Stuff You Should Know - How Comas Work

Episode Date: January 27, 2009

Several conditions can cause comas, including brain tumors and overdoses. Tune in as the crew discusses the causes and treatments of comas -- including some miraculous recoveries -- in this HowStuffWorks podcast. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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like what we would call a jack move or being robbed. They call civil acid work. Be sure to listen to The War on Drugs on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Brought to you by the reinvented 2012 Camry. It's ready, are you? Welcome to Stuff You Should Know from HowStuffWorks.com. This episode is sponsored by GoDaddy.com, the world's largest web host and domain name registrar. With domains as low as $1.99 and hosting for less than $5 a month. Enter promo code STUFF10 at checkout and save 10% off your entire order. Get your piece of the internet at GoDaddy.com. Hello and welcome to the podcast.

I'm Josh. I'm Chuck. The red light is on. Do we have one of those? No, we need one. Yeah, we totally do. It's usually just a, you know, we hear our producer Jerry pressing a button. Right. And then we know to go. We just start talking, like talking monkeys. It's like a German, the German train system. It's very efficient. Yes, it is Chuck. Chuck, as you know, it's been an altogether rotten day so far, right? Yeah, hasn't been our best. What is it? Like three, three 30 in the afternoon? Yeah. Yes. Okay. So, um, luckily it'll be over soon enough. Yes. And it's Friday. Um, I am even worse than I was before because rather than getting my usual fresca, I got a Diet Cherry Coke by accident and, you know, all respect to the cold, cold company

they've done really well for themselves, but Diet Cherry Coke is atrocious. I like that you're suffering through it anyway, rather than wasting it. You know, I've got to, I've got to make do, but, um, honorable, you know, as bad as our day has been, right? Yeah. I can tell you somebody whose day was even worse. Who's that? How's that first segue? I actually just set up the setup for the podcast. What do you think? You're blowing my mind. Um, there's this woman named, uh, Patricia Whitebowl. Uh-huh. And she was a Cochiti Indian from outside of Albuquerque, New Mexico. And back when she was a lovely young 28, she was giving birth to her fourth child, son named Mark. And, uh, she was giving birth via C-section and there were complications in the surgery. And, uh,

Mrs. Whitebowl, uh, developed a, a blood clot in her lung and it actually cut off oxygen to her brain and she lapsed into a coma. Wow. Okay. So, comas actually happen, they can happen fairly frequently. They're not uncommon. Right. But Mrs. Whitebowl's type of coma actually is very rare. She was in a coma for 16 years. Holy cow. Which is, that's really, that's a long time to be in a coma. It is. Uh-huh. So, um, there are other people out there like her. Um, have you heard of, uh, Sonny von Bulow? Yeah. Reversal of fortune? Sure. Yeah. So she's been in a coma for 19 years. Really? Uh-huh. And a couple years back, actually, she was moved from this, um, very, very expensive, um, care facility to a slightly less expensive one. It was estimated that her family was spending

about half a million dollars on her care, as well as, uh, hair stylists and manicures and stuff like that. So it finally had to say, we got to move you, Ma. Right. Um, was she in the coma from the attempted murder? Yes. Really? Allegedly by her husband, Klaus von Bulow. Right. He recently passed away. Correct. Actually, um, it was she who passed away. Oh, okay. She did. Um, and this is actually kind of common. I'm not sure how she passed away, but, uh, people in comas sometimes, uh, pass away from pneumonia or something like that. Right. Their, their body's not functioning very well, so they can succumb to things like that. Well, apologies for not being up on my, uh, von Bulow history. Hey, same here, pal. It's okay. Things move pretty fast in this crazy world of ours.

They do. So back to, uh, Mrs. Weibull. Um, while Mrs. von Bulow never woke up, Mrs. Weibull actually did. After 16 years, this is amazing. This is exceedingly rare. Wow. Uh, rarer than a 16 plus year coma is waking up from a 16 plus year coma. Basically, um, she woke up one day while her, uh, one of her caregivers was adjusting the sheets on her bed. Really? And she lift her head and shouted, don't do that. And scared, I imagine, the daylights out of this woman. Oh yeah. Uh, and, uh, after that, she was writing notes to her family. She called her mother to say, Merry Christmas has happened in December, 1999. Um, and within like a month, she was at a mall. She wanted to see, you know, how the world had changed. So she went to a mall.

She went to a mall. It's actually a pretty good place to start. Yeah, you're right. Because I mean, back when she fell into a coma, Reagan had just started his second term. Right. Right. Um, there, just think about how much the world changed between 1984 and 1999. Right. No kidding. And she woke up just in time to get nervous for Y2K. Yeah. You know, good timing. Yeah. Wow. That's awesome. Isn't that a, it's kind of an uplifting story. We could end it right here and I would be happy, probably. I would too, actually, but we're not. Yeah. So you want to talk about comas then? I think so. I take it from that solicitation. Yes. All right. Well, uh, Chuck, let me start. Okay. Because I haven't spoken enough so far. I agree. I'm just going to kick it off with coma comes from

the Greek word coma appropriately enough. Right. With a K. With a K. That's the big distinction. And that word is to sleep in the Greek dialect. Uh-huh. Um, and that's actually pretty misleading, isn't it? It is because, uh, when you're asleep, you can wake up and if you're in a coma, you're not waking up. You don't respond to stimuli like, uh, you know, sight or motor function, stuff like that. Yeah. And so you can sit there and shout all day at a coma patient. They're not waking up. Right. Um, they also don't respond to pain stimuli. True. Um, there, there's, they're just basically out. Right. But the brain, uh, functions. Part of it does, right? Right. Okay. So, um, we should probably talk about the brain to understand a coma. You kind of have to

have a, a minor understanding of the brain, right? Um, major understanding. Yeah. Major understanding. Exactly. Um, so we've got basically three parts. Yes. That work to make us these, you know, talking monkeys that we are. Right. Um, you got the cerebrum cerebellum and the brain stem. Uh-huh. Uh, and they communicate with one another. So your cerebrum, what, that's your higher brain. Yeah. That's, uh, controls things like, uh, emotion, memory, intelligence, personality, reason, context. Yeah. It's what most people think of when they think of the brain, all that good stuff's in there. Right. And it's the largest part too. And then you've got the cerebellum, which is in charge of balance of movement. Right. Also very important. And then the most

ancient part of the brain, um, evolutionarily speaking is the brain stem. Right. This is like the basic part of the brain. It controls like, um, breathing, blood pressure, right, bowel movements, actually. Yeah. Body, body functions. Exactly. So, um, you put all these together and you've got us intelligent reasoning, pooping humans. Yeah. Wrap a skull around it and some skin and, uh, you've got a human. Exactly. Um, and all these things have to kind of communicate. Right. With one another. And they do so through the thalamus. Uh-huh. Um, and they send chemical signals to one another, um, that makes your lungs, uh, inflate and deflate and makes you think, this person's making fun of me or they're after me or something. Right. Um,

there, there's all this stuff combined, as you said, makes us this way. If they stop talking to one another, you got yourself an altered state of consciousness. Exactly. And there's quite a few of those. Yeah. You want to talk about some of the other altered states? Uh, well, yeah, there's a vegetative state that a lot of people, um, get confused with coma. It's not exactly the same thing. Uh, and a vegetative state is actually a type of coma. Um, but you're generally awake, but unresponsive. So your eyes can be open, uh, but you're still unresponsive. It is generally confused with, with coma because it usually comes after a coma. Correct. Um, these people like, uh, Mrs. Whitebowl and Mrs. Von Bulo, who were in comas for dozens of years or tens of years,

um, were, uh, in a vegetative state after X amount of time. Right. So if you're in a coma and you go into a vegetative state, you're probably in a lot of trouble. You're probably not going to come out of it. Right. Um, you, you, some part of your brainstem responds to similar stimuli, like maybe a, uh, a sound. So all of a sudden your eyes, um, which are no longer coordinated. So they're kind of lolling around, but both in the same direction toward the sound, but there's no awareness of it. You're not, you're not using any of your higher brain function to figure out what the sound is. It's just like a, a basic response. Right. Your eyes can move. I believe that there could be like yawning even. You can yawn. Yeah. You're in a vegetative

state kind of thing. Blinking. And the, the one real, um, hallmark of a vegetative state is people in it have sleep cycles. So, so, you know, during the day, they're diurnal still during the day, they will, you know, blink or their eyes will lull about in their head or they'll turn their, their head towards something. Um, and then at night they're not doing that. They're sleeping. Sure. And in a coma, you're just, you just appear to be sleeping the whole time. Exactly. So that's one. There's another one that is one of my particular favorite altered states of consciousness. Stupor. That actually scared me. Okay. Apparently if you are whacked out of your skull on drugs and you're in a stupor, you're like one or two steps away from comatose. Yeah. It's all the same processes

going on. It's just, I guess, to a slightly different degree. Right. But that's, that's alarming. Yeah, it is. You know, so watch out, buddy. I'm watching out. But I distract you. I know which one you were going to talk about. You just like to say stupor. I do. Um, the one I like the most is locked in syndrome. Yeah. I can't believe I just said that. The one I like the most. The one you find most fascinating. Thank you, Chuck. Locked in syndrome is basically where you're, you can move your higher brain is, or you can't move. You're totally aware, though. Your higher brain is functioning. Exactly. You are literally locked into your body. And basically the only thing you can move are your eyes, typically. Right. And that's like Jean-Dominique Bobie

from The Diving Bell and the Butterfly. Right. Which is a great movie. We were just talking with Jerry, our producer beforehand. We've both seen the film. It's really, really, really great. But you have not because you're too busy watching Magnum PI. Quite you. Yeah. I have, I know enough about the, the story when it came out, you know, I listened to NPR and they talked about that, like seven days in a row, I think. It's really good. But the guy, because he could move his eyes, he had a computer software system that he could type with it. Yeah. But he, and he wrote a book in his, in this locked in state. Yes. Right. And he typed every single letter of this book. By looking at, at the, by choosing like a keyboard, right. Or from, from like a computer screen

keyboard. I believe that's what happened. That's nuts. In 1968, five black girls, dressed in oversized military fatigues, were picked up by the police in Montgomery, Alabama. I was tired and just didn't want to take it anymore. The girls had run away from a reform school called the Alabama Industrial School for Negro children. And they were determined to tell someone about the abuse they'd suffered there. Picture the worst environment for children that you possibly can. I believe Mt. Mags was patterned after slavery. I didn't understand why I had to go through what I was going through and for what. I'm writer and reporter, Josie Duffy Rice. And in a new podcast, I investigate how this reform school went from being a safe haven for

black kids to a nightmare. And how those five black girls changed everything. All that on unreformed. Listen to unreformed on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. In 1980, cocaine was captivating and corrupting Miami. Miami had become the murder capital of the United States. They were making millions of dollars. I would categorize it as the Wild Wild West. Unleashing a wave of violence. My God took a walk into the devil's den. The car killed. They just killed everybody that was home. They start pulling out pictures of Clay Williams body taken out in the Everglades. A world orbiting around a mysterious man with a controversial claim. This drug pilot by the name of Lamora Chester. He never ran

anything but grass until I turned over that load of coke to him on the island. Chester would claim he did it all for the CIA. Pulling many into a sprawling federal investigation. So Clay wasn't the only person who was murdered. Oh no, not by a long shot. I'm Lauren Bright Pacheco. Join me for murder in Miami. Listen to Murder in Miami on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. But I mean imagine that. Imagine being locked in. I know. And knowing exactly what was going on. I know. Very frustrating, I imagine. It's very much like the Metallica video one. Except that guy could move. Right. Which was from the film Johnny got his gun, I think. Thank you. Wow. Very nice. My fountain of film knowledge today. So those are a couple of other altered

states of consciousness in case you're interested. If not, you should have fast forwarded through the last what minute and a half, maybe two. And we're back to coma again. Okay, so somebody falls into a coma. How does this happen? What are some of the ways you can become comatose? Well, there's a bunch of ways. One way is from brain injury, obviously. If you have severe head trauma, you can get an impact that actually makes your brain move within your skull. And I know that if your brain actually hits your skull, that's what a concussion is, correct? I believe so. But something more severe than that can cause nerve blood vessels and nerve fibers to swell up. And that can potentially cut off the flow of blood and therefore oxygen to the brain. And that's when

you're in trouble. You want your skull to be stationary at all times. Yes. Or you want your brain to be stationary at all times in your skull. Yes. That's just not good when it slaps around in there. No, it's not. So you can also become comatose if you have diabetes. Right. Diabetes, certain diseases like meningitis can make it happen. Drug overdose can make it happen. Yeah. Although I believe you told me they don't even know exactly how that happens. I don't know how it happens. I couldn't find out what leads to it. The way I took it was that there's a, it slows your response. It may be it slows the oxygen to your brain or the flow of oxygen to your brain, or it just relaxes muscles that need to be working. I don't know. I literally

off the top of my head right now. I sense a neurosurgeon email in the near future to clean this up for us. Yeah, I hope so. Because I want to know. But yeah, there are plenty of ways that you can slip into a coma. And actually you can slip into a coma. You can go through stages of altered consciousness and then end up comatose, which is the granddaddy worst one of all. Although I don't know, lockdown is probably worse. Right. But it can happen gradually. That's a good point. Or it can happen very quickly, like, you know, through a major concussion, through car accident or something like that. If you slipped into a diabetic coma, that would happen gradually usually. Right. Exactly. You might get feverish and dizzy and lethargic,

and then all of a sudden you're in a coma, which is frightening. It is. Do you have diabetes? No. Me neither. I might one day, though. I think my father got it later in his life. Is it genetic? I don't know. I sense another letter from a person with diabetes to clear that up. At this point, we could just start asking questions. We should do like a 20 minute reader mail segment. Right. Just correcting ourselves every time. That's a good idea. All right. So what do you do if you're in a coma? I mean, here, let me just say one thing real quick. After researching comas, you know how when you have a heart attack, your heart actually isn't stopped. It's gone out of its rhythmic beat. Sure. So when you are zapped, right, when they

hit you with the paddles, what they're doing is actually stopping your heart to give it a chance to restart. Right. With a coma, it seems like the pattern of discussion between the different parts of your brain that make you conscious and aware, it's been interrupted, but we don't know how to zap it back into place. Exactly. That's a good way to say it. But, you know, I mean, you still have to care for these people. Exactly. You can't just say, well, you know, we don't really know how to do anything to make you better. Right. There are some ways drug overdose. If you keep, if you sustain someone's life processes, they can come out after the drug begins to wear off or same with alcohol poisoning. Right. Diabetic coma. They can be treated. Yeah.

But one, say like from a major brain injury, you may be in big trouble or stroke. Sure. I think the first thing that has to happen is a doctor has to determine whether or not you're actually in a coma. That's the first step. Yeah. How do they do that? Well, there's a couple of a couple of scales they use to determine your level of alertness. And one is from Glasgow. It's called the Glasgow coma scale. Oh, is that how it said it? There's no accident associated with it? I'm not going to try my Scottish accent. And then there's the Rancho Los Amigos scale. No, I'm not going to do that either. All right. We're going to remain respectful in this one. And basically, the doctors use these two scales, and there's varying tests of responsiveness with your eyes, verbal responses,

motor responses to various stimuli. And so they do this to determine they use both of these scales actually to basically gauge how alert you are and whether or not you're in fact in a coma. So is it like a they just clap loudly next to your ears and command you to sit up or something like that? I would say so. I mean, they use like do your eyes open when someone speaks to you? Do your eyes open when there's pain involved? So there's all kinds of little ways that they can check. Yeah, I guess they want to determine whether you're in a coma or whether you're just, you know, resting your eyes or playing possum because of what comes after that. Right. And while they assign you a score and arrange from three to 15, three being a very deep coma and 15 being... That's

right now, right? Yeah, I'm about 14, but yeah. All right. So we've established you're in a coma. It's awful. You're a three. Right. All right. So you are just completely dead to the world, but you're still alive amazingly. Right. That would be comatose and unresponsive is the official classification of that deep of a coma. Okay. So you're in there. If you're in a car injury, what they're going to do, they're going to triage your symptoms, your problems. Right. So if you're in a car wreck or something, you have injuries from that, they're going to, you know, control the bleeding, that kind of thing. Yeah. They want to stabilize everything else first. Right. Or not first, but, you know. Once you're stable though, and you're still in a coma, you can't care for

yourself any longer. So it's kind of like they're going to poke around to determine what the cause is maybe. They'll use an EEG, electroencephalography. Right. Or MRI or fMRI, which is basically an MRI for the brain. Right. Or CT scan, which has computed tomography. Right. Now they'll use all these things to basically either look inside, an EEG actually is basically kind of like hooking into your electrical system and checking out, you know, how the impulses are doing. Right. And they'll diagnose, you know, maybe what caused the coma, that kind of thing. So once you're stabilized, diagnosed in a coma, you know, you've been given the scale rating. And you're in for the long haul clearly. Right. You're stable. Yeah. They're going to basically use machines to care

for you, like feeding tubes. Right. Oftentimes somebody in a prolonged coma or vegetative state, they'll perform a tracheotomy. Sure. So they don't have to innovate you. Because after a while, the innovation tube, I imagine, gets real, you know, uncomfortable. Right. That actually so much so that you would prefer a hold of the throat. Right. Yeah. And let me, it's a little aside. One of my best friends, a guy named Jen's Beatty, in sixth grade, his mom started choking in a restaurant and actually had an emergency tracheotomy with a steak knife and a pen performed on her. Yeah. There was a doctor there who did it. And he just went holy cow. She was breathing again. That's a worst case scenario right there. She used to have this little scar. I'm sure she

I'm sure she still does, but it was crazy. Yeah. The only person I ever knew who had an emergency tracheotomy at this day. I thought that was something just, you know, you get on the ER or house or something like that. Exactly. Yeah. It happens. It happens. In 1968, five black girls dressed in oversized military fatigues were picked up by the police in Montgomery, Alabama. I was tired and just didn't want to take it anymore. The girls had run away from a reform school called the Alabama Industrial School for Negro children. And they were determined to tell someone about the abuse they'd suffered there. Picture the worst environment for children that you possibly can. I believe Mt. Mags was patterned after slavery. I didn't understand why I had to go

through what I was going through and for what. I'm writer and reporter, Josie Duffy Rice. And in a new podcast, I investigate how this reform school went from being a safe haven for black kids to a nightmare and how those five black girls changed everything. All that on unreformed. Listen to unreformed on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. In 1980, cocaine was captivating and corrupting Miami. Miami had become the murder capital of the United States. They were making millions of dollars. I would categorize it as the Wild Wild West. Unleashing a wave of violence. My God, talking about walking into the devil's den. The car sales, they just killed everybody that was home. They started pulling

out pictures of Clay Williams' body taken out in the Everglades. A world orbiting around a mysterious man with a controversial claim. This drug pilot by the name of Lamar Chester. He never ran anything but grass until I turned over that load of coke to him on the island. Chester would claim he did it all for this CIA. Pulling many into a sprawling federal investigation. So Clay wasn't the only person who was murdered? Not by a long shot. I'm Lauren Bright Pacheco. Join me for murder in Miami. Listen to murder in Miami on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So back to comas. Another thing that is often done is physical therapy, just to keep the muscles moving. The nurses will move the patient to prevent bed sores,

and then move the muscles, flex the legs to keep atrophy from setting in. Right. Or if you're umathermine, you can do a really focused regime within an eight hour period, and you'll be walking again. True. So how we need to bring this down a little bit, don't we? I think so. Yeah. Because researching it, it's when you really get a grasp on comas and the peculiar nature of them, and just the fact that we have no way to bring somebody out of a coma. Right. It's kind of heartbreaking to think that there are families out there who go to the hospital every day or every week. Hoping. And yeah, and you hope because there's people like Patricia Wiple who sit up all of a sudden, and there you have it. You know, somebody can come out of a long coma. That's rough. True. I've

got a study for you that might encourage you a bit. I'd love to hear it. It's from 2006. It's from Dr. Adrian Owen of Cambridge University, a neuroscientist, and he's trying to determine a consciousness meter for people in comas and vegetative states. So what he does is he hooks a normal healthy person up to an fMRI machine, which you know, you understand how that works, right? Well, it basically it uses magnetic imaging to see through the skull, and basically it's watching the brain and it's watching the electrical activity in the brain. So if you know that the prefrontal cortex lights up when you tell somebody to, you know, when somebody sees a bunny, you'll know that the prefrontal cortex is involved in taking cuteness into context or something.

Well, I'm impressed. Oh, thanks. So he'll hook up a healthy person and then someone in a coma or vegetative state and ask them to do something like imagine playing a game of tennis. I believe is what he is on this one woman. And he found that the brain activity was really similar for both of these people, which led him to believe that there may be a lot more brain activity going on in some of these different states of mind. So that pretty much flatly contradicts our understanding of vegetative states. True, but it also this was one one person I believe that it was successful in and I'm sure there's been subsequent studies since, but he himself said that, you know, we need to keep studying this kind of thing before you make any determinations. Yeah. Yeah. We need to

basically figure out how to bring people out of coma. Right. But it does happen. You can come out of a coma. No, you totally can't. You can't bring someone out of a coma. But I think they said that 87% who score a three or four on the scale within the first 24 hours are likely to either die or remain in the vegetative state. So that's no good. And but on the other side, 87% who score between 11 to 15 are likely to make a good recovery. So well, it makes sense. I mean, if you can, you know, shake somebody's hand when they tell you to, right, you're probably going to make it. But apparently it says first 24 hours are really telling. Yeah, I would imagine so. So that's, that's comas, huh? That's my understanding of the great medical mystery that still remains yet

solved one day. Maybe hope so. All right, chilling. Chuck, you want to do listener mail? Yeah, let's do listener mail. And I'm starting to separate listener mail into different categories. The cream from the rest of the crop, as it were, the men from the boys. Well, just more like a good way of women from the girls. Shut it. So first of all, we've decided to change this one part to stuff we should know. This is instead of corrections. A lot of times they're not an actual correction, but something a listener has added that we did not realize and stuff we should have known stuff we should have known. We can call it that. But that actually came from Brian Smith of California suggested we call it that. Yeah, we are actively

following our listeners' commands at this point. So Brian, we appreciate the title there and we're going to use that now. So something we did miss in the body armor episode. We talked about a lot of kinds of body armor, which was good, but we failed to mention one new, very awesome one called dragon skin armor. And apparently these are little small overlapping ceramic discs, sort of like the medieval scale mail. And it's just a modern version, essentially, and it's more effective from repeated hits from a bullet. So a lot, quite a few people sent this in. Michael Chivitz, retired naval officer, or I don't know about officer, but retired U.S. Navy. Reno Marino or Renee Marino from Brooklyn and Devin Montes in California. And I'm sure we missed

a few others. But yeah, we actually got a lot of mail about the dragon scales. And I say I find it comforting to know that we're advancing light years now. Right. And I have one more quick one. And this is apropos to our topic today of comas. John Mulqueen is a doctor in Massachusetts. And John wrote in and said, I thought it would never happen, but I heard a mistake on stuff you should know. Exorcism apparently, you said, this is not me, you said that someone with epilepsy, you could throw somebody in an MRI machine and look at the parts of the brain and see that someone is epileptic. And John says that actually you would not see epilepsy in an MRI. Caesars are diagnosed with an EEG machine, which is what we just spoke about. Gotcha. We appreciate that

correction. Yeah, thank you. Is he from is he from Farmington? Framingham. No, it's from Gardner Man's. Well, X X O O to all of our listeners who sent mail and you too can send mail. You can send it to stuff podcast at how stuff works.com. I got to tell you, there's plenty more information on comas in the great article on the site called how comas work. Just type those three little words into our handy search bar. And of course, how stuff works.com. For more on this and thousands of other topics, visit howstuffworks.com. Brought to you by the reinvented 2012 Camry. It's ready. Are you? The war on drugs is the excuse our government uses to get away with absolutely insane stuff, stuff that'll piss you off. The cops, are they just like looting? Are they just like pillaging?

They just have way better names for what they call like what we would call a jack move or being robbed. They call civil asset. Be sure to listen to the war on drugs on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast. Hey, I'm Lance Bass, host of the new iHeart podcast Frosted Tips with Lance Bass. Do you ever think to yourself, what advice would Lance Bass and my favorite boy bands give me in this situation? If you do, you've come to the right place because I'm here to help and a different hot sexy teen crush boy bander each week to guide you through life. Tell everybody everybody about my new podcast and make sure to listen so we'll never ever have to say bye bye bye. Listen to Frosted Tips with Lance Bass on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcast

or wherever you listen to podcasts.