Stuff You Should Know - Is fluoride making us stupid?

Episode Date: August 13, 2009

Fluoride is a common additive in toothpaste and the water supply of some countries. It's purportedly good for dental health, but some evidence suggests that it's actually harmful. Discover the dark side of fluoride in this podcast from HowStuffWorks.com. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Start your journey at toyota.com slash let's go places. Brought to you by the reinvented 2012 Camry. It's ready for you. Welcome to Stuff You Should Know from HowStuffWorks.com. Everybody loves Altoids, the little mints that come in tents. Well, once the mints are gone, you can do some really neat things with the leftover tents. People have made empty three players, cameras, even stoves.

Check out HowStuffWorks.com slash Tenevators to find out more. Hey and welcome to the podcast is Stuff You Should Know with Josh Clark. That's me and Charles W. Bryant. That's you, right? And this is really Stuff You Should Know. Yeah, not like the usual gobbledygook that we just toss out there. This is an important one. Sure.

I think so too. We're talking about what the CDC classifies in the top ten accomplishments of public health of the 20th century. And also might be one of the most nefarious pots ever perpetrated on the global public. Good stuff. Let's do it. Let's do it, Chuck. We're talking about fluoride, the seemingly innocuous stuff that is added to our water

supply and our toothpaste and our, oh, I don't know, diet pills, mouthwash. What else? Soft drinks. Well, that's stuff that we ingest. It's also in rat poison and things like that. Antipsychotic medications. Yes. Pain, not painkillers.

Tranquilizers. Tranquilizers. It's all over the place. And actually, it is exceedingly difficult to get rid of or to get away from. Anything that has water in it, say a soft drink, is going to have fluoride in it too, because pretty much all of our water has fluoride in it, at least here in the states. 60% of American cities fluoridate their own water. Fluoridate water that already has naturally occurring fluoride in it, which is hinky.

It is hinky. Let's talk about fluoride first, right? Back in the 1940s, here in the states, and we should also say, around the world, this is not necessarily the case. There are some countries that absolutely don't fluoridate water. Some used to. And do not know. Yeah, Denmark and Switzerland are among those that used to and don't anymore.

France never did. But in the states, we've been hot and heavy about fluoridating water for a long time, since 1945, when Grand Rapids, Michigan, became the first city to fluoridate, to add fluoride to its already fluoridated water. And Grand Rapids became the kind of model city for this. It was studied extensively. And the whole reason we started fluoridating water is, and as Chuck likes to say, I find this hinky, scientists discovered that areas where naturally occurring fluoridated water

was being drunk by the citizens, they also, there was also a correlation with, a decline in dental caries. Right. All about the teeth. Dental caries are any kind of signs of decay, like a cavity or something like that. It's an umbrella term for them. Right. So they decided, hey, we should add fluoride to the water and put it in toothpaste.

And we'll get our teeth in shape here in this country. And since then, everybody's fine with fluoride. It's totally cool, you know, if you'll remember, toothpaste used to be touted with fluoride. Oh, yeah. It's actually a little more difficult to find that little label these days. Right. The ADA, American Dental Association, says it's great. The World Health Organization, they came out in 1969 and said, it's good stuff.

Big big organizations are behind it. And there actually has been a major decline in tooth decay since then. Back in the 40s, the early 40s, I believe, in the US, the average kid had 15 dental caries. Right. Yeah. That is a lot. I mean, that makes me look good. Do you have a lot of cavities or a lot of fillings?

I'm like a crackhead over here. Yeah. I remember when I was a kid and I kept getting fillings every time. I rather sardonicly told my dentist one time, why don't you just go ahead and fill them all right now? Just get it over with. You were sardonic way back then? Yeah.

I keep coming back in here and you do a couple every time. I said, why don't you just go ahead and do them all? He said, well, that's no kind of attitude. Really? You should have been right. Yeah, right, exactly. And I went, meh. Yeah.

Okay. And all of a sudden, you forgot what you were talking about. Exactly. Yeah. So again, fluorides endorsed across the board almost by almost every major dental association, public health association, the CDC, as we said, the World Health Organization. And they all point to studies that show that fluoride is perfectly fine. Even though it's an insecticides and rat poisons and tranquilizers.

Right. The problem is, is there are also plenty of studies that have surfaced or been conducted over the years that show fluoride is not necessarily fine. Now are we going to get to the dark side now? Is it time? I don't see any reason to hold off any longer. Okay. I mean, what did we, we talked about how, yeah, there's been a decrease in dental carries

since fluoride was introduced or right. The thing is, the impression I have is everybody seems to be okay with adding fluoride to toothpaste. Right. But it's the water supply that really gets people's eye are up. Right. Right. Right. I think because it's already in there.

Not just that. And also we should say that the optimal, as far as the EPA is concerned, the optimal amount of fluoride added to drinking water is four parts per million, right? Yes, indeed. And anything over that, up to 14 parts per million is considered dangerous. Right. And way back in 1992, the National Academy of Sciences estimated that more than 200,000 people in the U.S. were drinking water with fluoride levels above four parts per million.

And what are some of the dangers? Well some of the dangers are discoloration and corrosion of your teeth, which is called dental fluorosis. Yeah, which is ironic that something, the whole point of fluoride is to, you know, to prevent dental decay and overexposure or prolonged exposure, say, oh, I don't know, over the course of a lifetime, it can actually degrade your teeth's health. Right. It can actually accelerate decay and not just teeth, but bones as well.

Right. Which is skeletal fluorosis. Right. It can also cause seizures. It can also cause severe gastrointestinal upset. Yeah. It can lower your IQ supposedly, allegedly. Well, that's not necessarily allegedly.

There's a bunch of studies that have been shown that there is at least a correlation between high fluoride exposure and low IQ. Right. China's big on that, actually. There's been a slew of studies to come out of China that show that. And the Chinese have also conducted other studies outside of China. So it's not just China. Right.

That's got heavily fluoridated dummies. Right. You know? So Chuck, I guess now, let's pull the trigger. Let's get into the whole conspiracy aspect of this. Yes. There's something called the fluoride conspiracy, which we found quite disturbing. We did.

That could speak for you. Yeah, please do. And should we go back to 1924 and kind of set up how this happened? Yes. Let's go back in time, Josh, like we'd love to do, to 1924. So are we in 1924? We're in 1924. We're in 1924.

62 years from the release of Ghostbusters. Right. The IG Farben Company in Germany, they're a chemical manufacturing company. They started getting loans from banks here in America. So what that led to was Henry Ford and American Standard Oil merged with IG Farben. And in the early 30s, all of a sudden, there were more than 100 corporations who had cooperatives and subsidiaries in Germany. So all of a sudden, we have a lot of manufacturing and business going on in Germany, early 30s.

Right. And a little bit to 39 under the Alted Agreement and the American Aluminum Company, which is the largest producer of sodium fluoride. And Dow, everyone knows about Dow, the chemical company, they transfer technology to Germany as well. So all of a sudden, you have what's known as the fluoride mafia, quote unquote. Because Dow is the largest producer of sodium fluoride in the world at the time, right? Right.

And I guess we should say that here's the deal. Fluoride is a byproduct of a lot of manufacturing processes. Hydrofluorosalic acid is. Exactly. We should also say at this point that the studies that are conducted on the dangers of fluoride, which no one disputes, there is such a thing as fluoride toxicity. Right. That's fact.

What's in dispute is, number one, whether or not it will actually affect intelligence. And number two, whether the risks of fluoride toxicity outweigh the benefits to dental health. Right. Okay. Right. Right. Okay, so go ahead, Chuck. So now, flash forward a little bit more into World War II, the U.S. government sends

a guy named Charles Elliott Perkins, and he's a research, a chemistry guy. They sent him to Germany to work with the chemical plants over there with the IG Farben company. Right. And the German chemist there told him of a scheme, which was devised, that the German chemists were going to... No, they had been. They had been giving fluoride to prisoners of war. Is that right?

They were heavily fluoridating from how I take it, the water at the POW camps in Germany. To quote, make them stupid and docile. Yes. Interesting. Very interesting. So apparently that caught the attention of the Americans. It did indeed. In 1939, Gerald Cox, who was a chemist employed by the aluminum company, concludes in a study

with lab rats that fluoride reduces the cavities, dental cavities. And this is where everything just kind of picks up from there. Like all of a sudden, fluoride is associated with a reduction in dental caries, and now we need to just start adding it to our drinking water. Right. Right. So Oscar Ewing, who was a long time attorney for the aluminum company, is appointed head of the Federal Security Agency, which places him in charge of the public health service.

And over the next three years after that, 87 American cities started fluoridating their water. Right. And this is just an early example of the revolving door. You know about the revolving door, right? We've talked about it before. School me. It's like Paulson.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Paulson, when he was head of the treasury. Sure. He was a Goldman Sachs man. Right. And of course, Kashkari, he was a Goldman Sachs man too. It's just, the revolving door is basically this interaction, this interplay between the private sector and public office, so the private sector will send some of their top people

to serve in public office, affect policy change that helps this private sector, and then they come out and get huge bonuses and a cush job. Exactly. That's really what you're talking about now with Oscar Ewing in 1947. Right. Allegedly. Right. We need to keep saying that word.

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Get yours today because Eco Tank is changing the way people print. Eco Tank makes it easy, so make the switch. Add Eco Tank to your online shopping list so you can just fill and chill. Epson Eco Tank printers available at participating retailers and at epson.com. So basically, Josh, the aluminum manufacturing and fertilizer and weapons industries start conducting this education research for fluoride saying how great it is when it's one of their biggest byproducts, and apparently the deal is it's a very expensive byproduct to get rid of.

It is, but it's also toxic waste. So very conveniently, they have all these studies that come out and say, hey, it's really good for you funded by these companies. And we just happen to have a bunch, so let's start selling it to municipalities to put into their water supply. Right. Should we talk about Eddie Bernays, Edward Bernays real quick? Yeah, and actually Chuck, we had a suggestion from one of our listeners a while back when

we talked about, I think it was a propaganda episode, and he sent in some stuff about Edward Bernays. Oh, really? I think Bernays actually deserves his own podcast. This guy created PR, and like the kind of thank you for smoking PR. The original spin doctor. Yeah. What they call him.

I'd like to, I think we should do one on him. I agree. Okay. So, Bernays is funded by these industrialists to try and encourage this PR campaign that fluoride's good for you. You're going to read the quote? No, I want you to. All right, so Bernays is quoted as saying, you can get practically any idea accepted

if doctors are in favor. The public is willing to accept it because the doctor is an authority to most people regardless of how much he knows or doesn't know. How about that? Yeah. Which is true. And actually, Chuck, I should say, you know my cute little girlfriend, she's sharp as a tack.

Indeed. She and I were watching something about like an elliptical machine or something, it was an infomercial for it. And they had this doctor on, and he was touting the health benefits of this machine. But it said his name and then New York cardiologist. And it just completely went over my head and she stopped and was like, what is the fact that he's a New York cardiologist have to do with anything? And I realized like New York cardiologist had just buzzed into my brain and it was

an infomercial. So, I took the guy with the grain of salt to begin with, but I did not notice at all that it was a New York cardiologist I was listening to. But I'm sure that that still had an effect on the legitimacy that this guy had in my opinion. If it would have said, Des Moines pediatrician, you probably wouldn't have had that sort of shabuigan pediatrician. Sure.

We always make fun of shabuigan. Or Detroit, even worse. For Eau Claire. Yeah. Wisconsin. Wisconsin. So, basically these doctors weren't necessarily bad guys and ladies, but they never really got these studies.

A lot of these studies were allegedly suppressed and people that opposed it were called cranks and quacks and so all these doctors are seeing these cooked studies, essentially, cooking the books. Nice Chuck. Allegedly. Get them Chuck. Recently declassified documents about the Manhattan Project, Josh, where we made the atomic bomb, found out that fluoride is a key chemical ingredient in the atomic bomb.

Even worse than that though, there was an ADA study that apparently said that fluoride does pose a health risk and the Atomic Energy Agency actually redacted much of this study. So when the American Dental Association is being redacted by the Atomic Energy Agency. Right. That should raise some sort of flag. Oh yeah. You know the reason they gave though? What?

National security. Oh sure. Yeah. And apparently Chuck, whenever the government pulls out national security, including lawsuits, which are arch nemesis Ira Glass recently covered in this American life story on the origins of things, there's absolutely nothing you can do. That's it. The judge just says, well, this case can't be tried.

Well you know what else happened in 2003? The Water Act? Yeah. The Water Act was passed and one of the little things in the Water Act that you may not know about, people, is that it made it impossible for water companies to undergo civil or criminal hearings as a result of adding fluoride to public water. So they basically said, you can't sue them because we passed the Water Act. So if someone finds out something awful, there's nothing you can do about it.

Yeah. To make money. Yeah. Unbelievable. So again, we should go back and say that if you ask the CDC, the ADA, the World Health Organization, if you ask any of these agencies, is fluoride dangerous, they will conclusively say no, or we should say, does fluoride give you cancer? They will say no.

Of course. There are plenty of studies out there that link fluoride to cancer, again, these studies appear to be repressed. Have you heard of... Phyllis Mullenek. Yeah. Great. Let's talk about her.

She was what, a Harvard researcher? Yeah. A toxicologist. She was a New York cardiologist. In the 1990s. Yeah. She was about to publish a study on the links between cancer and fluoride. And lower IQs too.

Was that right? Well, yeah. She thought that it might lead to lower IQ and ADHD. And a couple of... Yeah. Because during her studies of rodents, they were displaying symptoms and signs of ADHD. And we'd also already long known that fluoride exposure causes osteosarcomas, which is bone cancer.

Right. And rats. But she... Yeah. Okay. So she was doing the link between ADHD, lower IQ and fluoride. And she was fired a couple of days before her findings were published. Right.

So she goes to the National Institutes of Health for a research grant, the Continuous Studies, and they said fluoride does not lower IQ, it does not affect intelligence, and turned her down. It's... It's all right. We have no money for you. Right. So she goes to write the conclusions for researchers before their studies are published.

Right. And you know what she was fired from? What her job was? What? She was the head of toxicology at the Forsythe Dental Center in Boston. Yeah. Interesting. The pot is getting so thick, I can barely put my hand in it.

It is. This is honestly... I'd never heard of this in Ben Bowlin. They did on the soon to be released Stuff They Don't Want You to Know video podcast. They did one on fluoride. So we kind of borrowed from them. Well we actually asked Ben, the godfather, for his blessing, and he very generously gave it to us.

Right. Go do fluoride. Right. So Chuck, here's the biggest one to me. This is the one that gets me the most, okay? So the studies that show that fluoride poses little to no health risk if it's delivered at four parts per million or less in fluoridated water, number one are about 20 years old. Right.

And number two, we're conducted using pharmaceutical grade sodium fluoride. Right. This is the stuff that actually is in toothpaste. Right. Really high grade stuff. And that's why no one really has any problem with fluoride and toothpaste. It's the fluoride in the drinking water supply. As we said earlier, the people are worried about.

Right. One of the reasons why is that while some cities do put sodium fluoride in their water supply, it's still not pharmaceutical grade. And even worse, a lot of cities use hydrofluorosilic acid, which, Chuck, you mentioned that it's a byproduct of fertilizer production, munitions production, aluminum production. Scrubbed from the smokestacks. Say it again, Chuck. Scrubbed from the inside of smokestacks of fertilizer plants and put into our water.

Put into truck, shipped to water treatment plants where it sold to cities and inserted into the water supply. Dude, I'm not Mr. Conspiracy Guy. I kind of, it interests me, but this is one of those where I was, I was blown away. Well, I think the great irony of this podcast is that the aluminum foil hats we're wearing were actually produced by Elkoa. I mean, come on. How's that for full circle?

Yeah. And he was bouncing off all the radio, electromagnetic waves, what am I saying? I know what you're saying, buddy. So that's fluoride. Actually, that's kind of just the tip of the iceberg. Yeah, really? One thing that I took heart in is that it seems like more and more legitimate groups are undertaking studies or reevaluations of some of the studies that were conducted on

whether or not fluoride poses a health risk, starting in the 21st century. And it looks like people are starting to take a slightly more scrutinizing view of it, because Edward Bernays is long dead. And so are all of the revolving door people who got this whole thing started. So we'll see. Right. The EPA is one of them, actually. Thank God.

I saw one of their scientists in their union, Chapter 280, has taken a big stand against it, Dr. William Hersey, and he's the vice president of that chapter of the EPA. And he says that, quote, fluoride is a hazardous waste product for which there is substantial evidence of adverse health effects. In contrary to public perception, virtually no evidence of significant benefits. Right. Boom. Right.

And when a scientist's union starts talking, it's bad, because you've got eggheads and leg-breaking Teamsters rolled into one. You don't want to mess with that. No, a Teamster nerd combo is deadly. And actually, if you're looking for a legitimate source, a legitimate voice of opposition to fluoridating water, you should check out anything Dr. Hardy Limeback has written. He's an associate professor of dentistry and the head of cardiology. He's the head of preventative dentistry at the University of Toronto.

He's a vocal opponent of fluoridating water, and he's got some great points. Right. Yeah. Hardy Limeback. Limeback. Right. That's stuff, Josh. Yeah.

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That's gatethenumberonetravel.com. Once again, use promo code HEART20 through January 30th to receive 20% off your 2023 trip. Hey friends, whether you need it for work, school, or a special project, it's important to have the right printer, right, Josh? That's right, and the Epson Eco Tank is a new type of printer that doesn't use cartridges. Stop buying expensive ink cartridges and save yourself the frustration of replacing ink cartridges ever again.

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Add Eco Tank to your online shopping list so you can just fill and chill. Epson Eco Tank printers, available at Participating Retailers and at epson.com. That's it. We should probably, we'll have to find another conspiracy one to do, because our conspiracy ones really get people going. People love that stuff. CIA and LSD, fake moon landings. Actually MK Ultra was used in some of these experiments, so that was part of the, under

the MK Ultra umbrella, this floor ideal. Well there was like 249 or 149 programs under MK Ultra, so you're going to get the fluoride sooner or later. Especially if the Nazis are saying, dude, it totally makes your populations docile. Right. Yeah. And they're like, you should try LSD. Yeah.

There was a big exchange back before, everybody was just wow. Pretty cool. Is it time? Four. Listener mail. Alright Josh, I'm going to call this, I've got a couple here. I'm going to call it answer to our query that we posed. Which one?

When we asked what the, the woman who had the lightning go through her kitchen and we actually asked the listeners. Paloma? Yeah. Paloma. So Josh, if you remember Paloma wrote in and said that she had this lightning travel through her kitchen and allowed buzzing, popping sound and, but it went right in front of her face and passed from one wall to another.

Absolutely. But left her totally unharmed. Totally unharmed. And it didn't even leave a mark on any of the walls that it passed her. It did not. And then there was no thunder in the area afterward, right? Right. Or there was, but it was far away.

Right. Okay. No loud clap of thunder. So this one is actually, we had a few people write in, but this is from Tyler. He's a grad student at the Department of Chemical Engineering in Material Science at the University of Minnesota, class of 2013. Oh, he's a youngster. He is.

He says, I nearly lost it when I heard your quandary today. I've been listening to you guys for months and never felt anything truly worthy to add. No. I was thrilled. My older sister had gotten a series of Time Life books, remember those, containing a plethora of odd and amazing stories on variety. I had those actually. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, I had the Old West series. That was the best one. Oh. Shot a man for snoring too loud. Yee-haw. Remember that? Yeah.

When she moved, I took up the collection and let them gather dust. However, I recently started reading them and they're both entertaining and revealing. The story you read on the air sounds very close to ball lightning. Sure. The only major difference is that the writer didn't mention any damage to her house and most ball lightning stories do note some damage. So I'm not 100% sure, but it sounds like ball lightning. So we got that from Tyler and we also got that from Kent in Elgin, Illinois.

Brian in Montana, who's 14, Sarah of Unknown Origins, Kelsey in a Story in New York, and Finnegan also said that and he also requested that I do my cheek thing and say Ponzi, but Finnegan, Josh and I are not dancing monkeys to perform trips for you. It's a ponzi! You're so easy. I am so easy. Yeah. So thanks to all of you for writing that in.

I have to say, as far as I know, ball lightning's existence has never been conclusively proven. But again, you know me, that doesn't necessarily mean anything. Josh, soft and counter-clarke. Yeah, soft and counter with fact. Does that make sense? Yeah. All right. Well, if you want to send us anything, whatever.

Send us something. We're not going to call for anything because every time we do, we get a bunch of stuff. I want a bunch of different stuff. Whatever people want to do. And Chuck, didn't you want to issue a command for this stuff, you should know nation? Oh, I did. You know, I was perusing iTunes and I was looking at some of our reviews, which some are very kind.

Some aren't so kind. Some people don't like it. Wow. Fine. Whatever. Okay. But we only had like 700 comments and I saw that Adam Corolla's podcast had like 5,000. I should say at this point, Chuck flew into a rage.

He broke chairs. He finished off a fifth of whiskey and he groped anything in sight, including me. It was ugly. It was ugly. So I just thought I'd say, hey guys, go to iTunes if you will at some point and leave a comment and review in the stuff you should know section. It doesn't have to be great. If you don't like it, then you can say that too.

But I just want to get the count up a little higher. So that is my call. There are a lot of listeners and not many of them have responded yet. So let's hear it. That is such a clear abuse of power. Please. It's disgusting. Pretty please.

All right. So if you want to send us an email about anything at all, remember anything at all. You can send that to StuffPodcast at HowStuffWorks.com. For more on this and thousands of other topics, visit HowStuffWorks.com. Want more HowStuffWorks? Check out our blogs on the HowStuffWorks.com homepage. Hey, if you're a fan of Altoids, the curiously strong mints, you probably have a lot of empty tins laying around.

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