Stuff You Should Know - How much money do I really need to live?

Episode Date: April 21, 2009

How much money does a person or a family need to live? Josh and Chuck are curious to find out, too. Tune in to this podcast from HowStuffWorks.com to discover how needs, wants and peer pressure affect the amount of money we need to live. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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only I can see you. What you're doing is larger than yourself, almost like a religion. Like, he was a god. Listen to The Turning Room of Mirrors on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Brought to you by the reinvented 2012 Camry. It's ready, are you? Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, from HowStuffWorks.com. Join Josh and Chuck, the guys who bring you stuff you should know as they take a trip around the world to help you get smarter in a topsy-turvy economy. Check out the all-new super-stuffed guide to the economy from HowStuffWorks.com, available now exclusively on iTunes. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. Chuck is cracking up. What is going on, Chuck? I just can't believe I said that. They're so gross. Yeah, we can't repeat what

Chuck just said. He's a dirty, dirty boy. They're all going to wonder. His name is Charles W. Bryant. My name is Joshua M. Clark. I go by Josh. He goes by Chuck, or compass head and Chuckers. This is Stuff You Should Know. Thanks for tuning into our podcast. Are you on uppers? I did a bunch of Amel Nitrate, man. Everything is weird. Good for you. Thanks. Chuck, times are tough right now. Indeed. As you know. They're particularly tough for me. I am broke all the time, right? I know that. Actually, we have this cool monthly... Yeah, you know that because I like to bum money off of Chuck once in a while. We have this monthly expenses calculator on the site. Have you been on it? No. It's unnerving. Oh, really? It's got all this great stuff. You know,

like how much you estimate, how much you spend on gas a month, cable, your phone, insurance, all this, and then you put in at the top your monthly gross income. Somehow, I'm living on negative $254 a month. That's awesome. I have no idea how I'm still alive. But Uncle Sam has, well, Uncle Sam's in trouble too, but they take quite a bite. Well, imagine if I had put my net income in here. I'd be in the hole like a grand every morning when I wake up. But yeah, so I mean, like I said, times are tough. We're all very, very happy to be here at HowStuffWorks.com. HowStuffWorks.com. We love this place. Love it. Seriously. Please don't fire us. Very fortunate to have jobs. Exactly. As we know, remember we met that guy, Chris, in our podcast? Yes.

Yeah. So, no, I'm sorry, our spoken word album. I just got the kakai from our producer, Jerry. The stink eye? She's like, don't even say audio book, kid. But yeah, so it's a little rough right now. One of the things I've learned is that as long as I have gas in the car, beer, and cigarettes, I'm set. Because really honestly, I have virtually discontinued eating. Like I don't eat breakfast. I rarely ate breakfast anyway. I don't eat lunch. And dinner is usually kind of small, that kind of thing. And it's amazing how quick your stomach shrinks, right? Yeah. You just, I'm not hungry. I'm rarely hungry, usually by about seven, which is when I'll eat dinner if I do. Right. I'll be kind of hungry. But if I just say, no, I'm not really hungry, it goes away. Sure.

And drink some coffee. And that helps. But the problem is, is there's an arc where it's like, appetite is suppressed, appetite is suppressed. And then all of a sudden, the caffeine just screams into your stomach. And it really points out how empty your stomach is. So you have to know where the cutoff point is, right? But no, I've been writing a lot of health articles lately. And it turns out that there is a well-known fact in the medical establishment. This isn't crackpot fringe stuff. That you're really unhealthy because you don't eat? No. That I will probably live longer than I normally would have because of a calorie-restricted diet. Right. Which we've talked about. We have. And I have found out quite happily that I accidentally

fell backwards. Thank you backwards. I'm like hung up on profanity into a calorie-restricted diet. And I will live longer, even smoking cigarettes. Well, good luck with that, my friend. Thanks. But the point is, I've found that you can get by in very little money. Right. And that just so happens to be what we're talking about right now. That was the longest setup in the history of stuff you should know, which is good. A new record. Thanks. I wasn't knocking it. Do I get a medal of any kind? Because I would totally pawn it right now. Yeah, to buy cigarettes. Yeah. So, yeah, Josh, you can get by. I think, what's the name of the article? How much money do I really need to live? Yes.

Written by Jane. Our colleague, Jane McGrath, who is our fine-fine financial and money writer. And she also has her own podcast, Stuff You Missed in History class, with Candace Gibson. Editrick's Extraordinaire. Actually, no. It's not Candace Gibson any longer. Our dear Candace got married. Candace Keener. Candace Keener now. CK. So, Chuck, what do we, how much money do we need to live? I don't know how much I need to live. But I mean, as far as the government's concerned, don't they have some sort of estimate that I may have heard of? I think you're talking about the poverty threshold. Yes. Which, again, reading this article, that's all very little money that the government considers the poverty line. Right. I looked it up in 2009 for a single

person. The government thinks you can get by in $10,830 a year. Yeah. You can actually live below the poverty line one year. No, you didn't. I did. Not too long ago. Wow, Chuck. This is when I was in the film business and I was working as a PA and I made very, very little money. But, like with this article, I had very cheap apartment. In LA? Yeah. Is there such a thing? There was at the time. I had a really good deal going. And you know how it works, dude? I didn't buy much food. I bought really cheap food and I was able to do it. I was shocked when I got my statement at the end of the year. I was like, you got to be kidding me. I lived on that and I didn't feel like I really missed out on much. That's great. Well, it's because you're hanging

out with Matthew McConaughey the whole time. Yeah, true. Yeah. Maddie. So that's for one person. $10,830. Right. That's absolute poverty, which they've been looking at this kind of stuff since the 1960s. Right. Well, let me say also a family of four as far as in 2009 supposedly can get by on $22,050. A family of four. Wow. That's insane to me. But yeah, so this all comes from the 60s. There was an analyst named Malio Shansky and he came up with the poverty line. Right? Yes. Basically what he did was he estimated the total annual cost of a healthy diet in America. Right. And then he multiplied it by three because he'd read a 1955 USDA report that said that Americans spend about one third of their income on food. So that would make sense. You figure out how much

food you need and then multiply it by three and then you have the poverty line. That's the least amount of money you need to make. Right. And the Census Bureau adopted that. They're like, this is a great job. True. And unfortunately, they've been using it ever since with very little adjustment. Right? So they adjust for inflation, the inflation of increases in the price of food, that kind of thing. But really, it's still based on that original formula. Right. With the one third number, I think that's what's causing a lot of issues. Yeah. People say that one seventh of your income is what you actually spend on food now. And also, you have to take into account, like back in the 50s and early 60s, you didn't have to get alone to buy a car. Right. They've

become exponentially more expensive. You also didn't have cable TV. Right. You also didn't have wireless internet. Right. You also didn't have cell phones. Any internet for that matter. That is true. Thanks for that one. We have so many more bills today that the formula should have been changed years and years ago. Right. But the bills, I think this is the crux of the matter is want versus need. And that's kind of the crux of the article is, do you need wireless internet? People think they can't live without their cell phone, but not too long ago, all of us lived without a cell phone and it wasn't that big of a deal. Well, there's this thing called relative needs. Do you remember when we talked about the five-day weekend? We talked about relative needs.

Right. It was like, say, your neighbor gets a really big TV and all of a sudden, you need a TV, but you need a really big TV. Right. Right. That's a relative need. Absolutely. But not all relative needs are kind of wanty, grabby needs like I need to beat my neighbor. Right. They also reflect the competitiveness that we have in the marketplace and in the labor force. Right. Right. Like if you have a cell phone and the guy who's up for a job next to you has only a landline and has to go home or use a pay phone to stay connected, who's going to really come out on top. Right. Or you might just miss the one call that you need. Sure. Yeah. So, I mean, there are certain things that you could say, yeah, that's kind of frivolous. We did without them.

But the fact is, everybody else has them. Exactly. You kind of have to have them to stay competitive. Right. Right. Like, I've been trying to find any way I can to cut down on monthly expenses. And one clear way is to just get rid of my cable. Yeah. But I'm not going to get rid of my cable entirely because I still need wireless internet because I work at home a lot. Sure. You know. And we have a research-based job, so we need the internet. Exactly. And the cell phone. Like, yeah, you compare it down. Like, I could have a pretty bare bones cell phone plan. And it would save a few bucks. But if you really look at it, it's like, oh, I'm saving like 30, 40 bucks a month, which technically adds up over the course of a year. But really, you're like, ah, I just

went through that in gas. Right. You know. So, it's kind of a frustrating balancing act of trying to pare down monthly expenses. Right. Yes. Absolutely. So, so what are some of the things you can do there, Chuck, if you want to really look at how to live on the least amount of money? Well, Josh, I was raised by my mother and father, but namely my mother raised our family of five on a elementary school principal salary in the 1970s and 80s. It was just your dad working? Just my dad. My mom quit teaching to raise the kids and then went back to teaching later once I was older. And she did a sterling job, by the way. Thank you. Thanks, mom. But my mom is and what was and is a master economist, micro economist. She was able to, she clipped coupons, which is one of

the things that we highly recommend. Yeah. I mean, she had a box filed with coupons, alphabetized. It was all very organized. We shopped at the discount to clothe ears, like a Marshall's that too much like that. My mom was pretty good like that too. And she could never understand why I would just refuse to wear nights of the round table closing. She's like, it looks exactly the same. Like, no, see that? That's a little flag. Was it supposed to be the polo? Oh, okay. It looked just like the polo thing, except instead of a polo mallet, the top of the mallet, it was a flag. Right. And I got to tell you, when you're 11, every kid around you sees that flag zero in on that flag. Well, try me, buddy. I not only that,

but my family, we shopped at the store that had the, uh, the flaws in the clothing. Oh, an outlet store. Yeah. Well, no, it was an outlet store. It was called, I can't remember what it's called, but. Factory store? No. Liquidator? No. I don't, I'm out of, I got nothing. It's basically like you'll, it'll be the name brand of you. Like, Hey, look at those converse shoes, but they're missing two eye holes or your, your, your genes are missing a zipper, that kind of thing. Well, what's funny is as I've grown older, I've come to see the value and stuff like that. Absolutely. Like who pays full price? Who pays retail? Not me. And that goes back to my point is growing up, I always felt like I was, uh, maybe missing out here and there. And not that we were,

I mean, poor by any means. I always felt like I had everything I needed, but I didn't go get the members only jacket. Right. And I didn't get the parachute pants. And now I look back. Which is actually good. I know. Now I think God for my, yeah, for my mom, not getting me those things. And the end result is as an adult, I have a natural inclination toward being a little more frugal and watching my money in some ways, but I'm also my father's son who is notorious for blowing money on flights of fancy. So I always, I also have that. So it's a nice balance. That is a good balance. Like I won't, I'll walk around behind my wife, turning out lights, and I'll try and recycle everything under the sun and reuse it, but I'll go out and

like blow 500 bucks on a guitar without even thinking. And he will people. I have been there with him when he did. It was a great guitar. What was it? Uh, well, it's a nice guitar. Okay. Chuck's afraid you're going to break into his house and take his guitar. So coupons. Wait, let me also say that I want to give a shout out to my mom. Okay. Who was a very, very great woman at being thrifty, but also making her kids feel like we were rich as I've grown older. I've realized, yeah, not everybody ate turkey loaf and drank green Kool-Aid for dinner. You know what I mean? Right. Yeah. So now I'm kind of like hats off. Yeah. Off the moms mother stays approaching. Let's just, yeah, here's to your moms. Great. So, uh, clipping coupons is a good way. Josh,

uh, buying generic. I know I go, there's a great grocery store in Atlanta called Kroger, and I think I don't know if they're nationwide, another in the South East. Yeah, they're pretty big, but man, I buy the Kroger brands. It's always cheaper. It's just as good, especially their delicious private stock brand. Right. Chuck, uh, do you remember the generic, like the generic brand? There was a brand that was like, it was a, like it was a white box and it would say in black block letters, brand flakes. And then there was a UPC code and that was it. Yeah. Did you ever see the beer? No. Oh, it was great. My first, this is when my brother lived in Los Angeles. My first visit ever to LA, me and some friends from UGA went and stayed with my brother.

Yeah. We went to the store and to get some beer and literally the first thing I went to was the six pack of white cans that said beer. Nice. And we loaded up. It was awful. Oh, was it bad? Oh, it was terrible. Could you stomach it? Did you finish it? Well, of course, I was in college. Okay. Yeah, it was back then. I have never seen that. I would love, I'm going on eBay after this to see if I can find some. Well, it's not around anymore. And somebody's got it in their garage somewhere. Yeah, probably. Yeah. Some, uh, 2012-er. Yeah. We could probably find some Billy beer on there. Oh yeah, from Billy Carter. Sure. Some 2012-er. In 1968, five black girls dressed in oversized military fatigues were picked up by the police in Montgomery, Alabama. I was tired and just didn't

want to take it anymore. The girls had run away from a reform school called the Alabama industrial school for Negro children. And they were determined to tell someone about the abuse they'd suffered there. Picture the worst environment for children that you possibly can. I believe Mt. Mays was patterned after slavery. I didn't understand why I had to go through what I was going through and for what. I'm writer and reporter, Josie Duffy Rice. And in a new podcast, I investigate how this reform school went from being a safe haven for black kids to a nightmare and how those five black girls changed everything. All that on unreformed. Listen to unreformed on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. In 1980, cocaine was captivating

and corrupting Miami. Miami had become the murder capital of the United States. They were making millions of dollars. I would categorize it as the Wild Wild West. Unleashing a wave of violence. My God, talk about walking into the devil's den. The car sales. They just killed everybody that was home. They start pulling out pictures of Clay Williams' body taken out in the Everglades. A world orbiting around a mysterious man with a controversial claim. This drug pilot, by the name of Lamora Chester, he never ran anything but grass until I turned over that load of coke to him on the island. Chester would claim he did it all for the CIA. Pulling many into a sprawling federal investigation. So Clay wasn't the only person who was murdered? Oh no, not by a

long shot. I'm Lauren Bright Pacheco. Join me for murder in Miami. Listen to murder in Miami on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right, so Chuck, we've got coupons. Coupons, generic. We've got generic. There's also a cooking at home is huge. Oh yeah. Number one, if you're like out and about, and you're not cooking, but you're poor, say goodbye to vegetables in your diet. Because no fast food place sells vegetables, and if they do, they're no longer nutritious. They have been slathered in fat and deep fried so long that you might as well just eat blocks of cheese. That's it. So yeah, if you can cook at home, number one, it's cheaper. Number two, it's healthier. And in the article, Jane cites a

source that says that if you bring your own lunch to work every day, you can save about $960 a year. Struck me is very low. Because around here, you can't get lunch for less than 10 bucks. Yeah, eight to 10. Let's go with 10 because the math's a lot easier. But that comes to, if you go out every day, which there's a lot of people who work with us that do. And that's like 2500 bucks a year. I know. That's a lot of cheese. I feel guilty when I eat out lunch. Yeah, I do. I feel like it's a complete waste of money. If I don't like bring my sandwich or something, and I'm forced to eat out, I'll try and skip lunch. But yeah, it makes me like, I don't want to go home and say, you know, I spent $12 on lunch. Yeah. Yeah. No, no, I don't either. I know what you mean. I value

a buck. I'll treat myself sometimes. Generally, I don't eat lunch. I'm a Gordon Gekko adherent. But let me give you a little tip. And I know you already know this. If you ever happen to be hanging around the courtyard, downstairs around 12, 1230, you see Roxanne Reed, strike up a conversation with her because she has a policy of buying lunch for whoever she runs into while she's down there. She bought me lunch one day. She bought me lunch twice. Well, we just need a time this better. Okay. Alternate. Yeah, we can both just be there with big doe eyes like, Hey, Roxanne. So yeah, need versus want. Josh, that's what it comes down to. If you're suffering in these tough times, I think what you need to do is take a good, hard look at your finances, break it down,

line it out, item by item, and really think about it. Do I need cable or can I get rid of it for the next six or eight months? Especially with the new digital transmissions, apparently that opened up. If it works, it opened up a lot more channels than was available with just rabbit ears. And it's a lot clearer too. So that's something I went without cable a couple of times in my life for extended periods. And I thought I was going to miss it, man, but after a little while, you just kind of forget. It's like not eating. Yeah. I've done it a bunch of tries before, and you get used to it really quickly. Right. Although we're not saying that you should not eat people. That's Josh's bag. Nice. Thanks, Chuck. It's not healthy. We're not encouraging that.

Okay. So, uh, yeah, I think the irony is in this article, we never really say how much it takes. It's more like a relative thing. Yeah, it's all personal. Yeah. So as you were saying, I think it is time for us to take a good long look at our finances. It seems like we're coming out of a phase where, you know, just conspicuous consumption is a thing of the past. You see somebody riding around in a homer. It's like, did you miss the memo? Right. Like, I realize you can't sell that thing to anybody or give it away for free, but it seems like at least the U.S. is kind of taking this new tack where we're getting a little more frugal and, you know, there's a big difference between being wealthy and rich and, you know, being able to

take care of yourself and your family. Right. And it's good that it's in. I feel good about that. And the other thing is, is don't forget to save. Save money? Saving is huge. It's an important thing. We are not a nation of savers and apparently we're becoming more and more of a nation of savers, which is heartening. It's a good thing. Yeah. You know what I hope, dude, is that this whole recession blows over and that we're all better for it in the end. Ultimately, we will, but you know, like the, uh, the great depression era grandparents that everybody gripes about, it's like, okay, yes, I understand. You can use this coffee can for 80 different things. And you have been, we're that generation, dude. We're in the making. Right. We're going to annoy

the kids that come behind us. Yeah. Badly. Yeah. That's how it always works. Yeah. So, I look forward you whippersnappers to hearing from Chuck and I, because we're going to tell you all about how bad it was in op nine. I'd like to also say if you want to learn more about, how much money you need to live, you can go to, uh, you can type it into howstuffworks.com in our handy search bar. And there's that monthly income or monthly expenses calculators. And there's a bunch of really great personal finance links in that article. It's a good one by again, by Jay McGrath. Um, so let's do the blog thing, Chuck. Right. Uh, speedy plug. We have a blog now. We've been writing on it. We have people, uh, posting comments and it's a lot of fun and we

encourage you to check it out on the right side of the homepage. And also I'm glad you said that because you just gave me my new hotel suit. No, what is it speedy plug? It's pretty good. Thanks. We actually had a bunch of people write in with suggestions for, yeah, we need to do that for, uh, listener mail. Yeah. I need to compile those. Yeah. Because there were a lot of them that were French. Did you notice that? No. Yeah. So, uh, should we, and quickly our audio, uh, spoken word record album, our spoken word album called the stuff you should know super stuff guide to the economy. It's up on iTunes 399 worth every penny we're coming to realize. Um, and, uh, you can type in super stuff and the search bar of your iTunes while you're searching the iTunes store.

And it should be the first thing that comes up. And if you want to buy it, great for you. Right. Help support Josh and Jerry and Chuck. So we're not, uh, begging for nickels anytime soon. Is it time? It's time for listener mail. Okay. Josh, I just have one today. This is from Patrick. Yeah. Uh, Patrick was writing in about deja vu, the deja vu episode. He wanted to respond, uh, because we talked about biological deja vu and he has some insight. He has an affliction and this is really odd. He's had it since he was 12. He's now 25. Okay. Occasionally, I'll experience an intense sensation of deja vu, almost like a dream. I'll remember some scene or dialogue that feels incredibly familiar. Sounds like normal

deja vu so far. Right. Yeah. However, during this episode, I feel dizzy, start to mumble, and I usually need to brace myself against something for about 20 to 30 seconds. I'll recover, have a slight headache, and, uh, the dizzy spells occur in clusters. So I'll have five or six of these in a given day and then not experience them for a month or so. However, I'll just have one really intense deja vu episode that will cause me to completely lose consciousness for about 30 seconds. Okay. Can I interject here? What is this person's name? Patrick. Patrick, I would like to strongly urge you to go see a neurologist like immediately. I'm not done. Okay. Pay attention. Thanks. Uh, some other weird traits. These happen once a month, almost to the day,

which is interesting. After the episode is over, he can't remember anything about it. No memories of it. He attempts to write things down or describe them while they're happening, but it's just gibberish. Uh, usually happens in the morning, but in all kinds of situations, standing, sitting, running, stressed, calm, whatever. He's gone to the doctor. No one can explain it. He's had two EEGs and an MRI and various theories have included seizures, inner ear problems, salt deficiencies and low blood pressure. Luckily, it doesn't interfere too much with my daily life, aside from interrupted conversation every now and then. Patrick. Long story short, Patrick is a stigmata. Is he? I think so. That's my theory. He's very open. I appreciate Patrick

sharing this. Yeah, thanks Patrick. And I hope you can go see a doctor. I hope you don't have anything really wrong with you. No, I mean, hey, as long as you're not going bonkers or, you know, it's not, you're not hurting yourself. That's, that's cool. Right. So yeah, that's my professional medical opinion. Of course, my formal training is in pediatrics. So he did actually ask us to, uh, to posit a opinion on it, but we can't do that. I did. No idea. I already did. Yeah, but that's bonk. Okay. So, uh, that was that. That was Patrick. We appreciate you, Patrick, the stigmata. And, uh, if you're a stigmata or you suffer from some sort of religious affliction or you just want to say hi, you can send us an email to stuffpodcast at howstuffworks.com.

For more on this and thousands of other topics, visit howstuffworks.com. Brought to you by the reinvented 2012 Camry. It's ready. Are you? The war on drugs is the excuse our government uses to get away with absolutely insane stuff. Stuff that'll piss you off. Cops. Are they just like looting? Are they just like pillaging? They just have way better names for what they call like what we would call a jack move or being robbed. They call civil acid. Be sure to listen to the war on drugs on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast.

On the new podcast, The Turning Room of Mirrors, we look beneath the delicate veneer of American Ballet and the culture formed by its most influential figure, George Balangene. He used to say, what are you looking at, dear? You can't see you. Only I can see you. What you're doing is larger than yourself, almost like a religion. Like he was a God. Listen to The Turning Room of Mirrors on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.