Stuff You Should Know - Introvert or Extravert: Which are you? (Probably both)

Episode Date: August 23, 2022

The world isn’t divided into cat people and dog people, or Beatles fans and Rolling Stones fans (or neither). What really divides us is introversion or extraversion, right? Turns out people just aren’t that binary and all of us are a little of both.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hey friends when you're staying at an Airbnb you might be like me wondering could my place be an Airbnb and if it could what could it earn? So I was pretty surprised to hear about Lisa in Manitoba who got the idea to Airbnb the backyard guest house over childhood home now The extra income helps pay her mortgage. So yeah, you might not realize it But you might have an Airbnb to find out what your place could be earning at air bnb.ca Slash host hey, I'm Lance Bass host of the new I hard podcast frosted tips with Lance Bass Do you ever think to yourself? What advice would Lance Bass and my favorite boy bands give me in this situation if you do you've come to the right place? Because I'm here to help and a different hot sexy teen crush boy bander each week to guide you through life tell everybody

Yeah, everybody about my new podcast and make sure to listen So we'll never ever have to say bye. Bye. Bye. Listen to frosted tips with Lance Bass on the I heart radio app Apple podcast or wherever you listen to podcasts Welcome to stuff you should know a production of I heart radio Hey and welcome to the podcast I'm Josh and there's Chuck and Jerry's not here But we suspect she'll be along shortly and that makes this of course stuff you should know Yeah, it's funny this one came up From you why? because semi recently we were hanging out with our friends and

Emily we're talking about introverts and extroverts and Emily said someone said yet, you know Chuck is obviously an extrovert and Emily said no, he's not That's a lie. She said Chuck is an introvert because He loses energy in groups of people and he recharges by being alone. Yeah, and I had never really heard that but that's True, but then after doing all this research like I I am

Very much in the middle of the spectrum Oh very and not I guess not quite an ambivert. Isn't that what it's called? Yeah It really is completely dependent for me on any situation Who the people are where I am at the time. It's very very dependent on a host of factors Yes, so that means you are normal rough from from what I can tell and I'm really excited about this one because it's like Christmas and Halloween and Easter all wrapped up together because we get the tee off on on social psychology on the science press

all sorts of people and really kind of Disassemble something I think most people walking around think they understand but it from everything I can tell Misunderstand is a much better way to put it. Yeah, absolutely And I think this will get a lot of listener feedback because I think a lot of people spend time thinking about this stuff. Yeah And and it's like I don't know like I said, it's very easy to put people in buckets I think if we were to talk about yourself and myself people would say well Chuck's an extrovert Josh is an introvert We can tell by things they've said over the years, but it's just not that easy. No, no But you're right and I should say you weren't right Emily was right you were counted Emily being right

Usually the case if you just kind of boil it down to that that is it seems to be from what we can tell the The one distinction between introverts and extroverts like where you gather your energy from is it from other people? Or is it from yourself not being around other people? Yeah, but also it's like I think it's and we'll we'll debunk a lot of this stuff but It's not as easy as you know, the fact that you don't want to be talked to on the Appalachian Trail or meet other hikers That doesn't mean you're an introvert Because I've also seen you be the life of a party Well, that's when you get a little Captain Morgan

But like I was thinking about just you know Work events and parties and things like that if it's like a party with my friends I'm usually all about it, but I could also be in the mood to not even go. Yeah, or at a podcast conference You know, I am way more likely to just sit in my room than go to the mixer Mm-hmm unless I know that like there's gonna be people at the mixer I would really want to get to know and meet and then I'm all of a sudden all about it So it really just depends. That's neat I feel like I'm learning a lot about you right now because I just presumed you were always at those mixers

No, man, I'm in the room a lot. I mean you were always in the room, but I'm many times in the room Well, there's coffee in the room. So I just So let's let's kind of let's talk a little bit about introverts and extroverts There's a woman named Susan Kane who wrote a book called quiet the power of introverts in a world that can't stop talking And she basically says it comes down to a preference of where you get your stimulation Like do you prefer lower stimulating environments? Do you prefer high stimulation environments and that it is just a preference and in a lot of ways she's right But in a lot of ways she's really wrong because it's not just a preference from what it from if you're a

Psychologist or even a neuroscientist like it's an actual ingrained possibly brain-based Biological response that that people may or may not be born with Yeah, and we're gonna we're gonna throw a lot of studies out in this one and a lot of statistics There was a random sample of results in a 1998 and Myers-Briggs Personality inventory that said the introverts and I love this stat. They might as well have just called it 50 50 introverts made up 50.7 and extroverts were 49.3 with About 46% of men and 52% of women being extroverted in 54% of men and 47% of women is introverted

But you can find a pretty wide range if you go poking around the internet on how many people they say are introverted or extroverted Yeah, the one I've seen all over the place is somewhere between 16 and 50% of people Right introverts, right? Sure. Well, I bet you they're right. Well, yeah Yeah, somewhere in there. They might be nailing it unless it pans out that introverts don't actually exist Right. I don't know. So those numbers you threw out and I think the 16 to 50 that I threw out too That's typically in the US But the thing is it's not entirely clear Chuck if those numbers hold steady Like if you did that same random sample of Myers-Briggs results, you know 10 years on which you get similar numbers

And if you wouldn't why is that the case? Is it because somehow like populations are shifting or is it because you know if you would sample those exact same people from 1998 10 years later was if in they they the results were different would it be because people Act differently because of their moods and then there's not like a lifelong bucket of Introvert or extrovert that you can actually label people with right or if people Really evolve and let's say evolve or devolve I guess in either direction Do some people that really used to be introverted, you know You hear stories where people say well

I then I learned to come out of my shell for these reasons and now I'm a completely different person and I think it's just one of these Things where it is all wholly dependent on an individual. Yeah, they're like now I go beat up introverts on Friday nights with my friend But like this stuff is fun to talk about But I just don't know that anyone can bucket people you can make some generalizations But I think it's so specific to each person Mm-hmm, that it's which is sort of some of your closing thoughts, which we'll get to at the end Yeah, but but we have a problem here then we can at least set it up, right? Yeah Because what psychology is trying to do is create a model that you can apply to every single human being alive

Mm-hmm, and and predict their behavior based on where they fall on the spectrum between Extrovert and introvert and some other stuff that we'll get into too. So it's not just a question of you know And people people are people psychology is really trying to figure this out in a really specific manner Yeah, and I don't think it's like a waste of time or anything I'm not saying like they should just let people be who they are But because it is interesting at the very least it gives us something to talk about for 45 minutes for sure so let's talk about What makes an introvert an introvert and an extrovert an extrovert because there's a lot of misconceptions

But there's a lot of stuff that I think people assume that kind of fall in line with psychology's view of the behavior patterns of each Right, but also a lot of overlapping patterns because I found myself in a lot of these from each list Sure, so you're an ambivert, right? Did were you mainly introvert when it comes to this list specifically? I Don't know. Let's let's go through it. Okay Introverts and we'll just go through these quickly need to need quiet to concentrate For sure me our reflective our self-aware Take time making decisions and consider them carefully

Feel comfortable being alone. Don't like group work prefer to write rather than talk Have few friendships, but are very close with those friends daydream or user imaginations To work out a problem retreat into their own mind to rest and feel drained being around others Especially large groups, so I definitely check every single one of those boxes Except for take time making decisions and consider things carefully like I will often I mean, I will consider things a lot. I do that a lot of times, but I also Just kind of make impulsive decisions sometimes as well. Yeah, but you also Clearly don't need quiet to concentrate because you sent me music to listen to

For the very first time in 15 years. Did you listen to it? I did and it's funny that this all came up. Well, tell everyone what you sent because I can't remember his name I sent you a Ryuichi Sakamoto album. I think it's called 05 and it's really amazing. It's great I loved it, but as soon as I put it on and Josh sent this to me just to say hey Maybe we'll just be like of one mind if you both listen to the same music and obviously you're kidding around But what I found was I and what I know about myself is I can have music on If I'm and when you know when we're doing stuff you should know studying. It's my deepest study But I got to have it really quiet really. Yeah, or otherwise it distracts me

I mean, I understand the principle because I can't if it has lyrics. I just can't I can't do it at all Oh, okay, it's lyrics. Yeah, it's definitely lyrics for me or even an instrumental song of a song that has lyrics that I know It will bring to mind the lyrics. So it has to be straight up Instrumental all the way. What if it was just lyrics that over and over said concentrate Josh? Concentrate Josh. That probably work really well. I'll have to try that some time Maybe I can just sit on the phone with you and you can say that over and over again while I'm studying But for me, that's only like really big Big serious concentration like if I'm working on a project. I love having podcasts or music playing

Mm-hmm. Definitely. Yeah, well, yeah, that's another thing too It's hard to listen to podcasts or anything where people are talking to For the exact same reason for me for study. Yes. Yeah, that's impossible. Yeah I mean you're talking about the Wright brothers and the invention of the airplane while you're trying to study Extraverts and introverts. It doesn't really go very well All right, so go ahead go over the extroverts behavioral patterns. I'm a little nervous talking in public But that's because you're an introvert Extroverts and by the way, it's appropriate to write it with an a or an o so extroverts or extroverts

It doesn't matter. It's fine either way, but they enjoy social settings. That's a big one I've seen that they're overall generally more optimistic Mm-hmm. They seek attention. I saw that that was a big one, too. They're energized by being around other people and As a result, they're friends with a lot of different people. Mm-hmm as a result, they're sociable and outgoing They tend to enjoy group work. That's the kind of work that they thrive in they prefer talking over writing They find it easy to express themselves and they feel drained when they're alone for extended periods Yeah, I mean I took most of those boxes, but I also ticked a lot of the introvert I feel like you don't tick many of these boxes at all. I'm looking and I mean I'm pretty outgoing. I

Can be sociable. I mean it really just depends on my mood, but yeah, if you were gonna take an overall picture of me Yes, I'm definitely way closer to the Introvert version end of the spectrum What about this one because I think this one is kind of key and interesting is feeling drained When alone for extended periods, I wouldn't say drained is the right word But I don't prefer to be alone for extended periods unless I feel like being alone But in that case does alone mean like just with your wife like what does alone really mean? Does alone mean it literally by yourself? So I think for extroverts they feel drained when they're alone just by themselves

They don't have somebody else to be an energy vampire on Yeah, it's weird for me man, because I love being around people, but I could do a zombie apocalypse Survival thing on my own sure and I think I'd be okay. Yeah, you got some good good booze and good food Barbecue grill that works you'd be fine. It'd be awesome It's also interesting when you know, we haven't been in the office Basically our office environment is completely different now since the pandemic moving forward But wait, we have an office still. Yeah exactly, but it's interesting that like we I think

Before we became a podcast network It's interesting that we became a podcast network because we were an office Really full of introverts. Would you agree? Yes. Yeah, for sure. I would say and a lot of those a lot of those people became Public personalities in the end. Yeah, which is strictly strange despite themselves. Yeah, it's odd And and office is closing down for I think extroverts has probably been a problem Yeah, I didn't think I missed it until I went to our colleague Pam Peacock had an art opening that I went to in my neighborhood and I saw

probably like 12 or 13 people from the office and I had the best time and I was like I didn't realize I missed seeing everybody Until I saw everybody that is really sweet. Yeah, but then I was fine, you know, I'm not seeing the next day Yeah, it does sound like you are a pretty big ambivert So the fact that there isn't as such a thing as an ambivert somebody who really checks a lot of boxes on both sides So they pretty much fall in the middle the fact that they exist underscores a really important point that Introverts and extroverts are on a spectrum. You're not just one or the other as a matter of fact Carl Young

Who actually came up with this whole idea in the 20s said that if you were a full extrovert or a full introvert You would be a lunatic like there's just no such thing But some people lean further toward one side or the other but it's a spectrum and again It's not entirely clear if when you where you fall on that spectrum would be the same from one year to the other one decade To the other even sure you know one week to the other. Yeah, absolutely I feel like this is a good break time. Sure. All right. I'm gonna go sit quietly and think about what I've done You can get re-energized. We'll be right back Hey everybody when you're staying at an Airbnb you might be like me wondering could my place be an Airbnb and if it could what could it earn so I was

Pretty surprised to hear about Lauren and Nova Scotia who realized she could Airbnb her cozy backyard treehouse and the extra income helps cover her Bills and pays for her travel. So yeah, you might not realize it But you might have an Airbnb to find out what your place could be earning at air bnb.ca Slash host. Hey, I'm Lance Bass host of the new iHeart podcast frosted tips with Lance Bass The hardest thing can be knowing who to turn to when questions arise or times get tough or you're at the end of the road Okay, I see what you're doing. Do you ever think to yourself what advice would Lance Bass and my favorite boy bands give me in this Situation if you do you've come to the right place because I'm here to help this. I promise you. Oh, God Seriously, I swear and you won't have to send an SOS because I'll be there for you

Oh, man, and so my husband Michael. Um, hey, that's me. Yep We know that Michael and a different hot sexy teen crush boy bander each week to guide you through life step by step Kids relationships life in general can get messy you may be thinking this is the story of my life Oh, just stop now. If so tell everybody yeah, everybody About my new podcast and make sure to listen so we'll never ever have to say bye bye bye Listen to frosted tips with the Lance Bass on the iHeart radio app Apple podcast or wherever you listen to podcasts I'm Mangeh Shatikler and to be honest, I don't believe in astrology But from the moment I was born it's been a part of my life in India

It's like smoking you might not smoke, but you're gonna get second-hand astrology and lately I've been wondering if the universe has been trying to tell me to stop running and pay attention Because maybe there is magic in the stars if you're willing to look for it So I rounded up some friends and we dove in and let me tell you it got weird fast Tantric curses major league baseball teams Canceled marriages k-pop, but just when I thought I had to handle on this sweet and curious show about astrology My whole world can crashing down situation doesn't look good. There is risk to father And my whole view on astrology

It changed Whether you're a skeptic or a believer I think your ideas are gonna change too Listen to skyline drive and the I heart radio app apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts That's funny you threw in that young comment cuz that quote cuz I found the same one and I thought it was interesting because as it turns out Carl Jung was a one of the kind of first

big proponents of studying Introverts and extroverts and a lot of his work He's kind of known for it. I guess is what I'm trying to say Yeah, I'm not sure that he actually came up with it, but he certainly popularized it starting in his 1921 book psychological types Yeah, and Jung's whole thing was that The division between introverts and extroverts is which which way they directed their focus or their energy Was it inward or outward and that that was the real distinction and that was what people thought for a very long time

Until as we'll see people came along and said I think it's really kind of energy-based like where do they get their stimulation? Is it inward or outward and that seems to be that the current idea, but Jung really kicked the whole thing off in the 20s Yeah, which is I think it's interesting That I don't know the 1920s to study something that seems very modern to me. Yeah Personality types. There's also a dude a German. I think Jung was Swiss. Yes a German name Hans Einzink I Think not Einzink. I added an extra in somehow, but it sounded luscious. It did Hans. I think He was a psychologist

from Germany who Operated out of the University of London. He kind of took the baton from Jung Did they work together or was it just sort of a metaphorical passing of the baton? I think it was like standing on the shoulders of giants kind of thing. I don't think they work together Okay, but he came along in like the 1960s and developed a model of personality And he put a lot of focus on extroversion and neuroticism, which I think is very interesting because Well, I guess let's just talk about the links between the two. Okay, so yeah

I think whole whole jam was that that was the two boxes You were either an extrovert and an or an introvert and you were either neurotic or not neurotic And it wasn't on a spectrum. He didn't see those on a spectrum when he started working I'm not sure if he ever did you were either one or the other and when you put these two things together You had a full picture of the human being and it seems primitive to us today But the the basis of what he was doing It's it's still carried on today He like kind of helped build these blocks that people have built on since then

yeah, and he worked with his wife Sibyl and With her ended up adding psychoticism as a personality trait To create what was called the pen model the PEN model of personality and I think You know psychology or neuroscience would later kind of say that he was right in a lot of ways But later on psychology. They came up with their own big five personality traits and Didn't they dropped? Psychoticism as a specific category, but they kind of took pieces of it and applied it to the other five personality traits and came up with a acronym

Really to just depending on if you're an introvert or an extrovert or you're right It could be a canoe or an ocean. Yeah, so that's kind of where we're at today the big five personality traits as I as far as I can tell the dominant model of of personality descriptors and canoe is Conscientiousness which is your degree of impulse control or your ability to meet goals Agreeability, it's your degree that you trust other people or that you're helpful or cooperative Neuroticism and this is the same that I think and the or I should say the I sinks Considered neuroticism. It's your degree of emotional stability or instability

Like do you get emotional really quick or are you kind of like solid and steady kind of thing? And then there's also openness which I saw described as better better written as imagination or intellect so it's It's openness to new experiences, but internal experience, right? And then there's extra version. There's your right That's right. That's the canoe or that's the ocean. I guess ocean would be in a different order Mm-hmm. I can do that one and now in the ocean or that's okay And what's really interesting about all this is when you and of course, this is what you're gonna do in a social psychology way is

To to consider like all right. Well, why are people like they are not just let's identify What people are but is and it sort of goes down to the old nature or nurture thing Which I've long been on record that kind of everything is a mixture of both And it seems to be in this case, although there have been some studies Including studies from the isinks The screaming isinks Great new band awesome Where it seems in certain cases that nature has a bit of a nudge

over nurture in one study in particular in 1956 of twins found that Extraversion was correlated most amongst identical twins rather than fraternal twins Which would really put a check in the box of nature Yeah, and I think went on in a 1979 study to basically identify the size of your your cortex your cerebral cortex as Directly related to whether you were an introvert or extrovert and this is 1979 I think the wonder machine was Maybe it just debuted and there were probably a billion dollars apiece. So this guy was doing this

I don't know. He might have been dissecting people after they died or something But he from what neuroscience went on to kind of they went on and Through in their own two cents on this whole thing and they really showed that I think was seemed to have been on to something Yeah, so one thing that we do know for sure and there's there's so much haziness with all this Can be a little frustrating but one thing that they have really established is there is a supreme connection between being an extrovert and Seeking reward behaviors that seek rewards. Yes, and there is a pretty clear demarcation between

introverts and extroverts when it comes to the I guess we can say the fact that extroverts are much more likely to seek rewards than introverts are yes And if you take that as correct then that explains every other behavior in those behavior patterns that Extroverts are looking outward for some sort of stimulation and you can see everything they do is reward seeking behavior Not reward like somebody gives them a twix or something for saying a joke Although that might happen and I'm sure an extrovert would love that but more like by talking to somebody They have a they get a positive feeling from that so they get a pop of dopamine That means that going and socializing with people is reward seeking behavior

They're seeking that pop of dopamine which is as in brain terms the reward so that is the Central why to all of this it depends as we'll see it depends So they have shown that there are people that correlate with extroversion as we understand them Psychologically today that that do that do have like this larger cortex that is linked to greater reward seeking But it's also possible that these these buckets that we've created extrovert introvert don't really apply So right at the end of the day what we have is some neurological findings that we're not quite sure We can't say really confidently that they fit our model of extroverts and introverts But it is it is a pretty good place to start

Yeah, because they the one example they gave kind of makes sense in that when thinking along those lines, which is an introvert There may be an introvert who really loves going on thrill rides and roller coasters or bungee jumping or big adventures like that But they say that extroverts get more like more of a rush out of something like that than an introvert might yeah So anything that could give you dopamine. It's not to say that introverts don't experience that It's just to say that extroverts experience it more Right, so it doesn't matter what they're deriving pleasure from They're getting a bit a bigger kick or a bigger thrill or a bigger whatever out of it

And I've seen that this actually leads extroverts into greater danger than introverts like they're they need that dopamine Yeah, so they're likely are to go do weird stuff that could get them hospitalized for an injury They're more prone to accidents and being hospitalized for them. They're being they're more prone to being arrested for crime or antisocial behavior And and when you understand it is there it's reward-seeking behavior. It makes a lot of sense Yeah, and then you know on the nurture side, there's gonna be a lot of research obviously into everything from what your family is generally like and The cues that you pick up from them on how to live life to what really interests me

Which is going back to being a baby Because you know, you're you're sponging it up from the time you pop out and you're breathing oxygen and I think like in terms of the pandemic and they talked about this COVID generation not necessarily generation because you know, maybe a couple of years, but I think there was a lot of focus on like grade school kids and teens and stuff like that and how it behaviorally affects will affect them But I think there's a gonna be a lot of stuff many years from now about COVID babies

That didn't go outside for their first two years and this 2006 study they found that There's a few studies here that kind of I think play into that one one was from 2006 where they found that mother Child relationships can really have an effect on extraversion In that if you are a mother and child who are really attached during very early stages of development That the kid will end up being more likely to be extroverted later in life Yeah, if they have what psychologists call a secure attachment style to their mom Which means that they know that at the end of the day

And they can run home to mom if something goes wrong and mom's gonna be there for them Which gives them the confidence to go out and explore more That makes sense and it's one of those things that it makes so much sense that you should have a little alarm going off in Your head because it's it's one of those things that like is like somebody had a study that that showed that but it doesn't necessarily mean Okay, if you have a secure attachment, you're definitely going to be an extrovert It's also not clear our kids who are born extroverts Likelier to form a secure attachment right moms, you know So we're back to like a chicken and the egg kind of thing and we just don't have an answer to that

So it's really important to be careful when you're interpreting some of the data that Psychologists and the science press like the throw at you is basically settled Yeah, and it also doesn't mean You know sometimes one of the effects of postpartum depression can be trouble forming an attachment for a while That doesn't necessarily mean that that baby's gonna grow up to be an introvert because mom had a harder time I'm bonding with that child early on because of postpartum depression, right? And I think we should do one on attachment styles like there's a big bunch of Stuff that is associated with it and it seems really it's really interesting. It does seem pretty predictive of behavior for sure

Yeah, absolutely. I love all that stuff anything about like early childhood development. It's just fascinating to me I love it too Chuck. Let's love it together Another study in Japan and this is what I was kind of talking about with Perhaps COVID babies playing in was they found that children of overprotective or just let's just say protective parents Have lower levels of extroversion and that's what I was talking about with like If there were parents that were just did not let their baby leave the house for two years because of COVID Sure, like what that would probably mean. They're probably protective and you know, maybe overly protective as opposed to

What thankfully we were able to do because there was no COVID but we had our daughter out very early and thought it was very important To just get her out in the world In places where there are lots of people, right, you know, even as a baby, I just think I don't know I think all that stuff really sort of matters. Well, yeah, they say Socialization the more contact with other humans, it's the better off the kid is that's the presumption, right? Right the thing is this This this Japanese study what it seems to have turned up is that it's not lower levels of extroversion It sounds like it's greater neuroticism Oh interesting, you know what I mean? Like there there what a lot of people think of as introversion like social anxiety

A desire to not be around people because they don't feel comfortable That's not introversion. That's a part of the big five though, and it's neuroticism. That's what that counts So like a neurotic neurotic parents are more likely to have neurotic kids Yeah, and it makes sense like that you would pass that on that that could be a learned behavior You know that you adopt for yourself, especially after years of being raised that way. It certainly makes sense. Absolutely What about discipline? Yeah, you spank you thank them for being an introvert Being an introvert, that's the that's the phrase that psychologists use. Those t-shirts did not so well Got a box of them at the Popsai convention, right? Right. Yeah, they're just sitting moth eating in the attic

No, what it said was a 66 a 1966 study found that sons who were punished by their parents would exhibit more introverted behavior Mm-hmm this to me, especially the fact that it was 1966 is I don't know. I'm just a leery of this one because what does punishment mean in that case in 1966. Yeah, you know What's weird is there is a lot of like Tendency to cite really old studies when it comes to extroversion and introversion Despite there being so much work being done on it. So yeah, it popped up all over the place Yeah, it's a lot harder to punish kids these days. I think You know, yeah, you can't hit them anymore

So you got to do things like take things away or have time out and I don't I don't know I guess every kid's different But when I when I put my daughter in a room for any various reason like I go in there a minute later And she's just happy as a clam and they're doing her thing I'm like, this isn't a punishment or if I take something away. She's like fine. I'll just go do this. Yeah Like that we haven't found a punishment that really works. That's pretty awesome I wonder how how she's gonna turn out in that result, you know, like because even if you don't spank your kid If you use guilt or shame, that's gonna screw them up possibly

Oh, sure spanking them. It's like being a parent. No, thank you Yeah, and that's something I have to consider a lot because I'm I have passive aggressive tendencies and I Had those foisted on me and I do not want to pass that trade along, you know Yes, for sure. We like to think we're raising a good future adult. Yeah I think I really think you guys are I think I hope so you seem to be doing a really good job of it So I guess we'll see Let's take a break and then we'll come back and answer a really important question I think is on everyone's mind who's happier. Hey friends when you're staying at an Airbnb

You might be like me wondering could my place be an Airbnb and if it could what could it earn? So I was pretty surprised to hear about Lisa in Manitoba who got the idea to Airbnb the backyard guest house of her childhood home Now the extra income helps pay her mortgage. So yeah, you might not realize it But you might have an Airbnb to find out what your place could be earning at air bnb.ca Slash host. Hey, I'm Lance Bass host of the new I hard podcast frosted tips with Lance Bass The hardest thing can be knowing who to turn to when questions arise or times get tough or you're at the end of the road Okay, see what you're doing. Do you ever think to yourself what advice would Lance Bass and my favorite boy bands Give me in this situation if you do you've come to the right place because I'm here to help this

I promise you. Oh, God. Seriously, I swear and you won't have to send an SOS because I'll be there for you Oh, man, and so my husband Michael. Um, hey, that's me Yep, we know that Michael and a different hot sexy teen crush boy band or each week to guide you through life step by step Oh, not another one kids relationships life in general can get messy. You may be thinking this is the story of my life Just stop now. If so, tell everybody yeah, everybody About my new podcast and make sure to listen so we'll never ever have to say bye bye bye Listen to frosted tips with Lance Bass on the I heart radio app Apple podcast or wherever you listen to podcasts I'm Mangeh Shatikular and to be honest, I don't believe in astrology, but from the moment I was born

It's been a part of my life in India It's like smoking you might not smoke But you're gonna get second-hand astrology and lately I've been wondering if the universe has been trying to tell me to stop running and pay attention Because maybe there is magic in the stars if you're willing to look for it So I rounded up some friends and we dove in and let me tell you it got weird fast Tantric curses major league baseball teams canceled marriages K-pop But just when I thought I had a handle on this sweet and curious show about astrology

My whole world can crashing down situation doesn't look good. There is risk to father And my whole view on astrology It changed Whether you're a skeptic or a believer I think your ideas are gonna change too Listen to skyline drive in the I heart radio app Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts So we're back and we're talking about a question That you just can't not think of it when you start talking about introverts and extroverts

Especially when you learn that extroverts are just getting more of a thrill and a high-pitched Drill and a high from life Like who's happier? Does that mean that they're happier and the answer check, right? The answer it's it's Yes, they are happier No, it's not it is too. I mean study after study shows that they have they report a Greater subjective well-being than than people who scores introverts on these personality tests. I just don't want to believe this. I mean, I think To me this is a little bit of a chicken or the egg thing. Are they happier because they

Go to more parties, you know, that's a very basic way to look at it. Yeah And go to more concerts and public events and things that are more fun Mm-hmm, like I don't to me. That's a very narrow view of what happiness is though So but that seems to be like one of the big explanations for why they would be happier is it presumes that social functions and being around other people is Rewarding in a positive experience and so since they're doing that more they're of course going to be happier I don't I mean if you're an introvert, that's just absolutely not true being around people is not necessarily a more rewarding experience Yeah, that's my point like be happier at your book club, you know, right or painting your figurines all alone, right?

Yeah listening to us for sure but from what I've seen Study after study turns up that extroverts at least in our current understanding of what What subjective well-being is aka happiness? Like they score higher in that but again, it doesn't mean that we've we've captured happiness kind of like what you were saying Yeah, like hey if you want to be happy if you want to kick depression to go to more public Events yeah, well, what's weird Chuck is there are There's some evidence that that's kind of the case and it's found in

like world leaders There are some world leaders who will out themselves as introverts I think Justin Trudeau is the most recent one, but apparently Barack Obama some other like really like well-liked generally well-liked leaders Said later that they feel like they were introverts and everybody's like nah you lie and You know, they really were introverts, but what they did was they pushed themselves to engage in extrovert behavior And as a result they were richly rewarded for that. I Wonder if Clinton was like not me, baby. I'm an ambivert. I was all about it

right, I Think in Nixon was the last US president that was sort of admitted introvert. Yeah case closed Yeah, it is a profession though where Boy talk about being around people like campaigning for public office is a slog of meeting strangers. Yeah And the only experience we have with that is live shows Which is really interesting because as an introvert you do very well on stage And it's probably something that you push yourself to to eventually do it didn't come naturally to me either So I had to kind of work through jitters and stuff as well

but I found a distinct difference in My energy levels when we were sort of meeting and greeting before and after shows that we did for a long time Yeah, because as much as I really enjoyed every single interaction It is a very draining thing To have to be on because when you meet someone who's meeting you they're really up and on right so like someone can't come up and say Oh, man I'm such a big listener for years and years and you can't just go hi. I'm really tired right now so you got to be up to and like

What we did times a gazillion is a politician running for office, right exactly because you really want something from those people which is Yeah, you know, so you got to be on I know exactly what you mean But I can imagine that drain the fact is though you and I do push ourselves to go out on stage And we can both report that is really really rewarding to do. Yeah, there are a few things that make you feel as good as Coming off off stage after like a show that you just knew was a good show, right? Yeah so there is at least anecdotally from our perspective there is evidence that pushing yourself to do extroverted activities is rewarding could increase your happiness But the reason why it doesn't necessarily mean, okay

you have to be an extrovert to be happy is that it's possible our society is really ignoring a lot of the stuff that That would make anybody happy that's associated with introverted behavior too because our society places a tremendous amount of Value on extroverted traits basically Yeah, and on the live show thing like and I've heard this from touring musicians It's there's definitely an energy exchange that leaves you like I have a hard time going to sleep after in the hotel But when we were going out for like, you know, six or seven shows in a row I would find in the week after I got home It was a challenge for me. Oh, yeah, and I've heard that from touring musicians that you know

You got on these big rock and roll tours or what it rock and roll tours So square, yeah And then afterward like you go back home to your family and like that's why a lot of those marriages and families break up because It's just Really a stark difference. Yeah, you kind of depressed even I think why can't you be more like the groupies, right? Sure, that doesn't fare very well. They'll do anything. Yeah, so So the thing is if you look at how at least I should say Western society I think I said society before but Western society really places a lot of value on

Extroverted behaviors being outgoing being friendly being sociable being a leader being Unafraid, you know captain of industry kind of stuff like look at our movie stars. We don't have Introverted movie stars typically. I don't agree with that. Actually. I think there's a lot of introverted movie stars Okay, but do they behave introverted on screen? Well, no, that's my point. I think that's all the act Mm-hmm, right and I think as real personality goes I think there are many introverted movie stars, right? So if they just acted like their own introverted selves society wouldn't place any sort of value on that

It wouldn't be movie stars, right exactly They place an emphasis on the extroverted behavior. They're engaging in you see what I'm saying. Yeah. Yeah, for sure So I think that's the point like if you are in our society if you act extroverted, of course You're gonna be happy But I think we're also missing all of the things that can make an introverted person happy that apply as well Yeah, and you you can see this in the sort of early Mid-2000s when like every office in the world became this big huge open warehouse space

Which was again for us for an office of introverts was just a nightmare for so many people But I think career advancement in those situations, you know, the boss sees like, you know So-and-so was always just bopping around Generating ideas talking to people like they're gonna get more attention than someone who was like where did my cubicle go? Yeah, I missed the which isn't fair. No to have done to everyone but that's I mean, that's that at Western emphasis on on Extroverted behavior same with like brainstorming sessions That's the opposite of what introverts want to do and it's also the opposite of what research shows that introverted person

Is going to thrive in they're gonna not gonna come up with their best ideas in that setting They're gonna come up with their best ideas like alone on a walk or something. Yeah, you know what they should do It's interesting like a really good boss I think would gather the people for the meeting and say alright, so coming up next we need to solve this problem We're gonna have a big brainstorming session for anyone who wants to stay, but if you want to go back to your office and really have some Alone time to think about this then do that right like offer up both alternatives. Yes, exactly. I think that's great the ambivert way Up with ambiverts as far as the idea of who is healthier. That's a big one, too It's really easy to say that like well here. Let's just say this what's happened with all

All of the information that we found is there's been a lot of misinterpretation of studies and data Where the press will basically say like If you're an introvert you're more prone to anxiety and people that are more prone to anxiety or more prone to have heart attack So introverts are more prone to have heart attacks, right precisely and what they're doing is maybe they're talking about a study But they're they're more often than not Trying to put a scientific gloss on just a popular myth Right. Yeah, and that's it that happens a lot There was another study that looked at people who have like really negative outlooks on life and have heart disease and compared to

people who are less negative and Have heart disease and looked at health outcomes and of course the the more negative people had worse health outcomes and of course the headline was introverts experience more health problem studies suggests kind of thing and That introverts was nowhere in the study anywhere, right? They didn't use it anywhere, but that got converted to introverts that is a huge problem at the very least It is in public opinion, but the the bigger problem is like we as the public can be forgiven to just kind of Just take that up. It's not our job We're just kind of interested in that kind of thing and we can be forgiven for making those mistakes

What shouldn't be forgiven is when Psychologists and other people working in these fields do that same thing Make those mistakes use that shorthand and take this as anything more than just a model that is a work in progress at best right now Right and also the notion that we've we've got it all figured out when it comes to connecting health with personality That that is like a lot of hubris to suggest that so there's still so much more I think that's gonna be uncovered when connecting things like heart disease and depression Right and in stuff like that. We just don't know. Yeah, we just don't know

And that's a good thing to remember when it comes to introversion and extroversion And there's people out there that say, you know, I think a lot of this is just basically bunk If not all of it together that their their their premise is basically what we've been talking about that People are just too complex to put into a set of categories And yeah, the big five personality traits is probably the most complex and robust Personality inventory that we've come up with yet but it's still five different categories that you kind of that interact with one another and It seems really primitive when you step back and look at that when you consider just how complex not just people are but the

Experiences people have on a moment-to-moment basis that influence our moods and our decisions and our behavior too Yeah, and there are people who can solidly be like, oh, no, I'm 100% Well Jung said that's not possible. You know what I mean? Yeah, they would consider themselves like I'm an introvert like Trust me. I'm an introvert or someone who is clearly an extrovert There are those people that have maybe very very little overlap with the other But in with anything on a spectrum is just I don't know. It's very personal I think it's super interesting to think about for yourself because I think it Helps you navigate the world if you kind of think about it, but I also think you can overthink that stuff

Yeah, some people say that what you just described is actually harmful that people will start to Act to type right if they you're like, well, I'm an introvert Yeah, I guess I might as well not go to that party and they miss meeting, you know a new friend or they don't take on that project At work that would open a new door for them. Like some people say this kind of stuff is harmful labeling people like that rather than giving everybody Like hey, some people are like this. There's this behavior. There's that behavior and just letting people be as they are That that's a much better idea Yeah, I think I agree with that. Yeah, and then lastly the other thing Chuck is okay. So let's say the big five personality inventory

It becomes just more and more robust and it becomes clear that yes, this thing is absolutely accurate And you can use it to predict the behavior of anybody Like would we want to even have that in existence? Do we want to know people like that and like if we did have something that was that accurate like what ends would it be used to? Right, you know, it's just a question to chew on Especially if you're an introvert Yeah, these are my favorite ones. I like the ones where we can just dish, you know Yeah, I love dishing with you

Let's see you got anything else. I got nothing else I don't have anything else either and since both of us said that of course it means it's time for listener mail I'm gonna call this pronunciation support Not in the way that you might think okay. Hey guys love the show writing to urge you to be less hard on yourselves and Less accepting of criticism from listeners about so-called language mistakes Nice, for example in the recent Roe v. Wade episode Chuck at first pronounced substantive with the accent on the second syllable and Instead of substantive and it made such an impression on him that he made fun of himself

Later in the episode I tend to do that Yet see this from yet see by the way, okay? Well as it happens both Oxford and Merriam Webster document Chuck's pronunciation of the word as such and Josh check out what some dictionaries have come to say about Contemporary versus contemporaneous. Oh boy. I'm excited about this one The truth is that even dictionaries are nothing more than snapshots in time of how language is used and in perfect ones at that I might recommend doing an episode on linguistic descriptivism In short language is basically a game in which the object is communicate right?

It's pretty rare for you guys as native English speakers to use English in a way that could by any meaningful metric be considered a mistake Maybe a linguistic descriptivism episode would be would put to bed some of the more pedantic criticisms You seem to get from listeners. It's a great idea Nah, who am I kidding? Did you say that? Yeah, nice. So with many fondness. I'm not sure if that's correct That is what they got the point across Exactly and that's from yet see Lindenbaum my new favorite listener

And then when I told yet see that I was reading this they were back and said yes Yes, I'm gonna be the coolest member of my descriptivist linguistics club this week. Nice. I love that That's a club. Man yet sees great I'm gonna take yet sees advice and really unload on the next person who writes in to tell us we mispronounce something Yeah, tell him sick yet see on them. That's right. Tell him yet see sent you Well, if you want to be like yet see and just be totally great You can take a shot at it in an email send it off to stuff podcast at I heart radio comm Stuff you should know is a production of I heart radio for more podcasts my heart radio visit the I heart radio app

Apple podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows Hey, I'm Lance Bass host of the new I heart podcast frosted tips with Lance Bass Do you ever think to yourself? What advice would Lance Bass and my favorite boy bands? Give me in this situation if you do you've come to the right place because I'm here to help and a different hot Sexy teen crush boy bander each week to guide you through life. Tell everybody yeah Everybody about my new podcast and make sure to listen. So we'll never ever have to say bye bye Listen to frosted tips with the Lance Bass on the I heart radio app Apple podcast or wherever you listen to podcasts. I Munga Shatikler and it turns out astrology is way more widespread than any of us want to believe you can find in major league baseball

international banks k-pop groups even the White House, but just when I thought I had a handle on this subject something Completely unbelievable happened to me and my whole view on astrology change whether you're a skeptic or a believer Give me a few minutes because I think your ideas are about to change too Listen to skyline drive on the I heart radio app Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts Hey, it's Chuck wicks from love country talk to Chuck where we bring you what's really happening in the country music family We also if you love country, here's the deal you love country music you can be on the podcast So if you're a fan country music what you can call in anytime like I wouldn't talk about this Hulk Hogan called in he's like Chuck Zolkster. I love your podcast Jason out Dean Jimmy Allen, Karlie Pierce, Lauren Elena

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