Stuff You Should Know - D'oh! Operation Flagship

Episode Date: February 13, 2025

Operation Flagship was undertaken at a time when the U.S. Marshals performed their jobs with a lot of flair. What other agency would throw a football party in order to arrest a handful of (mostly) non-violent criminals?See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio. Hey and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh and there's Chuck and Jerry's here too. And this is Stuff You Should Know, the freeze edition. Yeah, you know what the edition this is? This is the law enforcement sometimes thinks they're so cute and clever edition. Right. Man, I can't wait to point out how many cutesy little names and acronyms pop up in this story. And this, and a lesson, if you're a criminal and you ever think something might be shady and it might be a sting operation, just look at any name that they've given you

and read it backwards or see if it spells an acronym that says, like, we nav'd you, buddy, or something like that. That's how cutesy they got, is, then you'll see. I'll just throw that out there and we'll talk about them as they pop up. Yeah, and there's our daily assistants in helping criminals evade capture by law enforcement.

Yeah. Was that what I was doing? I certainly was. All right. Moving on. So we're talking about one specific operation, Operation Flagship, which was conducted by the US Marshals Service back in, I think, 1985. And it's just kind of mind boggling.

Where'd you hear about this? Did somebody write in or did you already know about it, being an NFL fan and a kid? Yeah, you know what, I'm not sure. Now that I think of it, this may have been a listener request and I'm gonna look that up real quick because I hate not shouting people out when that, I'm with you. When that happens. Well, how about I keep talking while you look.

Okay. So the US Marshal Service, they're one of the first American law enforcement agencies. They were founded back in 1789. Dave helped us with this. It's Dave Week, by the way. As Dave put it, in the time of George Washington. So they've been around quite a bit and over the course of this history, like they've done

a lot of different really kind of great stuff. They escorted students into the first segregated schools, black students to segregated schools. They protected them. They enforced prohibition, which I guess, depending on your views on prohibition, it was great or not. Um, they operated the U S census, which seems like they were at the time, just really looking for busy way for the Marshall service. No, just give them a bunch of pencils.

And then, and turn them loose. And then famously Chuck, uh, anytime you hear somebody call like a Wild West law enforcement guy, marshal, they were a US marshal. That was one of the roles they played. They served as the long arm of the law in the Wild West era of American history. Yeah, so they did a lot of things. They found a lot of busy work for them to do over the years.

These days, did you mention witness protection? Not yet. So they did a lot of things, they found a lot of busy work for them to do over the years. These days, did you mention witness protection? Not yet. Yeah, I mean, basically these days they take care of witness, they run the witness security program, aka witness protection. If you see prisoners being transported to court or something, those are marshals doing that. And there are, since 79, they've been in charge of fugitive investigations, which is to say, basically anybody with an outstanding warrant is a fugitive.

You don't have to have like escaped prison. If you're charged with a crime or have been summoned to testify or something like that, and you're, you jump bail, you don't appear in court, if you escape from custody, then you're a fugitive, and the U.S. Marshals are gonna try and find you and either put you back in jail or put you in jail for your very first time. Yeah, and Tommy Lee Jones doesn't care if you're innocent. His job is to get you and bring you back to jail.

No nonsense. I didn't kill my wife. I don't care. That's so great, man. One of the great lines in movie history. So yeah, you can be a fugitive all sorts of ways and regardless of how it is, the US Marshals are out there to get you.

For the most part, when they get you, it's because they've tracked you down. Maybe they got a tip, maybe they just started looking for you and they found that you're actually at your last known address. And they arrest people quite frequently. I think I saw that they rounded up 75,000 fugitives

in 2023 or 24. They arrest a lot of people. But for some reason, during the early to mid-80s, the US Marshal Service went on what can only be described as a cutesy streak. Yeah. They said, hey guys, let's have a little fun with this. They clearly did. I mean, like these things, this whole thing was hatched hours into an office Christmas

party in 1979. That's the only explanation for this. Yeah, for sure. hatched hours into an office Christmas party in 1979. That's the only explanation for this. Yeah, for sure. We'll start with our first QT acronym. In 1981, they launched a program called the Fugitive Investigative Strike Team, AKA FIST, because they're going to use their fist to get you.

Right up your bum. That's right. And their goal was to do fugitive investigations, not just like one person at a time, but like, let's see if we can get a lot of these people at one time, high concentrations of these fugitives, and round them up and bring them in. And how are we going to do that?

We're going to do that with these really kind of wacky sting operations, which, you know, it's not like they were just out to have fun. There's a lot of merit to doing something this way. They're generally cheaper than just one at a time going after somebody resource-wise. They're safer because usually when you

launch something like this, they're going to be unaware, they're not going to have a weapon on them like they might behind the door of their own home that they barely crack open. So it's cheaper, it's generally a little safer. We're going to talk about a few examples of these before we get to flagship. One very successful one was a program called Mr. Zip. And this is just very lo-fi. They would have marshals dressed up as US mail carriers, and they would just knock on your door and say, I got a package for Mr. Homer Simpson. And they would produce their ID and sign their name, and they would say, thank you, you're

under arrest. Yeah. It is you. I think that was actually in the fugitive too. Yeah, that sounds familiar. Yeah, I mean, it's been in a lot of different movies but- Like Here Are Your Roses, that kind of thing? Exactly. Yeah.

So I don't know if this is actually the origin of it or not, but it certainly seems to be because I don't get the impression that they did a lot of this stuff before this era. Yeah, what about Puno Airlines? That was pretty fun. I love this one. So Puno means fist in Spanish. Uh?

Right, exactly. I'm sorry, it's just, it's also like, it's almost like they wanted people to figure it out. Yes, that is inherently the problem behind this whole thing, is a lot of this, I was about to say steps, but I'm just gonna say missteps that happen to work out in their favor.

We're just basically like, hey criminals, do you speak Spanish? Do you think anybody would ever name their airline Fist Airline? Well, they wanna give you a free weekend to the Bahamas. That's right. That was the Puno's Airlines thing. And I love it.

Like I think it's cool like in retrospect, but when you stop and actually think of it from a law enforcement perspective, you just end up pinching the bridge of your nose. But it actually worked. Yeah, it did. They mailed these fake letters saying they had won that trip plus 350 bucks in spending money.

14 fugitives fell for it, and they send a limo to your house. It's like a big sweepstakes, basically. And most of them were arrested in the limo, like the limo driver is a cop, and they just pull over and say you're under arrest. One guy did make it to the airport at Miami International, and they did have a fake Punio Airlines ticket counter.

So they saw it through, I'll give them that much. Yeah, for sure. I think it was right next to Air Haiti. Right. No, for real. Oh, was it? Okay. I never know when you're joking anymore, so.

So I know, I'm sorry. I've really messed with reality. That was 1985. There was another one the year before, Fist 7. Yeah. Right right but they would spell it with Roman numerals to make it super cool so funny because I think this is yeah this is the era of the Rocky sequels yeah Roman numerals were everywhere yeah that one was enormous it was a multi-state multi-agency sting

operation there were 113 marshals involved, five ATF agents, 105 police officers, all from across eight different states. And it involved a bunch of different scams that really altogether were part of this one big sweep that was just coordinated by the Marshal service. There was one pretty straightforward in Buffalo where they wrote letters to fugitives and said, hey, you don't know this, but you won $10,000 in the lottery. You know that lottery you may or may not have ever played? Well, you won $10,000, but we can't give you the money

unless you come to the lotto office and show us your ID and then you can claim your prize. That's right. That was one of them. One was a job scam. It was called the Prior Offenders Employment Opportunity Program, where they would say like, hey, you're a prior offender. Like I know it's hard for you to get a job. We can get you a job, 15 bucks an hour. Just call our number and tell us who you are and where you are, and we'll set you right up. That one actually seems like the most effective one

because it almost has like a scam sense to it. Like outwardly, like overtly. It may be the meanest too. I think so too, I thought the same thing. Because you might think it's mean to say you've won tickets to the Bahamas, but it's really mean for someone to be like, I really wanna start my life over and get a regular job.

Right. It's all called this number. Yeah. Well, have we got an opportunity for you. Yeah. I agree with you. In New York part of Fist7, their sting was called the Brooklyn Bridge Delivery Service.

Not to be confused with New York's finest taxi service, but it's basically the same thing. Um, their motto was, don't mess with the rest, come to the best. And it was essentially the same thing as, uh, Mr. Zip, as far as the scam goes, but they would just leave, um, like, we missed you slips on their door saying, you have a package that you need to come pick up.

And, um, there was a guy involved in this, uh, I can't remember his name, but, oh, Robert Leshhorn. Uh, he was one of the chief or deputy chief marshals and he, he, this was his scam. And so part of it was the, the criminal would call to, call to find out where to pick up their package, and depending on what they were wanted for, he would tailor what was supposedly in the package. So he said, like, if you were wanted for robbery or theft or something, it would be like a

brand new stereo or something. So he would tailor it, which made sense, and apparently that worked to a certain extent. But all of these, all of them pale in comparison to the one that they ran in Hartford, Connecticut. Oh man, I thought you were going on the flagship. I was like, are you not gonna mention this one? Not a chance.

As a matter of fact, we should probably just stop after this one, because no scam in the history of law enforcement has ever been greater than this one. Yeah, this is part of Fist 7 in Hartford, Connecticut. This was, hey, let's do a fake TV station giveaway where you can win two tickets to a concert plus dinner and a limo ride.

And hey, it's 1984. You're gonna see Van Halen on their big, huge rock tour. No, no, no. Boy George. And Culture Club. You have won tickets to see Culture Club in 1984, and it worked. I don't know why they chose,

I don't know if it was geographical, if Boy George was just like, sure, I'll take part in this, he probably didn't know anything about it. Or if they did some research, did a little re and found out that these dudes love culture club, I don't know, I have no idea,

but that's who it was. I saw that part of the package that they won was also a photo shoot, I saw that in a couple of places. With the culture club? Yeah, and then one of the marshals who headed up the Hartford, Connecticut, Boy George scam, And then one of the marshals who headed up the Hartford, Connecticut Boy George scam said, it was just like one of the other ones where when you went to get picked up by this limo,

right when you got in the limo, they arrested you. He said all these people that they got with this were all dressed up to go to the Culture Club concert. Oh God. Can you imagine what they looked like when they arrived in jail? Like those feathers that you clipped to your ear. Yeah, yeah.

Like glitter war paint, like on your cheeks, like the whole, the whole shebang. I wonder if they said, bad karma chameleon for you, my friend. I love all the extras too. It wasn't just like tickets to a concert. It was always like and dinner and a photo shoot. Like I guess they really thought they needed to make it

something someone couldn't refuse, I guess. How can you refuse a photo shoot with Boy George? Yeah, but we laugh. Fist 7 netted 3,300 arrests and is the largest fugitive roundup in American history still to this day. Yeah, 3,200 of them came from the Boy George scheme. Right. That feels like we have to take a break right there, right? I think we would be violating some sort of unwritten rule

if we didn't right now. All right, we're gonna come back and talk about one that netted fewer arrests, but was definitely fun in Operation Flagship right after this. This is David Eagleman, host of the Science Podcast, Inner Cosmos. For Valentine's Day, we're diving into the question, what is love from the brain's point of view?

What does love have to do with how you were raised, or the symmetry of someone's face, or the smell of their underarms? Why does the character of love change throughout our lives? Why is heartbreak like drug withdrawal? And what does any of this have to do with sweaty t-shirts or rom-coms or monogamous animals and the future of love and AI? Join me for this week's Inner Cosmos for a deep dive into the neurobiology of love.

Listen to Inner Cosmos with David Eagleman on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. ["I'm a Man"] Okay, Chuck, so we're back, and we're finally talking about the titular scam operation flagship. That's right.

How do you like that? That's pretty good. I love the word titular. Thank you. It's arousing. I can't think of another word for it, but let's just say arousing. Yeah. Yeah.

This was thought up. It was a brainchild of a guy named Howard Safir. He was head of enforcement operations at the time. Fist seven was a big, big success. And he's like, what at the Christmas party, he's a little toasty, and said, what has everybody got? He had too much of grandma's Christmas breath. And he said, what's everyone got? I need some fun ideas. And Robert Leshorn, the guy, the Brooklyn Bridge Delivery Service guy, still basking in the glow of those tailor-made packages to the criminals, he apparently came up with this idea,

and it was football tickets. One of the hottest tickets in football at the time, in 1985, was there at RFK Stadium for what was then the Washington Redskins, now the Washington Commander, since the name changed. But then the Washington Redskins, now the Washington commanders since the name change. But they were the Redskins then, they had won the Super Bowl, beat the Dolphins in 83, lost to the Raiders in the Super Bowl in 84, in 85.

Expectations were high. Season tickets, 25 year waiting list for season tickets. Every game is sold out at RFK. And so offering up free tickets to criminals in the DC area seemed like a no-brainer. Yeah, this particular game versus the Bengals on December 15th, 1985, it was to whoever won was going to win a wild card playoff berth,

which has significance. So it was an important game. Oh, I feel like, I don't know, you should get a little gold star for your football knowledge right there. Thank you. Also, not to mention too, I mean, even looking back, you're like, wow, these guys were great. But at the time, these two were at the peak of their careers.

It was Theismann versus Assiassin as far as the quarterbacks went. Theismann. Is it was Theismann versus Esiason as far as the quarterbacks went. Theismann. Is it really Theismann? Yeah, the story goes it was Joe Theismann and in college he changed it to Theismann to rhyme with Heismann. Oh really?

That's what they say. That's smart, did he win the Heismann? I mean the Heismann? Oh, you know, I'm actually not sure if he did or not, but his leg got snapped on national TV. I was watching that game. It was horrific. Wasn't that a Super Bowl? No, no, no, no, it wasn't a Super Bowl.

Yeah, that was horrific. I mean, it was a compound fracture that came out of his thigh, right? I don't think it was his thigh. I think it was a lower leg. But I just, I remember it was, that was the first horrific injury that I saw on TV that even though I didn't know it at the time, activated my mirror neurons in a way that was quite striking. One of the ones that got me,

there was a Miami Hurricanes player in early 2000s. And he was like running down the sideline and somebody dove to knock him out of, well, out of... Bounce. Bounce. And they got him right in his knee. And his knee turned into like, his whole leg, but the apex was his knee, just turned into a rubber band that went really far to the left

And it's always so disturbing it was they kept showing like this was this is the the zeitgeist at the time They showed that injury in slow motion 15 times. Yeah, they were laying on the field. They didn't cut to anything They just kept showing it over and over like it was a new volume of faces of death or something like that They just kept showing it over and over, like it was a new volume of Faces of Death or something like that. Yeah, they did that for, up until not too, too long ago, and then they stopped. Anytime there's a serious injury like that, they're like, we're not, you know,

we don't show the replays of these things anymore, but yeah. We probably shouldn't feed the bloodlust. Yeah, exactly. But yeah, so anyway, that was, it's forever burned into my brain, that image. And I don't think he broke anything. He just apparently has like the most flexible, resilient leg of anybody's.

So he was fine? Yeah. I don't know if he was fine. I don't remember that. I just remember like, I don't think he was like, anything broke. It just went, brrrrrooop. Oh, was that old rubber knee Richards?

Yeah. yeah. But ironically, I think he had the nickname before that because he could play the rubber bands on his knee. This has gotten so off the rails. Oh yeah, we're talking about the cops. Yeah, that's right. All right, so we're back to Robert Leshorn. He's the one that came up with this idea

to give away these tickets. He said, here's what we'll do. We'll create a fake TV station, like a rock music TV station, like a local MTV basically, WROC video. And that's going to head up this whole thing. And this is where they get cued again. The prize letters that they sent out were signed by station manager IM Detnaw Detnaw. If you spell that backwards, it is I am wanted. Get it?

Yeah. And then the guy who they said you had to call in or whatever, the business manager that took the phone call, his name was Marcus Cran. C-R-A-N spelled backwards as NARC. No. No. Yes. And supposedly, and I did not verify this, but there was one source that said the whole music when you called was I Fought the Law and the Law Won by Bobby Fuller.

Yeah. And I was like, come on. See, like, really? Right. So even if, even taking that one out, it is 100% confirmed that they signed it, I am wanted backwards, I am Dettinaw. The crayon thing, is that pretty much 100%? Oh yeah, I mean, it's in the NFL Films documentary,

you see the guy typing that name in a computer. Yeah, so like, this is like, these are the things that they're doing to just make it like a whole tee hee hee thing, right? To where, if you, again, if you step back, no reason, but to amuse themselves. Like there's no reason, as we'll see, I'm sure part of the reason also is for the media blitz

that they knew was coming after they pulled this off. But not only is there really no reason for it, you're actually sacrificing potential captures because there's people. Yeah, you're tempting fate. Some of these people have wives. All you had to do was show your wife that letter and say, it says wanted backwards, you know.

Hey, you dummy. Yeah, how many of these people fell through the dragnet because they saw that Detnaw is wanted backwards and they're like, I think this is not legitimate. Yeah, yeah. They mailed out 3,000 of these letters to fugitives for a total of 5,117 outstanding warrants between those 3,000.

Said you won this thing, plus a grand prize drawing for Super Bowl tickets that year. The flagship international sports television was the fake station, FIST. So they did it again. About half the letters came back returned to sender. The others again were told to call Marcus Cran to confirm their attendance. And a few of the people that called in were like, wait a minute, this is the cops. But out of the 3,000, it's not very many, apparently about 160 people RSVP'd,

which would still be a pretty good take, I guess. And they said, all right, come on down to the Washington Convention Center at 9 a.m. on game day. We're gonna have a big brunch and a big party and then shuttle you over to the game. Yes. And I thought something you mentioned is worth emphasizing that being entered in a grand prize drawing

for tickets to Super Bowl XX in New Orleans. That actually struck me as a really nice touch because now you've moved the focus a little further out and you're diluting the focus that's being paid to this most immediate thing. So they're thinking about something else as well. Really, I thought that really was a good touch. Yeah, I agree. So to get prepared for this whole thing,

they held three different dress rehearsals. That's dedicated for sure, because this was a big production, and it was smart that they held three different dress rehearsals, because again, there's a lot of moving parts. There's a ton of different cops. I think 166 different agents were involved.

They were all cops. Everyone there was a cop. Like the bus boy was a cop. The person serving your drink was a cop. Yeah, the janitors were cops. Everybody was cops. Like when you walked into the Washington Convention Center that day, um, there was

no one who wasn't a cop, a wanted fugitive or the plus one of the wanted fugitive exactly had the haplessness of being brought along to this whole show. So, um, so they, they rehearsed it many, many times. And one of the things I saw of these 166 law enforcement agents that were part of this, a lot of them were brought in from out of state because they didn't want to risk some of these fugitives from recognizing the marshals who, say,

were in the courtroom with them when they were first brought to trial or had escorted them from jail to prison before they escaped or something like that. So they brought in a lot of ringers from around the country. So there was a lot of cops working from a lot of different offices all for this one huge scam operation flagship. Yeah, they had to shave a lot of about half of their mustaches.

Yeah, if you watch, I mean, you can see this whole thing. There's a it's only like 12 minutes long, an NFL film's documentary on this, on YouTube or wherever. And you can watch the whole thing play out. It's incredible. But they look, it looks like a room staffed with 166 cops dressed up as different things. Yeah. I made it through up to, I think, minute three.

I was like, I cannot watch law enforcement try to play it tongue in cheek. It's just, I think, minute three. I was like, I cannot watch law enforcement try to play it tongue-in-cheek. It's just, I can't do it. Yeah, even the cheerleaders, who were not dressed as cheerleaders, they were dressed in tuxedos. Like everyone there was wearing a tux, which was hysterical.

Because, you know, it was 1985, that's the epitome of class. But they were all cops. And one of the women that was interviewed, she was like, I didn't want to do a cheerleader. She was like, I was in this, I was a US Marshal. I was rough and tumble and I wanted to throw some guys on the ground and put the cuffs on them. But they were like, no, we need you to be a cheerleader. And you're actually the first line of defense because what they did was they hugged these guys upon greeting like hey we're cheerleaders hug hug hug and they're sort of patting them down and feeling for weapons which is amazing.

What was that? There was some movie where they do that to great comedic effect. Oh really? Yeah I can't remember but they're they're like hugging people while patting them down but like just clearly patting them down. Man this is gonna drive me crazy. You'll think of it later. Or somebody will email in, but at least one person does. Yeah. So yeah, like we said, everybody there who was in this building was a cop,

including the San Diego chicken was armed, was an armed cop. That just goes to show you how big the San Diego chicken was in the early to mid 80s, that they were like how big the San Diego chicken was in the early to mid-80s, that they were like, bring the San Diego chicken in for this Washington, Cincinnati football game on the other side of the country. Make sure the San Diego chicken's there, just to legitimize things.

Yeah, because that was, the chicken was for the Padres, not the Chargers even at the time. The only explanation I saw in the video was, they said something about Santa Claus was gonna be there. the Chargers even at the time. The only explanation I saw in the video was they said something about Santa Claus was gonna be there and I don't know why this is the part that has no explanation he said oh we were like we can't have Santa Claus so let's get the San Diego chicken and I was like he said that as if that was the most reasonable statement he could make. Really that's hilarious. It's very funny.

That is that shows a little heart. Yeah, for sure. I should also say I poked fun at law enforcement trying to be funny. So I looked up to see if there's any cops turned comedians and there are. Oh sure. I bet there are. And I bet that's their whole act. I don't know if it is or not, but I can just tell you to go out and check these guys out. There's Kevin Jordan, Chad Ridgely, who went on to be a groundling, June Perry,

and Alfie Moore. And I defy you to find the one Brit out of those. Yeah, I bet it's not Alfie. All right. So I'm a Bobby, right? Wow. That was a great Alfie Moore impression. He's the kind of guy that talks like that, I think.

Anyway, I just wanted to toss that out there because. Very nice. Thanks. Leshhorn, as for his part, he's in the video, he's saying like, nobody can act like a copier, we gotta smile. And he says in this, in the NFL film, saying he goes, I know we're not used to smiling at bandits,

but today we need to. I was like, bandits? What is happening in 1985? That's right. Yeah, he said, no one can act like a cop. Kill them with smiles. Right, yeah, not with a planted gun. Right, right. Oh my gosh.

So like I said, there's a lot of moving parts in a sting where you're trying to nab 160 or so criminals all at once. Again, they rehearsed it three different times, but there's still tons of X-factors that can crop up that you just can't plan for. And one of the reasons why they were really kind of on edge is some of these criminals who they'd invited were pretty hardcore.

There were like armed robbers, rapists. There was one murderer in particular who had escaped from prison. He and two other guys had dressed up as security, or not security guards, prison guards. And from what I was reading, they have no idea where they got these prison guard uniforms, but they managed to escape.

The other two guys got caught. The other guy, Charles Watkins, again, who was in on murder, he had become a fugitive and was wanted as a top 10 fugitive in the DC area. So he was a big fish that they were trying to reel in. But at the same time, this guy's a murderer on the run. You have no idea what he's going to do. So they really had to kind of keep it tight as much as possible.

I say that before we get to the actual day, December 15th, 1985, we take another break. All right, let's do it. ["The Star-Spangled Banner"] This is David Eagleman, host of the science podcast, Inner Cosmos. For Valentine's Day, we're diving into the question, what is love from the brain's point of view? What does love have to do with how you were raised or the symmetry of someone's face or

the smell of their underarms? Why does the character of love change throughout our lives? Why is heartbreak like drug withdrawal? And what does any of this have to do with sweaty t-shirts or rom-coms or monogamous animals and the future of love and AI? Join me for this week's Inner Cosmos for a deep dive into the neurobiology of love. Listen to Inner Cosmos with David Eagleman on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. All righty. we are back.

It is not Christmas, but it certainly feels like it in 1985. It's December 15th. The Washington Convention Center is decked out. There's a big TV playing highlights of the Redskin season thus far. There's music playing. Everyone's in those tuxes. They got red and gold balloons they're handing out. It's really fun to watch this thing play out.

You've got these cheerleaders hugging and patting these guys down. One guy is like leaning in trying to kiss one of the women and she's just like pulling her face away. Oh yeah? And still has her armor on. In fact, she actually, Stacia Hilton, she was the US Marshal, the cheerleader that they interviewed or fake cheerleader. And later on, she had gotten out and was brought back into the service as an appointment as director of US Marshal service by President Obama.

Yeah. Pretty cool. But so for this day, she's a Redskins cheerleader. Yeah, exactly. So what they would do is the cheerleaders would hug you as you were coming in, would not accept kisses it turns out, but they would hug you, pat you down, although you weren't supposed to know that you were being patted down, they would direct you toward a table. She's a good hugger. Right, exactly, very thorough. supposed to know that you were being padded down. They would direct you toward a table. She's a good hugger. Right. Exactly.

Very thorough. Um, so they would, they would pour you to this table where you would check in and to claim your prize, to make sure you were you, you had to show positive ID. And then when they, when they verified that you were on the list, meaning that you were a wanted fugitive who just showed up to claim your two free tickets to the Washington Redskins football game, they would give you a name tag, and the name tag would say, confirmed winner.

And then if you were a dangerous criminal, they would give you a name tag that said, double winner. And they could not find anywhere how they would explain why somebody was a double winner and not just a confirmed winner. Like, hey, what does that mean? Right, exactly, like why me? I have no idea what they said.

Surely they had to say something, but I could not find it. It's lost to history. He said, you're dangerously close to winning the Super Bowl tickets too. That was great. That's how they do it in the movie at least. So one person came that was not expected, was an attorney from a local TV station

that had the local broadcast rights to the games. He heard about this flagship international sports television, AKA Thist, and he was like, wait a minute, they can't do this. I'm gonna go give them a piece of my mind. Exactly, he shows up with a cease and desist letter, and the cops got him out of there. They were like, here, why don't you go have a talk

with these two cheerleaders? They're like, buddy, you're gonna blow our cover here. Yeah, they shot him in the leg. Yeah, he hobbled out of there. No, they took him outside. They had to keep it under wraps. So, okay. You want to talk about unexpected guests?

Sure. Do you want to know the definition of a scumbag? Sure. A fugitive who gets caught up in the dragnet of a scam carried out by the US Marshal Service in 1985 and shows up without bothering the RSVP. There were 15 of them. Oh, that's funny. They just, they just came.

Yep. They just showed up. Didn't even bother the RSVP. It just got under my skin when I saw that. This is bad manners. For sure. So there was a decent amount of people in this convention center. I mean, a hundred and something, a hundred fifty cops, I think, a hundred and sixty,

a little over one cop to one fugitive. And then most of these fugitives had a plus one, if not all of them. So there is hundreds of people in this convention center. And like you said, it was a big party atmosphere, but right under the surface, there's a bunch of people with guns ready to take you to jail. But the problem is you can't just round everybody up all at once, right?

No. So what they did was pretty clever. They would take 15 to 20 winners at a time to one of the separate conference rooms in this convention center, which really, it made me nostalgic, Chuck, because we played a show or two in the conference room of a convention center, you know? Yeah.

Australia loves this. Australia, yeah, yeah, yeah. And they would sit them down and they would present them with some, I guess, spiel to start as they shut the doors and everybody was settling into their chairs. Yeah, this is Louis McKinney, he's on a stage. And then again, this is just like, hey, this is the party room where you're going to get your actual tickets. And he's the MC. He's

the master of ceremonies. He's wearing a top hat, a literal black top hat. And he doesn't just go up there and say, you're all under arrest. He settles everyone down. He said he wanted everyone to kind of get settled in and calm. So he's just doing a bit. He's doing stage work about how excited everyone is and getting everyone like pumped up. And then, and you can literally watch this happen. He says, on behalf of Flagship International, we have a big surprise for you this morning. Everybody's under arrest.

And you see behind the doors, you see all these like SWAT cops. It's their version of the SWAT, their SOG, Special Operations Group. That doesn't spell anything clever. They're like, have literal shotguns and they're just like, huh, huh. They're right on the door. They're like, hup, hup, hup, hup. Yeah, exactly. Hup, hup, hup.

That's right. They rappel in through the windows, you know, break through the windows. No, they just, they they literally just kick in the door and go running in with shotguns. And you see these guys that, about a third of them immediately put their hands on their heads as they were being directed to and get on the ground.

And about a third of them are like, what's happening here? Is this part of the prize? Yeah, they didn't know what was going on, but soon enough they had them faced down on the floor. Yeah, sometimes violently. Oh yeah, yeah, 15 people at a time, then escorting them out a different door

and just keep doing that over and over until they got everybody. I have to say something really quick while I was researching this. I had a great little brush with coincidence that I was reading, I got to that part where McKinney says everybody's under arrest. And I just happened to be listening

to the Beach Boys Smile album at the time. It's not something I listen to a lot. I just happened to decide to listen to that while I was researching this. And within seconds of reading that part, it reaches the part in the Beach Boys album where they say, you're under arrest. Wow.

And that it's worth, I mean, that's something, right? I mean, that's not your everyday coincidence. No, I love stuff like that. I do too. So anyway, back to the story. Dave, like I said, helped us with this and he wondered something that I did as well. What happened to all the guests who are, like the crowd of plus ones are getting left behind in larger and larger droves as this party room is like, you know, set and reset and people get taken out of the back door to jail? Yeah.

And no one knows. I mean, no, at least no one ever covered what happened. They just- Yeah, I mean, I imagine it was, I've got some bad news and some more bad news. Right. Like, there is no good news. It's like your friend has been arrested and you're also not going to this football game.

And you also have to find your way home somehow. Exactly. Surely they gave him a ride home at least. Oh, I don't know about that. I don't know about that. I mean, I was laughing about they're their victims, but they really are. I mean, what a bummer. For sure. Especially those wives that found out

that their husbands didn't let them read the letter. Right. From IM Dettinol. And didn't want to go to the game to begin with. Right. Yeah. Oh, my God. There are definitely plus ones like that.

Yeah. Oh, man. So when this whole thing was pulled off, the reason why the NFL films, little mini documentaries so thorough, is the media was there. And it would make sense the media was there because this is supposed to be some big deal celebration.

So you see people who are like fugitives about to be arrested coming into the convention center like party, like into the cameras yeah that are really like there to film their arrest but they think they're there to film this big celebration because they won these tickets the LA Times was there CBS News was there Washington Post was there they were like journalists were allowed to go basically everywhere they were allowed to interview all of the all of the higher-ups conducting this thing I guess they were allowed to go basically everywhere. They were allowed to interview all of the higher ups

conducting this thing. I guess they were just required to basically play it straight and pretend like they didn't know what was going on. But as a result of this direct involvement of the media, there was a huge national celebration for how great the US Marshal Service was and how well they pulled off this amazing sting with not a single shot fired

and aside from violently throwing some of these people to the floor, totally nonviolent roundup of 100 plus perps. Yeah, I mean that's the, that's why you do it like this. For the safety and for the money savings, or the efficiency rather, I guess, financially. But the PR aspect of this should not be overlooked. They wanted them to film this, they wanted them to know all the cutesy stuff.

So one day, NFL Films would release a mini-doc and future podcasters would talk about it and sort of make fun of it, but also bring them, you know, some attention. So the PR part of it was a very purposeful big deal. The guy, I've seen lots of different numbers bandied about by how many people they actually got. I think 144 arrests is what Dave saw, but in the documentary, the guy whose brainchild it was said it was 101. Really? But if you do the math on 101 arrests, it cost them $22,100 to pull this off.

That breaks down to just $218 if they got 101 arrests. And the average cost of just a per fugitive cost of nabbing a single fugitive was about almost $1,300. So that's a big, efficient haul if you really look at it that way. the per fugitive cost of nabbing a single fugitive was about almost 1300 bucks. So that's a big efficient haul if you really look at it that way. Yeah, for sure. I mean, it's super efficient. And again, not a single shot fired.

And don't forget, they nabbed Charles Watkins, the big fish they were trying to reel in, the murderer who had escaped from prison dressed as a prison guard, which really, if you're gonna escape from prison, that's a real black eye to that particular prison, dressing up as one of their own guards and escaping. So it was a big deal that they caught this guy. And Stanley Morris, who was the head of the Marshall Service

at the time, was quoted in the LA Times saying, it's a safe, clean, and creative way to get these people off the streets. There's no safer way to make an arrest than away from the home environment. and creative way to get these people off the streets. There's no safer way to make an arrest than away from the home environment. Yeah, I mean, he's probably right. As far as Charles Watkins goes,

and Dave got some of this, by the way, he wanted to shout out the podcast, Criminal. Huge shout out. Yeah, because they covered this, and I think Dave listened to that and got a couple of these things in the end here from there. Yeah, it was a December 2024 episode. So what I'm guessing is that the listener wrote in after hearing the criminal episode.

Maybe. Said, I've got a great idea for your episode. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so go check that out for criminals point of view. I'm sure it's pretty great because it's a great podcast. But, um, apparently there was a producer from CBS News named Alan Goldberg who went back at the footage and was like, I think he just thought some of this stuff was a little fishier than it was made out to be as some big huge success. And he saw footage on there of Charles Watkins, a 50 year old man, saying like, you got the wrong guy, you got the wrong guy. And it turns out they got the wrong guy.

They got Charles Watkins, Sr. Charles Watkins, the murderer that was the felon, or rather fugitive and felon, was his son. He was 20 years old. They got the wrong person. The big fish was the wrong fish. Yeah, according to Criminal, like, he finally was able to convince them by showing, like, some ID and some other, like, identification, saying, like, I'm not the guy you're looking for.

You're looking for my son. Um, and huge, again, hat tip to Criminal, they did some serious digging. Like, I was listening to it, and then Alan Goldberg, who is a huge source for this, they're the ones that he talked to. This is not like all over the place. Like they found this guy and managed to just completely

turn all of the coverage of Operation Flagship. Still today, when you read contemporary stuff about Operation Flagship, it is unquestioningly written about as just this perfect success. Yeah, yeah. They found this guy who was like, this is not actually how it went at all.

There's actually, in addition to getting the wrong Charles Watkins, the other big fish they were trying to get, Lloyd Golden. He was a top Ted wanted fugitive for armed robbery. And this Alan Goldberg, you know, God bless him for his journalist streak. He dug into Lloyd golden and found that he was wanted for selling some drugs, not armed robbery. He wasn't on any kind of top 10 list. So, um, that's bad enough.

But when you really start digging into it, you're like, well, this is not only a waste of money, it turns out, even though it was super efficient, it's actually, um, legal, but pretty unethical considering who they actually did nab in of money it turns out even though it was super efficient. It's actually legal but pretty unethical considering who they actually did nab in this dragnet. Yeah I mean it was mainly misdemeanor offenders, a lot of parole violations, there were six traffic offenses in there. Okay and now remember a lot of these people were thrown to the ground regardless of their of what they were wanted for they were a fug of these people were thrown to the ground, regardless of what they

were wanted for. They were a fugitive, and they were thrown to the ground violently in some cases for traffic offenses. Yeah, exactly. There was one guy, and you can see him in the NFL film stock, as they're bringing him out, he was like, man, he's like, you know where I live. You could have come to my house. Right. Basically, like, why did you drag me down here?

Right. And make me go through all this? Just come knock on my door and arrest me. He's like, I want to speak to Mr. Dutton on now. This turned out to be sort of the beginning of the end, though. It is, again, still praised as a success, if you look at any US Marshal stuff. But they, I think like, Fist Nine was just regular police work over a period of eight weeks. They got a bunch of more fugitives, which is great. Yeah, pretty impressive.

3,500 fugitives in eight weeks over four states and parts of Mexico. That's with no scams whatsoever. Yeah, no scams. But they just, they don't do this stuff anymore. I guess this is sort of the golden age of that kind of thing. They're still out getting fugitives. I think last year they captured more than 3000 violent fugitives in Operation North Star,

but that did not involve culture club tickets or sweepstakes prizes or anything like that. I think the answer is that starting in 1986, they went to nothing but beer and wine at their Christmas parties. Right. Yeah, not the rum punch. Right, right. So one of the things about Operation Flagship

is that it is so nuts that it actually happened. And when you just step back and look at it from the total outside and how great it was and everything, it's extremely entertaining. Cop smart, criminal stupid, can you believe they fell for this? There's football involved, like it has everything you could possibly want, right? So it did actually inspire some stuff. Like we said, that whole Mr. Zip thing inspired like the, got some, a rose delivery for you fugitive. This specific operation flagship inspired

apparently the opening scene in Sea of Love with Al Pacino where Samuel Jackson is among the fugitives who were tricked into a meet the Yankees scam. Yeah, yeah, that was copped directly from this, I'm sure. There was, so have you seen the movie Trap, M. Night Shyamalan's vehicle for his daughter's musical career? Yeah, have you seen it? No.

Okay, I just wanna talk for one quick minute about this because I heard this movie on two different movie podcasts I listened to. Scott hasn't seen. He covered this with Mike Castle, husband to Lauren Lapkus as the guest. And then it was also on The Flophouse, one of my favorite shows that I've listened to forever

on the Max Fun Network where they cover bad movies. Elliot, Dan, and Stu covered- So Trapp is bad then? Yeah, yeah, it's wonderfully bad though. Like I heard both of these before I saw it and I was like, I've got to watch this movie now because it's so funny, bad. Wow.

And it is. I highly recommend the M. Night Shyamalan, Josh Hartnett movie Trap because it is so ridiculous and awful. And the choices that are made as a movie are just bonkers and hysterical. Okay, so I know, I am a sentient adult human being, and I know that a lot of M. Night Shyamalan's,

some of his films are bad. Yeah. Just bad, terrible. I hated signs, hated signs. Although that was largely because of Mel Gibson's acting. Or over acting. Most of them are pretty bad to me. He's got a handful of pretty good ones, but yeah.

Well, that's what I was gonna say. I will still watch every movie that that man puts out because they're so imaginative, so creative. I also love the cinematography in his films. It's always so dark and moody. Yeah, they look pretty good. The Sixth Sense is one of the greatest films of all time. Yeah.

And even like, you can give up on him and then come back years later and watch the stuff that you missed. And you're like, man, I love this stuff. It's such a great thing to watch on like Saturday afternoon or something like that. Yeah, I like the Unbreakable movie and the split, the whatever, whatever.

There was like a trilogy in that world. Glass and Split. Yeah, I thought all those were pretty good. But yeah, a lot of his movies are really bad but still well made enough to be worthwhile even if it's just sort of like a cringe fun watch. And Trap is one of them. And whenever he pops up in his own movies,

it's always so bad and dumb and obvious. And he does so in the funniest, worst way in Trap. Okay, good. I gotta see this. It's really a fun, bad movie watch. I highly recommend it. Have you seen A Knock at the Cabin Door? I have not seen that one.

That's good. I don't see them all. Have you ever seen Servant, the show he made? Uh-uh. Good, bad? No, it's really good. It's a really good show. Like he does a great job. He's a confounding filmmaker.

Yeah. You know? Just watch Servant. I think you'll like it. I haven't seen all of the seasons. I might've seen the first three and then I stopped, but I can tell you the first three are definitely worth watching.

I think you'll get sucked in pretty quick. Yeah. We cannot finish though, even though I did mention Homer Simpson earlier. And then I stopped, but I can tell you, the first three are definitely worth watching. I think you'll get sucked in pretty quick. Yeah. We cannot finish though, even though I did mention Homer Simpson earlier. One of the great, great Simpsons episodes, they had a sting operation where they were giving away a boat, right?

Yeah. Yes, I'm sorry. I've watched it the other, yesterday, I guess I was watching it and I noticed something that I'd never noticed before What was it at the head of the scene at the beginning as they're still as as they're pulling up to the police station Homer's falling for a scam like Operation flagship, but instead of Redskins tickets, it's a free motorboat. Yeah So he's all he's all ready for this he's wearing a captain's hat driving the family up to the police station to claim his free motorboat. So he's all ready for this. He's wearing a captain's hat, driving the family

up to the police station to claim his free motorboat. And at the beginning of the scene as they're pulling up, Lou, one of the cops, has the door kind of like slightly jarred and is peeking out. Right when he sees Homer pull up, he like closes the door real quick. Yeah. Oh my God, you have to see it.

Like I can't do it justice. It's just this extra quick little thing that did not need to be added at all, but makes that whole scene so just perfect. Oh, just the heyday of that show. Yeah, season nine. It's, and the whole episode, by the way, too, Lisa the Skeptic is like one of the, like, more heartfelt episodes around, too.

So good. Hello, why are the pretty ones always in shame? One of my favorites. Also a little nugget on the end, if you're ever in Fort Smith, Arkansas, and why else would you be there, but going to the US Marshall Museum, you can see Louie McKinney's MCE black top hat on display.

Very nice. That was a nice little nugget. Yeah, thanks Dave for that nug. Yeah, thank you Dave, that was great. We appreciate the assist on this one and on Harry Belafonte, it's Dave Week everybody. That's right. And since I said it's Dave Week again,

that unlocked listener mail. Hey guys, love the show. I just started listening around 2018. I'm now realizing that was seven years ago. My commute to work is about 15 minutes in each direction, so your release schedule is perfect to listen to a fresh SYSK episode all the time. I was listening to Automats and hearing Chuck weird it out about pie for breakfast is so funny to me. Because I'm a chef and I will never understand why pie, sweetened thickened fruit in a pastry, is dessert but a Danish or a jelly doughnut, sweetened thickened fruit in a pastry, are breakfast. And by the way, this totally vindicates you because when you were like pie for breakfast

and I was like, that sounds so crazy, I was, and you said most breakfast foods are dessert and I was like, what are you talking about? You're completely right. I wasn't thinking about all this stuff. Oh, I love it when you say stuff like that. I was thinking about eggs and bacon, but I forgot about the sweet side of breakfast, and all that stuff is dessert.

Same goes for cake and pancakes. Flour, sugar, eggs, baking powder with a sweet condiment. French toast is plain white bread dipped in a sweet cinnamon custard, griddled, and then you drizzle sugar syrup on top of it. I love that stuff. So guys, Josh is right, lots of breakfast foods are pretty much dessert and I say if it makes you happy there's no reason to keep away from dessert foods at breakfast. Your stomach doesn't know what time of day it is.

Thanks for all the amazing information. I've learned so much from you guys and always have a great time listening. That is from Aaron. Brittingham and Aaron, thanks for proving me wrong. I forgot about all this sweet breakfast stuff. Thanks for proving me right. Yeah, and not to even mention cereal. I mean, what is Captain Crunch besides a bowl of dessert? That's right. I like to have a balanced breakfast.

I like the dessert part with a bunch of pancakes or French toast and syrup. Then I also like the eggs and the bacon part too. Breakfast is my favorite meal that I never eat, but when I do, by God, I love it. Well, yeah, I'm the same way. I don't typically eat breakfast, so if I'm going to eat breakfast breakfast,

like it's gonna be something like that. Agreed. I gave up cereal and I'm the better off for it, I just have to admit. Yeah, I don't eat that stuff anymore, but if you if I'm on vacation and there's a good breakfast place I'm gonna party down and then I'll skip lunch. That's right nice work Charles. Well if you want to be like

Aaron and vindicate me bring it on. You can send us an email to stuffpodcastsatihartradio.com Stuff you should know is a production of iihartradio.com.