Stuff You Should Know - How Circumcision Works

Episode Date: December 1, 2010

Circumcision is a common practice in which the foreskin of a male's penis is removed, typically as a baby. Josh and Chuck take a look at the origins, practices, and arguments for and against circumcision in this episode. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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like what we would call a jack move or being robbed. They call civil acid work. Be sure to listen to The War on Drugs on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Brought to you by the reinvented 2012 Camry. It's ready, are you? Welcome to Stuff You Should Know from HouseStuffWorks.com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Joshua M. Clark with me is Charles W. Bryant. That makes this Stuff You Should Nizzo. And that's that. Hi. Hey. Josh M. Clark. Joshua M. Clark. Yes. You don't have a fancy setup today? I have an intro. Okay, let's hear it. Okay.

Okay. Wow. Chuck, you're really kind of putting me up against the wall, aren't you today? You waiting on me? A little bit? Okay. Are you ready? I'm ready. Chuck. Josh. Have you ever heard of Lloyd Schofield? I have not. Yes, you have. You always do this. Who is he? He is a guy out in San Francisco who has proposed for next November's, I guess, referendum elections. It wouldn't even be midterm. What do you call the elections between midterm and, you know, the big ones? Quarter term? I don't know. Okay. We'll call it that. For next November's ballot in San Francisco, there may be a referendum if Lloyd Schofield has anything to do with it, that outright bans male circumcision. In San Francisco? Well, yeah.

Obviously. You've got to start somewhere. Yeah. Schofield needs 7100 signatures. And basically read the, read the provision, Chuck, the wording of the proposed referendum. It would make it a misdemeanor to circumcise, excise, cut, or mutilate the genitals of a person under 18. Right. And he says it's genital mutilation. That's how he feels. And other people feel that way too. Yeah. He's definitely not on his own in that one. There's some people in this CBS AP article there, like, it's a little too far. It should be the choice of the parents. Right. Schofield's idea, and it's kind of, it kind of appears in this, in the wording of the ballot measure, that it's a parent's choice, but it's not the choice of most people who are circumcised because

they're generally circumcised as newborn infants. Yeah. Little boys are. And he likened it to tattooing because you're not allowed to tattoo a child. When did you start saying tattoo like that? What do you mean? Tattoo. Is that weird? Yeah, it's a little weird. It's like humans. Well, that's what he says. He said that, you know, to felony, to tattoo a kid. So he's really laughing in there. Yeah. To tattoo a child. And so he says it's the same thing. Well, yeah, he's actually saying it's way, way worse than tattooing. Exactly. But he is saying it's the only same line. It's a choice by the parents that is possibly against the child's will later on. Sure. And that's that. So let's talk about circumcision because this is a little, that's an odd approach

to me. You know, like the way I've always understood it is, you know, there's circumcision out there. It's not weird. It's not odd. But as you kind of get older, you realize that there's, you know, two sides to this whole story. Yes. And it kind of is actually. And you kind of come to realize like there's people out there who think that people who aren't circumcised are weird. And people out there who think that people who are circumcised are weird, right? Exactly. Let's do some stats that man. Well, I think the first stat we should open with perhaps is that if you are an American boy or man in the last 30 years, then there's about a three and five chance that you are circumcised here in this country over the past three decades, although that is falling

big time. Yeah. What was the three and five chance now in 2005 between 1980 and I think 2000, it was about three and five, right? Yes. And then by 2005, it had dropped to about 53%. Yeah. And Scofield says that in 2009, it fell to 33%. That's a huge drop. So in a decade, it fell 30%. And they actually think one of the reasons why is because there's been an increasing presence of Hispanics in the US and Hispanics are much, much less likely than any other group to circumcise their male infants. And it's also lower out west and where there's a larger Hispanic population. Yeah. In the Midwest, there's about a 75% chance that you are going to circumcise your boy. Yeah. Yeah. In the South, there's half 50, 50, right? It's like Russian roulette with a two-barreled,

two chambered gun. Yeah. Sure. And then out west, yeah, it's less than a quarter of the male infants are circumcised out there every year. But ultimately, there's about 1.2 million circumcisions. Well, there were in 2005. Yes. So now we're down to less than that. But in 2005, there were about 1.2 million male boys born in the United States who were circumcised, right? Yeah. And since you mentioned that, that about $200 a pop, even though it's included in your birthing bill, it's about $240 million that insurance companies would love to not have to pay. Exactly. So there's actually, I don't know if it's a overt support or maybe quiet financial support or whatever, but the insurance companies are very happy to side with the anti-circumcision

movement. And Medicaid. Yes, of course. The war on drugs impacts everyone, whether or not you take drugs. America's public enemy number one is drug abuse. This podcast is going to show you the truth behind the war on drugs. They told me that I would be charged for conspiracy to distribute 2,200 pounds of marijuana. Yeah, and they can do that without any drugs on the table. Without any drugs, of course, yes, they can do that. And I'm the prime example of that. The war on drugs is the excuse our government uses to get away with absolutely insane stuff. Stuff that'll piss you off. The property is guilty. Exactly. And it starts as guilty. It starts as guilty. The cops, are they just like looting? Are they just like pillaging? They just have way

better names for what they call, like what we would call a jack move or being robbed. They call civil answer for that. Be sure to listen to the war on drugs on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Hey, y'all. This is Dr. Joy Horton Bradford, host of the award-winning weekly podcast, Therapy for Black Girls. Our incredible community of sisters has been building the Therapy for Black Girls podcast for five years running. And over that time, we've published over 250 episodes and gained over 18 million podcast downloads. During this time, we've tackled the stigma surrounding mental health and shared conversations to help us all understand ourselves and others

a little better. Hundreds of incredible licensed mental health care professionals and other experts have joined us to share tips on taking better care of ourselves. We flip through the pages of your favorite romance novels with author Tia Williams, checked in with Grammy award-winning artist Michelle Williams, and discussed the hurdles of balancing competitive sports, motherhood, and mental health with Olympic athlete Natasha Hastings. Five years down and many more years of work to be done. Join us now by checking out the Therapy for Black Girls podcast on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. So Chuck, let's talk about the penis. Let's talk about the foreskin. That's part of it.

We're going to say the word penis a whole lot because you can't avoid it when you're talking about circumcision. That's right. Because let's just go ahead and set up for our foreign friends who may not know what circumcision is, like roller derby. Circumcision is when the foreskin of the penis that's also called the prep use prep use is removed. Simple as that. So you got the prep use, which is the foreskin. Yes, it covers the tip of the penis, which is also called the glands g l a n s. Right. And then there's a piece of connective tissue that works much like the connective tissue that anchors the bottom of your tongue to the floor of your mouth. Yes. It's called a frenulum and that keeps the prep use connected to the glands. Yeah,

and they also said the inner portion of the foreskin is also much like the inside of your mouth and that it has a natural moisture to lubricate the glands. It's hot and moist in there. That's what it says. Yes. It provides lubrication, which kind of keeps it safe and sheathed, I guess. Right. Yeah. From abrasion and like they mentioned cold and the dry winter air. Yes. Can be rough on a glands. Yeah. And they this was the Tom Sheeve article and my hat is off to him for this one. Yes. Tom did a great job with this. I liked your first response. Thank you. Chuck also contains the prep use also contains some nerve cells, did nerve bundles, blood special blood cells. I had no idea. Just it makes the penis that much

more sensitive and the fact that it produces movement aids and stimulation. Yeah. And lubrication. So there's a lot of people who are happy with their prep use or foreskin and are very glad that they are uncut as the anti-circumcision groups would call it. Right. Right. Or natural is another one. That's right. And since we're talking about the foreskin, it's not the same on all dudes. It's like every human body part. It varies from person to person. And some men actually are sort of naturally circumcised because they're either born with very little foreskin or they have foreskins that actually retract during puberty. They go. Exactly. Or maybe sad trombone. And they do serve a protective purpose, but they can also, and for people that are on both sides,

we're going to present both sides of the argument. So don't say, you guys, you're just talking about this one side. We're going to talk about both sides. Sure. Of course. But some one camp believes that it can cause some problems. Well, it can. I think everybody agrees on these. Like these are the very rare problems that can come about from having foreskins. We should say that it's rare, though, because one of the big problems that the anti circumcision folks have is that these are overstated. Like when you say it can, it's easier to get dirty and bacteria can build up and all these things can happen. That is true, but it's not like if you skip a shower, this is going to happen. Well, let's talk about this because there are some problems that can arise just from having

an or normal foreskin. One of those problems, because it is like the inside of your mouth in there, warm, moist, got to keep it clean. You do have to keep it clean. And if you don't, a white buildup, a white soapy buildup, soapy, soupy. He says cheesy in the article. Cheesy. That's right. A white cheesy buildup called smeg mom can develop. And once you start developing a white cheesy buildup called smeg mom within your foreskin, you want to take a really hard, long look at your grooming habits. Yeah. Did you say smeg mom? Smegma. Okay. Smeg mom's maybe the plural. No, he's just smeg. I want to make sure you were saying it right. Smegma. Because the last thing I want is listener mail on the pronunciation of smegma. We get all these voice files. Although

I've always said smegma, but I think smegma. Yeah. Maybe I've just said smegma for humor's sake. Maybe. All right. That was around the time Wayne's World was out, wasn't it? Probably so. That's just one, that's probably a pretty minor thing. I'm sure that's easily corrected. Your foreskin, though, can also be, well, it can develop in two ways. Too tight or too loose, right? In each other problems. Take it, Chuck. Too tight. It can cause a condition known as phymosis. It's like trying to put on a sweater that's way too small for you. It's a good way to look at it. And that is a medical, that's the main medical determinant for whether or not you should get a circumcision. Like the main medical reason would be phymosis. I think that's probably because

it's the most frequent. It's probably the most frequent problem. You think? I think. Okay. If it's too loose, then it's going to be called para-phymosis. And that's like wearing your dad's sweater. Yes. And it can cause swelling of the glands in the foreskin. And there's also something called ballon post thesis, which is swelling of the mucous surfaces of the foreskin. Right. And that can lead to skin disease, problems with the urethra, pain, all sorts of things that you don't want to have going on out there. And this general like, why, God, why? Yeah, I would imagine so. You can have your frenulum attached too tightly. That's the frenulum brevi where it's just like, that's like trying to poke your head through

that very, very tight sweater. That's a good way to look at it as well. Thank you, Chuck. And very evocative, Josh. And circumcision can help correct all of these problems, but it is rarely a medically necessary to get circumcised. Right. And like we said, these problems do exist. They are serious problems. It's at the very least uncomfortable, if not, you know, downright dangerous. Sure. And I think both sides agree that there are circumstances such as these that do warrant circumcision. Yeah. Problem is, most circumcision, I'm sure the vast majority of circumcisions are customary, cultural, preventative. Right. Yeah. Sociological in nature. Let's talk about the origins of circumcision. When did humans get

the idea to cut the foreskin off of boys penises? Well, did it start with the Bible? This is where Tom started, but no, it didn't start with Egypt. As far back as we can find the Egyptians were doing. Okay. That's what we understand. Okay. You want to talk about that? Well, let's talk about the Bible first because in the book of Genesis, God made a covenant with Abraham. And as we all know, Abraham was a Jewish patriarch and his descendants. Abraham was the patriarch of the houses of the Jews and the Muslims, too. Oh, really? Yes. Isaac, his son, went on to found the Jew, well, went on to found Judaism. He's the father of Judaism. Ishmael, oh, well, yeah, the other son, be one of the legitimate son.

Right. But he went on to found Islam. Yes. And Isaac, they said, basically, God's going to bless Jews with riches and success. All the, you know, the land will be fruitful if you get circumcised by your eighth day. Yes. Of life. And not just you, but your sons. Yeah. Any servants that you capture, any, sir, any sons that those captured servants has, all boys. Yeah. Have to be circumcised. And this has led to the fact that today, 98% of Jewish men are in fact circumcised. Right. And according to biblical tradition, Ishmael was circumcised before he was basically run off from Abraham's family. Right. And so that kind of formed the basis of the Muslim tradition of circumcision, which continues today. Yeah. If you look at Muslim texts,

the Quran, apparently it doesn't have any endorsement or mention of circumcision, but most Muslims today still do circumcise because Muhammad apparently was circumcised. So they're, I guess it's a reverence for their profit. Yes. And today, about two thirds of every circumcised men on the planet are Muslim. Ta-da. So 98% of Jewish men. Yeah. And two thirds of Muslim circumcised. Well, no, no, two thirds of all men on the planet are Muslim who are that are circumcised. Exactly. That's a tough one. Exactly. It's kind of an odd qualifier. Christian sects don't really endorse one way or the other. They say, like, you know, decide amongst yourselves. And Buddhism and Hinduism, they don't really have a stance one way or the other. Is that right?

That's right. And we talked about the Egyptians probably being the earliest group as far as Western cultures concerned. Like with most things, the Egyptians came up with this idea. Yeah. Not necessarily independently or if they did independently, they weren't the only ones, but they apparently were the ones who exposed the early Israelites, early Jews to this concept. Right? Yeah. And then at about the same time, possibly even before other groups, the Mayans and the Aztecs were both circumcising their boys, indigenous Australians, African, Asian, and other American tribes, right? Yeah. And Georgians. Yeah. What is that? I've never heard of them, the Colchians. Yeah, I hadn't heard of them either. But Eridotus described them.

So they were ancient people that is now modern-day Georgia and they were into it. They practiced it. And then so here in the West, I guess there was strictly religious until about the 19th century, right? And then all of a sudden, medicine is like, we can do that. Well, yeah. But that's also around the same time that they were doing all sorts of things saying that this could solve this and this. Like we can treat VD and we can cure homosexuality with circumcision. And impotence was another one. Yeah. So they were a little bit off base, I would say there, as in way off base. I would think so. Yeah. But it did have a lasting impression. Your circumcision did become associated with the medical establishment here in the West.

And I think that's translated elsewhere. In the Jewish faith, a Mohel. Mohel. Mohel. Yeah, Mohel. Okay. They still perform bristles. Brissae? Brissum. I just, the only thing I know about that is from Seinfeld. Yeah. When Jerry was supposed to perform the snip. Yes. Yes. They may still perform these procedures in the Arab world, in the Muslim world. That's, it's generally done in the medical realm. Right. And then that's actually, that was taken away from barbers in ancient Turkey. Oh, really? And yeah, in Turkey, in the Middle East of the Middle Ages. Thank God. Barbers used to do amputations, bloodlettings and circumcisions. Bloodlettings like give you a nice bleeding and you'll be

feeling better. Get all the toxins out of your blood. Let's talk about it around the globe, like how, how it actually goes down. Like today. Yeah. Like Jews still, still do it traditionally before the eighth day. They kind of stick to that. In Egypt, it's anywhere from birth to about eight years old. And in Malaysia, it's in other places. It's like a rite of passage, like early adolescence. Yeah. And some, in some Muslim cultures, once a boy can recite the Quran once, like all the way through. Right. Right. Which, I mean, think about that. And think about if you don't want to get circumcised. You're like, remember that one part. Once a boy can do that, that's associated with the time when he'll be circumcised after that. And you didn't see,

there's some really sad, cute pictures in this article. Oh yeah. There's a little boy who's clutching his genitalia under his hospital gown and crying because he's like second in line to be circumcised. There's a kid who's being circumcised on page zero. It's sad stuff. I'm glad I don't print the pictures out. I don't want to see that. In Africa, Josh, it is also in a lot of tribes, a coming of age type of thing. And here's the deal in Africa, though. Sometimes there's not in these remote areas a trained professional with all the right equipment. And they do it anyway. And because of this, there's like a 35% increased risk of complications. 6% like severe complications that possibly result in partial or full amputation

of the penis. Yeah. But sometimes a traveling circumciser will roll through town in his ice cream truck. And everybody comes out with boys of all ages because they know the safe, real doctor with the real clean equipment is there. And so they'll bring out boys of all ages to get circumcised when he rolls through. Yes. Which is a good thing that happens. Asia is extremely rare unless they have thriving Muslim populations. Right. But in Asia, among Asian cultures, it's pretty uncommon except Chuck in South Korea and the Philippines. Circumcision is pretty common. Who knew? The American servicemen knew. Yeah. Is that the reason why in Korea? Yes. And the Philippines. American servicemen stationed there in the latter half,

beginning in the latter half of the 20th century, apparently got the word leaked out that they were missing their pre-puse. And South Koreans and Filipinos started following suit. Alrighty. Well, that's circumcision around the globe. Today, if we forgot your country, then we apologize. Please write in. Should we talk about the procedure itself? Yeah. As Tom put it next up, the big show. Is that what he said? God, didn't see that part. There's some on. Did you, so you didn't see the pictures? I mean, the illustrations, like step-by-step illustrations. Yeah, I didn't need it. There's even like dotted lines, like where you clip out a coupon. They have these. I have a

pretty good idea what's going on down there. So I didn't, I was just fine with the words. So what happens, Josh, is the baby, if it's a baby, an infant circumcision, then they strap the baby down, of course, arms and legs, which just seems like an awful thing. It's a bad start. When you read it. They give either a topical anesthetic, rubbed around the area or injected around the base of the penis to numb the area. There are a few different devices that the person performing the procedure can choose from. And I know you know a little bit about these. I do. Let's hear it. There's like three things.

Well, there's the GOMCO clamp, the Mogan clamp and the Plastibel device, right? Yeah. So I didn't, I didn't really look into the Mogan clamp because it just looks too wow. But the GOMCO clamp has been around for a while. And that sounds like something you would see on a late night TV ad. You can actually buy them on the internet for like 230 bucks. Yeah. Search GOMCO clamp. It comes up and do not, do not buy one and do this at home. That is in no way an endorsement to buy a GOMCO clamp. If you just stop, stop right now. The GOMCO clamp involves a bell with an arm and a appendage that comes off the tip of the bell. Put that in, pull the foreskin up around the bell. So what you're doing is you're inserting

this metal layer between the glands and the foreskin. Yeah. Like all these things, you're separating the foreskin from the glands. Exactly. Right. That's pretty much the key to circumcision. Sure. You pull it up around, you slide it through this hole. It has an arm attached to the top of the bell. It's holding everything taut. And then you cut around it. And remove the foreskin. The plastic bell device is, it's similar. It doesn't have the, the arm and the clamp holding everything, but basically you're just, you're putting a bell in between the glands and the foreskin. And then you, you basically tie off a suture around the, the foreskin that's been pulled up. Right. And then you cut that. And then eventually after like a few days,

the bell falls off and you're fine, supposedly. Well, and that's about the recovery period. Period. If you're an infant is about three to four days. Plan on having a grumpy little baby boy for those next few days and plan on keeping the area really, really clean. And maybe you might even have to bandage it and just, you got to make sure that you keep it separate from diaper poo poo because you don't want a fresh surgery being around fecal matter. Not, not a good thing. No, it's, you're, you're looking at a pretty hefty little horrible infection there. Yeah. And it takes about 30 minutes. Yeah. If you're an adult, you don't necessarily need to use any of these other bells or whistles. Literally bells. But you can just pull the foreskin

forward, make a couple of incisions, cut off the phrenulum, stitch back. Basically you're stitching this hanging loose skin to the, just to the Corona, which is the strip just below the, the gland. Yeah. And by the boom, by the bing, no sex for a couple of weeks, which no one should have to tell you that, but we're telling you that. Yeah. That would be common sense if you asked me. Then it's done. So why are people doing this, Chuck? I mean, think about that, especially as an adult. Why, why are people circumcising both their themselves and their infant sons? Why is it like all the rage? So this is the argument for, and we will cover the argument against before you get upset by Brian, Mr. Scofield. The reason some of the reasons Josh are,

obviously, like we said, you're raised in a religion or culture where that's the thing you do, then you would probably do that. Right. Some fathers think that their son's penis should kind of be like theirs and they're a little weirded out. In fact, 90%, 9 tenths of circumcised men opt to have their son circumcised and about three quarters of uncircumcised men opt to have their sons not circumcised. Yeah. So about 15% less. Remain natural. Interesting. Some parents want their sons to just be like the rest of the little boys. If an infant you live in the United States and most boys are like that, they don't want you to stand out in the locker room and potentially be teased, that kind of thing. This one, uncircumcised men are twice as likely to contract HPV

and pass that along. That's what I hear. And apparently circumcision also helps prevent or protect against chlamydia and syphilis, they say. And this is from the Journal of American Medical Association, we should say. We should. Same goes with a study that found recently that areas that don't circumcise or where circumcision is uncommon tend to have higher prevalences of HIV. I don't know if those two are causal, like HIV is more easily contracted, because there's this maybe the blood vessels are closer to the surface when the foreskin is attached. Or if it's just correlated, like maybe these areas have lesser health care, or less adequate health care. Well, at any rate, they put that number

at 60% less likely. But it's not for male to male sex, it's only female to male transmission. Is that right? HIV is what it says. Where could you go? I know. Some people think it's cleaner, but that's completely unsupported from what I can tell medically, right? That's just a perception, if I'm not mistaken. And then there are some who just think it's prettier. Yeah, better looking. Yeah, sleeker. The war on drugs impacts everyone, whether or not you take drugs. America's public enemy, number one, is drug abuse. This podcast is going to show you the truth behind the war on drugs. They told me that I would be charged for conspiracy to distribute 2200 pounds of marijuana.

Yeah, and they can do that without any drugs on the table. Without any drugs, of course, yes, they can do that. And I'm the prime example of that. The war on drugs is the excuse our government uses to get away with absolutely insane stuff. Stuff that'll piss you off. The property is guilty. Exactly. And it starts as guilty. It starts as guilty. Cops, are they just like looting? Are they just like pillaging? They just have way better names for what they call, like what we would call a jack move or being robbed. They call it civil acid. Be sure to listen to the war on drugs on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hey, y'all. This is Dr. Joy Horton Bradford, host of the award-winning weekly podcast therapy for black girls. Our incredible community of sisters has been building the therapy for black girls podcast for five years running. And over that time, we've published over 250 episodes and gained over 18 million podcast downloads. During this time, we've tackled the stigma surrounding mental health and shared conversations to help us all understand ourselves and others a little better. Hundreds of incredible licensed mental health care professionals and other experts have joined us to share tips on taking better care of ourselves. We flipped through the pages of your favorite romance novels with author Tia Williams, checked in with Grammy

award-winning artist Michelle Williams, and discussed the hurdles of balancing competitive sports, motherhood and mental health with Olympic athlete Natasha Hastings. Five years down and many more years of work to be done. Join us now by checking out the therapy for black girls podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right, Josh, that's the case for generally. Let's talk about people who are against this like Mr. Schofield. What are their arguments? Well, I get the impression that there's a lot of people who, well, the people who are against it are vehemently against it. One of the biggest arguments is that it's mutilation. Yeah, general mutilation. It is genital mutilation. Female

circumcision, which we'll talk a little bit more about in a minute, is basically considered now in the Western world, the developed world, female genital mutilation, not female circumcision any longer. And one of the big points among anti-circumcision people is that this is the same thing with men. It's just for some reason more accepted in the West than female circumcision is. Yeah, but if you're against it, you probably think it's old fashioned and unnecessary. Unnecessary is a big one. Yeah. The American Academy of Pediatrics considered this in 1999 and said, you know what? We're not going to endorse this. We're not going to come out against it, but we've looked at all of the information. We see no medical reason to do

this and we're not going to endorse it. So that's a big one that the anti-circumcision lobby cites. Yeah. When I read that, that they didn't endorse it or they said that you shouldn't do it. But this is such a tender subject that I kind of got the impression they were a little bit like, I ain't going there. Why don't you just decide? Right. Like we don't have a lot of data either way, so we're not going to say. It's, I get the impression that it's a lot like the natural birth movement. There's a lot of probably similar sentiment, maybe a lot of crossover actually between the two. Josh, there are risks of scarring. There are risks of infection.

Yeah, this is a big one right here. It can go wrong. Yeah, and it does. Like you can have your penis lopped off because of a bad circumcision. Yeah. That's a pretty good reason not to do it. I don't think it's super common, but it's very uncommon. Yeah, but when you're talking about your, maybe your only male son, it can only be a male son, but your only son, do you want to take that kind of risk? I don't know yet. Well, yeah, sure. I don't know. Stop pressuring me.

No, I'm not pressuring you. I was just, I'm not asking you. I'm just asking theoretically. But I think that's probably the sentiment among a lot of like first time parents. Now, sure. You know, like, should we do this? I haven't really thought about it before and like hold the count. Now we have to decide. Or do we? Another argument against is that you take away the child's right to choose. Yeah. There are, there is a procedure called an epipasm, which there's actually a surgical procedure, which is kind of a skin graft. Yeah. It's not always desirable. Sometimes you get a different color,

different texture because there's someone else's foreskin or else it's skin from elsewhere on your body. That's probably from your body, I would say. And then there's also like a non, there's non-surgical things you can do too, right Chuck? To create a new foreskin to recreate it. Yes, Josh. There are non-surgical ways and I have never heard of this at all. I hadn't either. Until I read this article. Over time, and we're not recommending that you try this at home, by the way, this is, this is something you really need to know a lot about. Over time though, you can apparently stretch your foreskin using weights and straps,

and it will eventually stretch to where it could cover your glands. That's what they say. There's another method that has involves inflating little balloons under your skin, under your penile skin, to prompt new skin cell growth. I guess to fill in the void. I guess so. And then when you deflate the balloons, you've got all that extra skin. Right. And you go ta-da. So that's an epipasm. So yeah, the point is one of the arguments against circumcision is that you take away

a kid's right to choose and if that kid turns like 18, 21, 35, 50 and goes, I really want a foreskin, basically he doesn't have a lot of options available to him. Balloons and weights and straps. And skin grafts. And skin grafts. Yeah. So that's, that's another reason. What are some more reasons, chuckers? Well, like we said, in the foreskin, there's a lot of sensitive areas for sexual stimulation,

and that once you lose that, it's gone. Yeah. So theoretically, you're cutting down on the man's pleasure centers, somewhat. Sure. And he wants to do that to your kid. Puritan? I don't know.

They say, you know, like psychologists might say that a child might remember this somehow. Resulting in lingering psychological repercussions. It's very Freudian sentence. Some people think it's better looking to have the foreskin in prettier that way. Yeah. I would like to conduct a poll. I don't know how we could do this conceivably, but I would like to, I know, not in not getting in trouble, but I am curious like where, like, which one is considered more attractive.

I have no idea. Yeah. So I'm, I'm, I'm very curious. Yeah. You know, like, is it like, do people think people who like a foreskin think those people are weird or vice versa? Or I'm very curious. This is all just, I'm curious.

This, you've been fascinated by this whole thing, huh? I have from page zero. Uh, and there are a couple of more reasons. Some men subconsciously might not feel complete. And then the big reason you're born with it. So that might mean that you should keep it on your body. Yeah. Like if we didn't need it, why would we have it when it have, whether you, whether you believe

in creationism or evolution, there's the, the, both of those kind of touch upon that. Yeah. We wouldn't have it if we didn't need it. Yeah. It didn't serve some purpose. Did you already cover the language part? I think you'd mention that. Right.

A little bit. If you are talking to somebody who is in the anti-circumcision camp, you don't want to use the term uncircumcised because it implies that there is something wrong, that there's something missing. Right. They, something hasn't been done yet. That's not the norm. Right.

And so they, the people in the anti-circumcision camp tend to prefer terms like natural. Yeah. Uncut, full length, intact. Intact. Yeah. Yeah. We'd be remiss, Josh. You did mention female genital mutilation.

This is a big problem around the world. Between 100 and 140 million women have been victims of this. A lot of times there are, I'm sorry, all the time there's no medical reason for doing this. Right. Like they will remove the clitoris sometimes. Yeah, this actually was kind of, it came about in the West too. It's still a huge problem in Africa. Apparently 92 million girls under the age of 10 have undergone female genital mutilation.

Awful. And that's just Africa alone. But in the West it was popular. I had no idea. But here in the West, in the United States. Really? Until 1977. Oh yeah.

Blue Cross covered it. That's nuts. Female, they covered clitorectomy, clitoridectomy. That's awful. Clitoridectomy, which is the partial total removal of the clitoris, right? And this fad of circumcision came about at about the same time in the 19th century and for the same reasons as male circumcision, which is yet another argument against male circumcision. Because we've come to see female circumcision as barbaric.

Right. Even though they were both brought up for the same reasons, which was it's cleaner, it's more hygienic, it's healthier. And also with girls they had the added bonus of it reduces their sexual pleasure from masturbation, therefore it's much more morally hygienic as well. This is one of the reasons why it's come to be seen as barbaric. Because it actually does reduce tremendously the sensitivity a woman can experience in sex. Sure.

Right. There's a lot of other problems with it too. There's a little procedure called infabulation that basically is you cut the inner outer labia so that it grows back to narrow or close the vagina. And what's the idea here? Are they, is it a moral thing where they're trying to prevent their daughters from being tempted to have sex or having sex? Yes, because to get this reversed, to have children, to have sex to conceive, to do all

these things, you basically have to have the procedure reversed. And then in some cultures that promote this after childbirth, after the reproductive years, it's closed up again. So not only are you undergoing it this first time, you're having a reverse and then you're having it done again. So it is a huge problem and it is viewed as barbaric in the West. And the World Health Organization has come out starting in 1997 against this. And then I guess over the ensuing decades, really lobbied the rest of the UN and got

much wider support in February 2008. Yeah. Pretty much the entire UN issued this statement saying like, this has to stop. Right. This is really bad, but it still continues. Yeah. It happens in the U.S., it happens in Great Britain, and a lot of the minority African populations that immigrate here, immigrate here, it's a problem.

Yeah. Well, thank God for the WHO in groups like UNICEF and other human rights groups who are trying to get the word out on that too. Right. But Chuck, we just arrived at a really kind of a hinky place. Like everybody agrees this is barbaric. One of the reasons why is because it serves absolutely no medical reason whatsoever. There's no medical purpose to it.

Right. It's all just basically chastity. Right, right. So we all agree that's barbaric. If there's really no medical reason for male circumcision. Isn't it the same thing? Is it barbaric? Yeah.

Well, people against it sure say it is. People like Scofield. Yeah. And I'm not here to make a judgment either way because I don't have a son at this point, but maybe that day will come when I'm going to have to make that decision. And hopefully we put out at least some facts and figures on both sides of the point. Some stats. Yeah.

It's tricky. Well, if you want to know more about circumcision and you want to see probably more illustrations of the male reproductive organ than any other article on the site, including cut here dots, cut along the dotted line dots, you can you can type circumcision into the search bar at howstuffworks.com. And that will bring all that stuff up. It's an interesting article. Right.

Yes, sir. Since I said handy search bar, well, I said search bar at least, right? Yeah. It's time for listener mail. Yes, Josh, I thought this might be appropriate. You asked for stories about people who had their fingers cut off and what podcast was that? One of them. Yes, one of the podcasts.

One of the things we did. And so we got a bunch of stories of people who have lost fingers. And I picked out three fairly short ones to read. The first one comes from Melanie from Minnesota. She did not lose a finger, but her husband's uncle did. He was doing some woodworking in his garage, sawed his thumb, index finger, and part of his middle finger clean off. His wife rushed him to the hospital.

They were able to reattach the thumb, but not his index finger. They were never able to find the rest of his ring finger, and they suspect that the dog ate it. He now has a prosthetic index finger, which he likes to remove and toss to people just to freak them out. He was a musician before the accident. He's still able to play the piano with his faux finger. Wowie.

Looks pretty cool. And he has a winter and summer version, one is tan and one isn't. No way. Way. Wow. This next one is from Abby from Hamden, Connecticut. Guys, I thought you might find this interesting. I am in fact missing two fingers, but I still have five fingers on each hand.

Awesome. Awesome. This one may win the prize. The same is true for my mother and her grandmother. We all have a slight genetic disorder called polydactylism, which is when you're born with extra pinkies. The extra fingers were all cut off at birth because the bones in them were not fully formed. So now we all have little bumps on the sides of our hands that were once pinkies.

That's circumcision of fingers. It is. I kind of wish I had kept the little extra fingers and that they were fully functional because I would use them to play impossible pieces of music. I told my bio teacher about polydactylism in high school. She got very excited and gave me extra credit. She gave her extra credit for missing those fingers. It's pretty cool.

Or she gave her extra credit for being born with two extra fingers. For being brave enough to admit it in a classroom setting. Yeah. All right. And this last one is from James from Ohio. Guys, I have a missing finger story. You might find disturbing or fascinating. In high school, my shop class teacher always had these crazy stories about his work

in the industry field. In the industry field? It's a pretty wide field. And one day he had a story to tell us about a man who was unfortunate enough to lose some fingers. The story starts when my shop teacher worked at a metal sheet shaping factory. I bet you it was a lot of fingers in one of those places. Sure.

They make impossible curves on metal that could normally exist. Fellow worker decided to pull an all-nighter and attempt to work machinery with coherency. Unfortunately, the fingers of the worker were caught in the metal working machine, pinched, clean off, not cut, pinched off. My teacher explained that it took about a half an hour to find all the missing fingers, keep them cool in a fridge until they were able to reattach them. It's like the machinist. Christian Bale.

Man, that movie was messed up. Yes, it was. So we got a lot more stories and a lot were very detailed and more gruesome. So we went with these because they were short and a little lighter. Thank you for that, Chuck. That's very good. That's all I got. If you have an email that has absolutely nothing to do with that,

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