Stuff You Should Know - How can some centenarians lead unhealthy lives?

Episode Date: April 7, 2009

You'd think that centenarians -- people age 100 and older -- would owe their longevity to healthy habits, but that's not always the case. Tune in to this podcast from HowStuffWorks.com to learn more about genes, longevity and unhealthy habits. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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They just have way better names for what they call, like what we would call a jackmove or being robbed. They call civil acid. Be sure to listen to the war on drugs on the iHeart Radio App, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Brought to you by the reinvented 2012 Camry. It's ready. Are you? Welcome to Stuff You Should Know from HowStuffWorks.com. Hey and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's Chuck Bryant. It's freezing in here. It's not that cold. You need to put on a sweater or something.

Well, I didn't expect it to be chilly. It is a little chilly. Our producer Jerry's wearing a hooded sweatshirt in the vest. It's kind of a dead giveaway, Chuck. Well, she's stylish that way. She is. She is. So everybody, if you haven't figured out by now, this is Stuff You Should Know. And Chuck and I are going to talk about death. It's part of our death suite. Kind of, yeah. Yeah, we just realized. Everest, Bizarre, and then this one. And if you don't know what we're talking about, it means that they've been published out of order. So just look forward to a lot of death from SYSK. Right? Yes. Okay. So Chuck, I'm pretty sure you're fully aware that I don't lead a very healthy life. Yes, I know that. I have certain vices that are disgusting and suicidal. Right?

Yeah. You smoke. That's one of many. Yeah. Basically, I shouldn't be walking around right now. Right. And I've come to kind of take hope in someone who's become one of my personal heroes, a woman named Madame Jean Clement. Right. And Madame Clement was a French woman, as her name would indicate. Right. And she, in 1997, she died happy and healthy and 122 years old. Yeah, amazing. And the greatest part about Madame Clement is that she smoked until she was 100. I know. So I've got, what, 68 more years before I have to quit if, you know, I want to possibly live to 122. Quit to live another 22 years. Right. And there are caveats to that. Yes. Right. You know, I plan on raging against the dying of the light unless,

you know, I get like a terminal cancer diagnosis or there's something that I'm not going to be able to get out of. And it equals like horrible death. And then, yeah, I'm not going to go easy. Wow. No, actually, no, the opposite. I'm going to go very easy, but it'll be by my own hand. Right. Yeah. So that's my plan. But I'd rather live to 122 and just, you know, have the AFP take photos of me and post them on Getty images. That kind of thing. Yeah. You just want to be 100 with the smoke in your hand. Yeah. Totally. And be like, don't smoke kids. It's really bad for you. Right. My grandmother lived to be 100. Did she? Yeah. You know what that makes her, right? Yeah. 100 years old. Yes. There's another word for that. Is it Centurion?

That's very close. Did she combat people and call us or anything? No. Centenarian. Centenarian. Anybody who lives to age 100 or older is automatically a Centenarian. Right. She passed away between 100 and 101. Good for her. Yeah. She made it to this Centenarian status. Yes. So was she a healthy person? Did she lead a healthy life? Yeah. I mean, she was from the South. And so she ingested a lot of grease and fried foods over her life, but she didn't drink and she didn't smoke. Gotcha. She, you know, grew on vegetables, stuff like that. Yeah. Now, that's generally the rule of thumb. If you're going to lead a very long life, especially a healthy long life, there's certainly like you can't drink. You can't smoke. You have

to foreswear a lot of stuff. Right. So basically, you can lead a long, healthy, boring life. Right? Yeah. But there's people like Madame Clement who kind of fly in the face of this notion. Right. Like, she should have been dead many, many years before she did die. Right. From lung cancer. Lung cancer, heart disease. Anthesine. Any number of things. And she wasn't. So that kind of leads us to this question of how could people like her, and she's not the only one. She's definitely a rarity. Right. But she's not the only person who's lived that led a slightly unhealthy life, but lived a very long, healthy one. So how is this possible? Right? There's actually a field of research, aging research dedicated to longevity. So it's not dumb luck.

They're trying to figure out there's got to be something to this. Yeah. Yeah. And the weird thing is, is I have a pretty high chance of actually making it a lot longer than I should. Although I should probably insert here, as you know, the death clock gives me till 2041. Right. But a gypsy once, I'm sorry, a Roma once read my poem and told me I had till 87. So I'm not sure which one's right. I think I'm going to go with the Roma later. Well, what would the other one put you at? That's death clock. 65, I think. Well, maybe between 65 and 87. That's pretty good. Well, the thing is, is if I, if I make it to 65, I'm, that's not very long. Yeah. 87 is definitely long. Right. But I think if you look at it in

perspective by the time I'm 87, 87 will probably be like 65 as now. True. Either way, I'm going down, I can tell. Yeah. But you look like you're 122. So, right. Exactly. So how did we get on this one? Yeah, I need you to leave me back there, buddy. Well, we need to go back. It's jeans, Josh. Oh, no. First, first, yes, they're pretty sure that it is jeans. It's surely there's a genetic cause and the whole reason why there's pretty much evidentiary proof that, that jeans do play a role is that there's whole families of centenarians. And if, if, if genetics didn't play a major role in longevity, then the, the probability of a family having like three or four, um, centenarians is like astronomically unlikely. Right. So yes, jeans play a role,

but there's another mechanism that the kind of a physiological mechanism. Ah, the starvation. Yeah. Right. Yeah. A restricted caloric intake. Right. And that's going to say that's proven, right? It is. Well, just, you know, just by through observation and studies in like worms and I think rats. Yeah. Yeast. Yeast rats and worms. Which is a fun guy, not a plant, by the way. We've learned many times over. Yeah. But the rats in particular are the ones who are really kind of giving up the secrets of what genes might lie behind us. But you want to talk about a caloric restricted diet first and what, what happens with that? Well, yeah, they found out they did some, uh, like you were talking about tests on rats and they found that, uh, the rats ate 40% fewer

calories than their beefy counterparts, uh, called, uh, caloric restriction. Uh, they live longer. So, and healthier, evidently longer and healthier. Yeah. Uh, part of it is, uh, leanness leads to, um, longevity and health generally. Right. That is, although our body has a mechanism for storing it in, uh, in the lean times, if you'll forgive me. Right. Um, it's actually not very good for us. Right. We make much better use of carbohydrates and proteins, um, and other nutrients. Um, that's kind of like at the, it's, it's the, uh, bottom of the barrel nutrient, right? Right. I know when I was doing my survival, uh, work in the, how long can you live without food and water, that kind of thing, that when you start to starve, your fats are the first

thing to go, then carbohydrates and the proteins, which means that's your body itself. Right. So, um, so we know that, uh, uh, a caloric restricted diet is a good thing, but we just, what, what longevity researchers are trying to figure out is exactly how this keeps us, um, right, healthy and alive. The mechanism behind it. Right. So one, one of the genes that's been studied is the, uh, SIRT one gene. That's a good one. And it's my favorite of the longevity genes. Yes. Well, mind the other one and we'll get to that. Okay. Well, which, by the way, I've dubbed, uh, the Ponsa de Leon gene. Did you like that? Did you notice that in the article? That was all Josh. I believe it. Okay. So, um, the SIRT one gene, uh, actually curiously, uh, was studied by

two independent studies, uh, one at Harvard and one at MIT, and they both published their findings in June, 2004, within like 16 days of one another. Yeah. It kind of makes me wonder if they were, you know, looking on each other's test paper. Can't you see like some egg heads like huddled over like the study? Um, so, uh, what one of them found was that the SIRT one gene inhibits the expression of this protein called backs, right? No matter whether your cells are doing well or damaged, they have a specific lifetime. Right. A lifespan. Right. They're, they have a lifespan and they could be healthy as an ox, but once they reach this, the end of this lifespan, um, this protein backs comes in and actually creates a Poptosis and a Poptosis is,

um, programmed cellular death. Like it's an execution. Wow. Now what SIRT one does is it prevents the expression of backs, right? And so therefore it grants cells a stay of execution so they can keep working longer. And it's ultimately cellular death that, that leads to death from old age, right? Non-disease, non-environmental factors, but just your cells stop dividing and reproducing and that's really sad when you think about it. Right. So the SIRT one gene has been shown to produce that, right? But it also, um, it also, uh, creates a, um, a process where fat is shed more quickly. So you become leaner, right? Basically with a reduced calorie diet, your body enters survival mode and SIRT one really comes into play. But as you said, you have another

favorite gene which indicates that there's, that's not the only gene involved in this. No. And, and all likelihood there's probably more than one gene involved at a time as well. Yeah. There's, there's a guy who's conducting a study in Massachusetts on longevity and he, he says probably about, uh, 8,000 genes are responsible for it. Is that Dawkins? Of course. No, that's, uh, Pearls, I believe is his name. We'll get to Dawkins too, right? Yeah. Oh yeah. Promise me. I promise. Okay. Uh, my favorite gene, Josh, in this category is, I don't know how you would say it, FOXO3A, FOXO3A. I like FOXO3A. Yeah. That's what we'll call it. And, uh, that when they tested on worms and it had a definite effect on the lifespan of a worm,

they were able to turn this gene on and off by adding, uh, compounds that, uh, basically target and shut down these specific genes. Yeah. They're called the gene silencing compounds. They've used them to create tierless onions. Oh really? Yeah. Oh, I need to get some of those. This stuff kills me. I know. Prepare to pay 17 bucks an onion though, pal. Really? Oh, genetic research didn't come cheap. Oh yeah. I guess I'll just fry as I cook. Uh, so, um, yeah, they found out when they had this gene turned on, the worms lived a lot longer. So, uh, they also found that the same gene was in a lot of elderly Japanese. Mm-hmm. And Okinawa has the largest concentration per capita of centenarians than anywhere else in the world and centurions. Right. Yeah. They're

still running around. Uh, and they also found it in elderly Germans. So that kind of proved that it's not, you know, drawn along, uh, continental or racial bounds. Right. Right. Uh, and there's, there's, there's another, um, there's another gene. It's the, uh, uh, insulin growth factor one gene. IGF one. Yeah. Good one. And they found that in a, um, in a population of, uh, Ashkenazi Jews. You know what those are? Look that up. I, I know. Apparently they're, uh, Jewish people that, from medieval Jewish people in Western Germany. So. Gotcha. Direct descendants of that line. I got you. All right. Yeah. I knew that they were a very specific, um, um, group. Right. Uh, but they, they found in women, uh, in this group that the IGF one gene had a

mutation and IGF one, uh, is, uh, partly responsible for creating growth hormone. Uh, okay. And these women are generally small in stature as well. Right. Um, and one of the researchers who conducted the study on them, I just found this kind of flawed logic. I mean, it makes sense, but sometimes biologists, geneticists, and, uh, you know, evolutionists make certain leaps. They go from A to C without hitting B. Right. As we like to say. Yep. Which I've done before. Yeah. I was not mad at you by the way. Um, so this one researcher posited that, you know, because they're smaller, they're living longer and a pony lives longer than a horse. And I was, I don't know, for some reason that just, I was like, back that up, dude. Right. You know, um, but I think the more likely explanation

is that, um, cancer has been shown to be fueled by growth hormones. Right. So if you're producing less, that would make you to believe that you're, you have less of a likelihood of, of dying of cancer. Right. That's an A to C I can get behind. Right. Now the, the, the problem is, is this shouldn't just express itself in women, this mutation or should it. In 1968, five black girls dressed in oversized military fatigues were picked up by the police in Montgomery, Alabama. I was tired and just didn't want to take it anymore. The girls had run away from a reform school called the Alabama industrial school for Negro children. And they were determined to tell someone about the abuse they'd suffered there. Picture the worst environment for children

that you possibly can. I didn't understand why I had to go through what I was going through and for what I'm writer and reporter, Josie Duffy Rice. And in a new podcast, I investigate how this reform school went from being a safe haven for black kids to a nightmare and how those five black girls changed everything. All that on unreformed. Listen to unreformed on the I heart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. In 1980, cocaine was captivating and corrupting Miami. Miami had become the murder capital of the United States. They were making millions of dollars. I would categorize it as the Wild Wild West. Unleashing a wave of violence. My God took a walk into the devil's den. The car fells. They just killed everybody that was home.

They start pulling out pictures of Clay Williams body taken out in the Everglades. A world orbiting around a mysterious man with a controversial claim. This drug pilot by the name of Lamar Chester. He never ran anything but grass until I turned over that load of coke to him on the island. Chester would claim he did it all for this CIA. Pulling many into a sprawling federal investigation. So Clay wasn't the only person who was murdered? Oh, no, not by a long shot. I'm Lauren Bright Pacheco. Join me for Murder in Miami. Listen to Murder in Miami on the I heart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Let's talk about Richard Dawkins. Right. Zoologists. Yes. Yes. He has a theory that or perhaps a hypothesis as we've been corrected.

Not the same thing. That everything that can reproduce basically is only a vessel for its genes for carrying out, you know, and putting your genes in your son or daughter. And then that goes on and their son or daughter. And it's a vessel, essentially. Right. We're basically like a yeah, we're a vessel for a genetic line. Right. Almost so disturbing to look at it like this, but almost like a parasite. You know what I'm saying? Like everything we're doing, every flaw we have, every, every good thing that's going on with us is genetic, right? And then we die, but our genetic line gets passed on. It surely does. So if you look at it like that, then genes would only be concerned with getting us to reproduction age. Right. And they wouldn't care

whether or not you live long. Right. That they wouldn't concern itself with the evolutionarily speaking. It's pretty interesting. But the thing is, is there is a case you could make for women having longevity genes, but not men. Well, so they could reproduce longer. Yeah, they would have a healthier lifespan and thus their reproductive age would be greater. So they could produce more offspring and genetic line would, would have even more of a chance of survival. Yeah, sure. But women only produce, reproduce for what, like half their life roughly. I don't, I don't think even that say like 15 to what 50. Oh, well, that's true. Yeah. I was just thinking about the end date. Actually, that's probably about half a lifetime. Sure. Yeah, depending on who you are. Although

50, I don't even know if you could do that. That's probably kind of a freak occurrence if you're 15 and have a kid. Yeah, I think anything over 40 is, isn't always guaranteed. Yeah. And medically speaking, even 35 is considered high risk pregnancy today in the 21st century. True. Yeah. So that's Dawkins position. And the OBGYN Ruth Fetz was the one who posited that hypothesis. Right. The explanation of why women would have a longevity gene and not men. Clearly, though, we don't really have an idea yet. Or else we, we, this podcast would have been much shorter. We would have said it's the FOXO 3A gene. Right. You know, it could be, it could have a part, it could be, but I think more likely it's, it's a bunch of genes working

together. I think you're right. Yeah. And once we figure it out, we're going to figure out how to harness it. We're all going to be walking around at 125, getting in boxing matches with kangaroos still. Were you going to mention the Hayflick limit? Cause I thought that was kind of cool. Sure. You kind of talked about it earlier, but I didn't know this until I'd read the article. You were talking about cells having a shelf life basically until they can die out or as many times as they can, can split. Right. And the Hayflick limit. Dr. Hayflick, Leonard Hayflick noticed that 50 times is the number. Yeah. That a cell can, can split and then it stops. Right. But he also figured out that if you take an old cell and put a young nucleus in it, it'll keep going.

Which is also very cool. Right. And then as it, as it reaches closer and closer to that 50, 50 division limit, it starts to slow down or more and then it finally gets to 50 and stops. But yeah, you can, you can replace the nucleus and it will jam on it. Interesting. Yeah. Much like a old man goes after a younger woman. Let's go out on a morality tale, Chuck. I think that's a good idea. Okay. You want to talk about old Tom Parr? Old Tom Parr. Is that actually how he's known? Actually, they knew him as old Parr, but yeah, Tom Parr.

Okay. Yeah, but old Tom Parr. Yeah. I could, I could hardly believe this, but since you came up with it, I will believe it. Parr was 100. I'm sorry. He was born in 1483. So we need to point out that at the time in 1483, your lifespan was what, 30, 32? Yeah. Something like that. That's what I read. Yeah. He lived as a single man until he was 80. So he more than doubled his lifespan already, which is amazing. And then he got married and started having kids at 80. Yeah. And at 100, he apparently fathered an illegitimate child with another woman.

Yeah. He was publicly chastised. He was three times the age at this point almost and he had an illegitimate child. Yeah. Yeah. He was killing it basically. Right. Everybody else is just dying around him. And he's fathering illegitimate children at age 100, right? And he actually, he became fairly well known in England, as you can imagine. His birth date is tentative, but they're pretty sure based on the age that he supposedly entered the service that he was born around 1483.

So yeah. And they know exactly when he died. So even if it was off, it couldn't have been off by not too terribly much 20 or 40 years. No, no, nothing like that. So, so this guy, he was asked many times like what his secret was. And he was like a real salt of the earth farmer who liked to, you know, father illegitimate children. Sure. But he, he ate like a very steady diet. He drank not meat. I guess he drank ale fairly regularly,

but he bribed in cider only on special occasions. Right. I guess cider was a lot stronger back then. The hard stuff. Yeah. And he just kind of lived as much of a healthy life as people lived in the, what, 15th, 16th and 17th century. The guy made it to see three centuries, right? Unbelievable. What got him was at the age of 152, this, this courtier who had fallen out of grace with King

Charles decided he was going to get back in the King's good graces by bringing Old Tom Parr to court. Right. And basically parading him around like, check this whole guy. Oh, he's 152. It's a very bad idea. So Old Tom Parr, this is his first taste of like court life. And basically he parties like a rock star for two weeks dead. And I mean, you think 152 now is just unthinkable. Yeah.

And this is when the average life span was 32 years. So I can't even imagine. He must have been, that was a terrible idea. It was. And you have to imagine like the King Charles and this disgraced courtier. I mean, like it's almost like ending up with some sort of thrill kill cult and then, you know, dying because you weren't, you're totally out of like your, your league, you know, kind of thing. Like, did they feel bad that they killed Old Tom Parr by getting him wasted and feeding him

pig and duck and stuff he had never eaten before? So. Yeah, I bet they did. Yeah, I can't tell. In 1968, five black girls dressed in oversized military fatigues were picked up by the police in Montgomery, Alabama. I was tired and just didn't want to take it anymore. The girls had run away from a reform school called the Alabama Industrial School for Negro

Children. And they were determined to tell someone about the abuse they'd suffered there. Picture the worst environment for children that you possibly can. I believe Mt. Mays was patterned after slavery. I didn't understand why I had to go through what I was going through and for what. I'm writer and reporter, Josie Duffy Rice, and in a new podcast, I investigate how this reform school went from being a safe haven for black kids to a nightmare and how those five black girls changed everything.

All that on unreformed. Listen to unreformed on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. In 1980, cocaine was captivating and corrupting Miami. Miami had become the murder capital of the United States. They were making millions of dollars. I would categorize it as the Wild Wild West. Unleashing a wave of violence. My God, talking about walking into the devil's den.

The car fells. They just killed everybody that was home. They start pulling out pictures of Clay Williams' body taken out in the Everglades. A world orbiting around a mysterious man with a controversial claim. This drug pilot by the name of Lamar Chester. He never ran anything but grass until I turned over that load of coke to him on the island. Chester would claim he did it all for the CIA. Pulling many into a sprawling federal investigation.

So Clay wasn't the only person who was murdered? Oh no, not by a long shot. I'm Lauren Bright Pacheco. Join me for Murder in Miami. Listen to Murder in Miami on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm curious. I wonder if the history books write about stuff like that. Well, let's find out, Chuck.

Yeah, we'll check it out. We'll give an update. And we will follow up. Yeah. Well, there's plenty more to read. All you have to do is type in some of the world's oldest people, or old and unhealthy, in the handy search bar at HowStuffWorks.com. So, Chuck, let's...

Did you know, I have a question for you. Did you know that if you, my friend, went onto iTunes right now, and typed in super stuffed two words into their search bar, our spoken word album would come up? Spoken word album? We have a spoken word album, Chuck. I know that you were kind of zonked for a while while we were doing this. We had to prop them up like a dope monkey.

But he did a great job, regardless. I appreciate that. I can only imagine if we get to do another one, which is largely contingent on how many we sell of this one, that if you're not doped up, we will be able to really excel at it. I don't appreciate that. Yeah, so you want to talk about it for a second? Sure, it's called the Stuff You Should Know,

Super Stuffed Guide to the Economy. That's right. And Josh and I talk about economics on a broad level and on a small level. Granular. Granular level. And we kind of break it down for the everyday Joe that doesn't really understand what's going on in the world of economics. Which makes sense, because we're everyday Joe's.

You got it. Or layman, I think, as we've put it before. We are. Yeah, so it's up for what, $3.99? $3.99. It's an hour long, it's got all sorts of bells and whistles. Interviews? Yeah, there's professional or expert interviews.

So yeah, it's not just like our regular podcast times four. It's exponentially better. Right. We get out of the studio, which is nice for us. Yeah, I think we cut out a lot of us. Yes. Which is vastly different from our regular podcast. It's much more professional.

Uh, so yeah, there's our plug for our audio book. The Stuff You Should Know, Super Stuffed Guide to the Economy. $3.99 on iTunes right now. If you want to buy it, we won't be mad at you. We'd love you. And I'm thinking, you want to talk about the blog? Sure, Josh. Let's talk about the blog.

OK. It's been up for a few weeks now, maybe a month. And we're starting to get some good interaction from the fan. It's nice. It is nice. I do a little blog podcast recap on Fridays. And so if you hear something on Tuesday or Thursday that strikes your fancy, just log on to the blog and leave a comment and Josh and I will chat it up with you.

And yeah, it's been cool. Yeah, that is cool. And you can find it through the homepage at HowStuffWorks.com over on the right side there. Yeah, it has our mugs alternately. Alternate mugs. Yeah. So yeah, check it out, right? OK.

So Chuck, what's about the blogs? Is it time for Listener Mail? It is indeed. Josh, this one comes to us from a postal service worker named Scott and he's from Pismo Beach, California. OK. And remember we did our thing on junk mail? Yes.

And how awful and evil it is? Oh, yes. Turns out junk mail is actually keeping the postal service in business to a large degree. Yeah. And this is something we never consider. And that's why we wanted to read this because sometimes there's another side of the coin that that we don't really realize. And this is definitely the case.

Yeah. Josh and Chuck, you guys feel like a couple of old poker buddies to me. Very nice way to kick going there, Scott. I'm writing in response to junk mail. I'm a letter carrier for the U.S. Postal Service. And I can assure you that on a superficial level, I hate junk mail even more than you. I sometimes loathe having to mess with all that seemingly useless garbage on a daily basis. However, it is a huge source of revenue for the Postal Service.

And surprisingly, it does provide a substantial return for advertisers. In these increasingly difficult, difficult economic times, we postal employees are becoming concerned about the future of our jobs. Mail volume has dropped rapidly in the so-called junk mail is providing us with much needed business. If it were to disappear, so would all of our jobs. So before you can call an all out assault on this admittedly minor annoyance, please take a moment to reconsider. I'm willing to put up a little mailbox clutter to keep alive one of our nation's oldest and most important professions from Scott.

And Giddy up, Scott. Giddy up, Scott. And I believe just last week, the Postal Service announced a lot of layoffs. Oh, yeah. And this was just a few days ago. So I think we're responsible for it. I don't think so. I hope not.

So what we'll tell people then, junk mail apparently is keeping the Postal Service open. So do your best to recycle it and deal with things that way. If you want to be taken off a list, you can be taken off a list. But we can't completely stop junk mail or else there would be no more Pony Express. It also makes for really good artwork, too. Right, Chuck? Yeah. Well, if you want to give us another perspective on reality, you can dose us by sending an email

to stuffpodcastathowstuffworks.com. For more on this and thousands of other topics, visit howstuffworks.com. Brought to you by the reinvented 2012 Camry. It's ready. Are you? The War on Drugs is the excuse our government uses to get away with absolutely insane stuff, stuff that'll piss you off. The cops, are they just, like, looting? Or are they just, like, pillaging?

They just have way better names for what they call, like, what we would call a jackmove, or being robbed. They call civil acid. Be sure to listen to The War on Drugs on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On the new podcast, The Turning Room of Mirrors, we look beneath the delicate veneer of American Ballet and the culture formed by its most influential figure, George Balangene. He used to say, what are you looking at, dear?

You can't see you, only I can see you. What you're doing is larger than yourself, almost like a religion. Like, he was a god. Listen to The Turning Room of Mirrors on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.