Stuff You Should Know - Rhinoplasty, aka Nose Jobs

Episode Date: May 12, 2022

Nose jobs have been around a lot longer than you think. And the process is pretty interesting. Tune in for all things rhinoplasty. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hey, I'm Lance Bass, host of the new iHeart podcast Frosted Tips with Lance Bass. Do you ever think to yourself, what advice would Lance Bass and my favorite boy bands give me in this situation? If you do, you've come to the right place because I'm here to help. And a different hot sexy teen crush boy bander each week to guide you through life. Tell everybody, yeah, everybody about my new podcast and make sure to listen so we'll never, ever have to say bye, bye, bye. Listen to Frosted Tips with Lance Bass on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to podcasts. I'm Munga Chauticular and it turns out astrology is way more widespread than any of us want to

believe. You can find in Major League Baseball, International Banks, K-pop groups, even the White House. But just when I thought I had a handle on this subject, something completely unbelievable happened to me and my whole view on astrology changed. Whether you're a skeptic or a believer, give me a few minutes because I think your ideas are about to change too. Listen to Skyline Drive on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeart Radio. Hey and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh and there's Chuck and there's Jerry. And this is Stuff You Should Know, the Schnauz edition.

Such a great word. It is man and it's such a great descriptor too. Like I consider my nose a schnauz. There's a big difference between a schnauz and a nose and I've got a schnauz. Yeah and what I think is even funnier and this goes back to the Saturday Night Live. Which one was it? It was a Martin Short season and it was one of the Martin Short sketches where he's doing, I think Nathan Thurm was the attorney that he did occasionally. And he said the word schnauz, like schnauz without the sh. And it just made it even funnier. He said, we don't make schnauzes. You're talking about fake noses. So did he get it wrong or did he mess up a line or what was the deal?

Oh, I think it was just the comedic genius of Martin Short. Yeah, he's pretty good. And speaking of which, this has nothing to do with that, but we're teasing out listener mail today early because we have collected, I knew we'd get some good grilled cheese tips and we collected a little small compendium so it's going to be a bit of an extended listener mail where we go over the listener mail tips for grilled cheese sandwiches. We're really going to wear out that background music. Let's just stick around.

So we're talking nose jobs today, Chuck, also called rhinoplasty. You would think rhinoplasty is the clinical term and I guess technically it is, but if you are a plastic surgeon or cosmetic surgeon, you would probably not call it that any longer. You'd call it nose sculpting instead, which to me really kind of underscores the vibe about nose jobs today. That is a little bit here, a little bit there, nothing too ridiculously radical and that's a far cry from the rhinoplasty of the past from what I understand. Yeah, I've heard it calls nose reshaping as well and rhinoplasty itself comes from Greek, of course, rhino, meaning nose. Or schnaz.

And plasticos, P-L-A-S-I-K-O-S, which looks so-so Greek, means to shape into mold and that's what plastic surgery comes from, of course. So rhinoplasty is just reshaping the schnaz. Man, you are on fire in 2022, man. Really? Yeah. Yes. I mean, no. It took 14 years.

No, you've been on fire, but I'm saying like, you've really just stepped it up in the last like this past year. I don't know what the deal is, but I love it. I'm loving it. I'm here for it and I want more and more. All right. Nowhere to go but down. That's right. That's what they call a setup. You're going to do great, Chuck. What kind of snot? Thank you for that, by the way. I do mirror and try to move on very quickly when given a compliment. Yeah.

So let's do that here. That's fine. That's fine, but I also want to add something to that. That is now the last time I'm going to like drag one of your great jokes out and like, you know, beat it with a rug beater until it's totally not funny anymore. Now I'm fully on board, so I'm just going to play along. Okay. And act like it's just normal. Yeah. What kind of nose job would someone get? Why would someone want a nose job?

There's all sorts of reasons you could want a nose job. You could be a seventh century BCE Indian thief or adulterer and have had your nose lopped off as punishment. Okay. Bring it forward. You could have been in one of the world wars and been facially injured by a mine. Bring it forward. You could have been born with a kind of nose that is a characteristic of your ethnicity and want to have changed it to fit in with Waspe mid-century America. Getting closer. And then lastly, you can also want to reshape your nose for medical reasons as well.

Right. The only thing you left out, which, and we're going to get to all this stuff in greater detail, is you may have had syphilis, which led at a time in our history that left you with kind of a hole in the front of your face. And just big tip for people, do not Google syphilis nose and look for images because while you will see that, and that is alarming in and of itself, you will see lots of nastiness that you won't be able to forget anytime soon. Yeah. Because apparently syphilis causes necrosis of your soft tissues and, you know, soft tissues combined and kind of give us a characteristic appearance. And then when that soft tissue is missing, it can be, you know, disarming at first or alarming

at first until you just stop and think like, well, it's the person, you know. That's right. So as far as cosmetic stuff goes, and if this is purely like, hey, I just don't really like the way my nose looks, and I would like to get it to look the way I want it to look. Some of the reasons are just facial balance, like how big your face is in relation to the size of your nose. You might have trouble with the width of your nose, or it might have something to do with a visible hump or bump, which I love. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I think it's called a Roman nose.

Yes. That has sort of the hump. Yeah. Yeah. I find that to be a very attractive feature on a lady. Gotcha. Okay. Cool. So I'm a fan. So, you know, that would be something you would see more in profile, or, you know, it might be the tip of your nose might droop or be turned up in a more,

I guess they call it, technically, they call it a pug fashion, or it might be hooked, or you might not like your nostrils. They may not be symmetrical. Like, they can kind of do whatever you want done these days. Yeah. That's definitely true. And one of the things that has evolved as far as nose jobs goes that I kind of touched on earlier is it's no, it used to be especially in the heyday of the mid-century, the 50s and 60s, when, you know, nose jobs really started to take off for cosmetic reasons, especially among people of Jewish ancestry in America. There was like a, I want this nose, you go in with a magazine picture, or you go in with your friend and be like,

give me her nose. You did her nose. I want the same nose. And like there was a, just this kind of general idea that you, you just got exactly the nose you wanted without any regard to whether that nose actually looked natural on your face. Right. And it's evolved over time. And one of the reasons why is because there was like a perfect nose, an American nose, a Caucasian nose that was like an ideal version of beauty. And over time, especially in the last like 10 or so years, it seems like there's been a huge sea change in the way people who get nose jobs approach it and that they're like, can you just take the more extreme features of my nose? Like you just went over on that list and just kind of tone them down a little bit. Don't give me a different nose. I want

a slightly more idealized version of my nose. I want to look like myself. I don't want somebody else's nose. I just want it tamed a little bit. And that's kind of where it stands today from everything I saw as far as nose jobs go. Yeah. And it sort of reminds me of that great scene from the movie singles when Bridget Fonda goes in for breast augmentation surgery. And Bill Pullman is the surgeon. Yeah, Bill Pullman. And I wasn't thinking Bill Paxton, I just couldn't remember if it was Bill Pullman. Sure. And she, you know, they have the little weird science program where they make the breast larger or smaller by just hitting up or down on the computer. And she goes way big. And he's like, why don't we like fit your frame

a little more? He's sort of trying to talk her into just a more reasonable form of that surgery. And I think, and that was a long time ago. And I think you're right. I think these days, and of course, people get all kinds of extreme, you know, body surgery done. But I think these days it is a little bit more common for someone to say like, hey, I'm not trying to look like a completely different version, but this one thing has always bothered me. Yeah. And then one other thing I want to say too, that seems to be a common part of the discussion around nose jobs is a lot of people who get them tend to view them as not so much like a physical operation or it is a physical operation, but it's to correct a psychological

issue that the person doesn't actually, like there's nothing wrong with their nose. They just don't like their nose and they've come to dislike their nose so much that they have trouble like living their life because they're so self-conscious about it. And to them, people who get nose jobs say, this is, this is, this is just smart. Like there's no reason for me not to do this. It's going to help. And apparently it does help sometimes. So I don't encourage it one way or the other. I certainly don't judge or criticize or anybody who does get a nose job if they feel like it's the right thing for them. But it just seems Chuck very much in step with the 21st century and the people in their late teens and 20s and even early 30s are just so aware, way more aware

than we were when we were their age, that that kind of has to do with nose jobs who has translated and transferred over to nose jobs that people are just thinking more about it rather than, I hate my nose. I want this nose, you know? Yeah. I think it falls into the general umbrella of like now there is a lot more sort of shunning of this idealized beauty notion than there has been in a long time. And I'm not weighing in one or the other either because it's a very personal choice. But I will say that I do love the idea of this idealized form of beauty being kind of kicked to the curb to say something more modern. Indeed. There are a few things that have been more harmful that didn't involve like guns or explosions than a single idealized form of beauty, you know?

All right. So, I agree. Let's go over some statistics right out of the gate. Most of these are from the United States. We do have a few international statistics, but it seems like those are a little harder to trust just based on how they're gathered. But about 2.3 million, I think this is complete cosmetic surgical procedures in the U.S. in 2020. And I think nose reshaping is and was the most common. About 352,000 nose jobs in 2020 in the U.S. Far more women, 287,000 compared to 65,000 men. And teens make up about 13% of those. 20 to 29-year-olds make up 31%. If you live out West, you're more likely about a third of the nose jobs are performed out West. I don't know if that means, you know, Los Angeles County.

And then Caucasian white people get way more nose jobs than anyone else by a long shot. 71% of those jobs in 2020 were on Caucasians, African Americans with just 5%, Hispanic 10% in Asian Pacific Islander 11%. So if you're a white American 25-year-old woman living in Los Angeles, there's basically 100% chance that you're going to get a nose job. I think you have to. From what I'm seeing here. What about internationally? Well, like you said, the stats are a little wobbly compared to the USA stats, but apparently Brazil is number one. They're the leader, followed by Turkey and America. And then Argentina and Russia. This list, I've seen reference elsewhere that Iran is actually

number four behind Brazil, Mexico and America. So it's just up for grabs. Apparently the rhinoplasty reporting standards around the world have something to be desired. Sure. But let's just say in the top five, six, seven, you could definitely have Brazil, the United States, Mexico, Iran, Turkey, that kind of thing. Right. I think that's because the way they count rhinoplasty around the world is they just have a little, like a suggestion box type thing on the way out. And they say, well, you like to keep track of who does this. So just write your real name on a piece of paper and just stick it in there. Sure. Or we'll just trust you to do that. There is a big mistranslation and they accidentally translated not schnaz, but snaz and confused

everybody else. That's good. Should we take a break here and then dive into the history? Sure. All right, let's do it. Hey, I'm Lance Bass, host of the new iHeart podcast Frosted Tips with Lance Bass. The hardest thing can be knowing who to turn to when questions arise or times get tough or you're at the end of the road. Okay, I see what you're doing. Do you ever think to yourself, what advice would Lance Bass and my favorite boy bands give me in this situation? If you do, you've come to the right place because I'm here to help. This I promise you. Oh, God. Seriously, I swear. And you won't have to send an SOS because I'll be there for you. Oh, man. And so my husband, Michael, um, hey, that's me. Yeah,

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So Chuck, I made reference before about living in 600 or the 7th century BCE. And maybe you were undergoing a rhinoplasty operation because you had your nose removed as a punishment. That's actually where rhinoplasty began. It's not like there was some ridiculously primitive procedure that somebody tried once, and then the idea was lost for a couple thousand years. And then it got developed in the 19th century by some British guy. That's not at all how it happened. There was an Indian surgeon named Sushrita, which is not his name. It's actually an adjective that means renowned. But Sushrita is considered the father of cosmetic surgery, and that this guy was not only performing cosmetic surgery like

rebuilding noses from nothing. He was documenting it too in medical texts that he wrote that survived. And he created a technique called the Indian Flap that was still in use into the 20th century. Is that how it's pronounced? His name? Sushrita? That's what I'm going, or Sushrita? I mean, it's a U. I guess I'm in the mood for a Margarita. I'm in the mood to do a little dance called the Indian Flap because that sounds like a lot of fun at a party. The surgical procedure, not so fun. No. I mean, should we read part of this, I guess, or should we read all of it? I think it's worthwhile, yeah. All right, so this was a description of the Indian Flap technique from Sushrita, aka Sushrita himself. The portion of the nose to

be covered should be first measured with a leaf, as you do. Then a piece of skin of the required size should be dissected from the living skin of the cheek, which is super advanced. They still, I mean, scrafting, right? Right. And it's leaving a blood supply coming from the cheek still. Yeah. Very smart. Very good. So we're approving of these surgical methods. But 2600-year-old surgical methods, you know? We're in a position to do that. We live in the 21st century, baby. Yeah, exactly. Let me see. Desected from the living skin of the cheek and turned back to cover the nose, keeping a small pedestal attached to the cheek, which is what you referenced. The physician should then place the skin on the nose and stitch the two parts

swiftly, keeping the skin properly elevated by inserting two tubes of Iranda, which is a castor oil plant, in the position of the nostril so that the new nose gets proper shape when the skin has united and granulated. If the nose is too short or too long, the middle of the flap should be divided and an endeavor made to enlarge or shorten it. So it sounds like they're just taking part of the cheek, folding it back over into itself to meet the other part with a tube in the middle and then having it grow together, right? Yeah, two tubes actually. Yeah, and they still do that today. They use stents to have the procedure hold its place or shape afterward, and they leave it in there until it heals. So like this guy was basically, it's like that saying, I can't

remember where it came up, but somebody was describing how advanced this development was or whatever development it was right out of the gate where they said that they basically invented the airplane fully functioning with like tray tables for in-flight meals and everything. Like totally, this guy just figured it out from the outset. Yeah. And it's not like we're taking the skin from your cheek today and using that to build a brand new nose that would probably actually be more likely to take it from other parts of your body. But the concepts are still very much the same. And it's weird to think that rhinoplasty has been around kind of unchanged for almost 3,000 years. Yeah. And just to reiterate so it's clear, this is the procedure when there was no

more nose because it had been completely cut off. So they're really starting from zero and forming a new nose. And yeah, it's pretty amazing. And I'm sure compared to what, I mean, no matter the result, it probably looked better than what they had going on before. Yeah. It would be my guess. Oh yeah. So this technique made its way through Egypt or out from India into Egypt over to Europe finally where they were dealing with syphilis outbreaks in the 15th and 16th century like you were mentioning. There's an Italian surgeon that made his contribution, Gaspar. Actually, I think you should take this. Gaspar I taglia cosi. Very nice. And back in 1597, he said, I'm really going to advance this. Instead of that skin from your cheek, I'm going to take it from

your upper arm. So he just kind of did a modified Indian flap and I guess you'd call that the Italian flap. But then finally in the 19th century, there were a couple of surgeons in the late 19th century who really kind of duke it out for the title of father of plastic surgery or at least aesthetic plastic surgery because we got really good at doing things like rebuilding noses using rhinoplasty. And we got so good at it that people started saying like, hey, your nose is perfectly fine and it functions. But would you like to take a little off the top and cosmetic surgery was born? That's right. I believe the first gentleman you're referring to is a Michigander. Is that what they call themselves? I think it's actually Gander. I'm not kidding. A Michigander? Yes,

because I saw an interview with, I can't remember their governor's name, but she had a sign that said like proud Michigander. Yeah, yeah, another governor. Okay, Michigander. I like that. 1887, his name was John Orlando Rowe. And this was, I think technically the first paper about cosmetic nose jobs called correction of the pug deformity. And then the next guy, he had some fun nicknames. He was a Jewish German surgeon named Dr. Jacques Joseph. And his nickname was Nose Joseph. Pretty good. Yeah, he actually kind of ties into our episode on World War I soldier masks. Do you remember that? That's right. Yeah, I knew this Rungabelle. I get the impression that he was probably working in the same, maybe the same

campus that the guy who led that mask department to build masks for soldiers who came back with facial differences from like bombs and bullets and stuff. This guy was actually doing cosmetic surgery to help prepare those injuries. And he got interested eventually in making changes to help Jewish Europeans fit in better. And we'll talk a little more about that later when we talk about ethnic cosmetic surgery. But that was kind of like his evolution. He went from helping soldiers to kind of helping, you know, wealthy citizenry in Europe. And because of that, because of this guy showed that there was a huge demand that no one realized was actually there before, a huge explosion of, I don't know, charlatans, ne'er-do-wells, shiftless slackers.

Snake-hole salesmen. Sure. Who figured out like, hey, I'll just give this a shot. How hard can it be? And the rise of the beauty doctor came along. Yeah, the beauty doctor, it's sort of a contradictory name, I would imagine, because these were the unlicensed practitioners, outpatient nose jobs, like, hey, I've got some paraffin wax. Let me inject that in there. Because that's a great idea. Just don't go out in the sun. Right. And it's also carcinogenic. So this was, you know, a very sort of cut rate job that you didn't have to pay a lot of money for. And it's probably, you know, the expectation was not great. But it was at a time where, I guess, you know, legitimate plastic surgery was just entering the fray. So people didn't know any better. And so there were a lot of bad,

bad outcomes, I think, from these beauty doctors. What's nuts to me, Chuck, is this still going on today with butt augmentation? There's a lot of underground, like, unlicensed people who use non-medical stuff like silicone and pump it into people's butts to, like, make your butt bigger. And it's cheaper. Like you said, it's much cheaper because they're unlicensed and they kind of know what they're doing from experience. But they also have no way of getting you to the hospital. They're not doing this in the hospital. And some people have died. I read about a mother-daughter team who killed a woman because they injected silicone and they accidentally got it into her muscle, which introduced it to the bloodstream and killed her within an hour. So it's really sad.

And apparently there've been other people who died like this. So it's still going on. But as far as rhinoplasty is concerned, I'm pretty sure it's widespread enough and just affordable enough that people aren't going to underground surgeons like they were in the 19th century for it. Yeah. I mean, it's sad that that still exists and that people can get away with doing this stuff, like, out of their houses, you know? Yeah. So things boomed in the 1950s in the U.S., like you were talking. And I guess now comes the time where we talk a little bit about the procedure itself and the nose itself. It's a little, you know, what really helps is if you're not driving a car or something, if you can just look up sort of a profile of the nose that's

labeled for the different parts, which Dave Ruse put this together for us, right? Yeah, he did. He did a great job too. Yeah. Dave was kind enough to actually include a picture like this, which really helps kind of break it all down. You've got your upper third of the nose, which is the nasal bone and is just, you know, that's where the bone is. That's where if you get your, if you get popped in the square in the nose with somebody's fist and you break your nose, you're breaking that nasal bone because almost all of the rest is what's known as cartilage, which is just, you know, that's what, that's the shape that you're seeing. And that's why you can squish on the front of your nose and your nostrils. And it's, you know, it just feels like,

what does it feel like? Help me out. It feels more rubbery than the top part of it. Rubbery. There you go. And also, even if you don't have a phone or you can't look at pictures right now, you can feel the difference. Like if you pinch the bridge of your nose and just kind of slide it down past about a third of the way down toward the tip and just kind of move it, wiggle it back and forth, you can feel that's bone. It's not moving. That's cartilage. That's, that's going to move. It's going to do the Indian flap if you move it enough. No, I want to sneeze. Don't make me sneeze. Just put your tongue up against the roof of your mouth. Is that supposed to work actually? Yeah, it also works for ice cream headaches too.

Oh, okay. Man, we're just slinging the knowledge today. Here we are. So then you've got your radix, R-A-D-I-X. This is the built up cartilage over the ridge of your nose. And this is where you might get, like if you have a hump on your nose, it's probably going to be on that radix. And this might be something that people choose to get flattened out. Yep. You also have one of the more interesting pieces of your body that I didn't realize the name of it, but I love it now that I know it. The collumella, which is the little skin between your two nostrils, the little kind of vertical strip of skin that separates your nostrils. I thought that was a septum. I learned all kinds of stuff when I did that.

The septums inside your nose, the collumella is the part you can actually touch. Yeah. So just touch the little piece of skin between your nose and my friend. You're touching your collumella. That's right. The septums up inside your nose above that, and it actually continues the separation of your nostrils in your nose. Yeah. And see, I always thought, because I just, I never knew much about this stuff or looked into it because I have a great nose, but I always thought a deviated septum meant that the septum was actually like had a hole in it. It can. That's perforated really, though. That can happen through habitual cocaine use. Well, yeah. You always heard that story

about Mick Jagger, which is probably not even true. But his septum fell out or something? Yeah. He had it. It was completely dissolved at some point. No, that can't happen. I saw a study where out of like 104 cocaine users who used 10 or more times a month, just a pretty heavy cocaine user, like 10 of them, 10% had a perforated septum, and that eventually gets so perforated that your septum can just kind of fall in and your actual nose can collapse. Yeah. I think I wasn't saying that that's not possible. I just doubted that it was Mick Jagger because it just seemed like one of those far out celebrity rumor things. Yeah. But who knows? He certainly was familiar with that drug at one point in his life.

Right. It's like the time Reggie Jackson slash Eddie Murphy slash Lionel Richie told that lady in the elevator to sit down, but it was actually his dog he was talking to. Yeah. Referred our episode on Urban Legends from a gazillion years ago. And then, wait, we're missing one more piece. Oh, just the tip. Yeah. Just the LAR, A-L-A-R cartilage is the tip there. And that's where, you know, if your tip turns up a little bit, they call that the pug deformity or they did back then. Right. I'm not sure what they would call it now. A cute button nose. A cute button nose, or if it has a little tiny hook at the end. A cute little hook. Some people might want to get that done. Who knows? Who knows? I mean, there's few more personal decisions to whether

you get a nose job or not. Yeah. Like I almost can't think of one. And by almost, I mean, I can't. Right. So you've got all these different parts of the nose and we went over them because they all kind of come into play depending on what you're going to do. But, you know, one of the leading reasons people go in for rhinoplasty is to get their nose reduced in size in some way, shape, or form. You can also increase the size of your nose. One very common type of rhinoplasty is where you actually elongate the nose to have it come further off of your face so that in relation to your face, your nose appears narrower. Even though they haven't sized down your nose, they just made it longer, which makes it seem narrower. A lot of this is kind of optical illusion.

Yeah. That's called projection rhinoplasty. And that obviously is going to require you graph something from another body part or from a cadaver. That happens as well. Yeah. I'm not sure why they would do that instead of one of your own, unless you didn't want any of the rest of your body being removed. I don't know. Who knows? But yeah, they definitely do. They'll use that from cadavers. They can use it from rib cartilage, septum cartilage, ear cartilage. There's a lot of places they can harvest cartilage from, and you don't need a lot. I get the very distinct impression that a little bit of rhinoplasty goes a very long way. I think that's true. I don't know if we really kind of harped on this or not, Chuck,

but remember when you said plasticose means plastic or to shape or to mold in that sense? That's something I think we should point out because for a very long time, I always thought plastic surgery meant that they were inserting plastic stuff in there. Yeah. I think a lot of people think that. I never thought that. Yeah. Interesting. All right. No, they mean plastic in the term of something being able to be molded or bent or changed or shaped. That's what they're using the term plastic for. There's no plastic use. They're using cartilage. They're using bone. They're removing cartilage. They're removing bone. And depending on where you remove cartilage or where you remove bone, it has a huge effect on the overall appearance and shape and size of your

nose. That's right. It's a bit of a misnomer that you have to have your nose broken to have rhinoplasty. That is usually not true, although it can be. They've really come a long way over the years and kind of like with every surgery. It's as non-invasive as it can get these days. And there are a couple of different types. There are open and closed rhinoplasties, and they each have their advantages. But with the open type, you're going to make that incision and the Columula? Columula, I think. Columula, man. I really messed that up. And that is that thin strip of skin that you talked about between your nostrils. So a little incision there. And then you can access the cartilage from that point and the bone

through that single incision. They like this when it takes a little longer for the swelling to go down, I think. And you might have a little bit of a scar, but I think this is the one that they prefer to use when you need a little more work done than usual, a little more cartilage. Right. Because cutting that Columula allows them to lift the skin off of your nose and access it more readily. So if they're doing extensive work, this is just going to make it easier for them, which just the thought of that makes me want to faint, but that's what they do. The closed version makes me want to faint only slightly less, but they actually go into your nostrils and up to a certain point, depending on where they're going to be doing work.

And they make an incision at each nostril, which then that allows them access to the cartilage and the bone along the nose. And that has a much quicker recovery time compared to the open rhinoplasty, like you were saying. Right. And you're not going to have a visible scar because it's up in your little nastras. Right. That is something, like even though you're not getting your nose broken, if you get an open rhinoplasty and probably just about any type of cosmetic rhinoplasty, you are going to have a recovery time where you basically want to set aside two weeks to where you can just take care of yourself at home because you're going to look very much beaten up with black eyes. Your nose is going to be extremely sensitive. One of the things I saw that you're

supposed to do during recovery is to avoid blowing your nose. The thought of that makes me want to faint too. Blowing your nose after a rhinoplasty. You want to eat soft foods, brush your teeth gently. For sneezing. Yeah. You don't want to sneeze because again, you're going to have stents in your nose that are holding the shape that are keeping the sutures from coming out. And you basically have to mouth breathe. And that's, I mean, that's from the really cosmetic rhinoplasty, but there's actually other reasons to get rhinoplasty too that are medical reasons. And here's where your insurance kicks in. That's right. We mentioned, I mentioned the deviated septum. I thought it meant that it was

completely like worn away or there was a hole, which can be the case. But usually deviated septum more commonly, that is, is when that internal wall is instead of kind of straight, vertically down the center, which you have to like sort of clear airways for the nasal passages, it's moved over to one side a little more. So you've got one nasal passage that has very little room. And I would assume the other has more room, right? Not to, to an advantageous way, but I guess it can. It depends on what's going on with the septum. But yeah, I guess it's like a three car garage, you know, with you. So I'm actually getting this done. All right. Yeah. That's what that was the idea that sparked this episode, actually.

Oh, okay. So I went in for a consult, Chuck, and I saw my septum and one of them, the, the PA was like, I, I can't even get the camera back there. Your septum is so pressed up against the inside of your nose. She didn't say the other one was wide open, although, you know, I can tell I can actually breathe through it. But so I went in and got a CT scan and now I'm waiting for them to go over the results with me, but I'm pretty sure I'm going to be getting it. And I'm scared to death because it turns out a friend of mine didn't know this, Wes, his name is Wes, he just got it done. And he said that recovery was like some of the worst days of his entire life. Oh no. He said it was so rotten. He said his, his throat was

like gravel for mouth breathing. His nose was in pain. He had these stents in his nose. And apparently his doctor didn't tell him that he'd put stents in. So Wes had no idea what was wrong. He just knew his nose felt all screwed up. And then he finally went in for the, the, um, like the week later follow up and the doctor pulled the stents out and he said it was just a whoosh of air through his nose. Like he's never experienced before. He said he almost fainted from hyper ventilating breathing. So I'm like, that's what I want. I'm willing to go through this for that. So, um, Wes scared me. And then another one of our listeners wrote in when I was talking about getting it done, who was like, you should get it done, but you should also go into it knowing

how rough the recovery is because everybody down plays it. And so I guess hopefully it's going to help me a little bit knowing to expect it. I think maybe it was so bad for them because they were caught off guard. And now if I'm expecting the worst, it might not be as bad, but I'm going to go get it done. Good. Yeah. And good luck. Thanks. I'm sure it'll be fine. Let me ask you a couple of follow ups. Oh, sure. Uh, so if you like hold the good side, if you pinch the good side down, can you breathe it all through the other side? A little, a little, not much. Man, that must be frustrating to live with. It is. Um, yes, it is, but I didn't, I just thought it was normal until I got diagnosed with a deviated septum. And then I was like, oh, okay.

And I actually asked the doctor who diagnosed me like, dude, how did I get that? He's like, I don't know. Maybe your mom dropped you on the head. You got in a fight when you were little. And I was like, I know the fight he's talking about. Really? My friend, Sami in sixth grade, and I got into a fight and the only time I've ever been punched in the nose, he punched me in the nose. And I guarantee that's when I got a deviated septum. Oh, Sami, we got to track that guy down. Yeah. Make him pay for this. Yeah. Yeah. He should at least cover like, okay. Financially, you know, not, not rough him up. Right. Right. No, of course. We got to make him pay. Right. This is like, I'm like Kanye and Sami's Pete Davidson. All right.

So let me ask you this, and this may be too personal, but you know, they talk about two birds, one stone. If you go in, insurance will cover the medical portion, the actual deviated septum. But while people are in there, sometimes they will choose to get a little work done that you have to fit the bill for. But I think the thinking is, while you're in there, I never liked X about my nose. Like, I know you talk about not liking your nose. You're going to do anything or do you even want to talk about that? Well, you know, I was looking at my nose as recently as today, just to ask myself that question, honestly, because like, it's not like I don't like my nose. It just kind of took me many years to finally be like, I'm like, I'm fine with my

nose. It's fine. It's my nose. I'm cool with it. This is what I look like. I like your nose. Thank you. If you look at it a certain way in profile, I look like a cartoon gangster, like from a Dick Tracy strip. It kind of looks a little bit like that. But yeah, so I actually was like, nope, I'm not going to. It's fine. I like my nose. I'm probably less opposed to it than I was before I researched this episode. But yeah, I don't think I'm going. I'm definitely not this time around, but I don't think I probably ever will. Well, here's what you do. As you're going under, you just slip a little sticky note into the surgeon's hand. They'll unfold it and it just says, if you happen to get rid of a little extra while you're in there by accident, I won't be mad at

you. Are you telling me that I should get a nose job? Is that what I'm hearing from you? No, no, I was just joking around. I like your nose. I never thought your nose was quote unquote big until you started talking about it. And then I mean, people look how they look and you don't like have any prominent nose features like a hump or anything. So I never thought you had a big nose. I guess I don't know where I got that idea. I think people look at themselves obviously more critically. Like, yeah, I look how I look. I see myself in a picture and I'm sometimes horrified at like the kind of shape I'm in right now. But you know, your friends and family walk around and they're just like, oh, that's what you look like right now. Well, that's funny because I think

I trace my awareness of my nose back to Valentine's Day. When I was eight, my family always made a big deal out of Valentine's Day. We'd put cards on one another's chairs at dinner and then have dinner and we get to open our Valentine's Day cards. And I remember one from my mom and dad that said, your nose is really big, but we love you anyway. Happy Valentine's Day, mom and dad. What? I'm just kidding. Okay. That was good. You got me. I don't know where I got the idea that my nose is big, but I'm pretty, it's pretty well seated in my, my idea of myself. All right. Well, that's very wonderful of you to be open like this because this is the kind of stuff that people don't talk about a lot, I think. That's true. That's true. I guess not. Although I think

people are starting to talk about it more and more. Yeah. All right. So before we take a break and finish up about this whole idea of what's called racial passing, we will just quickly mention how much these things cost. All in generally about five to nine to $10,000 is what I've seen for rhinoplasty. It depends on where you are. Yeah. In Atlanta, it's 6,500 to 8,500. In LA, the same thing's going to cost you 10 grand to 15 grand. And that's an average cost. So there's definitely much higher. But from what I'm seeing, like if you, it's one of those things where you do your research and you find the doctor that you feel comfortable with and you go to them. Like if you're spending 10 grand on your nose, you probably can swing a couple hundred bucks,

maybe twice to go fly out to somewhere else in the United States or somewhere else in Europe to go to the doctor that you feel is going to do the best job. That's right. All right. So let's take that break and we'll talk a little bit about ethnic rhinoplasty right after this. Hey, I'm Lance Bass, host of the new iHeart podcast Frosted Tips with Lance Bass. The hardest thing can be knowing who to turn to when questions arise or times get tough or you're at the end of the road. Okay, I see what you're doing. Do you ever think to yourself, what advice would Lance Bass and my favorite boy bands give me in this situation? If you do, you've come to the right place because

I'm here to help. This, I promise you. Oh, God. Seriously, I swear. And you won't have to send an SOS because I'll be there for you. Oh, man. And so my husband, Michael, um, hey, that's me. Yeah, we know that Michael and a different hot sexy teen crush boy band are each week to guide you through life step by step. Oh, not another one. Kids relationships life in general can get messy. You may be thinking this is the story of my life. Just stop now. If so, tell everybody everybody about my new podcast and make sure to listen so we'll never ever have to say bye bye bye. Listen to Frosted Tips with Lance Bass on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcast or wherever you listen to podcasts. I'm Mangesh Atikular. And to be honest, I don't believe in astrology. But from the moment

I was born, it's been a part of my life in India. It's like smoking. You might not smoke, but you're going to get second hand astrology. And lately, I've been wondering if the universe has been trying to tell me to stop running and pay attention. Because maybe there is magic in the stars, if you're willing to look for it. So I rounded up some friends and we dove in and let me tell you, it got weird fast. Tantric curses, major league baseball teams, canceled marriages, K-pop. But just when I thought I had a handle on this sweet and curious show about astrology, my whole world came crashing down. Situation doesn't look good. There is risk to father. And my whole view on astrology, it changed. Whether you're a skeptic or a believer,

I think your ideas are going to change too. Listen to Skyline Drive and the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right. This is something we have to talk about. It's sort of one of the uglier parts of this podcast episode, but we have to cover things in full. And there are surgeons who specialize in what's known as ethnic rhinoplasty with the idea that, and there's really no other way to say it, then they will augment your nose to look more European or Caucasian, if that's something that you're looking for. Yeah. And I mean, today it's just kind of, I think in some ways it still ties into this idea of, I could look more beautiful than I do if I have this. It's definitely a far

cry from, I need to pass or fit in so I can get a job or marry a husband like it was in America in the 50s and 60s as a big driver for nose jobs. But then I think if we trace it back to the 19th century was Jacques Joseph, there was this idea that you could judge a person's moral character based on their nose, right? Oh, absolutely. I mean, if you had just a very sort of smallish, straight nose, it was sort of a sign of a higher class. If you had any sort of like bumps or hooks to your nose, you were maybe someone to not be trusted. And these all come from the oldest like dirty ethnic stereotypes that have been around since time immemorial. Yeah. And nose Joseph was one of, like you said, he was one of those doctors that, and these are

their words that they're using, but they called it the defect of Jewish nostrility, which is an actual word. Oh, is it? And it would help people pass at a time when being Jewish was either looked down upon or could threaten your life or like you said, maybe lead you to not getting a job as easily as you should based on your qualifications. Yeah. Drop the burger, the steam from your last statement. All of a sudden you're just a plain Jane, average American, mid-century Joe or Jane. That's right. So that was actually like Jacques Joseph. And then the advent of like readily available plastic surgery was like hugely helped along by this idea that Jewish people just kind of needed to do this. And apparently became such a rite of passage, Chuck,

that by like the 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, like it was a pretty routine sweet 16 gift for Jewish girls in America to get their parents would buy them a nose job. That was just kind of how it went, which is extraordinarily sad. But if you kind of can take that and hold it for a second, it kind of highlights just how far the younger generations of today have come in relation to that. Because moms whose parents bought their nose job when they were 16 are like going to offer it to their kids, their daughters is in particular now. And their daughters are like, what are you crazy? No, I'm fine with my nose. I love my nose. Why do you not like my nose? Leave me alone. That seems to be like getting more increasingly prevalent.

Yeah. I mean, I think Generation Z is leading the charge on accepting who you are and what you look like and what you're shaped like. And it's great. I mean, we're Generation X, so we see that underneath us. And we came from seeing boomers above us that had the moms and the dads who are like, hey, why don't you get a nose job, honey? That kind of thing. So we're just sort of caught in the middle in this no man's land almost of this generational shift, it seems like. Yeah. But I think there are plenty of Gen Xers that followed in that tradition of getting the nose job around age 16 or something like that. Well, yeah, I think because of the influence of the boomers. I'm not blaming boomers for everything, but you know, you sent that article about the

actress Jennifer Gray and very famously had a larger nose that I thought looked great. Yeah. And then had a surgery where she had a very different nose, completely changed the way she looked. And she said in that article, she's talking about it a lot more now, that her mom, who was an actor, said, you know, she was the one that encouraged her and said, honey, why don't you go get this done? You'll be more easily cast in roles. And she did. And I think she feels like, and I think she's probably right, suffered from her new nose about not being cast. Yeah. The opposite happened of the intended effect where her, her roles dried up. Like she went from, I'm a successful movie star with my nose to changing her nose to not, you know,

to kind of falling out of limelight and not getting work like before. She says she regretted her nose job. Actually, two of them, she got two of them because she wasn't happy with the first one. And she, I don't know if she's ever toyed with the idea. I'm sure she has, but I don't, I didn't read it. But there's a trend among people who are dissatisfied with having gotten a nose job, who are going back to basically get what's called a reverse nose job, which is, as one, I think cosmetic surgeon put it, putting the bump back in. Yeah. And I don't think that's something that like a Jennifer Gray is considering anymore because she's kind of, you know, closed the loop on that. But I think it's a pretty cool thing that people are saying,

go back and give me, you know, like embracing themselves now. As far as Jennifer Gray goes, I mean, there's, she was the crush of a lot of dudes our age, thanks to dirty dancing and genie Bueller. And I remember when that happened, like she just, the new cycle wasn't as invasive back then and in a lot of ways. So I didn't, I think I didn't even know Jennifer Gray just kind of went away. And then when I saw pictures of yours, you know, when it, I finally saw a photo of her with a new nose, it's like, Oh my God, is that even Jennifer Gray? Right. Because it was just such a signature look for her. And anyway, I loved genie Bueller is what I'm saying. It is startling the difference that a nose job can make. Like if you look at, and there is a lot of

before and after pictures on the internet of rhinoplasty, it's incredible, the difference that it makes, that the effect that just slight changes to the nose have on the entire look, the entire face of the person, that it very frequently makes them look like an entirely different person. Jennifer Gray is definitely one of those people. She looks just like, she looks like a different person. And not like she looks like a different person because she had a bunch of work done. She looks like a different person because she has a different nose now. And yeah, I think it was just so characteristic of her. She's not the only one who regretted getting a nose job famous person. I believe Bella Hadid did as well. I read that she was quoted

as saying that she wishes she kept the nose of her ancestors because she thinks she probably would have grown into it or grown to like it. Right. And so, I mean, at least there's options of going back and getting it redone the way it was before, but it definitely gives you pause to say like, okay, if you're going to do this, ask yourself, is somebody pressuring you to do this? Are you old enough to really make a decision like this? Has your nose grown? Are you old enough so that your nose has taken what's probably going to be its final shape? Yeah, for your face. There's a lot of questions for you to really consider. And if you go to a decent plastic surgeon, they should be helping you consider these questions. And then lastly, you got anything else?

Well, I do think we should mentor Iranian women because you kind of tease that out of the beginning. They have some of the highest rates of rhinoplasty in the world at 180 cases per every 100,000 people. I don't know if that's, this is people and not women, but either way, a very high rate. And, you know, there was an article in the LA Times and a woman from Tehran said, women do nose jobs in Iran because it's the only part of their body they can show in society. We have to wear a scarf over our hair so we get a nose job to make ourselves beautiful. And it starts in high school. Right. And, but apparently even there, there were much more severe rhinoplasty to perform in Iran in previous generations, much more dramatic reshapings.

And now there are more subtle changes that still embrace the ethnic look of Iranian and Persian women. And that seems to be the trend. It's sort of happening everywhere. Yeah. So what I was hoping to bring up at least to finish on is that because of all those questions that you need to ask yourself, like there's a lot of concern about how young should you be before you start thinking about getting a nose job or any kind of plastic surgery. And there's apparently a big, big problem on TikTok where there's plastic surgery targeting, like ads for plastic surgeons targeting users as young as 14. I think Business Insider set up like a fake profile and set their age to 14 and they scrolled for eight minutes before they

started getting plastic surgery videos served to them. And I guess TikTok banned outright plastic surgeon ads, but the plastic surgeons have figured out like, okay, well, I'll just make a video talking about how great plastic surgery is. And it's all basically the same. So it's a, it's a huge problem. And you can understand, like if you're 14 years old, that's probably not a good time for you to be thinking solo about whether you want a nose job or something like that, you know? Yeah. I mean, it's certainly a lot to weigh. For sure. Without the help of a social media giant pushing you one way or another, you know? That's right. Well, Chuck said that's right. And he already said he doesn't have anything else. So

if you want to know more about rhinoplasty, go read up on it, especially if you're considering getting it yourself. Inform yourself. And since I said that, it's time for Listener Mail. That's right. The Listener Mail we teased. And I think we should, do you have it pulled up? We should both kind of go through these. Okay. Yeah. Since it's a long win, we got a lot of great grilled cheese tips from listeners. And the first one we got was from Pablo Quintana, who said, when I do grill cheeses, I make them using manchego cheese or Oaxacan cheese grilled olive oil, tomato with butter on rye or sourdough paired with either tomato soup, clam chowder. Oh my God. Lentil soup or even chili, depending on

the occasion. Pablo, you're doing it right. Yeah. Pablo knows what he's doing. So after Pablo, we have Robin Russo, who labels themselves a Wisconsin cheese lover. They say, try spreading pure maple syrup on the bread and use Colby cheese. Colby melts very evenly, so it's perfect. The syrup gives a nice sweetness balanced by the salt and the cheese. And then as an aside, just to show off, also, if you ever eat fresh, squeaky cheese curds, get them in cocktail shrimp sauce first. It's so good, you'll thank me later. So there's two tips from Robin Russo. That sounds really good. That syrup, that sounds like something you could cut into quarters and serve at a cocktail party. Yeah. It sounds so delicious. Canapes.

Erica Tyler says, use brioche bread if you're living your best life, but normal bread will also work. Cover the outside with butter, then dip that buttered side in Parmesan. Nice. The cheese inside is Gouda or Munster. Both are delicious. I learned this method from that dude can cook on YouTube. Hats off to both. Ruth Ann L says, make your grilled cheese, but add Dijon mustard to the inside. Takes it to an awesome level of umptiousness. Yeah, I'm not into the mustard, but I bet mustard lovers would love that. For sure. Barrett Swedman says, press a couple of garlic cloves into a small bowl of cream cheese and mix. There you go. Use that as your cheese filler in a grilled cheese and you, my friends, have entered flavor country. You can think Allison,

who is Baird's wife, who introduced Baird to the podcast and the recipe. That sounds really, really awesome. I love cream cheese. It does and it ties into what a couple of other people have said and including Virginia Bestwick of Alberta, Canada. She says, I like my grilled cheese with old cheddar and garlic borson. And I think garlic borson is like a, it's like a cream cheese spread with garlic in it. So that's kind of like Allison's doing the deconstructed version. This makes me so hungry. Mike Franks says this, mayo on one side, butter on the other. Cream cheese spread, or better yet, borson. Is it borsin or borson? All right. Creamy and tangy without throwing off the bread, the bread cheese ratio. Boom,

there you have it. Good old grilled cheese. I also love trough TRUFF hot sauce on the grilled cheese. It's a unique hot sauce made with truffles and truffle oil, although we know that synthetic Mike feels into our episode on truffles. He said it's pretty niche, but really great on grilled cheese. Thanks for that, Mike. And here's one from Jesse Lee of Taos, New Mexico, who over the deafening hum said, one of my favorite things to dip a grilled cheese in is salsa. Try it out with your next one and thank me later. Nice, simple, simple, but awesome. I bet that's really good. This is a professional chef, and I'm going to go to this restaurant when I go to Savannah. The Belle Weather House in Savannah, Georgia, and chef Ryan White Buck explains why mayo is better.

This is a little bit of a J. Kinchi Lopez alt food science explanation, which I always love. Butter contains dissolved milk solids that when melted separate and can sogg up a slice of bread. Mayo, however, is oil emulsified with a very small amount of egg yolk, mustard and vinegar. Using mayo for grilled cheese will crisp the bread without sogging it up, and the mustard and vinegar will season the sandwich with spicy and tart elements. These flavors paired with the hints of sweet from the bread and the unctuous savory quality of cheese paint a complete taste profile for the palate in a fashion similar to how complimentary colors work. Very nice. The more you know. All right, go to the Belle Weather House in Savannah.

Yeah, first check out the food. And then the last one is from Kayla Rower, and she does not have a tip, but she has a recollection from playing the Sims. She said, starting in early 2008, the Sims added a secret grilled cheese aspiration to their little virtual lives. If you played the Sims, you could create a secondary aspiration in life, which made your Sim obsess over grilled cheese. If they cooked, they cooked that. If they painted, they painted grilled cheese. And in their backlog of precious memories, you'd see where they finally remembered a time where they ate grilled cheese. And the comment underneath would read, grilled cheese, my favorite. Too funny. Agreed, Kayla. That is too funny. I'm pretty interesting. I never

knew that. And she actually said she's not sure if it's related to that 2007 craft money. Remember craft spent like a billion plus on grilled cheeses? Yeah, the astute listener, by the way, unless Jerry cuts it out, will literally hear my stomach growl right then during that flight. Jerry, I hope you don't cut that out. Oh, that's it. If you want to be like Kayla, Ryan, Jesse, Mike, Virginia, Baird, Ruthanne, Erica, Robin, and Pablo, and write to us with whatever you have to say, you can send it via email to stuffpodcast.iheartradio.com. Stuff you should know is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts, my heart radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite

shows. Hey, I'm Lance Bass, host of the new iHeart podcast, Frosted Tips with Lance Bass. Do you ever think to yourself, what advice would Lance Bass and my favorite boy bands give me in this situation? If you do, you've come to the right place because I'm here to help and a different hot, sexy teen crush boy bander each week to guide you through life. Tell everybody, everybody about my new podcast and make sure to listen so we'll never ever have to say bye bye bye. Listen to Frosted Tips with Lance Bass on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to podcasts. I'm Munga Chauticular and it turns out astrology is way more widespread than any of us want to believe. You can find it in Major League Baseball, international banks, K-pop groups, even

the White House. But just when I thought I had a handle on this subject, something completely unbelievable happened to me and my whole view on astrology changed. Whether you're a skeptic or a believer, give me a few minutes because I think your ideas are about to change too. Listen to Skyline Drive on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.