descended from animals, and animals clearly do engage in body language, that body language would

be older than language. Although this article says that language didn't exist until about 100,000 years ago, that's under dispute. Oh, really? Possibly as much as a million years ago, people were using some sort of verbal communication. Oh, wow.

Yeah. And Neanderthals, apparently, also had language, probably. Interesting. It is pretty interesting. I'd like to do one on animal communication. Have we not? I think we touched on it here and there. But I know there's a lot of things

like cats purring and tails wagging on dogs that are misinterpreted or like a wolf growling. I think that means, come pet me. You know, it's often misinterpreted as a warning. Come take this steak out of my mouth, if you dare. Should we take a break? Sure. All right, let's take a quick one.

And we're going to get back and explain a little bit more about what one researcher calls thin slices of experience. MUSIC On the podcast, Hey Dude, the 90s, called David Lasher and Christine Taylor, stars of the cult classic show, Hey Dude, bring you back to the days of slip dresses and choker necklaces.

We're going to use Hey Dude as our jumping off point, but we are going to unpack and dive back into the decade of the 90s. We lived it, and now we're calling on all of our friends to come back and relive it. It's a podcast packed with interviews, co-stars, friends, and nonstop references to the best decade ever. Do you remember going to Blockbuster?

Do you remember Nintendo 64? Do you remember getting Frosted Tips? Was that a cereal? No, it was hair. Do you remember AOL Instant Messenger and the dial-up sound like poltergeist? So leave a code on your best friend's beeper, because you'll want to be there when the nostalgia starts

flowing. Each episode will rival the feeling of taking out the cartridge from your Game Boy, blowing on it and popping it back in as we take you back to the 90s. Listen to Hey Dude, the 90s, called on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Lance Bass, host of the new iHeart podcast, Frosted

Tips with Lance Bass. The hardest thing can be knowing who to turn to when questions arise or times get tough, or you're at the end of the road. OK, I see what you're doing. Do you ever think to yourself, what advice would Lance Bass and my favorite boy bands give me in this situation? If you do, you've come to the right place,

because I'm here to help. This, I promise you. Oh, god. Seriously, I swear. And you won't have to send an SOS, because I'll be there for you. Oh, man. And so my husband, Michael.

Um, hey, that's me. Yeah, we know that, Michael. And a different hot, sexy teen crush boy bander each week to guide you through life, step by step. Oh, not another one. Kids, relationships, life in general, can get messy. You may be thinking, this is the story of my life. Just stop now.

If so, tell everybody, yeah, everybody, about my new podcast and make sure to listen, so we'll never, ever have to say bye, bye, bye. Listen to Frosted Tips with Lance Bass on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you listen to podcasts. So Josh, I said something about thin slices of experience. And I'm not talking about the roast beef line at the buffet. Which is great thin slices.

Well, those are the carving station. Yeah, yeah. You ever work at a carving station? Have I ever worked one? Yeah. I've hung around one long enough that I basically should have been paid, but I was just eating. What do you wait for the next roast to come out

so you can get the end cut? I know I've never been into end cuts, whether it be a loaf of bread or cut of meat. Oh, really, like a prime rib end cut? Yeah, no. Daddy, that's good. Isn't it all salt? Maybe that's why I love it.

You like the salt, huh? Oh, yeah. Yeah, I'm. To me, it's like the closer you get to the middle, the juicer it is. Well, that's true too. I like the lower cooked, you know? And a little rarer in the middle, obviously.

Yeah, so I think that's my problem with the end of anything. It's undercooked. You know, I have a theory about why people don't like to eat the crust. Why? Because it's called crust. And that might be part of it. If, like, 100 years ago, they named it, like, the.

The butterfly? Yeah, the butterfly slice. Yeah. People would have been fighting for it. Yeah. Like, the butterfly slice is delicious. Yeah. Have you ever heard George Carlin's little take

on that end slice that everybody always goes past? They're like, I'm not going to eat that. That's the poison piece of bread. I'll leave that for my family to eat. Wait, I guess the end piece isn't called the crust, so is it? The crust is what's around. But it's all crust.

That's the problem with it. Oh, OK. You know what I mean? Sure. It's nothing but crust. Yeah. Not but crust. It's nothing but crust.

I think the other weird, man, this is a g. You're so juvenile. This is a strange tangent. I think the other problem with the bread end pieces is that eating one end piece with a regular slice is a little weird. Oh, it's, yeah. But getting that other slice off the tail end

is not very feasible or efficient. No. To make two crust pieces. No, but that frequently is the last sandwich that's made out of the loaf, because that one end piece has been hanging around. Yeah, yeah. And then it finally works its way to its mate.

Yeah. And then you stick some turkey in it and weep quietly while you eat your terrible sandwich. Man. Thin slices. Where were we? Thin slices. Thin slices.

Yes, this is a professor of psychology named Nalini M. Badi from Tufts University. Shout out to my buddy Robert Chihade from high school. OK. He works at Tufts. Speaking of, there's a kid with a really huge hit single out right now from your high school. Really?

I think your high school is shown in the music video. It's Watch Me Whip, Watch Me Nene. It's Redan? Yeah. Weird. Yeah. Cilento. So I'm no longer the most famous person from high school.

You were until about six months ago. And I will be again in another six months. Maybe. It's a pretty catchy single. It's a hot, hot, hot track. No, we actually, we had several professional athletes that are much more popular than me. Who?

We had a professional punter. Actually, I may have before told me that before. Yeah, we've had a few. There's a baseball player. We had a punter. Travis Tritlin to my high school. Shut up. Really?

No. See, that's big time. Yeah. Yeah, Travis Tritlin is big. Yeah, I don't have any like superstars. Luke Bryan went to Umi's high school. Man, you guys, where'd you go? Beverly Hills 90210?

Yeah, with Shannon Dougherty. Oh boy, here we go again. Thin slices from Tufts University. Well, let's talk about the thin slices thing, man. The, you said earlier that it would be very advantageous, evolutionarily speaking, to be able to read maybe the rough intentions of some other hunter-gatherer 100,000 years ago.

Read the room. Like from a distance before they could hit you with a rock, right? If that was their intent. Sure. Well, just as much, you want to be able to walk through the world and be threatened by stuff and to make snap judgments about it based on things

like body language. Same thing. And this is what the thin slices has to do with. Yeah, they're just those first few seconds when you meet somebody. And I mean, some people may just call it a gut instinct about somebody, but what you're probably doing is reading body language.

That's what that gut instinct is. Yes. And those things are processed and generated in, I think, the limbic system, where emotions and feelings are processed in the brain. Yeah, limbic system, from what I understand. That's right, which she thinks, and I agree with her, that might explain why we have such a powerful gut

instinct about some people when we first meet them, because it's tied to emotion. Yeah. And the whole point is, is this guy will cut your throat if you turn your back on him. Right. Probably not, but in our modern context, it's this guy will inflate the price of the car

you want to buy if you're not careful. Yeah. It's this totally different thing, but it's based on the same principle. It's all based on body language. And we're able to make snap judgments that we can't even stop and really analyze what it was that person did or what it was about them.

We just know that we trust them or don't, or we feel comfortable around them or not, or we fear them or we don't. Yeah. Based on this body language, and what this professor is saying is, we have a very ancient part of our brain that is responsible for processing this stuff. Yeah, and I think, just for me personally,

I think if you try to focus on that too much, then you're not doing yourselves any favors. Like, let it be innate. Well, yeah. There's some people who coach this kind of stuff that apparently say, no, do all sorts of crazy weird stuff, which we'll talk about later. Yeah, I agree.

But what you're looking at are, there's three different categories, I guess, innate, learned, and some that are both hybrid expressions and postures and things that you do. And like, for instance, you're born with, like, you can blush. That's an innate thing. You blush, you don't mean to blush. Especially when somebody's staring at your cheek.

Yeah, I don't think you can make yourself blush. Watch this. So just think about hot things in your mouth. Just tighten up your core. So that's the innate side. Learned would be things like hanging someone a bird out the car window. Right.

Because everyone knows what that means. Depending on where you are. And you've learned it. Yeah, that's not something you're born doing. Like, yeah, I got your diaper right here. Come change it. A photo of a baby accidentally shooting a bird is one of the great things that we agree.

But it's accidental. There's no meaning attached to it. That's what you think. And then there's hybrid gestures that are like shrugging is a really good example. It's something you naturally shrug, right? Right. But it's not contextual until you learn

what to attach it to. Like, I don't know. Sure. You're not born being like, I don't know. Right, or you cry, but you've also learned that crying can get you something maybe. Right, or try to get out of a traffic ticket or something. Sure.

Or to gain sympathy. It can chase your parents off to the bar. Crying? Yeah, yeah. One of those. And then Chuck, I said something about how flipping somebody a bird, everybody knows what that means. It does depend on where you are.

Sure. Because there is, especially with learned. So I think innate body language is virtually universal. Stuff that you couldn't possibly control. Like, I can't remember why I read it. But if you take a bite of something putrid and you make that horrible disgusted face like, oh my god, I'm about to vomit everywhere.

Right. Everybody who's watching you doesn't have to go, give me that. And then take a bite and taste it themselves. Right. They can look at your face and be like, I'm not going anywhere near that piece of feces that guy just took a bite of.

Yeah, or the. That's how we all learn not to eat feces. Yeah, but there's also the human thing where you're like, oh god, smell this. Right, that's the person who wants everyone else to suffer like they just did. But everybody else has just been communicated to by that innate face, that nasty face that you would make

when you eat something disgusting. And again, that evolutionarily that protects us in that respect, innate stuff. So that's universal. Sure. But it's the learned stuff that's culturally dependent. Yeah, like for instance, they have a few examples in the article.

Smiling in the US might mean, and the United States might mean you're happy. Apparently in Asia, it might say, I agree with you. Those are pretty close. It could also cover up embarrassment. If they're embarrassed for you or something, they might smile. Yeah.

Is that why everyone's always smiling at me? They're embarrassed for me. What else? Eye contact varies from place to place. Here in the United States, someone might think you're listening and like very keyed into what you're saying. Or you're Ted Bundy. Or you're Ted Bundy.

Or if you're in Africa, maybe, it might be disrespectful to look someone right in the eye. Yeah, and I looked around to find out what part of Africa, because I hate to leave it like that, you know? On this massive continent. Right. Do not look people in the eyes. Yeah, I doubt it.

I couldn't find any. Everyone said some parts of Africa. Everywhere I looked. No one specifically said in the Congo it's considered impolite or aggressive or something like that to maintain eye contact. It's definitely in Japan. If you make eye contact with somebody, you are saying I'm your superior.

So if you are socially or say business-wise and inferior to somebody, you're averting your gaze and it's respectful. In the US, you shake hands and you make eye contact and you just, you know, climbed a wrong right there. Unless you're Prince and then he's like, nobody can hide eye contact with me. Is that for real? Because he likes to do things that just mess with people for fun.

I think 90% of the stories you've heard about Prince are not true. What about him playing basketball? He's like a really good basketball player, though, says Charlie Murphy. Well, I believe in everything Charlie Murphy says. I found some more culturally bound stuff. What else? Thumbs up in New Zealand does not mean like right on.

Does that mean to like thumb up your butt? Pretty much, really. Yeah, you don't want to do that. Similarly, when you make like the peace sign, as long as you're not showing the people the back of your hand. Sure, in England that's... Yeah, and in Australia and I believe New Zealand too. Like that movie Bad Taste, the cover of it,

that I think Peter Jackson's first or second movie. Oh, right. The cover of it's like an alien going like that and I'm like, what's he, what's two? Yeah, why is he showing me the number two? Then as I grew up, I learned to understand what that was. What else you got? In some cultures, nodding means no.

Like nodding yes actually means no, like in Greece and Bulgaria. Oh wow, that could get you in trouble. Yeah, and in Mexico, Mexico, this is what I found. Mexico, Haiti, and Spain. It is perfectly normal to go to a waiter, which I do, I don't do it to waiters, but I'm a kind of person. Oh really? That's how you call someone over and get their attention.

You may also make kissing noises at them. To a waiter? Yeah. Really? Yeah. So I go to Mexico, I need my check, and I go... I guess according to this thing that I read, which seemed pretty legitimate.

Interesting. Yeah. What was the website? I don't remember. I'll definitely send it to you to post, but it's... It was researched material to be used by business people around the world. If it was a hoax, then they did a pretty good job fooling me.

Gotcha. All right, well let's take another break, and we'll come back, and we'll talk about deciphering some of these nonverbal cues right after this. On the podcast, HeyDude, the 90s called David Lasher and Christine Taylor, stars of the cult classic show, HeyDude, bring you back to the days of slip dresses and choker necklaces. We're going to use HeyDude as our jumping off point,

but we are going to unpack and dive back into the decade of the 90s. It's a podcast packed with interviews, co-stars, friends, and nonstop references to the best decade ever. Do you remember going to Blockbuster? Do you remember Nintendo 64? Do you remember getting Frosted Tips? Was that a cereal? No, it was hair.

Do you remember AOL Instant Messenger and the dial-up sound like poltergeist? So leave a code on your best friend's beeper, because you'll want to be there when the nostalgia starts flowing. Each episode will rival the feeling of taking out the cartridge from your Game Boy, blowing on it and popping it back in, as we take you back to the 90s. Listen to HeyDude, the 90s called on the iHeart radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Lance Bass, host of the new iHeart podcast, Frosted Tips with Lance Bass. The hardest thing can be knowing who to turn to when questions arise or times get tough, or you're at the end of the road. OK, I see what you're doing. Do you ever think to yourself, what advice would Lance Bass and my favorite boy bands give me in this situation?

If you do, you've come to the right place, because I'm here to help. This, I promise you. Oh, god. Seriously, I swear. And you won't have to send an SOS, because I'll be there for you. Oh, man. And so will my husband, Michael.

Um, hey, that's me. Yeah, we know that, Michael, and a different hot, sexy teen crush boy bander each week to guide you through life, step by step. Oh, not another one. Kids, relationships, life in general, can get messy. You may be thinking, this is the story of my life. Just stop now.

If so, tell everybody, yeah, everybody, about my new podcast and make sure to listen, so we'll never, ever have to say bye, bye, bye. Listen to Frosted Tips with Lance Bass on the iHeart Radio App, Apple Podcast, or wherever you listen to podcasts. All right, so language is a very precise thing, or it should be, or it can be. Body language, you would think, is just all over the map.

But there are actually some categories that some brilliant social scientists have come up with. Yeah. And I think they make sense. Yeah, basically, they've broken it down into five categories, or five types of nonverbal communication in body language. Yeah. There's emblems.

It's like hanging a bird. Yeah, or shaking your fist, or something like that. Something that is very symbolic of something else that you can also put into words, right? Who shakes a fist at someone? Some people do. OK. It's a good, it's a good, yeah.

Yeah, because it's saying, like, that middle finger, and then you're cooking a gas. Really, that's very aggressive. OK. That's very aggressive. I'm just kidding, I never flicked someone a bird. Oh, really? Oh, yeah.

Like in a car or something? No way. Yeah, apparently, it's really dangerous. Yeah, and that's why I do it. I think it's just, I mean, I'll get mad and say things, but I would never, I don't know who that person is. Yeah, could be a psycho. Yeah, then you're getting chased,

or you're getting shot at by someone, because you felt like you just had to shoot a bird. Yeah, we talked about this in the Road Rage episode. Yeah, I wouldn't hang people to bird. That's not smart. By the way, I want to update on that. I've been improving more and more behaviorally, even since the Road Rage episode.

And I was already on the right path then. So you're doing good behind the wheelies? I'm doing so good. I feel like I'm about the same. Well, you've always been that way. No, I get mad. One time you rode with me, I think it was the first time you ever rode with me,

and I started yelling at somebody, you're like, really? You seem genuinely surprised. And I remember thinking like, this is abnormal. What's wrong? Well, that was probably because you were like sending an email with your left hand and driving with your knee and had a coffee and the other. I've gotten so much better.

That's good. It's because you value your life. I do. That's great. Emblems, after emblems, illustrators, which like shaking your head as far as emphasis, to emphasize something you're saying. Right.

Like no. Sure. You can just say no, but the person's like, it doesn't really mean that until you shake your head while you're saying no. And it's just like if you do it slowly, that you're really saying like, do not ask me again. Yeah.

Boy, I never thought about that. The slow one really does mean something different. It does. It adds. It bulks it up, you know? Regulators, I think this is in a conversation to let someone else know that maybe, all right, it's time for you to talk now, or it's time for me to talk.

Or it's time for us to stop talking, like looking at your watch. Just getting the walking away. That's body language. Yeah, I guess it is. It definitely speaks volumes. There's adapters, which I guess have to do with the person listening, or I guess anybody,

either one, making themselves more comfortable. Like when you're in a conversation with somebody and they just kind of shift in their seat. Like settle in? Yeah. Now they could be doing it differently where they're fidgeting, they're shifting in their seat uncomfortably

like they can't get comfortable. That's something totally different than somebody who's just settling in, just making themselves more comfortable. Right, or I guess if you're having a conversation and someone just sits up on the edge of their seat, that kind of says, we're done here. Sure.

Like I'm about to get up. Yeah. So please say something in closure. Yeah, especially if you sigh while you do that too, you know? Yeah. And then there's affect displays. And these are the ones that most people think of when they think of body language.

These are the ones where you make that face when you eat something putrid or your shoulders go up around your ears when you're scared all of a sudden. Yeah, if you're mad, it's emotional based. Yeah, emotion based. Yeah, like your eyebrows furrow. Right. There's just so much body language.

I came across this one guy from 1978, an MR guy. No idea what the M stands for. But in 1978, Professor MR guy, a researcher of body language, said that there's probably something like 700,000 words in the body language, human body language. I have no idea how he or she came up with that. That seems high. But it's fun to throw out there.

Junk science. 1978. Yeah, you could say anything back then as far as like social psychology. Misinterpreting body language, we talked a little bit about that. That is very easy to do. They have one little anecdotal story about a woman who was a consultant that I think she was pitching

in the CEO of a big company. And the guy just sat there basically with his arms crossed and didn't emote. And Ian was just like, thank you. And she thought, well, I've blown this one. And turns out that is just the way that guy is. He's like a jerk. He loved the presentation.

And if he hadn't liked it, he just would have left is what the partner said, I think. Yeah. So you can easily misinterpret body language. I don't know if it's, I guess it could be dangerous. And that, well, I mean, that's part of the problem. It can be dangerous, especially when you apply it to law enforcement.

Like Paul Ekman, we talked about him heavily in the micro expressions episode because he basically studied micro expressions through facial movement, facial muscle movement, and figured out what each one meant. And he came up with the facial action coding system, the FACS, which apparently the FBI and other law enforcement agencies use to tell whether you're lying or you're hiding something in an interrogation.

Misreading that, that's dangerous. That's when it becomes dangerous, for sure. Yeah, this dude I was talking about, Joe Navarro, who was a 25-year vet at the FBI. He's written a lot about body language. And he's one of the ones that warns about the myths and misreading things. But he wrote a whole article on shoulders.

And he said, everyone's always talking about the face and facial expressions. He thinks you can read a lot into the shoulders of a person, whether it's slumping or bowing up. And then he actually talked to criminals over his entire career and said, what do you look for in a victim? So if you're looking to not be victimized, you might want to avoid these things.

Looking frail or weak or not athletic. Yeah, work out. Or just try and carry yourself like you're not frail or weak. And I think that has a lot to do with the shoulders. Situational awareness, which is a big one, if you just have your head in the clouds. That's one for me. Maybe a target, what you're in your head about something.

Sure. Yeah. And then the way someone swings their arms, vigorously or a bit real subdued. Not at all, like on that one episode. Yeah, it's like the whole box. Yeah, it was that Raquel Welch. No, it was.

Well, yeah, it ended up as Raquel Welch. But it was Molly Shannon. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. She remembers she like swept. Yeah. Elaine's desk just cleans. Oh, man. Yeah.

I love Molly Shannon. She's one of my favorites. She's fantastic. So what was, yeah, the arm swing. And basically what these criminals would say to them over and over is silverbacks don't go after other silverbacks. They go after the weak ones. And they say it's the same with criminals.

So like keep those shoulders straight. And I was like, what's a silverback? I forgot. This sounds like a criminal corporate buzz speak. Yeah. Silverbacks, that's the local soccer team. How do you not know what that is? Is it?

Sure. That's what I thought. Yeah. What else we got? Oh, these people that try and coach you, we're going to mention them. Nutjobs. I don't think they're nutjobs.

Dude, OK. The one person who emerges a hero from this article says, be very careful in trying to pay attention to your body language and speak consciously through it. Because you're going to have massive problems. Yeah. That's not what body language is intended for. So the people who say, no, master your body language

and use it to communicate, you're going to come off as a creep. Right. An aggressive, weirdo, corporate creep, if you do that. Well, yeah. And I mean, if you're making a presentation, it's hard enough to get the words right. Yeah.

So if you start thinking about every single movement you make and what that conveys, I agree. I don't think you're doing yourself any favors. Or like if you go to, again, a car sales, a car lot, right? Yeah. And you're like, I'm going to make sure I look very defensive and aggressive. So I'm going to go rigid and my shoulders are going to go up.

Right. The car sales is going to be like that guy's walking like a robot. I'm going to take him for a ride. True. You know? You could conceivably speak through your body language more. I don't dispute that.

Right. You can become more aware of your natural body language too. I don't dispute that either. But when you focus on it and use it as a technique to manipulate other people, I have issues with that. Well, here was one idea I didn't think was terrible. Like if you do a lot of public speaking, then maybe watching yourself with the sound off.

Sure. I didn't disagree with that one either. That's not a terrible idea, I think. As a matter of fact, I was like, maybe I should try that. No, don't do that. The other technique that was brought up was called mirroring. That means, and this just sounds crazy to me, this is when you actually try and mimic the person you're

talking to mimic their body language expressions to, I guess, to. Make them feel more comfortable to you. People are attracted to themselves as the basis of it. Oh, OK. So when you mimic them, they feel more relaxed around you. They're like, I really like that person. I like the cut of their jib.

I don't know. I can't put my finger on it. But they're actually mimicking your own body language. If you're leaning against the wall, they're going to lean against the wall too. That's disconcerting. It is. That's nuts.

You shouldn't do that to people. That's manipulative and weird. And just be yourself. How about that? Yeah, I think this quote sums it up. I'm trying to use body language by reading a body language dictionary. It's like trying to speak French by reading a French dictionary.

See, you can list off all the nonverbal cues in the world. But if you try and learn the body language quote unquote because of that, then you're just going to end up confused. Or you're going to miss something you actually said. Yeah, and plus also context is huge too. Like if you're just watching somebody's body language like a hawk in a conversation, you don't necessarily know that person's baseline.

So what is, by definition, in this body language dictionary, a red flag doesn't necessarily mean it's a red flag with that person. You know, like if they're yawning, are they bored? Or are they nervous? You've got to have context. And you can't just read people like that. It's stupid.

Go with your gut. Sure. But I don't think you should actively try to read it. If you want to, go ahead. I don't care. I'm not going to. I did read an article with one woman who was an expert supposedly.

And she did talk a lot about the baseline. She's like, that's the most important thing. You don't know. You got to know how someone normally is. Are they twitchy? Then if they're twitching in conversation, that's normal for them. Right.

It doesn't mean that you can't trust what they're saying right then. It just means that they're a little awkward. Like me. You're not awkward. You got anything else? Nope. Friends, that is body language.

And if you want to know more about it, you can type these words, body language, into the search bar at housetoforks.com. And since I said friends, it's time for listener mail. This is from, this is a question, actually. I said we'd answer on the air. Hey, guys. I've been listening for quite a few years.

And you've seen me through a lot of years of growth out of high school and into my own as an adult. A question that's been a challenge for me recently. I'm studying permaculture quite intensively. And parts of the study are pretty depressing. Like climate change, species lost, and unfair trade. I try to reflect positives only to my clients who are trying to grow their own food,

because I'd rather encourage them to sustain themselves physically and emotionally than feel guilted or trapped into changing a lifestyle. I realize that having the opportunity and time to focus on ethical choices is a luxury and want to avoid shaming people. I think this approach is good for my own well-being, because tackling issues bigger than myself

seems more harmful than productive. But like you, part of my job is education. So the question is, how do you guys deal with darker topics that you cover? I really appreciate the way you do it. And I would like some insight and advice how you prevent these topics from weighing too heavily on you and still live a life of enjoyment,

yet conveying topics honestly. And that is from Anna Lees in Australia. Nice. Thank you. I think my answer is when we cover something like dementia or HIV, like we recently did, we're always going to have humor in there, respectfully and in the right ways, because that's what we do.

But also, when we're getting this stuff across, it's not like we're causing dementia. We're just saying, here's all the information that we found on this. Here's everything you need to know about dementia. And I think the thing that allows us to go from a lighthearted topic to a very dark topic to whatever is that we're putting it out there as objectively as possible

or as unbiased as possible. Trying to. We're not passing much judgment on it, depending on the topic. But for the most part, we don't really pass too much judgment on it. And I think that allows us to talk about anything. Yeah, and as far as taking it home,

if we do something that's a big bummer that really impacts me, it'll bum me out for sure. But just like anything else, I think knowledge is key to the more you know about something, the less scared you might be of it. Yeah. How's that? You just go work it out, you know?

Good answer? Yeah, that's a great answer, Chuck. Me too. If you want to get in touch with Chuck, or me, or Jerry, or anybody who we could conceivably pass a message along to, you can tweet to us at syskpodcast. You can join us on facebook.com slash stuffyoushouldknow.

You can send us an email to stuffpodcast.howstuffworks.com. And as always, join us at our home on the web, stuffyoushouldknow.com. [? MUSIC PLAYING.?] For more on this and thousands of other topics, visit howstuffworks.com. [? MUSIC PLAYING.?] The 90s called on the iHeart Radio App, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Lance Bass, host of the new iHeart podcast, Frosted Tips with Lance Bass. Do you ever think to yourself, what advice would Lance Bass and my favorite boy bands give me in this situation? If you do, you've come to the right place, because I'm here to help. And a different hot, sexy teen crush boy bander each week

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