Stuff You Should Know - Did the Dutch trade Manhattan for nutmeg?

Episode Date: May 8, 2012

Today nutmeg is commonplace, but this wasn't always the case. In the 17th century, the Dutch and the British fought a trade war over nutmeg. Join Chuck and Josh as they travel across continents and centuries to trace the story of nutmeg and Manhattan. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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They just have way better names for what they call, like what we would call a jackmove or being robbed. They call civil acid. Be sure to listen to the war on drugs on the iHeart Radio App, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Brought to you by the reinvented 2012 Camry. It's ready, are you? Welcome to Stuff You Should Know from HowStuffWorks.com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's Charles W. Chuck Bryant with his Atlanta Braves hat. How's it going, slugger? Yeah, the Owen 4 Braves.

Oh yeah, the Yankees are doing terribly too. Yeah, that's a great way to start the season. Yeah, but at the same time, it's like Owen 4 out of what, 189? It's not like they don't have time to come back. It's 162, but yeah. No, of course, it's no big deal, but you don't want to start out like that. No, you really don't. But as the GM pointed out in an article in Atlanta Magazine, still a lot of games to play. It's a rebuilding season. They fired somebody, right? Yeah. Oh yeah, he basically said like, if you're a fan, don't know. I hope he didn't say that. Go read it. I'm not kidding. Even if that were true, the GMs don't say that. He said it. He sounds like a straight shooter. Maybe he was drunk when he did this interview. I don't know, but that's how I read it.

And Matt Arnett's in it too. There's a picture of him in front of the grocery. Oh really? Matt. So I guess we should stop talking like we're not being recorded right now. Oh, we're recording? Yeah, we are. Chuck. Yes. This is stuff you should know, as you know. And I propose that we begin in earnest now. So Chuck, back in 1999, there was a guy, an entomologist, who he's not an entomologist, but he did coin a term in an editorial that he wrote for the Journal of Insect Conservation. The guy's name is Michael Samways. And the term he coined is the homogenous scene. Okay. And the homogenous scene is this word that describes basically the sweeping similarity and homogeneity that's come about around the planet since the age of exploration.

It's the reason why you have chili peppers as one of the basis of Thai cooking, even though chili peppers are from Mesoamerica. Tomatoes from Mesoamerica form the basis of Italian cooking. It's the reason why there are black people and white people in the United States. It's the reason why there's Asians in Mexico. It's the reason why the Irish entered a famine because they became too reliant on the potato, which is actually from the Andes. And it's the reason why there's old Navy stores on every continent. Probably, except maybe Antarctica, but I wouldn't be willing to bet too much against that. But the homogenous scene is this age that we're living in now where biologically, like the earthworms in Minnesota, they're really from Europe, but they're destroying

forests in Minnesota. It's all of this coupling together, what a geographer named Alfred Crosby called re-stitching the seams of Pangea, the supercontinent back together once again. And then one of my heroes, Charles C. Mann, it's the basis of his book, the follow-up to 1491 called 1493. It's all about the homogenous scene and the world that Columbus inadvertently created. The big global stew. Thank you. So a lot of people attribute it to Columbus, but you really need to go a little further back and you can place the responsibility for the homogenous scene, the good, the bad, the ugly, the everything at the feet pretty much of one guy, an Ottoman Sultan named Mehmed II, who kind of changed the course of history when he overtook

Constantinople. That was a pretty good intro. You just did like a mini jazz hands-on. They were trembling. Yeah, you like tried to stop yourself. Yeah, age of exploration. It was kicked off by Mehmed II. Yeah, because he basically shut down trade routes through the Middle East. Yeah, the Silk Road, the famous Silk Road, which was huge. Well, yeah, I mean, think about it like Europe got everything from the Middle East or from Asia through India, through Turkey, through the subcontinent. And this guy took control of Constantinople and effectively said, you know what? I'm kind of tired of your crusades. So any Europeans are barred from taking part in this trade. And that was that.

That was huge because then they had to take to the sea. Yeah, but think about it within like 50 years. All of a sudden they were like, okay, well, let's just sail and see what happens. Yeah. And that changed everything. Well, did that kick off the age of exploration? Okay. That that act is what made people say, I'm going to go get in my frigate. Exactly. Yes. And just say, frig it, I'm out of here. Sorry. And the wordplay today is world class. Yes, Josh. So they, and I also found it interesting that it seems like almost every great discovery that happened because of that was in a big accident. Yeah, these dudes didn't know where they were. No, well, Columbus, Cologne, Cristobal Cologne is apparently how he would have,

what he would have answered to. Well, and then later on Hudson was like, oops, I found Manhattan. Yeah. But that's not what I was looking for. Well, they were failing again and again and again. Ultimately, what they were looking for was a passageway to China. Yeah. And they found it in Panama. But even then they were like, still a little too wide, right? And a little too far. Right. But, but yes, it was very accidental. Except Vasco de Gama was one of the few success stories and one of the earliest too. And he kind of cemented the Portuguese control over this because the West Indies, like what we now refer to as like Indonesia, the Indian subcontinent, yeah, Australasia, basically, that was the place where we wanted to get to the Europeans wanted

to get to, but they couldn't do it over land any longer. Right. Well, the Gama sailed down around Africa past the Cape of Good Hope and up to India and came back and said, okay, Portugal owns the world now. And they kind of did as far as being the dominant traders of the of the time at least. For like, for pretty much the whole 16th century. Yeah. And Europe, of course, wouldn't have that. So the Dutch and the English, you know, ponied up and well, ponied up means they paid. They manned up, I guess, and said, you know what, we got to get on the on the scene here because Portugal's kicking her butt. Yeah. In the spice trade. And I looked up the whole spice thing just to get a little more into it because I was like, why were spices such a big deal? Well,

he who controls the spice controls the universe. Well, it was kind of true back then. Spices were a huge deal because one, Europe didn't have these exotic spices because they didn't grow there. They had gruel. They had the garlic, they had onion. Okay. And they had like horseradish. That's about it. So all of a sudden, these exotic spices come come come around and it makes crappy meat taste better. Yeah, it makes spoiled meat taste edible. And other bad foods that have gone bad. Gruel. Yeah, gruel and spice the crap out of it. And it was expensive. So it became like a sign of nobility. So like, if you were entertaining and you were like either noble or wealthy, you would like really turn it on to your guest if you like brought out the spice tray,

right? Like along with the meal that's already spiced, right? And they would just sample different little spices and it was like a really big thing. And then to top it all off, it was served by a captured human being wearing like bright feathers. So you could really show off for your guests. That's true. Spices also improved health. They were used medicinally to treat dozens of maladies. Well, let's get to the the star of this episode. Preserved meats. Not there yet. Oh, oh, sorry. Well, salt. Yeah, that's a huge preservative. That's how we get jerky. Yeah, salt was so valuable. They like hit it in the Tower of London. Oh, yeah. I think they called it the salt tower even for a little while. Not officially. And then peppercorn, evidently, was one of the most valued. It was

like a really huge deal. You have pink peppercorn? Yeah, plus it's not cheap pepper even to this day. No, but they would actually use peppercorn as rent in areas where like they didn't have money. So they would use this currency and like pay peppercorn rent to your landlord. In the background, somebody shouting bring out your dad and you're paying your rent and peppercorn. Exactly. So that's that's a primer on why it's such a big deal to get spices back in the day. Plus also, ultimately, the reason why people were doing everything and anything like Mehmed shut down the Silk Roads in 1453. Columbus set sail in 1492. Yeah. So in less than 40 years, like we're like, oh, okay, we have to figure this out. But I think the big driver of it all was money.

Sure. There was a merchant class that could make money from selling this stuff to the nobility. That's right. There you have it. There you have it. So where were we? Portugal ruling the spice trade? Okay. And then the Dutch are like, we got to put a stop to this. We need to go form a corporation, chartered company. Yeah. One of the worlds first. I'm going to butcher this. It's Dutch man. I mean, that's hard to say. The verring verring the East Indies company. Or the Dutch East India company in English. Yeah. Or the VSC. The VSC was probably we'll call it or if we refer to the Dutch, that's what we're talking about. Yeah. Because they were representative of the Dutch government. It was a government establishing government initially funded company. Right. The Dutch came

about and said, hey, Portugal, you're not the only guys on the map now. And then shortly after that, the English said, what's a map? And the English said, you know what, we're going to form the East India company, which by the way, we should do an episode on just itself. The East India company. And it was brutal. Yeah. Just the crazy stuff that the East India company did. Killing in the name of spice. Yes. And the Dutch did too. Oh, yeah. We'll see. Pretty much everybody did. Your Europeans were brutal. But so the EIC, the East India company or the English and the Dutch suddenly hit the scene and gave Portugal a run for its money and basically rested control away from Portugal and started dividing it between themselves. Yes. That's the scene in the West

Indies. That's right. And then they all said, hey, let's go West and check out what kind of fur is being traded. I'm sorry. That's the scene in the East Indies. Would you say West Indies? Yeah. Yeah. Nice catch. So they, the VOC and the EIC, England and Holland, let's call it. Okay. Or we call them the Dutch. Sure. Or maybe we should just say they're from Amsterdam. Okay. They're all the same. Jerry's laughing. Or let's call the Netherlands. Everyone in Rotterdam is really mad at you right now. Are they? Oh, yeah. Rotterdam's very nice, actually. I would imagine. I think all of the Netherlands are nice. It's lovely. Lovely country. Okay. So they both say, let's go check out the New World because there's got to be some fur there. And let's do it. Let's beat the Portuguese over

there. Let's do it. I think that was on the charter. Yeah. So we can do it. Right. So yeah, now they were competing. They didn't do anything together. It was all competition. There was competition in the East for the Spice Islands. And now there's competition in the West and specifically in the Northeastern, what is now the Northeastern United States. And the whole thing began with, like you were poking fun at Henry Hudson, who tried to look for a Northeast passage to China. For the Dutch, though. That was, I was on his own. He was an English explorer looking for the Northeast. Then the judge said, hey, while you're up there, look for a Northwest passage. Try that one and we'll pay you. Now, here's what I was curious about. Was he like a traitor to his

country for doing this? Or was it just like all bets are off when you're a hired explorer? I think it was, well, Cristobal Cologne was, I think he was Portuguese. No, he was Genoese. He was Italian. And he was exploring for the Spanish when he landed on Hispaniola. So yeah, it was, I think, whoever would pay for your expedition. And yeah, so Henry Hudson, I don't believe I've ever heard him considered a traitor for that. But he basically contracted out with the Dutch, the VOC, and he didn't find that Northwest passage, but he did discover the Hudson River. He did. It wasn't called that until he found it. That's right. Long Island in another place called Manhattan. Yes. And now we get to the crux of our story, because the Dutch are aware

that there's a place called Manhattan, and they want to check it out because it has awesome street food. He did a little trading there initially, and that's how he kind of established it for the Dutch, was by taking part in some commerce. Yeah, because furs were fairly lucrative. There were nothing compared to spices, but they were enough to get into his interest. Furs was nothing compared to peppercorn. Yeah. That's because we were lousy with animals at the time. Yeah, like we didn't know what we were doing with them. Yeah, just kill them all, and the fur is easy to come by. Yeah. Peppercorn, though, doesn't grow here. All right. The war on drugs impacts everyone, whether or not you take drugs. America's public enemy,

number one, is drug abuse. This podcast is going to show you the truth behind the war on drugs. They told me that I would be charged for conspiracy to distribute 2200 pounds of marijuana. Yeah, and they can do that without any drugs on the table. Without any drugs, of course, yes, they can do that. And on the prime example. The war on drugs is the excuse our government uses to get away with absolutely insane stuff. Stuff that'll piss you off. The property is guilty. Exactly. And it starts as guilty. It starts as guilty. The cops, are they just like looting? Are they just like pillaging? They just have way better names for what they call, like what we would call a jack move or being robbed. They call civil asset. Be sure to listen to the war on drugs on the

iHeart radio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast. How's that New Year's resolution coming along? You know, the one you made about paying off your pesky credit card debt and finally starting to save a retirement. Well, you're not alone if you haven't made progress yet. Roughly four in five New Year's resolutions fail within the first month or two. But that doesn't have to be the case for you and your goals. Our podcast, How to Money can help. That's right. We're two best buds who've been at it for more than five years now. And we want to see you achieve your money goals. And it's our goal to provide the information and encouragement you need to do it. We keep the show fresh by answering lists or questions, interviewing

experts and focusing on the relevant financial news that you need to know about our show is chock full of the personal finance knowledge that you need with guidance three times a week. And we talk about debt payoff. If let's say you've had a particularly spend thrift holiday season, we also talk about building up your savings, intelligent investing and growing your income. No matter where you are on your financial journey, How to Money has got your back. Millions of listeners have trusted us to help them achieve their financial goals. Ensure that your resolution turns into ongoing progress. Listen to How to Money on the iHeart Radio App, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. You ready? I'm ready. Okay. So

he claims it for the Dutch. The state's general of the Netherlands set up the Dutch West India Company after this revelation that they have trading partners over there. They started to colonize it. That's right. And it became New Netherlands. Not New Belgium. Not New Amsterdam. Yeah. New Amsterdam is New York. Exactly. New Netherlands is the area around New York. Yeah. Specifically, I think New York, New Jersey, Connecticut, Delaware and parts of Pennsylvania and Rhode Island. Yeah. Like a lot of area. Yeah. So the Dutch West India Company sends a bunch of Dutch people to colonize and start hanging out, kind of making friends with the local Indians. Yeah. The Lenape, Algonquin Lenape tribe. So I also read that there was Delaware,

the Meadowock and the Wapinger were all there or Wapinger. Yeah. We're all in the area as well. Sure. So the Dutch are like hanging out around these people. They're the new guys and they're talking here there. And within five years, the director himself of the VOC, Peter Minuit, shows up. Yeah. And he's basically just coming to check on this newly established colony. And while he's there, one of the things he does is try to establish claim for the Dutch of Manhattan by buying it from the local tribe. Yeah. Well, at first though, the Indians are all like, we don't trade land and air and water. That's for everyone to use. Right. And then the Dutch said, we don't understand that. The Dutch said, have you tried liquor? And that was that true?

I couldn't find. Supposedly. Okay. Supposedly. This is what Jay McGrath says. She's pretty good at history, generally. I just looked at that. I couldn't find the liquor. I couldn't find any other great sources for that. So according to this article, the Dutch said, hey, guys, let's partake in some liquor. And the Indians on the island drank it with them and got really drunk. And that's where the name Manhattan supposedly comes from, which I guess it would be in an Algonquin tongue. Yeah, because that's what everybody spoke up there. But it was, um, man, uh, hatch tenein, hatch tenein, which means the place we all got drunk. Yeah. That's where Manhattan comes from. Supposedly. That's the legend. Well, that's what they say. The Dutch

translated that into Manahatta. And then that eventually became Manhattan. Right. So the Dutch are there. Peter Minowitz there. And he's like, you know what, let's just, let's see what we can do and let's try to buy this. Um, like you said that the Indians at the time, supposedly nowhere in, in the new world, um, understood or believed in the concept of owning land. Yeah. So the idea of an Indian saying, I will seed this land to you, you, you have to also follow that up with the image of him turning around and laughing to his friends. Right. And not only that, apparently Manhattan wasn't, um, inhabited. It was a place where they hunted and fished and kind of hung out sometimes, but apparently no local tribe lived on Manhattan. So, which made the

idea of one of them selling it to them, uh, even funnier. And no one knows what, which group the Dutch, um, bought this from. The only record of this, this transaction ever taking place was a, a letter written by Peter Minowitz, who just mentions offhand, um, the next year that, oh, yeah, we bought Manhattan for a chest of, of stuff worth 60 guilders. Yeah. That's the old rumor. $24 bought Manhattan and that's, you know, been disputed here and there. Um, well, the 60 guilders is what he wrote that he spent for Manhattan. Right. But how much that was worth at the time. Like you said, a lot of people said $24. They've seen a thousand. It wasn't much. Right. Um, I did a little more reading on this too. And it's because I, you know,

of course, the first thing you think is boy, the Native Americans got rooked out of Manhattan and who knew right at the time. But like you said, they didn't even own it. So they sort of pulled a fast one. And in the end, I think most historians think that neither party really fully even understood the terms of the sale. And it wasn't like, oh my gosh, we have these trinkets now. It was, hey, we've got some potential military partners and the Dutch were like, hey, we've got some potential trade partners. Right. So it was a lot more, it meant a lot more than the 60 guilders. Right. And even the trinkets, like you mentioned, that's under dispute as well. They, they, it's all, it's also in addition to the $24, which is estimated in the 19th century is kind of a way to make the

Indians look like idiots. Right. Saying that it was just a box of trinkets makes it sound like you make some sound even dumber. Right. But probably what it was were like axes. Yeah. Metal kettles, scissors, just stuff like the Indians, just technology they didn't have. Yeah, it was cutting in a really big deal. Sure. So the, I guess the idea that the man that the Indians selling Manhattan for $24 is false. At the very least, it's, it's been taken out of context. Agreed. But what we have here, I think what you're saying is that there's two parties, neither of which are in any position to sell or buy this land. Yeah. Who do just that. Yeah. And the sale of Brooklyn actually is a lot better recorded. There's it's a lot better documented from 1636 to 1684 over like 22

treaties, the local tribes sold Manhattan or Brooklyn piece by piece. What amounted to like 12,000 guilders over time. And historians now see that as the Indians kind of figuring out that if you sold this land that you didn't even think you owned to the Europeans. Right. It was a way of staving off your eventual removal. Yeah. And that they were basically doing it. They kind of mastered like paunting the Europeans. So they were on views of land. They weren't the rubes that they were painted to be oftentimes. I think that's the point here. Yeah, I like that. Okay. They said, check out Park Slope. Can you imagine the baby carriages one day? Right. And the young yuppies who will be living here. Yes. Are they yuppies? They call they're still yuppies, if not in name

in practice. Okay. Yeah. So the long story short is that the Dutch now believe that they own Manhattan and New Netherlands in short order, like by the end of the 17th century, they own what's now New York, New Jersey and Connecticut. Right. That's right. At the same time, back east in the East Indies, things are starting to heat up specifically around what I said earlier is the star of this episode. This as far as spices go. Yeah. Nutmeg. Yeah. Nutmeg was very valuable. It tasted yummy when sprinkled on puddings and desserts. And it was an aphrodisiac supposedly. It was a hallucinogenic powder. It's an abortive patient, which means it can cause abortions. Really? So if you're pregnant, you are not supposed to touch nutmeg. Interesting. I didn't know that. Yeah. And during

the Black Plague, they would wear nutmeg around their neck. And if you think that sounds a little hinky, it might have actually kept the fleas away that carried the Black Plague. So it may not have been simply superstition. Right. So they were kind of smart. Plus, again, we get to what really drove people, the markup. Yeah. Big time. Some traders marked it up as much as 6000%. Wow. That's a lot of profit. Yeah. Which would make people go crazy for it, which is what the Dutch did. That's right. And at the time, up until about the mid-19th century, the only place you could find this stuff was in the Banda Islands in Indonesia. A group of islands got this nutmeg, this one island in particular, Paola Run, which they called Run. Yeah. That one was lousy with this. It's one of

the smallest islands of the Banda Islands, but it was, like, just covered in nutmeg. And there's how many, I think, five islands to the Banda? And four were controlled by the Dutch, clearly an outright, and then one was controlled by the British. That's right. And the Dutch landed on the Banda Islands and kicked the Portuguese out. They did their little treaty thing with the locals, which they like to do. That's right. The locals said, okay, thanks for the money. I don't know what you're talking about and proceeded to trade with other people. Well, yeah, they wanted to establish the monopoly. The Dutch did. Yeah. They're saying, like, we want to be the only exporter of nutmeg. Right. You can only sell to us and then here sign this. But the locals had no idea what was going

on. They didn't understand this concept, or they just didn't really care if the Dutch wanted a monopoly or not. Right. So long story short, the Dutch brutalized the Banda natives. Yeah. And slaves carried out raids and massacres of villages, executed chiefs, basically wiped themselves out of the local population that was capable of growing nutmeg. So they had to import colonists from the Netherlands to come grow the nutmeg. That's right. But they had their monopoly. Well, almost the monopoly because the British still had control of run. Yeah. And like you said, even though it was small, it was lousy with nutmeg. It's so crazy that nutmeg was like the reason all this was going on. I know. I've got like four whole nutmeg nuts in my pantry right

now. It's like nothing to me. But can you see my pants? I didn't understand that. It was like, what's that good for? I just have one in my pocket. Gets her to please. It does. All right. So the Dutch. You were saying they didn't quite have a monopoly because the British had to run. Exactly. The British had run. So they would dip the nutmeg in lime, the Dutch would, which would mean it can't grow like if you plant it. Yeah, because think about it. If you're exporting nutmeg, it's the fruit, the mast of the nutmeg tree, which means it's also the seed, which any smart person could take that, put it in the ground in a similar climate and grow nutmeg. And then all of a sudden the Dutch doesn't have that monopoly any longer. So they very ingeniously dipped it

in lime. Right. That was that jerk move. It is a jerk move, but it's a good way to control nutmeg. That's true. But it didn't quite work because somebody decided one of the higher-ups that we need to partner up with England here. Yeah. Instead of trying to like, war them out of business with a nutmeg. Let's partner up. In 1619, they signed a cooperation agreement, but there was a commander of the VOC, Jan Piersen Cohen, who said, screw that and screw your agreement. I'm going to go and I'm going to burn down all the nutmeg trees. Yeah. He seems like a very vindictive kind of guy. Like he wanted the British out. He wanted the Banda Islands just under Dutch control so badly that even after his, the higher-ups said, we're cool with the

British. He was like, no, no, you know what? I'm just going to burn the whole island down. That's right. He was crazy. He was. So fast forward to the second Anglo-Dutch war. The Dutch finally get control of run in 1666. And then right after that, the Dutch and the English said, all right, things are a little out of hand right now. Let's end this war with a treaty. Yeah. Very appropriately named Treaty of Breda. Well, back up a little bit. Before this in 1664, we need to point out what's going on back in Manhattan. England took control of Manhattan pretty much by sailing four ships into the harbor. And because the fur trade wasn't as lucrative as they thought it was going to be, the West India Company from Holland said, you know, we're not so concerned about that area.

So we're not going to fortify it too much. We're not going to send them a lot of ammo. Right. So basically when the English showed up in 1664 and said surrender, they all went, okay. Right. Like, we'll surrender because the Dutch are, you know, motherland kind of forgot about us over here. They don't care about us. Yeah. And so come on. It's yours. And by this time also, they'd form the first brewery, remember? Oh, yeah. Block in Christensen. So they were just getting drunk. Yeah, they're like, come on in. And of course, England was like, sweet. Yeah. So thank you for that, by the way. The Dutch and the English after what was the war? That was the second Anglo-Dutch war. Okay. Second of three, I think. And in the Treaty of Breda, between the Dutch and the English

settled a lot of disputes ended that war. But they had disputes in the West Indies. So this way, the Dutch had all of the, or in the East Indies, had all of the Banda Islands. Yeah. There was a lot of skirmishes between the Dutch and the English in Suriname over cocoa and sugar plantations. Finally, in the Treaty of Breda, which was very much in the Dutch's favor, the English ended up with Manhattan. They said, you just have that. You're already there. And it was kind of, as Mann puts it in 1493, it was kind of a booby prize. Yeah. Like, you know, the English were like, you can keep that. It's all right. And the Dutch were like, no, no, we want you to have it. We're so grateful for the islands and for Suriname. You keep Manhattan.

Yeah. And today, the Olsen twins live there. At least one of them does. Yes. So in the end, England kept Manhattan, which they kind of already had. The Dutch kept Run, which they kind of already had again by that point. But England kind of pulled a fast one by taking lime-free nutmeg and planting it on different islands, like Granada. Who came out on top? England. I would say so. So they sort of ended up trading Manhattan for nutmeg. That's a really, really roundabout way to put it. And then, of course, in 1673, the Dutch retook Manhattan, said, no, no, no, it's ours again. There was a third war, Anglo-Dutch war, but they were also fighting the French at the same time, which really screwed

them. They went bankrupt, basically. And finally, in 1674, the Treaty of Westminster, they finally said, all right, here, officially, once again, you have Manhattan. Man, the Dutch were, like, all over the place, weren't they? Who knew? You. You. You knew. The war on drugs impacts everyone, whether or not you take drugs. America's public enemy number one is drug abuse. This podcast is going to show you the truth behind the war on drugs.

They told me that I would be charged for conspiracy to distribute 2200 pounds of marijuana. Yeah, and they can do that without any drugs on the table. Without any drugs, of course, yes, they can do that. And I'm the prime example of that. The war on drugs is the excuse our government uses to get away with absolutely insane stuff. Stuff that'll piss you off. The property is guilty, exactly. And it starts as guilty. It starts as guilty.

Cops, are they just, like, looting? Are they just, like, pillaging? They just have way better names for what they call, like, what we would call a jackmove, or being robbed. They call civil asset for it. Be sure to listen to the war on drugs on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. How's that New Year's resolution coming along? You know, the one you made about paying off your pesky credit card debt

and finally starting to save your retirement? Well, you're not alone if you haven't made progress yet. Roughly four in five New Year's resolutions fail within the first month or two. But that doesn't have to be the case for you and your goals. Our podcast, How to Money, can help. That's right. We're two best buds who've been at it for more than five years now, and we want to see you achieve your money goals. And it's our goal to provide the information and encouragement you need to do it.

We keep the show fresh by answering list of questions, interviewing experts, and focusing on the relevant financial news that you need to know about. Our show is chock full of the personal finance knowledge that you need with guidance three times a week, and we talk about debt payoff. If, let's say you've had a particularly spend-thrift holiday season, we also talk about building up your savings, intelligent investing, and growing your income. No matter where you are on your financial journey, How to Money's got your back. Millions of listeners have trusted us to help them achieve their financial goals.

Ensure that your resolution turns into ongoing progress. Listen to How to Money on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. That's it. That's all for Nutmeg and Manhattan. I'd like to do more history of New York stuff. I love that. Yeah, it's cool. Great topic. Very cool. You got anything else? If you want to learn more about Nutmeg, you should type that word into the search bar

at howstuffworks.com. You can also type in East India Company, Dutch West Indies Company, all sorts of cool stuff, and it'll bring up all sorts of cool things. Try Manhattan. You'll be pleasantly surprised if you type that into the search bar. It'd probably be a drink. Maybe. Article in there soon. That would pleasantly surprise me. Sure. So I said handy search bar, which means it's time for Listen to Me.

Josh, appropriately enough, this is about Robert De Niro. Talk in New York. The Tribeca area. Hi, guys. I worked in the service industry for about 10 years. This is about tipping, by the way. From salad bars to four-star hotels, and I've had tons and tons of stories, most memorably is the one I had when I served Mr. Robert De Niro and his family. This is about seven years ago. I was acting as doorman at the Fairmont, Washington, DC. Nice place.

De Niro stayed with us for about three nights, and I happened to work every day during his stay. Because I worked the night shift, I had several opportunities to greet him and his lovely wife, and pretty much no one else was around. His wife was very charming and talkative, and would indulge the driver in genuine conversation. This would afford me time to fit in a little small talk with the man himself, and his reactions were classic De Niro. He even shrugged his shoulders when he spoke, the man is a movie. Can you imagine being De Niro, where people are like, dude, that's so De Niro.

He's just like, that's me. Please stop it. Anyways, for some reason, his wife and himself took a liking to me and requested me to assist him in checking out of the room at the end of the stay. He had three beautiful children, all mixed race, like myself, and he had to tend to one of them who was dealing with an eye infection. I managed their luggage in their checkout and proceeded down to the driveway. At the entrance, it was all hands on deck, including the general manager,

all supervisors, and my bell staff. Problem is, on a checkout like this, too many people get in the way of us lackeys receiving any kind of proper gratuity. On top of that, celebrities tend to have what we call a fixer. Someone who acts as a middleman between the hotel and the guest. Because, of course, the guest didn't want to talk to the bell hop. Got someone else to do that. So I'm waiting next to his vehicle, luggage is packed.

I'm not expecting any tip because it's par for the course with this kind of checkout. And I can't complain having had the opportunity to serve someone I admired greatly. At that point, Mr. De Niro walked up to the fixer and I heard him say, are these guys taken care of? Of course, the fixer replies, oh yes, of course, of course, of course. Knowing darn well that wasn't true. That's when De Niro pulls the most classic move ever. He looks at the fixer and says, okay, well, I want to take care of them myself.

I wish I could do it, De Niro. I might even get embarrassed myself though. I'm surprised you can't. Proceeds to hand out $20 bills to all the bell men simply for holding the door open. Then he walks over to me, thanks me for my service, and shakes my hand. My heart is beating like Jimmy Conway. I look Jimmy Conway's boot in Billy Bats' face. I look down and there are $5.20 bills folded up neatly in my palm.

He seriously folded up the bills in his palm and shook my hand like Scorsese had just called action. The only thing I could think was, wow, he really just did that. I basically blacked out after that. And that is from Corey Osborn. And he came to and wrote the email. Pretty cool. That is very cool. I love that, De Niro, taking care of the common man.

Yeah, and Boo on the fixer hiss. Yeah, fix this, buddy. That was a great one. Thanks a lot, Corey. That was a good tipping story. That was maybe the best one we got. I think so. Um, let's see.

What else, Chuck? I got nothing. Can you think of anything for anybody to write in about? If you got any interesting Manhattan history stories. That's a great one. Or Brooklyn. The Brooklyn Historical Society is killing it. You know, our friend Rachel Grundy does literary pub crawls.

That's right, that's right. So seek out the literary pub crawl in South Manhattan. And Rachel and her cohorts will take you around to the pubs. And you'll drink and learn about the famous people who wrote there and drank there. Yes. That's great, Chuck. Sure. So yeah, what Chuck said.

And you can wrap it up in a tweet. 140 characters or less to SYSK podcast. You can join us on Facebook, facebook.com slash stuff you should know. Or you can send us an email, wrap it up, spank it on the bottom, send it to stuffpodcast at discovery.com. For more on this and thousands of other topics, visit howstuffworks.com. Brought to you by the reinvented 2012 Camry. It's ready.

Are you? The War on Drugs is the excuse our government uses to get away with absolutely insane stuff. Stuff that'll piss you off. The cops. Are they just like looting? Are they just like pillaging? They just have way better names for what they call like what we would call a jack move or being robbed. They call civil acid.

Be sure to listen to the War on Drugs on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Langston Kermit. Sometimes I'm on TV. I'm David Boring. I'm probably on TV right now. David and I are going to take a deep dive every week into the most exciting ground breaking and sometimes problematic black conspiracy theories.

We've had amazing past notable guests like Brandon Kyle Goodman, Sam J. Quinta Brunson and so many more. New episodes around every Tuesday. Many episodes out on Thursdays where we answer you, the listeners conspiracy theories. Listen to my mama told me on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcasts.