Stuff You Should Know - Editorial Cartoons: Art as Satire

Episode Date: April 8, 2025

Editorial, or political cartoons, have a rich history in the United States and abroad. And though the Golden Age may have passed, the use of images to create satire and sway public opinion is still alive and well. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Something unexpected happened after Jeremy Scott confessed to killing Michelle Schofield in Bone Valley Season 1. Every time I hear about my dad, it's, oh, he's a killer. He's just straight evil. I was becoming the bridge between Jeremy Scott and the son he'd never known. At the end of the day, I'm literally a son of a killer. Listen to new episodes of Bone Valley Season 2 starting April 9th on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio. Hey, and welcome to the podcast.

I'm Josh, and there's Chuck, and Jerry's here too. And this is Stuff You Should Know. And that's it. It's the And Home Edition. Yeah, this is about editorial cartoons, aka political cartoons. They are one and the same. They're, you know, usually appear in usually appear traditionally in the editorial section, or the opinion section of newspapers.

So that's why you can call them either. And this is a profession that appears to be dying out if you look at the number of editorial cartoonists that are like full-time staff at major newspapers. Because there used to be more than 2000, about a hundred years ago. Now there's less than 20. And Dave, you know, helped us with this and found that stat. And I think we were both initially like, oh my God, they're all going away. Not necessarily true.

Those are full-time staffers on newspapers. Newspapers are in trouble. So that's a big reason why. We'll get to that. But there are still plenty of editorial cartoonists and political cartoonists mainly working online. Right, yeah, and for syndication companies, like you can work for a syndicate

and they'll distribute it to newspapers that wanna run your political cartoon, just like with comics. Yeah, so I won't say like we're at peak, the golden age of it, but it's still alive and well in just sort of a different form. Yeah, I've seen the golden age referred to as in the 19th century, and I'm like,

these people didn't live through the 80s. That was the golden age, baby. Oh man, I saw, if I had a dime for every like cartoonish drawing of Tip O'Neill or Ronald Reagan, I saw growing up as a kid. Right. I didn't even, like, who are these people? Yeah, no, that's a really great point that

editorial cartoons are like of the moment. Sometimes like of the day where they, like they'll still make sense later that week, but they're not hitting because something already changed or moved on. And they don't as such, it's very rare that editorial cartoon, um, can still like land the way it originally did. That means that whatever it was talking about was so historic that people decades

on know what the, what like the ins and outs of it that the political cartoon is referring to, but for the most part, it's like daily minutiae of ongoing politics and government. And if you just go back like 10 or 15 years, it's like, I forgot John Boehner even existed until I went back and looked at some of the old political cartoons. And it's so important at the time.

But all these years on, it does not matter what that political cartoon was saying. At the time it was, and that's a huge point about those things. That's why I just made it. Michael Dukakis drove a tank? I remember that. Who's Michael Dukakis?

Yep, I remember, and Kitty. That's funny stuff. Oh yeah, his wife Kitty, that's right. And Dan Quayle spells potato wrong. It's so funny to kind of think about the greatest political hits of our childhood. Yeah, yeah. It's really far away, Chuck.

Yeah, but like you said, it's sort of like greatest hits. You can look back at some Nixon Watergate political cartoons and totally get it and they land. But they're not always funny. And that's the whole point of this or not the whole point but it's satire. It's satire can be super super funny like if you read The Onion or something like that or a well-made satirical film or television show. But it's a different kind of humor. A lot of times satire

isn't necessarily laugh-out-loud stuff because the point of satire usually is to Influence what somebody thinks about something through in this case an image, right? one of the explanations I saw for satire is that it uses like a surface level presentation of a point To point out that the counterpoint is actually the more sensible thing to point out that the counterpoint is actually the more sensible thing. Hmm. I can, if I thought about that and saw it written down, I could probably figure out exactly.

Okay. I've got one for you. Alexander Pope said, praise undeserved is satire in disguise. No, still nothing. Okay. Go watch the movie Soul Plane or Brian's Song. And you will know what I'm talking about with satire. Brian Song. You know they used to use that in crying studies. That's the one thing I remember about Brian Song was when I was a kid I saw a news report where they're like, this new movie is so sad. And it showed people like in a room watching Brian Song with these

little tear gutters strapped to their face. Yeah. And just like bawling at that movie. And I'm sure the political cartoon of the day about that had people crying and somebody said, are they watching Brian Song? And the guy says, no, they just found out Ronald Reagan was re-elected governor.

Well, we also, you and I are, as we said on record many times before, grew up as adherents to Mad Magazine. And they didn't, I mean, they did political cartoons, essentially. It just wasn't for a newspaper, but there was plenty of that stuff in there. Nice point. One of the other things about political cartoons is they present an opinion. They do it in a way that's humorous, that's recognizable.

You don't have to know how to read, which was for a long time, the point of political cartoons and, uh, it's, it's presented in a way so that it takes everything, you know, it makes assumptions about what you know, but usually they're pretty good at that. And it, it takes everything, you know, and can turn it on its head. Can point out the folly, the ridiculousness of usually governments, politicians, policies, that kind of stuff. But sometimes it's aimed unfairly at groups of people. that the actual types of art it uses have been shown to neurologically hit us different than say like a photograph.

Yeah, like when you draw a caricature of someone or exaggerate, exaggerate? That was beautiful. The three-year-old, if you exaggerate something. Wait, hold on. Pfft. Right? You can't do it as well as you.

That's right, it's pretty good. Yeah, it has more of a, like neurologically more of an impact than an actual photograph of somebody doing something even ridiculous. Yeah, it's called a super normal stimulus or a super stimuli, which is it just hits your brain that much harder.

And so the caricature, like it's just something, people just figured out over time, building little by little to create like the optimal political cartoon, which apparently popped up around the 1950s. Well, or if you go to a theme park or the streets of Paris or something, and you see a caricature artist parked next to you,

the realistic, like I'll do a realistic pencil sketch of you. Yeah. You got like one person over there. You got 10 people in line trying to get their big old fathead version of themselves. Yeah, because they want to be super stimulated. Can I amend one thing that you said? You said that they use humor.

Almost always that's the case, but some of my favorite political cartoons over the years, sometimes they'll have just the really brutally gut-punchy sad ones. Yes. They're very, very effective, you know? Hilarious. No.

Yeah, no, they definitely, it doesn't always have to be humor, you're right, for sure. But what it always has to do is prove some kind of a point. There's never a political cartoon that's like, oh, this is just funny or something, because that's a comic stripper, that's family circus. Exactly. So, I say we go back, way back, to potentially the origin of political cartoons, which were religious in nature

because back in the 16th century, when Martin Luther was trying to reform the Catholic Church and ended up just kind of spinning off his own jam, religion was politics. They were interchangeable. It was one and the same. So when he started printing woodcut cartoons that were really unflattering depictions of the pope

and the bishops and the cardinals who aided the pope, he was making a political statement. And so some people say that some of these prints from like way back in 1545, there's one called The Birth and Origin of the Pope, that this was essentially the first political cartoon ever printed. Because that's another thing too,

you have to have a mass medium to spread this idea. And so this was shortly after the printing press was invented and almost off the bat, Martin Luther was among the people who were using it to make political statements using cartoons that's right, and if you're at home saying like I bet he did that because So many people couldn't read yet. You're exactly right. The printing press was brand new and

that changed Literacy for the world basically But right after it was invented a lot of people still couldn't read. And so he knew that if he wanted to hit his target audience in the right way, the birth and origin of the pope was a good way to do it. We'll describe a few of these that are sort of easy to picture. We're not going to get in the weeds, I think,

kind of describing in detail pictures on an audio show. But this one is very simple. It was the pope and the cardinals being pooped out by a she-devil. And then, yeah, and then nursed by other she-devils. Medusa's breastfeeding looks like a bishop in one part of this. It's really something.

And that was, I think I said 1545. And then nothing happened for 200 years. And then a guy came along named William Hogarth. And those of you who really, really, really pay attention to the stuff we say, um, might, might, um, find that that name rings a bell. And that would be because we talked about William Hogarth in our gin episode. That's right. Uh, there was a political cartoon he drew about, you know,

drunks basically living at the corner of Beer Street in Gin Lane. And that was Hogarth who's considered the grandfather of political cartoons. He was a serious painter, but then he got into making fun of rich folks in London. Yes, for sure. And he also, it was a social commentary. So it was satire. It was exaggerated.

That's another kind of key part of political cartoons. And it made a point about, in this case, society rather than politics. And so as a result, William Hogarth is considered the grandfather of political cartoons. He was not making political cartoons, but he definitely set out some of the points on the table that would later be picked up actually fairly quickly by printers, publishers, and cartoonists,

among whom was Benjamin Franklin, who started, he ran what's considered the first American political cartoon back in 1754. Yeah. So that was only, you know, a couple of decades after Hogarth's, man, Hogarth's, Hogwart's, his earliest work. So it was sort of in the same era and as we all know or maybe some people don't know this Benjamin Franklin ran a newspaper. Yeah. The

Philadelphia Gazette and it was a cartoon it was a it was a cut-up rattlesnake with each section of the snake being a colony like you know New York had the abbreviation of the colony and it said join or die and it, you know, New York had the abbreviation of the colony, and it said join or die. And it was, you know, to try and rally people to unify against France in the lead up to the French and Indian War. And he is credited as, even though he probably didn't draw this thing, he ran it, he is credited for making the rattlesnake a popular symbol for the colonies of the United, well, not United States yet, the colonies.

That's all I need to say. And that's a pretty famous image, that cut up snake as far as the US is concerned. But that was almost like a little side step for political cartoons because again, nothing happened for a good 50 years. And then along came James Gilroy. He is considered the father of political cartoons. He was drawing satirical images to

lampoon and point out the folly of people in charge. In this case, King George III was his favorite target because he was British. He was also anti-colonial too. And so there was one very famous one that he did that depicts the prime minister at the time, William Pitt, with Napoleon carving up the world. To eat. Yeah, it's in the form of a plum pudding, also known as plum poutine.

And Pitt and Napoleon are sitting at a table carving it up, just greedily eating the rest of the world. And apparently Napoleon was well aware of James Gilray, because he had a pretty great quote, didn't he? Yeah, I used to do a good Napoleon. I'm not gonna try though. He said that Gilray did more than all the armies of Europe to bring me down.

And if you look at this cartoon, it really sort of looks like what we know as a modern political editorial cartoon. It's really really cool looking, it looks great, the art is great, but it just it sort of has that look. It seems like one of the, or probably the first person who was making these cartoons that look like what we have today. Right, that's why Gilber is considered the father of the whole thing. That's right. And he came around, I think that the Plum Pudding in Danger was the name of the one we were just talking about. That was in 1805. And at the same time, magazines started being established

and founded around this time that were dedicated to satire. So the art form of political cartoons and political satirical magazines came together at the very beginning of the 19th century, not just in Britain, but France. Turns out France is basically the Spears point of satire. Yeah. Did not know that, but it's the truth, everybody. I remember when the Charlie Hebdo stuff came out,

and we're gonna talk about that in Act Three here, but that's when I sort of learned how astute and on point their satire had been for a long, long time. I didn't know that previously. Right, yeah. Doesn't seem like a very French thing, but I don't know, maybe it is. I didn't either, but there was a guy

from the early 19th century, I think, named Honoré Daumier. And Daumier actually got in trouble. I think he actually went to prison for his political cartoons, right? Yeah. In the 1830s, the French government sort of relaxed their laws against censorship. And so he had a little bit more leeway I guess to operate.

And initially in 1831 he was threatened with a 6,000 franc fine in 1831. That's I don't know what the conversion is but that's got to be a lot of dough. It's 45,000 US dollars today which you'd think it'd be way more but that's what... Did you really do that? I found a Swedish currency converter, historic currency converter. So inflation and currency conversions. Yes.

Amazing, and that's why you're Josh Clark. I didn't make this website, I just used it. I just used it. 6,000 Frank fine, he drew a caricature of King Louis Felipe with a pair for a head. And then when he was threatened with his fine, he put out a possibly one of the first or the first multi-panel cartoon, a four panel cartoon showing the metamorphosis from this king going like he's the king as a caricature. And now he looks a little more like a pear,

a little more like a pear and then he just has a pear for a head. Yeah, and the whole point was come on, like the guy looks like a pear and it's ridiculous that you would try to find me $6,000 for pointing out something so obvious. And I guess he avoided that fine at the time, but afterward he's like,

okay, I really need to get in trouble, so I'm going to create one called Gargantua. And this one was way worse than saying the king looks like he has a pear for a head. This was the king giant, like gorging himself on taxes that were being fed directly to him by the poor people. He's sitting on his throne and then he's pooping out, um, like tax breaks and special treatment for the wealthy friends of his.

And that one got him in trouble. Yeah. It's a good cartoon. It's like a ramp from the ground straight up to this giant's mouth with people in their wheelbarrows just like walking up and getting in his mouth and being pooped out as spoils. It's a great, great piece of art too. Not just the political version of it, or political aspect, it's beautiful as far as art goes. But that got him six months in the Husqow, but they let him out and he started working again. King Philippe was asked about this and you know kind of like why are you cracking

down on this but people can have a pamphlet printed with words that are very critical of you and he said a pamphlet is no more than a violation of opinion, a caricature amounts to an act of violence. You started out with almost a French accent there for a second. I debated it, then I came back, and then it was British for a hot second, and then it was just regal, general regal. Yeah. It really did evolve that quickly too. Failed.

So, yeah, King Louis Philippe put his finger on something, that there's something special or something different about a political cartoon that is way different than, say, a news article or even a photograph. You know, you can make the point, the news article for centuries and centuries could only be read by a select number of people. Everybody could get a political cartoon.

But there's something more than that, too. There's just something about a political cartoon that people who've been taken down by political cartoons have been able to put their finger on and said, this is way worse than just writing about me for some reason. Yeah, I think that tracks, too, even to, like, if you think about in, like, high school,

if a teacher caught you writing, like writing a note to your friend that said, Mr. Clark is such a jerk, I think that would be taken different than if someone drew a picture of Mr. Clark bent over being paddled by a line of students or something. Don't you think? Or would it be equal? No, it would be equal unless you put like stink lines coming off of me and then you

would be really hurtful. Oh man, stink lines. Who was the first person to do the stink lines? I don't know. I'll bet it was a political cartoonist too. Wasn't that great? So good. Should we take a break?

Yeah, let's take a break and we'll come back and talk about one of the more famous political cartoonists of all time, Thomas Nast. Something unexpected happened after Jeremy Scott confessed to killing Michelle Schofield in Bone Valley Season 1. I just knew him as a kid. Long silent voices from his past came forward. And he was just staring at me. And they had secrets of their own to share. Um, Gilbert King, I'm the son of Jeremy Lynn Scott.

I was no longer just telling the story. I was part of it. Every time I hear about my dad, it's, oh, he's a killer. He's just straight evil. I was becoming the bridge between a killer and the son he'd never known. If the cops and everything would have done their job properly, my dad would have been in jail.

I would have never existed. I never expected to find myself in this place. Now I need to tell you how I got here. At the end of the day, I'm literally a son of a killer. Bone Valley Season 2. Jeremy. Jeremy, I want to tell you something. Listen to new episodes of Bone Valley Season 2 starting April 9th on the iHeart Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to hear the entire new season ad-free with exclusive content starting April 9th, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. Insomnia or Aluminia? Um, how about the one on borderline disorder? Better yet, birth order, heard that one before But it was so nice, I learned it twice Everybody listen up Oh, it's Charles and Joshua

It's stuff, it's stuff, it's Charles and Joshua. It's stop, it's stop, it's stop, it's just now. All right, we're back. Josh promised talk of Thomas Nast. He's the most famous American political cartoonist, probably very influential cartoonist of the 19th century. And that's, you know, early on you were like, what? What was going on back then? Well, the Civil War was going on back then, and he was a German immigrant who drew for Harper's Weekly when Harper's Weekly was really growing in their readership with a lot of pro-union political

cartoons. Yeah. There was one that I think kind of tracks with what you were saying that's not at all funny, but it's super poignant, called Compromise with the South. The Democrats had run on a platform that the Civil War had been a failure up to this point for the 1864 election, when Lincoln was standing for re-election,

and that we should basically work with the South to just forget about the Civil War and end this. And Thomas Nast didn't like that one bit. So this compromise with the South image shows an amputee Union soldier standing on a crutch, shaking hands with his head bowed, shaking hands with a triumphant Confederate officer. Who's got- Jefferson Davis. Is it Jefferson Davis.

Is it Jefferson Davis? He's got like his boot standing one foot on a Union soldier's grave. And Columbia, who represents the United States, is weeping at that grave. And then also poignantly, there's a Union soldier, an African American Union soldier and his wife, who are now on the southern side,

and they're shackled back to being slaves. So- It's a gut punch, man. It is. It's a really good example of a political cartoon that isn't funny, but really gets the point across. And apparently it had a huge impact on America, especially the Union, right?

Yeah, I mean, some people say that had a lot to do with Lincoln getting re-elected. Lincoln referred to Thomas Nast at one point as our best recruiting agent. And in the 1868 election, Ulysses S. Grant credited his win to the sword of Sheridan and the pencil of Nast. I had never heard of Columbia, but you'll see in a lot of these political cartoons, Columbia as a representation of America was used a lot. And I think this is just a guess, I didn't look it up,

but it seems like Lady Liberty, Statue of Liberty has sort of replaced Columbia as far as the cartoon ship goes, because anytime there's like a sort of one of the sad gut punch ones, it's some shameful thing America has done and like Lady Liberty is crying somewhere or something like that. Right, yeah. I think Uncle Sam also displaced Colombia as well. Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah.

And Thomas Nast is the one who popularized the current image of Uncle Sam with his hat and all that. That's right. That was Thomas Nastass as well. He had a huge, huge impact as a political cartoonist. Well, he was the guy who came up with the elephant and the donkey for the two political parties. That's right.

Also, popularized our current American conception of Santa Claus. Yeah. Because remember, German immigrants are the ones who really brought Christmas to the United States and Thomas Nass was a German immigrant, so he loved Christmas. And yeah, he gave us our version of Santa Claus. The thing that he's most remembered for

as a political cartoonist though is that he is credited with taking down William Boss Tweed, who is one of the most corrupt political officials in the history of the United States. Apparently in a decade, he is thought to have stolen a billion dollars from New York City in today's money. That's incredible. Yeah.

He's popped up a lot in obviously our New York-centric episodes about the history of New York. Very corrupt person for the, you know, Tammany Hall political machine. And I think Nast had more than 140 Boss Tweed cartoons alone in Harpers. Yeah. So yeah, it was a big deal.

Boss Tweed, very much like King Louis Philippe, was aware that these things were having an effect on him. And he apparently said, stop them damn pictures. I don't care a straw for your newspaper articles. My constituents can't read. But they can't help seeing them damn pictures. And I mean, there was a lot of reporting at the time by some of the New York newspapers about Boss Tweed, and they definitely had some effect

on getting him investigated and ultimately put into prison where he died, but you really can't, like you could put all those articles and combine them pretty much equally with Thomas Nast's political cartoons and be like this is what took down Boss Street, these two things basically equally. Yeah, for sure.

And, you know, there are, a lot of times, I think people think about political cartoons as coming from the political left or the liberal progressive side. And that is certainly true, but they're, you know, all kinds of newspapers have always had political cartoons and all sorts of issues have been attacked from all angles from political cartoonists over the years. There have been, you know, plenty of examples of both. And NASS was one of those, so it was sort of a contradiction.

There's, you know, we'll talk a little bit about immigration and political cartoons throughout history, and he was one who kind of hit it from both sides. He would draw one one year in 1870, criticizing anti-immigration, the Know Nothing Party, and that was called throwing down the ladder by which they rose. And about a year later, had political cartoons out, criticizing Irish immigrants as violent drunks

taking over the country. Right, yeah, and this was a time when immigration criticizing Irish immigrants as violent drunks taking over the country. Right. Yeah, and this was a time when immigration was a huge, huge issue in the United States for probably the first time. It became like a flashpoint issue that you could run an entire campaign on. For example, there was a cartoon from 1903 in a satirical weekly called Judge, called Unrestricted Dumping Ground. Man, this one's tough.

It is, and there's a lot going on in this cartoon. It's color, which is, it really pops. But Uncle Sam is basically standing at the shores of the United States, and there's a bunch of immigrants swimming to the shore, but they're rats with human faces, which number one is unsettling, but number two is really offensive. And they're being dumped out of basically, it looks almost like a mailbox or something that says the slums of Europe. And they're being dumped into New York Harbor, and Uncle Sam's just standing there watching,

wondering if he can do anything about it, and then William McKinley is floating in like a cloud. The reason William McKinley was featured is because he was president. He was assassinated by a guy named Leo Chogosh in 1899, and Chogosh, born in Michigan, but he was considered an immigrant because his parents were immigrants. So like this was the kind of stuff that was being run

in papers and magazines at the time Basically saying like like immigrants are rats and like you can't let them in Yeah, well and those rats also just to further drive the point home, they had labels on these individual human rats that said like mafia, anarchist, socialist. So it was pretty on the nose, I guess you could say. There was another ad as far as the immigration front goes. Teddy Roosevelt at one point talked about hyphenated Americans being able to vote, like that shouldn't happen, Irish American, German American.

And this one was from Puck Magazine, which was, is that American or was that British? I thought that was British. I think Punch was British and Puck was American. Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah, Punch was British. But it had a caption, again, Uncle Sam, saying, why should I let these freaks vote when they're only half American? Right.

Yeah. Yeah, it's a really bizarre cartoon. It's tough to describe, but go look that one up. So one of the other things we said is that political cartoons sometimes also target policies, social issues. And there was a really good one that Dave turned up called From the Cradle to the Mill that really got across child labor or the need for child labor laws.

It's this innocent looking little, probably five year old kid. I think he's holding a teddy bear still and this dark, ghoulish spirit named necessity. It's like a grim reaper basically. Yeah, essentially has come into the child's house and is taking him by the hand to lead him off to the mill for work.

And it really, it gets the point across. Like, you know, this was from 1912, and if child labor was still in issue today, you could run it today. It just really just captured what the problem was. Yeah, and this was a time, you know, we talked about the, a time, you know, we talked about the, in France, you know, when the one political cartoonist

was put in jail for six months. In America at this point, there were limits on freedom of speech. So in 1917, that artist who drew that was targeted by the freshly passed Espionage Act, which was, part of which was an attempt to silence critics of us going into World War I. And they almost did put him in prison for a cartoon called Having Their Fling. And this is a pretty brutal one too, and it showed the, like, editors,

capitalists, politicians, and preachers, like cheering entry into an orgy of death, basically. Yeah, that one hits as well, for sure. Speaking of World Wars, World War II was a big kind of accelerator of political cartoons. Because by this time, newspapers have really hit in the United States and around the world. But there were a lot of newspapers in the middle of the century, the 20th century. And so World War II produced a lot of fodder

for political cartoons. One of whom, one of the, I don't know if he was one of the most famous at the time, but today one of the most noteworthy was Dr. Seuss. I think we mentioned in our Dr. Seuss episode was a political cartoonist for a little while during World War I or II. Yeah, of course.

Theodor Geisel, yeah, we did talk about this because some of the stuff, he worked for a New York newspaper called PM for, I think, two or three years in the early 40s. Right. And it's, you know, it looks like Dr. Seuss stuff in his total signature style. But he would, like some of them would be like against racist and discriminatory hiring practices and policies that are hampering the war effort. But he also, and we talked about this in the Seuss episode, many years later was kind of called out for having a lot of racist caricatures drawn in his in his work. Yeah especially there's one of Tojo who ran Japan at the

time during World War II and that in just the most racist Japanese stereotype you can possibly imagine but Dr. Seuss style. Yeah exactly. So yeah there was another prominent cartoonist that actually emerged from World War II, like was drawing editorial cartoons on the front lines of World War II. His name was Bill Malden. I wanna say Maudelyn, so bad, but it's Malden. Yeah, me too.

And if you see pictures of him when he was drawing these cartoons during World War II, he looks like a baby. He looks like the kid that necessity comes and takes from his house to the mill in that one 1912 political cartoon. Now I'm looking up a picture of him because I didn't actually look up the artist. And yeah, he looks like a child.

He really does. And he came up with two of the most beloved characters, recurring characters in the history of political cartoons, in part because there's not really that many recurring characters in political cartoons, right? But there were two GIs named Willie and Joe, and he just depicted their life in the front lines,

humorously for the most part, but sometimes kind of poignantly as well. Yeah, and these, a lot of times were just, I don't think we mentioned, like, you know, sometimes it'll be an image with a, kind of like at the back of the New Yorker with those cartoons, they'll have a caption. Right, the New Yorker is stealing my ideas.

Right. Ziggy at the complete window. Most of these had captions, the Willie and Joe stuff, but not all political cartoons use words at all. Sometimes very few words, sometimes it's words just in the image, like on a sign or something like that. But sometimes it's like a character saying something. Yeah, there's one that I think really kind of stands out

of Bill Maldon's that shows a GI returning from World War II. He's sitting at a table and he's being interviewed by the press. And there's an army PR man standing next to him and has his arm around his shoulder. And he's speaking on behalf of this GI. And he says, he thinks the food over there was swell. He's glad to be home, but he misses the excitement of battle. You may quote him. And it's just kind of, well, I don't know.

I'll leave it to you to decide what it means. Right. Yeah. There's another one here that I'm looking at that's Willie and Joe reading the papers of their new soldier brought to the battalion. And the new soldier is clearly like, you know, 13 years old or something. And Willie and Joe, he says, oh, that's okay. The replacement center says he comes

from a long line of infantrymen. Yeah, his uniform is like hanging off of him. Yeah, so clearly making a point about like sending children to war. There was another thing too that was a recurring theme in these, in Malden's World War II cartoons. And that is how important hearing from people back home was to GIs.

Like getting mail was a recurring theme throughout that. And there was one that I saw that it was like you were saying, there's no dialogue, there's no caption or anything like that. But it's a soldier and he's sitting there with like, he's sitting down with his back against a tree, he's holding his rifle up, but at his feet is a bunch of packages that say, do not open until December 25th. So like he's in battle carrying around this package that he can't wait to open until Christmas.

It's like, it's got a touch of humor to it, but more than anything, it really struck me as quite touching, you know? Yeah. Yeah, for sure. The one that artistically is, like I think one of the coolest ones was actually from a German. I mean, I really hate saying this out loud. It was from a Nazi. What was his name? His name was Harald.

He was a Norwegian Nazi named Harald Domslash. In 1944, he was a Norwegian Nazi named Harald Domslash. And in 1944, he drew a political cartoon. The caption reads, the USA shall save European culture from destruction. With what right? And it's a picture, you know, sort of pointing out all the hypocrisies of America, like, you know, this big winged,

sort of multi-armed, multi-legged beast made out of a drum and has a Klansman head and holding a money bag and there's a noose hanging off. It's just crazy looking. It looks like something like Pink Floyd would have used on an album cover. Yeah, it is nuts. It's called Culture Terror, but spelled with a K, and I think terror is spelled differently too. I guess in the Norwegian. Well, there's your band then.

Just call your band that and use that as the album cover. Culture Terror, yeah, that's a great idea. You're halfway there. But go check it out, because it's striking, just the art alone is striking. But that, the Nazis calling out America for our own- Misdeeds. Misdeeds, great, thank you.

That was also carried on by some Americans too. There was a black cartoonist named Jay Jackson who drew for the Chicago Defender, which is a black newspaper. And during World War II, did you see the one of the blind leading the blind? Yeah. I mean, talk about striking. So it's America, it's a figure representing America

and he's leading a figure with a swastika. So he's representing Germany. I think it even says Germany on the guy. And they're both blind and they're both wearing dark glasses and on the lenses it says race hate. So what he's saying is that both of these countries that are fighting this war for moral superiority are both blinded by their hatred of different races,

and it's one of the better political cartoons I've ever seen. Again, not funny, like you were saying, but still just an amazing point. Yeah, for sure. We should probably take our last break. Right before the break I want to mention that they've been giving out a Pulitzer Prize for editorial cartooning. They started that in 1922 and Bill Malden won that Pulitzer for his World War II work and we'll talk about someone else who won several of those awards right after this. -♪ MUSIC PLAYING confessed to killing Michelle Schofield in Bone Valley Season 1. I just knew him as a kid.

Long silent voices from his past came forward. And he was just staring at me. And they had secrets of their own to share. Um, Gilbert King. I'm the son of Jeremy Lynn Scott. I was no longer just telling the story. I was part of it. Every time I hear about my dad is, oh he's a killer, he's just straight evil. I was becoming the bridge between a killer and the son he'd never known. If the cops and everything would have done their job properly, my dad would

have been in jail. I would have never existed. I never expected to find myself in this place. Now I need to tell you how I got here. At the end of the day, I'm literally a son of a killer. Bone Valley, Season 2. Jeremy. Jeremy, I want to tell you something. Listen to new episodes of Bone Valley, Season 2, starting April 9th on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to hear the entire new season ad free with exclusive content starting April 9th, subscribe to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. Aluminia, how about the one on borderline disorder?

Better yet, birth order. Heard that one before, but it was so nice. I learned it twice. Everybody listen up. Oh, it's Charles and Joshua. It's tough. It's tough. It's tough.

You should know. OK, Chuck. It's tough, it's tough, it's tough, it's just not hard. Okay, Chuck, I just want to point out, I think we said we weren't really going to describe images. Right, well, not much, yeah. We've been doing it pretty prolifically. I hope it's going well, I can't tell. All right, no more. So I think we should talk about a guy named Herb Block,

or Herb Block was his pen name, cartoon name, and he's considered probably the most important political cartoonist of the entire 20th century. He's got three Pulitzers for cartooning alone and an additional Pulitzer for public service that he got for just excoriating Nixon over the Watergate scandal. Yeah, imagine if you're a political cartoonist

during Watergate, you're kind of licking your chops a bit. Yeah, for sure. Or McCarthyism, like he was really around during a fraught time politically. Yeah, he drew, just Block alone, drew more than 100 cartoons about Watergate between 72 and 74. And that's something that I think bears pointing out. Political cartoonists are expected to draw a cartoon a day.

Like you didn't write an article every day, you didn't go cover something. You drew a political cartoon five days a week to run in the daily newspaper. Yeah, and 25 of them for Saturday and Sunday. Right. And Block actually, I mean, I talked about the time that he was there. I mean, it's actually pretty vast.

He was there from 46 to 2001. So he got to cover quite a bit politically. He coined the term McCarthyism. I think we talked about that in the McCarthyism episode in a 1950 cartoon. He was definitely, you know, on the left side of the political spectrum, because he would go after, you know, environmental polluters and war, the immorality of war, the government, you know, as a whole. And they have named, since 2004, the best editorial and political cartoonist is named after him, the Herblock

Prize. Yeah, and I went and looked to see who some of the recent candidates or winners were. And there's one that I noticed. I was looking through current political cartoons and this guy kept coming up. His name was Pedro X. Molina. And he draws for Counterpoint. So he is super lefty. He was a 2024 finalist for the Herblock Prize, but his cartoons are just on point.

He's, I think, probably the best working today of the younger generation. Oh, cool. One of the ones that I saw was there's an old, like an extension cord outlet, you know, have like the two outlets that you can plug into. Oh, you sent me this one, right? Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. It just looks old and worn and everything. And one of the outlets says Biden, and the other one says Trump. And then, and also in the picture is an Apple charger, and that says Gen Z. They have nowhere to, no one to plug into. Yeah.

And it's just, there's no words aside from the names and Gen Z. And like it just, again, really gets the point across. But I like that guy's work. Yeah. It also, instead of saying Gen Z, could have said a lot of America. Right. Right, for sure. So we should finish up by talking a bit about Charlie Hebdo as promised early on.

You mentioned that France has been a hotbed for satire since the get-go. And the radical satirical newspaper Charlie Hebdo has been around for a long, long time, since 1960. Their original motto was mean and nasty. And they made, we probably would not here in the States unless you just are sort of in the know, not known much about Charlie Hebdo had it not been for a couple of tragic events. On Halloween Day in 2011, they published an issue number 1011. They retitled instead of Charlie Hebdo, they retitled the issue Chariah Hebdo for Sharia law.

And it was a cover in response to the Tunisian news where an Islamist party had won parliamentary elections there. And on the cover, it featured a cartoon rendering of the Prophet Muhammad. And the caption read, 100 lashes if you do not die laughing. And in Islam, any image of Muhammad is very much forbidden, much less, you know, a cartoon making fun of something. And violence ensued because of this.

Yeah, I think in 2012, no, that same year, 2011. So within a couple months, the offices were firebombed. No one was hurt. But in response, and I didn't know this, I thought it was just that cover, that drawing, which is, you know, like you don't do that. That's a violation of, like a huge violation of Islamic custom to make any kind of,

like you said, picture of Muhammad, let alone making him a cartoon. But they, they went even further after the fire bombing and they, in 2012, they published more cartoons, one of which was Muhammad naked on all fours and that actually, from what I can tell is what triggered the, the, the murders of a bunch of the people who worked at the offices in 2015. Yeah. It was two men stormed into the offices, murdered 12 people.

This was, you know, the biggest news. There's a cat walking around outside my house right now that I do not recognize. Very interesting. Sorry, just caught me off guard. Yeah, it did. I was like, did one of my cats get out? It's like, nope, it's not one of my cats. It's a burglar. Yeah, murdered 12 people,

probably not the best time to mention that during the middle of this awful, awful retelling, including the editor of Charlie Hebdo, four other cartoonists, and also went on to kill four Jewish people, and then the French police took them out. Yeah, and so like immediately there were protests and marches in France,

like millions of people across the country, and basically a meme was developed almost immediately. It was just, we Charlie, and it means I am Charlie. And they were saying like, I'm standing up for freedom of expression, freedom of speech. And, uh, that was pretty much the zeitgeist across all of France. Like everyone stood up and supported Charlie

Hebdo after that tragedy. Um, and I saw Chuck that 10 years on the 10 year anniversary just came and went this past January, um, they, apparently people have And I saw Chuck that 10 years on, the 10 year anniversary just came and went this past January. Apparently people have changed their opinions in some cases. Like 31% of people polled agreed with the idea that Charlie Hebdo brought that on themselves.

Whereas that same, the answer to that question would have probably been in the low single digits right after the shooting. Yeah, at the time. Yeah. Yeah, geez. I thought that was interesting. I mean, how different things can change in 10 years,

you know? Yeah, I mean, in the wake of a tragedy like that, yeah, I'm not saying I agree one with the other. I just, I think a lot of times, opinions change on stuff like that over time for certain people. Ten years is a long time these days. It didn't used to be. But man oh man, a lot can happen in ten years. We've learned to pack it in.

So we mentioned early on that there's only 20 on-staff major newspaper cartoonists. The reason for that, as we all know, is newspapers are having a tough time. Declining subscriptions mean they don't want to have further declining subscriptions by angering readership on either side of the political spectrum, because people might cancel over something like that, and they just can't afford that anymore. So people are more sensitive these days. They're, sadly sadly editors are not standing behind their cartoonists like they used to.

And if they flag something, they'll pull it and the cartoonists may quit or may be fired. Yeah, I mean, if people complain about a political cartoon, it used to be like, hey, it's true. Now it's like, oh, sorry. And then they print a retraction and then fire the political cartoonist. That's new. That's the way that the industry is changing.

But it seems to be pretty much relegated to newspapers and just some newspapers. Right. Like Mike Lukavich at the AJC. He's one of the premier editorial cartoonists still working today for a newspaper. Man, he's been around for a long, long time. Yeah, and he doesn't pull punches. And I think that AJC is still behind him every single time.

Yeah, that's good. So it's not like it's going to happen, you know, no matter what newspaper you work at. It just depends on the, usually the outlook of the publisher. And if you offend the publisher, used to be like the editors would talk them down, but the editors don't do that anymore,

and so you can get fired. And there was a very well-known political cartoonist, another Pulitzer winner, named Anne Telnes. And in 2019, she kind of saw the writing on the wall, and she published like a series, or not a series, it's multi-panel cartoon that basically was an infographic explaining what political cartoonists do, the danger that they're in right now in the United States

as far as like being canceled and fired, and then what the ultimate problem with that is. And she essentially says, political cartoonists are the canary in the coal mine. If we start getting fired for expressing opinions and views that are legitimate because people don't want to hear that, that is a big red flag that freedom of expression is under attack in your country. And she was saying, that's basically happening right now.

And she ultimately quit just earlier this year, right? Yeah, she had been at the Washington Post for 17 years and quit because her editors there at the Post refused to publish one of her cartoons based only on her opinion. So it's, yeah, that's kind of the state of things that the Washington Post these days. Yeah, so, and across a lot of newspapers.

Like again, they're like an endangered breed, but that's specifically at newspapers. It's still a very thriving art form form and you can make a really good case that it's still around and very popular. It's just transmuted in a lot of cases to memes. I'll give you an example of one I saw recently. You know the, this is fine, the dog sitting at the table drinking coffee in a room that's on fire. I haven't seen that one. And says this is fine. I haven't seen that one. This is fine.

I don't see any memes though. It's a great meme. But in one panel he's just sitting there and it says Arson is free speech now. And then the next panel it's him just sitting there drinking the coffee in the room on fire. He says, this is fine. And that, I mean, it's a meme.

Somebody put it together probably using a meme generator, but you can also make a case that that is, in a lot of ways, it bears a strong resemblance to political cartoons. All right. You got anything else? I got nothing else. Okay. Well, since we got nothing else, that means this episode is done and it's time for listener mail.

This one's Scrabble-centric. Before I read this email, we do have to acknowledge that we failed to mention the ultimate Simpsons reference of course of Quijibo. A very, very old Simpsons reference from an early episode where Bart Simpson, I think it was Bart, argued for Quijibo, which was just the letters as they appeared on his rack. Was it word? Right.

Right. Okay. So sorry about the Quidgey Bow. We heard from a lot of people. But this is a different email. Hey guys, the real reason I'm writing is to tell you about the role of Scrabble in my family's history. My parents loved to play Scrabble and my dad being the kind of guy he was made of a table

to record their stats by hand using a ruler ruler both to make sure the lines are straight and the columns are Each the same width from page to page ended up using five pages or so of very thin lines He would record the date in the game that was played in the final score And my mom's final score two more columns in which he would track a running total of minigames How many games each of them had won. Besides being a perfect example of my dad, there's also an interesting thing about the dates. There are three periods when they begin to play all the time, following periods for which they hardly played it all, in between each my two siblings and I were born.

That's pretty funny. They're like, why did things drop off for two years? We had other things to do. Exactly. When my dad died, I inherited their scrabble board and their record was in it. And this is one of my most precious possessions. That is from Reverend Eric. That's a sweet email. Thanks a lot, Reverend Eric. That's great. I can just imagine, man, making your own columns and rows with a ruler. That's great. I can just imagine man making your own columns and rows with the ruler that's dedication right there. I know those dads I'm not that dad and my dad wasn't that dad but I've known those dads. Yep. If you want to

be like Reverend Eric and send us an email that tells us how sweet your parents were we love those kinds of things you can send it off to stuffpodcastsatihartradio.com Stuff you should know is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts, my heart radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Something unexpected happened after Jeremy Scott confessed to killing Michelle Schofield in Bone Valley Season 1. Every time I hear about my dad, it's, oh, he's a killer. He's just straight evil. I was becoming the bridge between Jeremy Scott and the son he'd never known.

At the end of the day, I'm literally a son of a killer. Listen to new episodes of Bone Valley Season 2 starting April 9th on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.