Stuff You Should Know - How Caving Works

Episode Date: November 30, 2012

Entrances to the underworld have been places of wonder for eons, and humans have ventured into caves to sleep, hunt, create art and explore. Thanks to the hobby of caving, that tradition continues today. Bonus: Chuck discusses his caving experience. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Flooring contractors agree. When looking for the best to care for hardwood floors, use Bona Hardwood Floor Cleaner. The residue-free, fast drying solution is specially designed for hardwood floors, delivering the safe and effective clean you trust. Bona Hardwood Floor Cleaner is available at most retailers where floor cleaning products are sold and on Amazon. Also available for your other hard surface floors like Stone, Tile, Laminate, Vinyl, and LVT. For cleaning tips and exclusive offers, visit Bona.com slash Bona Clean. The War on Drugs is the excuse our government uses to get away with absolutely insane stuff. Stuff that'll piss you off. The cops, are they just like looting? Are they just like pillaging? They just have way better names for what they call,

like what we would call a jack move or being robbed. They call civil acid work. Be sure to listen to the War on Drugs on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to Stuff You Should Know from HowStuffWorks.com. Hey buddy, if you don't mind if I plug my Movember page real quick. Please do. I am growing a moustache this month for Movember for cancer research, specifically male prostate cancer research. That's right. And you can donate to my team, which would be pretty cool because you know, you get a free podcast and that'd be nice to throw a little money toward cancer research.

Chuck's being nice here. Give him some money. He's growing out facial hair to help a charitable organization engage in really important scientific research. That's right. And you can go to mobro.co slash Charles Bryant. And that's my page. Or just go to the Movember site, type in Charles Bryant in the search bar and look for the picture of me. There's only a couple of us out there. Chuck's wearing a red shirt. That's right. Yeah. So what is that again? That's mobro.co slash Charles Bryant. Yes, thank you in advance. Yeah, that's a nice Chuck. All right, let's get to it. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. I'm an emcee of sorts. Not the cool kind, the boring kind. With me is always this emcee Charles W. Chuck Bryant. He's the same kind

of emcee that I am. Sucker emcee? No, no, not even. Okay. We're not even suck emcees. We're too square for that even. So sad. Maybe sucker emcees, but certainly not with an A. Yeah, I'm a sucker. Right, emcee. Yeah, too square to be a sucker. That is a t-shirt. Well, I'll bet it is now. Number two, the square shape. Number two, the letter B. Or two squared, two to the second power. Oh, two squared to be a sucker. Yeah. Oh, that's it. Yep. You pretty, we've reached the point where you say stuff and people make t-shirts of it. One of these though, we're going to hit it rich and we can quit this whole podcasting game. Retire on our t-shirt fortune. Never. Never. We'll be rich old men podcasting still. If only. Hey, Chuck. Hey. Are you doing well? Yeah. You

know, I think I remembered that you actually have done this before, what we're about to talk about. I have. And you had a good time, didn't you? Yeah, I'll be offering my personal insights along the way. Good. I was hoping so. That's what I was getting at. Yeah. Hey, so I read this article in slate. It's called America's Ancient Cave Art. And back in the late 70s, there were a couple of friends who worked for the US Forestry Service and I think Tennessee and they were running around the forest and they found a cave and they started to explore it and they went into it and they noticed like there were all these weird like scratches on the wall and when they looked a little closer like, wait, that's not a scratch. That's a snake with horns and that's a bird that like

is tearing the head off of something else. And one of them luckily realized that these are all images associated with what's called the southeastern ceremonial complex or more coolly named the southern death cult. Yeah. Yeah. Which sprung up around the southeastern United States inexplicably about 1200 years ago. There's like this, what, what the author of the article called a religious outbreak that they have no idea where it came from. But the weird thing about this is that they, these, these drawings were completely preserved like you could still smear the charcoal. Oh, wow. They and even though they were anywhere from 500 and then they found some others that are up to like 6000 years old. And they're all in this enormous elaborate cave system in the southeastern

United States specifically the Cumberland Plateau in Tennessee. Yeah. But what's most remarkable aside from their preservation is that some of these are like a mile into the cave. Wow. So some of the Mississippian people were running around walking a mile into a cave to like leave this art and it was perfectly preserved. That's pretty cool. Even though almost every other trace of this religious outbreak, the southern death cult is just gone. Wow. Isn't that cool? That's awesome. So I bring that up because that is one of the big reasons that people go caving, which ultimately is entering a cave. Once you walk into a cave you're caving, right? Yeah, I think so. Wasn't southern death cult the original name of the cult, the band? Yes,

it was. And they changed it. Yep. Southern death cult. So much better. Yeah, it's great. Oh, well, I mean, that's one of the coolest names anyone's ever come up with. And it's an archaeological term. Yeah. So it's got, you know, academic meaning as well. Right. All right. Well, aside from the poor name change, I like the band. Yeah, it's a good band. I used to. You don't like them anymore? Well, I mean, it's just that sort of represented like high school to me in early college. They still hold up. Yeah, it's not like I don't like it. I got you. You know, Billy Duffy plays a main guitar. All right. So spelunking, should we go ahead and get this out of the way? That's that's another word for caving. But, um, isn't there an Atari game

named spelunker? I think so. But cavers don't really use that term a lot. They use it derogatorily. Yeah. I think that is the case. I'm trying to remember because I went caving, like you said. Right. Go ahead and set that up for the rest of the show with my former neighbor, who was a fan of the show. Your former neighbor. Did you guys have a spat? We don't talk anymore. I refused to acknowledge his presence. No, he moved. Oh, okay. That's the other way that happened. Yeah. Yeah. He, um, he lived across the street and, um, left a letter in my mailbox one day and was like, Hey, dude, I heard you mentioned it might have been after the biospeleology. Right. Which we'll touch on it again. It said, I'm a experienced caver. Me and my buddy would

love to take you and you guys too. Yeah. Yeah. We were invited originally. It was all four of us. And it ended up being just me. Right. The day came, I was like, let's see. Crawl around in the cold in a cave, get wet and muddy. I'm going to stay home. Boy, after I did it, I was like, I'm so glad Emily and you and me and Josh didn't come because it just, you guys wouldn't like that. Yeah. There's a good picture of you on Facebook where you're covered in mud. Yeah. I'll post more pictures when this comes out. Okay. But, um, yeah, I'll touch on it as we go. But the first thing I want to point out is that a cave can be a thing that you picture when you picture a cave, which is like you're walking along and there's a big huge entrance that you're looking at and

you walk in. Or in this case, it can be a little hole in the ground. Yeah. Which is when I walked by, I was like, that's where we're going. And he was like, yeah. I was like, really? It's like a two foot little hole in the ground. Yeah. It looked like, um, maybe a place where foxes live. Yeah. He's like, no, that's how you get in there. I was like, okay. You're like, that's how you get in there, pal. But it ended up being aside from the most physically challenging thing I've ever done, one of the coolest things I've done. Yeah. It was very difficult. But you, I mean, you nail it on the head. A cave is basically any opening from the surface below ground. Yeah. Into the earth. Right. And, um, for the most part, when we think of a cave, it's part of something called a

karst landscape, uh, which is characterized by like sinkholes, underground aquifers. Yeah. Um, subterranean drainage caves, a cave system that's part of it's technically called a karst landscape. Yeah. And well, once you read that, you kind of take it for granted. But if you never really thought about it, I hadn't never thought about it. I was like, well, why are these caves even here? Right. You know, someone didn't come in here and carve these out. No, but some natural processes. That's right. There's actually, um, four main ways that caves are created. Right. Yeah. Most caves, um, are limestone caves. Uh, and you get those when rainwater, uh, seeps down through the soil, picks up some CO2 along the way. And that forms a carbonic acid,

which is kind of weak. It is. But if you, uh, if you have carbonic acid present in the same area for eons, yeah, it's going to eventually eat away at even stone. Yeah. Like limestone. And that's basically what happens. It either collects there for a long time or is, um, rushed in there by rain and, uh, corrosion. Yeah. Is what happens. It's erosion through abrasion through abrasion just basically rainwater running over something long enough. It's going to erode it. And that is how you get a cave one way. Yeah. That's the, that's the main way. I think, um, you've got, uh, extremophiles, which is kind of cool. We're still, we're starting to realize, you know, I think we talked about them in the, are we all Martians episode? Yeah. We have an article on

extremophiles that I have earmarked for us. Okay. That's pretty good. Um, they are basically bacteria that live and thrive in, um, toxic environments. Yeah. Like places where nothing else lives, right? High sulfuric content and really high temperatures are really, really low temperatures are just, yeah, they're the only things that live there. Um, and they are starting to realize that they have a pretty big impact on cave formation. For example, there's some that, um, like to eat oil underground. I never knew this. And they eat and eat and then they shoot ducks of, uh, sulfide gas, right? And the sulfide gas goes up and up and up as gas wants to do. Yeah. And, uh, it travels through, um, the, through groundwater picks up oxygen and becomes

sulfuric acid. And that really starts to eat away at caves. Yeah. That's probably more so, I think, than carbonic. Yeah. Which is, you probably want to look out for the sulfuric acid lake in a cave system if you're ever caving. I would say so. Yeah. Uh, so that's number two. Um, sea, sea caves, you'll see a lot. Um, if you ever do sea kayaking and stuff around the island, yeah, you might venture into a sea cave. It's pretty cool. Um, they are basically just water pounding away at the seaside cliffs, uh, to the point where they form caves. Yeah. Pretty easy. Yeah. Did you ever see the orphanage, the Guillermo del Toro movie? No. Dude, you've not seen that? I almost watched it last week. That is one of the best ghost movies ever made. Yeah. I was by

myself and I wanted to watch something scary because it was Halloween. Oh, dude, that's it. And I, I had searched around on the internet for like, what's a really good scary movie? Not some crappy scary movie. Yeah. And that was on the list and I ended up searching and researching for so long. I didn't, I didn't watch anything. I went to sleep. You should have asked me or go on to the social medias. Like I did once I was looking for some scary movies and got into a conversation with Joe Randazzo and like a couple other people and ended up with this list of like great horror movies and all of them panned out awesomely. Yeah. Have you seen that? No. Dude, that was another one recommended. I love del Toro too. Dude, it is. Is this like the Spanish

Civil War era or orphanage? No, no, no. That's um, what is that one called? I know the one you're talking about. Devil's Backbone. Yes. I saw that one. That's okay. Compared to the orphanage, it might as well have been like Pee Wee's Playhouse. Hey, I like Pee Wee. No, I mean, as far as light fare goes. Yeah. Okay. All right. It's just so much better. I'm watching it. Yeah. And watch House of the Devil too. It's pretty good. I think you'll like that a lot. Yeah. I don't, I like good scary. I don't like all that crappy, uh, saw like stuff, you know, like shocking torture porn crap. I like the first couple saws. Yeah. All right. So that's the third way that case. Well, that was a good one. The fourth is lava tubes, you know, when lava comes up through a

volcano and it shoots up if the conditions are right, the outer part will cool more quickly than the creamy gooey middle. Yeah. And when that happens, that our shell will come together and form this coherent crust and the stuff in the middle might fall back down. Right. You got yourself a tube. You have a tube of lava. Now, if at the top of this, that that top caves in or crumbles, all of a sudden you have an entrance and the lava tube is now a cave because again, cave is any entry from the above ground to hell. I imagine the lava tube caves are pretty interesting to explore. Yeah. But I'm a limestone guy. Well, I mean, you don't spend much time in Hawaii. If you did, I'll bet you'd be a lava tube guy too. Yeah, you're probably right. All right. So once

you're in the cave, you're going to notice a couple of things straight away. Um, stalactites and stalagmites. Okay. Which is which, man? I feel like we have a golden opportunity here to explain this to thousands and thousands and hundreds of thousands of people. It's very easy. There's a lot of little ways you can remember. Maybe millions of people. Stalactites and that is where the sea are the ones that hang down. And you can remember that by maybe hold on tight. Stalactite. They got to hold on tight. Yeah. Because it's not stalactite and stalactite or stalagmite and stalagmite. It's stalactite. Yeah. With a C and then stalagmite with a G and an M. So that helps too, because you have C for ceiling or G for ground. Great.

Then you just did it or T for top. If that helps you, we give you three ways to remember this. I don't think that we're, I don't, I think I messed it up. This is so simple for a second. And then I I'm sorry, everyone. So stalactites hang down. Stalagmites come up from the bottom. Yeah. They are speliotherms, which is a cave formation. Yeah. And this happens when carbonic acid eats away at the limestone and starts dripping the calcite mineral from rainwater. Yeah. It's just kind of trickling in over centuries. Yeah. And as it is, it's depositing that calcite, right? Yeah. So it drips down from the top. So it forms and then it will, you know, not drip up, but collect and form up from the bottom. Sometimes they'll meet and form a column, which is really cool.

Yeah, it is. But these things grow at a rate of a quarter inch to an inch per century. Wow. So you can't sit around and watch a stalactite form. That is basically the rule of thumb. So the rainwater comes down and drips down and whatever deposits are at the top going down is a stalactite. That's right. And it drips down under the ground and builds a formation that grows up towards the top. Yes. That's a stalagmite. And that's why you usually find them together. And stalacene is actually the Greek derivative. It means to drip. Really? So there you have it. That's great. And they did mention, I look these up because I'd never seen them, other speliotherms like fried eggs and bacon. Did you look these up?

No. It's pretty neat. It looks like a fried egg. I think I've seen that. Yeah, it looks like it's large and round and has a center that's very round as well. Yeah. And then the bacon stuff, it looks like bacon strips. It's like these little strip-like formations that have different colored patterns that look like the fatty part of the bacon or the meaty part. And it looks like fried eggs and bacon. I feel like I saw the fried egg one before. Yeah, you probably have. When I saw it, I was like, oh, that's what that is. Oh, fried eggs and bacon. I had to see it because the name wasn't descriptive enough. Yeah. And this just proves that speliologists are fun, loving people.

So while you're in the cave, you're probably going to run into certain kinds of animals. And as speliologists love to do, they've classified these things into categories, right? Yeah. We talked about these in biospeleology, the creepy cave-dwelling things. Yeah. If you haven't heard that episode, go check it out. It's all about caves and the stuff living in caves. Yeah. It's really cool. But the troglosines, those are temporary visitors, like a bear, maybe hibernating in a cave. They live most of their life outside of the cave and come in for shelter or food or something like that. Yeah. And there's a troglophiles. That means they love the trog. They do. They spend most of their life there. Right. But they will come out

some. For food. Yeah. But they spend most of their lives in the cave, right? Yeah. Salamanders, crickets, flatworms. Daddy longlegs. Yeah. Daddy longlegs and other spiders. Love them. And then there's the troglobites. Yeah. Those are ones who live their entire lives within the dark zone of the cave. And usually they don't have eyes and apparently without exception, they're all blind. Yeah. Like the Prometheus salamander. Yeah. I remember that thing. The Ozark blind salamander, the tooth cave spider, which isn't as creepy looking as it sounds. No. I expected to see like, you know, something out of like a B movie. But it was just like a little skinny spider. Oh, okay. But if you name something, the tooth cave spider expects some like really

scary looking thing. Yeah. Or something with glasses and huge buck teeth. Yeah. Same with the tooth cave beetle. And then they're also blind fish and shrimp and all manner of little white, creepy creatures. Yeah. They lack pigment because they don't need it. Yeah. Like screw pigment. What do we need that for? And then I this kind of stuck out to me the idea that it's always the average annual temperature of the surface above a cave within the cave. Yeah. So if it's the average temperature over the course of an entire year in the spot above a cave is 65 degrees, it's always 65 degrees in the cave. Not true. Oh, that's not true. No. So this this the the temperatures in a cave are very, very stable. But you know, depending on it, how deep it is,

closely you get to the center of the earth, the warmer it gets. So that has an effect. And just like above ground with the sun warming the surface differently causes weather, different amounts of heat in inside a cave cause what we wouldn't recognize as weather, but actual weather itself. So is this wrong? Yes. The way it's stated. It's always the average annual temperature. Yeah. But generally it is. Yeah, it's usually very stable and it's very close to that. But we're finding now that there is actual weather that happens in a cave. Just like there we found out there's seasons on the bottom of the sea, right floor. Like it seems like the same thing to us, but there's actually like seasons and changes that we don't we didn't recognize

because that's where you don't think of it that way. Yeah. Caves sometimes can be dry and dusty. I guess it all depends on where you are in the country. But when I went to and like many caves are wet and muddy, and I was not expecting that. I was not expecting a lot of what I encountered actually. Really? You weren't so were you prepared for a wet money? Oh, yeah. I mean, they told me what to wear and we'll get into all that stuff. But I just I don't know. I thought I was going to be walking into a thing and then walking around sort of like the kid caves that you can take the whole family to. Right. But um, yeah, I wasn't like that at all. It was being dropped into a muddy wet cold hell. Yeah. And you looked like it too, man. Afterward. Yeah. I was

beat up. You look like you were really glad to be topside again. It was weird coming out. I'll say that. So why did you go? Why would anybody go? What's the allure of caving? The unknown and the thrill of discovery. Oh, yes. Well, it's true though. That's what the article says. But I don't mean to be glib. It is very cool and way different down there. Like you get a sense that it is it is not the same topside as it is in the bowels of the earth. Very different place and very cool to experience. Yeah. First hand. And as we mentioned, there's a lot of a good opportunity for cave archaeology because the climate and temperature in a cave is so stable. Things are things left in caves are really, really well preserved. Yeah. And you know, the caves were

a good place for ancient rituals and things. And they mentioned that the cave art in France. Yeah. And let's go. Have you seen this stuff? Yeah. Holy cow. It's like it looks like artwork painted on canvas. Some of it does. It's not like, you know, just scratchy cave drawings. Like this stuff is really beautiful. Yeah. And they found this in 1940. They discovered this in France from the Paleolithic era, 17 to 20,000 years old. And over 2000 figures drawn. And it's like, from what I understand, like the granddaddy of all cave drawing scores. Yeah. Was here in France. Yeah. Here in France. They're in France. Well, there's also another one called Chauvet Cave. Oh, yeah. In France. And that's what Warner Herzog's Cave of Forgotten Dreams is. Oh, I never saw

that. Oh, you didn't? I'll watch anything that he's in. Yeah. Urdinary. Yeah. Oh, he does so much narrating. He's a bad guy. And is it the new bond? No. Is that right? No, he's a bad guy in some movie coming up. And I was like, Oh, that's brilliant. Yeah. Like no one sounds more diabolical in front of Herzog. Yeah, it's perfect. But yeah, no, that's a good one too. And I think they shot it in 3D as well. It's supposed to be like really good. Oh, wow. But yeah, check that one out. It's very interesting because they figure out that they're like, why would these idiots draw a bison with eight legs? Was there an eight-legged bison back then? And then somebody figured out that if you look at it by torch light, not electric torch, but real fire torch. Does it move? It

moves. Oh, my God. That is so cool. Yeah. Wow. That's awesome. Yeah, I highly recommend you guys go and Google image these, L-A-S-C-A-U-X, France. And it's all over the place. And what was the other one? Chauvet, C-H-U-V-E-T. Yeah, very cool stuff. NCK but Forgotten Dreams, if you're into that. I mean, it's a lot of cattle drawings, granted. But, you know, it's better than you would think. Right. Considering they're doing this on a cave 20,000 years ago. Exactly. There's also biospeleology, which we talked about at length, and we don't need to really get into here. Go listen to the biospeleology episode. But that's another reason people go through caves. But ultimately, I think the first sentence was the right one. It's like the thrill of discovery

and the unknown. There's so few people doing any actual caving and enough caves out there that you've got a pretty good shot of finding something that no one else has seen for 10,000 years, or maybe ever. Yeah. You know? That's pretty cool. In cavers, too, part of being a caver or a speleologist is being into conservation and preservation. And that's one thing I learned from my buddy Eric and his friend. They were like casual speedlunkers that were in there. Clearly didn't know what they were doing, weren't dressed for it, didn't have the proper equipment. And, of course, these guys are just like, these are the people that get us in trouble or that get in trouble that we need to come help get out of trouble. But I think serious cavers are uniformly way

into the preserving the cave. Sure. Like they don't just go cave and like, yeah, that was cool. Like they're all into the meetings and the preservation. A lot of them do the volunteer for search and rescue and stuff like that. Like they really get into it. Yeah. It's kind of casual affair. No. And that idea actually extends to urban spelunking or urban exploration. Yeah. Which we've covered. Yeah. Where you enter something like a sewer system or an abandoned building or something like that. But one of the big rules is like you can't break and enter. You can enter. Somebody else has already cut a hole in the chain link fence. You can go through that hole. You can't cut that hole yourself. You don't take anything. Right. You preserve

the place exactly the way it was. And we actually have I think what's a new article on the site that is awesome. 10 top 10 cities for urban exploration. Oh yeah. It's like got all these attractions of like where to go in the city and what to explore. It's very cool. Well, Francis the catacombs I know are really popular. Yeah. And I did a little bit of that in Florida and Fort Pickens in Pensacola. Oh, the Fort Pickens catacombs. Well, the Fort Pickens battery. It was like, you know, Civil War battery. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And I think it's all blocked off now. But at the time, like the metal bars were bent enough where you get through and me and my brother and my brother-in-law like made torches and like went all through the awesome. What did you find?

You know, stuff written on the walls like from the Civil War and then stuff written on the walls clearly more modern. Right. In nature. Right. But just graffiti and stuff and beer cans. But it was just neat walking around. It's cool. What else took how to get started? Yeah. I guess if this podcast tickles your fancy, then you may want to know how to get into this. Yeah. A lot of people might be into the very easy guided you walk in and you walk around type of experience. Right. Take the kids. There's nothing wrong with it. You can still learn a lot. You know, it's not a cop out like Carl's bad caverns and like the real touristy ones. They're great. Yeah. Have you ever been there? I haven't been there. I've been to Ruby Falls. You mean I went?

Yeah. Ruby Falls is nice. Yeah. And there was plenty of people running around. It was very well lit. Yeah. Safe. Yeah. But it was so awesome getting to the falls. Yeah. I mean, it was great. It was total. I think part of the reason I appreciated it so much because I took it for what it was. It was like, this is tourism. Yeah. But it's also very cool. Yeah. I mean, you're walking underneath a fault line in the earth. Yeah. It's really kind of... You can sell t-shirts afterward, but it's still very cool to be in there. Exactly. So you can do that. You can go to these like really big touristy ones and still get a nice experience or you can get a guided tour for a little more intense experience.

Have you been in Carlsbad, Cameron? Yeah. Okay. Yeah, it's nice. It's lovely. It's like red carpet everywhere. Yeah. It's just couches everywhere. Massage chairs. But they do mention in this article that kids are great to take into caves. They love that kind of stuff. Obviously, you want to keep an eye on them because it's pretty easy to get lost in there. Yeah. But at these big major attractions, they take care of you. Right. They're not going to let your kid go off and live with the salamanders. Yeah. And you've got a guide for the guided tour. Yeah. But even self-guided tours, it's usually paved or clearly marked trail. You're going to have a lot of trouble getting lost if you get off of this trail. Yeah. Or if you stay on the trail, I should say.

Yeah. I went to a concert in a cave one time. Really? Yeah. In Tennessee, they... Oh man, what's the name of it? Something caverns. I can't remember now. But it was... The Silver Jews played their last show ever in this cave. Oh yeah. And they have regular shows there, like usually it's like bluegrass and stuff. But it's awesome. Like you park in this big field and then it's one of these where you walk into a huge opening and there's big paths. But you walk like probably half a mile down in there and then it opens up to this huge open room. And there's a stage and there's lights and everything. Wow. That's cool. Really cool experience. I wonder what the green room's like there. I don't know. It's probably brown.

Just sit on that rock. I won't bring you some shrimp. Yeah. It was really very cool show though. I might post pictures of that too. Okay. Wow. This is going to be a picture of a banana. The war on drugs impacts everyone, whether or not you take drugs. America's public enemy, number one, is drug abuse. This podcast is going to show you the truth behind the war on drugs. They told me that I would be charged for conspiracy to distribute 2200 pounds of marijuana. Yeah, and they can do that without any drugs on the table. Without any drugs. Of course, yes, they can do that. And I'm the prime example of that. The war on drugs is the excuse our government uses to get away with absolutely insane stuff. Stuff that'll piss you off.

The property is guilty. Exactly. And it starts as guilty. It starts as guilty. The cops. Are they just like looting? Are they just like pillaging? They just have way better names for what they call like what we would call a jack move or being robbed. They call civil acid. Be sure to listen to the war on drugs on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Where were you in 92? Were you bouncing your butt to Sir Mix-A-Lot wondering if you like Billy Ray Cyrus could pull off a mullet? Yes. 1992 was a crazier for music and a crazy time to be alive. And now iHeart has a podcast all about it. I'm Jason Launfier, and on my new show

Where Were You in 92, we take a ride through the major hits, One Hit Wonders, and irresistible scandals that shape what might be the wildest, most controversial 12 months in music and pop culture history. They were angry at me. They thought I was uncontrollable and wild. I wanted to burst open. The president came after me. Everybody's I'm Warner with madness. Imagine trying to put a record like that out right now. We canceled before it made it to the post office. Featuring interviews and special guests like Sir Mix-A-Lot, Ice-T, Tori Amos, and Vanessa Williams, this podcast poses the question, what was it about 1992 that made it so groundbreaking and so absolutely fabulous? So buckle up and tune into Where Are You in 92. New episodes drop

every Wednesday. Listen and follow on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Then there's cave diving. Yes, probably the most dangerous thing a person can do. Yeah, we can't overstate that enough. Like even these cavers dudes that I was with that are hardcore, they were like, those people are crazy. Yeah, and if you're a hardcore scuba diver, even a wreck diver, that doesn't mean you're a cave diver. No. Cave diver is its own thing. Yeah. And like it's, it's very easy to die. In 2012, seven people already died in cave diving. In 2012 now? Wow. Three of them in three different days, three consecutive days in Florida in three different incidents. Yeah. In March. Yeah, it's scary. And I asked Eric, I was like, well, why, you know,

what's the big deal? And he was like, dude, you're just, you got to be crazy to do it. And he's like, you are underground underwater. Right. And it's very easy to get lost and turned around and you've only got so much air. They say that to never like to try and exit with half a tank of air still. Yeah. Or whatever. It was not air. What is it? It's compressed air. Okay, compressed air. There's like an air mix, but it's generally air. Yeah, but they're like, you don't want to go below half a tank ever. That's just scary. I'm sure. And he took me after we went caving, he took me to the entry point for the cave diving nearby. And it's this little, probably, you know, 10 foot by 10 foot hole, you know, little pool, but it's like infinitely deep. Right. And it's like, wow,

so you can jump in and just sort of waddle around. Or there's below that, there's the tube where you enter. And it just seemed like the scariest thing ever. Right. With a tank of air on your back that could be punctured by anything. Yeah. Because it's not like there's not stalactites hanging down. Yeah, it's utterly frightening to me. That said, if you're in a cave diving, you go through the certification and you like are into that kind of thing. There's some awesome cave diving, like cenotes, any cenotes. Yeah, yeah. And there's a place in that I missed when we were talking about the Abandoned Mines podcast. There's a place called Bontair Mine in Missouri. And it's an old lead mine that was in production for like 100 years.

And then they closed it down in 1960. And they didn't remove anything. There's like magazines, all this stuff still sitting around. And they flooded it with like a billion gallons of crystal clear water. Really? And you can go scuba dive. You can cave dive this Abandoned Mine now. Wow. And see, there's like an old movie theater down there. Really? There's mine cars, elevators. Yeah, it's pretty cool. That's awesome. Yeah. But it's like the visibility is just limitless. Wow. I wonder if that's slightly safer. I think it's pretty heavily guided as tours go. So if you're going to start somewhere, that would probably be a good place. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, I saw a couple of dudes come out of the hole. And all the cavers know each

other, it seems like, because they knew these guys. And they were like, oh, yeah, it's good. You know, these guys are real nice. And then they turned around, they're like, they're nuts. These guys are crazy. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, so all the cavers know each other because they're all members of grottoes, right? Yeah, it definitely seems like a close knit community, right? Like they're all on each other that have each other's contact info. Because, you know, when someone gets lost, they send out, you know, like who can come and help basically, right, who's free tomorrow, right to come and find these idiots tomorrow. They're in trouble if it's tomorrow.

But well, a grotto is a caving club, right? And there any legitimate caving club is sanctioned by the National Speleological Society. And there's about 200 caving clubs or grottoes in the US. Nice. Good people. So if you're a member of a grotto, if you're a caver, what are some of the things that you're going to need? You're already into this. You're like, come on, let's go. What are we going to do? What do I need to take with me? Well, you want to take three forms of light and plenty of backup batteries and then take glow sticks, take the headlamps, take lighters, even though those will get wet. You know, you can bag them in the dry bag, but take as many forms of light

as you feel comfortable with that's not less than three. And I took like four or five flies. That's smart. Yeah, I just, and I knew I was going to be fine, but I was just like, you know what? I'm going into the depths of the earth. I want to have lots of light at my disposal. Right. And you want to also have lots of batteries and extra bulbs for those lights? Yeah, sure. Just because the light, your light is the number one most important thing when you're caving. That's the number one most important piece of equipment. Yeah. And my buddy, Eric had a carbide lamp, which, you know, back in the day would like even car headlights and lights on the fronts of houses. It wasn't always a gas lamp. Sometimes

it was carbide and old school cavers use these things. And it's basically a chemical reaction. It burns acetylene gas and it's created from a reaction of calcium carbide with water. So he had this, this pod that he carried on his belt that had carbide pellets in it. And it would drip water down and create the gas and it fed it up through a tube connected to the, you know, the gas lamp that he's wearing on his head. And it was really cool. The other guy didn't have one, but Eric was used it. And the light that it gives is just really very illuminating. It's not like a, you know, how incandescent light is just so specific, even if it's at like a broad range, it's not like having a flame. So this thing really warms up the cave and it does

actually warm it slightly, but just generally with light warmth, it's just like the cave was illuminated, not like a flashlight shining on something. Very cool. And very durable. Like if you take care of these things, they're a little finicky, but if you take care of them, you can have them like your whole life. Sounds kind of new fangled. No, it's very old school. Well, old fangled. Yeah, it's old fangled. And you just look cool. Eric looked like a cool guy with his tube running out of his head and flicking the little lighter switch and he looked cooler than I did with my glow stick. Yeah, my glow stick. So you need light. You need light. You need a helmet and you want your helmet to be certified by the Union Internationale des Associations.

Yes. Jerry just laughed at me. You want a helmet. You want like, and this is if you want to do it right, like in safely, we saw morons in tank tops and shorts walking around and crawling around. And you know, these guys are just rolling their eyes. Like those are the people that get hurt and get lost. Right. We had knee pads and elbow pads, helmets. As far as safety gear, that was pretty much it. And they have like rope and stuff just in case. And you want to dress appropriately in layers. Avoid cotton. Well, if you are wearing cotton, you want to wear under layers of synthetics. Yes. Snag less easily. They dry more quickly. Yeah. Yeah, I would imagine you just want to avoid cotton all together if possible. Yeah, or one of those like synthetic

wicking shirts. You know, the workout shirts. Yeah. But you do you want to dress in layers because it's cold in there. Yeah. But you know, you may raise your heart right here there and you may get a little warm. It definitely makes my heart rate. Yeah. You're going to get wet most likely. You can be in the dry dusty cave, but chances are you're going to get wet. There were times where we were up to our chest in a crevice about two feet wide up to our chest and water. And it's intimidating. It's like I'm far away from anybody and like, what if this water rises? I mean, it didn't. But you know, what if it started raining? These things can happen pretty fast down there. And so I mean, we were literally soaked to the

bone. It's like getting a swimming pool and then you get out and you're covered in mud and you're supposed to climb things that's like climbing a creased wall of stone. I'm like, am I supposed to really do this? Right. And they were like pushing me by my butt. It was sort of embarrassing, like pulling me. It felt like a stuck pig at times. The only thing that made it better was the warm glow of the carbide lamp. And then they had the pancakes, you know, where it's like, you know, I'm surprised my body fit in this thing. And you had to go like 30 feet across this pancake. What is it? Well, it's where there's a top rock and a bottom rock. So basically you just... Oh, gotcha. There's like a foot of space to crawl through. And you can't even crawl. You're like

inching, you know, using your shoulder blades. I would have lost my mind. You would not have liked this pancake. And that's when I remembered thinking, boy, Josh would not have liked this part. It was uncomfortable for me. And I don't even have issues with like, you know, closed in spaces. But you feel like, what if the earth shifted in this thing just smashed me? Yeah. Of course, the earth doesn't shift like that. But I don't know. It could. I'm down there. I'm freaking out. Yeah. And you made it though. Yeah. I don't want to spoil it. Yeah. You survived. What else you need? Food and water? Sure. Do you want enough to last your whole trip? And then some just in case, you know? Like you want gloves? You want a first aid kit?

Yeah. And here's my favorite part. So we were talking about how, like you do, you just preserve the environment exactly as it was found. This also means that you're not allowed to poop there. You can poop there, but you're going to poop into like a a plastic container. Yeah. That you can carry out with you because you take your urine and your feces out of the cave with you. So you want a plastic bottle to pee into and a like a good crush proof container to poop into. I did not poop. I wouldn't have pooped. I'd just be like, well, I guess I'm not pooping today. Yeah. And, you know, I was only down there a few hours. So if you can't, if you can't hold your poop a few hours, you probably shouldn't be caving that

day. Man. Just put it off. You know, imagine getting sick down there. Oh, like vomiting? No. I'm not sure what you mean. The other kind. Oh, like poopy sick? Yeah. Yeah, that would be awful. If you have a cave map, which you should have, bring a few copies, put them in ziplocks, hand them out to your friends that you're with. Make sure everyone knows what's going on. Right. And you also want to probably leave one at home with an X marks the spot of your route. Sure. And well, at least it's the cave safety, doesn't it? Yeah. There's a lot of precautions you should be taking before you set out. Yeah, know what you're doing. Do not take it lightly. It's not like a hike that you can go on. So it's definitely different. You should go with someone that knows

what they're doing. At the very least, a couple of people would be even better. They say not to go in really large groups because you don't want it like you could leave someone behind easier. Yeah. Like four to six people. Right. Is a good number. And you want to put the slowest person at the front of the group. That would have been me. So everybody's kind of pushing them from behind. Sometimes literally. Yeah. And the reason why is because, you know, that person doesn't get left behind. It makes the whole group stick together. Yeah. And if you're into passive aggressive peer pressure, that's great. That's a great situation for everybody. Yeah. You know, no, you're fine. I know. That's what they kept saying too. Like, oh, you're doing great, buddy.

And I was like, no, I'm not. I know I'm that guy. You also never ever want to go caving alone. I don't think there's a better sentence that's ever been spoken by anybody. Never go caving alone. That's a good idea. If you do get lost, they say to stay put and that it's better to stay put instead of moving around because at least you're where you last were. Right. You are where you last were. Well, you're where you said you were going to be. Yeah, at least roughly. If your light goes out and you're alone, start screaming at the top of your lungs until someone comes and gets you. That's probably not a bad idea. But they say not to freak out. But yeah, I would definitely try and make a little noise. Although you also don't want to attract the dissent.

Hail Billy's. Yeah, whatever those were, they were, they were mountain folk. You know what, that was a lot like a Lovecraft story. I was I can't remember the name of it, but it's there's a whole thing that takes place in the Alleghenies, maybe Adirondacks, when it's somewhere up there, where it's this family that was like kind of mountain folk came to Embryd and eventually moved underground. It's one of his best ones. Man, he was we should do a podcast on him. Okay, what a twisted mind. Yeah, well, we did the Necronomic I remember. Yeah, but let's just do one on his life. Okay, what made him tick? Let's do it. Oh, while we're at it real quick. Yeah, dude, I found a real legitimate physics paper or written by a legitimate physicist

that explains how certain events in Lovecraft's The Call of Cthulhu can be explained away by quantum physics. Really? Yeah, it's specifically a gravitational lensing. Huh? Yeah. To explain what Cthulhu is or know like what happened to this guy who went mad and described this crazy place that he went and stumbled upon in the South Pacific, and then came back and wrote about it. They were like, Well, actually, wait a minute, what he's talking about is a quantum bubble. Wow. Yeah, it's pretty awesome. This like it's it gets in it like he works out math and formulas for explaining all this. Yeah. And that's but the rest of it is really interesting. Wow. Yeah, I can't remember what it's called, but probably look up the physics of the call of Cthulhu and

I'm sure it'll bring it up. It's a good one. That's awesome. So what are some of the big problems you're going to run into, Chuck, aside from getting lost or running out of light? Hypothermia. Right. I was a concern when you're cold and wet. Like I said earlier, flooding of passages, which I was worried about the whole time. Yeah. Slipping, falling, I was slipping all over the place. It's going to happen in these muddy caves. And, you know, you just I just sort of slid and tried not to pick my face up off the rock. Right. But I definitely got bumps and bruises. I'll bet. And I was really sore the next day. It was like mountain climbing, except underground and the mountain was slick and muddy. Yeah.

That's basically kind of what it felt like like rock climbing. Yeah. Was not what I thought it was going to be. Once again, I can't stress that enough. It's not, it's not a stroll. Hey, my bologna sandwich by 10 a.m. Yeah. It was pretty bad, but super fun. And like I said, when you come out, man, this is so weird. Once you've been underground for that long, when you come out to the real world, everything is just like hyper colorful and bright and just weird. And it's like, man, there's a whole different world down there that most people don't know about. Nice. I highly encourage it. Just be careful. Yeah. I think that's good advice. Is there anything else

in here? Always make sure that several people above ground know where you went, know where you're going, know when you expect to be back. Yeah. And if somebody does get hurt, never leave that person alone. Right. Couple of people have to stay with them. A couple of people have to go topside. The people who go topside need to leave some of their supplies and light and stuff and water or back with the people who are hanging out with the injured person. Yeah. They need to know exactly where the injured person is so they can tell other people who can come get them out. Right. And they also need to remember to take the car keys with them. Oh, yeah. Really kind of important. You don't want to get all the way out there and be like, oh, can you imagine left the keys in there?

Yeah. Yeah, that would suck. And then like you said, if you ever get lost, you don't want to panic. You want to stay put. You want to rely on your plan, your backup plan, which was letting a bunch of people know that you were supposed to have been home two hours ago and you weren't. That's right. And there are thousands of caves in the US, many of which are very explorable. Just do your research beforehand. Go with someone that knows what they're doing. There are more extreme caves around the world that are very cool to look at. Ones that you actually can skydive into, or not skydive, but base jump into. Yeah. Boy, that, I can't imagine skydiving into one. I think I've seen, I've seen a video of people base jumping into this with Sotano,

De Las Colinas. Yeah. I think Planet Earth, the Discovery show had that. Okay. Yeah. That's where I saw it. It was, it's way cool. Yeah. And then like you talked about the cenotes, those are very cool too. Just be careful that we said that enough. I don't know. I don't think you can because like I said, once you get there, you realize they're just a bunch of dummies, no matter what, that are ill-prepared locals that are like, yeah, I've been down here before. Yeah. Good luck people. That's all I gotta say. The war on drugs impacts everyone, whether or not you take drugs. America's public enemy number one is drug abuse. This podcast is going to show you the truth behind the war on drugs.

They told me that I would be charged for conspiracy to distribute 2,200 pounds of marijuana. Yeah. And they can do that without any drugs on the table. Without any drugs. Of course, yes, they can do that. And I'm a prime example of that. The war on drugs is the excuse our government uses to get away with absolutely insane stuff. Stuff that'll piss you off. The property is guilty. Exactly. And it starts as guilty. It starts as guilty. Cops, are they just like looting? Are they just like pillaging? They just have way better names for what they call like what we would call a jack move or being robbed. They call civil asset fortune. Be sure to listen to the war on drugs on the I heart radio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. Where were you in 92?

Were you bouncing your butt to Sir mix a lot? Wondering if you like Billy Ray Cyrus could pull off a mullet? Yes. 1992 was a crazier for music and a crazy time to be alive. And now I heard as a podcast all about it. I'm Jason Launfier. And on my new show, where were you in 92? We take a ride through the major hits, one hit wonders and irresistible scandals that shape what might be the wildest, most controversial 12 months in music and pop culture history. They were angry at me. They thought I was uncontrollable and wild. I wanted to burst open. The president came after me. Everybody I'm Warner with madness. Imagine trying to put a record like that out right now. We canceled before it made it to the post office. Featuring interviews and

special guests like Sir mix a lot, ice tea, Tori Amos and Vanessa Williams. This podcast poses the question. What was it about 1992 that made it so groundbreaking and so absolutely fabulous. So buckle up and tune into where you 92 new episodes drop every Wednesday. Listen and follow on the I heart radio app, Apple podcast or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Okay. Well, if you want to learn more about caving, you can type in spelunking in the search bar at house to forge.com S P E L U N K I N G and we'll bring up this article. And I said spelunky, which means, of course, it's time for listener now. I'm going to call this Pakistani pizza. We did a pizza podcast and we got

lots and lots and lots of feedback on that. I knew that was going to be one of those. Yeah. Very ubiquitous food that people love to talk about. And this is from, and I'm probably going to put your name. Sorry, buddy. Nabiha Syed. Okay. And he said that he listened to the pizza cast and thought he would drop some four one one on pizza in Pakistan. He's originally from Orlando, but currently lives in Karachi for university. And he said, here, when you order a pizza, you don't really order toppings, but you order a specific flavor. Although if you're at a pizza place, you can order specific toppings and build your own pizza. This pizza calls it. So they are a little less cooperative when you order for delivery. Apparently in Pakistan. So he said,

your pizza will most likely have some form of chicken on it. And then, of course, there's no ham because it's a Muslim country. Yeah. Pizza Hut alone serves chicken, Tika chicken, Kari chicken, fajita, Bahari chicken, Afghan, Tika, and the spicier fajita Sicilian as well as as well as the veggie, shawarma, pepperoni and a couple of other different beef flavors. Dude, I'll bet that's so good. I bet it is. Chicken, Tika pizza in Pakistan. Yeah. Here's the kicker for me, guys. Not only do they offer their usual stuffed crust with the rope of cheese, they also serve beefy, seek kebab stuffed crust. Yes. Wow. Papa John's... Wait, wait, wait. I want to just make sure everyone understands what you just said. He said that they offer a pizza with a crust stuffed

with kebab. With beef kebab. That sounds delightful. It does. Papa John's offers a more traditional American pizza menu with their various pseudo Italian names, including chicken florentine. Domino's flavors in Pakistan are a little more mainstream American while they do serve chicken Tika as well as something called golden feast or something to that effect, which as far as I know involves corn, pineapple, and probably chicken. Along with the corporate giants, there are plenty of local chains, oddly generic sounding names, including pizza place, pizza point, pizza, California pizza, and the list goes on and on. Pizza. It's a typo. Unfortunately, my university and dorm are located on the outskirts of town, not in the ideal neighborhoods of these places,

usually don't deliver. But I suppose that's fine. I don't order pizza very much here. That's Pakistani pizza. It's kind of small and a bit too cakey and very super ready. But it fills you up and you never leave hungry. I just had a fairly tasty contraption from pizza point around five hours ago for dinner. And I can still feel it in my throat. Lesson learned, do not go to bed in the morning, sleep until the evening, and order excess food. Anyways, love the show. And lots of love. That is Nabiha Syed. Thanks a lot. That's right. Yeah, that's all. That's right. Yeah, see it. Maybe just say it. Maybe just say it. Say it. I've heard it, Syed. We'll find out. Nabiha, right? Yeah. Thanks a lot for writing it. Good luck with your

studies. And the pizza. Yeah, if you're in a foreign land and you're listening to us and you have some 411, as Nabiha pointed out. Nabiha, right? We want to hear from it. We want to hear about it from you. You can tweet to us at syskpodcast. You can join us on facebook.com slash stuff you should know. And you can send us an email to stuffpodcastdiscovery.com. For more on this and thousands of other topics, visit howstuffworks.com. Are you looking for a mystery fix? Join the great detectives of old time radio every day Monday through Saturday for a different detective drama from Radio Golden Age. I'm Adam Graham and I've been guiding listeners through these classic programs since 2009. I offer my commentary after

each episode and respond to your feedback. Enjoy a good mystery anytime you feel like some old school radio goodness. Listen to the great detectives of old time radio on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.