Stuff You Should Know - Selects: What happens to abandoned mines?

Episode Date: April 16, 2022

Did you know there are as many as 500,000 abandoned mines in the US, but the federal government knows where only 30,000 of them are? Learn about how these places go from money pit to death trap when mine companies simply walk away, in this classic episode.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hey, I'm Lance Bass, host of the new iHeart podcast Frosted Tips with Lance Bass. Do you ever think to yourself, what advice would Lance Bass and my favorite boy bands give me in this situation? If you do, you've come to the right place because I'm here to help. And a different hot sexy teen crush boy bander each week to guide you through life. Tell everybody, yeah, everybody about my new podcast and make sure to listen so we'll never, ever have to say bye, bye, bye. Listen to Frosted Tips with Lance Bass on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to podcasts. I'm Munga Chauticular and it turns out astrology is way more widespread than any of us want to

believe. You can find in Major League Baseball, International Banks, K-pop groups, even the White House. But just when I thought I had a handle on this subject, something completely unbelievable happened to me and my whole view on astrology changed. Whether you're a skeptic or a believer, give me a few minutes because I think your ideas are about to change too. Listen to Skyline Drive on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi everybody, Chuck here. In the podcast time, it's August 23rd, 2012, because we are in the Wayback Machine taking you back for our Saturday Selects episode all about abandoned minds. And to tell you the truth, you guys, I picked this one because I didn't remember doing it,

which means I have to listen to it again to make sure it's good. And I'm going to learn it all over again along with you. So check out this episode from August 2012. What happens to abandoned minds? Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeart Radio. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's Charles W. Chuck Bryant. I just had some of my notes mixed up, like criminal records was stuffed in the middle of this one. Wouldn't that be funny if I was talking about abandoned minds and then just like a robot was like, and if you have a DUI, you can call your local police shop and get that expunged. I think that's bad advice. Well, now I'm just saying. Do not ever call the

police unless it's an emergency. You're right. Chuck. Yes. How are you doing? Good. Three today, huh? Yeah, they're for a holiday even. In fact, the office is closed right now and we're still working. I know. It's like crickets outside. Yep. And someone threw a spear at me when I stuck my head out to go to the bathroom. Good. That was his assignment. Yeah. So, Chuck. Yes. If I may take it down a notch or two. Okay. Have you ever heard of a guy named Taylor Crane? No. She's a kid. No. Taylor is a kid who was 16 years old when he died. Okay. He was on a tour of Mexico with his parents. New Mexico or Mexico? Mexico, Mexico, old Mexico. And he was on a tour. I didn't realize these existed, but of abandoned haciendas and mines. So, it's basically like

an urban exploration tour of old Mexico. Gotcha. And they were at an old mine site. The tour group was and Taylor was apparently playing tag and jumped up on a low wall and apparently on the other side of that was a 1,000 foot mine shaft which he fell into. 1,000 feet. 10 feet across. Geez. Wide open. 1,000 feet down. They had a lot of trouble getting to them to recover them. Wow. Because there's so much lead and arsenic at the bottom that it was really difficult to breathe. Geez. To get down there to get them. Wow. So, you think like, wow, that's really crazy that Mexico has these open mines. Mime blowing as it is. Mexico is not the only place. As a matter of fact, here in the States, we have something on the scale of 500,000 abandoned mines. That's the high end.

Yeah. But the low end even is still, I think, like 300,000 abandoned mines. Abandoned mines. Probably two of the most dangerous words you can put together. Yeah. And they're all over the place. The US is lousy with them. Yeah. About 30 people die in the United States every year from accidents involving abandoned mines. And I did a little looking. Yeah, I did too. Apparently, they include quarries. Yeah. And most of these are drownings. Yeah. Because a quarry either has water or an abandoned mine shaft, they'll pump out water to work in it. And then when they're done, it fills back up with water. So, some say crazy scuba divers will try and scuba dive these things. My dad was actually certified in an old marble quarry in Toledo. Really?

And to be certified, you had to go down to a school bus at the bottom of this quarry. Wow. You had to dive down, go into the school bus and grab something from it. It was like right inside and then bring it back up and they'd be like, okay, you're certified. Your dad did that? Yeah. That's pretty awesome. I'm trying to picture that. I can't imagine anything more creepy than having to go into a school bus at the bottom of a filled quarry. No, I'm just trying to picture your dad like all scuba diving and adventuring. Oh yeah, he had a buzz cut and more like a big watch and everything. Yeah, he was... I guess anytime you're older and you meet someone's father when they're a little older, it's hard to imagine them as young because I didn't know him

back then. Yeah. But I'd picture him on the couch. Oh no, huh? Yeah. No, he carried a speargun everywhere, he went with him. Really? That's awesome. All right, so sadly, like I said, about 30 people die each year. Many of them are drownings. I think number two on the list is ATV accidents, which doesn't surprise me because too long on the ATV on some random thinking you're in the middle of nowhere place and all of a sudden the bottom falls out. Literally. Yeah. Yeah, those were the top two far and away that I came across too. But since 2001, apparently 227 people have died in the United States because of accidents involving abandoned mines. I saw one in 2008. These two guys were trying to get a former gold mine going again because they thought there was still gold

down there and they were pumping out water with some sort of machine with a generator and they died of carbon monoxide poisoning. Yeah, that's another, I think it's way down on the list. It's like a distant third, but I think it's being overcome, unable to breathe, asphyxiation, that's the word I'm looking for. By bringing in your own thing or just by the toxic chemicals down there. Toxic chemicals or carbon monoxide or oxygen depletion in general from people either trying to get old ones started up or more likely adventuring, checking out abandoned mines. Let's go ahead and give a tip to people because we like to encourage the Urban Explorers, which we've done a podcast on that, but man, you don't need to be hanging around abandoned

mines. It's very, very dangerous. Yes. I mean, that's just so mind bogglingly dangerous. Yeah, just to resist the urge. I have that urge too because I love the Urban Exploration. If I saw a hole in the ground, I would want to go check it out, but it's not a good place to be, not a good thing to do. What's crazy is we said like up to 500,000 abandoned mines and these are just the mines, not mine features. Say every mine has several mine features, say an adit, which is a vertical shaft or I'm sorry, a horizontal shaft. You've got a vertical shaft like the one that poor Taylor Crane fell into. You have all of these different mine features on up to 500,000 mines. The crazy thing is as of February 2011, the Bureau of Land Management, which is tasked

with finding these abandoned mines, has only found about 31,000 of them. That means that there's possibly 469,000 abandoned mines in the United States that no one has on any map. True, but on the good side, they're trying to find them now. In 2008, they only had 18,000 of them. In that span of three years, they found another 13,000. I had 12,000 in 2008. Oh, really? Yeah. Well, even better than. Yeah. I think 25% of those have been remediated, have pending reclamation, or they say aren't a danger. They say. They say. That's just the physical dangers. Yeah, there's two kinds. There's physical dangers and environmental dangers. I guess it's of the ones they found. They said 20 to 30% have

physical hazards and 10% have environmental hazards. Is that right? Yeah. Okay. It's not a ton, but 20% is pretty dangerous. Well, a physical hazard is insidious for just the local people who are walking around it. Sure, like falling in. Yeah, or maybe caving in. By the way, I found out that any mine feature that is like a hole in the ground, or even like if there's a depression in the ground because a mine collapsed some, they're called glory holes. Did you know that? That was almost a spit take, wasn't it? Yeah, that's not true. I swear to God it is. I saw a sign today of an abandoned mine called the glory hole mine. Well, that's quite a name. Yeah. Good for them.

Mine tailings you talk about, and this is some of the environmental hazards, and these can actually be physical hazards too if you're living nearby. These are the remnants of what was going on there, of the mineral, and often it can be very toxic, and then that can either be harmful to you or it can run off into the water and be harmful to people downriver. That was my point, is things like add-its and other mine features. They're dangerous if you're walking around the mine. Environmental hazards of a mine can be very far-reaching because in very much the same way that acid rain is produced from smoke stacks, these mines can produce acid rain, and they can also produce acid ground water. When sulfide, sulfide minerals and oxygen

combine with water, it produces acidic ground water that can pollute an entire water system downstream. And then also Chuck, there's mercury tailings are a big problem, especially with gold mines. Oh, I'm sure. So if you take mercury and take gold and put them together, mercury absorbs the gold. And you get a rainbow. Right, exactly. A deadly rainbow. And it makes what's called an amalgam. And then later on, so you can take little gold flecks or whatever, and now they're like highly portable, stable little things of mercury. And then you take them somewhere else, and you can burn the mercury off, and the mercury will vaporize, and just the gold is left. Well, the problem is, is that mercury then immediately contaminates wherever you just burned it off,

and there's the atmosphere and everything. But those kind of tailings are especially problematic in all gold mines too. And does that end up in gold shlager bottles? Probably. Is that where they get it? I don't know. I hope they're not putting formerly mercury gold amalgam in the gold shlager. No, the people at gold shlager wouldn't do that. In this situation, if you do, you've come to the right place because I'm here to help. This, I promise you. Oh, God. Seriously, I swear. And you won't have to send an SOS because I'll be there for you. Oh, man. And so my husband, Michael. Um, hey, that's me. Yeah, we know that, Michael, and a different hot sexy teen crush boy band are each week to guide you through life step by step.

Oh, not another one. Kids, relationships, life in general can get messy. You may be thinking, this is the story of my life. Just stop now. If so, tell everybody, everybody about my new podcast and make sure to listen. So we'll never, ever have to say bye, bye, bye. Listen to Frosted Tips with Lance Bass on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to podcasts. I'm Mangesha Tickler. And to be honest, I don't believe in astrology. But from the moment I was born, it's been a part of my life. In India, it's like smoking. You might not smoke, but you're going to get secondhand astrology. And lately, I've been wondering if the universe has been trying to tell me to stop running and pay attention. Because maybe there is magic in the stars,

if you're willing to look for it. So I rounded up some friends and we dove in and let me tell you, it got weird fast. Tantric curses, Major League Baseball teams, canceled marriages, K-pop. But just when I thought I had a handle on this sweet and curious show about astrology, my whole world came crashing down. Situation doesn't look good. There is risk to father. And my whole view on astrology, it changed. Whether you're a skeptic or a believer, I think your ideas are going to change too. Listen to Skyline Drive and the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. So Josh, if this is such a problem, why wouldn't these companies clean up their mind

sites? It seems like a no-brainer to me. You there, you do the work, you close it down, you clean it up. Right. Make sure it's safe for everybody. That's how you do it now, supposedly. It was not the case until 1977 for about 200 years. People mined, even more than that, people mined in the United States. Willy-nilly. However they wanted. And they would say, well, this mine's used up. I don't need it any longer. I'm walking away. Well, the quick answer to my question, which I will know, is money. That's the real reason, because it's really expensive to clean up your mind site. If you're a mining operation and you can

what, 1977? You can just fold up shop and leave. Why would you spend money to clean it up if you were a company without an ethical compass and a moral compass? Because it's going to hit your bottom line. So screw it. Let's just leave it. I can't help but feel like you set me up by asking me that question and expecting the short answer, because I've never given a short answer. Well, that is the short answer. 2006 Congressional testimony said it would cost $72 billion to clean up only the hard rock mines, like the hard rock cafes. $72 billion. Well, the Bureau of Land Management, which we said is responsible for finding these mines and for reclaiming them, basically,

they divide mines that they have to deal with into three categories. There's hard rock, which is like gold, silver, minerals, iron, maybe. I don't think they deal with iron. And then there's coal mines and then uranium mines. Gotcha. Well, I saw on the East Coast, they had a map of where a lot of these abandoned mines are. And there's a lot of them on the East Coast. And there were, I think, a lot of the coal mines. Oh, yeah. There's a centrality of Pennsylvania, which we talked about before. It's an abandoned town with a coal seam burning underneath. Oh, yeah, that's right. Creepy. So they abandoned the mines over time. Land records and lease records were lost, basically. It's like a reverse foreclosure.

Yeah, pretty much. And so in the end, no one's on the hook. No one knows many times who these mines originally, like who was responsible for this to begin with. And even if they do know, the mine owners can be like, do you have documentation that says they own that mine? And the government goes, no. And the mine owner says, see it. Or the other little loophole, you wrote this, right? Yeah. That you pointed out, which was if you have gone through bankruptcy, then you can't be held liable. That is no longer true. Oh, is that not true? Yeah, I was happy to find that you now have to post a bond, basically, as a mining company. From what I understand from research I did very recently, that you have to post a bond,

kind of like a fidelity bond, that as money you pay in upfront, that you get back if your mining operation successfully reclaims the land. If you don't reclaim it, if reclamation isn't like the end of your mine, or you go bankrupt, that money's still there to pay for reclamation. So you're going to correct the article? I think I should. I think you should. People need to know that. Here's a little thing too called the Clean Water Act, which obviously you're going to be violating that if you're letting your toxins from your mind leak out into the groundwater. Right. Big penalties. But as you pointed out that in 2006, there was legislation to exempt people

from prosecution who were actually trying to clean up their mines. I want to go clean up my mine, and we're going to exempt you as long as you weren't the people who started the mine to begin with, I guess, exempt from the Clean Water Act? Yes, from polluting, because one of the big problems with tailings in a lot of cases, just removing them is going to, some's going to slip into the watershed. And if it's from, say, a uranium mine, well, it's radioactive, and your water's radioactive, and you have to pay a huge fine. Well, is it better to leave it, I wonder? It's better to not get any into the watershed.

Well, but can you clean it up without doing that? Yes, I feel like what the government has been doing, the Bureau of Land Management does, and they have a division called the Abandoned Mine Lands, they basically just build a structure around it, kind of like what they did with Chernobyl, but on a much smaller scale, where it's basically like, this is going to stay here for a little while. We'll just put this around it until it's not radioactive any longer. That's the impression I have of what they're doing, at least with radioactive stuff. Well, that legislation did not pass, though.

No, it didn't. Which seems like it would discourage people from trying to clean these things up, right? Yeah, but I also read testimony from this group called Earthworks, and they were lobbying against that loophole saying it was overly broad. That basically, if you just picked up a little bit of litter, whatever, you were automatically exempt from the Clean Water Act. Gotcha. So it could be used to nefarious ends by amoral people.

Well, you mentioned the Abandoned Mine Lands program under the Bureau of Land Management. They get funding roughly in the neighborhood of $12 to $15 million a year, and we said earlier it takes $70 billion to clean up, I think just a hard rock site. So they're doing the best they can over an eight-year period. They cleaned up more than 3,000 mines, which is awesome. But when you've got potentially 500,000 out there, it's a little scary to think about. So to remediate a mine, you have to address the physical stuff and the environmental stuff. You have to take care of the tailings, piles.

You have to prevent any more acid ground water from being produced. You have to disassemble and carry off any old machinery, any old buildings maybe, and you have to cover up entrances. But covering up a mine shaft, a glory hole, as it's called in the industry, is not quite as cut and dry as you think. You just put a huge heavy metal slab over it. Sure. The problem is, is when you build a mine, in a lot of cases, you've disturbed a bat population.

When you abandon the mine, you're leaving this bat population with an awesome little place to live. Yeah, a playground, if you will. Exactly. Now, bats are really, really essential to our comfort and happiness, in that the average bat can kill something like 600 mosquitoes an hour, when it really wants to, if it's feeling frisky. So we want to keep bats around. They're already being decimated by white-nosed fungus.

Right? Yeah. So people who are reclaiming abandoned mines have figured out that there's ways that you can keep humans out, but let bats in and out. And so they put on bat cupolas, vertical shafts, which is basically just like a little roof that has slats to let the bats fly in and out. Yeah, that makes sense. And a bat gate is virtually the same thing, except it goes into an adit.

Bat gate. Bat cupola. I think it's a great idea. Because then you're not going to find a kid down in there. No. You're not disturbing the population of the bats. Unless the kid is the size of a bat. And even still, why is he not?

Yeah, bat boy. That's his problem. Well, bat boy's fine. Yeah. I'm here to help. This, I promise you. Oh, God. Seriously, I swear.

And you won't have to send an SOS because I'll be there for you. Oh, man. And so my husband, Michael. Um, hey, that's me. Yep. We know that, Michael. And a different hot, sexy teen crush boy bander each week to guide you through life step by step. Oh, not another one.

Kids, relationships, life in general can get messy. You may be thinking, this is the story of my life. Oh, just stop now. If so, tell everybody, everybody about my new podcast and make sure to listen. So we'll never, ever have to say bye, bye, bye. Listen to Frosted Tips with Lance Bass on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to podcasts. I'm Mangesh Atikular.

And to be honest, I don't believe in astrology. But from the moment I was born, it's been a part of my life. In India, it's like smoking. You might not smoke, but you're going to get secondhand astrology. And lately, I've been wondering if the universe has been trying to tell me to stop running and pay attention. Because maybe there is magic in the stars, if you're willing to look for it. So I rounded up some friends and we dove in and let me tell you, it got weird fast.

Tantric curses, major league baseball teams, canceled marriages, K-pop. But just when I thought I had to handle on this sweet and curious show about astrology, my whole world came crashing down. The situation doesn't look good. There is risk to father. And my whole view on astrology, it changed. Whether you're a skeptic or a believer, I think your ideas are going to change too. Listen to Skyline Drive and the iHeart Radio app,

Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. So the EPA started something called the Superfund, which basically means mining companies now pay into this huge bank account to cover cost of future cleanups, but that's not enough to meet the needs so taxpayers end up paying for the discrepancies. I don't mind my tax money going toward that. So apparently nowadays, since 1977, part of the Abandoned Mine Reclamation Fund is that if you were a mining company, you're putting in, you're paying a tax, basically,

for every 31, for every ton of surface coal that you mine and every ton of underground coal, you're paying 31.5 cents for surface coal and 13.5 cents a ton for underground mine stuff. And all that goes into the Superfund to reclaim it. That's not bad. Well, this October, I think, it's going to go down to 12 cents and 28 cents as a tax. Yeah. Times are tough all over for everybody. Yeah, they are. In 1986, Josh, as you point out, the Department of Interior created an award

for mining excellence. This is like yard of the month for Abandoned Mine. And reclamating, I think it's called the Miney Award. All joking aside, it's very cool that they do this because a lot of people are more responsible these days with their mining operations. They're not all bad. Mining is a vital thing. We're not trying to poo-poo that.

And then we did, like with the mountaintop removal coal mining. It came down pretty hard. But a lot of miners these days are pretty responsible. And they are reclaiming this land and going back in and planting vegetation and trying to preserve old buildings and make those into live work space condos. Exactly what they're doing. Yeah, so that's great. Yep.

Keep it up is what I say. I agree. And be careful out there, ATV people and rock-corey swimmers. Yeah, they're, if you see a mine, stay away. I believe that's the name of the program. Oh, really? Yeah. Stay away.

Yeah, it's like, you know, those cartoony posters with exclamation points and stuff like that. PSAs, that's what they're called. I think if you do see a mine, go on the internet and look up reporting Abandoned Mines. And you will find a way to do it. And that'll be helpful. You'll save some money. Save some taxpayer money if you report a mine yourself. Agreed.

If you want to know more about Abandoned Mines and Reclamation and all that stuff, you can type it into the search bar at HowStuffWorks.com. And I said search bar, which means it's time for you. See you next time. That's right, Josh, this closes out the trilogy. I'll go and start out with Donna Fessler. My husband always wants to call my beef vegetable soup a stew, but it is broth-based. I don't argue, and basically she's asking about this.

My recommendation, Donna, is to go check out the podcast Judge John Hodgman. I was going to say the same thing. Because he has a full podcast on, I believe, Chili's Chowdhers, Stews and Soups and the Differences, right? This is the first one, wasn't it? It was pretty early on. Judge John will break it all down for you. Nice plug, Chuck.

Thank you. Ryan Taylor, question, what time is it? A, hammer time, B, time to make the donuts, or C, beer o'clock? Time to make the donuts. Beer o'clock. We've got one from Jeremy Glover. Did either of you grow up watching Andy Griffith's show? I think he means The Andy Griffith Show.

Yeah, I certainly did. I did, too. In reruns. Is there anybody, yeah, same here. Is there anybody who is alive today that didn't grow up watching it? Yeah, well, he's asking that because Andy Griffith died today. Oh, really? Yeah.

I didn't know he's still alive. He was, till today. Wow, that's, well, he had quite a run. Yeah, he was 86 years old, good full life as Sheriff Andy Taylor and Matt Locke. And was that it? Those are his two big characters, didn't he? Have a third. Those were the two big ones.

Was this any like the landlord on Three's Company for a little while? No, I don't think so. Tanya Chavez, it is my anniversary. Can you do a quick shout out to my very patient husband, Abe Franklin? It'd be a fun surprise. All right, Tania. I think it's Tania. Happy anniversary to you and Abe.

Happy anniversary, Tanya, Tania and Abe. Oh, here's a good one. Brandon Nichols, who would you most like to punch in the face? That's sort of like the fight club question, who would you fight? Who would I most like to punch in the face? Boy, that'd be a good one. I think myself many times. That's very much like fight club.

Actually, I got someone else, but I can't say. I think you know who it is. Oh, yeah. I'd like to punch him in the face. Yeah. You got anyone? I'm not saying anything. So that was kind of a cop out.

Yeah. Vitaly says, would you rather fight 100 duck-sized horses or one horse-sized duck? I love these questions. Hmm, one horse-sized duck. I would go for the one horse-sized duck because you get like a sharpened stick in its neck. It's over and done with. It's kind of like that garage full of guided missiles up in space. Yeah.

You take one out, you take 10 out. If you got like 100 duck-sized horses coming at you, they're going to get the best of you. Yeah, plus that's just creepy, man. Can you imagine 100 like one foot tall horses coming after you? I find the horse-sized duck creepier. Yeah, I don't mind that. That's some good eating, too. Oh, yeah.

Micah? Mia. Mia. Mia Paul Cannell says how. Mia or Maya. Maya says, how is Atlanta really quality of life? Would you recommend it? I would.

I love Atlanta. I'm from here and I moved back here for a reason. Josh, do you like Atlanta? Sure, Atlanta's great. Atlanta's great. Robert Casey is jerry as smoking hot as we think she is and more. My friend, that's all I'm going to say about that. Have you ever gotten a threatening listener mail from Nathaniel Yeager?

No, nothing threatening. I have. Really? Yeah. Like physically threatened? No, menacing. How about that? I've gotten a couple of little crazy ones, but never menacing.

Got menacing. Care to share? No. Okay. I don't want to set anybody off. How about one more? Okay, let's see. Why is cilantro so divisive from Heidi Wells?

Good question, Heidi Wells. That is a good one. Cilantro, the herb, also known as coriander or Chinese celery, I believe, in some quarters. Or cilantro. Yeah, that's pretty good. Thank you. It's divisive because it strikes different people's tongues differently. It's really big time, right?

Some people, cilantro, is a glorious herb, including me. And me. I love cilantro. Me too. To other people, it tastes very much like soap. Yeah, my friend says that. And there is actually, if you're interested, a video on WebMD that addresses this question. And if you watch very closely, the filmmaker, who is a friend of mine, who I know through Yumi,

put in a moment where he takes a thing of palm olive and puts it over a taco. And it happens just for a second. But it's pretty brilliant once you. It was just funny looking. Yeah. It's like, did he just put soap on a taco? Yeah. There you go.

Well, here's what I have to say. I feel sorry for people who have that taste reaction. Oh, I do too. Because cilantro, to me, is one of the great, great things on food and some drinks. Yes. I put a little cilantro and margaritas from time to time. So good. It's really nice.

And a couple slices of jalapeno. Yeah. All right. I'm hungry and thirsty. I am too, man. Let's go eat some guacamole. Yay. Uh, if you have questions for Chuck and I, you can tweet to us at syskpodcast.

You can join us on facebook.com slash stuff you should know. Or you can send us an email to stuffpodcast at howstuffworks.com. Stuff you should know is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts, my heart radio, visit the iHeartRadio app. Apple podcasts are wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Badie about my new podcast and make sure to listen. So we'll never, ever have to say bye, bye, bye. Listen to Frosted Tips with Lance Bass on the iHeart Radio app,

Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to podcasts. I'm Munga Chauticular and it turns out astrology is way more widespread than any of us want to believe. You can find in Major League Baseball, International Banks, K-pop groups, even the White House. But just when I thought I had a handle on this subject, something completely unbelievable happened to me and my whole view on astrology changed. Whether you're a skeptic or a believer, give me a few minutes because I think your ideas are about to change too.

Listen to Skyline Drive on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.