Stuff You Should Know - Selects: What's the deal with Stradivarius violins?

Episode Date: July 29, 2023

The Strad violin is noted for its tonal qualities and superior craftsmanship. And for its price tag. There are many theories why the Strad sounds so great, from the wood to the lacquer, to the simple fact that Antonio Stradivari was really good at what he did. Rosin up your bow and take a listen to this classic episode.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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on the iHeart Radio app Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey everybody, it's me Josh. And for this week's Select, I've chosen our episode from September of 2016 on the Stradivarius Violin. It's where we get to the bottom of whether Stradivarius Violins really are that much better than others, or whether everyone in the music world is just really into brand names.

I think you'll be pleasantly surprised. And I mentioned the movie The Red Violin that, like this episode, is worth checking out too. So enjoy them both. Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of I Heart Radio. Hey and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There's Charles W. Chuck Bryant and there's Jerry Roland. Yeah. Jerry said right before she pressed record. I'm Sleepy. 321. Oh, really? Yeah, I didn't hear. You didn't even notice that did he? I was just memorizing. I was practicing what I was going to say. Oh, sorry. We'll go ahead. It just did. Oh, I was successful.

You're practicing, hey, welcome to the podcast. Should we talk Fittles? Yeah, Chuck FittledyD, let's do. I bought one a few years ago, by the way. Chuck one lesson. And you became an expert? Yep. No, that's just me, man.

That's how things go with me. I have a lot of things that I've been like, I'm gonna do this. Got a lot of balls in the air. Yeah, specifically musically. I bought a steel guitar and didn't learn to play that. It was a little bit about a keyboard and was gonna learn to play piano.

I didn't do that. Okay. I bought the violin. I'm keeping the violin, though. Okay. So you're stimulating the economy? Yeah, pretty much. And I usually keep just like sell that

and use that money to buy the next thing I don't play. Yeah. But I don't know. Like I know how to play guitar. So I'm kind of realizing at my age, like maybe that's all it's gonna be. You're a guitar man, like Bread said. Yeah, but I used to want to be like, man,

by the time I die I want to be able to play all the stringed instruments. So that was Bread said. Yeah, but I used to want to be like, man, by the time I die, I want to be able to play all the stringed instruments. That was my goal. Yeah. And I've learned one. I mean, that's more than some people. I don't know how to play any stringed instruments, so, but, you know, care too.

It sounds like, no, I mean, I, well, so you consider the piano a stringed instrument? It's got strings. So, yeah, is it percussion or is it string or is it both? Well, a little hammer hits the string. Right, percussion. Interesting. Whereas a harpsichord is plucked.

Yeah. Talking piano. Yeah. I wish I could play the piano. I'd like to learn that one day. Right. My brother took lessons as a kid in my sister, but I didn't.

Oh, yeah. Scott can still play a little bit today. Of course. Hey Scott. Super bro. Uh, so the fiddle, a little history here before we get into the man. Um, the fiddle or violin, there's no difference by the way. Is that right?

Yep. It's just one play. One's pronounced one way and the other's pronounced the other way. Yeah, it's a little, and I thought there was a difference when I bought mine I was like, well, what's the difference and it's just an hey play it. They're like killbillies play fiddles. Yeah, other people play violence Exactly. So the fiddle at first was not a well-regarded instrument. It was thought of as a sort of a cheap Tavern instrument, you know, like you'd get drunk and hop up on the table at the tavern, really?

And beat out a little Irish jig. Really? Yeah, and it didn't have a good reputation in that. Wait, when? Well, I mean, this is the 16th century. Okay. So then, initially. Yeah.

Okay. I'm with you then. I'm with you. Hang on. And even in parts of Italy at first, the church ordered the destruction of violence. They were so like, looked down upon. And then a lady named Catherine Dimadici got on board and she was like, this thing is wonderful.

I'm going to order 38 of them for my court from this guy named Nicholas Amari, who is the grandson of the great violin maker Andrea Amari, actually, she probably bought them from Andrea if it was the 1500s. Right. And, yeah, it was 1564. And that was it. Things started to change, and that's literally what kind of led the violin down a path of respectability.

Yeah, once you introduce it into court, or people tend to follow suit. Yeah. Yeah, so the amades lived in a place called Kermona, Italy. That's right. And Kermona, because the amades lived there, who were basically the de facto inventors of the violin, cello, and viola, as we recognize them today.

Yeah. Because that's where they were from. of the violin, cello, and viola, as we recognize them today, because that's where they were from. Cermona became the center of violin production, stringed instrument production, plain and simple. Yeah, which is pretty neat. The idea that that's where violins came from and that they're that recent and origin. And of course, it goes further back than that, Like, lutes were obviously around long before the violin.

Sure. But again, if you look at a violin today and say, oh, that's a violin, you can thank the amades of Cremona for making that recognizable to you. Yeah. And here's another cool little fact. The fancy, beautiful shape of a violin is not for aesthetics. It is all about the sound that it makes. The violin doesn't give a damn whether you think it looks good. Well, it turned out to look beautiful, but all those curves allow for equal resonance of all the notes. If it was

more basically shaped, certain notes would be sound better than others. Huh. So that allowed the entire fingerboard to sound wonderful. Well, plus also if you look at a violin face-on. Sure. If you go down the sides in the middle, it's cut in. Yeah.

Those are called seabouts. Those actually have a practical purpose. I'm sure in addition to helping produce sound, but it allows the bow to play the strings on either side without hitting the body of the violin. Pretty clever. It's really hard to play. I can't stress that enough. It's like, I thought, this is not so different than a guitar. I'm just holding it under my neck and using a bow instead of fingers. That's got to be a pretty big difference. It's a huge difference.

Yeah, sure. Fingers, bows, totally different. You're born with one, the other you have to like buy. Well, it's a combination of pressure on a string, angle of the bow on the string. Pressure from your parents. Placement of the bow on, like, as far as how far down it is up and down the violin. Speed? Sure.

It's like there's like ten different things that go into making a sound on a violin that you have to do successfully all at once. It's really, really hard. Yeah. Like I was intimidated and went in the closet you go. Maybe my daughter will play one day and it will be waiting for her nice So we'll see but should we go over the the parts? I know you mentioned the seabout sure seabouts my favorite so you take it from there

Well if you look at a violin you got the very Above those little tuning pegs which are contained in the peg box You've got the scroll which is that kind of a curvy, lovely fancy piece at the top. Yeah. Then you have the neck and the finger board. The neck goes from basically down to the body of the violin, but the finger board continues on through it.

The upper bout, the lower bout, and then that C bout you mentioned, which is also called the waist. And you have your two F holes cut on either side. Yep, the fancy holes. Yeah, they look like Fs. Then you have your bridge, which is the very thin piece of wood that keeps the strings off of the violin body itself. Okay.

And taught. Then you have your tail piece at the bottom where the strings end and then the all-important chin rest. And that's a violin. Bam, go make one now. I'm leaving. So again, there was the amades that came up with the violin you just described.

That's right. And one of the amades, the grandson of Andrea Amade, who I think is credited with inventing the violin, basically. But his grandson, Nicola, taught a young man by the name of Antonio and Antonio Strativari. Ooh, that name sounds familiar. Yeah. Antonio Strativari was born in Cremona. They're not sure when they think probably about 1644. His life is a bit of a mystery, his young life at least. Right, not a lot of great records on it.

You know what, this is just a jog my memory. We never explained why Alexander Hamilton would shave two years off of his age, even though we specifically said we were going to. Well, that's awesome. Should we follow up now? Shhh, probably not. Okay, I think people would get mad. Yeah, if you wanna know, right in and we follow up now. Shh. Probably not. Okay, I think people would get mad.

Yeah, if you want to know, right in, and we'll tell you, or maybe we'll post it on social media. I think that's better. Yeah. But who cares? We're talking Stradivary now. Yeah, we've moved on.

Right, so Stradivary, there's not very good records about his youth, I think, as you said. But he pops up in 1666 at the very latest. That's right. A violin pops up in 1666, I should say. It has an inscription on it and a label actually. And if you translate it to English, it says made by Antonio Stredevere of Cremona,

pupil of Nicolomati in 1666. Well done. Year of Satan. And that means he was either a pupil, which it clearly says, or a bit of a stretch of the truth and a bit of a ruse and a career move. Really? Yeah, there's some people that say, and that's why I was wondering, it says, people believe, some people believe he was a pupil. Yeah, I didn't get what the... Well, it says he was a pupil on the inscription. Right.

But the other thought is that maybe it was a bit of a career move to say, I was taught by the great Amadi. Right. Who's dead now and can't say otherwise. Maybe. But who knows? I bet he was probably a pupil. Actually he wasn't dead, so that would have been pretty gutsy.

Sure. To have done that, because Amati didn't die for many years. Many more years after 1666. So I think the common consensus is that he was a pupil of Amati. He would have said, you're stealing on my business. So what up with that? Right. Man, this thing is going gonna be lousy with that

All right, so 1666 you are correct. He builds his very first violin on his own He continues to build violins On his own in his attic which was apparently the tradition Attic violin building was it that's what it said huh? I guess that was just like where you would put your workshop Okay, who knows maybe it I don't know Have you ever seen the movie The Red Violin? Yes. Great movie. Agreed. Like stick with it. I think I might have seen that on your recommendation years ago. Probably. If I'm not mistaken. Yeah, really good movie though. Yeah.

So he's making violins. He moves into a home in 1680. And he started to get some recognition as a great builder and maker of violins, a great craftsman. He did. And he was still kind of living in the shadow of the amades. But when Nikola Amade died in 1684, by this time, everyone said, this guy is Kermona's best maker of violins. Which since Kermona was a world capital of violin making,

they were made elsewhere, but Kermona was like the place where the best were made. The Krem of the Kermona. Right, that made him the world's best violin maker, and he hadn't even entered his golden period yet. Yeah, and he was making more than violins. He's making cellos and guitars and mandalins and harps. Pretty much anything with strings, except harps chords.

Huh, who knows, he might have made a harps accord. Well, but that'd be worth a lot, probably so. All right, should we take a break here? Yes. All right, we'll get into more craftsmanship right after this. Hey y'all, this is Annie, Anselmanta of Stefan Never Told You, an intersectional feminist podcast where no topic is off limits. Social justice, politics, fashion, health, pop culture,

and general nerdery. And now we have a book packed full of these things too. I really loved that we got a graphic novel element in it's beautiful illustrations and that I got to talk about some of my favorite fictional women. You know what? I think one of my favorite parts to this is talking about the many amazing intersectional people who have worked so hard in the past to bring us to where we are today and to teach us how to fight throughout all of this mess that we're in. And if you're a listener of other stuff podcasts, this book is for you, a combination of information, illustration, activities, and calls to action, and yes, deep-dived into fictional characters and their importance. It will engage you and show you why intersectional feminism matters to all of us. Stuff Mom never told you, the feminist past, present, and future, is available August 29th.

You can pre-order now where books are sold or get yours at stuffyoushouldreadbooks.com. I'm Carol Fisher and I'm hosting a podcast called The Girl Friends. Back in the 1990s in Las Vegas, a few of us dated the most eligible bachelor in town, Bob. He spoke several languages, he did medical, missionary work, and he was Jewish, he was perfect on paper. But he wasn't, he really wasn't. He choked into the point she went unconscious. Bob could lie about anything. It only takes the one time and somebody ends up dead.

Unfortunately for Bob, us girlfriends know how to fight back. I wanted him to pay for his crime. He needed to be put to justice. I'll be honest with you. If I saw him right now, I'd spit on him. I would call him and I would say I know you killed my sister. I will always hound you, if I saw him right now, I'd spit on him. I would call him and I would say, I know you killed my sister. I will always hound you and haunt you.

You can listen to the Girlfriends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. What's up? This is Michael Rappaport. Did you know that I have a podcast? My podcast, the I Am Rappaport stereo Podcast, has released over 1,000 episodes and counting. You've heard my rants, but if you want to hear where I do my best work, listen to The I Am Rappaport Stereo Podcast. Every week you can hear all things related to sports, music, film, interviews. I Am Rappaport Stereo Podcast. With a man that needs no introduction, who I've been a fan of, New Yorker,

Alec Baldwin. But in movies, the rule to remember is, you're not making the movie. They're making the movie. Right, director. Christopher McDonald, AKA Shooter McGatham from Happy Gilmore. And I'll be lying by saying,

it's not the most popular thing I've ever done. I've done 100-something movies. It's just a sports movie, and it's a feel-going, you love to hate this guy. Basketball legend from Brooklyn, New York, Chris Mullin. Michael Imagine going out, I looked over Larry, and he's kind of like, shiggas, I like, no, no, no, no,

it's over, dude. He's the man. He got it. It's over. Listen to the I Am Rap Report stereo podcast on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or whatever you get your podcast. Alright, so Stratavari is following in Amati's footsteps, but he's also like, you know what, I'm going to start tweaking this thing.

Yeah, and craft my own brand of violin. And he does so. He said, I'm going to use some new materials, maybe, some new finishes. I'm going to make that C-Bout little straighter than you're used to. Yeah. Make the F's a little straighter. The F-holes? Is it straighter?

Was that the deal? I think so. I know we altered the F hole some. And something with a scroll too, is that right? He made it more amazing. And he made the scroll larger. Big scroll. The F holes not only straighter, but longer. Right.

Larger scroll and a straighter and stronger see-butt. That was like mechanically, that was where the biggest difference is. Right, but he also crucially came up with his own formula for a varnish. It's a very easily recognized, deep, deep red, brown varnish. That's right.

That his violins have, it's very handsome, but a lot of people as we'll see later believe that it's possibly the varnish that makes Stradivarius violins so great. Because when he made these changes, not only was he making these changes to the shape and appearance of the violin, he was also like a master wood in layer, like the craftsmanship that his violin's had were just unparalleled. They were flawless, flawless works of art as musical instruments.

So in addition to just being a flawless work of art, they also sounded better than anything, anything that could possibly compare, be compared to it. And what's really exceptional about Stradivarius is it's not just one of those things where like, oh, the name is actually what, what is really driving it. As Stradivarius via Lynn, that's 300 years old today,

is probably better than any via Lynn that's been produced in the last 300 years, including a brand new one. Like they're only now getting to the point where they've discovered techniques where they can start to replicate the sound of a strativarius. That's how good this guy's violins were. That it's not a joke, it's not hyperbole of how great the Stradivarius violence were. They are still the ones that this guy made by hand are still the best violence in the world.

That's the most fun. That's really saying something. For sure. Considering how much progress we've made in the last 300 years on just about everything. And these are, you know, for the finest tuned ears in the world. Like clearly there are flawless, amazing instruments and violins being produced since then, but for the true like aficionato, they can spot the difference apparently. Oh yeah, like you and I can't know, but people who's job it is to identify and praise Stradivarius violins say that comparing it to a non-stradivarius, like a knockoff or something, is like comparing a Ferrari to a school bus.

Yeah, what's like that obvious for them? People like saying things like that. It's a great quote. We're just a couple of shmups. What do we know? So, it just might be a new gag. So he and his first wife had six kids. He was good at having kids.

He and his second wife, his wife sadly died in 1698. He got remarried and had five more kids with wife number two. He was great at making violins and making children. Yes. Crafting children. He was great at it. Crafting little babies. Yeah.

They called them the Maestro and the bedroom, you know what I mean? And I think a couple of his sons even went on to follow in his footsteps, is that right? From his first marriage. Right. They were shmumps though. They couldn't hold a candle to their father's work so let's talk about the golden period uh... from seventeen hundred to seventeen twenty just twenty five depending

on who you talk to this was the golden period where these violins he had really honed his design at this point and the materials that he used and everything kind of all coalesced into making the best violins in the history of the world. Right. It was like LeBron's tenure at the heat.

Oh, well, we'll see. His career's not over yet. Yeah. Wow, you're calling it now, huh? I mean, he made a case for a resurgence this past season, but we'll see if he can repeat it. Okay. He was playing on 500 cylinders with the heat. It was just perfect because he didn't have to be the team leader.

He could be one of like the leaders. That team had several leaders and he could be one of them. It wasn't like the whole team just pushed upward toward LeBron. See a lot of people have the opposite view that that was, you know, anyone can get on a team of superstars and win championships. But no, not necessarily. This would be the one leader is a bigger accomplishment. I'm very curious to know how, say like the Golden State Warriors are going to be next season

with Durant and Steph Curry and Clay Thompson on there. Thompson on so much, but like Steph Curry and Kevin Durant, they're like two of the greatest players that have ever lived. Ever lived, not just their playing right now. How are they going to gel? The idea that Duane Wade and Chris Bosch and LeBron James were all able to keep their egos and check and come together to work together and lead a team together? I think that's harder than just being like forget it, I'll do it myself.

You think? Yes. All right, so Stratavary is making his mark on the world, getting his reputation, and he's making a lot of money. He wasn't one of these. It's like, after he died, they later realized how great he was. He was a rich man, making and selling these violins. Yeah, apparently there was a phrase, rich is straight-of-very. Like richer than an astronaut is what we would say today. Yeah, he was one of the more famous guys in Italy at the time, for sure.

Yeah, and rightfully so. His crowning achievement, supposedly, is in 1716 when he built the Messiah. And this is the only violin that he never sold. He kept in his workshop till the day he died. It was his headstash violin. And this violin has rarely been played. Apparently, one of the sort of things unspoken rules when this thing's been sold and passed down, is that don't even play it.

This one should remain pristine. Yeah, it's basically as close to a mint condition strata various as you can find in the world. Oh, it's not close, it's mint. Yeah. But I mean, a couple of people have played it. Oh, really? Yeah. It's not been unplayed. Okay. Yeah. A couple of bad

eggs in there. A couple of super lucky violin plays. That's screw your unwritten rules. Yeah, we'll play in this thing. This is before the Ashmolean got their hands on it. Okay. So post 1720 post golden period, he still produced violins and things, but apparently his eyesight was going, his hands were not as steady, and they weren't quite what they were during the Golden Period. I'm sure they were still wonderful violins. Oh yeah, he's still turning out the good stuff, but nothing like that Golden Period. And he worked into his 90s. He was building violins for, you know, 70 years. He worked up to his death as far as I understand. I think so. So yeah, but that golden period stuff, that was, there was the Messiah from 1716, the

Alard from 1715, the Betts from 1704. Those are just a few of the ones that he made during this period that are still around today. He made, I saw a thousand, I also saw 1,500 stringed instruments during his career. Amazing. About 650 survived today. And they tend to have names, especially the ones from his golden period, as you just heard. They have names, and they're usually the name of name of the most famous player who owned it. Right. They weren't like a Skippy and Old Roy, right? Barnabas. Barnabas the violin. Right. So there's a there's a superstition among violinists that the the more you play a violin,

the more a particular person plays violin, the more that violin takes on the character of that player, right? So much so that a violinist or even a cellist or a violist can come along afterward and play that person's violin. Yeah. And it will sound much more like the person whose violin it is than the person playing it. Oh wow.

And there's a further superstition that the more you play a violin, the better it sounds. Well, that's not a superstition, that's fact. Right. With any instrument. So there is a study from I think 1996 that I came across that found that the more violin wood is vibrated, the more the dampening coefficient is lowered. The lower the dampening coefficient, the longer a note resonates, the richer the sound. And so just playing it, right, because you're vibrating the wood when you're playing a violin, the more you do that, the more frequently you do that,

the better the violin's actually gonna sound. So astoundingly, the more you play a violin, the better it sounds. Well, that's true for any instrument. Is it? Yeah, it's called breaking it in. Oh. It's like a pair of jeans.

That's something you can identify with that. Sure. I love jeans. And you know, a pair of jeans, five years in, are better than they are when you take them off the shelf. Yeah, it's the same thing. It's breaking it in, especially strings with anything with a finger board,

that finger board just wears in, those frets wear down little, and it does get a little bit attuned, I think, to your style. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, very interesting. Yeah. I'd like to do more on musical instruments here and there. OK. I'm putting it out there.

All right. All right. Well, let's take another quick break. And we will get into all the controversies surrounding just why these things sound so good and all those theories. Pretty interesting stuff. Hey, y'all. It's pretty interesting stuff. [♪ INTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ [♪ INTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪

Hey y'all, this is Annie, and Samantha of Steffo never told you an intersectional feminist podcast where no topic is off limits. Social justice, politics, fashion, health, pop culture, and general nerdery. And now, we have a book packed full of these things too. I really loved that we got a graphic novel element in it's beautiful illustrations

and that I got to talk about some of my favorite fictional women. You know what? I think one of my favorite parts to this is talking about the many amazing intersectional people who have worked so hard in the past to bring us to where we are today and to teach us how to fight throughout all of this mess that we're in. And if you're a listener of other stuff podcasts, this book is for you, a combination of information, illustration, activities, and calls to action, and the SDF dives into fictional characters and their importance, it will engage you and show you why intersectional feminism matters to all of us.

Stuff Mom never told you, the Feminist Past, Present, and Future is available August 29th. You can pre-order now where books are sold or get yours at stuffyoushouldreadbooks.com. But if you want to hear where I do my best work, listen to the I Am Rapoport Stereo podcast. Every week you can hear all things related to sports, music, film, interviews. I Am Rapoport Stereo podcast. With a man that needs no introduction, who I've been a fan of, New Yorker, Alec Baldwin. But in movies, the rule to remember is you're not making the movie. They're making the movie. Christy from McDonald, AKA Shooter McGatham from Happy Gilmore. And I would be lying by saying it's not the most popular thing I've ever done. I've done 100-something movies.

It's just a sports movie and it's a feel-going, you love to hate this guy. Basketball legend from Brooklyn, New York, Chris Mullin. Michael and Magic going out. I looked over at Larry and he's kind of like shakers. I was like, no, no, no, no, it's over, dude. He's the man. He no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no few of us dated the most eligible bachelor in town, Bob. He spoke several languages. He did medical missionary work and he was Jewish. He was perfect on paper. But he wasn't. He really wasn't. He choked into the point she went unconscious.

Bob could lie about anything. It only takes the one time when somebody ends up dead. Unfortunately for Bob, us girlfriends know how to fight back. I wanted him to pay for his crime. He needed to be put to justice. I'll be honest with you. If I saw him right now, I'd spit on him. I would call him and I would say, I know you killed my sister. I will always hound you and hound you. You can listen to the girlfriends on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcast,

or wherever you get your podcasts. So Chuck, I gotta say you did a good job putting this one together. Okay. Sure. I'm interested in it. You know, we, I had that stuff from the B side podcast for like two months, with back in the day. People still call for it.

And we covered this very briefly. Oh really? Yeah, and not, we didn't do it right by it, so that's what I was like, you know Yeah, and not we didn't do right by it. So that's what I was like, you know what? That's a good topic. Nice. Let me dust that one off. Nice.

So there have been many, many theories over the years. Like if the strat is so revered and legendary, that people, experts, scientists are bound to want to crack that nut. Yeah, like why? Yeah, like what's the deal? And it's not, again, scientists are bound to want to crack that nut. Yeah, like why? Yeah, like what's the deal? And it's not, again, it's objectively better than other violence. The ones that straight, straight, straight, a very made.

Correct. Some of the theories, the old theories back then, was that he would soak the wood in salt water, not true. That the wood was coated with volcanic ash, not true. Dragon's blood was used in the varnish. That may have been true. OK. George R. Martin came up with that one.

Probably so. And then we'll get into the more modern theories. There's really, well, there's a couple of leading theories. One is the wood. Yeah, this ice age wood, which we'll talk about and the other is the barnish. Go. Okay, well, the strativary was working

during what's known as Europe's little ice age, which is a period of unusually very unusually colder temperatures. And I think they're still trying to figure out what the heck happened. And as a matter of fact, we need to do like a regular ice age podcast. And we'll talk about it then. But the upshot of it was that because of the colder temperatures, the spruce that was used by Stradivary in the manufacturer of these violins grew slower but more evenly steadier so that the wood that was harvested from these spruce trees was much more uniformly grained. So just basically really high end wood was produced by this little ice age.

The problem with that being the reason that Stradivari's violins were so great is that that wood was also available to violin makers elsewhere in Europe. And their violins don't sound anything like a Stradivari. So the little ice age theory, while still I think out there, has I think that really kind of goes a long way to undermining it. Yeah, like, people were really excited about that at first and I think they're like, this is not proof.

It's a cool theory, it is cool. Little Ice Age. There's another dude at Texas A&M, I name Joseph, Nagavary. Naggy Vary very what a unique name uh... and he said it's all about this varnish this cream anise cream anise varnish that alright yeah

cream anise think that's what they say start your morning right with cream anise so uh... he published an article in scientific journal Public Library of Science One. It's capitalized for some reason. And he says, you know what's going on here? It's this varnish that he used. Let me analyze it chemically. And what he found out was, it's very unique in that it has these things in there that you would not expect to be in

a varnish, like Borax and Chromium. And he said, so what I think is going on is this stuff, he added this stuff to the varnish to protect it, that wood against damage and infestation, but what it really did was actually weakened the wood and made it porous where it should not be. And that created more tone, a more booming, rich, powerful tone. Right. And a lot of pushback. His, well, his theory's not entirely out of left field. Like, it's pretty much accepted that if you put

the wrong kind of varnish on a violin, it's going to ruin the sound. Sure. So his whole thing was, well, why couldn't you stumble upon some varnish that actually enhanced the sound? And that was his idea that that's that accounted for Stradivarius violin sounding like that. Yeah, I think he did get a lot of pushback. There seems to be even if he's right, there seems to be a desire among the people who collect and play Stradivarius Violins is that we'll never understand what makes it special.

We don't really want to know what will make it special. There's a guy who was widely quoted, he's a violinist from America's name is James Eans. Ends. Eans. Ends. Eans. Man. Well, James, his whole view is that he's played a number of Streda Various violins and other stringed instruments

and he said that there's probably a thousand things that make them special. And we can never possibly know what all those thousand things are and there's never just going to be just this one thing that is the key to what made strata various violence so great. Yeah, I think I watched a BBC documentary that was really pretty great and they interviewed another violin maker and he said, you know, it was a right place, right time thing. Like this guy came along, maybe they had this good wood that was special, maybe he had this varnish that was special. Yeah, but they were in the hands of somebody special too.

Well, that was his point. It was that other people were using some of these same things and they turned out very different. He said he was so good at what he did. Like, that's the secret. He was just better at what he did like that's the secret he was just Better at doing this than other people right like how Chris Bosch and Duane Wade brought the best out of LeBron James Well where I think this Texas A&M professor

Erred was that he was so bold as to even Posit the idea that it may have been an accident and that like I would say bold is an appropriate term Yeah, like they turned out this good on accident He didn't know this varnish was gonna do that or the wood may have been even pre-treated with these chemicals He he kind of lucked into what it ended up being yeah, and not that he wasn't talented But like that's why they are what they are and people are like woohoo Blast for me. Yeah out Heretic.

So how much of these things cost? A lot. The end. I saw, I mean, the numbers are all over the place. Like one thing we'll say that the record was $3.54, $4 million. Yeah. And then later on, the record was broken

with $3.6 million with the monitor strativ strativaries owned famously by Moaki Brewer, Paul Molleter. That's where that one got its name. Well, yeah, I agree. And then this says in June 2014, the Kreuzer had a pre-sale estimate of seven and a half million to 10 million. Right. But it failed to reach the reserve price. Right. But then later on, another one sold in 2011 for 16 million. So apparently nobody's really keeping tabs here. I looked down the internet, I couldn't find anything approaching a comprehensive list of

how much these things have gone for, but the fact is millions of dollars. It's tens of millions in some cases from what I understand. And there are collectors, very, very wealthy collectors who are driving the price of strata various violins and other stringents through the roof, where if you were smart enough to buy one for a few hundred thousand dollars 20, 30 years ago, it's worth easily 10, 20 times that now. Yeah, and it's kind of a shame that these aren't in the hands of the great players of the world, you know? Well, they're in the hands of the great players of the world who come from very wealthy families.

Yeah, or who, like you said, bought one 20 or 30 years ago. Right. And that's their, you know, their go-to. But yeah, it's just another fat piggy thing to buy and own and possess. Yeah. The one I have is the most expensive one. Right. Fortunately, the one that's so valuable that it's frequently cited as priceless is the

Messiah. And that is owned by the Ashmoli in Oxford University. Yeah. So that one's not up for grabs. No. Which is cool. Because all the other ones are just operating under that level. Yeah.

And the lady in the BBC documentary is a violinist and she got to hold the Messiah with gloves. And it's called that because there's a nativity scene in late on the back, I believe. Oh, I don't think it's the back. I think it's in the little tailpiece. Oh, okay. But this thing is gorgeous and she was allowed to hold it with gloves, like white cotton gloves.

And the whole time, even though I knew that wouldn't happen, I was like, don't drop it. Yeah, yeah. You know, the slippy little cotton gloves. happen. I was like, don't drop it. Yeah, yeah. You know, the slippy little cotton gloves. Sure. And it just made me nervous watching it. Did you ever see that video of things that were very expensive things that were accidentally broken that I made years back? I remember that.

Yeah. It's just like, it was tough to make. I bet. It's tough to watch too. Yeah. Uh, so over the years, there have been many, many, many, many fakes. As soon as he died, they started pumping out forgeries. And not even forgeries, like just mass-produced violins

that they would throw a label on. At the time, in the 19th century, 18th and 19th century, the people buying the violins knew that they were like knockoff manufactured fakes. Yeah. Largely in Germany, right? Right. But they weren't like, yeah, they weren't being duped. It was like, this is in the style of Stradivarius. Yeah, largely in Germany and Czechoslovakia. And the thing is though, is over time, these water now, pretty old violins, because they were again made in the 18th and 19th century, they had labels on them that would say like

Stradivarius, Cremonisus, Faccebat, Anno, and then say like 1679 or something like that, right? So if you find one of these violins in your attic, and it looks pretty old, it literally says in Italian, this violin was made by Stradivarius in 1679, you could be forgiven to think that you have just found a Stradivarius violin and all of your money problems are over. You can go buy more meth than you'll ever be able to do in your entire life. It might say made in Germany too though. That's a big giveaway.

It is. And apparently if you're in a praser of this kind of thing, you are so sick of people calling you that you can't even hide it when you're interviewed in an article. Yeah, the one guy even said that, he's like, people get angry. When you tell them it's not, he said,

because they think they've got a lottery ticket and you have to break it to him and he said, they get mad on these phone calls. And they're like, well, do you have 20 bucks for a man? That's pretty funny. Do you got anything else? Yeah, if you find a violin and you look it over and it says Strativarius and you look even further

and it doesn't say Made in Germany, fake. If it doesn't say that. I know, but it's still probably a fake. Well, there's a Smithsonian article about it that has basically step-by-step what you can do and who you can submit photos to. To get it basically pre-appraised. Well, not appraised, but just looked at. And they can usually tell from the photos to, to get it basically pre-appraised. Well, not appraised, but just looked at.

And they can usually tell from the photos, like, no, that's a fake. Like, step one, leave it out in the sun and let it get rained on a couple of times. If ants are attracted to it, it's not as stragg. Exactly. Yeah, but one of the appraisers makes the point like, they're about 650 in the world world and they're all basically accounted for

Right. We know where they are. Yeah, and even when we don't know where they are, we know We would know the ones that we don't know where they are when they surface. Yeah, like a stolen one Yeah, there was one that was famously stolen 30 something years ago Mm-hmm from a concert violinist and it was a Stradivarius and it was in the attic of a Milwaukee Thief's house and I guess he died and his girlfriend took it to an appraiser who's like, this is stolen. I know who this is. So it's a very small community. So the idea that somebody's just going to walk up with like a real Stradivarius thing.

That had previously been unknown is it's just most likely not gonna happen. Yeah, one of the other appraisers said it's like finding a new Rembrandt and he said, we know what he painted. Right. We know where they are. Yeah. Now they got computers painting Rembrandt.

Oh yeah, I remember that. Yeah. I think a guy left his strat in the cab a few years ago too. Was it Joshua Bell? Sounds like something that guy would do. He's wacky. Can't remember. I believe that happened though.

Did he get it back? I think so. Only in New York, right? Jeez, can you imagine? No, because again, these are concert violinists who have almost been entrusted by humanity with these things like here This is a very expensive violin. Yes, but yeah We are giving this to you because we think you will enrich this in honor with your playing

And maybe someday it'll be called your last name strata various Play it well, right? Don't leave it in the back of a cab And then that guy had to get on Craigslist and buy a hundred dollar fiddle Yep to play first chair at the Phil of a cab. And then that guy had to get on Craigslist and buy a $100 fiddle. Right. Yep, to play first chair at the Philharmonic. Yeah. Uh... Chuck.

Yes. You got anything else? I got nothing else. I don't need there. Good job putting this together, man. Thanks. If you want to know more about Strada Various, you can search the internet for it

because we don't have an article on how stuff works. Since I said, internet, it's time for listener mail. This is, we'll call this from my good buddy, Bex. Rebecca Bloomfield, she's one of my pin pals from the stuff you should know on. She in prison over the years. She sure is. No, she's on. She imprisoned over the years. She sure is. No, she's not. She's a delight though. And she backed me up on my comments about women in science. So I felt good about it. So I wanted to read it. She made me feel better. I hope you guys had a great

time in the UK. By the way, she just missed our show and I think in London by a couple of days, and she was very bummed out. So she lived there or was she visiting? I think in London by a couple of days and she's very bummed out. Does she live there or was she visiting? I think visiting she now lives somewhere else. So she said, I know you did, I just listened to the delightful history of steam. Anyway, I'm trying to say, bloody well done. Is that a curse word? I think like, it's like, very...

Okay, great. Well done, Chuck, on your comment on what we could have achieved of women had been allowed into the stem fields from the start I know this sort of comment could be a minefield for a guy But I can assure you you made your point really well I'm normally the first to jump on non-feminist comments or mansplaining. That's what I was afraid of So she said I'm usually the first to jump on the mansplaining, and when you said it, I just said, yes, yes, Chuck, very loudly in my office, I even startled the dogs. Raising children is very important, but men can do it too.

All humans of any gender should have a choice as to what they do with their lives. They should not be predetermined because of their gender, so good on you, Chuck. Makes me happy to know that the next generation of women are being raised by men like you. And that's from Bex, Bloomfield. And she is a graphic designer for Little Red Robot Design. Ooh, shout out. And just a nice lady. Nice.

Well, thanks a lot. Bex, can I call her that? Or should I just call her Rebecca? No, you're in the club. OK, well, thanks a lot, Bex, for that email. And for shouting, we that email and for shouting. We appreciate that kind of thing, certainly. If you want to get in touch with us, you can tweet to us at SISK podcast.

You can hang out with us at Facebook.com slash stuff you should know. You can also send us an email to stuffpodcasts.house.forks.com. And as always, join us at our home on the web, stuffyoushedno.com. [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ Stuff you should know is a production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts, my heart radio, visit the I Heart Radio app. Apple podcasts are wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

[♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ They say history is written by the victors, but you know what? They've left out a hell of a lot of juicy stuff. Ah, we all know who invented that, right? We'll think again. Truth is, Alexander Graham Bell stole the idea for the telephone and then claimed it as his own. We're gonna uncover the forgotten pieces of history.

You didn't know you needed to know. Listen to the backstory with me, Patty Steele, twice a week on the iHeart Radio App, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Srir. And I'm Arthie. We have spent the last 20 years building and working at some of the largest companies in the world.

We worked with some remarkable people, Rob McAllenny. When I see the people of Rexon, I grew up exactly like them. Check out the RTN3Rom Show. That is AARTHI and SRIRAM Show. Listen to the RTN3Rom Show on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. This is the story of a man who's fascinated me. His name was Sweet Daddy Grace and not to name you don't forget. He was a visionary who built a fortune as a black man during Jim Crow, during the Depression. But today, not many people know about him.

He raised sort of wiped out and I wonder if this was done intentionally. Listen to Sweet Daddy Grace on the I Heart Radio app Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcast.