Stuff You Should Know - Kindness: Do It

Episode Date: October 19, 2023

In the tradition of our episodes on forgiveness and revenge, comes the third installment in the Emotional Roller Coaster trilogy. Kindness, it turns out, really does make the world go round.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

13 Days of Halloween Penance Season 4 of the award-winning horror fiction podcast presented in immersive 3D audio. If I am under arrest, you have to tell me what I'm charged with. Starring Natalie Morales of Parks and Recreation and Dead To Me. Please, you've been some kind of mistake. I'm not supposed to be here. How do you know? I'm innocent.

Are any of us truly innocent? Premiering October 19th, ending Halloween. Listen to 13 Days of Halloween on the I Heart Radio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of I Heart Radio. Hey and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh and Chuck C. here in Jerry's here and this is stuff you should know. And it's a podcast and the three of us are part of it. Yeah, this is an article on the Science of Kindness which somehow put me in a bad mood.

I don't know what that says about me. I don't know why. I don't know why either. It's very odd, but I kind of know what you're talking about. If we're like the topic overall that we're going to talk about, I think it's going to bring joy to people, but they'll get angry along the way. But hopefully when by the time we're done, those who are still listening will be like, all right, I'm feeling good again. All right, let's talk about it. And let's start with animals, because in fact, we can direct people to, we did a great episode, I think, on animal altruism.

Was that what it was called? Yeah, biological altruism. Something like that, where we talked about this sort of leading fact, as we lead into humans and kindness, the fact that animals all throughout the animal world display acts of kindness and many times they are altruistic and that they're not looking for anything other than to help out their bird mate or monkey mate

or ant mate. Yeah, you showed on last minute gift ideas, go look in on what the mcax are giving each other. Kindness. So it's in animals. We know that, we have evidence of it. It's also in humans, we have pretty good evidence of that too, that kindness is the thing. But it definitely seems the fact that it's in animals as well. Suggest that it's in us on some genetic level. It's not just society being like, be kind, rewind.

You know, like, there's an actual imperative, a biological imperative for it. And what's odd about it is that most people would think that flies in the face of survival of the fittest. Basically, Darwin's whole jam that, you know, looking out for number one is kind of, it might not be the antithesis of kindness, but it certainly doesn't go hand in hand.

And yet, when you dig into Darwin, you're like, oh, he was actually big time into kindness. Yeah, he wrote a lot of stuff about communities cooperating and not just like, hey, it's better if you cooperate and to go kill that woolly mammoth. But like, compassion and empathy are markers of a healthy community and a community that will survive in a fitter way.

Yeah, like if Tuk Tuk pushed Gib Jop out of the way, right, as he was about to throw a spear into the woolly mammoth, Gib Jop. Tuk Tuk took the shot and took the mammoth down and got all the praise. He's got hurt feelings between him and Jim job, right It's got to go to introducing a new character. Yes. It's happening before your very eyes Wow, it's exciting in year 16

Yeah, so like in those communities And communities now like the the thing that just kind of keeps things not just going like you can go as a society Like the thing that just kind of keeps things, not just going, like you can go as a society in a dystopian manner, but it's not a good society, it's not thriving. I think the thing that makes it thrive and then a thriving society is much more likely to survive and reproduce,

because everybody wants it too, because they're having a great time, are things like kindness. It's one of those lubricators that helps society go from surviving to thriving. I agree. It's also something that you see, well, hopefully you see firsthand when you have a kid. If you don't, that doesn't mean that your child is broken because there are all kinds of

reasons that a kid may not just be innately kind, but they might not like you. Maybe you're the problem. Dad, but the study after study has shown that many children are innately kind to other people in that, of course, this is just me editorializing the second part. It is later as you grow up and be a cynical adult is when those kindnesses go away. But you see examples all the time when you have a kid, of your kid and other children and their friends and classmates being kind to one another. And it's truly heartwarming to see and makes you think like, oh, like maybe, because this is what we're kind of talking

about, like, are we innately good people, like as humans? And those examples kind of indicate that, yeah, we maybe are good humans to begin with. Like, and we're gonna talk about a lot of studies and experiments in this episode. But this one was one where they had a kid, and they had some treats, like, low candies or something. They had goldfish or teddy grams.

I was just trying to name check, but sure. Those are money treats, man. They deserve, like, we need to lay it out there just how valuable these treats were. And then they had these little puppet puppets. I was going to say puppet things, but puppets are puppets. So what they would do was, and what they're trying to get at is like, how happy did, because you know, that's sort of at the root of all this is like, and we'll talk later about when you receive a kindness.

Of course, that makes sense that you're going to feel great, but does it feel good and make you happy to do a kindness? And so they had this little puppets and they said, all right, we're gonna give these puppets a goldfish sometimes and we're gonna see how happy that makes you a little kid. We're gonna give you a goldfish to give to that puppet. We're gonna see how happy that makes you. And then we're gonna also just give you a bunch of goldfish and say those are yours, but maybe you should give the puppet one of your own.

And the ones where the like the happiest kids were the ones where they are instances at least, were the ones where the kids gave of their own stash, of their own head stash. Right. To these puppets. Like they were happy seeing the puppet get a treat. Sure.

But they were happier to give that puppet a treat of its own, right? Yeah. And they weren't necessarily doing that so they would look good for the study, it seems. Exactly. These were toddlers. I think they were two or less, two or younger. There's another study that kind of found something similar that paid attention to little kids and how they responded to a grown-up needing help. And they showed that kids definitely do enter, distress might be kind of a harsh word for it, but there's a concerned state that's much better. They are concerned and apparently you can track that

by your pupils dilating, and this is the max planking institute, so they're pretty legit, but they were tracking kids' pupils dilating, so an adult would max plank institute. So they're pretty legit. But they were tracking kids' pupils dilating. So in adult with drops, something and have trouble picking it up. And the kids' pupils would dilate. So they were concerned. The kids became happiest or became less concerned or unconcerned when they were able to help. But the second to that, they were also unconcerned. They stopped feeling concerned after they saw somebody else help the grown up. So it's not like you were saying, it's not just about getting credit. It's not just about thinking you're making

adults happy. Like these kids were genuinely relieved to see somebody getting help even when they couldn't help them. And that helps underscore the idea that, yeah, we're biologically kind in our genes. Did the people who organized a study account, did they make sure they just accounted for the dilation of pupils by making sure testing these kids from methamphetabeneus? Oh, yeah, that's step one, a P test. Yeah, all right. That checks out then. Yeah, and the ones who they find outside of the lab hours before sunrise digging a hole

inexplicably, they pretty much just get them out of the population right away. So people have been trying to, I guess, group and measure and come up with scales on how to measure kindness and happiness and stuff like that. For a long, long time. And one way to measure it that they've come up with is something called the interpersonal reactivity index, which is sort of an empathy measurement, which is great. There's another one called the inventory of strengths that looks at behavior, like treats kindness as a behavior. But these researchers at Huttlesfield, University of Huttlesfield in the UK, in 2017, they're like,

all right, let's create a scale that's going to measure different aspects of being kind and see if we can group them. And they did. They had a 40 item question there and ended up clustering into three groups. The first one being benign tolerance, which it's like an everyday kindness like, hey, you got groceries. Why don't you take my seat on the subway? That kind of thing. Yeah, it's a kindness.

Yeah, it's an everyday sort of kindness. Empathetic responsivity, responsivity? Yeah. Is the next one, and that is a more emotional and much more personal and much more specific to a person. Right. This is somebody you have what they consider strong ties to, like a close friend or a family member or something like that.

So you're doing something kind to them, maybe when they need help. So, responding to them empathetically. Which is great. Really, really well said. Yeah, and then the last one is principle pro-action. And this is altruism, but a little less emotional, like, you know, go look at my record books. I give a lot of money to charity.

Sure. So, what they found though, so, of the 40 questions on the inventory, they all basically clustered into those three umbrellas, but they found three different things that were common to all three of the little islands of kindness. And those were... Great name. They were... Yeah, islands of kindness is a great band name. You're right. Synthpop. Sure. So they were, I feel sorry for other people

when they experience problems. I like to make other people feel happy. And people think I have a soft heart. And what they came to kind of identify those three things together that showed up under principal pro-action, empathetic responsibility, and benign tolerance, they said that that's your core kindness. That's the basic thing that makes people genuinely kind.

Those are the things that if you put those three things together, you have a kind person. You can have other people doing kind things, but they're not necessarily kind, and they even had a measurement of unkindness. Nine of the questions were basically like, are you a jerk? Answer yes or no. They're like, come on, answer. That was question two. Be honest, was question three and so on and so forth.

And they found that people who rated as unkind, say in one thing, I think maybe benign tolerance, they still rated highly in empathetic responsibility or principal pro-action. So it's not like even if you're unkind on paper that you don't do kind things. What they were saying is genuinely kind people check those three boxes. Yeah, I think on the questionnaire, I should say, are you a jerk and the only option is no. And then the next question is, do other people think you're jerk? And the only option is no. And then the next question is to other people, think you're a jerk. And the only option is yes. Right. Nice.

Between those two is the truth. They also found that women scored higher than men, generally speaking, and very specifically on benign tolerance and principled pro-action. Yeah. And they're, this was very interesting. There was no overall difference based on the age of the participant. But if you were over 40, then you would score higher on principled pro-action, which kind of makes sense if that's like giving to charity,

because I mean, I don't think I had enough money to even give to charity when I was younger. I think too, that's also a measure of like replacing, like adding distance to your kindness, you know? Yeah, sure, it's not just like donating. You don't show up at like the house that the charity's like, you know, supporting, you're just giving to that charity. Yeah, and also, you know, I said that I didn't have enough

money to give to charity. Yeah, and also, you know, I said that I didn't have enough money to give to charity. That's not true. I'm not going to say always, there are people that are genuinely living like week to week and day to day with their finances, so I'm not talking about that. But in my 20s, I could have, you know, not done the one thing to give $10 to another thing. You know what I'm saying? It's shameful. I know what it was, but you can't give time if you don't have money.

It's just another way to be charitable. So one thing about that though, real quick, before you move on, I remember plenty of studies have turned up that people of middle to lower socioeconomic status tend to give more to charity than people higher up in the socioeconomic status. Yeah, is that more total monies or more like based on their relative income? I think, yeah, I think relatively speaking because I mean, you know, like a billionaire could

give a million dollars and be like, eat my dust, go over socioeconomic people. But that relative to their wealth, it's not really that big of a deal, whereas somebody lower on the scale, or with less money, they gave a thousand dollars, that might mean a lot more than a million dollars with two billionaire. Yeah, and boy, what a lesson to, let's say you're a single parent with a few kids

and you're really struggling. What a lesson to your kids to be like, you know what? I Found a $20 bill today and we're gonna put two dollars in this guy's can That seems like he needs it more than we do even but we're gonna get it and change so it sounds like a lot because He's he's not paying attention, but he'll hear it. Go get 200 penny, son. Should we take a break? Oh yeah.

All right, let's take a break. We'll be right back. What is this place? Wait, why my handcuffed? What am I doing here? 13 days of Halloween, Penance. Season 4 of the award-winning horror fiction podcast presented in immersive 3D audio. Where am I? Why, this is the Pendleton.

All residents, please return to your habitation. Like stuff! On your feet! You're new here, so I'll say it once. No talking. Starring Natalie Morales of Parks and Recreation and Dead To Me. Am I under arrest? We don't like to use that word.

Can I leave of my own free will? Not at this time. So this is a prison then? No, it's a rehabilitation center. Premiering October 19th, ending Halloween. I'm gonna get out. And how may I ask for you going to do that? Escape. Listen to 13 days of Halloween on the I Heart Radio app Apple podcasts over ever you get your podcasts. ever you get your podcasts.

Ready to be inspired? I am Colleen with the host of Eating Wild Bro's Talk. Stepping wild bro. Step into a world where I sit down to budget meals created by self-made entrepreneurs, influencers, and celebrities. Together, we revisit the very dishes that fueled their journey from humble beginnings. Every Thursday, tune in to catch your favorite icons like Mario, Blame and Ro, and a cupcake

millionaire, Minion, Francois. Listen to the untold stories beyond the limelight. Tales of sacrifices, audacious leaps, nights spent wide awake, and the shadow of homelessness they conquered on their rise to fame and prosperity. Just out of no light, everything ain't for you, Everything's not your battle and everything's not about us. You know, you come in, you play your role, you do what you're supposed to do, you go to f*** on, you feed your family.

Every Thursday, listen to Eating Wall Broke on the Black Effect Podcast Network, I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you listen to your podcast. The Black Effect Podcast Network is brought to you by Uber. Earn like a boss at uber.com slash boss. A brand new historical true crime podcast. The year is 1800, a city hall, New York.

The first murder trial in the American Judicial System. A mass-ass trial for the charge of murder. Even with defense lawyers, Alexander Hamilton and Aaron Burr on the case, this is probably the most famous trial you've never heard of. When you lay suffering a sudden violent brutal death, I hope you'll think of me, starring Allison Williams. I don't need anything simplified, Mr. Hamilton, thank you.

With Tony Goldwyn as Alexander Hamilton, written and created so sad, that's right. It doesn't suit you. Written and created by me, Alison Flock. Why are you doing like go-a-sure? Listen to E-Raced, the murder of Elma Sands. She was a sweet, happy, virtuous girl. Until she met that man right there. On the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your podcast. I'm a murderer! Apple podcasts or wherever you listen to your podcasts. Apple MIRROR!

Music All right, we've talked about the runners high before, that euphoric sense that a runner can feel at a certain mile on the road, or the woods, wherever you're running. Can you get a runner's eye on a treadmill? Oh, yeah. Anytime you're exerting your body running for a while. Okay.

I didn't have had something to do with the environment and freshener and stuff like that. It might trigger it a little faster, who knows, but yes, you can. All that to say, there's a helper's high that they found. This is in the 1980s that they first reclude into this. And that is just what you might think is after doing a kindness to someone, you might feel a sense of exhilaration, you might feel a very nice period of calm

afterward. They have found, depending on the kindness, I guess, in the person that can really get you going for a few weeks sometimes. And this is really interesting, I thought. Psychologically, are these next couple of things is that you can get that same high just by thinking back on that kindness you did like a month ago.

Yeah, that's pretty interesting. Heck yeah, that's interesting, but if you stop and think about it, it's anecdotally speaking of course that works like that, but when you see it on paper, it's kind of astounding, that you can think about something like you said you did a month ago and feel good about it all over again. That's pretty cool. Yeah, and we do know that there are literal physical symptoms of kindnesses and the effect,

like better immune function, your stress hormones are gonna go down and stuff like that, but it makes me wonder if you can call up that kindness you did a month ago when you're starting to feel like you're getting a cold, would that literally help you avoid a cold? Oh yeah, absolutely without a question. Okay.

It's a good reason to be kind. Yeah. I don't have a good memory. Yeah, there's another, so another way you could put kindness, it's probably not exactly interchangeable, but it's close enough is pro-social behavior. Yeah. Because I don't think we said something that's really important.

Kindness is, it's action. It's always an action. Like it's not just thinking something. Thinking something is not kindness. You can have kind thoughts. Sure. But kindness is always an action. And in fact, kindness.org,

which is a nonprofit that's basically like a, that supports kindness research, they say that kindness is a meta value, which is just right out of the gate, knocks your socks off, and that it encompasses acts of altruism, empathy, justice, respect, and more, and that is always an action, often done with the intention of benefit, and sometimes but not always driven by emotion. Which I mean, if you get a defined kindness, there it is right there. And another way to explain that is saying pro-social behavior.

You're acting in a way that is kind, right? So people have studied pro-social behavior more than they've studied kindness. So you can kind of take some of those pro-social behavior studies and apply them to kindness research too. And that's exactly what 2020 meta analysis did from Hong Kong Polytechnic U. That's right, great school. It's gotta be right.

Yeah, I was reading about it. I think it's actually one of the best schools in the world. Yeah. See there? And they do not have a mascot. As far as I could tell, it's either an owl or we need a poo. I couldn't make heads or tails

as some of the photos. Let's go with me need a poo. I couldn't make heads or tails of some of the photos. Let's go with me, the poo. Go Poo's. All right. So they did a meta analysis like you're saying in 2020 and found that pro social behavior that you so aptly defined was very closely linked with something called, I'm gonna call it Udaya Monic,

well-being. I think so. Or either that or U-Domonic. Maybe that's a silent eye who knows. But that is a happiness that is sort of happiness plus. It's associated with more meaning and more purpose than an ordinary happiness like, oh boy, this ice cream tastes good. Yeah, and I've seen, so you have well-being. I've seen you demonic well-being or happiness as well-doing Like you're doing stuff that makes you happy rather than just feeling happy in that in and of itself as a component of well-being

That's pretty cool. So there's also that same I think meta-analysis turned up that if you help somebody informally You typically receive more personal benefits, like more happiness, or a sense of reward, then you do, if you're formally being kind, like organizing a charity, or even writing a check to charity. That makes sense. Yeah, because it's like a surprise for you as well, if it's an opportunity to perform a kindness. And by the way, I don't only say a kindness because of the gentleman from Winnebago Man, the great great documentary. Yeah, I remember that, but I don't remember him saying a kindness. Yeah, he said all the time, do me a kindness and, you know, get me a coffee. Yeah.

But it kind of fits though, because a kindness is an act. So it's like it turns it into an action almost by making it a noun or yeah, yeah, an adverb. Is that an adverb? I don't know. No, it's not an adverb. I'm about as good at English as I am at math. No, that's not true. Oh, thanks. You're much good at English. So, I don't even know where I was going with this, because all I can think about is when a big oh man. You were talking about the surprise of a kindness that presents itself, that you can,

like all of a sudden you're at the grocery store and there's an opportunity for you to perform a kindness. That I get that that might mean more to you than on a happiness level than like organizing a charity because organizing a volunteer day or something is a lot of work and it can be a pain and there can be frustrations and even though the end result is you've done something well at the end of that day you probably sit in your chair and you're like oh man that was a lot but when you just do a small kindness it's a surprise for you and so of course you're like, oh man, that was a lot. But when you just do a small kindness,

it's a surprise for you. And so, of course, you're going to be like, that was the best thing ever. I was just the best dude and it only took me 30 seconds. Yeah, and what's neat is there's other research that we'll talk about down the line that basically finds that surprise is an element of the happiness that can come out of acts of kindness. Yeah. So, yeah, I think there's definitely something to that chuck. Yeah. And the best way to scare people. What is this? So there's another study, I've got another study

at my sleeve you want to hear about it. Let's hear it. They were trying to say, okay, like great job coming up with a kindness scale, but what are we really measuring here? Are we measuring actual acts of kindness making people happy? Or is there some other thing that we don't realize we really measuring here? Are we measuring actual acts of kindness, making people happy? Or is there some other thing that we don't realize we're measuring? So they actually very cleverly kind of broke it out

into a few components. And they had people either do something kind for others, an act of kindness, something kind for themselves, still an act of kindness, but not for anybody else. Totally. Extroverted behavior that's not kindness, so maybe striking up a neutral conversation

about the weather with the stranger. It is hot. Right. Or doing something that's open-minded, but it's not social and it's not kind. And the example that Olivia gave was engaging with art, like going to see, you know, going to a museum, right? Okay. All of those things can make you happy and

The the University of California psychologist wanted to see if we were accidentally measuring that and what they found Is that the people who did acts of kindness for other people were far and away Happier than the other three groups. Yeah, pretty interesting. And in that little bit, you mentioned one of the things that covered for it was doing a kindness for yourself. There was a 2019 paper from Oxford University where they found that acts of kindness to other people and acts of kindness to yourself

had about the same positive effect on your happiness. And I didn't read that as like, oh, well, that just shoots holes in the previous theory. I saw it as like, well, yeah, your brain is still receiving those triggers that like you're doing a kindness in your person too, and you need kindnesses to be done for you. And if you're the one doing it, then great. Exactly. You know, you should be kind to yourself. Be kind to yourself. That's right. And rewind. I saw something explained, like the feeling that you get from the helper's high,

explained by pointing out that acts of kindness are actually an exertion for us, just like exercises and exertion. Anything beyond what we need to do to survive that day is technically an exertion. Our bodies created this reward system to overcome the sense of exertion or pain or sore muscles or loss of giving up your goldfish treat to a puppet and flooding us with chemicals that make us feel better.

So that totally explains the biochemical basis for that helper's high, for the sense of being rewarded by doing an act of kindness or just a kindness, and that it's kind of apparently centrally located in the Vegas nerve. If you'll remember from our orgasm episode is really responsible for that, it's a huge part of the parasympathetic autonomic nervous system, which is the opposite of flight. It's like chill and chill instead of fight or flight. Yeah, like getting your breathing under control and your tummy feeling good and your heart rate a little lower stuff like that.

We talked about it quite a few times. I feel like over the years, it's only in mammals. It's very unique to mammals. Because it is a part of that autonomic nervous system, it's connected to basically all the organs. It's affecting everything inside your body, which is great. And it's what's gonna give you that warm feeling

when it's active, when you've done a kindness to someone, that's where that warm feeling is coming from basically. Yeah, and specifically, it's oxytocin. They've linked that to kindness and that helpers high. And that is, it's frequently called the love hormone. It is around from every event like a mother holding a newborn baby skin to skin for the first time. That's a huge oxytocin release.

To doing an act of kindness for somebody is that warm feeling in your chest, that feeling where like you, you just suddenly are you suddenly are like, if I really thought about it, I could cry right now, just feel so good and just overwhelmed with positive feelings, that's oxytocin. Axe of kindness have been shown to release oxytocin. That seems to be part of the basis of that helper's high. However, you can get oxytocin, get it. That's my motto.

Yeah, totally. Interesting thing to jumping back a sec to that 2019 Oxford paper that talked about doing a kindness on oneself. I found this particularly interesting. Okay. Just witnessing an act of kindness can also have a similar effect on you, which is amazing. And that makes me wonder if our old friends, Miren neurons are not involved somehow.

Well, yeah, I would think so because empathy has to be involved. You have to feel something towards somebody who you're helping or else you just wouldn't even think to help them. You'd probably just be like, Ha, ha, you know? So yeah, if empathy's involved in mirror neurons have to be involved. That's just the way it goes, friend. But we've, we've, I mean, who hasn't it watch the, uh, one of those, uh, internet videos, Instagram or wherever, where you see a real kindness. And, you know, they've, that got that piano music plan.

And all of a sudden you're tearing up, like your body is firing all those same neurons, apparently, according to Oxford, as if you had done that kindness yourself. Right, like you feel good neurons. You got that rascal for that veteran. Like you did that. For all intents and purposes, none of us have to do

anything. As long as there's some people out there doing kindnesses and posting those videos on the internet, the rest of us can just get the benefits from it without having to lift a finger. Yeah, and you go into your therapist and they're like, I know you have a problem with empathy and kindnesses. Did you do any this week? And you're like, yeah, watch like three videos. Exactly. And it makes you feel great. Yeah. Yeah, watch like three videos. Exactly. It made me feel great. Yeah. So should we take another break and then come back and talk about how it helps people who kindness is given to?

Sure. Okay, we're gonna do that. What is this place? Wait, why my handcuffed? What am I doing here? 13 days of Halloween, Penance. Season 4 of the award-winning horror fiction podcast presented in immersive 3D audio. Where am I? Why, this is the Pendleton.

All residents, please return to your habitation. Light stuff on your feet! You're new here, so I'll say it once. No talking. Starring Natalie Morales of Parks and Recreation and Dead to Me. Am I under arrest? We don't like to use that word. Can I leave of my own free will?

Not at this time. So this is a prison then? No, it's a rehabilitation center. Premiering October 19th, ending Halloween. I'm gonna get out. And how may I ask, or are you going to do that? Escape. Listen to 13 days of Halloween on the I Heart Radio app,

Apple podcasts over ever you get your podcasts. Ready to be inspired? I am Colleen with the host of Eating Wild Bro's Podcast. Step into a world where I sit down to budget meals created by self-made entrepreneurs, influencers, and celebrities. Together, we revisit the very dishes that fueled their journey from humble beginnings. Every Thursday, tune in to catch your favorite icons like Mario, Blame and Ro, and a cupcake millionaire, Minion, Francois.

Listen to the untold stories beyond the limelight. Tales of sacrifices, audacious leaps, nights spent wide awake in the shadow of homelessness they conquered on their rise to fame and prosperity. of sacrifices, audacious leaps, nights spent wide awake in the shadow of homelessness they conquered on their rise to fame and prosperity. She's out of no like, everything ain't for you. Everything's not your battle and everything's not about us. You come in, you play your role, you do what you're supposed to do,

you go to f**king call me, feed your family. Every Thursday, listen to Eating Wall broke on the Black Effect podcast network, I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, wherever you listen to your podcast. The Black Effect podcast network is I Heart Radio App, Apple Podcast, wherever you listen to your podcast. The Black Effect Podcast Network is brought to you by Uber. Earn Like A Boss at uber.com slash boss.

A brand new historical true crime podcast. The year is 1800, a city hall, New York. The first murder trial in the American Judicial System. A man-sense trial for the charge of murder. Even with defense lawyers, Alexander Hamilton and Aaron Burr on the case, this is probably the most famous trial you've never heard of. When you lay suffering a sudden violent brutal death, I hope you'll think of me, starring Allison Williams.

I don't need anything simplified, Mr. Hamilton, thank you. With Tony Goldwyn as Alexander Hamilton, Don't be so sad, that's right, it doesn't suit you. Written and created by me, Alison Flock. Why do I have to do it? Let it go, I'm crazy. Listen to E-Raced, the murder of Elma Sands. She was a sweet, happy, virtuous girl, Until she met that man right there.

On the I Heart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your podcast. I'm murder! ["I'm murder!" plays in the background." plays in the background." plays in the background." So I think it's beyond ridiculous to say that a person who is the beneficiary of an act of kindness gets something out of it too. They literally get something out of it in a lot of times, like if it's a veteran and the rascal that a bunch of people donated to buy him. It can be a goldfish treat. They benefit in that sense,

but they also benefit emotionally as well. And what they found in a bunch of different studies is kind of what we were talking about before. That other elements, like surprise, just the gesture, the thought, like they say, it's the thought that counts. Well, some kind of studies have basically turned that up that if you don't just think about it, but you actually follow through, the people are more moved by the thought, by the gesture than they are, by the goldfish treat or the rascal. Although, I mean, if you give somebody a rascal, they're probably going to be pretty happy. What's a rascal?

Oh, it's a little mobilized get around cart that you see people riding Okay advanced stage or immobility. I got you. All right. I did know those are called rascals. That is the original Tracing for one of the brands and it's just it's become kind of a proprietary eponym. Okay, at least in my house. Yeah So um one of the experiments they did to test this was in 1995. They looked at unhoused folks who went to the ER a lot for treatment and they had a control group who just got their regular old ER visit. And then they had another group that had that visit plus student volunteers who would chat them up, talk about stuff and life and listen to them and held conversations and maybe

gave them a goldfish or something. And they found that the members of the test group were twice as likely to rate their care higher, which makes perfect sense. And this was interesting, the number of ER visits among that group dropped by a third. Yeah. Which I guess indicates that they're healthier, I guess. The researchers took it to mean that the unhoused people

who show up to the ER over and over and over again are basically showing up until they feel like they're being treated like a human being. And that that group were satisfied that they had received good care for once and they stopped coming back to try to get it out of the people in the ER. Oh, and that is really interesting because another way to think of that is like why didn't the people who got that warm care want to come back and say like, boy, that was, you know, that was pretty great. I did that goldfish.

I have a nice conversation with a student. I totally thought the same thing too. Yeah. It's interesting. So there was another study that involved cupcakes and who doesn't want to talk about that? It's a good one. It is, it's a great one.

So the researchers gave strangers or per study participants a cupcake and said, here you go, here's a cupcake, you can do whatever you want with it, but you can also give it to a stranger if you like. And apparently 80% of the participants gave their cupcake away. And I want to know those 20%. I hope they didn't tell them what they were actually studying because I think you'd really have some real soul searching to do after you find out that you're part of the 20% who kept the cupcake for yourself in a kindness study. Yeah, they tell them that like your mouth is full of cupcake and they reveal that to you. And you're like, it'll work. Yeah, you just get to spit it back into

the little wrapper and put it back and then go give it to a stranger. Yeah, and that's when they reveal the milk that you don't get. So, the 80% of people who gave their cupcake away, they asked them, how do you think, how much of an impact do you think this gesture is going to have? Right. And this is a really important thing that they turned up that the people who received the cupcake rated their happiness as higher than the person who gave them the cupcake expected it to be like a lot higher and That's a kind of a human flaw like we're we're we have genetic programming to be kind We also have genetic programming to second- second guess ourselves and be self-conscious and

That prevents us from doing kind acts of kindness in a lot of ways and even when we do acts of kindness We underestimate their effect, but the other part of that cupcake Study that I found interesting is that the people who got the cupcake basically said it was the surprise That that made it such a great happy experience for them. Yeah, like the people who got the cupcake, the 20% who ate it, they rated their happiness and I'm sure they're fairly happy, but not nearly as happy at the people

that were surprised by a stranger, giving them the cupcake. Yeah. So I feel like we fairly well established that being kind is a good thing, and that doesn't actually exist. Yeah, almost. Almost.

What about your family, though, because think about this. Yeah. Giving a cupcake to a stranger who you're never going to see again, there's nothing but pretty much an upside to that. It's all upside. But if you if you gave your cupcake away to a family member, you're going to see that family member later that day after they had a rough day at the office and they're probably

not feeling much gratitude towards you for the cupcake you gave them early in the day, even though you're still feeling good about yourself for having given them your cupcake and there in lies the big rub with Acts of kindness in what are known as strong tie relationships like your family. Yeah, and it seems in the case of family I know it imagined this might go for like very close friend groups as well, but I'm just speculating but in this study in 2017 They had a they showed a very strong correlation in the happiness level, not being dictated by, but being influenced by whether or not these acts of kindness were noticed and acknowledged. So they got people that just got married and they said, spend a couple of weeks recording instances, instance, instance, oh man, times,

in which one spouse would help out their partner, put aside their own, like if you were in the middle doing something, you would stop with a small act of kindness that your partner needs in that moment. And then also while you're doing this, record your emotional state. And they found that acts of kindness that had the most impacts on both the giver and the receiver was when they were noticed and acknowledged. And also found unsurprisingly that when the

the, or maybe surprisingly, yeah, for sure, when the receiver did not consciously noticed it, it still resulted in improved moods for both, especially the giver. Sure. But they were like, these people are in improved moods for both, especially the giver. Sure. But they were like, these people are in the honeymoon phase of their relationship. Exactly. If we did the same experiment 10 years down the road, would that second part still hold up? Right.

And there's a group, there's a pair of researchers. There are a couple, John and Julie Gottman. And they are incredibly famous and credibly well researched and well read and well cited couples researchers. Like they're the real deal legit. Yeah, like marriage therapists. Yes, exactly. They actually are the ones who teach the marriage therapists who go teach other marriage

therapists. They're doing really great firsthand research. And one of the things they found over the course of the career is that acts of kindness, even incredibly small acts of kindness, they can take the form of a, huh, when your spouse is telling you about something you couldn't care less about and you're actually really busy, just that counts as an act of kindness and that the couples who give one another more acts of kindness than not, I think they came up with some ratio of like four positive interactions to one negative interaction is like the key to success.

That those couples who did more kind things to one another had, you know, much more successful and lasting marriages, and that, again, those acts can be very, very small and they'll still have a big impact. Yeah, because what they're talking about, and this is something I've seen in my own marriage at like Emilia and I've been together for over 20 years now, like all in, and once you get into the multiple decade span, you find, and you would be wise to learn how to do this more, but you find that attention is one of the biggest parts that being happily married. And that gives with what you were talking about there

with the study or the gotman stuff with like, I think when you've been with someone for a long time, you find yourself in your routines and like, oh, I'm reading this thing. And, but like Emily will come home with a story about something that just happened. And like, the spouse is wise who will stop what they're doing

just for a moment and pay attention to them in a real way. And do more than a huh. Like, oh wow, that's really cool that that happened to you today. And chances are you can probably get back to what you're doing. The unwise person does not, or they put out that they have to stop what they're doing or that their attention is diverted. And that my friend is not a recipe for success. And I'm having to continually sort of, in a, like train myself still because I think certain people have deficits

when it comes to stuff like that. And also just there's so much stuff now when you know it was a lot easier before there were smartphones and internet and like constant other things that are distracting you. But you are wise to sort of try and be aware of those distractions to pay attention to your family and your spouse. So the way that the Godman's put it is that when your spouse or your friend or whoever is meaningful to you brings up something and saying something that is asking for your attention, they're making a bid for attention. And you have a choice. Like you said, you can pay attention to them. That's what they call turning toward. You can snap at them for always bothering you when you're trying to read. Or you can ignore them, which is not as bad as snapping at them all

the time. But when those ignoring instances add up, it can have a really harmful impact on the relationship. So I guess the upshot of this is that the Gotman's prove that successful relationship is exhausting. Right. And you never get to read the stuff you want to read on your phone. Am I right guys? Yours bother me.

I guess we should talk a little bit here toward the end about gratitude and guilt because acts of kindness many times will spring from guilt. And here's the thing with guilt. Like being consumed by guilt is no good for anybody, but a little bit of guilt every now and then can lead to more generosity. That's the Catholics. I feel like it's almost more of a, it's not like, oh, I feel so guilty, so I have to do this, it's just like, boy, I feel a little guilty, so I'm just a little more aware and on point and trying to do the right thing. Yeah, especially if you know you've hurt someone's feelings and that's what you're feeling guilty about, that's going to turn your kindness into hyperdrive.

But, researchers have found that your kindness is being laser-focused on that person. You're marshalling all of your kindness resources and you're focusing on that poor person who probably doesn't even going to be able to do that. You're not going to be able to do that. You're not going to be able to do that. You're not going to be able to do that. You're not going to be able to do that. You're not going to be able to do that. You're not going to be able to do that. You're not going to be able to do that. You're not going to be able to do that. You're not going to be able to do that.

You're not going to be able to do that. You're not going to be able to do that. You're not going to be able to do that. You're not going to be able to do that. You're not going to be able to do that. You're not going to be able to do that. You're not going to be able to do that. You're not going to be able to do that.

You're not going to be able to do that. You're not going to be able to do that. You're not going to be able to do that. You're not going to be able to do that. You're not going to be able to do that. You're not going to be able to do that. You're not going to be able to do that. You're not going to be able to do that. You're not going to be able to do that. You're not focused on this person. So that guilty sense that can bring you to acts of kindness can very easily become over and overblown in nobody wins. Right. And they've also found that ignoring, like that could cause you to ignore, did you already say that? Ignore other

people. Pretty much. Yeah. You're not you're not paying attention to other people's needs. Yeah. Just focusing on the person who's mad at you because you feel guilty. The gratitude piece, I don't fully understand in this context because they have found in experiments that gratitude does seem to encourage generosity when even when it cost you something. Yeah, normally like people are in a good mood, or if you're in a good mood, you will probably do

like acts of kindness, holding a door for somebody. Doesn't cost you a thing. It's an act of kindness. People consider that a kind gesture, but if you feel gratitude because somebody else did something nice, you're just happy to be alive, you feel that sense of gratitude, you're actually more likely to give somebody your only cupcake, like something that's supposed to get you. Oh, okay. All right, yeah, that makes sense. Okay. And then the other thing about it though is that it doesn't even have to be gratitude toward the person who gave you that cupcake

or you don't have to do something back to them. You can actually take that gratitude and give it to a third party, which is pretty cool, like that whole pay it forward thing. But what another study found, I think back in 2006, they found that that third, that paying it forward thing is unconscious. And that when they pointed it out,

hey, you did a really nice thing for this other person, the third party, because the first party did something nice to you, the second party. If that makes sense in a super legal jargon way. Right. And when they told them that, that sense of gratitude just kind of vanished, like when it became conscious, it went away. But unconsciously, they were more prone to help other people commit acts of kindness for other people because they were feeling gratitude that somebody else did something

nice for them. Have you ever seen that? We talked a little bit about, I think you should leave the sketch show from Tim Robinson. Did you ever watch any of it? Yeah, yeah, watch it all. Oh, okay, that always makes me think the way it forward thing. Maybe, I don't know, they're all great,

but one of his best, my favorite sketches ever is the drive-through when that whole notion of buying like paying for someone's drive-through behind you. And then he speeds around and then 55 burgers, 55 milkshakes, 100 pizzas, 50-hub coffees, so funny. Oh boy, I love that guy. What else, Chuck?

Well, we can wrap it up with a little bit on compassion fatigue. Doing kindness is great, but they have found that if you are someone who works in an industry where you have to have a lot of compassion if you're a hospice nurse, if you are a single parent and you have a child with high needs, if you work at a shelter for unhoused people, and you're just constantly having to give of yourself every day, that you can exhaust yourself of that. And it can be very difficult to work those hours of being nothing but empathetic all day long and doing kindnesses all day long.

And that's compassion fatigue. You can have mood swings. You can be irritable. You can be anxious and depressed. And bad things can happen. So that's why you need to take care of yourself. Self-care is so important when you have a situation like that. Yeah, you can also lose your general basic drive for compassion.

You could start being like, I don't care about any of these people that I'm treating in the ER anymore. I'm so burned out. That's tough stuff. Yes. Fortunately, that's pretty limited to certain occupations or situations like people taking care of a loved one at home 24, 7 basically. And yeah, there's a lot of resources. If you are thinking that you might have compassion fatigue, you should just start reading about it on the web and there's a lot of really good solutions to that that can help. Yeah, take it easy on yourself because it's painful to admit sometimes that stuff is very hard and that you feel resentment and like it's human, like let yourself up. Sure, nice, nice.

That's what I say. And there's one last thing about kindness, that I thought was really great. Like it can be hard to be mindful. It can be hard to cultivate gratitude. Like those aren't just things that just snap into mind like when you want them to, right? The great thing about kindness is it's an action

so you can just do it. Like you don't have to, like it's not something you have to cultivate or work on or a mindset you have to be in. You can just do it. And again, as we've shown, as study, after study, after study, after study has shown, it's beneficial to you and the receiver, and it keeps society going so said Darwin, so do it.

Yeah, do a little experiment. If you're, if you find you're having a very blue period, try holding that door, do a kindness or two and see what that does for you. And just, just chart it and see what happens. Very nice. Well, since Chuck said chart it, everybody, that means it's time for listener mail.

I'm gonna call this a sporty. I thought this was interesting. Okay. This was in regards to our bad business moves or bad business decisions. Sure. And this was a good one. And as an NBA fan, I can't believe I didn't notice. And you're an NBA fan too. Yes. You'll appreciate this. Hey guys, I was late to the show, discovered during the pandemic and was happy to have your voices in my ears through those long days. On the worst-ish business deals, I thought I'd share one of my favorites. When the ABA merged with the NBA back in the 70s, some teams became NBA franchises like the Nets and Indiana and San Antonio and Denver, the Nuggets. and Indiana and San Antonio and Denver, the nuggets. The rest were bought out by the NBA, like, you know,

hey, I'm sorry Kentucky colonels, will give you $3 million to stop being an ABA team. You know you're bad if somebody pays you $3 million to stop playing. The owners of the St. Louis, well, they just had to make them go away, you know. The owners of the St. Louis spirit, the Silenow to make them go away now. The owners of the St. Louis spirit, the Silna Brothers negotiated a smaller deal, 2.2 million, which included a share of television rights and perpetuity.

Up through 2013, this earned the Silna's about $300 million for not operating an MBA team from the 70s. In 2014, the NBA finally bought themselves out of that clause by an agreement of a lump sum $500 million payment. So the Silma's total pocket was $800 million from the NBA to not have an NBA team. It may not be the worst business steal of all time, may have been the worst in pro sports, worst I guess for the NBA. Sure. That's amazing, I had never heard that. So that is from Steve Sondin and Seattle.

Sorry about the Supersonics. Washington. Thanks Steve, that was a great one. I had not heard anything about that and it's kind of nice to hear some. It's amazing. Some people in Kentucky making $800 million. Northern Kentucky probably too.

Yeah. If you want to get in touch with us like Steve did, you can send us an email. Send it off to stuffpodcasts.iHeartRadio.com. What's your favorite show? Stuff you should know is a production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts, my heart radio, visit the I Heart Radio app.

Apple podcasts are wherever you listen to your favorite shows. 13 Days of Halloween, Penance. Season 4 of the award-winning horror fiction podcast presented in immersive 3D audio. If I am under arrest, you have to tell me what I'm charged with. Starring Natalie Morales of Parks and Recreation and Dead To Me. Please, you've been some kind of mistake. I'm not supposed to be here.

How do you know? I'm innocent. Are any of us truly innocent? Premiering October 19th, ending Halloween. Listen to 13 days of Halloween on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. of Halloween on the IHART radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.