Stuff You Should Know - How Fair Trade Works

Episode Date: May 7, 2013

The West has gotten rich off the backs of underpaid labor living elsewhere; people who are dedicated to Fair Trade feel it's time people at a disadvantage should stop being exploited. The concept is simple - just pay workers fairly for their labor. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Hey, everybody, do you ever scream at your printer or hurl empty ink cartridges across the room? We all do, which means that you likely suffer from cartridge conniptions caused by irritating ink cartridges constantly running out of ink. It's the worst, everybody. We can all agree on that. But thankfully, the Epson EcoTank Printer is the perfect cure.

It's cartridge-free, conniption-free, and prescription-free. With big ink tanks and a ridiculous amount of ink, you can finally kiss expensive ink cartridges goodbye. Yeah, so check out the Epson EcoTank. Just fill and chill. Available at participating retailers and at epson.com. Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, from house-to-works.com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast.

I'm Josh Clark, and there's Charles W. Chuck Bryant. This is the 500-something time that I said that. Oh, yeah, we're not to the 60s yet, are we? No, no, it's gonna be a little while. What are we, mid-fives? Yeah, I don't know. Like, we hit 500, what, around January, end of January. It's a lot of knowledge we're doling out for free, folks.

Yeah, we're like, we're in like 520, maybe. Oh, really? Yeah, I thought I might be more than that. You doing okay? I'm great. Good. How are you? Okay, like, my back hurts a little bit,

and Yumi's convinced that it's a kidney infection onset, so she's like, you need to drink a lot of apple cider vinegar and baking soda diluted in water and cranberry juice. That's what I'm doing. And water. Yeah, that one, too. But I've got stuff diluted in water, so that counts. Yeah.

But it's kind of rough. You know, I don't know that your coffee counts as water. No, it does, actually. You know, the whole, you should drink eight, eight ounce glasses of water a day. You can factor in coffee. Yeah, and it's totally made up. Like, no one's ever said that you really should do that.

It just kind of came on as like an early meme, I guess. And there's not any evidence that an adult human living in a temperate climate of average health couldn't survive without any additional water on a daily basis, because we get it from things like food and other stuff. I think the idea is that you benefit from drinking water. Again, there's not necessarily any scientific evidence

that you benefit from drinking water. It's pretty much made up. I'm not so sure about that. I'm telling you, look it up. I'll get back to you on that. Okay, all right. We'll have a look up off. Okay.

But that's not what this is about, Chuck. Nor is it about my possibly impending kidney infection in hospitalization. It is about the idea that everyone around the world deserves to make a decent, sustainable living wage. Agreed. Or should at the very least get a, you should see the fruits of their labor in a fair way.

Yeah. This kind of flies in the face of something called capitalism. The free market system. A little bit. Because in the free market system, one of the big things you have is pretty much every man for himself.

Now, everyone in a free market system completely theoretical, unfettered free market system has the opportunity to enjoy the fruit of his or her labors, has the opportunity to make a decent livable wage. But one could also argue that the bounds of power has tipped so far in favor of a consolidated, internationally connected view that that's just not a real possibility anymore.

That theory, that theoretical version is now an impossibility. Right. I think, hey, now might be a good time to recommend to people to go listen to our previous podcast is the free market really free. Oh yeah, that's a good one. Wasn't that the name of that one?

Yeah, that was a good one. That was a good one. So because this bounds of power has tipped so far, posts pretty much post World War II is when it happened. There are some people out there who have come up with the idea that maybe we should go an extra mile and make sure that the people who are actually making all the things we enjoy,

for example, coffee, wine, soccer balls, people who- Bananas. Bananas, it's a big one. People who actually make these things get an income that is something that anyone who is on the receiving end of these bananas and coffee would recognize as a livable amount of money in return for what they're giving us.

That's right. This is not a call for communism. No. This is a call for fair pay via something called fair trade. Yeah. And the idea is that you and I and whoever else wants to support this kind of cause might not mind going into their local- And we're going to use coffee a lot

because that's one of the big daddies in fair trade. Yeah, that's the big daddy, right? Might not mind going into their coffee shop or their grocery store wherever you hunt down your coffee and paying a little bit more for your coffee. It's got that fair trade stamp on there knowing that ultimately the worker who picked those beans is going to be cared for in a humane, fair way.

It's going to get a decent amount of money for their product. Exactly. And you kind of hit something on the head when you said seeing that fair trade label. There's a really big distinction between a product that carries a certified fair trade label and something that's marketed as fairly traded.

That means nothing. It means absolutely nothing. They might as well say like the contents inside are orange and green maybe. Yeah, it's the whole misleading labeling of things. Yeah, which is pretty. Just like the organic deal, certified organic versus this crap food that will say contains naturally ingredients

or things like that. Yeah. Emily has to fight and sped all the time with her company because she's one of the people that tries to only use fair trade ingredients and 100% certified organic. And she gets angry every day when she sees products, body products, that slap something on their label

like naturally good. And people think that means it's all natural. Or all natural. That doesn't mean that it's 100% organic or all natural. No, I know. It needs to be regulated more. And it's such a cynical thing to exploit, like something that really meant something

at one point in time for dollars to market something that doesn't mean anything. It's actually not good for you and marketing it as good for you while using an already established consumer trusted label or phrasing. That's just sad. It's one of the wrong things in the world. But let's just say that.

That's why fair trade people, fair trade groups have, they jealously guard their labels so that when you do see them, you can't trust what's going on. Yeah, and companies that mislead with their labels also make their labels look like the other labels even. And the font and the color is just like, it's so underhanded. It's really awful.

So let's talk about the background of this. All right, it started in the 1950s with something called Alternative Trade Organizations, ATOs. Not the fraternity, ATOs. They were doing beer bongs and other things. I couldn't say what I was going to say. I think everybody knows. They were humanitarian groups that started this.

And basically, they wanted to alleviate poverty in developing nations by cutting out middlemen between small producers in the North, Northern Hemisphere, and small businesses in the Southern Hemisphere, which meant more profits directly going to workers who picked the bean again with coffee. And then I guess over time, they found that this process could work, but you really do need middlemen, right?

Yeah, not always, but depending on where you are in the process, sure. Right, but if you're using the existing, I guess, trade routes and system of trade that's been established globally in the world, there are middlemen. Like you have a coffee grower in Ethiopia. He can't get that to you in New England. You do need a middleman.

What they figured out with fair trade is that you can certify the people in between to make sure that the money is getting to the producer. And rather than cutting out the middleman to increase the income of the original producer in the developing country, you go to the consumer and they're consuming it and say, hey, you mind paying a little more for this?

And in return, we will guarantee you that the person who made this coffee that you're doing gets that money, that extra money. Like you are basically essentially sending it to this guy, and we're the ones who are going to make sure that happens. And we're going to do so through this labeling. That's right. And in 1988 is actually when the labeling itself

was born with a Dutch ATO called Solidaridad. Is that all right, Solidaridad? Did you see we got yet another email about our pronunciation? We try people. That's part of the charm of the show. Some people don't like it. I understand that. So Solidaridad from the Dutch region of the world,

from Amsterdam, from the Netherlands, from Holland, from all those places. They said we should label these things, help people out when they're shopping, get them in the main street markets without compromising the trust that consumer has in these products. And that is basically where fair trade was born.

And we do have one stat here. In 2001, not super recent, but just to show you in how people pay for coffee, coffee fluctuates in price. It's like any commodity. It's a commodity, yeah. So in 2001, the price stepped really low. And the coffee growers were receiving only about $0.45

per pound for coffee. But fair trade coffee buyers paid $1.21 per pound that year to ensure that these people, despite the fluctuations, were able to keep the lights on for their businesses. Because every fair trade organization sets a minimum price, a minimum fair price, that their producers are going to get, no matter what. No matter what the market does, no matter what.

And I believe if the market goes up, they get the higher of the two. But at the very least, they're getting that minimum price for their product. The war on drugs impacts everyone. Whether or not you take drugs. America's public enemy number one is drug abuse. This podcast is going to show you the truth behind the war

on drugs. They told me that I would be charged for conspiracy to distribute 2,200 pounds of marijuana. Yeah, and they can do that without any drugs on the table. Without any drugs, of course, yes, they can do that. And I'm the prime example of that. The war on drugs is the excuse our government uses to get away with absolutely insane stuff.

Stuff that'll piss you off. The property is guilty, exactly. And it starts as guilty. It starts as guilty. Cops, are they just, like, looting? Are they just, like, pillaging? They just have way better names for what they call, like, what we would call a jackmove, or being robbed.

They call civil acid for it. Ha, ha, ha, ha. Be sure to listen to the war on drugs on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. How's that New Year's resolution coming along? You know the one you made about paying off your pesky credit card debt and finally starting to save for retirement?

Well, you're not alone if you haven't made progress yet. Roughly four in five New Year's resolutions fail within the first month or two. But that doesn't have to be the case for you and your goals. Our podcast, How to Money, can help. That's right. We're two best buds who've been at it for more than five years now, and we want to see you achieve your money goals.

And it's our goal to provide the information and encouragement you need to do it. We keep the show fresh by answering list of questions, interviewing experts, and focusing on the relevant financial news that you need to know about. Our show is chock full of the personal finance knowledge that you need with guidance three times a week.

And we talk about debt payoff. If, let's say you've had a particularly spend-thrift holiday season, we also talk about building up your savings, intelligent investing, and growing your income. No matter where you are on your financial journey, How to Money has got your back. Millions of listeners have trusted us

to help them achieve their financial goals. Ensure that your resolution turns into ongoing progress. Listen to How to Money on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So what is an FLO? This is sort of how it starts, or how the process itself starts. Are you on to talk about that?

Yeah, sure. The Fair Trade Labeling Organization. So that's one of them. There's a number of labeling organizations. Like there's TransFair USA. There's a European Fair Trade Association. And apparently, I guess the FLO is like the agency that oversees the agencies.

Oh, is that what it is? That's the impression that I have. But basically, say that you are a coffee roaster. And again, we're going with coffee because that's the big one. And you say, hey, I really want to get in on this fair trade action. For whatever reason, it doesn't matter

if you want to increase your own sales or whatever. It doesn't matter. You can't exploit this process, right? Yeah, sure. No, but that's the thing. The coffee roaster can be like, everybody's into this fair trade thing. And I think I can sell a lot more if I go through this process.

So let me do it. And they contact the FLO or a labeling organization. They say, great, we will sell you a license for 10,000 pounds of fair trade coffee beans. Yeah, so it's a contract for a set amount. Yes. Now, what they could do is set the coffee roaster up with an already certified fair trade producer

and supply chain. Or they can go in and say, we can go ahead and certify your existing supply chain and producer. And that's what they do. The coffee roaster pays for that license, sends the FLO out. They go through the supply chain, make sure that all this money is going back to the producer who is expected to get it, right?

Yeah, and they actually send people, human people, visit farms to ensure that all their business practices and their farmers are adhering to these procedures. And not only that, they also add a dash of sustainability. That they're not using horrible environmental techniques for their stuff. And, but yes, basically to make sure that this producer isn't just like a dole disguised as some dude.

Right. They're going to do some detective work. And once they figure out that everything's legit and it falls into the fair trade standards, which we'll talk about later, then that's certified. The license is exercised and that 10,000 pounds is delivered. And that guy can put that on that 10,000 pounds. Yeah, and it's not always just a one-time visit.

They can also follow up with periodic inspections to ensure that you keep up with that kind of governance and you didn't just pull a fast one on them and get out your house in order for one day while they came in and did your visit. And the license is usually, there's a contract involved. So the middlemen who are involved have to participate in these standards.

And one of the standards is you have to sign at least a six-month contract usually, which is actually kind of a lot for these producers. Because a middleman can be like, oh, this guy's selling it for way cheaper. I'm going over to him. No, this producer's guaranteed six months of going to this middleman and getting the money from them.

Well, yeah, and like you said, six months doesn't sound like much. But I get the feeling that it was just like it's the Wild West out there. Yeah. You know, like you can drop someone from day to day. Yeah, well, they can be like, well, this guy's selling it for a penny less and you've forced this guy down.

And now this guy's down to $0.02, so you go to another guy and be like, this guy's down to $0.02. You can just play as many small farmers as you want against one another and drive prices down as low as you want. That fair trade prevents that from happening by forcing middlemen to sign a contract. Yeah, so that's one of the tenants.

Another is direct trade between the producers and buyers. So they try to eliminate the middleman when they can. In Central America, they call the middleman a coyote. I thought that was interesting. So in order to do this, they encourage these farmers to get together and form co-ops, export co-ops, ban together, you've got a little more power. So something that he points out here too

is that the exporter, if it's a plantation, the fair trade standard requires that national laws governing the minimum wage and regulations governing the conditions be upheld and the workers' rights are all upheld as well. So that's when you're not, I guess, forming a co-op. No, but fair trade tends to encourage co-ops, democratically run co-ops.

Sure. But yeah, they're not necessarily completely opposed to the idea of certifying something that's run as a plantation rather than a co-op as long as the workers are treated well. And one of the other things they do, like if they do run into a plantation system and the workers are fine, everything's good,

they attach what's called a social premium. So if you are, say, there's a chocolate importer called Double Chocolate, the UBBLE, I think it's in the UK, and they sell fair trade chocolate. And on their site, they were saying that they pay an extra, I think $200 a ton of cocoa, per ton of cocoa, and that's just a social premium. That's on top of whatever the market price is

or whatever the minimum fair trade price is, whatever's higher, in addition to that, they pay an extra 200 bucks right off the top for a ton of cocoa. And that doesn't necessarily go right back to the producer. It goes back to the producer's community and is used for things like scholarships, water projects, sanitation projects, schools, whatever.

But that social premium is in addition to raising the individual's income. It raises the well-being of the entire community. Yeah, well, with the idea, too, that that's just gonna be good for everyone's business, ultimately. Well, yeah, that's the thing. That's where it turns capitalism in on itself,

like the idea that you can democratize through capitalism is a huge neocon idea. And I mean, it's true, it does work. But they're saying, but we need to do that through a certain measure of Marxism. It's kind of funny. Yeah. And the final tenet which you already sort of mentioned

was the minimum prices for farmers. The idea what they want here is obviously to make sure that the price that the farmer gets is more than the cost of production because everyone's out to make a dollar here and there. And so they actually take a survey to make sure that the price is right on the money and it covers things like the cost of living,

cost of production, and even the cost of complying with the fair trade standard. So they roll that in there as part of their accounting as well. Yeah, and we should say also, it is to purchase a license for fair trade stuff. It's on the ultimate, I guess, distributor, the coffee roaster in the case of coffee,

or the chocolate producer in the case of cocoa purchases, whatever. And before, I think until 2004, it was free if you were the actual person producing like the raw material, the good, like the coffee or the cocoa. But then the FLO said, you know what? We need to charge you guys a little bit too.

So I think that further encourages co-ops because a small farmer in Ethiopia can't necessarily afford whatever it costs to be in the system. Right, okay, that makes sense. And let's take a second here, Chuck, to remind people exactly what the disparity is between the people who eat the chocolate

and the people who produce the cocoa. So say you were living in Timor-Leste in Southeast Africa in 2005. Guess how much your annual income would be expected to be. Well, what am I doing? Am I growing? You're just a resident of it. You're doing whatever you want, but you're an average.

I have a petty cab. Okay, you have a petty cab? Since you live in Timor-Leste, I think I'm saying that right. Leste, one of the two. Man, I hope I'm saying that right. You made $400 in 2005, $400 for the whole year in 2005. In Malawi, you made $596 in Somalia, $600 in Congo, $675.

For a year? A year, 365 days of labor, or a large portion of 365 days. I take Christmas off in the petty cab, by the way. All right, 364 days of labor, got you 400 bucks in Timor-Leste. On the high end in Eritrea, you made a whopping $917.

In the United States in 2005, the average U.S. citizen spends $114 a day. Spends? Yeah. So, that's the concept of fair trade. It's like, you have this extra couple of dollars. Pay it for this, and we will make sure that that guy in Eritrea gets it.

And he's going to benefit, and in fact, the whole world will benefit. Because there's that whole democratic peace theory, where supposedly there's a correlation between democratization and a decrease in war, and belligerence between nations. So, who knows? It could just be beneficial for everybody.

Yeah, and this isn't welfare. This isn't taking from the rich and giving taxing the rich and giving it to the poor, who can't get off their butts and go work. These are people working very hard at their job that you are ultimately benefiting from when you take that sip of coffee that you're enjoying. And it's like, we did it in our own country

when we started enacting, like saying, hey, kids shouldn't work in factories, and they should make eight cents a week. We did it here, and the fair trade label ensures that wherever your product is coming from around the world, that the same thing is going to be happening. Yeah, it's intervention exploitation. But there are still critics.

Yeah, there are definitely critics and criticisms in, with fair trade, and I mean, they're legitimate too. Yeah, I mean, not a lot of criticisms about people saying, hey, you shouldn't do this and take care of workers. There's probably a handful of people out there that think that. It's more the, but generally, yeah, it's not. It's a criticism of fair trade and the fair trade

organizations, not of the people who are actually, you know, producing this stuff. Yeah, basically saying you're ignoring the basic tenets of supply and demand in a way because you're attaching an inflated price above the market value without doing anything else. Right, and because it's difficult to kind of get these things to market more difficult than a regular thing,

there's been a real focus on things like coffee or bananas. So in these areas where you can grow coffee and can grow bananas, since fair trade is saying, hey, if you grow this stuff and you do it the way we want you to, you'll get four times what, you know, you're getting paid without us. More people are gonna flock from cotton to coffee and there's gonna be an oversupply

and that's ultimately gonna drive prices down for everybody. Right, another criticism is that fair trade generally addresses these co-ops that we were talking about. And maybe if you were just a single farmer, that's like, I don't wanna be in a co-op, but I still wanna be fair trade. It's a little more difficult. And these co-ops, just like anything else,

when you get more than two people together in a room, there is a possibility for greed and corruption. So some of these co-ops have been attacked for mismanaging fair trade proceeds. And supporters say, you know what, we can only do what we can. We're trying our best. We're not saying we're gonna solve the world's poverty problems.

But what we are saying is that we can ensure that these farmers and these co-ops and these workers are getting paid a fair wage enough to live on when you eat your delicious, or drink your delicious roasted coffees. Yeah, and I guess the one that makes the most sense to me is the encouraging oversupply on the market and driving down prices for other people

and everybody in general. Yeah. But yeah, and really that could be very easily solved by just focusing on other products as well. Yeah, right now they say about 800,000 farmers are benefiting from fair trade right now worldwide. That was a, yeah, that's an 08 stat. So I bet it's over a million now.

Because it's growing, baby. Yeah, I mean, that was another thing too, is that the sectors are growing too. Like in the early 2000s, fair trade coffee grew like 74% within a couple of years. Really? Yeah. So I mean, like it's a good way to go

if you're a poverty stricken coffee farmer. Yeah, and it depends on where you are, what kind of products are available. It's not like everything you find in your grocery store will have a fair trade option. Yeah, but it's kind of been presented in market in a real laid back hippie granola way. And it's like, hey, we'll put it out there

and tell people about it. And if they want it, that's awesome. There's been no, if you took the same kind of marketing that's applied to stuff that's not produced fairly and applied it to fairly traded stuff, I'm quite sure you could generate a lot more interest and have people clamoring for like, I want fairly traded beef or whatever.

People are gonna want that stuff. They just don't know that they want it yet necessarily. And I think that the NGOs who are doing fair trade could do more to diversify. That's excellent. If I'm wrong, correct me, someone who's in the field. You got anything else? No, it's a fair trade.

Hey, speaking of NGOs, our favorite co-ed cooperative for education, they are who took us down to Guatemala and we got to see their handy work in person and it is good work. Yeah, they seek to break the cycle of poverty using education and they've got a great model. Like you said, we've seen it firsthand, we believe in it.

And so we are making a call out here, we're plugging for them because they have, well, they're in need. Okay. They are looking to triple the number of students they serve over the next three years. So they're gonna need the help of some stuff you should know listeners. All right, so we got some details for you folks.

The who of this, we're talking 54 Indigenous Mayan middle school students. Right. Right, these students are getting help literally, like firsthand help. Yeah, they're getting help through scholarships that cover tuition, school fees, and a youth development program

that fosters community service and leadership among the students, right? There are two scholarship levels. There's a diploma sponsor, which is 70 bucks a month. And there's an honor roll sponsor, which is 35 bucks a month. Those are some cute names. Okay, it is very cute. So when all this is going down is,

they want 54 students sponsored by the end of the year, the end of 2013. Right. Is there anything greater, Josh, than finding a sponsor for every single student? No, and we can do it. I mean, we have a lot of listeners and we have a lot of listeners with big hearts.

Actually, there is one thing greater. They could cover these students and have a waiting list for next year. Oh, that'd be even better. Yeah. Okay, so this is how you do this, guys. You can go to the website, www.cooperative4education.org.

You can sign up to sponsor a child today. Simply click on the donate now button in the top right hand of the corner. That's right. And you know what? A lot of our listeners have gotten involved over the years with CoEd and gotten a lot out of it in return as humans, as humans.

Yeah, it's a genuinely great organization that we've seen, like you said, firsthand. So we would encourage all of you to go help. So that's cooperative4education.org. You can become either a very cutely named diploma sponsor at 70 bucks a month or an honor roll sponsor at 35 bucks a month. And if you do that,

if you sign up for it, let us know. Yeah. Because we want to thank you on the air. Sure. Cool. That's a great idea. So go CoEd. Go CoEd.

Thanks, friends. So, okay. Chuck, hold on. Let's take a message break, huh? Yeah, and then Listener Mail are really good one this week. Right. All right.

The War on Drugs impacts everyone, whether or not you take drugs. America's public enemy number one is drug abuse. This podcast is going to show you the truth behind the War on Drugs. They told me that I would be charged for conspiracy to distribute 2200 pounds of marijuana. Yeah, and they can do that without any drugs on the table.

Without any drugs, of course, yes, they can do that. And I'm the prime example of that. The War on Drugs is the excuse our government uses to get away with absolutely insane stuff. Step out of piss y'all. The property is guilty. Exactly. And it starts as guilty.

It starts as guilty. The cops, are they just like looting? Are they just like pillaging? They just have way better names for what they call, like what we would call a jack move or being robbed. They call civil asset for it. Be sure to listen to the War on Drugs on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. How's that New Year's resolution coming along? You know, the one you made about paying off your pesky credit card debt and finally starting to save your retirement. Well, you're not alone if you haven't made progress yet. Roughly four in five New Year's resolutions fail within the first month or two.

But that doesn't have to be the case for you and your goals. Our podcast, How to Money, can help. That's right, we're two best buds who've been at it for more than five years now. And we want to see you achieve your money goals. And it's our goal to provide the information and encouragement you need to do it. We keep the show fresh by answering

list of questions, interviewing experts, and focusing on the relevant financial news that you need to know about. Our show is chock full of the personal finance knowledge that you need with guidance three times a week. And we talk about debt payoff. If, let's say you've had a particularly spend-thrift holiday season, we also talk about building up your savings,

intelligent investing, and growing your income. No matter where you are on your financial journey, How to Money's got your back. Millions of listeners have trusted us to help them achieve their financial goals. Ensure that your resolution turns into ongoing progress. Listen to How to Money on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Oh, and now it's time for Listen to Our Males, let's cheer. Yeah, I'm going to call this grief. We got a lot of really great responses on the grief podcast. A lot of people reached out and were like, had just had people pass away in their family and listen to the podcast that week and help them out. And we always like hearing those things. So this is from John.

Guys, I'd like to thank you for your grief podcast. It helped me with a grieving process for my best friend and brother, Mike, in his death. He was driving in Northern Alberta in mid-December when he lost control of his car after crossing railroad tracks, got hit by an oncoming car and died on impact. Our family flew there from Vancouver

and only had a few hours to spend because of some flight mishaps. We couldn't even bring his ashes back with us. Mailing his ashes was not recommended till the end of the Christmas season. So we are planning on having a funeral for him without ashes. Luckily, the company he was to work for, he was a heavy equipment mechanic and student at the time.

They heard of the news and their head safety guy personally delivered his ashes to our home. We then flew to Manila on Christmas Day and ride back in Canada on New Year's. I haven't felt the usual symptoms of grief yet, but I'm sure I'll break down and start balling on the sea bus or something, which would be super awkward.

The first month was definitely the hardest. The moment I always, the moment I heard the news has been burnt in my mind, that and a single flower in front of his dorm room from one of the students. The tears really started flowing after I saw that guys and I saw life in a completely different way. The little things really do count.

Anyway, Mike was most likely listening to podcasts at the time. That's what he does when he buys groceries. He was on the way to the grocery store. Your voices in fact may have been the last he heard. Who knows? Well, there was a frozen pineapple in the crash site and I know that was his because he loved that stuff.

But that said, just in case he's listening to the podcast in another life, could you please do one on pineapples? And that would be for Mike and John, we will certainly look into pineapples, my friend. That's pretty cool, yeah, I think we should. Yeah, hang in there, dude. It's very tough.

I can't imagine going through something like that, but I'm glad we could help in some small, tiny, tiny way. Yeah, and thanks for letting us know about that. We appreciate it. Wow, that was, you selected maybe the best one. Yeah. And we got some good emails about grief too. Yeah, thanks to everyone who sent those in

and people bear their souls sometimes, it's very touching. Yeah, we hope we make you feel better. If you want to tell us a story about how we made your family feel a little bit better, or you, or whatever, as long as we didn't make you feel worse. Although we should probably hear about that too. Sure.

You can tweet to us at S-Y-S-K podcast. You can join us on facebook.com slash stuff you should know. You can send us an email to stuffpodcast.discovery.com and you can join us at our website, stuffyoushouldknow.com. For more on this and thousands of other topics, visit howstuffworks.com. They just have way better names for what they call, like what we would call a jack move or being robbed. They call civil acid for it.

Be sure to listen to The War on Drugs on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hola, qué tal mi gente. It's Chiquis from Chiquis and Show Podcast. Welcome to the show. I talk about anything and everything. I did have a miscarriage when I was 19 years old.

And that's why I'm a firm believer and an advocate of therapy and counseling. The person that you saw on stage, the person that you saw in interviews, that was my mother, offstage. Apanpañame every Monday on my podcast, Chiquis and Chill, available on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.