Stuff You Should Know - How Bartering Works

Episode Date: February 9, 2011

Bartering is an ancient practice. With the emergence of money-based transactions, it's no wonder that people might think bartering is a thing of the past. Tune in to learn more about the bartering process -- and where it's still used today. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Flooring contractors agree. When looking for the best to care for hardwood floors, use Bona Hardwood Floor Cleaner, the residue-free, fast-drying solution especially designed for hardwood floors, delivering the safe and effective clean you trust. Bona Hardwood Floor Cleaner is available at most retailers where floor cleaning products are sold and on Amazon. Also available for your other hard surface floors like stone, tile, laminate, vinyl, and LVT. For cleaning tips and exclusive offers, visit Bona.com slash Bona Clean. The war on drugs is the excuse our government uses to get away with absolutely insane stuff, stuff that'll piss you off. The cops, are they just like looting? Are they just like pillaging?

They just have way better names for what they call, like what we would call a jackmove or being robbed. They call civil acid. Be sure to listen to the war on drugs on the iHeart Radio App, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Brought to you by the reinvented 2012 Camry. It's ready, are you? Welcome to Stuff You Should Know from HowStuffWorks.com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark with a barely awake Charles W. Chuck Bryant, who's drowsy. I'm not drowsy. You look drowsy. Really? Yeah, I look old. That's totally different.

When you get to be 40, you just eat a little drowsy all the time. Are you rested? Yeah. I just woke up. Crud. Yeah. I got something to look forward to. It's all downhill, buddy. I'll tell you something that the prisoners in Florida's state penal system have something to look forward to. Spring softball? In addition to that. Okay. Buying honey buns at the commissary. Is that the new guy on Sublux C? You know what? I wrote about this and somebody had a funny comment like that. The honey buns joke. Yeah. No, which is really terrible joking to think about it. But no, actual honey bun, like the pastry dessert. It's the best. Love it. It depends on

which brand you're talking about, in my opinion. Krispy Kreme honey buns are pretty rocking. I've never tried one of those. Are they frosted? Oh, I've got to try one of those. I had no idea. Wow. Okay. Well, the ones I'm talking about come in cellophane. They're sold for about a buck or so in prison. So, you know, it's not the greatest brand on the planet probably. Probably not. And apparently in Florida, I think around the country, but in Florida in particular, they're like the new prison currency. Honey buns are. Because it's a new product that people just crave? No, it's just been kind of quietly building up over time and everybody's been making the cigarette joke for decades and then noticed that actually tobacco is outsold in the Florida

state penal system by honey buns. Wow. Everybody loves a honey bun. Yeah. So are envelopes. They're like the number one seller. Really? In state prisons. In the county, in the county lock up, free dried coffee and ramen noodles still outsell honey buns. But if you're up the river in the state, pokey, honey buns are number one. Wow. And then envelopes, because people are clearly like to write their letters, right? Yes. Or they use envelopes as napkins for honey buns. It seems like they would give them envelopes. Come on, if these guys are going to take the time to write somebody. Right. Give them an envelope. No. You got to buy it. Yeah. With your 35 cents an hour making license plates. Anyway, Chuck. Prison's so unfair. So these honey buns are,

they're used as bribes for protection. They're used in exchange for other food items. Sure. Maybe some envelopes if you're running low. They're used for bets as wagers. Really? Seriously. There's a really cool article in St. Petersburg Times that was really well written about it, right? But what these people are doing, let's say in the case of a bribe, let's say Todd, the white collar criminal who somehow ended up in a state prison, is paying tiny, the ironically named huge guy for protection in honey buns. What's going on there is bartering. Todd is bartering a honey bun in exchange for a tiny's service, protection. Right. Beating the tar out of guys who want to take Todd's honey buns. Or he himself not doing that with his own cronies.

No, that's a racket. That's not necessarily the same thing. Oh, yeah. Still trading without money. I guess so. Okay. So we've finally reached the end of that God awful intro. And we're now talking about bartering, Chuck. Yep. Bartering. New or old? Old, baby. Old is the hills. The earliest civilizations, Josh, bartered for stuff because there was no currency back in the day. So, I mean, you know, caveman, tuk-tuk that we always talk about, tuk-tuk trades, you know, animal pelt for spear. Okay. Made from rhino horn. Yeah. Because he sees like, I've never seen one of those, but I've got all these great pelts and you look a little cold. So let's work out a deal here. Right. Bartering. It is. And you're absolutely right. It is pretty old. It really started to

take off after we left our hunter gather roots though. Yeah. Once we settled down in the communities. Yeah. It made a lot more sense. Sure. You might be some sort of farmer and end up with a surplus. Well, you've got all the grain you need. Yeah. But you need some meat too. Sure. And this guy over here has some pigs that have been looking pretty delicious lately. So you trade them some of your surplus grain for a pig and the guy who has pigs gets some of your grain and he has pigs. You have pigs and grain too. Everybody's happy. Yeah. Jerry thinks this whole thing is funny for some reason. Yeah. I mean, that's how it all started. I actually did a report in elementary school. We had to social studies report where we had to devise a city of our own like a town and we had to construct,

you know, how it all looked at and what they did. And I was the only kid who had a barter system instead of money. Oh, very smart. The teacher thought at the time that that was very, you know, a very smart kid for doing that because I was, you know, like nine years old. Every once in a while, you just kind of like drift off while you're taking a shower thinking about the congratulations the teacher gave you that day. That was my last one. Congratulations, Chuck. So it has stuck with me all these years, though, that it's funny that as a little kid, I thought bartering was kind of a cool system. Yeah. And it was and it still is, we'll find out. Yeah. There's a lot of cool, maybe cool is not the right word. I don't think cool is an economic

term, but there's a, it has a lot of benefits in that bartering generally doesn't lead to surplus, right? Yeah. Leads to basically people just having what they need. Yeah. You're exchanging with something you need or something you have that someone else needs for something that you need. Right. And in most cases, most cases, you don't want a whole lot of leftovers. You just kind of, you have something that you're willing to exchange for something else. Everybody's seeking an even trade. So nobody's giving anybody a lot more than they need. Yeah. Or, you know, conversely, screwing the other person over and taking as much as possible. Sure. Because both parties have to be cool with it, right? Or there's no trade. So there's not a lot of surplus. Not

a lot of surplus to anyone who's read Jared Diamond's The Greatest Mistake in the History of the Human Race means that you don't necessarily have anybody who's in charge or has control over other people by controlling the surplus. Interesting. Very. Well, when bartering, Josh, it's everything's relative obviously because if you need, if you live someplace where it's cold and you need more shelter, blankets, let's say, or whatever, or let's modernize and say heater, then that's going to be pretty valuable to you. Right. What you're talking about is the relative value of an item, right? Exactly. So like in a money system, like there's a fixed value to the dollar and it fluctuates. You know, there's inflation and deflation and stagflation. But ultimately,

when you're coming to somebody with a dollar, you both have an agreed upon awareness of what that dollar's worth, which is a dollar. Yeah. Like you were saying with a heater, somebody who lives in a hot climate is going to value that thing less than somebody who lives in a cold climate. Absolutely. So the person in the cold climate would be willing to pay more or trade more for that relative value. It's the distinction between bartering and money. Yeah. One of them. But the main one. It's my favorite. Timing is another big deal when it comes to bartering, because depending on when this is happening and what your situation is, things can have a different value. The article used an example of Richard III, my kingdom for a horse. Yeah. When he was in a

battle, I was on a hike in Utah one time where I would have paid $1,000 for a bottle of Gatorade. Right. Or lift down the hill. And I wanted the Gatorade. It was that hot and dehydrated. Wow. Yeah, it was bad. Were you hospitalized? No. No, we hiked out and made it to the spot and bought like five Gatorades and drank them all. Your urine was just chunky-style for a little bit. Yeah, it came out as little pebbles. Yeah. The war on drugs impacts everyone, whether or not you take drugs. America's public enemy number one is drug abuse. This podcast is going to show you the truth behind the war on drugs. They told me that I would be charged for conspiracy to distribute 2,200 pounds of marijuana. Yeah, and they can do that without any drugs on the table. Without any

drugs, of course, yes, they can do that. And I'm the prime example of that. The war on drugs is the excuse our government uses to get away with absolutely insane stuff. Step out of piss y'all. The property is guilty. Exactly. And it starts as guilty. It starts as guilty. The cops, are they just like looting? Are they just like pillaging? They just have way better names for what they call like what we would call a jackmove or being robbed. They call civil acid. Be sure to listen to the war on drugs on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast. I'm Nikki Lynette, the host of About a Girl here to tell you about our new season. Every episode of About a Girl digs deep to explore the real stories of women who were there playing an important role

in the creation of classic, beloved music. For every story you might think you know, there's always another side. Claudia Lanier sang with Ike and Tina Turner, George Harrison and Bob Dylan, but she also inspired songs by David Bowie, The Rolling Stones and Leon Russell. Sharon Osborn is a household name today, but she toiled for years under the sway of her violent criminal father before a turbulent marriage to Ozzie very nearly killed her. Shirley and Willie Nelson, Shantay Brody and Snoop, even Beyonce. I'm excited to tell you all about them on About a Girl, season four. Listen to About a Girl on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. So yeah, timing has a lot to do with the value of something as far as how much you

might need that item. Yeah, and Jane McGrath wrote this one. Oh Jane, she did a good job too. Remember Jane? Yeah, let me ask you this. What about when it's not just a one-to-one deal, like you've got corn and your friend Ralph next to your farm has cows, but Ralph doesn't want corn, he wants wheat, but your buddy Pete has wheat, so you can arrange a little three-way trade there if you're an innovative guy, and that's called a triangular barter, and NBA teams do this. Any sports team can, but it happens more in the NBA than anywhere else. Well for like draft picks and stuff? Well just trading players, like you know, I want your center, but you don't want my point guard, you want their forward, but I'll take their forward and package it in such a way that

it accommodates everybody. Huh, so that's a triangular barter. Which, so you are pointing something out in that it's not necessarily the most common thing in a barter economy where you have something that I need and I have something that you need at that moment too. Well that's what works because you talked about timing and relative value, right? That's one of the downsides of the barter. And it gets even more complex than a triangular barter, that's a lot of work, you know, that's a lot of walking, you know. If you find that third person and so Ralph has that cow you want, Pete has wheat, you have corn, but Pete doesn't want your corn, you're going to have to go find somebody who wants your corn, who has something that Pete would want.

So you can trade or more, which is called a multilateral trade. You can see it gets kind of convoluted as well. Oh, totally. You know. Well, and when it gets convoluted, there's a greater risk for making a bad deal just to get it over with, just because you really need that cow and that's one of the, you know, we'll talk about the downsides to certainly one of them. Yeah, well, I think we kind of are. Oh, are we already there? Okay. Well, that's one of the downsides is that a lot of work goes into this. And in the end, you might settle for less than a great deal because it's there's so much work involved. There's some other factors that might force you to settle for poo poo deal. And that is time works against you. Yeah. You remember,

we kind of used the example of you with the Gatorade. Yeah. Right. Were you somebody who had something to trade for that Gatorade at that moment and somebody came along with Gatorade and gouged you say you had tomatoes to trade, right? Yeah. You kind of need to trade your tomatoes because they're a perishable item. Yeah. So time is working against you. So you might take a bad trade just to get rid of these tomatoes, right? Right. Or in the article, example is a great one. Let's say you're a craftsman. You build these great banquet tables. Banquet tables are big and heavy. You go to trade for tomatoes because you really need those tomatoes and the guy's like, hey, you know, I mean, I'll give you 15 tomatoes because I know this is worth like 300 tomatoes,

but what are you going to do with 300 tomatoes? So it's when you don't have equal, you got a lot of small things, you have one large thing. You're kind of in trouble. I don't know if you pick the right business model. Yeah. As a craftsman. And even if you even if you did take 300 tomatoes, you're going to run around, you know, trying to trade those surplus tomatoes for, you know, you know, other stuff you may or may not need, which when you could be building tables, you should be building tables. That's what you do. That's what you're good at. Yeah. Exactly. So that's because, you know, bartering initially sounds like, oh, that's so great. You just trade things and there's no money and money leads to badness, but it's not that simple. It's rare

that you just find that perfect match and perfect timing to work out in a one-to-one trade. Right. And then establishing that, that value, considering that everything in a barter system has a relative value. Yeah. You know, there's, as Jane put it, you know, comparing apples to oranges is still comparing, you know, fruit of roughly the same shape and size. It's a bad saying. She, yeah. She points out that it's a terrible saying. It's like the low man on the totem pole. Yeah. I'm going to start saying that's like comparing cows to table legs. Exactly. People will be like, what the heck are you talking about? You just be like, listen to the podcast. Yeah, exactly. So Chuck, because our ancestors are four people,

ran into these problems where they couldn't figure out how many tomatoes equal the table and when they did, it just was way too much. Sure. They got tired of lugging tables around. They came up with something that we call money. Yeah, currency. And it's solved a lot of problems. For all of its drawbacks and ills and evils, money solved a lot of problems. What's easier to carry money around than a table for one? Yeah. Think about how much a hundred dollar bill weighs. Not much. Not very much. It sits heavy in my pocket though, my friend. It burns mine. It burns a whole. It can also be divided pretty easily. Sure. You know, a hundred one dollar bills still isn't as heavy as a table, right? Yeah. Well, and it levels

the playing field, like you said. So then you don't have to compare tomatoes to tables. It's pretty easy to set your price. If people want to buy it, great. Then you've got your dough and you can just buy your two tomatoes for dinner that night. Yeah. But they cool. That's money. I'm sensing something. Are you cool with this one or me? You like the barter system? No, it's fine. Which would you prefer, money or barter? Well, I mean, as a nine-year-old, I thought bartering was kind of neat. Right. And I still like the concept of trading. Like the musical instrument section on Craigslist is lousy with dudes like, I'll trade my Les Paul for your Martin acoustic. Right. So you've hit upon a

the modern revival of bartering. It's all over the place, actually. Yeah. I think Craigslist has an entire section for each city dedicated to bartering specifically. Right. Or is it subsections in the, I don't know this. You know, I think Craigslist does have a section, but unlike the music instruments board, there's people trading just because that's where they seek trades. Okay. But there's whole sites dedicated just to bartering. Yeah. And bartering services, that's got to be included. Yeah. Emily actually does that. I didn't know that. Yeah. She'll trade. She's been getting her hair done in exchange for soap. Yeah. And actually the craft scene, the indie craft scene, this like, that's all they do is trade. Right. Like, I'll give you

this kid's jumper for a bottle of lotion. And this is, you know, bartering is pretty old, but a resurgence in bartering isn't new. There was actually an explosion in the late 70s of barter clubs. Not to be confused with racquetball clubs or swingers clubs, which are both also huge in the late 70s. Yeah. These were barter clubs. Really? Yeah. They were around for a little while. So people meet and swap things? I think it was mail order. Oh, yeah. Okay. But when you take a look at these clubs then and today, what you described Emily doing is pure bartering. Right. But, you know, one of the big limitations of bartering, well, two of the big limitations are geographic boundaries. Yeah. Right. Sure. Which the internet overcomes because, you know, some guy

in Tacoma has something you need and is willing to ship it and then you have something he needs, geographic boundaries gone. Right. Done. But the timing thing is still a problem. So what barter clubs and barter websites have come up with is if the person doesn't have anything to give you right then, they can trade you in credits. Yeah, I didn't know that was going on. That's kind of cool. That's money. Yeah, in a way. No, that's currency. That's it. Think about a dollar bill. It's a credit. It's a promissory note. It doesn't hold any inherent value. Yeah, but only within that network is it currency. Like, it's not like you can take those credits out to McDonald's. They'll say no, totally. You can't, but it's still currency. Yeah. Yeah. Sure. Right. So like,

within that barter network, it's still, they're still using currency. It's just so difficult to get past, you know, the necessity for currency. Yeah. That's a good point. Yeah. It's a big sham, then. Just kidding. You were talking about the craft scene being like huge and bartering, right? They love it. Marketing is as well. Like, business barters way more than I ever realized. Yeah, sure. I have a staff for you, if I may. Oh, yeah. Yeah. In 2008, North American companies, not even internationally, but North American companies bartered $12 billion in goods and services. Wow. Yeah. And apparently that was partially a result of the recession, because in 2001, they did like $7.75 billion. But still, it's a substantial amount of stuff

that was traded either in the form of goods or services, right? Yeah. People striking a deal, like Chico's bail bonds will sponsor your baseball team and they'll pay for your jerseys if you put Chico's bail bonds on the back. Yes. Which they will eventually. In the case of the Yankees, do you remember who their sponsor was? The bad news fairs? Denny's. Was it really? Yeah, I just saw it the other day. And I went, huh, Denny's. They were a high profile team. Oh, well, they got a high profile sponsor. We were talking about the recession accounting for an increase among businesses. One of the great things about bartering is it saves your cash to pay down debt or to keep workers on the payroll. Yeah, cash was always

good for business. Yeah. So that's why corporations do it. People do it in times of crisis, which was the case. Well, it's part of the case right now. There's been a huge resurgence in consumer bartering, right? Because of the economy? Yeah. But in Argentina, in I think 2008, 2009, their economy was really in shambles and there were bartering clubs everywhere. Well, yeah. And in places where there's natural disasters, a lot of times the first thing they will turn to is bartering, at least in a temporary sense, till they can kind of get things restored. Yeah. Yeah. Because I don't know, the end of the world, what's that dollar bill going to do for you? You know, I read almost that same phrase on a post-collapse blog, a survival blog.

Really? And the guy was rambling off items that'll be good for bartering. That was me. Dollar bill is not among them. No, of course not. No. The war on drugs impacts everyone, whether or not you take drugs. America's public enemy, number one, is drug abuse. This podcast is going to show you the truth behind the war on drugs. They told me that I would be charged for conspiracy to distribute 2,200 pounds of marijuana. Yeah, and they can do that without any drugs on the table. Without any drugs, of course, yes, they can do that. And I'm a prime example of that. The war on drugs is the excuse our government uses to get away with absolutely insane stuff. Stuff that'll piss you off.

The property is guilty, exactly. And it starts as guilty. It starts as guilty. Cops. Are they just, like, looting? Are they just, like, pillaging? They just have way better names for what they call, like, what we would call a jackmove or being robbed. They call civil acid for it. Be sure to listen to the war on drugs on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Nikki Lynette, the host of About a Girl, here to tell you about our new season. Every episode of About a Girl digs deep to explore the real stories of women who were there,

playing an important role in the creation of classic, beloved music. For every story you might think you know, there's always another side. Claudia Lanier sang with Ike and Tina Turner, George Harrison and Bob Dylan, but she also inspired songs by David Bowie, The Rolling Stones, and Leon Russell. Sharon Osborn is a household name today, but she toiled for years under the sway of her violent criminal father before a turbulent marriage to Ozzie very nearly killed her. Shirley and Willie Nelson, Shantae Brody and Snoot, even Beyonce. I'm excited to tell you all about them on About a Girl, season four. Listen to About a Girl on the iHeart radio app,

Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. IRS, Josh? Let's talk about that, because if you think, hey, this is a great way to skirt taxes, I can trade my haircut for my homemade soap all day long. Yeah. Am I outing myself now? Is IRS going to audit us now? Yeah. Because, you know, you're supposed to report this stuff. Yeah, those barter clubs from the late 70s actually ruined it for everybody. Time was, you could barter everything and not pay a cent of taxes on it. But the barter club that the artificial economy created by the barter clubs

reached about an estimated $200 million in size, and the IRS went, we want some of that. Yeah, of course they did. So they reformed the tax code in 1980 and came up with the 1099B form, Proceeds from Broker and Barter Exchange Transactions. And if you're bartering, you have to, both parties have to fill one of these out, create like an estimated market value of the goods or service, and pay it. I know. Pay. You know, when Emily first brought that form home, filled it out and went, what is this? Yet another form. She said, yeah, you can't trade. You got to pay the piper. Yeah. And the piper is the IRS.

Yeah, it certainly is, Josh. But that's not necessarily, well, that's a bad thing. But the IRS, you can also write stuff off that you have traded. Yeah. So it goes the other way a little bit too, and we would be remiss to not mention that. Yeah. You can write off as an expense something you trade because it's value and it's lost, and you didn't get any money for it, which is how the tax system set up. If you're not getting any money for it, it's different than stuff that you're getting money for. Well, and they point out that if you get one of those trade credits,

you could donate that trade credit to a charity and write that off if that charity will accept a trade credit. I've never heard of these trade credits. I've got to look into that. It's money. I mean, is it a point value they assign, I wonder? Yeah. They actually say it's worth this many dollars. Well, one that I came across, Dibspace, has something called Dibbitz in their trade credits. That's cute. Money, and one Dibbitz worth of dollar. So it's money based on money in a bartering network.

Well, money, did we ever say that money, inflation, that's one of the downsides of currency? We didn't say it, but go ahead. Well, yeah, I mean, that's the big deal. You buy a peck of bushel of peaches one year for 10 bucks, and the next year, that might buy you 10 peaches. That's the downside to money. Although, I suppose that could happen bartering, too. They could just say, rough peach crop this year, now I'll only trade you this many for your cow. Sure. Yeah. I would think relative value would be affected by supply and demand. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, that makes sense. I would think it wouldn't happen on such a widespread level, though. I mean, think about how many people are affected by the dollar bill and its fluctuations, right? Yeah. Think about how many people are affected by a local peach crop. True. And that's actually one of the things that barter systems are so appealing to people these days. There's such a movement toward local economies. A barter system can't be sustained by a country of 300 million people now. So basically, everybody has to split up.

Yeah. I read an essay about how secessionism could save the U.S. and that if we don't break up, we're in big trouble. Really? Yeah. That any non-authoritarian system of government can't be sustained or adequately administered in populations over, I think, either 3 million or 30 million. Wow. Yeah. It's pretty cool. I was in the Autney Reader last month.

Oh, I get that. I'll have to check that out. It was the one with March Simpson as Rosie of the River. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. It's pretty cool. I'll check that out. So are we done? I'm done. You got anything else? That's it for me.

If you want to hear mention of Kyle McDonald, the kid we mentioned in the House Swapping podcast, a little prematurely, I guess, who tried to paperclip for a house. Yeah, he had to pay taxes on that. He had to. I'm sure. I hope so. Maybe Corbin Bernstein paid one. If you want to see a picture of that kid, you can type in barter at the search bar at howstuffworks.com. And that brings up, of course, listener. Josh, I'm going to call this one of two eventual mafia letters that we got. We got very many. Who knew?

By letters, Chuck means broken thumbs. Yeah. Sitting little boxes. Yeah, who knew? So many people are connected to the mafia. A lot of people had stories to tell. Yeah. I think it's also like saying, like, who has Native American? Yeah, I do a little bit, I think.

So we're going to read two of those, one of them right now and one on the following episode. And this is from Calvin. This is pretty interesting. Calvin the Mafioso. Yeah, Calvin the Mafioso. I just listened to the episode about the mafia, and I have a couple of things to say. Firstly, I am grossly disappointed in both Josh and Chuck for talking about Joe Valici and not once mentioning the greatest Simpson episode ever, Homie the Clown. I was disappointed about this one, too.

Yeah, in which Homer disguised as Krusty gets captured by Fat Tony and the Springfield family and tried to convince them that he is all different kinds of people, Joe Valici being one of them. I didn't make that connection. I remember, he's like, I'm not Homer, I'm Joe Valici. He goes, Joe Valici the Rat, and he's like, no, something like that. He said, if you did mention it, then shame on the editor, Jerry, for removing it. So let's just go with that.

Yeah, let's go with that one. Jerry, shame on you, Jerry Boo. Boo, piss. Also, I thought you guys would be interested to hear some hypotheses about why it is called the mafia. One says that during the war of the Sicilian Vespers, a woman found her daughter at the Vespers being raped by French soldiers and then ran through the streets shouting, mafia, mafia, which is a dialectical translation of my daughter, my daughter, mafia. Did the mafia come to her rescue or what?

I don't know. That's just what he says. Sicilian. I mean, I don't think he's making this up. It's a theory. I'm sorry, hypothesis. The second hypothesis is also a remnant of the occupation of Sicily by the French. The word mafia might be an anagram for morta, a la, francia, italia, and ele,

a, which translates into something like Italy longs for the death of France. Yeah. M-A-F-I-A. I don't know about that, but they both sound pretty plausible to me. So I guess the word mafia doesn't mean anything. It's not a family name or anything like that. I don't know. I never really thought about the origin of the name.

We didn't cover that. No. So these are two hypotheses from Calvin. He says both of these came from a book called The Secret Society's Handbook by Michael Bradley. It might be complete baloney because I'm not sure how reliable that book is, but it sure is interesting. I thought you might like it. Very cool.

Thank you. Who was that? Calvin. Calvin, the mafioso. Of course. Thank you, Calvin, the mafioso for writing in, and we want to hear from you guys too. So we would urge you to send us an email if you have something to trade. We want to hear about it.

Wrap it up, spank it on the bottom, and send it to StuffPodcast at HowStuffWorks.com. For more on this and thousands of other topics, visit HowStuffWorks.com. To learn more about the podcast, click on the podcast icon in the upper right corner of our homepage. The How Stuff Works iPhone app has arrived. Download it today on iTunes. Brought to you by the Reinvented 2012 Camry. It's ready. Are you? The war on drugs is the excuse our government uses to get away with absolutely insane stuff. Stuff that'll piss you off. The cops, are they just like looting?

Are they just like pillaging? They just have way better names for what they call, like what we would call a jack move or being robbed. They call civil asset. Be sure to listen to the war on drugs on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to Crash Course, a podcast about business, political, and social disruption, and what we can learn from it. I'm Tim O'Brien. Every week on Crash Course, I'm going to bring listeners directly into the arenas where epic upheavals occur, and I'm going to explore the lessons we can learn when creativity and ambition

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