Stuff You Should Know - Selects: Rosa Parks: Agent of Change

Episode Date: September 28, 2024

Rosa Parks finishes out our Black History Month episodes in grand fashion. While most know her from that fateful day on the Montgomery city bus, she actually had a long life as an advocate, protestor and agent of change. Join us via this classic episode as we celebrate one of America's great history makers.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Hi everybody, Chuck here. I hope you're all having some cereal or toaster pastries or maybe a bagel, maybe an egg sandwich, maybe some overnight oats, maybe some bacon, maybe some back bacon. Maybe it depends on where you are in the world, what kind of bacon you're eating. Cause we all call it bacon and it means a different thing wherever you are. At any rate, I hope you're enjoying some breakfast and you should listen to this

episode while you eat breakfast from February 22nd, 2018, Rosa Parks, colon agent of change, what a great woman in American history. Colin, agent of change. What a great woman in American history. Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's Charles W. Chuck Bryant. There's Jerry over there. So it's Stuff You Should Know, the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's Charles W. Chuck Bryant. There's Jerry over

there. So it's stuff you should know. The podcast. Clean studio version. I know. It feels a little weird in here. Like it's too good for us or something. You know what I mean? Yeah. Just so you folks know, Jerry tests a couple of the editor engineers here with coming in and cleaning up the pile of spaghetti that used to flow from the back of her workstation. Not that it was Jerry's fault and she said, clean up my mess.

Well, she clapped twice in rapid succession. They know what that means. Right. The whole office. I mean, snap to it. Looks good though. It does. But now we actually have room to put stuff.

So we should put some stuff in here. I agree. It's a little bear. A papazan right there. That'd be nice. I don't know. Well, we could put a small papazan. Most people don't realize, but this place is lousy with Ikea lamps.

I mean everywhere and the cheapest ones. Like one of them is on fire right now. Yeah, that one. Oh, yeah smoldering smoldering still fire Chuck Speaking of fire. Yes, you want to know somebody who had some fire in her? More than most people realize yeah Rosa Parks Yeah, who is now one of my all-time heroes Because before the Rosa Parks I knew,

again, it was like the Harriet Tubman episode. Learned about her in school. She was a great American. Respect her, revere her. Here's why she didn't give up her seat on the bus. No. Like, not only is that like just the tip of the iceberg, it wasn't until about the last five or so years, I think, no, about last

four years, they're like a full picture of this woman and who she was and like what she stood for and what drove her emerged not just to the public in general, but to historians even because their personal papers were basically held up in auction for years and years and years. And now, now that they've been Donated for ten like ten years to the Library of Congress. Yeah, we're starting to get a clear picture of her and she was even more Worth revering than than people knew before. Yeah. I mean I think the What the story isn't is Rosa Parks was just a quiet lady who was super tired on the bus one day, so she didn't

want to get up. Her dogs were yapping. Yeah, not true. And she even makes a point in her personal paper saying, I was 42 years old. I was no more tired than I was after any day at work. But what I was tired of was being told to get up by a white bus driver to make room for a white passenger. Right. I was not, my being told to get up by a white bus driver to make room for a white passenger. Right.

I was not, my dogs weren't barking. Right. So she, she, I think one of the reasons why she was kind of whittled down into this, this woman who was just tired and wasn't going to give up her seat because she shouldn't have had to in the first place. And then she was a very meek, quiet person also is another way that she was drawn. I think one of the reasons why she was whittled into that package was because she became an icon for the civil rights movement. And one of the things that the civil rights movement

had to do for better or worse was to get the establishment, both white and black on the side of the civil rights movement, which was a movement of agitation. And if you agitated at the time, this is the Jim Crow era, that meant trouble. This wasn't like just trouble like people are going to yell at you on Twitter. This was trouble like the cops might arrest you for some made up infraction and then beat and rape you on Twitter, this is trouble like the cops might arrest you for some made up infraction and then beat and rape you on the way to the jail and then you would end up in the prison system kind of trouble. Like this is the kind of trouble that a woman who refused to give up her seat on the bus

faced at this time. So the idea of taking a woman who was, I guess, palatable to as many people as possible and saying, look at this woman, we need to protect this woman's rights and do what's right. I think that's why she got kind of whittled down into that. But if you were looking back now, historically, there was so much more to her than just that. And she was certainly not meek and mild. Yeah, I mean, distilling the story down for school books is one thing, but I'm glad now that people can get a more robust picture.

Yeah. So a lot of this comes from a website called greatblackheroes.com. Had a really good lengthy article. And then also, I want to shout out a book series called Little People, Big Dreams. And it's a kids book series that we've been reading to my daughter. In fact, it's kind of all she wants to read right now.

And they are on Great Women in History and kind of brutally honest for to be reading to kids. But they didn't, it's kind of cool. They didn't whitewash anything. It's sort of like Maya Angelo was not treated well by white people. Like you read that to your kid. And Rosa Parks is one. And then there's Frida Kahlo, Coco Chanel, Amelia Earhart, Mary Curie, Agatha Christie, and more. But, um, But it's pretty brutal. Like they draw Amelia Earhart's skeleton on the beach kind of brutal. You know what? That's the only one we haven't gotten to yet because every night it's, it's pretty brutal, like they draw Amelia Earhart's skeleton on the beach, kind of brutal.

You know what? That's the only one we haven't gotten to yet because every night it's read Frida, read Frida. Oh, really? But it's literally like Frida Kahlo is lying in the street after she gets hit by a taxi and she's bloody and her legs don't work again after that. So I mean, it's pretty brutal stuff, but I don't know, it's kind of cool. Like kids can read the stuff and digest it, I think.

Sure. It's a good way to begin them on the path toward true stories. And to sharpen them to like a razor's edge at a young age, you know. Look out for taxis. Yeah, that's good. That's good advice at any age. All right. So Rosa Parks, let's go back to where she was born in Tuskegee, Alabama on February 4th, 1913. She was born Rosa Louise McCauley to James and Lenora McCauley, who were a carpenter

and school teacher respectively. Matthew F. Larson Right. Her parents split, I guess she, I don't know how old she was. I guess she was younger than six, but her father went to go look for work up north and her mom wanted to stay in the south So she and her mom and her brother moved in with her mother's parents her grandparents and her grandfather played a really Distinct role in shaping her because she moved in with them when she was like I said around six Yeah, and at the time in this place Pine Level, which is outside of Montgomery, Alabama, there was a lot of clan violence, a lot of violence against blacks at the hands of the Ku Klux

Klan. Her grandfather was not having it. He was actually the son of a slave woman and slave owner. So he was, I believe, half white. He was a slave himself. He had an owner at a young age who really brutally mistreated him, tried to starve him for a little bit. And her grandfather developed what she called a very intense, passionate hatred for white

people and definitely imparted that to his daughters and his granddaughter, grandchildren, wouldn't let his grandchildren play with white kids, didn't let his daughters work for white families. He was very much, and it sounds like pretty well founded, against white people. And definitely some of that rubbed off on Rosa. At the very least, her eyes were opened to just how unjust the system was at the time when she was growing up. Well, yeah, and just it wasn't even just through his eyes. Like she went to a segregated school that she had to walk to.

White students were picked up and bused to the school. She went to an elementary school called the Montgomery Industrial School for Girls, a very cool school. She went to an elementary school called the Montgomery Industrial School for Girls, a very cool school. It was created by some northern white northerners to basically try and foster education in these more rural black communities in the south. And that didn't go over well. Educating kids. So that school was burned down twice and then coupled that with all the you know influence from her grandfather and it's No surprise that Rosa Parks from a very very early age was it was an activist. Yeah So and being an activist we're talking like from age six onward, right? So She dropped out of school which would have been a huge turning point.

She had to take care of her grandmother and then I think her mom later on because they both fell ill. And she met I think at age 17 or 18 and then later on at age 19 married her husband Raymond Parks and he encouraged her to go back and finish school and she did. It was a huge move because she was very much meant to be an educated person. So the fact that she met Raymond was a huge influence in that respect. He was also a big influence on her because she said that he was the first activist, like

real activist that she ever met. And I believe this was even before the NAACP was in town. This guy was like a grassroots activist. And he and his group were basically armed. Do you remember in the Black Panthers episode where like the whole idea of arming yourself came out of the South? Yeah. So this guy was like Raymond Parks was one of the real deal people who originated that. And he and the group of activists that he met with, they would all come to the house

and everyone would have a gun. And apparently Rosa Parks said sometimes there were so many guns on the table that she didn't have any place to set the refreshments during these meetings. But these meetings weren't like, you know, how are we going to get white people back? It was how are we going to protect like the Scottsboro Boys from false rape accusations? He was an early pre NAACP activist in Montgomery. Yeah, and later on was a member of the NAACP. We should do a show on the Scottsboro Boys at some point. It's too much to get into here, but the short version is a group of black men on a train

were accused of rape by two white women who just made up the story, basically. They went to trial a few times and, well, you know what? We'll save the outcome. Okay. Because there are all kinds of outcomes because I went to trial so many times. So she did finish high school and she became involved along with her husband in the Montgomery chapter of the NAACP and worked as their secretary for 14 years. So not only was she an activist, but she was involved in service of these organizations.

She worked for them. Whatever you need done, I will do. And anyone who's ever volunteered knows that, I guess, foot soldiers, for lack of a better term, are some of the most important people to, like in the Black Panthers episode, when the women didn't get nearly the recognition they should have gotten right for just keeping that organization running on time so she but she was more than a volunteer though she had some really some jobs with some real gravity like she was a an investigator of sexual assault of black women by white men which is a very dangerous thing to do because you're going to interview witnesses

to crimes that aren't being prosecuted because they're perpetrated by white people. She was a justice for prisoner advocate. She did a lot of really important stuff. And as she was doing this stuff as the secretary for the local NAACP, she was also making contacts that would later become really important in this nascent civil rights movement that largely grew out of the Montgomery bus boycott we're going to talk about. I had no idea how big of an event it was. I knew it was big, but I didn't realize how far reaching the effects of it were.

Oh yeah. And this, another kind of important thing happened to her as far as integration goes is she got a job-type job at Maxwell Air Force Base for a little while, which because it was a federal institution, was integrated. And this was the first time that she had worked in a professional integrated atmosphere. And that along with the Highlander Folk School, which is maybe we should do a show on that too. In 1955 she went to a meeting, a workshop at the Highlander Folk School and this is in the hills of Tennessee. And it is still open today as the Highlander Folk School and this is in the hills of Tennessee. And it is still open today as the Highlander Research and Education Center, not in that original building. But it was

just this great folk school where they prepared kids for activism, workers, tried to get people involved in civil rights. And she actually got sponsored by the white couple that she worked for to go to these meetings in Mont Eagle, Tennessee. So, and that Maxwell Air Force base you mentioned, one of the things she later said, I think they found in her papers, was a description of like, because it was an integrated base, the bus service on base was integrated as well. Yeah. So she would be riding next to like a white friend on the bus on base, and then once they would get off of the bus on base and get onto a city bus they would have to stop their conversation and get into the different sections the white section in the colored section and that was just the reality of it.

that she made a conscious decision to never normalize that. To not be like, well, that's just how it is. That's just life. That she would never let herself do that. Instead it was, this is messed up. This has to be changed. She was able to get through her day with this knowledge, but she was never like, this is normal or this is okay.

Yeah. I mean, she said it required, I think the quote was a lot of mental gymnastics just to survive day to day as a black person in America. So in other words, yeah, not accept it and do everything I can to wrap my head around what I can do moving forward. Right. Should we take a break? Yeah, man. I think so. All right. Take a break and we'll come back and we will start on December 1st 1955, very important day. Hey, it's Jay Shetty and welcome to On Purpose. I started this podcast to have

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Listen to In Our Own World as a part of the MyCultura Podcast Network available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And don't worry, we promise to avoid any black holes. Most of the time. All right. So it's December 1st, 1955. Rosa Parks is working as a seamstress at the time at a department store. She gets off work like she does every day and boards bus 2857 Cleveland Avenue bus at about six o'clock. And here's the deal with the buses at the time is there were a certain amount of rows set aside for white people.

And then there was a sign that said, you know, black people or they probably said colored people back then can sit from here back. But that sign could move. So as more white people get on the bus, the bus driver gets up and moves that sign back and says, all right, black folks, you got to get up, get out of your seats, because now the white section is here. And just keep doing that until essentially the entire bus could be full of white people. And they just say, sorry, you all have to get off. Right. Yeah, you either have to get off. Right. Yeah.

You either had to get up and move your seat. If there were not seats left, you had to stand. If there was no standing room, you had to get off the bus, right? And then if the bus you were getting on, if you were African American, if the white section was already full, you had to get into the front of the bus, pay, get off of the bus and get onto that back door. You couldn't even walk through the white section. Right.

And then you, you know, you could take your seat in the colored section. So there was a lot going on here. At least half of this law was unwritten custom, right? The local ordinance in Montgomery, Alabama said that buses had to be segregated. There was a white section and there was a colored section, they put it, right? All that stuff about moving the sign, about getting up and having to leave the bus if there wasn't any standing room for you if more white people came on. All of that was just customary.

That was not law. That was not the local ordinance, but it was so practiced on a daily basis that it might as well have been the law. For sure. And that's really all that matters is if everyone was playing ball, that's what was going to happen. Yeah, because the courts would even prosecute as if you had broken the law, if you had not actually broken the law, but it broken this custom.

So yeah, for all intents and purposes, it was the law. Matthew F. Hichersky So the driver of that bus was one James Blake, and Rosa had, well, she had a long memory, and a previous incident with Mr. Blake, 12 years previous. In 1943, she had paid her fare, and like you were talking about with the fact that they couldn't even walk through the white section, he said, you got to get off the bus, go around to the back, force her. Well, she had already gotten on and said, no, you got to re-enter on the rear. She got out and he was like, psych, close the door and drove off with her bus fare.

Right. Yeah. She had already paid. Yeah. That was the 1943 incident. And she remembered 12 years later who James Blake was. I would probably not forget that bus driver or so on on this day she got on and

she took her seat in the colored section and When she sat down again, she was behind the sign and I guess after a couple of stops and think about this man imagine riding the bus And say you have like seven stops think about that pit that would be in your stomach on a daily basis Like am I gonna have to get up right? We're gonna have to be humiliated I'm gonna have to give up my seat to a white person because even if Somebody who was told that they had to get up because a white person needed to sit there

Even if they just kind of quietly complied, that doesn't get the point across how they were feeling right then. Anybody would be humiliated by that. I read that one of the reasons why buses, not just in Montgomery but throughout the segregated South, they were kind of flashpoints because people were in such close quarters. The racism was right up in your face in front of a bunch of other people. So the humiliation was even more pronounced, right? So Rosa Parks gets on the bus, she takes her seat in the colored section, and after a few

stops some white people got on and the driver, James Blake, said that it was time for them to move, that these white people needed a seat, and he was moving the sign back at least one row. Yeah. So at this point, there's one white dude left without a seat. So as is custom, he made four black folks get out of their two seats on that row. Everyone had to move back because there had to be a whole new white row just for this one guy. Three of the passengers got up and moved. Rosa Parks just slid over to the window seat and sat there and he said, are you going to

get up? And she said, no, I'm not. He said, well, if you don't stand up, I'm going to have to call the police and have you arrested. And she said, you may do that. I know, man. I mean, just so brave. And so the police did come. She was arrested. She was booked, charged with disorderly conduct and bailed out by Clifford Durr and Edgar Nixon, who were the local president of the chapter of the NAACP at the time. Matthew F. Kennedy, Ph.D. Right. So… Matthew F. Kennedy, Ph. Right. So, um...

So she's out, at least, temporarily. Yeah, the next evening. So she spent the night in jail. I don't... I didn't run across any statements or any kind of evidence that she was, like, physically mistreated or verbally abused by the police. But that seems to be unusual for people who were arrested for not giving up their seats on the bus.

Matthew Feeney What, that she was not mistreated? Matthew Feeney Right. Matthew Feeney Yeah, I mean, I'm sure they didn't throw out the welcome mat. Matthew Feeney No. Matthew Feeney No. Matthew Feeney No, but this is actually, this is noteworthy here. Do you want to talk about how she was not the first person that year, not the first

woman to have been arrested for not giving up her seat on the bus? Yeah, sure. This is something I didn't realize, and I think a lot of people didn't realize this, but there were at least two other women in Montgomery who were arrested that same year. One was Claudette Colvin. She was 15 at the time. Yeah, wasn't she pregnant too?

She got pregnant afterward. Okay. But she was 15 and she in March was arrested for not giving up her seat on the bus. She said at the time she was scared to death, but she felt on one side sojourner truth was holding her down and on the other side Harriet Tubman was holding her down and she was not about to get up. So they took her off the bus and arrested her and apparently she was ridiculed and treated rather roughly. There was another woman, her name was Mary Louise Smith. I believe she was 18 at the time. She had been arrested like in October for the same thing. I didn't get the impression

that she was necessarily treated roughly. But Rosa Parks, when she was arrested, from what I can tell, she was treated like the, with the respect that would be afforded to a middle class black woman at the time in Montgomery, Alabama, which is to say with maybe the slightest measure of respect, which is to say she wasn't beaten on the way to jail. There's a book by the way called Claudette Colvin colon twice toward justice from Phil who's or hoose and I think a lot of people these days are trying to shine a little light on Some of the lesser-known figures of the civil rights movement and books are being written and stuff like that

Which is pretty awesome and she she was asked Claudette Colvin was asked like why why does she think? which is pretty awesome. And she was asked, Claudette Colvin was asked like why does she think it was Rosa Parks and not her? And she had a whole list of reasons and all of them are pretty legitimate that you know Rosa Parks was a very, again, a palatable person to a large swath of people. And more to the point, she was also 15 and the NAACP didn't think that a 15 year old was going to be the most reliable icon to kind of project into the national forefront.

Yeah, not to say that a lot of people have said over the years that it was staged. So because they set Rosa Parks up, not set her up, but they picked her to do this because she was palatable. They staged this whole thing to make, which would have been fine if that's the way you want to kickstart the bus boycott. But from all accounts, it was an in the moment decision. She said, I didn't know that I was going to get arrested and I was going to sit down. It's just something that happened.

Matthew F. Ligato, Ph.D. And so on the one hand, the people who say that, no, this was staged, the NAACP, and even before the NAACP was around, buses had been like a target of black activists in Montgomery in particular for decades. I think the first bus boycott was in 1900, and it wasn't even a bus, it was a trolley line as well as boycotted. So she, and having already been the secretary of the NAACP and an activist herself for years by then, she must have been fully aware of the potential outcome, which proved to be the actual outcome from her arrest for not giving up her seat. But the idea of saying that this was all staged, it does a couple of things.

It's almost like a casually racist way of just kind of diminishing it, because it couple of things. It's almost like a casually racist way of just kind of diminishing it, because it does two things. One, it takes away her bravery, because if it was staged, to make her own decision. She has support the whole time, it would have taken away a measure of fear.

And then secondly, it also makes the NAACP look kind of sneaky, like they're socially engineering stuff, and then pretending like that's not the case. So I think by saying like, no, this was staged, it really undermines the reality of the situation, which is that this brave woman said she'd had enough. Yeah. And you're right. It probably occurred to her the ramifications of this, but I bet you anything in the moment.

She was just like, nope, not getting up. That's what I understand. That's what she's always said. Yeah. So here's what happened from there. She was arrested, like I said, she gets out on bail. Over that weekend, a bunch of churches got together and they started talking boycott on the, when her trial comes around. There's a group called the Women's Political Council, and they handed out 35,000 handbills that basically said, please, children, grownups, don't ride the bus at all on Monday. Please stay off the buses on Monday.

Let's really try and make a difference here because it was, I think at the time, black people made up 75% of the passengers. Yeah. So it could have a real impact on like the finances of the bus company. Yeah. And it just started out as a boycott for one day for the Monday following Rosa Parks arrest, which was the happened on a Thursday.

And they were just going to do it for one day, but the success of it was so surprising. I think they were hoping for like 50% reduction. It turned out, I saw both 90 and 99% reduction in ridership by African Americans that day. Right. If they make up 75%... That's a big loss. Yeah. For the city bus line, right? For sure.

So it was such a success that they said, well, let's maybe let's keep this going and see what we can do with this. Because initially the demands of the Montgomery bus boycott of 1955 was that one of them was black black riders be treated with courtesy. Yeah. Pretty low hanging request. Another one was that the seats be given on a first come, first serve basis, which was the law,

and that black people sit from back to front, white people sit from front to back. So they were still saying like, we can keep the segregation, but people shouldn't have to give up their seats. And then the last one was they wanted black bus drivers to be hired to drive the predominantly African-American routes.

So that you didn't have to deal with an armed white bus driver. Because they were armed and they had basically police powers to enforce segregation on the bus. So the original boycott thing, their demands were not extraordinarily radical. And when the boycott was a success on that first Monday, they decided to extend it and they also decided maybe they should expand their demands a little more. Matthew F. Hichers-Long, MPH, CHES, CHES, and so on. So while all this is going on, she was found guilty on that Monday. She was fined $10 plus court costs of $4 for

$14 total and said, nope, I'm going to appeal this conviction. She challenged that basically what she was challenging was segregation in general, not being constitutional. And that ended up being the argument that was, well, we'll get to the court case and how it escalated. But she was found guilty. And the other notable thing that happened was one Ralph David Abernathy and Dr. Martin Luther King, who was a young minister in town of Dexter Avenue Baptist, he was elected president of what was called the MIA, the Montgomery Improvement Association,

which they formed because of the success of the boycott. So you have this new organization. Then about a month later, month and a half at the end of January, Martin Luther King's home was bombed. Everyone was unharmed in the incident, but it really ramped up the stakes of what was going on. Yeah, well, for sure. And apparently the Montgomery Improvement Association is credited with making the boycott

successful and the way that they made it successful was through a carpool they set up. They bought a bunch of station wagons and put them in the name of some of the black churches in town. And these station wagons would basically recreate the bus routes. They drove predetermined routes and they were giving like 20,000 people a ride every day. That's how successful this was. And they put such a crimp in the the finances of the city bus line that a couple of things happened. One, they had to lay off workers, close down lines, raise their fares. Like it really hurt the city bus lines. And then secondly, the city, and I believe maybe even the state, sued the Montgomery

Improvement Association for this boycott, which is apparently illegal under a 1921 Alabama law. Yeah, they sued against the car service specifically, saying that the bus company had an exclusive franchise. Right. And they did get an injunction in November of 1956. But all of this comes out of the fact that in like 30 something years earlier in 1921, Alabama passed an anti-boycott act, which basically said that it's illegal for you to not ride the bus in this case.

In that case, sure. Or at least organize people and get them to not ride the bus. Yeah. It was something like it was a misdemeanor to organize against somebody carrying out lawful business or whatever. So they were getting them on two things, the boycott and then infringing on the bus lines franchise in that city, right? Right.

So what do you do if you are suing or I'm sorry, if you have an anti-boycott act, I mean, you can't arrest everyone. So they go after I think 89, Martin Luther King Jr. and 89 other members of the MIA. And obviously, because they're the most, I think how many of them? 24 of them were ministers. They're the most prominent members and he was fined 500 bucks and spent a couple weeks in jail. Yeah, he said he's very proud of his crime. Should be. Yeah, sure.

So now Martin Luther King is appealing. So you've got a few things going on here. You've got Rosa Parks, who has been convicted and now is appealing her $10 plus $4 in court costs fine for breaking the city ordinance, even though she didn't. You've got Martin Luther King now, who is appealing his $500 fine for the boycott and the infringing on the bus Lines franchise. And then you have something else. You have a class action suit called Browder versus Gale. It was named after, oh, what's her name?

The woman who's the lead plaintiff in the case. Her name is Aurelia S. Browder and the Gail in the case was the Montgomery Mayor, I think William Gail. And we'll talk about that. Well, let's take a break and we'll talk about this case and we'll come back to the drumbeat of the court system starting to kick in. Hey, it's Jay Shetty and welcome to On Purpose. I started this podcast to have real conversations that help you live with more meaning, whether it's navigating relationships, working on your mental health or figuring out what you're

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I felt in control of my own physical body and my own self. I was on birth control. I had sort of had my first sexual experience. If you're in your Senora era or know someone who is, then this is the show for you. We're your hosts, Diossa and Mala, and you might recognize us from our flagship podcast, Locatora Radio. We're so excited for you to hear our brand new podcast, Señora Sex Ed. Listen to Señora Sex Ed on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. All right, so appeals run slow anyway, but in the South, if it's a case like this, it's going to go super slow because the hope from the white establishment is, you know, maybe enough time will go by and these people will just sort of get in line and forget about

it, get tired of this boycott, and everything will just go back to normal. Yeah, which is kind of a gamble because this boycott was not showing any signs of cracking. So they were basically making that bet on the back of the city bus line and on the jobs of the drivers who were being laid off because ridership was down so low. 381 days. 381 days, right. For the boycott. So, like I said, the drum beat of the court system was starting to grow a little bit louder.

And you had three big cases, Martin Luther King's case, Rosa Parks' case, and you had Browder versus Gale. And Browder versus Gale represented four women, originally five, but four women who had been convicted of breaking the law for not giving up their seat on the bus in Montgomery. One of them was Claudette Colvin. Another was Mary Louise Smith, I believe. And then Aurelia Browder. And then lastly was...

Matthew Feeney-Spanish Susie McDonald. Matthew Feeney-Spanish Susie McDonald, right? So these four women got together and sued the mayor, the bus line, a few bus drivers, the City Public Works Commission, just a big group of people. And they were suing to, all three of those cases were suing the question, the constitutionality and the legality of segregation in general, but specifically on the bus lines. And there was a talk at first by Freddie Gray, who was the lead lawyer in the Browder v. Gale, that of including Rosa Parks. But he very, very wisely kept her separate from that case

because he said he wanted the courts to just consider one thing, not whether Rosa Parks is guilty or not, but whether the segregation on the Montgomery buses was was legal and constitutional. So he kept those separate very very smartly. Yeah, I think he knew that he could get this to the Supreme Court this way. It was a test case. And that was his ultimate goal. Because it was a state statute though, and the state constitution of Alabama, it was of course first brought before district court.

Three judges in US district court on June 5th, 1956, they ruled two to one, that segregation was unconstitutional. Of course, they cited Brown versus Board of Education as precedent. And it eventually wound its way to the Supreme Court in 1956 on December 17th. Actually, that was pretty quick considering. And they rejected all appeals and voted nine to nothing, nine to zero, that it was unconstitutional. Yep. Nine to nothing. Which is, I mean, that's really saying something. Unanimous Supreme Court decision regarding segregation. Yeah. In the 1950s.

So that was huge. I think Dr. King was in court that day when he was told by a reporter about that decision, the Supreme Court decision. And even after he said, we're keeping up the boycott because when they implement this desegregation on the buses, we'll stop the boycott. And after the Supreme Court ruling came through, the city of Montgomery saw pretty clearly that there wasn't any way to keep this up any longer. And I believe within three days, the buses were desegregated.

And on the first day that they were desegregated, Rosa Parks took her seat on a bus in the front row, I believe. Matthew Feeney Yeah, they hired black bus drivers. And this is after, by the way, 381 days of a total sales loss of 65%. So, um... Yeah, and on the other side, Ralph David Abernathy's home was bombed, Martin Luther King's home was bombed, people were in jail, people were in court. It was a big struggle down in Montgomery.

Yeah. So, on December 21st, Dr. King and his white friend, Reverend Glenn Smiley sat together on the front row with Ralph David Abernathy, street here in Atlanta, named for him. Edie Dixon and Fred Gray, the attorney that saw that case. Right. So that was a huge thing. It did a number of things. It made Rosa Parks an icon.

It projected Martin Luther King into the national spotlight. That was basically where he first found national fame. Basically, it was like, well, this guy's the leader of the Civil Rights Movement now. It also was a huge domino in the idea of desegregation in general, not just on buses, not just in Montgomery, but the concept, it followed in the wake of Plessy v. Ferguson, which was just one of those court cases that said separate facilities is inherently racist, because the only reason you would have separate facilities is because you think one group is superior over the other

and they shouldn't have to consort or mix. That's inherently unconstitutional. This is one of those dominoes that fell in that chain that led to desegregation across the Jim Crow South. And like a laser, this particular case and the changes it brought were focused right onto Rosa Parks, her act, her courage, what she did. Yeah. And this was, this was within our parents' lifetime. I know.

I was wondering, I was like, why am I so much more jazzed about this than Harriet Tubman? I love Harriet Tubman's story. But I remember when I was researching, I wasn't nearly as jazzed. And I realized, like, I can relate to this woman so much better just because this is pretty recent, you know? Well, yeah. And just the notion that where we are as a country now racially, this was not that long ago. So for the people in the camp of saying just just get over things, African Americans, just get over things. It's like, this was not hundreds and hundreds of years ago.

This was very recently. My peers' parents had to live through this. Well, one thing Rosa Parks is now known for, what they didn't realize before, is her act in the civil rights movement that grew out of her like the next 10 years 15 years there's this idea that around 1970 there was a button put on that and it was like you guys were successful way to go we can stop doing this now Rosa Parks is like no no, it's not done. This hasn't changed up until she died in 2005 She was like the struggle

still continuing. People didn't realize that about her until this collection was opened. Yeah, she, this all came, there was significant cost to her family, to her, her husband. Her and her husband both suffered through stomach ulcers because of this. They lost their jobs. Eventually they left Alabama, said, and let's go to Virginia. And Virginia wasn't a whole lot better. They said, all right, let's go to Detroit. Kept going north. And then finally, after not having a job for a long time, she was hired as secretary for John Conyers, a brand new, brand newly elected black congressman

who she would work for for 23 years. And Mr. Conyers, you know, he was the one who stepped down last year after sexual assault allegations after serving many, many years in Congress and was a civil rights icon. So it's kind of a very sad ending to that story. But Rosa worked for him in 77. Her husband James died of cancer. Her brother died of cancer three months later. Her mom died two years after that. But I get the sense that after that, it really kind of freed her to really go back to work and devote herself once again to the cause.

Right. Because after those family members passed away, she established the Rosa Parks Scholarship Foundation, and the Rosa and Raymond Parks Institute for Self-Development, and wrote two memoirs. Yeah. She was busy. She was. And then very sadly, I know, I remember this, in 1994, when she was home invaded and sadly. I know I remember this in 1994

When she was home invaded and robbed you have I hit over the head by a guy named Joseph skipper Yeah, man, that was just like I mean For kidding me with that for 58 bucks of all the houses to accidentally break into yeah What do you think you knew it was Rosa Parks? I don't know. I don't know, but he- I've seen nothing to indicate that that was true. He knew that he would go down as the man who robbed and beat Rosa Parks. Oh, well, yeah.

So yeah, I don't think she was targeted because she was Rosa Parks or anything like that I think she's just a little lady The impression I have is it doesn't matter if she was Rosa Parks or not sure, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah, so she that was 94 you said and then like right afterward. There was a huge national outcry and she Moved into like a very secure high-rise. Yeah in Detroit where she lived until she died in 2005 I believe she died in that apartment 92 years young She had a slew of honors unprecedented honors in this country

She was transported her body to Washington DC And she laid an honor under the rotunda the US Capitol first woman Yep to get that honor the second African American and the first non-government American ever to have this honor. Yep I mean that is a high honor. Yeah when she died every flag on public land in the United States and Around the world was flown at half mast, which is pretty great too. Yeah.

George W. Bush made sure that happened. And then here's just some of her lifetime achievement awards. NAACP gave her what's called the Spingarn Medal in 1979, their highest honor. She's in the Michigan Women's Hall of Fame, Martin Luther King Jr. Award in 1980. You could have just stopped at the Michigan Hall of Fame. Michigan Women's Hall of Fame? Yeah. The Presidential Medal of Freedom in 1996. Yeah, still. Michigan Women's Hall of Fame. Congressional Gold Medal? No? Now we're in a contest.

Time Magazine named her as one of the 20 most influential and iconic figures of the 20th century. It's a big one. Okay And then yeah, he mentioned George W. Bush Ordered half-mass flags in 2005. So again, there was this this idea that she was just a tired little old lady who Was quietly brave and didn't give up her seat and she was kind of meek and quiet. And in 2014, her personal collection, the Rosa Parks collection was sold to the Howard Buffett Foundation, Warren Buffett's son. They bought it for a song at like four and a half million dollars.

And it's something like I think 6,500 documents and 2,500 photographs. And it is her personal papers, like notes for speeches, notes for her books, I believe, correspondence, and it paints this picture that no one had of her before, which was no, like this lady was an activist through and through her whole life. She was an activist who wanted to talk about and agitate for the rights of black Americans and how messed up the situation was that they lived in and that she wouldn't normalize this. She would learn to deal with it as much as she needed to while she was working to change it. And there was a surprise to a lot of people when they cracked open these papers and found

that picture of her. Yeah. Also want to shout out article, How History Got the Rosa Parks Story Wrong. And this was written by the same person who wrote the award-winning book, The Rebellious Life of Mrs. Rosa Parks. Her name is Jean Theo Harris. Theo Harris. It's all one word. Matthew McLaughlin Yeah, I know.

Matthew O'Reilly It sounds like it should be hyphenated. Matthew McLaughlin It's really easy to say, but how do you say it? Matthew O'Reilly I have no idea. Matthew McLaughlin I know. Matthew O'Reilly But she's a professor of polysci at Brooklyn College of CUNY. Matthew McLaughlin Yep.

Matthew O'Reilly Man. Matthew McLaughlin Great lady. Matthew O'Reilly Yep. Brooklyn College of CUNY. Man. Great lady. Yep. So if you want to know more about Rosa Parks, go out on the internet, educate yourself. I still haven't seen that movie. Have you seen that? No.

About the bus boycott? No. I mean, it was a significant event. I had no idea. Okay. Well, I think I said go search stuff in there somewhere, so it means it's time for listener mail. I'm gonna call this, uh, oh, Tiny Things. Alright.

Hey guys, let me start off by saying I enjoyed the podcast very much. Fine. Aside from being interesting and entertaining, it very much helps my time in the car. We get that a lot. Sure. Commute helped. People would go insane if it weren't for us. Several episodes ago, I believe Chuck mentioned that you love tiny things. I do.

Josh likes things that are grossly oversized. That giant pocket watch over there. Yeah. It's kind of a pain. I'm wearing it like Flava Flav. He mentioned loving tiny things. There's kind of a pain. I'm wearing it like Flava Flav. He mentioned loving tiny things. There's something extraordinarily satisfying about them. I agree. I love tiny things. Would be remiss if I did not bring you

to the Museum of Jurassic Technology. I love that place. I know. I've been there too. It's in Los Angeles. There are not one but two fantastic exhibits of tiny things. The Eye of the Needle and Micromosaics. I don't think I saw those, did you? The tiny thing I remember was like the dioramas of the trailers. And the Eye of the Needle, I remember that. Oh yeah? Yeah. I don't remember the micromosaics.

I haven't been in many years though. Yeah, same thing. Uh, Eye of the Needle features delightful whimsical miniature sculptures actually small enough to fit into the Eye of the Needle. That's a little too small for me. Okay, so you like... I like the tiny Tabasco bottles that you get in pictures. You like to feel like you're a giant, not like a god.

Yeah, exactly. I just want to be taller. The Micro Mosaics exhibit also requires magnifying glass to enjoy. However beautiful this exhibit is, it has a slightly creepy aspect to it. The tiny mosaic pieces are in fact bits of butterfly wings. Yeah. That's not too creepy. Well, I mean...

Did they kill the butterflies? Depends, yeah. How'd they come across those wings? Were they roadkill? If so, that's fine. Yeah. What a job. Go out and just try and find dead butterflies. All in all, these exhibits have a wonderful feel of magic realism. The museum also features a lovely rooftop garden as well as a meditative tea room to enjoy a complimentary cup of tea. Interesting. That is all, guys.

Cheers from Sandra Williams. Thanks a lot for the shout-out, Sandra. That is indeed a great place if you're ever in Los Angeles everybody go check out the Museum of Jurassic Technology Just go in with your mind open and thank us later. Yeah get out of Ripley's believe it or not. Okay, both you know sure I Said get out of Ripley's believe it or not. Okay. Yeah, but I mean Jack Palance man How do you how do you pass that up?

I don't get it. Remember he was the host of the TV show. Oh, was he? Believe it or not. Yeah, my brother worked with him on City Slickers 2. Got you. And there was one story where, you know, he's kind of old at the time, where Scott as the AD is to walk him. Second AD is to walk the talent to the set from their trailer and it was through the desert, the rocky desert and Scott was

like you know look out for that rock Mr. Palance or something like that and one day he was just like I don't need you to tell me how to walk. Nice. And Scott like shrank down. I can't remember if that's exactly what he said. But I'll bet Jack Palance felt so bad for yelling at Scott, of all people. I doubt it. You know, it's Scott.

He didn't delight in Scott like everyone else does. It's Jack Palance. Yeah. Well, if you want to tell us how great you think Scott is, you can send us all an email, including Jerry, to stuffpodcast.howstuffworks.com. And as always, join us at our home on the web, stuffyoushouldknow.com. Stuff You Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts, my heart radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever

you listen to your favorite shows. Hi, everyone. It's me, Katie Couric. Thank you. and soul to share expert approved advice for your physical and mental health. And guess what? It's free. Just sign up at katiecurrick.com slash body and soul. That's K A T I E C O U R I C dot com slash body and soul. I promise it will make you happier and healthier. Senora sex ed is not your mommy's sex talk. This show is La Platica like you've never heard it before.

We're breaking the stigma and silence around sex and sexuality in Latinx communities. This podcast is an intergenerational conversation between Latinas from Gen X to Gen Z. We're your hosts, Viosa and Mala. You might recognize us from our first show, Locatora Radio. Listen to Senora Sex Ed on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. There's so much beauty in Mexican culture, like mariachis, delicious cuisine, and even lucha libre.

Join us for the new podcast, Lucha Libre, Behind the Mask, a 12-episode podcast in both English and Spanish about the history and cultural richness of Lucha Libre. And I'm your host Santos Escobar, Emperor of Lucha Libre and a WWE superstar.