Stuff You Should Know - Selects: Body Language!

Episode Date: August 17, 2024

Body language is how you communicate without words. Some say it bears more impact in communication than speaking words. In this classic episode, learn about how you say what you say could mean more than you think.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The summer of sports is on and I'm feeling the competitive spirit. Luckily, I have Monopoly Go. Over 150 million have downloaded it to play with other tycoons to expand their empire and their riches. And my favorite part is playing with my friends. It's such a rush to win special rewards with a buddy and a partner event. Or I can go after their fortunes to be a top tycoon. I can smash their landmarks, pull bank heists, or charge them rent like in classic Monopoly. So make your move and download Monopoly Go, now free on the App Store and Google Play. For so many people living with an autoimmune condition like myasthenia gravis or chronic inflammatory demyelinating polyneuropathy, the emotional toll can be as real as the physical

symptoms. That's why, in an all-new season of Untold Stories, Life with a Severe Auto-Immune Condition from Ruby Studio and Argenics, host Martin Hackett gets to the heart of the emotional journey for individuals living with these conditions. To find community and inspiration on your journey, listen now on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Howdy, everybody. It's January 7, 2016. No, it's January 7th, 2016.

No, it's not. But in my world, it is. It's actually 2024. But we're going to go back in time to January 2016 to listen to the episode on body language. And I said it like that because for some reason it has an exclamation point in the end. So please enjoy Body Language. Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio. Hey and welcome to the podcast.

I'm Josh Clark. There's Charles W. Chuck Bryant. Jerry's in the house. We're back to basics. Yeah. We're doing a social sciences episode. Oh man. I mean we're all right, man. We get to tear it apart. You believe in body language?

Sure. Watch this. You're winking and shouldering and nodding your head and you're loosening up and you're doing some weird biting thing. What did I say? You said I'm feeling silly. That's exactly what I was saying. How about that?

Yeah, it said I've had a diet Mountain Dew and I'm pepped up. Oh, okay. That's what I was saying. I missed the... No, I'm crashing. And he's down. You doing good? Yeah. I'm hanging on by a thread. Are he's down. You doing good? Yeah.

I'm hanging on by a thread. Are you? Sure. We can make it through this, man. You can do this in your sleep. Okay. Don't go to sleep. Okay.

It'll be so boring. You could theoretically do this in your sleep. Yeah. Okay. I gotcha. Yeah. So body language, it is a thing. Yeah.

When I was researching, I was like, this is junk science. There's no way this is real. And I could not find anything that just said, yes, body language is obviously junk science. Apparently, it's very well established and well-reputed. I understand, yes, there is such a thing as body language. And it's rooted in evolution. It's basically evidence of evolution

from an animalian ancestor. Yeah. But the idea that like you can read somebody, especially like that facial coding system, it just struck me as really like junky. Yeah. Well, we did, I could have sworn we had done this one when I suggested it. We did micro expressions. Yeah.

We did that in I think 2009. And I don't remember how I weighed in on it back then, so I'm just going to start anew. Yes. It may be a different take, I have no idea. People grow and change, their opinions evolve, you know? Well, here's what I think. Of course, spotty language is real, and it can tell you a lot.

Can tell you a lot. But it can also be misdirected very easily. Sure. And, I mean, we'll get to it, but I found some stuff from a former FBI guy even that doesn't say it's junk science, but he's like, you can fool somebody too. If you're a sociopath, you know this about body language and micro-expressions. Yeah, yeah. Apparently it's a myth that...

That's how I get by. Apparently it's a myth that not having eye contact means deception. While it can, his whole point is they've done studies over the years and habitual liars and anti-socials and psychopaths have the most eye contact, apparently. Probably because there's that myth. Yeah, exactly. So it's like a self-fulfilling myth. Yeah, Ted Bundy was probably like, I gotta make great eye contact with everyone I speak with.

I'm looking into your soul. Otherwise the jig will be up. Right. And I won't get to kill people any longer. My favorite thing. Right. And then, so yeah, there's a lot of myth. There's that one myth also where like,

you look up into the right or up into the left if you're lying or recalling. Yeah. I can't remember. We debunked that in something here or there a while back. Yeah, I think body language is fun to talk about and study, but when you're convicting someone as a jury based on micro-expressions. Yes, there's where the junk science comes in for me. It gets a little dangerous. And not just with body language too. We need to do a whole episode on forensics in general and just how junky the science

that most of it is based on. It's basically the only thing that's less standing is DNA and even that can be wildly misinterpreted and we're using this to like execute people. And there's a big problem with it. So I think we've arrived at my problem with it. It's junk science when you apply it for like law enforcement. Yeah, as fact. Yeah.

Agreed. OK. So. Can we be done? This is the other thing that got me too. Albert Mehrabian. I totally nailed that guy's name. I bet the H is silent. Mehrabian? Mehrabian? I bet it's just Mehrabian, not Mehrabian. Anyway, Dr. Mehrabian, back in 1981,

said that in the first four minutes of meeting someone, our facial expressions account for 65% of the impression we make. 7% of that impression comes from our actual words, while the remainder of the information comes from our tone of voice. That, I think, is what made me think like, no, this is all BS. Yeah, because it sounds, who can say that? You can't. Maybe in 1981 you could get away with that crap. Not in 2015.

No, 16. Yeah. You can't. Maybe in 1981 you could get away with that crap. Not in 2015. No, 16. Yeah. You lived in the past. Yeah, Moravian was probably one of the first researchers to study this in the 1940s out of UCLA. And I agree. You can't just break down percentages. I think what he really means to say, if I may speak for him, Yes. is facial expressions and tone of voice account for a lot of what you're getting out of a person. And I don't think anyone would disagree with that. And words account maybe for even less than those two things combined.

I think people would agree with that too. I think it's when you quantify it. Yeah, sure. Seven percent, he just said that just because it sounds authoritative. Yeah, but he like he fed it into the percentage three maker of three thousand and it spit it out. Yeah But that is not to miss the point that communicating Inadvertently is something that we all do. Through body language. Sure. Yeah, there was a great quote I ran across

on a Psychology Today post. The quote comes from a 16th century Scottish mathematician named John Napier, and he said, "'If language was given to men to conceal their...' Oh, you found it too, huh? Yeah, it's a good one. It's about as good a quote of body language as you can come up with.

You do it, Chuck. No, you, you were already halfway through. You do better 16th century Scottish mathematicians than me. No way, I'm not doing it. Do Sean Connery reading this? Oh man. If language was given to men to conceal their thoughts, then gesture's purpose was to disclose them.

That's perfect. Not bad. That was a dead on John Napier. It's not as good as my Kristoff Waltz. Yeah. So Napier makes a pretty good point. Like, yeah, you can, language has all sorts of structure and can be mastered.

Body language is, much of it is just inadvertent and we don't even realize necessarily when you're picking up on it. You just get this weird gut feeling that, no, I don't trust this car salesman or I want to give this car salesman all of my money, depending on the body language. Yeah, and, um, it's pretty clear that this started a long time ago, like, it predates language. Right.

Because, who wrote this, by the way? This is a Patrick Keiger joint. Oh, Keiger? Yeah. Uh, Keiger says, um, rightfully, that in Tuk-Tuk's age, you didn't have a lot of time to suss things out, like up close and personal. Once you got close enough within striking distance.

You can be stricken. Yeah, you might already have that club upside your head, or that rock in your face. So you needed to judge someone's body language as they approach you to survive. Yes. So, body language makes sense. And you would also presuppose that since we are descended from animals and animals clearly do engage in body language, that body language would be older than language. Although this article

says that language didn't exist until about 100,000 years ago, that's under dispute now. Oh, really? Possibly as much as a million years ago, people were using some sort of verbal communication. Oh, wow. Yeah. And Neanderthals apparently also had language probably. Interesting. It is pretty interesting. I'd like to do one on animal

communication. Have we not? I think we touched on it here and there, but I know there's a lot of things like cats purring and tails wagging on dogs that are misinterpreted. Yeah. Or like a wolf growling. I think that means come pet me. You know, it's often misinterpreted as a warning. Come take this steak out of my mouth, if you dare. Should we take a break? Sure. All right, let's take a quick one and we're going to get back and explain a little bit more about what one researcher calls thin slices of experience. The summer of sports is on and I'm feeling the competitive spirit.

Luckily, I have Monopoly Go. Over 150 million have downloaded it to play with other tycoons to expand their empire and their riches. And my favorite part is playing with my friends. It's such a rush to win special rewards with a buddy and a partner event. Or I can go after their fortunes to be a top tycoon. I can smash their landmarks, pull bank heists, or charge them rent like in classic Monopoly. So make your move and download Monopoly Go. Now free on the App Store and Google Play.

For so many people living with an autoimmune condition, the emotional toll is as real as the physical symptoms. Starting this May, join host, Martine Hackett, for season three of Untold Stories, Life with a Severe Autoimmune Condition, a Ruby Studio production, and partnership with Argenics. From myasthenia gravis, or MG, to chronic inflammatory demyelinating polyneuropathy, also known as CIDP, Untold Stories highlights

the realities of navigating life with these conditions from challenges to triumphs. This season, Martina and her guests discuss the range of emotions that accompany each stage of the journey. Whether it's the anxiety of misdiagnosis or the relief of finding support and community, nothing is off limits. And while each story is unique, the hope they inspire is shared by all. Listen to Untold Stories, Life with a Severe Autoimmune Condition on the iHeart

radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Katie Lowe's and I'm Guillermo Diaz. And now we're back with another season of our podcast, Unpacking the Toolbox, where Guillermo and I will be rewatching the show to officially unpack season three of Scandal. Unpredictable. You don't see it coming. It's a wild, wild ride.

The twists and turns in season three mesmerizing, but also we get to hang out with all of our old Scandal friends like Bellamy Young, Scott Foley, Tony Goldwyn, Debbie Allen, Kerry Washington, so many people! And yes, Katie and I's famous teeth pulling scene that kicks off a romance. Well suit up gladiators, grab your big ol' glass of wine and prepare yourselves for even more behind the scenes. Listen to Unpacking the Toolbox on the iHeartRadioApp Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. Meet the real woman behind the tabloid headlines in a personal podcast that delves into the

life of the notorious Tori Spelling, as she takes us through the ups and downs of her sometimes glamorous, sometimes chaotic life and marriage. I don't think he knew how big it would be, how big the life I was given and live is. I think he was like, oh yeah, things come and go, but with me it never came and went. Is she Donna Martin, or a down-and-out divorcee? Is she living in Beverly Hills or a trailer park? In a town where the lines are blurred, Tori is finally going to clear the air

in the podcast Misspelling. When a woman has nothing to lose, she has everything to gain. I just filed for divorce. Whoa, I said the words that I've said like in my head for like 16 years. Wild. Listen to Misspelling on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So, Josh, I said something about thin slices of experience and I'm not talking about the The roast beef line at the buffet

Which is great thin slices. Well, those are the carving station. Yeah. Yeah, you ever work a carving station Have I ever worked one? Yeah, I've hung around one long enough that I basically should have been paid, but I was just eating What do you wait for the next? Roast to come out so you can get the end cut. I know I've never been into end cuts whether it be a loaf of bread or Cut a meat. Oh really like a prime rib end cut. Yeah, no Daddy, that's good. Isn't it all salt? Maybe that's why I love it. You like the salt, huh? Oh, yeah. Yeah, I'm...

To me, it's like the closer you get to the middle, the juicier it... I like stuff lower cooked. Well, that's true, too. Yeah. And a little rarer in the middle, obviously. Right. Yeah. So I think that's my problem with the end of anything.

It's undercooked or overcooked. You know, I have a theory about why people don't like to eat the crust. Why? Because it's called crust. And that might be part of it. If like a hundred years ago they named it like the- The butterfly. Yeah, the butterfly slice.

People would have been like fighting for it. Like the butterfly slice is delicious. Yeah. Have you ever heard George Carlin's little take on that end slice that everybody always goes past? They're like, I'm not gonna eat that. That's the poison piece of bread. I'll leave that for my family to eat. Wait, I guess the end piece isn't called the crust though, is it? The crust is

what's around. But it's all crust. That's the problem with it. Oh, okay. You know what I mean? Sure. It's nothing but crust. Yeah. Not butt crust. It's nothing but crust. I think the other weird... man, this is a... Jerry, you're so juvenile. This is a strange tangent. Um... I think the other problem with the bread end pieces is that eating one end piece with a regular slice is a little weird. Oh, it's... yeah.

But getting that other slice off the tail end is not very feasible or efficient. No. To make two crust pieces. No, but that frequently is the last sandwich that's made out of the loaf, because that one end piece has been hanging around, and then it finally works its way to its mate. And then you stick some turkey in it and weep quietly while you eat your terrible sandwich. Man. Thin slices.

Where were we? Thin slices? Of experience. Man. Thin slices. Where were we? Thin slices? Of experience. Yes, this is a professor of psychology named Nalini Mbadi. From Tufts University. Shout out to my buddy Robert Shahadeh from high school.

He works at Tufts. Speaking of, you know there's a kid with like a really huge hit single out right now from your high school Really? I think your high school is shown in the music video. It's watch me whip Watch me. Nay nay. It's read-in. Yeah weird. Yeah Cilento so I'm no longer the most famous person no high school You were until about six months ago and I will be again in another six months. Maybe. It's a pretty, pretty catchy single.

It's a hot, hot, hot track. No, we actually, we had several professional athletes that are much more popular than me. Who? We had a professional punter. Actually, I may be more popular. I think you told me that before. Yeah, we've had a few.

There's a baseball player. We had a punter. Travis Tritt went to my high school. Shut up. Really? No. See, that's big time. Yeah.

Yeah, Travis Tritt was big. Yeah, I don't have any superstars. Luke Bryan went to Ume's high school. Man, you guys, where'd you go, Beverly Hills 90210? Yeah, with Shannon Doherty. Oh boy, here we go again. Thin Slices from Tufts University. Well let's talk about the thin slices thing, man. You said earlier that it would be very

advantageous, evolutionarily speaking, to be able to read maybe the rough intentions of some other hunter-gatherer 100,000 years ago. Read the room. Like from a distance before they could hit you with a rock, right? If that was their intent. Sure. Well, just as much, you want to be able to walk

through the world and be threatened by stuff and to make snap judgments about it based on things like body language. Yeah. Same thing, and this is what the thin slices has to do with. Yeah, they're just those first few seconds when you meet somebody, and I mean, some people may just call it a gut instinct about somebody,

but what you're probably doing is reading body language. Right. That's what that gut instinct is. Yes. And those things are processed and generated in I think the limbic system, where emotions and feelings are processed in the brain. Yeah, limbic system from what I understand

That's right, which um She thinks and I agree with her that it might explain why we have such Such a like a powerful gut instinct about some people when we first meet them because it's tied to emotion Yeah, and the whole point is is this guy will Cut your throat if you turn your back on him. Probably not, but in our modern context, it's this guy will inflate the price of the car

you wanna buy if you're not careful. It's totally different things, but it's based on the same principle. It's all based on body language, and we're able to make snap judgments that we can't even stop and really analyze what it was that person did or what it was about them. We just know that we trust them or don't,

or we feel comfortable around them or not, or we fear them or we don't. Based on this body language and what this professor is saying is we have a very ancient part of our brain that is responsible for processing this stuff. Yeah, and I think, just for me personally, I think if you try to focus on that too much, then you're not doing yourselves any favors. Like, let it be innate. Well, yeah, there's some people who coach this kind of stuff that apparently say, no,

do all sorts of crazy, weird stuff stuff which we'll talk about later. Yeah agreed Uh, but what you're looking at, um are there's three different categories, I guess, um innate learned and some that are both hybrid, uh Expressions and postures and things that you do and like for instance you're born with like you can blush That's an innate thing you blush you don't mean to blush especially when somebody's staring at your cheek. Yeah, I don't think you can make yourself blush watch this so Just think about hot things in your mouth tighten up your core So that's the innate side learned would be things like

Hanging someone a bird Yeah out the car window window because everyone knows what that means. Depending on where you are. And you've learned it. Yeah, that's not something you're born doing. Like, yeah, I got your diaper right here. Come change it.

Although a photo of a baby accidentally shooting a bird is one of the great things. Sure. Can we agree? But it's accidental. There's no meaning attached to it. That's what you think. And then there's hybrid gestures that are like shrugging is a really good example.

It's something you naturally shrug, right? Right. But it's not contextual until you learn what to attach it to. Like, I don't know. Sure. You're not born being like, I don't know. Right, or you cry, but you've also learned that crying can get you something maybe.

Like, a cry to get out of a traffic ticket or something. Or to gain sympathy. It can chase your parents off to the bar. Crying? Yeah, one of those. And then Chuck, I said something about how you know flipping somebody bird everybody knows what that means It does depend on where you are sure because there is especially with learned So I think innate body language is virtually universal stuff that you couldn't possibly control like I can't remember why I read it

But if you take a bite of something putrid and you make that horrible, like disgusted face, like, oh my God, I'm about to vomit everywhere. Everybody who's watching you doesn't have to go, give me that, and then take a bite and taste it themselves. They can look at your face and be like, I'm not going anywhere near that piece of feces that guy just took a bite of. That's how we all learn not to eat feces.

Yeah, but there's also the human thing where you're like, oh, God, smell this. Right, that's the person who wants everyone else to suffer like they just did. But everybody else has just been communicated to by that innate face, that nasty face that you would make when you eat something disgusting. And again, that evolutionarily, that protects us in that respect. Yeah. The innate stuff. So that's universal. Sure. But it's the learned stuff that's culturally dependent.

Yeah, like for instance, they have a few examples in the article. Smiling in the US might mean, in the United States, might mean you're happy. Apparently in Asia, it might say, I agree with you. Those are right. It could also cover up embarrassment. If they're embarrassed for you or something, they might smile. Is that why everyone's always smiling at me?

They're embarrassed for me. What else? Eye contact varies from place to place. Here in the United States, someone might think you're listening and very keyed in to what you're saying. Or you're Ted Bundy. Or you're Ted Bundy. Or you're Ted Bundy. Or if you're in Africa, maybe,

it might be disrespectful to look someone right in the eye. Yeah, and I looked around to find out what part of Africa, because I hate to leave it like that, you know? Yeah, on this massive continent. Right. Do not look people in the eyes. Yeah, doubt it, that's true. I couldn't find any,

and everyone said some parts of Africa, everywhere I looked. No one specifically said in the Congo, it's considered impolite or aggressive or something like that to maintain eye contact. It's definitely in Japan, if you make eye contact with somebody, you are saying I'm your superior. So if you are socially or say business-wise

an inferior to somebody, you're averting your gaze and it's respectful. In the US, you shake hands and you make eye contact and you just, you know, climb to wrong right there. Unless you're Prince and then he's like, nobody can have eye contact with me. Is that for real? Cause he likes to do things

that just mess with people for fun. I think 90% of the stories you've heard about Prince are not true. What about him playing basketball? He's like a really good basketball player though, says Charlie Murphy. I believe in everything Charlie Murphy says. I found some more culturally bound stuff. What else? Thumbs up in New Zealand does not mean like right on. Does that mean like thumb up your butt? Pretty much. Really? Yeah, you don't want to do that. Similarly, when you make like the peace sign, as long as you're not showing the people in

the back of your hand. Sure, in England that's a thing. Yeah, and in Australia, and I believe New Zealand too. Like that movie Bad Taste, the cover of it, I think Peter Jackson's first or second movie. The cover of it's like an alien going like that and I'm like, what's two? Yeah, why is he showing me the number two? Then as I grew up, I learned to understand what that was.

What else you got? In some cultures, nodding means no. Like nodding yes actually means no, like in Greece and Bulgaria. Oh, wow. That could get you in trouble. Yeah, and in Mexico, Mexico, this is what I found, Mexico, Haiti, and Spain, it is perfectly normal to go pssst to a waiter, which I do.

I don't do it to waiters, but I'm a pssst kind of person. Oh really? That's how you call someone over and get their attention. You may also make kissing noises at them. Pssst, pssst, pssst, to a waiter? Yeah. Really? Yeah.

So I go to Mexico, I need my check, and I go, pssst, pssst, pssst. I'm kissing noises at them. To a waiter? Yeah. Really? Yeah. So I go to Mexico, I need my check, and I go. I guess according to this thing that I read, which seemed pretty legitimate. Interesting. Yeah. What was the website? I don't remember.

I'll definitely send it to you to post, but it was like a, it was researched material to be used by business people around the world. If it was a hoax, then they did a pretty good job fooling me. Gotcha. All right, well let's take another break and we'll come back and we'll talk about deciphering some of these nonverbal cues right after this. For so many people living with an autoimmune condition, the emotional toll is as real as the physical symptoms.

Starting this May, join host, Martín Hackett for Season 3 of Untold Stories, Life with a Severe Autoimmune Condition, a Ruby Studio production, and partnership with Arginics. From myasthenia gravis or MG to chronic inflammatory demyelinating polyneuropathy also known as CIDP, Untold Stories highlights the realities of navigating life with these conditions from challenges to triumphs. This season, Martina and her guests discuss the range of emotions that accompany each stage of the journey. Whether it's the anxiety of misdiagnosis or the relief of finding support in community, nothing is off limits.

And while each story is unique, the hope they inspire is shared by all. Listen to Untold Stories, Life with a Severe Autoimmune Condition, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Katie Lowe's and I'm Guillermo Diaz. And now we're back with another season of our podcast, unpacking the toolbox where Guillermo and I will be rewatching the show to officially unpack season three of scandal.

Unpredictable. You don't see it coming. It's a wild, wild ride. The twists and turns in season three mesmerizing, but also we get to hang out with all of our old scandal friends like Bellamy Young, Scott Foley, Tony Goldwyn, Debbie Allen, Kerry Washington, so many people, even more shocking assassinations from Papa and Mama Pope, and yes, Katie and I's famous teeth pulling scene that kicks off a romance, and it was peak TV. This is new scandal content for your eyes, for your ears,

for your hearts, for your minds. Well, suit up, gladiators. Grab your big old glass of wine and prepare yourselves for even more behind the scenes. Listen to Unpacking the Toolbox on the iHeart Radio app Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. Meet the real woman behind the tabloid headlines in a personal podcast that delves into the life of the notorious Tori Spelling as she takes us through the ups and downs of her sometimes glamorous, sometimes chaotic life and marriage.

I don't think he knew how big it would be, how big the life I was given and live is. I think he was like, oh yeah, things come and go, but with me it never came and went. Is she Donna Martin or a down and out divorcee? Is she living in Beverly Hills or a trailer park? In a town where the lines are blurred, Tori is finally going to clear the air in the podcast Misspelling. When a woman has nothing to lose, she has everything to gain. I just filed for divorce.

Whoa. I said the words that I've said like in my head for like 16 years. Wild. Listen to Misspelling on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to Cheaters and Backstabbers. I'm Shadi Diaz. And I'm Kate Robards. And we are New York City standup comedians and best friends. And we love a good cheating and backstabbing story. So this is a series where our guests reveal their most shocking cheating stories. Join us as we learn how to avoid getting our hearts broken or our backs slashed. Listen to cheaters and backstabbers on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. [♪ Music Playing. Stuck in Shit, No. All right, so language is a very precise thing, or it should be, or can be.

Body language, you would think, is just all over the map, but there are actually some categories that some brilliant social scientists have come up with. Yeah. And I think they make sense. Yeah. And I think they make sense. Yeah, basically they've broken it down into five categories or five types of non-verbal communication and body language. Yeah. There's emblems.

It's like hanging a bird. Yeah, or shaking your fist or something like that. Something that is very symbolic of something else that you can also put into words, right? Who shakes a fist at someone? Some people do. Okay. of something else that you can also put into words, right? Who shakes a fist at someone? Some people do. Okay. It's a good, it's a good. Yeah?

Yeah. Cause it's saying like- Throw up that middle finger and then you're cooking with gas. That's very aggressive. Okay. That's very aggressive. I'm just kidding. I never flick someone a bird.

Oh really? Oh yeah. Like in a car or something? No way. Yeah, apparently it's really dangerous. Yeah, and that's yeah, that's why I do it I think it's just I mean I'll get mad and say things but I would never I don't know who that person is Yeah, could be a psycho Yeah, then you're getting chased or you're getting shot at by someone because you know like you just had to shoot a bird Yeah, we talked about this in the road rage episode. Yeah. Yeah, I wouldn't hang people the bird. That's not smart by the way. I want to update on that

I've been improving more and more behaviorally. Oh, yeah, even since the road rage episode and I was already on the right path then So you're doing good behind the wheelies. Are you doing so good? I feel like I'm about the same Well, you've always been that way. I get I get mad. One time you rode with me, I think it was the first time you ever rode with me, and I started yelling at somebody, you're like, really? You seem genuinely surprised. And I remember thinking like,

this is abnormal. Well, that was probably cause you were like, sending an email with your left hand and driving with your knee and had a coffee and the other. I've gotten so much better. That's good. It's because you value your life. I do.

That's great. Emblems, after emblems, illustrators, which like shaking your head as far as emphasis, to emphasize something you're saying. Right. Like no, sure. You can just say no, but the person's like, it doesn't really mean that until you shake your head while you say no. And especially if you do it slowly. Yeah. That you're really saying like, do not ask me again. Yeah. Boy,

I never thought about that. The slow one really does mean something different. It does. It adds, it bulks it up. You know? Um know? Regulators, I think this is in a conversation to let someone else know that maybe, alright, it's time for you to talk now, or it's time for me to talk. Right, or it's time for us to stop talking, like looking at your watch. Just getting up and walking away.

That's, yeah. That's body language. Yeah, I guess it is. It definitely speaks volumes. There's adap language. Yeah I guess it is. It definitely speaks volumes. There's adapters which I guess have to do with the person listening or I guess anybody either one making themselves more comfortable. Like you know when you're in a conversation with somebody and they just kind of shift in their seat. Like settle in. Yeah now they could be doing it differently where they're fidgeting, they're shifting in their seat uncomfortably like they can't get comfortable. That's something totally different than somebody who's just like settling in, just making themselves more comfortable.

Right, or I guess if you like, if you're having a conversation and someone just sits up on the edge of their seat that kind of says we're done here. Sure. Like I'm about to get up. Yeah. So please say something in closure. Yeah, especially if you sigh while you do that too, you know? Yeah. And then there's affect displays and these are the ones that most people think of when they think of body language.

These are the ones that, you know, like where you make that face when you eat something putrid or your shoulders go up around your ears when you're scared all of a sudden. Yeah, if you're mad, it's emotional based. Yeah, emotion based? Yeah, like your eyebrows furrow. Right. There's just so much body language. I came across this one guy from 1978, an M. Argyle. No idea what the M stands for.

But in 1978, Professor M. Argyle, a researcher of body language, said that there's probably something like 700,000 words in the body language Human body language. I have no idea how he or she came up with that. That seems high, but it's fun to throw out there junk science 1978 Yeah, you could say anything back then As far as like social psychology. Yeah.

Misinterpreting body language is, we talked a little bit about that. That is very easy to do. They have one little anecdotal story about a woman who was a consultant that, I think she was pitching in to CEO of a big company. And the guy just sat there basically with his arms crossed and didn't emote. And at the end was just like, thank you. And she thought, well, I've blown this one. And turns out that is just the way that guy is.

He loved the presentation. And if he hadn't have liked it, he just would have left is what the partner said, I think. So you can easily misinterpret body language. I don't know if it's, I guess it could be dangerous. I think. Yeah. So you can easily misinterpret body language. I don't know if it's, I guess it could be dangerous. And that, well, I mean that's part of the problem. It can be dangerous, especially when you apply it to law enforcement. Like Paul Ekman, we talked about him heavily in the micro expressions episode because he basically studied micro expressions through facial movement, facial muscle movement, and figured out what each one meant and he came up with the facial action coding system the FACS

Which apparently the FBI and other law enforcement agencies use to tell whether you're lying or you're hiding something in an interrogation Misreading that that's dangerous. That's when it becomes dangerous for sure. Yeah, this dude I was talking about Joe Navarro who was a 25 year vet of the FBI Yeah He's written a lot about body language, right? And he's one of the ones that warns about the myths and misreading things but um His he wrote a whole article on shoulders and he said everyone's always talking about the face and facial expressions He thinks you can read a lot into the shoulders of a person

Yeah, whether it's slumping or bowing up or And then he actually talked to criminals over his entire career and said what do you look for in a victim? So if you're looking to not be victimized you might want to avoid these things Okay looking frail or weak or not athletic. Yeah, workout. Yeah, or just, you know, try and carry yourself like you're not frail or weak, you know? And I think that has a lot to do with the shoulders.

Situational awareness, which is a big one. Yeah. If you just look like you have your head in the clouds. That's one for me. You can be a target. Yeah. What you're in your head about something. Sure.

Yeah. And then the in your head about something. Sure. Yeah. And then the way someone swings their arms, like vigorously or real subdued. Not at all, like on that one episode of Cypher. Yeah, the Cypher. All the box. Yeah, that was, who was that, Raquel Welch? No, it was, well yeah, it ended up as Raquel Welch,

but it was Molly Shannon. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Welch, but it was Molly Shannon. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. She remembers she like swept. Yeah Elaine's desk is clean. Yeah, I love Molly Shannon. She's one of my favorites. Yeah, she's fantastic So what was yeah the arm swing and basically What these criminals would say to him over and over is you know, they're the silverbacks don't go after other silverbacks They go after the weak ones and they said it's the same with criminals So like keep those shoulders straight and I was like, what's a silverback? I forgot It sounds like a criminal corporate buzz speak. Yeah

Silverbacks, it's the local soccer team. How do you not know what that is? Is it? Sure. That's what I thought. Yeah. All right. What else we got? Oh, these people that try and coach you,

we were gonna mention them. Yeah, nut jobs. I don't think they're nut jobs. Dude, okay, the one person who emerged as a hero from this article says, be very careful in trying to pay attention to your body language and speak consciously through it because you're going to have massive problems. That's not what body language is intended for.

So the people who say, no, master your body language and use it to communicate, you're going to come off as a creep, an aggressive, weirdo, corporate creep, if you do that. Well, yeah, I mean, if you're making a presentation, it's hard enough to get the words right. So if you start thinking about every single movement you make and what that conveys, I agree, I don't think you're doing yourself any favors. Or if you go to, again, a car sales, a car lot, right?

And you're like, I'm going to make sure I look very defensive and aggressive. So I'm going to go rigid and my shoulders are going to go up. The car salesman is going to be like, that guy's walking like a robot. I'm going to take him for a ride. You could conceivably speak through your body language more. I don't dispute that. You can become more aware of through your body language more. I don't dispute that. Right. You can become more aware of your natural body language too.

I don't dispute that either. But when you focus on it and use it as a technique to manipulate other people, Yeah. I have issues with that. Well, here was one idea I didn't think was terrible. Like, if you're, if you do a lot of public speaking, then maybe watching yourself with the sound off. Sure.

I didn't disagree with that one either. That's not a terrible idea, I think. Yeah. As a matter of fact, I was like, maybe I should try that. No, don't do that. The other technique that was brought up was called mirroring. That means, and this just sounds crazy to me, this is when you actually try and mimic the person you're talking to, mimic their body language and expressions to, I guess,

to make them feel more comfortable to you. the person you're talking to mimic their body language and expressions to, I guess, to... Make them feel more comfortable to you. People are attracted to themselves as the basis of it. Oh, okay. So when you mimic them, they feel more relaxed around you. They're like, I really like that person. I like the cut of their jib. I don't know. I can't put my finger on it. But they're actually mimicking your own body language. If you're leaning against the wall, they're going to lean against the wall too. That's disconcerting.

It is. That's nuts. You shouldn't do that to people. That's manipulative and weird. And just be yourself. How about that? Yeah, I think this quote sums it up. I'm trying to learn, I'm sorry, trying to use body language by reading a body language dictionary is like trying to speak French by reading a French dictionary. See, you can list off all the nonverbal cues in the world, but if you try and learn the body language, quote unquote, because of that, then you're just gonna end up confused

or you're gonna miss something you actually said. Yeah, and plus also context is huge too. Like if you're just watching somebody's body language, like a hawk in a conversation, you don't necessarily know that person's baseline. So what is, by definition, in this body language dictionary, a red flag, doesn't necessarily mean it's a red flag with that person.

You know, like if they're yawning, are they bored or are they nervous? You gotta have context. And you can't just read people like that, it's stupid. Go with your gut. Sure. But I don't think you should actively try to read it. If you want to, go ahead.

I don't care. Yeah. I'm not going to. I did read an article with one woman who was an expert supposedly and she did talk a lot about the baseline. She's like, that's the most important thing because you gotta know how someone

normally is, are they twitchy? Then if they're twitching in conversation, that's normal for them. Right, it doesn't mean that you can't trust what they're saying right then, it just means that they're a little awkward. Yeah. Like me. You're not awkward.

You got anything else? Nope. Friends, that is body language, and if you want to know more about it, you can type these words body language into the search bar at howstuffworks.com. And since I said friends, it's time for listener mail. This is from, this is a question actually I said we'd answer on the air. Hey guys, I've been listening for quite a few years, and you've seen me through a lot of years of growth out of high school and into my own as an adult.

Nice. I have a question that's been a challenge for me recently. I'm studying permaculture quite intensively, and parts of the study are pretty depressing, like climate change, species lost, and unfair trade. I try to reflect positives only to my clients who are

trying to grow their own food, because I'd rather encourage them to sustain themselves physically and emotionally than feel guilted or trapped into changing a lifestyle. I realize that having the opportunity and time to focus on ethical choices is a luxury and want to avoid shaming people. I think this approach is good for my own well-being because tackling issues bigger than myself seems more harmful than productive, But like you, part of my job is education. So the question is, how do you guys deal with darker topics that you cover? I really appreciate the way you do it and would like some insight and advice. How you prevent these topics from weighing too heavily on you and still live a life of enjoyment, yet conveying topics honestly.

And that is from Annalise in Australia. Nice. Eww. I think my answer is like when we cover something like dementia or HIV like we recently did, we're always going to have humor in there, respectfully and in the right ways. Because that's what we do. Plus also, when we're getting this stuff across, it's not like we're causing dementia. We're just saying, here's all the information

that we found on this. Here's everything you need to know about dementia. And I think the thing that allows us to go from a lighthearted topic to a very dark topic to whatever, is that we're putting it out there as objectively as possible or as unbiased as possible. Trying to. We're not passing much judgment on it, depending on the topic, but for the most part we don't really pass too much judgment on it.

Yeah. I think that allows us to talk about anything. Yeah, and as far as taking it home, if we do something that's a big bummer that it really impacts me, it'll bum me out for sure. But just like anything else, I think knowledge is key to, the more you know about something, the less scared you might be of it.

Yeah. How's that? You just go work it out, you know? Good answer. Yeah, that's a great answer, Chuck. You too. If you want to get in touch with Chuck or me or Jerry or anybody who we could conceivably pass a message along to, right?

Yeah. You can send us an email to stuffpodcast.howstuffworks.com and as always, join us at our home on the web, stuffyoushouldknow.com. Stuff You Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts, myHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. For so many people living with an autoimmune condition like myasthenia gravis or chronic inflammatory demyelinating polyneuropathy, the emotional toll can be as real as the physical

symptoms. That's why in an all new season of Untold Stories, Life with a Severe Autoimmune Condition from Ruby Studio and Argenics, host Martine Hackett gets to the heart of the emotional journey for individuals living with these conditions. To find community and inspiration on your journey, listen now on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Katie Lowe's. And I'm Guillermo Diaz.

And we're the hosts of Unpacking the Toolbox, the Scandal Rewatch podcast where we're talking about all the best moments of the show. Mesmerizing. But also we get to hang out with all of our old scandal friends like Bellamy Young, Scott Foley, Tony Goldwyn, Debbie Allen, Kerry Washington. Well, suit up, gladiators. Grab your big old glass of wine and prepare yourselves

for even more behind the scenes stories with Unpacking the Toolbox. Listen to Unpacking the Toolbox on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts. Or wherever you get your podcasts. the tool box on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Meet the real woman behind the tabloid headlines in a personal podcast that delves into the life of the notorious Tori Spelling as she takes us through the ups and downs of her sometimes glamorous, sometimes chaotic life and marriage. I just filed for divorce. Whoa, I said the words that I've said like in my head

for like 16 years. Wild. Listen to Miss Spelling on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.