Stuff You Should Know - Selects: Josh and Chuck's List of Horror Movies that Changed the Genre

Episode Date: October 8, 2022

Once in a while a movie comes along that's so forward-thinking it changes the way that horror is done. A new subgenre is spawned, new tropes are established, and audiences are more terrified than ever. Hear about these pivotal works in this classic episode.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hey, I'm Lance Bass, host of the new iHeart podcast Frosted Tips with Lance Bass. Do you ever think to yourself, what advice would Lance Bass and my favorite boy bands give me in this situation? If you do, you've come to the right place because I'm here to help. And a different hot sexy teen crush boy bander each week to guide you through life. Tell everybody, yeah, everybody about my new podcast and make sure to listen so we'll never, ever have to say bye, bye, bye. Listen to Frosted Tips with Lance Bass on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to podcasts. I'm Munga Chauticular and it turns out astrology is way more widespread than any of us want to

believe. You can find in Major League Baseball, International Banks, K-pop groups, even the White House. But just when I thought I had a handle on this subject, something completely unbelievable happened to me and my whole view on astrology changed. Whether you're a skeptic or a believer, give me a few minutes because I think your ideas are about to change too. Listen to Skyline Drive on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey everybody, the moment October starts, all I want to do is watch horror movies. So I thought it would be a good select this weekend to release our episode on horror movies. If you watch much horror, it doesn't take long to catch up to the fact that there are a lot of cruddy horror movies

out there. But there's also a bunch of really great ones too, and we talk about some of them here. I hope this episode directs you to some movies that scare your socks off this October. Enjoy. Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeart radio. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. Charles W. Chuck Bryant. Howdy. His middle name's Wayne. My middle name's Malcolm. There we have it. I always forget about that, Malcolm. Yeah, Wayne. Named after Wayne Coyne, right?

No, John Wayne, and you were named after Malcolm in the middle. That's right. Frankie Munis is my namesake. I hope he's okay. Early Brian Cranston too. I used to love that show. Oh, it's a great show. I watched it like within the last couple of months, I was cleaning the house and put it on Netflix, and still great. Yeah. Yeah, it is really, it is a good show. So you clean your house, you put on your VR goggles, and just cue up Malcolm in the middle? Yeah. No, I just... You walk around and bump into things and... Right, exactly. But I put on like a huge feather duster suit.

Yeah, so you're just cleaning and bumping into things. That's right. That's how I do it. Wow. Yeah, it works kind of well. Someone's going to take that idea. Yeah, like the Sharknado? Yeah, but they should just, they should sell that suit with a purple drink. I think you just get one spot on the floor really, really clean. What are you going to title this one, by the way, because this is your pick and we title our own shows episodes. Oh, some horror films that change the genre.

All right, and you should add this, aka, how could you guys forget blank? Yeah, we should say like this, first of all, this is a Grabster article, so it's Grabster's list. Sure. And he knows what he's talking about. If you look at some of the entries, some don't even have source tags. Whoa. He's just like, I just know. He should just sort of tag it, Grabster. But we even took his list and carved some out and put some in. So this is, how about this? This is Josh and Chuck's idea of some horror films that change the genre, featuring the mind of the Grabster.

Yes. In other words, it is not a complete list of every horror film that changed the genre. Yes. Because I would argue that, well, and actually I see Grabster put Texas Chainsaw Masquer in there. He said that if this were a top 15 list that would be in there, so would Alien. Yeah, he has that, Alien, Ringu and the US remake Ring. And I would lobby for, well, Psycho didn't make it onto his list, but we're going to put that in. And there was one more. Oh, even though I didn't really think it was that great, the movie Saw, I think kind of changed horror films.

And that's what this list is, not best horror films, but things that kind of changed the game. Yeah. It seems like Saw kind of kicked off that torture porn. Yeah, didn't it? I can't remember if it was that or hostile, one of the two. It was definitely one of the two for a subgenre. Well, it's pretty accurate, actually. It is, but most of these are movies that either were the first of its kind and maybe did start a

subgenre or movies that were so popular that they just, you know, kind of rewrote how people view horror movies, some of them because of marketing, some because they were really good movies, some because of box office. But all of these, I don't think anyone could argue did not change the genre. How about that? Sure. Yeah, I think that's well put, dude. And before we get started speaking of horror, I want to give a plug to my friend Toby's movie that's coming out.

He's a producer on a movie coming out called The Ghost Story. Yeah, Toby, when we met Toby, well, you knew Toby before me, of course, because he's your friend. And I know him through you, me. So really, yeah, but he was, he was small time doing short films and stuff. And since that time, and this has been within the last like, since we've been doing this podcast, he's now big time. Yeah, they did Pete's Dragon. Yeah.

And then, yeah, they have this, they did Ain't Them Body Saints was I think the one that they kind of broke out with. Which I love that movie. And then this one definitely kind of falls into that same look and mood and feel with, it's called The Ghost Story. And I think it comes out in July. And I think it's labeled a drama rather than horror or even supernatural or thriller. But the reason I tie it into horror is because A24 is releasing it.

And A24 is killing it with horror movies lately. Yeah, that's a good, that's a good outfit. They did The Witch. They did The Black Coat's Daughter. Have you seen that? No. It's on Amazon Prime. No, it's not.

It's on Amazon Prime right now. No, I didn't give a thumbs up. Dude, it's one of the best horror movies I've seen in a while. I think The Witch is probably my favorite right now. Yeah. Black Coat's Daughter is a close second. And then last night I saw, it comes at night in the theater and it comes at night actually upset my stomach, the ending did.

It was, it was that rough. Yeah, I think we're, we've, we're at a place with horror movies that we haven't been in a long time, like a really genuine. Good spot. Yeah, like the whole torture porn sort of era. Sort of era is over and the found footage thing is so played. Oh man. But I think we'd like with movies like The Witch, I think we've really, like there are

some really creative it follows. Did you see that one? Yeah. Like some just really creative ways of bringing scares that I haven't seen before. Get out. That was amazing. Did you see Get Out? Man, I still haven't seen it.

You're going to love it. I know. I'm envious of you. It's really, it's great movie. Chuck, you're going to love it. Well, I don't get to the movies much anymore. And the only time I could was a couple of weeks ago and I elected to see Wonder Woman. Yeah.

Not a bad choice. So long way of saying congratulations to Toby and his new film. Well, that's funny. We also need to congratulate Toby too because Toby just got married. Toby and Annelle are now married. So congratulations to them as well. So is this new movie with his directing partner, David Lowry? Yeah.

Yeah. And Rooney Mara. Man, they got a good thing going. Yeah. They, they definitely do. So it's going to be good. I'm looking forward to it. Awesome.

Okay. So let's get started. Thanks for, for indulging that. Thank you, everybody. So the first, the first movie on our list is what's widely considered the first horror movie. And it's a 1920 movie out of Germany that basically was the first film that undertook what's the artistic movement known as German expressionism. Yeah.

It's called the cabinet of Dr. Caligari. Yeah. I mean, some say, like you said, it was the first horror movie. Some say it was the first cult film. It, well, just, you may not be able to get through the whole thing if you're not into silent movies, but you should queue up a little bit of it and watch a little bit of it because it's hugely impactful. And still to this day, like very disconcerting to look at because of it, how

ominous and weird it looked, just physically looked. Yeah. Like the sets that they built are obviously constructed manufactured. They were not in any way shape before I'm going for realism. They were going for surrealism for sure. Yeah. Yeah, and so like the staircases are at crazy weird curves and angles and like everything from the house, the house's rooftops to the blades of grass are super pointy and sharp

and the shadows that they employed are just perfect. You've never seen a better use of shadows than this. They didn't get in the way. They just created this mood and it was the first movie to really kind of do that to just take, to use the camera for something other than capturing realism. And for that reason, it's considered the first horror movie because that's such a standard part of horror, whether in large part like in a Tim Burton movie or in small part, you know, where you're using small spaces to create claustrophobia.

The idea of using the set to mess with the viewer's mind I think is born in Dr. Caligari's cabinet. Yeah, it's almost like they took a child and gave them construction paper and said cut out scary things. Right. And then like that movie, The Babadook, I think the actual book within The Babadook was hugely inspired by this. The actual movie itself, the plot is about a sideshow operator, a hypnotist who has a patient that he takes around to these sideshows with sleep disorder.

Supposedly, he's been asleep his entire life and he uses this patient to commit murder. Right. He's like a sleepwalker. Yeah. A somnambulist. So that in itself is a pretty frightening plot and to think about that being cooked up in 1920 when there weren't really not such things that you think of as horror movies is pretty impressive. And then some of the deeper critiques I've seen of it was the explanation for why the

filmmakers chose these weird odd angles to kind of depict insanity or that kind of thing. Yeah. It was rooted in World War I. The horrors of World War I had just been seen and revealed and recently taken place and it upended Europe in general and especially Germany as well. And the idea is that they might not have had this idea, they might not have had this desire, this drive to create this weird set and in fact this weird movie had World War I not happened. Yeah. There's this writer, Jeff Saperito, who kind of put it this way about German expressionism

because I wasn't exactly sure how to define it, but you're kind of right on the money. He said Germany was largely isolated from the rest of the world, largely isolated from the rest of the world following World War I, so expressionism therefore became confined to the country, refers to a number of creative movements from World War I through the 1920s. Expressionist works examine the current and future state of the culture through bold and artistic creations of creativity and often explored topics of madness, betrayal and other intellectual concepts and nothing encapsulates these ideas more than the

cabinet of Dr. Caligari. That's basically what I said. Yeah. Did you read that or were you just that spot? I don't know if I read that one or not. It sounded kind of familiar. Yeah. No, just say you came up with it. So the idea of the set just creating like a creepy tone and texture to everything, that was Dr. Caligari. That's how it changed the genre. Yeah. Tim Burton say thank you. Yeah. Have you seen Coraline? No, but I know it. They did that to very good effect.

You know, I think Hodgman does a voice in that, doesn't he? He does. He does the dad. He did a spectacular job because you actually forget it's Hodgman while you're watching it. That's impossible. All right, Chuck, moving on. That was 1920. We're going to fast forward all the way to what, 1960? 1963, if you're talking about blood feast. Well, I wasn't, but let's. Simon Abrams of RogerEbert.com says this, blood feast is a terrible film and a historically important one too. And I think that's sort of the deal with blood feast. It is not good by any accounts.

Did you watch any of it? Yeah, sure. It's not good. No, it's not good. It's terrible. It was written based on a 14 page outline. Didn't even have a script. It's got the same cloying technicolor of like an early Hawaii 5.0 episode. Yeah, for sure. Directed by Herschel Gordon-Lewis and producer David F. Friedman. And basically the idea was this. These guys did not see films as art. They saw them as a business and thought you were foolish if you thought it was anything else. So they sat around, they brainstormed the movies that they thought no one else would make.

Yeah, because they started out making like porkies-esque type movies. And they were doing fine with that. But apparently they were successful enough with it that they started to be imitators and the market was crowded. So they said, where can we go make movies that no one else is going to make? Yeah, because we want to shock people essentially. So a couple of ideas they had that did not make the list was con man evangelist and Nazi torture, which were later made. Exactly. And they finally said, you know what? No one's really done yet is hardcore gore. Yeah. Like everyone always cuts away when the knife comes.

And you're like, what if we showed the grossest, gory stuff imaginable on screen? Yeah. And even still they didn't show. So like one of the first murder, a woman stabbed through the eye and then the murderer hacks her legs off of the machete. And they didn't show the knife penetrate the eye. They didn't show the machete making contact with the skin. But what they did in blood feasts and what made blood feasts the first of its kind was they would show what came after that. They would show the brains on the ground. They would show the entrails like on the knife. They would show the leg being, you know, that had been dismembered being put into a bag and like the wound that was left by it.

Like this was, no one had ever done anything like that on film before. No. And it paid off. They, depending on who you ask, the budget was anywhere from like 20 to 30 grand and it made between seven and $30 million. Like I said, depending on where you get your info, but by all accounts, it was a huge financial success compared to what they paid to make it. Yeah. And they shot it in I think six days or something down in Miami. Based on a 14 page outline, there wasn't even a script. It was an outline. Basically it was like murderer goes and kills this girl. Next girl, murderer comes in, kills girl, cuts off leg, that kind of thing, right? Yeah. I mean, if it matters, the movie's about a serial killer caterer.

Yeah. That's it. There's your plot right there. Yep. But the, the, it was just such a revolutionary movie that the sensors at the time, there wasn't such a thing as the MPAA hadn't been formed yet. And there was basically no one except for local sensors overseeing movies. Yeah. So, you know, you, you could be playing in one town to all audiences and then the next town over, it could be banned, but the sensors had never seen anything like it and they didn't know what to do with it. So it was hugely successful commercially too. Yeah. And another big impact it had was it inspired a generation of special effects, but basically, let's be honest, young boys who were doing this on their own super eight films and said, wait, I can get a job doing this. Yep. So. Including

Tom Savini, I think was inspired by it, wasn't he? Or was he inspired by, yeah, I think he was inspired by Blood Feast. Oh, wow. And then we should also give a mention to the Grand Guignol. Is that how you think it's pronounced? Sure. Grand Guignol. Sure. It was a theater in Paris, I believe, from the late 19th century on to I think 1962. So the year before Blood Feast came out. It had closed up, but it used to do this stuff on stage. It was like a gore fest. There was lots of like blood and sex and like depraved themes in the plays that were put on at this theater. People loved it. They were crazy for it. And this was kind of like the Grand Guignol tradition put on the film for the first time. And who wrote for that?

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All right, Charles, we're back. So 1960 or 1960, not eight? I've got 1968 in front of my face. Okay. And that could be no other movie than Night of the Living Dead, classic George Romero film. Romero was a TV director, making TV commercials, commercial director rather. He was also making short films for Mr. Rogers Neighborhood at the time. Yeah. And he was young. Yeah. I don't know how old he was, but he was a pretty young guy still in 1968. I think when he shot Night of the Living Dead, he was like 26 or 27. Wow. So yeah, by any standard, that's still pretty young, unless you're 23. So he and his buddies were like, let's make a horror movie, but let's not make a stupid horror movie. Let's make one with like

an actual plot that explores like deep themes too. Like a good movie. Let's make the first good horror movie. Well, yeah. And we'll delve into that a little more, but that was definitely a different thing at the time. And the other different thing was that all the horror movies up to that point, they were called the Universal Monsters from Universal Studios, you know, all the kind of the classic Frankenstein and Dracula and Creature from the Black Lagoon and the Werewolf. And that was where that was mainstream horror. And George Romero comes along and says, how about zombies? And everyone said, what in the world is a zombie? And he said, well, let me define that for every future generation of movie and TV goers and lovers.

Yeah. And there had been zombie movies before, but they had been things like, like Dr. Caligari's cabinet, somebody who was under the control of something, someone else or something like that. There was a hypnotist or this was like the first time what we think of as zombies were ever introduced, like flesh eating ghouls who were dead and come back to life. Yeah. Just what you think of as a zombie. This guy started that genre, like you said. Yeah. They shot it outside in Pittsburgh on about $115,000 budget. Ended up grossing $12 million domestic. Not bad. And I think close to 20 worldwide and was eventually selected by the Library of Congress for preservation in the National

Film Registry. It's a good movie. It's a very good movie. They shot it in black and white to save on cost, even though color was the standard by that point. And black and white is also a little more forgiving for rudimentary special effects. And one of the revolutionary things he did was cast a black actor as the lead. And for no other reason than, hey, this guy, Dwayne Jones is really good. Exactly, right. Like he didn't go back and go, oh, well, you know, our hero is black. So we need to make the whole thing of meditation on race and have him confront racism. It was just, here's the script. And then the guy playing the lead just happens to be black. Right. And he was the best guy in the auditions. And, you know, in 1968, this didn't really happen.

You didn't just cast a black guy as the lead actor for no, with no, like, ulterior motive, basically. Right. So I read this review from the, from the time, from 1969, the year after it came out, a young Roger Ebert went and watched it and wrote a review. And he wrote a pretty, pretty interesting review, which was basically, it was about the reaction of the audience. And he went to a Saturday matinee that was populated almost entirely by 10, 11 year olds. Oh, wow. And they were used to seeing the creature from the black lagoon or Frankenstein or, you know, just, just movies that any kid could handle and could enjoy watching and, you know, fun, scary kind of stuff. Yeah. And he said that's how the, that was how the crowd reacted for the

first half of the movie. But then about the point where, and here's, here come spoilers, everybody, if you haven't seen Night of the Living Dead, just hit yourself in the knee with a hammer. The teenage couple go to get gas. And when their car blows up and is engulfed in flames, they die, they're burned to death. He said, right about that time, the tone, the mood of the theater changed. And there was no, like, gleeful screaming anymore. Kids were starting to, like, not move and were afraid to, like, move in their seats. And some were quietly crying to themselves. And from that, the whole, the whole point on, it just got worse and worse for these little kids watching this movie. So it was a huge impact on horror movies. A, it, like you said earlier, it

was kind of the first one to really sort of delve into other issues. Like, if you look up, like, significance of Night of the Living Dead or meaning of Night of the Living Dead or something like that, there are scores of articles that have been written over the years of how it was a metaphor for the Vietnam War or an allegory about distrust of authority or the collapse of traditional family. And I think Romero said, like, I didn't necessarily mean all these things, but you can certainly find it in the movie. That is art. Like, one of the great revelations of my adult life is that the artist, the writer, the songwriter, the author rarely intends to imbue as much meaning into their work as people take from it. That that's part of art as interpretation. Isn't that neat? Like, you

know, if you're a writer, if you're a young writer right now who's just sitting there racking your brain for how to insert metaphor and, and meaning into this, just write your story and people are going to find it for themselves. Yeah, agreed. I wish somebody had told me that when I was younger. I had teachers that said stuff like that. Oh, I didn't. Like, good college professors in English that would, when students would argue like, I think he means this, he would say like, you know, he may or she may not have meant anything. Right. That's the revelation. I had teachers that would just go wrong. The other thing about Night of the Living Dead is it spawned obviously the zombie genre and sequels, Dawn of the Dead, Day of the Dead, Return of the Living Dead, The Walking Dead,

Remakes. Yeah, shout out, shout out Steven Yoon. Yeah. Right. Why not? I'm still into the Walking Dead, you. Yeah, we talked about this. Yes. Okay, Steven Yoon listens. Anyway, zombies are, I think, still hot and we can. So hot. We owe that all to Mr. Romero, master of the genre. Yep. Check one more thing too that, that Night of the Living Dead did that they weren't the first, but very famously, Romero did was kill off his hero senselessly and shockingly. Yeah. At the end. Good point. Thanks, man. Okay, so let's move on. Like I said, 1973. Yes. Day after Christmas. If you've ever been in Washington DC at the end of M Street, you might have noticed very, during the daytime, ordinary set of stairs. At nighttime, maybe they look creepy to you because those are the Exorcist

stairs. Yeah. I'm trying to conjure the music in my head, but all I'm coming up with is the Unsolved Mysteries music. It was not quite right. So close, but it's not it. I'm so unsatisfied right now. So the Exorcist was based on a book by William Peter Blatty, who wrote this in 1971. And then in 73, the movie was made. And there's, I think I referenced not too long ago, a great Mark Marin interview with William Friedkin where he talks about the audition process for Linda Blair. So you should go listen to that because it was pretty insightful. But the Exorcist really kind of changed the game in that it was, a, it spawned a bit of a subgenre of demonic movies. Sure. That were like religious based. Yeah. Even though I guess Rosemary's baby was

before that, but the Exorcist was such a mega hit and it was nominated for Best Picture, the first horror movie to be nominated for that. And so it was just like, it was a big deal. It was. It sold six million tickets in about two months. Yeah. It's amazing. This is a horror movie, right? And it came out in nowhere. Apparently the effect it had on audiences was extremely pronounced. There was a woman in Boston who had to be carried from the theater and she goes, it cost me $4, but I only lasted 20 minutes. So we're like, that's the stories of that got around. And people wanted to see, you know, this movie can't be that scary. And they went and they were like, Oh my God, that movie is that scary. Yeah. And it holds up too. I mean, special effects

are they'd never quite hold up, but it's still a very creepy movie. Very famously, Linda Blair played the little girl who was possessed by a demon and the heavy hitters were called in to exercise this demon, including a Max Van Seedal who was only 44 when he played this guy in his easily in his 70s. Yeah. Was he Benjamin Button? Well, no, they made him up. Wow. They did a great job. Yeah, which I don't see why they felt the need to do that. I know they, God, who else did they almost cast? Oh, Brando. They almost cast Brando, but that would have been a colossal mistake. Well, Friedkin said, you know, as soon as you do that, it's a Marlon Brando movie. Yeah. And I think he said picture, a Brando picture. Sure. That's what they said.

And he didn't want it to be a Brando picture. He wanted to be the exorcist. So you said it was based on a book from two years before by William Peter Blatty. He apparently was known as a comedy writer and he wanted to do something different. He said, hey, wouldn't it be funny if the little girl's head spun around and she puked green bile? Wait, what do you hear what I have her do with the crucifix? So he actually wrote the book because he wanted to scare America back to church. That was his aim with the book. He believed that there was real evil going on the world and that part of it was because of a loss of faith or a loss of religion, I guess. And that's what he wanted to do with it. And when the movie came out, there was a huge pushback from

religious authorities. Like Billy Graham said, he believed the movie itself was possessed by a demon. I'm not sure how that would happen, but that was like a huge thing at the time. And a lot of other religious establishment types were like, don't go see that movie. It's evil. But there were some who were part of religion, major organized religion, who kind of saw through it and said, no, no, it's good that we're talking about this, that we're telling people or people are seeing that there's such a thing as like good versus evil, literally combating on earth, you know, when people are talking about this and thinking about it. And so in that sense, the exorcist like really kind of went to bat for organized religion.

Oh, interesting. I saw another criticism of it, though, that said one of the themes of the movie that the book hadn't really intended, but the movie picked up on and expounded on was intergenerational conflict, that it was Reagan, the child, represented the younger generation who was at war with the establishment, and that it even goes so far as to where her mother, the actress, the movie that she's working on is about a campus takeover by young radicals. So that's kind of a theme that was apparently part of the subtext, but was a major part of it in the movie, at least. Interesting.

Yeah, I thought so too, because apparently, I mean, you think of intergenerational conflict now, apparently in the late 60s and early 70s, it was sharper than it probably ever has been before or since. Yeah. The only other thing I got is that the green stuff that she projectiles was Anderson's pea soup and a little bit of oatmeal, protector. Anderson's pea soup, well, but you can't get that anymore.

Chuck, let's do Jaws, and then we'll take a break. I love talking about Jaws. Yeah. I mean, Jaws is on, you know, I did my top favorite movies list at one point on our website, and I listed Jaws as my favorite movie. Favorite of all time. Yeah. I mean, that list changes, but it's Jaws is always in my top five. I can watch it anytime it's on. It is one of the, I've often said it's a perfect movie, and what I mean by that is is there's just not a misstep. Like the casting was perfect. The acting was great. The script was great. It played out just perfectly throughout the film.

He, like Spielberg was just a master storyteller with that movie. You were talking about how young George Romero was in Night of the Living Dead. Spielberg was 26 when he made Jaws. He was 13 years old. You're right. And he was apparently scared to death when he finished filming. The schedule had been for 55 days. It went to 159. He had, I think, been allotted $4 million. He ended up spending $12 million on it. Yeah, largely because, A, shooting on water is notoriously difficult, and B, the shark,

mechanical shark they used was legendarily wonky, and how it, or not wonky, but wanky. Wonky? It didn't work. It rarely worked. So they spent a lot of time and burned a lot of hours trying to get this shark to do its thing. And so much so that it didn't even make that many appearances in the movie. I think they even kind of scaled it back, and that ended up being better for the movie because you didn't get as much shark. I looked up the urban legend about the shark being named after Spielberg's lawyer, Bruce. And apparently it's true. Oh, really? Yeah. Bruce Rainer was the name of Spielberg's lawyer, and that was the nickname for the mechanical shark on the set was Bruce. That's pretty funny. So with Jaws, right, we're talking

about horror movies that changed the genre. Jaws not only changed the horror genre, it changed movie making to this day. Yeah. And in multiple ways, multiple massive ways, it changed the entire film industry almost single-handedly. Yeah, it was, at the time, there was no such thing. You take it for granted now, but there was no such thing as a quote, unquote, summer release. No, a lot of theaters closed down because A.C. wasn't in every theater, and people then want to sit around in a hot movie theater for two hours. Yeah, a summer release or a tentpole film or a blockbuster feature. Jaws was the first one of all those. At the time when Jaws came out, they used to release a movie on maybe one, two screens,

and say New York or LA for a week, and then it'd make its way to Atlanta, Minneapolis, Chicago for a few weeks, and then eventually it'd make it to your small town six, eight weeks later. Yeah. That was how movies were released, not Jaws. Jaws was released on 435 screens across the country, which is huge, which is part of the summer blockbuster release playbook now. Yeah, and it was also the first movie to spend lots and lots of money on marketing. And so I think the studios were like, wait a minute, if you spend some dough on marketing, you release this thing wide, you can make a ton of money in the first month that a movie's out, and you're kind of set. After that, it's anything else's gravy, and that's after the first week or

two probably. Yeah, the whole point of blockbuster now is to get that opening weekend to make all your money back in the opening weekend and then everything else is gravy on top of it, right? Jaws was, it didn't make its, I don't know, maybe it did make its money back in the first weekend, because it hit $100 million in like 78 days or something incredible like that, because it was the first movie to hit $100 million, and it did it in just a couple months even. Yeah, it eventually went on to make about $260 million domestically, which is, I mean, that's a great take now, you know, much less the mid-1970s. Sure, for a $12 million spend for sure.

My only beef here is that I would not consider Jaws a horror movie. Yeah. I think it's an adventure film. Yeah, I guess you're right. With a scary antagonist. Yeah. But it's amazing how much I quote that movie in my day-to-day life. Yeah, a shush-shush-shark. That's a great, that's a classic. All right, let's take a break. I'm going to meditate on that line, and we'll talk about a few other scary movies,

including one that was originally titled Scary Movie. Ah, okay, I see what you're doing. Do you ever think to yourself, what advice would Lance Bass and my favorite boy bands give me in this situation? If you do, you've come to the right place because I'm here to help. This, I promise you. Oh, God. Seriously, I swear. And you won't have to send an SOS because I'll be there for you.

Oh, man. And so my husband, Michael. Um, hey, that's me. Yeah, we know that, Michael. And a different hot, sexy teen crush boy bander each week to guide you through life, step by step. Oh, not another one. Uh-huh.

Kids, relationships, life in general can get messy. You may be thinking, this is the story of my life. Oh, just stop now. If so, tell everybody, yeah, everybody about my new podcast and make sure to listen. So we'll never, ever have to say bye, bye, bye. Listen to Frosted Tips with Lance Bass on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

I'm Mangesh Atikular. And to be honest, I don't believe in astrology. But from the moment I was born, it's been a part of my life. In India, it's like smoking. You might not smoke, but you're going to get secondhand astrology. And lately, I've been wondering if the universe has been trying to tell me to stop running and pay attention. Because maybe there is magic in the stars, if you're willing to look for it.

So I rounded up some friends and we dove in and let me tell you, it got weird fast. Tantric curses, major league baseball teams, canceled marriages, K-pop. But just when I thought I had a handle on this sweet and curious show about astrology, my whole world came crashing down. Situation doesn't look good. There is risk to father.

And my whole view on astrology, it changed. Whether you're a skeptic or a believer, I think your ideas are going to change too. Listen to Skyline Drive and the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Okay, moving on to Halloween. Halloween, Chuck, 1978, I believe, Halloween. Yes, John Carpenter, a youngish John Carpenter who originally titled this movie The Babysitter Murders.

No. A little on the nose. Yeah. A pretty terrifying title. I guess. Young Jamie Lee Curtis, her very first movie. Was it really? Yeah.

Well, she went on to become known as the Scream Queen for all the horror movies she was in. Totally. And this was shot in 20 days in South Pasadena as the Midwest. And it's credited as being birthing the slasher genre. Yeah, it did. So there were slasher films before it, The Town That Dreaded Sundown. Good movie. It was like based on a true crime story actually in Texas.

One called Black Christmas, The Grabster Sights from 1974. Haven't heard of that one. But the idea of a faceless, almost like non-entity entity coming at you and relentlessly stalking you, being impervious to harm as The Grabster puts it, and just coming at you again and again trying to kill you, that was all established by Halloween. And it was done to great effect as well. Yeah, and it holds up. It's still scary.

Michael Myers, of course, was the killer. The music that John Carpenter scored. I mean, he scores most of his movies himself. But very iconic, basic thing. I think he only took a couple of days to come up with it. But the Michael Myers character and the mask are so iconic. The music is so iconic. You know about the mask, right?

Right. Shatner. Yeah. Yeah, go ahead. I went and checked that one out too to verify that it was true. And it definitely is true that Michael Myers mask is actually a Captain Kirk Star Trek mask painted white. Yep.

That is history. Yep. In the script, when it came to the mask, it just said pale, neutral features of a man. Yeah, which makes the whole thing even creepier. Sure. Because he's implacid or is that the right word? I don't know. He's just almost like just an emotionless killer.

Oh, yeah. It made the fact that he was merciless, ruthless, pitiless, and arbitrarily killing people almost. All the more pronounced because his expression never changes. Well, to me, the two things that were creepiest about Halloween was the expression never changed because of that mask and he did not run. Like, he would just walk and you still got the feeling like you can't outrun this guy even though he's walking. That was another creepy part about it.

It follows with the walking aspect of it. Oh, yeah, for sure. Yeah. Yeah. In the same way that like 28 days later was freaky in that it took zombies and made them run. Yeah. Or I remember when I saw Friday the 13th, I'm sorry, Nightmare on Elm Street for the first time and Freddy Kruger was running around.

I was like, that's not what scary dudes do. Yeah, scary dudes don't trot. No, they walk very creepily toward you and still somehow gain speed on you even though you're running full speed. Well, Freddy scared me to death the first time I saw that movie. Yeah. First one was a pretty good one. But Halloween established this, like you said, it established the slasher genre and everything about slasher films still today all rooted in Halloween, John Carpenter's tropes.

Yeah. And again, like you said, there were a couple of other slasher films before, but none of them grossed close to 50 million bucks. Wow. Is that how much Halloween made? Yeah. 47 million domestic at about a $300,000 budget. So it, you know, it's sort of like with the Exorcist. Like there were other movies that sort of did this thing before, but when you have a huge hit that does it is when it sort of redefines the genre because it makes money. Yeah.

And that's all that matters. Everyone starts paying attention after that. All right. What's next? What's next, my friend, is a movie that came out when, I don't know, were you still in college? No, you must have just been out then. I was out a few years. Okay. Well, regardless around our college era, this movie came out because up to this point, everything's come out either when we were little or before we were born.

And this one was right in our wheelhouse. It was the Blair Witch Project, which came out in 1998. Yeah. And one of the big things that Blair Witch Project did, well, two things really, it established the found footage genre or subgenre that is so overplayed now in the viral marketing campaign. And that's how I came upon it. I remember very specifically being in the apartment of Scott Ippolito, who you know. Sure.

He shot our TV show, one of my oldest friends, and I was sitting in his apartment on Claremont Avenue in Decatur, and I happened upon this, and this was pre-Facebook. I don't even know how I found it before things were being shared around. And I happened upon this website, the very first Blair Witch Project website, and I was like, dude, come over here and check this out. This is the scariest thing I've ever seen. And I remember the website set it up as if it was real, and that this found footage thing, it's so overdone now.

It's hard to go back in time and remember when it was fresh. But I remember looking at it and being like, did this happen? Did they really find this footage of this murder in the woods? Like, I got to see this. That was the rumor that this was actually real, man. And this is, like you said, I mean, this is before the found footage genre. So people were being exposed to this concept for the first time and were kind of falling for it. I mean, first of all, you're either in college or you're just recently out of college.

So you're maybe slightly more gullible than you are 10 years on. You're ready to believe it. You want to believe, right? So yeah, the idea that this was actual found footage, it just made it all the more enjoyable and people were buying into it. And I think the other part of it too was that the filmmakers, partly because they didn't have the budget for actual effects, left a lot of the scariest parts to your imagination.

Yeah, nor did they have the talent to make a good narrative film. I mean, they worked on a 64 page script, which I was surprised that it was that big, but they shot it for eight days. And originally they were going to make it like a documentary about the found footage. Right. And then one of them had a flash of perspective and was like, wait, wait, wait, wait, let's just release it like it's found footage. And that was the rest was history.

Yeah. And I'm poking fun. That was not very nice at all. Eduardo Sanchez and Daniel Meirich or Meirich, the co-directors, they should be credited with a truly ingenious campaign and invention. Well, they weren't the first to come up with found footage, right? There were some films before. I've never known how to pronounce it. Mondo Kane or Mondo Kane, I think Kane, it's from 1962. And it was supposedly a documentary about weird tribal rituals.

I think there's head shrinking maybe involved. And it purported to be like real footage. Yeah. Same with Cannibal Holocaust, which if you've never seen Cannibal Holocaust, go out and watch it right now. Yeah. It's very disturbing. And it's so disturbing that the director of the movie was charged with murder

because they believed that the actual murders depicted, they were so realistic, they thought that it was a snuff film basically. But it was supposed to be a documentary as well. So there was an idea of like found footage or documentary style horror movies that had come before, but nothing like the Blair Witch, where it was just straight up these people. We found their old camera and this is what was on it. Well, and they were smart enough to kind of dig up an old thing that never went huge, you know.

And they're like, hey man, like these other movies, they never really hit it big. And they, it was a timing thing. I mean, hats off for them, to them. Good for them and to them. Nice going, dudes. All right, Chuck. Scream.

Yeah, scream, a tease that it was originally titled Scary Movie. I'm glad it wasn't because Scary Movie is awesome. I don't know what Scary Movie ever would have been called. Maybe it would have never been made. Or maybe they would have called that Scream. Oh yeah, I guess so. So Scream was a very big deal when it came out. The writer Kevin Williamson,

and this is still the highest growing slasher film of all time basically. Scream one is. It was huge. I got Neve Campbell's haircut as a result of it. Like it was a big, big pop culture watermark. It was and one of the big things about it aside from the boat loads of money that it made was it spawned a subgenre called Metahorror, which is even though it had been done

by no less than its own director, Wes Craven, with Wes Craven's New Nightmare two years before Scream. It wasn't nearly as popular, but Metahorror is this idea. And if you've ever seen Scream, you know they're constantly just referencing horror movies. Like this is where, you know, you don't go out and make out in the car

because that's where you get killed. And then they would do that and get killed. Right. Although I don't think that specific thing happened. Like don't go back into the house. Yeah. Like all the tropes of horror movies are addressed in the movie. And they're talking about them as the horror movie tropes.

Yes. Yeah. Exactly. Metahorror. Yeah. And there are plenty of other things that came along Metahorror examples. Like have you seen Tucker and Dale versus Evil? No, it's a good.

Oh, check it out, man. All right. That's a good movie. Zombie Land. Yeah, I did see that. Where he's rattling off all of the things that you need to know to survive a zombie apocalypse that he learned from zombie movies. Right.

And then Cabin in the Woods. Did you see that one? Great movie. It was a great movie. I thought it was really good. I mean, from beginning to end, it was a great movie. Did you like Scream? Yeah.

Love Scream. I liked all the Screams. I only saw the first two. The second one, I think might have been even better than the first. Maybe. And that the second was shot. Emily worked on that. It was shot here at Agnes Scott College partially.

Oh, is that right? Yeah. I'll have to go back and watch it knowing that now. I'll be like, oh, I driven past that place. So I got a few tidbits. Like I said, initial title was Scary Movie. Number two, The Weinstein Brothers initially offered it to George Romero and Sam Raimi. What else do I have here?

Drew Barrymore was originally supposed to play Sydney, the lead character. And then she said, no, how about if I just play that girl at the beginning, which kind of was a big thing because you see Drew Barrymore. And it was a big shock when she died in the first scene. Right. You know? You can't kill off your heroine right away. Yeah.

And I remember that first scene really, really scaring me when I saw it the first time in the theater. Yeah, it is. It's a scary, gruesome, gory heart. Yeah. Very well played. And then before he went to Neve Campbell, he went out to Alicia Witt, Brittany Murphy, and Reese Witherspoon. And then Neve Campbell was like, no, that was your first choice, right?

And then the mask, the iconic screen mask apparently was an off-the-shelf mask. Wow. That made that company's money. Yeah. And the Weinstein's didn't like it. They were like, I hate that mask. Everything else is fine. But Wes Craven said, no, it's got to be that mask.

Don't be stupid, Bob. All right. We're going to finish up with our own edition here. Finally, 1960. Yes. Psycho. I can't believe this wasn't in the list. I think Ed kept this off the list to toy with somebody he doesn't like specifically.

That's the only explanation. Yeah, because Psycho changed everything. Yeah, it really did. You could say that it was one of the first slasher flicks. It was an early psychological thriller. Yeah. It was based on the real-life story of Ed Gein. I mean, it doesn't exactly mirror Ed Gein's life,

but the idea of being obsessed with your mother so much that you will commit murder is definitely rooted in Ed Gein's story. If you're not familiar with Ed Gein, he not only... I don't even know if he was a serial killer. I think he murdered one, maybe two people, but more than anything, he was a grave robber, but he likes to dress up in people's skin, women's skin, and pretend he was his own mother, which, man, that's a lot of years on the couch working that one out. Yeah.

Or you can just die at the hands of cops, one of the two. And he also inspired Leatherface from Texas Chainsaw Massacre. Yeah, and Buffalo Bill, of course. Oh, yeah, yeah. One guy inspired all those guys. So I found this article, Psycho, The Horror Movie That Changed the Genre, by Owen Gleberman, or is it Glyberman? Gleber, I think.

Gleberman, he wrote for... Legendary critic, wrote for EW for years and years and now writes for Variety. Oh, he does? Yeah, but he put it best. He said, well, you know, the iconic shower scene, first of all, is hugely important because it was... Hitchcock really kind of ripped up the script, not literally, but the horror movie script, when he kills off Janet Lee halfway through the movie.

It was... You just didn't do that at the time. No, and we've seen that come up later on, like at the end of Night of the Living Dead, or Drew Barrymore and Scream. Hitchcock was the first one to do that. Yeah, and Gleberman puts it this way. He said he was also slicing through years, decades, centuries even, of audience expectation that the hero or heroine of the fictional work

would be shielded and protected, or would at least die, usually at the end, in a way that made some sort of moral dramatic sense. In Psycho, the murder made no sense at all. Right. And he really kind of hits it on the head there. It was like, if you've never seen Psycho or heard of it, the movie's just going along about this woman who like steals some money from her work, and she's kind of on the lam and checks into this hotel,

and you don't even know it's a horror movie. You're thinking it's a movie about a lady who steals money and is trying to get away from getting caught. And then just out of nowhere, she's hacked up in a shower. And at the time, audiences, and still, if you haven't seen it, it's shocking, but audiences were just like, they didn't know what they'd seen. Right, exactly. So not only is the hero no longer safe, that means maybe you're not either.

Yeah. So it had a really huge unsettling effect. And then Owen Gleberman points out that Hitchcock was so smart, that he even made a nod to the type of Pat expected horror that the audience was used to in the house that he used for Psycho, the Bates house. It was this huge rambling Victorian mansion on a hill. There was lots of taxidermy, and it was over decorated and just creepy. But up to that point, that was horror.

That was what a horror movie looked like and felt like. And this was kind of Hitchcock's homage to that. But at the same time, he was also putting the heel of his shoe on it as well. Yeah. And that house was, I mean, almost a character in itself. Like if you've ever seen the recreation of it in Los Angeles, I think it's universal. Did you see it? Oh, yeah.

I never did. The closest I came was, I think, when different strokes went there. That's the closest you got to it? Yeah. Yeah, man. If you've ever seen this thing in person, like it sends a chill up your back, just seeing this thing in like a sunny Los Angeles day still. That's awesome.

It's such an iconic house. It's like, oh man, there it is. That's where Norman Bates lives. He's the most disturbed human of all time. So in the movie, of course, there was the mother character who is sort of referenced throughout the movie. And it is not until the end that you realize that there is no mother. Mother's dead.

There's just Norman Bates and all his rage and hang ups. Yeah. So all the monster movies about giant ants and or the creature from the Black Lagoon, monsters, things that were in other that a normal person had to do battle with, that was gone. Now the monster had been on screen the whole time and you had noticed it. And now what do you think about your neighbor who has seemed a little weird from time to time before? Could he be a murderer who thinks he's his mother?

Who knows? Yeah. This is what Hitchcock did to everybody back in 1960. And you almost get like, I think Owen Gliberman points it out. Yeah, he does at the beginning. He basically says like, we probably didn't see psycho. If you're reading this, you're probably too young to have seen psycho in 1960. And we should all feel sad that we didn't.

Because it's so changed everything that we can't do anything but take it for granted now. And everything that's come since then has been trying to regain that shock and horror that it instilled in audiences. And thus far, no one's actually been able to do it. Yeah. And the other thing I remember when I saw it, when I was younger, I think I saw this when I was like 14-ish. And I think it had this impact on just about everyone. I don't think I took a shower for a month.

I was straight up bathtub, curtain open, doors open, windows open. Making your mom watch? She's keeping watch? No, that would have been full circle back to cycle again. Oh yeah, I guess so, yeah. You didn't even want to have anything to do with your mom. No, man, like it changed the shower curtain industry for a while after that. Yeah, I'll bet.

It's a very good movie. And there were a couple of Hitchcock movies in the last few years. Two different ones. One with Anthony Hopkins and one with Toby Jones. They were both really good. And one was about the years that he was making psycho. The other was about the years when he was making the birds. And they were both really, really good movies.

And you should check those out too. You should repeat that. We just got a rare interjection from Noel. So go ahead and say it again, Josh, in case it didn't come through. So Noel just said that the director of the Black Coat's daughter is Anthony Perkins, who played Norman Bates in Psycho's Son. Wow. He also did another movie now that Noel says that.

Thanks, Noel. It's called The Pretty Little Thing That Lives in the House, which was another horror movie, a ghost story. I think that was his first one. And I think that might be on Netflix. It's great. It's a really great movie too. Man, this has got me fired up to see some horror movies.

It's a renaissance of horror. Yeah. It's tough though, because Emily doesn't really dig it. So I have to just find a alone time to do this. Good to watch it in the bathroom. All right. Well, if you want to know more about horror movies, go watch horror movies. Go forth and let us know what we missed for God's sake.

Yeah. If you want to check out Grabster's list, type in horror movies on the searchbar at HouseOfWorks.com, and it'll bring up this fine, fine list that you'll disagree with. Since I said disagree, it's time for Listener Mail. This is from Eric, and I'm going to call it what he called it, a schoolhouse rock nostalgia theory. All right. I think he's pretty right on.

This just came in, actually. This is a hot take. Hey, guys, in schoolhouse rock. So Josh made the statement that Gen Xers are most nostalgic generation, and attribute it to the success of schoolhouse rock. I'm going to offer my own theory. I propose that Gen X is nostalgic, mostly for pop culture because of the proliferate, that word, of child-targeted advertisements and marketing in the 70s and 80s.

Huh, maybe. It's certainly something we've talked about. This theory's got legs. While our little impressionable brains were developing, we were being taught by those who were steering pop culture to long for and find fulfillment in the toys and other products, our cartoons were pushing on us. Now as adults, those messages are still deep in our psyche,

and we can't shake the idea that we still really need those Star Wars action figures to be happy. Not because the toys and the shows were so great, but because we had been tricked into believing we need them. I have nothing scientific to back this up. Just a hunch. Yeah, what? You mean there hasn't been a study from MIT on Star Wars toys? I'm kind of surprised by that as well.

I thought you were being facetious at first, and then it just took a turn. Yeah, I don't know which way's up at this point. Nothing scientific to back this up, but I'd love to hear what you all think. See if anyone out there is any respectable and informed input, love what you guys do. I love you, Eric. That is from Eric Lewin, and Eric, I think that's super valid.

Yeah, I do too, Eric. I think you've really hit upon something here. And that's all I have to say about it. If you have a great theory, fan theory, real life theory, whatever, we want to hear them, especially if it's interesting. You can tweet to us at S-Y-S-K podcast. You can send us an email at stuffpodcast.howstuffworks.com, and as always, join us at our home on the web, stuffyoushouldknow.com.

Stuff You Should Know is a production of iHeart Radio. For more podcasts on my heart radio, visit the iHeart Radio app. Apple podcasts are wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Hey, I'm Lance Bass, host of the new iHeart podcast, Frosted Tips with Lance Bass. Do you ever think to yourself, what advice would Lance Bass and my favorite boy bands give me in this situation? If you do, you've come to the right place because I'm here to help. And a different hot, sexy teen crush boy bander each week to guide you through life.

Tell everybody, yeah, everybody, about my new podcast and make sure to listen, so we'll never, ever have to say bye-bye-bye. Listen to Frosted Tips with Lance Bass on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to podcasts. I'm Munga Shatikler, and it turns out astrology is way more widespread than any of us want to believe. You can find it in Major League Baseball, international banks, K-pop groups, even the White House. But just when I thought I had a handle on this subject,

something completely unbelievable happened to me and my whole view on astrology changed. Whether you're a skeptic or a believer, give me a few minutes because I think your ideas are about to change too. Listen to Skyline Drive on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.