Stuff You Should Know - Dear Diary...

Episode Date: August 8, 2023

Diaries have been around for a long time. There are many famous ones, and tens of millions that will never see the light of day. Learn about the history and benefits of journaling today.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Just go to stuffyshudnow.com and click on the tour link and you can get all your tickets right there. Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of I Heart Radio. Hey and welcome to the podcast, I'm Josh Clark and Charles W. Chuck Bryan is here and this is Stuff You Should Know, dear diary edition. Well, I guess I'll just ask the obvious question, have you ever kept a diary of any kind? Any kind of journal?

Yeah, I think I did when I was younger, but I haven't in a long, long time. And it's one of those things like, I'm like, gosh, this is such a great idea. And I'll do it a couple of times and then just follow. Yeah. Follow up the wagon. I think it's one of those things then just follow up. Follow up the wagon.

I think it's one of those things that you can either be inclined to be one of those people that doesn't and keeps up with it or not, but you can also learn to do it, I think, with practice, like anything else, by setting that habit. And the reason I assigned this idea to Libya, who did a great job, because my my good friend Mike Anderson has kept a daily journal since 1991 dear Mike

It's pretty amazing. I obviously never read it, but it's just it comes up It it comes up every now and then because it's it is a journal of his life But what it serves as far as the friend group goes is a journal of all of our lives to a certain degree. And sometimes we'll be talking, we'll be camping or just hanging out or something, and we'll be talking about something that happened in the old days. And we won't be clear on it. And Michael just be like, you know, I can find that out for us.

And it's just, it's cool. It's a bit of a time capsule and, you know, it's a, he's currently getting them, I think, digitized from his old handwriting days, handwritten days rather. And I was like, you know, these are important, right? And you need to make sure, you know, we're all getting older. And like, what if a UFO picked you up and took you away,

and he's like, I got that cover my friend there, going to his daughter already, there will be preserved by her. And uh, I would, Mike said, crazy, weird, creative genius. So I'd like to see these like publish one day. Yeah, that's who you want to keep a journal for that long for sure. you want to keep a journal for that long for sure. It could be one of those things that comes out, you know, a hundred years from now and that's when he becomes famous. What year did he start? 1991 and it's 2023 so do the math. 32, no wait, 38 years.

Do the math. Are you sweating? My upper lip is. Anyway, so this is on diaries and this actually turned out at least in the history section to be way more woman-centric than I imagined it would be, but it makes a lot of sense now that I see the history of it. Well, yeah, and if you kind of dive into 10th century Japan, which we'll talk about in a second, there was a kind of a movement of journaling. A lot of people point to it is the first real historical example of people using diaries. They're writing because they're not allowed to be externally. So the only way to share

themselves is to write to themselves. And women have so long been repressed by men that I could see journaling being a largely woman of hair for most of history, I should say. Yeah, I mean, we can actually start with that because the earlier examples aren't really diaries. Like we're talking about a papyrus log book by an Egyptian official named Merer about limestone blocks being delivered for the pyramids at Giza. Not a diary. Not a diary, because there's nothing, you know know a diary is something personal about someone's experiences so he wasn't like tin blocks delivered today also feeling a little depressed if anyone cares it was just recording of things

Marcus Arelius the Roman Emperor got a little closer with his meditations because he did talk about things like here's how I'd like to I'd like to develop these character traits and cultivate these things in my life But it still was sort of abstract It wasn't like today this happened and I felt this way about it. So it's kind of these pillow books that are kind of the first diaries I think right? Yeah, and again, they came up among the ladies of the court in Japan in the 10th century. And again, they were extraordinarily repressed, but they were able to share themselves so eloquently that a lot of these, what are called pillow books survived. And one of them was essentially, so they would kind of veer into fiction and poetry and

stuff in addition to recording, you know, historical events at the court, both large and small, it could be gossip, it could be the death of an emperor. They're really good historical records, but they're also really good inward records of historical figures who otherwise wouldn't have, who would have been lost to history. And that, from that tradition of kind of veering into fiction a little bit, what considered the first novel, the tale of the Genji, came out in the 11th century by Murasaki Shikibu. I think I got that right. And that was basically the first novel that came out of the pillow books. Yeah, and there were the pillow books, which were written by many women.

They used a specific writing system that was, I think, the first purely Japanese system called Hiraguna. I'm probably going to get a lot of the stuff wrong. And that was compared to the official writing system called kanji, which I think was derived from Chinese and used exclusively by men. And this other writing system was used only by women, at least at first. I'm not sure if that changed. And I think it was a little simpler, but what it allowed for was, if you weren't like

formally educated, you could learn this writing system. And it allowed for more expression of emotion and like inner thoughts then it seems like Congee was a little more rigid and didn't have you know words and characters for that stuff. Pretty neat. So they wrote these pillow books. There's also one called the pillow book and that was a specific book written by how would you pronounce S E I as a first name?

Say. Say. Say. Say. Say. Say. Shona gun. And that was made into a movie in 1986. Peter Greenaway, the pillow book with what's his face? I'll be open.

How would I end up? How would I end up? No, what's a guy? You and McGregor. Who's in that? I thought he was home about Sir Alex Guinness. No. Europe, they started doing this in the Renaissance, right? Gregor was in that. I thought he was about Sir Alex Guinness. Europe they started doing this in the Renaissance, right? Started journaling?

Yeah, and what's interesting about that is this is when journaling really kind of became more widespread because the idea of individualism became more widespread around the Renaissance. So people started reflecting on their own experiences rather than, you know, just counting themselves as part of the crowd, it became, it mattered how they felt about something that happened and they started writing it down. So even though the pillow books kind of really kicked it off, there were several centuries where they just kind of fell away and then it was picked up again and really kind of took off. At least for those of us in the West, beginning in the Renaissance Europe. Yeah, around the same time Puritan started doing this stuff, Quaker started doing it,

but these, they were diaries, but it was a little more of a, you know, how can I be a better Puritan or a better Quaker, and you know, very sort of religious based, rather than just like hear my feelings about, you know, good you proctor. Exactly. Oh my god, I can't imagine they would write something like that. The French guy really into it too during the French Revolution, right? Yeah.

I don't know exactly what kicked that off, but they came up with what's called the journal intime, the intimate journal. And the British also said, hey, that's a pretty good idea. So they're writing about their inner lives, their inner feelings, thoughts, experiences. This is the, I guess the early 19th century. And that same century. So now people are, like just everyday people

are writing journals. So they're suddenly self-important. And one of the other big things, as far as diaries and journaling are concerned that came about in the 19th century, was publishing old journals and diaries as not just historical records, but as like kind of like for mass consumption as well. Yeah, which is really interesting

because I think it's super cool that you can go back and read firsthand accounts of the the the Westward expansion. And again, a lot of these were written by women and what they were going through at the time. It's like it's just a fascinating peak into these times that you can't get any other way. I mean, you can get artifacts. You can recreate scenes in a museum. You can paint pictures of stuff that happen, but like there is nothing like being able and I know they say pictures worth a thousand words. But I think it's kind of reversed in this situation. I think a diary is worth like a gazillion pictures. Very nice. You know, I was gonna say a thousand words in a diary is worth like a gazillion pictures. Very nice. You know?

I was going to say a thousand words in a diary is worth a picture. Right. Because you have worth one picture. But the idea that people were now willing to publish other people's journals and diaries that were not intended for publication, it actually created a new form, a new literary form, the journal, the diary, usually historical. And Livia points out that that kind of raised the question from that point on, like, are you really just writing for yourself?

Right. Or can you ever overcome the idea that if you don't destroy these before you die, that there's a chance that somebody might discover them and find them worth publishing. And so are you paying attention a little more to sentence structure, to grammar, to the words you're using? You're trying a little harder than you would. And therefore, is it a little less of something than it was before people started publishing these?

Yeah. Yeah, I get that question. There's one of our old favorites. Oscar Wilde, There's a very funny line and the importance of being earnest when a character won't let another read their diary. And she says, it is simply a very young girl's record of her own thoughts and impressions. And consequently meant for publication, when it appears in volume form, I hope you will order a copy. Pretty hilarious. It's good stuff. Very Oscar Wilde. So, the importance of being earnest came out in 1895, which means that that idea was established

by then, very well established. And not a lot happened for about a century, and then blogging came along in the late 90s. And all of a sudden, the whole point was to share your diary, your journal, your innermost thoughts. The thing about doing it online though, is now you had an option, you could share it with your intimits, your closest friends and family,

or, and like keep everybody else out. I don't know, through password protection, who knows? Or you could go the other way around, and blog anonymously and share it with everybody, but your closest friends and family have no idea to you if you do it correctly. Either way, you're sharing things in ways that that diarists never, ever did before.

Yeah, or blog non-anonymously for just anyone to read anything and that's kind of what social media ended up being. Yeah, just let it all hang out there. And isn't it great? Yeah. That happened? If everybody's ruining their own life, then nobody's ruining their own life.

Ha, ha, ha. All right, well, maybe it looks like an early break? Yes. Okay, we're gonna take an early break and we're gonna talk about some of the more famous historical diaries out there. All right, we were talking before the break about historical diaries and how I haven't ever really read one. I've read memoirs and things, which is fine.

That's different. Yeah, it's a different deal. I'd love to read one of these. It really like primed to my pump. Did that happen while you were living? It all hang out there? There's a naval administrator, a historical diary because he wrote about restoration and the great plague of London and the fire of London. And so not only do you have that stuff, but you have this stuff from his perspective and you also have him getting annoyed

in his marriage and talking about how excited he was about his new watch and like kind of fun things like that. Yeah, he's considered the greatest English diarist. And I'll own it. Last time he came up, I called him Peppies, I think. Probably. But people wrote in and corrected it, so we got it right this time. Yeah, this watch, can you read that? That's a pretty fun entry I think about his new watch. But Lord, to see how much of my old folly and childishness hangs on me still, that I cannot forebear carrying my watch in my hand in the coach all the afternoon and seeing what o'clock it is 100 times. That was my Samuel peeps. I love it. That's fun. He's like what that does is that makes it relatable because everyone has gotten a new watch or a new

shirt that they're like I've got to look in the mirror again see how the thing looks like people get excited about that stuff and it's fun to see Someone write about you know the fire of London in one hand and also talk about how excited they are about their new watch He wrote more than a million words to which on its its face sounds like a lot, but get this. The entire Harry Potter series is just over a million words. So he wrote about the same amount of words as the entire, all the books of Harry Potter by hand in less time than JK Rowling wrote them. Yeah. All right. Pretty nuts. Little shade. Yeah, all right.

Pretty nuts. Little shade? No, not really. I'm just, it's a good touchstone. Sure, plus we could shade her for all kinds of reasons. Sure. They don't involve speed of writing. If you really want to do that,

who's the Game of Thrones guy? That's what everyone's mad at him. Um, CC. CC Deville. No, what? This isn't in George R. Um, CC. CC Deville. Now what, isn't it George R.R. Martin? Yeah. Are they still mad at him? Jesus, people give him a break. I mean, isn't that the deal?

I don't even know anything about that stuff, but I think everyone's just like, why are you finishing yet? Well, what about Michael Schiner, Chuck? Yes, he was an enslaved person in Maryland and in 1805 was eventually free man, but he worked at the Washington Naval Yards for many decades and ended up keeping a 56 year diary that was maybe like my friend's mic one day that'll be published after he died by historians. So all of a sudden you have this amazing

account of the life of an enslaved person over 50 and then a free person over 56 years. Yeah He also was not educated born a slave. You typically weren't educated in fact That was usually illegal to educate a slave at the time typically weren't educated. In fact, that was usually illegal to educate a slave at the time. So he taught himself apparently. So he uses his own spelling, his own grammar, very little punctuation. And he had to conserve paper as much as possible. So he would kind of like write stuff wherever there was space on an old page that he left. Oh, wow. And yes, I think his grandson came along and kind of organized it and ended up being published. That's amazing.

Yeah. And that's one thing you'll see as a tip later on is to write as good as you can write. If you're not some fancy, great writer, like don't worry about it. Yeah. I mean, you can not just write punctuation in academic centuries later will come along and digitize your stuff and translate it essentially for everybody. It's that it can be that important. Yeah, absolutely. Josie Underwood is another great example. Probably the most famous civilian account of the Civil War. She was a unique, in a unique position because she was

from a southern family in Kentucky, a very prominent family in Bowling Green of slaveholders, but she was sympathetic to the Union cause. And, you know, she writes a very sort of honest first person account as someone from that perspective throughout the Civil War, and it became very famous. Yeah, but then, in her spurs with that, with being occupied by the Confederate Army and then the Union Army, she also talked about normal life for a society person

in Bowling, Greek, and Turkey, where going to parties or things like that, or looking for what she called her true prince, her husband. So it's very much like Samuel Peep's, there's historic events, but it's written from the perspective of the individual who also writes about themselves too. Yeah, and this, this stuff is, this is history. I mean, this is how we learn about history.

If you read history books and they describe in great detail about how life was, some of that is from research and, and clues and things like that, but some of that is from first-person accounts. Yeah. There was another very, very famous journal. I don't know if you'd call it a diary, but it was from Captain Robert Falcon Scott, who led an expedition to the South Pole in 1912, was trying to be the first expedition to the South Pole.

In fact, they reached the South Pole to find that arrival explorer had beat them by one month. And so they had to make it back to civilization. They never made it back. So Scott Chronicle, their slow demise over weeks, trudging through the Arctic or the Antarctic, I should say, just trying to get back to safety and then just not doing it. I bet that's a heavy read. It is. I was reading it today and it's just, it's crazy to put yourself in that situation,

which he makes it easy to do. In just these little, you know, few sentence, what do you call them? Not inscriptions or installations, entries. Uh-huh. It just a few sentences each, typically. But it really kind of draws you inside the tent where blizzards going and one guy's nose is falling off because it's so frostbitch. Right, geez. Everybody's trying to keep their spirits up kind of thing. Like, he really, it's a really moving journal, for sure.

There's another one and I never knew how to pronounce this name a nice name, but I finally today listen to the man on YouTube. Yeah. You ever listen to that guy? Yes. Today we will learn to pronounce the name. Who is that a real person? I don't know anymore. No one knows anymore. I gotta figure that out. That'd be a good short stuff, maybe even. Who's real? Who is that person? Okay. Who are these people?

All right, we'll do it as Jerry's time, Phil. Okay. Anyway, he said it was pronounced anisinin. And this was of course a very famous diary that she kept from age 11 until, and this was 1914 until she died in 1977. It was noteworthy and that it was very sort of body stuff for the time. She talked very personally about sort of romantic escapades that people did not talk about

at the time. It was published in 66, like a sanitized version and was a big hit with the ladies largely. And then she said, Hey, after I die, why don't you publish the full and unscensored version. But even the sanitized version was like, I've been leaving in double life. I've been having this affair. I'm married to two guys. I've split my life between New York and Los Angeles, and my husband doesn't know. Just all sorts of stuff, and she purposefully published them

while she was alive. And I mean, that's a tremendous amount of risk that she took on. She ended up becoming a feminist icon, like basically overnight as a result. Another icon, you can't talk about diaries. Yeah. Without talking about Anne Frank. This is something that I never knew.

Obviously, we'll tell you who Anne Frank is because I always think everyone knows, even because this is the second most widely read book in the world after the Bible. Anne Frank wrote a diary between 1942 and 1944 as a teenager. Started at 13 hiding from the Nazis with her family and wrote this diary. The thing I never knew is that she had planned to publish it. As the story goes, she was inspired by a radio transmission in 1944 from the Dutch government that said, hey, collect this and put it on paper, all this everyday material about Nazi occupation, like write it down so people know.

And so she did that and like rewrote it with the aim of publishing it before she was captured. Yeah, so that her original diaries considered diary A, like there's entire people have written these these on like parts of this stuff. So the first one's diary A, the one that she rewrote intended for publication that's considered diary B, and her father, Otto, the only one who survived the Nazi occupation in the Netherlands of the family because they were found out by the Dicastapo and taken to concentration camps, which is where

Anne Frank was murdered as a girl still. She would have been maybe 15 or 16 at the time. Auto survived and he was given her journals and basically had them put together Diary A and Diary B to kind of create like a version of it for public consumption. And after he died, they published the whole thing, and that's considered diary C.

And like you said, I mean, it's probably the second most read book in the entire world after the Bible. And for good reason, too. I mean, like this, the insight into history that it gives is just amazing and unparalleled. But also there is a poet named John Barryman who put it like this. He said that the book is about the conversion of a child into a person. And Frank's going through this conversion from age 13 to 15. Big, big difference in ages right there, 13 to 15, a lot happens. And she's doing it hidden away in an attic in the Netherlands hiding out from

the Nazi hiding for her life. You ever been to the Anne Frank House? No, I haven't. You ever been to Amsterdam? Yes. Okay. Make me feel bad though, I don't. No, you shouldn't feel bad. I've been there a few times and I went once. I didn't go two times. Well, at least you went once though. I don't even have that to boast about. But I would like to go though.

I mean, I can't imagine how moving that place is. Yeah. So those are some famous examples of famous journals, I guess. And you want to take another break and talk about why people might write journals in the first place. Yeah, I think it's another earliest break, but it lines nicely. Okay. So Chuck, there's all sorts of reasons to write in your journal, whether you're talking about limestone being delivered to Bill Apier mid or being enslaved in the Navy yards or being occupied by the Confederate Army

They're people have been doing it for centuries and centuries and centuries without any real intention to do anything other than Get their thoughts out on paper and it wasn't until the 1960s that psycho therapists were like, you know, there's something to that. People are putting their internal lives out into, you know, written form. They're getting out of their minds and into the world. There has to be some therapeutic benefit to that. And a therapist named Ira Progoth came up with what's called

intensive journaling. Yeah. And like you said, it was in 1960s. In his version, it was basically a notebook, like a three-ring binder, with color-coded sections about, topically arranged, thematically arranged. It could be like, dream, recording your dream, which we'll talk about again a little bit later. It could have been just daily life stuff. It could be very like, hey, write about a big event in your life, and we'll talk a little bit more about trauma journaling later, because that can be very valuable and painful, I imagine. But basically, it's all about like, almost like a meditation and allowing things that were important to you or related to you at different points of your life to come to the forefront of your mind and just sort of write out through the pin onto the

paper or through your fingies onto the keyboard. Right. Yeah. You sit there for a few minutes reflecting on the topic you've decided to focus on for that journal entry. Then you write it, then you read what you just wrote, and then you write your feelings about writing it and then reading it. That's got to be helpful. Got to be. And that's the point of all this.

We're going to get into some pretty deep BS here eventually. But the upshot of it is there's a very, very little chance that it will be in any way harmful and possibly very beneficial. And that could be difficult. Yes. And that doesn't mean harm. Right. And that that alone makes it worth at least giving it a shot. And if it works for you great, it doesn't work for you, then you gave it a try. Yeah. There's another guy named James Pentebaker from Texas, University of Texas Austin. I used to psychologist that did studies on what he called expressive writing, been doing this since the 80s. And he said, you know, where I find or where he found it helpful was when you were you would just start out with like very disjointed sort of raw feelings and things and then transform

that into a story and into a narrative and the process of taking like a difficult experience, maybe just writing down the the eight feelings you about it, and then that gets a little more detailed and more detailed until you've turned it into a story can help you handle that stuff more easily and help you live with it. Yeah, and there's actually studies to back this up. His whole thing is like, you don't need to journal every day. If you do, fine, that's great, but he found that just one 15 to 30 minute session of writing about a difficult or traumatic experience can help relieve not just psychological symptoms, but physiological symptoms as well. And that a lot of studies have found that if you do like three to four 15 to 30 minute

sessions writing about the same experience, it can really help work past trauma that you've been carrying around. It's pretty amazing. Just writing about it. Yeah, some of the things they found in studies, short-term, increase in distress or negative mood, that's what I was talking about, like it may be difficult in the moment, you know, bringing up these bad memories, but it pays off in the long run. Evidence of improvements in depressive systems, long-term, and emotional well-being, benefits to physical health, like lower blood pressure, better lung function, less illness, less doctor visits, better immune system, more antibodies.

Pretty neat. Pretty amazing. Yeah. And they think that it's just by getting this thing out of your working memory essentially. By documenting on paper, you don't have to worry about remembering or thinking about it or ruminating about it anymore. You put it out there. And that that alone can lower your stress levels and your immune system can kick back in to higher gear again. Yeah, and I think he's the guy that really stressed. Like do it, how you do it.

If you want to write it with a pen, fine, you can put it in your phone. And don't worry about like writing well. And don't worry about being fair even like you're doing this for you. You're not doing this for publication. So write about how you really feel, even if it's a very selfish thing in the moment, and trying to really bring up a lot of sensory details and deep emotional, physical sometimes feelings

that you had at the moment of this trauma. And be careful as you're doing it. It's not like a therapy replacement, but ideally to be used in conjunction with therapy. You remember in our meditator now, our mindfulness episode, where we talked about some people who engage in mindfulness activities

like find that they freak out because they accidentally uncovered trauma and they weren't prepared for it. Pen and Baker kind of warns about the same thing. He says that there's a too soon for journaling. It can be that potent and powerful. If it follows too closely after the actual traumatic event, it can be too hard on you and that you should have at least some distance of time.

Probably, for a seriously traumatic event You probably want to do this under the advisement of a therapist Don't necessarily try to do it on yourself. So it's probably not going to harm you But the the potential is there enough that if this is You could probably only be the only judge for yourself. Right. This is so wady that it could break you mentally. You should probably talk to somebody first about how to do it correctly or when to do it. Yeah, totally agree. A gratitude journal is something that I had never really heard of.

Really? Yeah, I never heard of that. I mean, I've heard about, of course, gratitude and thankful when you're ruminating on that stuff, but actually writing it down in a list or a journal is a pretty popular thing that I'm a big dummy for not knowing because they've even done a meta analysis. So that means there's a lot of studies on it. In 2021, Japanese researchers did this analysis and they found that it really helps with stress and depression

if you do it at least like six times. It's said over the course of a study, I'm not sure what time frame that is, but basically like, you know, it can take a lot of forms, noticing generosity that you see, walking around in the world, things that you're just thankful for. It can help lead to you expressing gratitude and thanks to others. And you can also note that, but it's, you know, sort of a version of what's called positive affect journaling, which is basically focusing on positive things and gratitude and ideally that's going to increase your well-being. And it seems like it would.

Yeah, for sure. And they also say, you want to be very detailed. You want to typically focus on people not necessarily things that you're grateful for, although you can focus on that. And that it's much better to focus on a single topic rather than list off five things. Like, I'm grateful for this, this, and this. More things like I'm grateful for this this and this

more like I'm grateful for this and and this is why it's as much more helpful as far as gratitude journals go. I like that. Also going back to the trauma thing just real quick, there was a 2016 study by a researcher named Ji Yong Park. And they found that people who use expressive journaling, which is writing about your experience, getting it out in those 15 to 30 minute sessions, they showed more self-distance after journaling. And self-distance is actually, it's a psychological term, it's a concept where you are more detached emotionally from an event that you experienced and that by being able to distance yourself from it, you're able to cope with it much easier, process it better than when you're super all up in it and it's overwhelming you. And they found that self-dissistant can be helped

along by journaling about the event. Yeah, I mean, it's sort of that time heals wounds things. And I think the idea here is it can help sort of speed up that process, speed up that time. Yeah, and it helps you get things off your chest, it helps you clarify your thinking. And one other thing that it really helps you do is see other people's perspectives. And I imagine you may be able to put stuff down on paper and private that you might not even tell a therapist that you think that you can be completely open to, you know? Yes, ideally that you are sharing that level of openness with your with your journal diary. That's from what I can tell the more you're able to do that,

the healthier it could conceivably be. Although, I don't know if you said it or not, but Penn and Baker says, maybe you don't want to journal every day because that can actually potentially make you ruminate more on negative stuff because you're talking about it. You said that actually. Did I?

There are several truths in your life. There is the truth. You tell that actually. Did I? Uh-huh. Uh, there are several truths in your life. There is the truth. You tell your therapist. There's the truth. You tell your doctor. And then there's only one real truth and that's the truth that you tell yourself probably. Yeah. When no one else knows anything, even the closest people in your life, uh, I think the

truth you tell yourself is probably the truest thing. You can also delude yourself though too. Oh, well, no, no, that's a completely different thing. Oh, sorry, I brought that up. No, you can 100% lie to yourself, but I think that, I don't know, that's just an opinion of mine, you know? Sure. And that's why I think that journaling very privately could be like a really therapeutic

thing. For sure. It seems like, yeah, that's the thing. When I said we were going to wait in the BS BS like there's a lot of people out there who have tried to qualify this, quantify it. HR people who are like maybe we should get all the employees to journal every day. It's like this thing may work so everybody's turned it into a thing that you have to do and if not then you're not you're not trying to achieve your goals and you're not living your best life or whatever. It's just, it's meant to be one of those things

that like if it helps you great, if it doesn't move on, it doesn't have to be this thing that everybody has to do and benefit from in exactly the same way. Yeah, I have a fun, small collection of two to three journal entries from various points of my own nice Where I would say I'm gonna start doing this man because I'd do something like this or a teacher would talk about it and then all right Here we go and a few days in a stop-to-mo. Yeah, I mean, it's so easy to not do anymore. I did have a

I think the longest one I ever kept was for one full Quarter we were in quarter spec then in college. I remember those. I had a lay writing class I took and my play writing teacher had us as part of the class. It was an optional, do what he called a commonplace journal. And that was just not even your thoughts and emotions, just more as a writer might do, like things you notice and things that might inspire you

in this and that, commonplace them. Okay. So I did that for a quarter, but I don't think I have that one. That's my biggest, most robust one, and it's lost to time. Poor guy. There are all kinds of journals that have become popular as far as like, oh, this person

says this is a very good way to do it. The artist's way, a self-help book from 92 by Julia Cameron talked about morning pages. So you just sort of, and this is based on the Jungi and the idea that your ego defense doesn't wake up until 45 minutes after you wake up. Yeah, I looked that up and I don't think that's actually a thing that Jung ever said. Oh, really? Yeah. So did Julia Cameron? I mean, it is a self-help book. Right. Anyway, that's the idea at least that sounds like it may or may not be true. But the whole idea is you do this first thing in the morning, sort of stream of consciousness style to get,

just sort of drain out your brain of like, stuff that might plague you throughout the day later. Yeah, the point isn't to just write anything like inspirational or good or where, just to get it out like you were saying. And that's a good example of what I was talking about with the BS. Like does it have to be based on a youngy and IDN that is exactly 45 minutes is just like hey this works you guys should give it a try Don't try to write anything worthwhile just get out the crud that's gonna plague you for the rest of the day

Why can't people present ideas like that anymore? Yeah, just say do it when you're shweepy because that seems to work. Yeah, exactly Yeah, what do you got to bring young into this? He's like don't bring Jung into this? He's like, don't drag me into this. Just because you use the word ego. We talked about gratitude journals. What are bullet journals? These are what they were created by a digital designer named Rider Carol.

Great digital designer name back in 2013. And they're much more real world focused focused like to do lists, calendars, seems like a life system. Exactly. That's exactly what it is in written form. And so whatever you need to help you like you're trying to keep up with the meals you're eating for the week or the exercise you're doing or the chores you have to do or whatever, the exercise you're doing or the chores you have to do or whatever, you have these different journals all within this kind of bullet journal, these different sections or segments to it that are typically laid out over time a week a month or something like that or by section and people decorate them in very pretty ways.

Well, and it's also can be though, not literally just things I have to get accomplished today, but like go to the store and go to this appointment. But things you want to accomplish is a holistic way. Like today, I'm going to really work on either gratitude or thankfulness or empathy or something like that. Right, here's, I got to check the box next to empathy it. I am, I am, I am, I am, I am, I am, I am, I am, I am, I am, I am, I am, I am, I am, I am, I am, I am, I am, I am, I am, I am, I am, I am, I am, I am, I am, I am, I am, I am, I am, I am, I am, I am, I am, I am, I am, I am, I am, I am, I am, I am, I am, I am, I am, Empathy or something like that right here's I got to check the box next to empathy it. I empathize today check That's a bit slightly cynical dream journals. Yeah, I don't do those either no, but um, so there are formal interpretation

systems of dreams like if your teeth fall out you're worried about your looks or something like that you're worried about your looks or something like that. Right. Those are clearly obviously just totally wrong. But there is a usefulness to dream journals in that it's very much like getting your thoughts out with typical journaling. With dream journals, you're recording the thoughts

that you got out while you were dreaming before they disappear in that 45 minutes before your ego defenses go up. Right. But that's that's kind of the point of dream journal. And you're almost visiting or you're recording these visits to the other parts of your mind that you can't typically access. So you're just jotting down what happened and it can affect your waking life in in ways I read it, a New York Times letter from somebody who suggested doing this and they were like, it makes when I dream about somebody in a certain way, when I see them the next time, I notice those qualities about them.

So like the dreams, logging the dreams affects how they navigate waking life, which sounds pretty neat. I mean, that sounds like the most fun one, just for no other reason than to go back and read about fun weird dreams years later. Exactly. Have you ever woken up? Have you ever been like mad at you and me in a dream and woken up a little bit like, like, you're like a little mad, even though that's totally unfair?

No, not that specific thing, but I have been out of sorts in many different ways from dreams and it takes a little while. Because I mean, think about the same neurochemicals are being released in your brain, whether you're awake or you're asleep while you're experiencing that. And if they happen to still be flooding your brain when you wake up, you're still gonna be feeling that way,

you know? Yeah, Emily and I both had dreams where like, one of us did something to the other, and it's real physical. And you wake up and you know it's unreasonable, and you try to shake it, but you're like, I'm sorry, I'm just a little mad at you for my dream. And then we laugh and talk about how unfair that is. It happens to me

in normal life too, with TV shows. Like, I don't get a commercial break, you know, when you're watching regular TV. Uh-huh. And I'll be like, why am I so like tense right now? We're upset. And I'll realize this because I just watched the kid nap done law and order. And that sensation is carried over into the commercial break. And now I'm suddenly paying attention to it and wondering why I feel that way.

That's fun. We were in New York one time. And similarly, we were leaving kind of finishing up at our table. And the waiter came over and said, hey, you guys are about done right, because someone was waiting to be seated. Like in a really nice way. We were like, yeah, we're getting out of here.

Go ahead and bring him over or whatever. And it was the actor from that TV show The Killing. The woman or the man, Billy Campbell? That didn't sound right. But maybe it is. I thought he was like Swedish or something. There was an original Swedish version of the killing. Is that what I watched? I don't know where those titles. Billy Campbell's the other he is in that show, but I was talking about Joel Kinnaman. Is he the congressman or the city councilman? No, he was, he is Swedish actually Swedish American.

He was the partner. That's Billy Campbell. Well, I don't want to get to involved here because I don't want to give anything away. But, uh, Kinneman was for sure her partner. Okay. All right. I guess I only made it past season two Anyway, he that it was him and it was his TV show and

He had again, I don't want to give me any way, but he had just done He'd been a bad person in that week's episode And I kind of scaled and I was like you I, I was like, I'm so mad at you. And he was like, I'm sorry, bro. He was like, everybody. He said, on the streets this week has been so rough. He was like, I'm so sorry. And I was like, that's really kind of funny, actually. So you might be thinking of Peter Sarsgard. He was in it. No, I mean, I'm thinking about Joe. Okay. so we're talking about the same person. I thought his name was Billy Campbell. Billy Campbell was the city councilman.

Yeah, he's older. He's like in his 60s. Okay. And he played, he was the racketeer. Oh, I didn't know. I never saw that movie. It just looked creepy. Nart Deco.

But, but I mean, I mean, cop partner. Yes, I know what you're talking about. Yeah, Joe Kiddeman was the cop partner. Yes, I know what you're talking about. Yeah, Joe Kidman was the cop partner, right? Okay. Yeah, we're talking about the same person. I just had the name wrong You had the name right Because that what you want to hear is that what you're holding out for here. I'm not holding up for anything You got anything else about journaling or diaries? Nah

Well, I think I speak for a soul when I say that we hope you find that quarter journal. What was it called the What Journal? The Common Place Notebook. Common Place Notebook, what a great name. Yeah. It seems like something that would be stitched together with like fabric and twine, you know. There's like a mushroom on it.

Yeah. Yeah, sure. Chuck said, yes, sure, everybody. That means it's time for a listener mail. I'm gonna call this things that we have recommended. Did I read this? I don't think I did. I'll read it again.

Hey guys, my name is Evan Whitby from Hendersonville and with Carolina. It's kind of a long one, but I'll just say that Evan really loves the show and has mined a lot to him through his life. And one of the biggest ways that it means a lot is the recommendations, movie recommendations that Evan has gotten from us over the years. Sometimes it's a plug or just comes up in conversation, but by this point I trust your taste a lot, so I check most of them out.

And then list a bunch of examples of what we do in the shadows, reservation dogs, Larry Sandershow, Nate Margazzi's stand-up, eyes wide shut just to name a few that I particularly liked. And I just finished watching both seasons of Dicktown, which was John Hodgman's ship. David Riese's ship. And you were right in that it's the perfect link to finish it all in one sitting and as a native North Carolinian who has lived all around the state my whole life. I've had it particularly funny.

Go Wolfpack, I look forward to many more lessons and many more laughs thanks to the whole team. One love, Evan. That's awesome. That is so much better than Cheers, Evan. Thank you for that. I like it. If you want to be like Evan and say, hey, I really like this thing you guys recommended, or conversely, you can say, hey, I really like this thing you guys might not know about, so I want

to recommend it to you. We are always open for both of those. You can send it in an email via one love to Stuff Podcast at iHeartRadio.com. Stuff you should know is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts, my heart radio, visit the iHeartRadio app. Apple podcasts are wherever you're gonna want to hear. In my new podcast, iced tea's daily game, I'll be dropping some daily wisdom and personal insight that I believe is essential to achieving success in business, love, life, hustling, whatever. I'll be coming to you every single week day with a fresh new quote that speaks directly to me,

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