Stuff You Should Know - How Police Chases Work

Episode Date: May 28, 2013

Entire TV shows are dedicated to them and Americans love to watch a live one, but police chases aren't as routine as they seem. While police assert chases are important tools, critics say cops engage in chases too often and too easily. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, and there's Charles W. Chuck Bryant, who's a, you know someone on Twitter, said that every time Chuck Bryant giggles, a baby bunny is born. Oh, really? Yeah. Yeah, and they meant it, too.

Wow. I love being responsible for all that joy in the world. You're doing it, man. So I guess you just opened the show with you were being chased by a police car in Great Britain? You did a British siren. I guess it was. Yeah, I didn't mean to do that.

In the United States, we have different sounding sirens. Well, in these days, it's all kinds of crazy, like beeps and whistles. Yeah, it's like beep, bop, boop, boop. That's like an American police cruiser today. Wow, this one's getting off to a great start. Let's try to keep it on track. All right.

On the EVOC track. Yeah, this is in our long-running law enforcement series. Yeah, it's unequaled by any other topic except for death, I think. You think? I think death might have a beat. OK.

Maybe not, though. We'll find out. All right. I guess go count them after this. OK, Chuck, have you ever been in a police chase? Have you ever been the object of pursuit in a police chase? Yeah, I was not driving. I was in a car one time when my friend decided

to run from the cops. Wow, lay it on us. Well, you know, it was just one of those things. We were in Athens, and he made a very bad decision. And we got away with it. No way. Yeah. Well, see, that's something that I find extremely interesting,

because I didn't realize until reading this article that there are very few circumstances where a cop should feel justified or would be justified in chasing you. Right? Sure. But that said, there are almost no laws whatsoever restricting police chases. It's this weird gray area.

And I actually found there's activists online who are saying say no to police chases, like restrict police chases, like create laws against police chases, because these things are deadly and dangerous. Yeah, I think what, about 140 innocent civilians were killed last year? Yeah, 300, about a person a day, on average, dies from a police chase, and about a third of those.

But yeah, I think last year it was 140, or just innocent bystanders. Yeah, I mean, that happened in Atlanta. That's happened in Atlanta a couple of times recently. One time, the trainer for the Atlanta Braves, his, because he lost his wife to a cop smashing into her. Geez. And then again, more recently, there was another case,

I think it was a kid or something, but it was like, it was sort of in the news lately. Yeah, and I mean, you get the impression that, and cops die too, like high speed pursuit, is there a high speed pursuing? That's dangerous for everybody involved, including the cop. But you get the impression that whatever the circumstances is, just not pulling over for a cop trying to pull you over,

is reason enough to get the cop's hackles raised enough to chase you. Yeah, right off the bat, I think that would be any cop's instinct, is gun it. Not like, well, let me check into his record and call my supervisor, and see if they allow this, which a lot of times is policy. Now, as we'll see, there are procedures in place

to kind of try to tamp down that emotion of the primary cop and pursuit. Departmental policy, basically, though, like you said, not law. Right. So let's talk about this. When you go through the academy, and you get all your training, your gun training, you're hanging out with Tackleberry, and you learn how to make cool sounds,

like machine gun sounds. Or like, doo-doo-doo-doo-doo, huh? Yeah, you spend about a week, probably a little less, learning how to drive the car. Sadly, only about two of those days are dedicated to high-speed pursuit. Yeah, which apparently is an improvement over zero days, which is how it used to be.

And like the 40s and 50s. Yeah, I guess they just said, good luck. Right. You should know how to drive fast. Right. If you're an old country sheriff, you probably ran moonshine. Exactly.

Or your cousin does, at least. But there is a lot to it. And Ed Grabinowski, the Grabster, points out that in a high-speed pursuit, a cop's car can be just as deadly as a cop's gun. And they need to know how to use it just as well, and just as accurately. Because not only do you not have to know how to drive,

you have to know how to drive fast while you're also turning on the lights and the sirens, and calling in something. And all that other stuff has to be second nature to you, so that you can focus on the driving while using just a minimal amount of your brain power on the other stuff. Yeah, so part of the car training

is just how to run a police car stuff, because it's not like every other car. And if you are being trained to drive in high speeds in pursuit of a suspect, and they send you to Colorado, you can be reasonably assured that you're going to come back among the better-trained police in the country. Because the Colorado State Police

maintain a course, an emergency vehicles operation course that is the cream of the crop. Did you see the aerial view of it? Yeah, I mean, they cover all the scenarios, like on-ramps and off-ramps, high-speed turns, intersections. They've really got all laid out there and put you in a scenario where as close as you could get to an active street.

Right, it's like there's skid plates where the coefficient of friction is 0.15 compared, Chuck, to say, I'm just saying this off the top of my head, a coefficient of friction of 0.95 on a dry highway. So that's slick. Yeah, that is slick. They need to know how to not spin out, basically. Yeah, and that's, I think, the exception

is a really elaborate course like this. I think a lot of local police still use the parking lot and the cones now back, which is better than not. You get an orange cone. You're docked a day. You put an egg on it like a Brady Bunch. I remember that one.

That was one of the greatest television shows of all time. The Brady Bunch? Oh, yeah, absolutely. So let's talk about pursuit equipment. Basically, what we just said was police training. You get a couple of days, maybe. If you're lucky, you get a few days on a really great course, maybe out in Colorado.

For the most part, it's like, you know how to drive. Just drive really fast. Here's your Crown Vic. The Ford Crown Victoria is the most common police car, although they're using all sorts of different cars today. When you drive around, you'll see those Dodge Chargers and the more souped up. I think in LA, the state patrol had those Mustangs.

They really souped up sports cars. Apparently, they're getting away from Crown Victoria because that model of car had a big problem with it. Whereas if you were rear-ended in a high-speed collision, your car blew up. Yeah, was that the Pacer that did that in the 70s? No, the Pinto. Pinto.

The Ford Pinto, again, the Ford, had the opposite problem. If you collided with something on the front end. Oh, I thought it was the rear. I think it was the front. Let me tell you this. Either way. I learned about it from the movie Top Secret, where a Pinto just barely hits a tree on its front

and blows up. And then Ford ambulances for a while were blown up, too. Oh, really? Yeah. So Ford, with the police-inceptor Crown Vic, created this chemical fire suppression system where right when you're rear-ended at a high enough impact or a forceful enough impact, this fire suppression thing

goes off. So even if there's not a fire, there's not going to be a fire anyway. But apparently, it's enough that some people are like, yeah, we're going to go with the Intrepid. Right. You see a lot of Crown Vicks in Atlanta, too, like just regular people driving them.

Yeah. It's like sort of a thing now. Yeah, it is. It looks like a car. Complete with a little spotlight, yeah. It's like, man, don't mess with me like that on the highway. So there are some differences, of course, between a police car.

If you think it's just a regular Crown Victoria, it is not, or whatever it is. A lot of times, it does have more horsepower in the engine, because they need that kind of juice. And they weigh more, obviously, than your standard car, because there's more guns and things. You're going to have metal reinforced seat backs and things. So you can't get stabbed in the back from the back seat.

Prevent stabbing. If you did, or shootings or anything, if you didn't do a good job of checking for weapons. What else? Extra transmission coolers and oil coolers? Yeah, because, I mean, like this. They're radiators? Cops, like they don't turn their car off ever.

They're like that heat builds up, so they have oil coolers and transmission fluid coolers. Bigger alternators to supply more power? Yep, up to 130 amps, if that means anything to you. And then lights. Well, and vinyl seats, though, in the rear, that's important. You're never going to find cloth interior in the back of a police car, because suspects are dirty.

They're dirty, and oftentimes, they will poop and vomit and bleed. And just do whatever bodily fluid they can get out in that police car, they probably will. So they want to make it easily. You just get out the 409 and the paper towels and just clean it right there. That's grody.

Yeah. Lights. Apparently, they used to have them on the Fenders in the 30s. And they said, you know what, this is visible, but it's not as visible as if it were on the roof. So they created what's known as a light bar, which it was a little more recent than I thought was the 70s that these things made their debut.

Yeah. And I thought back, I was like, oh, yeah, you never see cars in the 60s or even early 70s with that light bar. So I was born in about the time the light bar came along. Yeah, I think you remember seeing the single siren sometimes, or the double blue. Dirty Harry would put on and do like a Yui.

Well, some were built in, but yeah, they also had the undercover cars. That was one of the great parts of any cop movie was when they got out the siren and put it on the roof. And now you can get them at Spencer's Gifts. Some are blue and some are red, though. I've never known the distinction. I always thought ambulances were red and cops were blue,

but in different cities, I've seen cops have red. Yeah, I think it depends on what side of the force you're on. Oh, really? Yeah, like your Jedi or Sith. So one thing they can do to prevent the chase from happening all together, you've seen the old spike strip, the lay down, these rubber mats with spikes all across the road. Or they have them like an accordion

that you just kind of throw and hang on to one end and you throw the other end. That's the quick version. Yeah. And so that'll obviously disable the tires. You can, the good old-fashioned roadblock that you see in movies actually happens. Sure.

They line up cars. And except in this version, there's not a conveniently parked tow truck ramp right beside it for the criminal to jump over everybody. Or bus through, I guess. Well, you have to be careful setting those up, because it's normally going, the criminal's not going to try to push through the car,

but they may try to go around. So you have to make sure that if you set up this roadblock, it's not going to funnel them into somebody's house. Yeah, I don't think you do that in a neighborhood. Right. That would be a good idea. You want to do it on a country road. And then modern techniques, which I think

if they bring this stuff along, that's really where it's at. Like microwave technology to disable the electrical system in the car or shooting a laser. High-speed avoidance, using laser technology, halt system, of course. Halt. But they left out a couple of letters there. Oh, yeah.

It should be, because I hate that. Halt. It's not an acronym if you're leaving out words just to make it a cute word. No. All right. It would be like a Laotian last name if they spelled it out correctly.

So in that case, they're shooting a laser to cut off your fuel supply. But here's the rub there, is the vehicle that they're shooting it at has this special microchip in it. Yeah, I didn't look into that. Did you? Is it newer vehicles all around? That's my guess, is that they're

going to start putting these in all cars or something like they make some deal with the cops. That would be fine with me. I mean, it's better than pursuing somebody. Absolutely. And then, of course, you have air support, either in the form of a police helicopter or like 50 news helicopters if it's a police chase

out in California. Or the world's scariest police chase helicopter, whoever those guys are. I think they just get footage from news copters and cop copters. You watch the shows? I know I've talked about cops. I've seen them before.

Yeah, they're just so, I don't know. I follow it. That's one of my guilty pleasures. Do you watch those still? Yeah, I mean, it's not appointment television. I never know when or where they come on. But if I'm flipping it around and I'll see a police chase, I live in LA.

It's sort of a thing. It really is a thing, isn't it? Yeah. The war on drugs impacts everyone, whether or not you take drugs. America's public enemy, number one, is drug abuse. This podcast is going to show you the truth behind the war on drugs.

They told me that I would be charged for conspiracy to distribute 2,200 pounds of marijuana. Yeah, and they can do that without any drugs on the table. Without any drugs, of course, yes, they can do that. And I'm the prime example of that. The war on drugs is the excuse our government uses to get away with absolutely insane stuff. Stuff that'll piss you off.

The property is guilty, exactly. And it starts as guilty. It starts as guilty. Cops, are they just, like, looting? Are they just, like, pillaging? They just have way better names for what they call, like, what we would call a jackmove or being robbed. They call civil acid for it.

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you need to do it. We keep the show fresh by answering list of questions, interviewing experts, and focusing on the relevant financial news that you need to know about. Our show is chock full of the personal finance knowledge that you need with guidance three times a week. And we talk about debt payoff.

If, let's say, you've had a particularly spend-thrift holiday season, we also talk about building up your savings, intelligent investing, and growing your income. No matter where you are on your financial journey, How to Money's got your back. Millions of listeners have trusted us to help them achieve their financial goals. Ensure that your resolution turns into ongoing progress.

Listen to How to Money on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And apparently, California has some of the most police protective laws as far as pursuits go. They happen a lot out there. Yeah, and everybody just stops doing what they're doing and watches the live coverage of it. Sort of.

Do you remember the guy who killed himself on live television after a police pursuit and showed it on Fox, I guess? I saw that when it happened live. I remember very distinctly, it was like not like a movie. No. Like if you've ever seen someone shoot their head off with a shotgun in real life, it's nothing like. It's not some big dramatic movie thing.

It's just sad. Yeah, it really was. It was like he might have been making origami or something. Like it was just that pedestrian. Yeah, or it was just like he just had the gun and he'd pull it up and shot himself, and he hunches over and just falls. It was it's weird.

It was really weird to see. It was very sad. And of course, all the kids that saw that, that's like, it's terrible. So initially, if someone takes off like you were talking about, the police officer that's on the scene has a decision to make to pursue or not to pursue. Lots of policies.

One thing they want to do is run the tags. Is it a stolen vehicle? Were they just in an armed robbery? Or is it just somebody who has a couple of traffic tickets out or nothing at all on their record? Apparently, the pursuit that enjoys the widest support around the country is if it's a violent criminal. Somebody who poses an imminent threat to somebody else,

somebody who's just carried out a violent act and is escaping. Pretty much everybody says, chase that guy. Like if you said, the person has a couple of traffic tickets. Or if they have nothing, and the only reason to chase them is that they didn't pull over for you, that is not reason to pursue. And yet, 43% of all pursuits, and I believe 2011,

were for traffic violations. Yeah, I mean, I feel for the cops. It's got to be their instinct. Like, go get that person. They're fleeing me for a good reason. Like, I get it. But when people are innocent, people are dying. There needs to be some policy in place, for sure.

And apparently, truck 91.4% of chases were for nonviolent crimes. I believe that. So if the cop says, OK, this car just came back stolen, that guy just waved a gun, and it's a very clear case that he should pursue. Go get him. There are other things to consider.

Yeah. Don't go get him. What's traffic like? What's the word of the road conditions like? Is it rainy? Is it dark? Are you in a neighborhood? Are there pedestrians everywhere?

You might want to just kind of slowly tail the guy. Well, the one in Atlanta where they killed the trainer's wife, I think it was a sort of a busy afternoon in an urban area. Jeez. Like, they shouldn't have been pursuing anyone at this point. Do you know what they were pursuing the person for? No.

I don't remember. And so if they decide to go ahead and pursue, then this series of procedures kind of come into place. They need to be radio and back into headquarters. Yeah, like immediately. Right. And apparently, every step of the way, or they just kind of keep whoever they're talking to,

their supervisor, posted on what's going on. The supervisor's role is to keep a cool head, because they're not the one who the person isn't pulling over for. So they're not mad. Sure. They don't want to crack heads, you know? So their whole role is to say, you know what, we should.

You just told me that there's some pedestrians around. This guy's not a violent offender. Yeah. Don't complete this pursuit. Or we have chopper coverage. So back off with the cars. And we can still follow this car from above. Yeah.

Like, we're still going to get our guy. Right. Don't you worry about it. Yeah. One of my favorite things, if you watch the show Cops, you are well-versed with the pit maneuver. Police, I'm sorry, pursuit intervention technique, also called the tactical vehicle intervention.

And that is the famous move. If a cop has, you know, you'll hear them. They have to get clearance for the pit maneuver even. Yeah, it would have been amazing. They'll call it in and say, hey, I think I've got a chance for a pit. Can I take it? And they'll say, if you feel like the streets are clear enough and you have to do it on a turn, you don't just like run up

besides one and run them off the road. It's when they enter a turn, the cop hits the gas and hits them on the left rear bumper and just basically spins them out. And it works, if done correctly. And then you get trained when you get the defensive driving on the pit maneuver. And they just spin out?

Yep. You can't come out of it. Can't come out of it. Your car spins. And that's generally on Cops, at least, when the guys will jump out of the car, the car's still rolling and take off on foot. And then you hear these cops with their mic'd up.

So all you hear is like running in the dark with all this gear on. You're like, man, what a crappy job. But Chuck, your heavy breathing just reminded me of something. Is it that time? It's time for a message break. The war on drugs impacts everyone, whether or not you take drugs. America's public enemy, number one, is drug abuse.

This podcast is going to show you the truth behind the war on drugs. They told me that I would be charged for conspiracy to distribute 2,200 pounds of marijuana. Yeah, and they can do that without any drugs on the table. Without any drugs, of course, yes, they can do that. And I'm a prime example of that. The war on drugs is the excuse our government uses

to get away with absolutely insane stuff. Stuff that'll piss you off. The property is guilty, exactly. And it starts as guilty. It starts as guilty. The cops, are they just, like, looting? Are they just, like, pillaging? They just have way better names for what they call,

like, what we would call a jackmove, or being robbed. They call civil acid for it. Be sure to listen to the war on drugs on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. How's that New Year's resolution coming along? Any other one you made about paying off your pesky credit card debt and finally

starting to save for retirement? Well, you're not alone if you haven't made progress yet. Roughly four in five New Year's resolutions fail within the first month or two. But that doesn't have to be the case for you and your goals. Our podcast, How to Money, can help. That's right, we're two best buds who've been at it for more than five years now.

And we want to see you achieve your money goals. And it's our goal to provide the information and encouragement you need to do it. We keep the show fresh by answering listener questions, interviewing experts, and focusing on the relevant financial news that you need to know about. Our show is chock full of the personal finance knowledge that you need with guidance three times a week.

And we talk about debt payoff. If, let's say you've had a particularly spend-thrift holiday season, we also talk about building up your savings, intelligent investing, and growing your income. No matter where you are on your financial journey, How to Money's got your back. Millions of listeners have trusted us

to help them achieve their financial goals. Ensure that your resolution turns into ongoing progress. Listen to How to Money on the iHeart Radio App, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right, heavy breathing indeed. So you were talking about the wildest police chases that kind of show that you like. I don't know who would watch stuff like that.

Grabster takes the task, those kind of shows, for presenting a very unbalanced picture of police chases. They don't show the cops backing off if a pursuit becomes too dangerous. They don't show the cops crashing into an innocent bystander's car. Right, they never say, well, this cop probably shouldn't have pursued this person

because this is a minor violation. And they always kind of tend to present the police in a favorable light. Yeah, and I think it's more, I don't know if they're out to make, oh, maybe they are. I just think it's better TV, obviously, like you would want to show when they're like, oh, nope. Let's just back off and go back to the donut show.

For sure, plus also they want to maintain the kind of relationship with cops, police departments, that where they'll give them their footage. Absolutely, you know. No, those shows are good for the cops, I'm sure. We hear, I don't know if you can hear those people. Sounds like a police chase is going on outside right now. I think it is.

This is really dramatic footage, Chuck. Do you remember the OJ thing specifically? Yeah. Where were you then? I was in college. Were you in college? Yeah. Yeah, I remember too, of course.

The chase wasn't, I didn't watch much of the chase. I remember the verdict. Yeah, I remember the chase specifically because they, it was during the Knicks Rockets NBA playoffs and my buddy Justin is a huge Knicks fan and he was really upset and he was just like, do you have to have it on every channel? And I agreed with him, it's like, why, you know,

you're going to preempt the basketball game, it's on a hundred channels. I can't, isn't there one person out there that wants to watch the basketball game? Yeah, really? I bet their ratings would have gone through the roof. And that was a low speed chase. That wasn't even, that was just weird, you know?

Well, low speed chases are very weird. I'm AC. It's just like, you know who I am? I'm not going to pull over. Yeah. So, well, let's talk about the legalities of it, right? There's, like we said, there's pretty much no laws that restrict police chases.

They have the right to do that in all cases. Yeah. And as a matter of fact, they don't even have to have their lights and sirens running to engage in pursuit. Yeah, that's a fallacy. The, there are department procedures regarding police chases though.

Yeah. But the thing is, is even if a cop violates department procedure and continues a pursuit, there's still not breaking any laws. Right. So, for example, in Washington DC, you can only pursue if the suspect has engaged in a violent act or someone could be seriously hurt

if the suspect were allowed to escape. Right. In Des Moines, Iowa, no more than three cars can engage in a pursuit. Yeah, that makes good sense. It's a good rule. And you have to take into account the time of day, road and weather conditions, the nature of the offense,

and the supervisor has to pursue, has to approve the pursuit. Right. And then in Florida, Orange County, Florida, that's the Orlando area. Yeah, are they the ones that have real restrictive policies? Yeah, and as a matter of fact, they found that in the year after they enacted

their restrictive pursuit policies, felonies in Orlando declined. Yeah. What's up with that? I don't know. One of those weird things. There is also something called sovereign immunity, which is a government official is not

liable for damages that occur while they're doing their job. Yeah, that's like old time common law. Yeah, old school. But these days, there are a lot of immunous valleys that have overwritten that law with other laws. And like I think with the Georgia case, I think that cop was fired and brought up on charges. And I think they could even sue the police station.

Yeah, with the cop himself. In overriding the sovereign immunity laws, most departments or communities protect the cops individually. But financially. But the institution can still be sued. Right. But they're not protected criminally.

Like they can still be brought up on charges. They just can't be sued, I think. Gotcha. Because I'm pretty sure this brave guy, I think he went up on trial. Well, apparently. If I'm wrong, then I'm going to eat crow. In California, you're basically out of luck

if the cops mess up your storefront with their cars during a pursuit. Yeah. Their laws very much protect the cops from that kind of liability. Insurance would help out, though. You would hope. But I mean, then your rates are going to rise.

Yeah. And what were you doing? Nothing. You just happened to have a store in the wrong place. In LA. So that's police chases. You got anything else? I got nothing else.

They seem way more dangerous than I even thought. And I thought they were pretty dangerous before. Yeah. Don't support those TV shows, people. Don't listen to me. Glorify like Chuck. Yeah. Do as he says, not as he does.

That's right. If you want to learn more about police chases, you can type those words into the search bar how stuff works. And so I said, search bar, what is it, Chuck? Is it time for listener mail? It normally would be, but I do not have a listener mail prepared.

Instead, we are going to have a call out, which we do every now and then, a couple of things that help us out, people. And our job with your free podcast is if you go to iTunes and you leave us a review and a rating, that helps us out. So we would invite people to do that. And I know we always mention our home on the web, the stuff you should know.com.

Yeah. But we really would like to send people there to check it out. And we've got videos, and blogs, and image galleries, and some really cool animated stuff. And it's like, I'm proud of this website. It's a great website. It really is. And I know some of you have supported it.

And we would like to ask others to go out there and check it out. And leave us a review on iTunes and check out the website. Check out stuffyoushouldknow.com. And thank you. And we'll be back with listener mail next time. And also, why don't we take a second to plug our Kiva team? Yeah. At kiva.org, that's K-I-V-A dot org slash team slash stuff

you should know. You can join the stuffyoushouldknow team and donate to entrepreneurs around the world in developing countries. Not donate. Lynn, that's right. I'm sorry. Lonnie, Lonnie, you can get back if you want to. And $25 increments.

Yeah. And you can re-loan, or you can get it back, or whatever. But it's a really great program. And we're marching on toward the $2 million goal, right? $2 million. We're hoping by August, I believe. Yeah. So that's kiva.org slash team slash stuff you should know.

And stuffyoushouldknow.com and iTunes. That's right. Thanks for the support. If you want to get in touch with us, you can tweet to us at S-Y-S-K podcast. You can join us on facebook.com slash stuffyoushouldknow. You can send us an email to stuffpodcast.discovery.com. And again, like Chuck says, go to our website, stuffyoushouldknow.com.

For more on this and thousands of other topics, visit howstuffworks.com. Absolutely insane stuff. Stuff that will piss you off. The cops, are they just, like, looting? Are they just, like, pillaging? They just have way better names for what they call, like, what we would call a jackmove or being robbed.

They call civil acid for it. Be sure to listen to the War on Drugs on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hola que tal, mi gente. It's Chiquis from Chiquis and Chill Podcast. Welcome to the show. I talk about anything and everything. I did have a miscarriage when I was 19 years old. And that's why I'm a firm believer

and an advocate of therapy and counseling. The person that you saw on stage, the person that you saw in interviews, that was my mother, offstage. Apunpan llame every Monday on my podcast, Chiquis and Chill, available on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Or wherever you get your podcasts.