Stuff You Should Know - Short Stuff: Fortune Cookies

Episode Date: January 12, 2022

Everything you thought you knew about fortune cookies is wrong. Learn all the right stuff in this episode. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hey, I'm Lance Bass, host of the new iHeart podcast Frosted Tips with Lance Bass. Do you ever think to yourself, what advice would Lance Bass and my favorite boy bands give me in this situation? If you do, you've come to the right place because I'm here to help. And a different hot sexy teen crush boy bander each week to guide you through life. Tell everybody, yeah, everybody about my new podcast and make sure to listen so we'll never, ever have to say bye, bye, bye. Listen to Frosted Tips with Lance Bass on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Hey, and welcome to the short stuff. I'm Josh and there's Chuck and this is short stuff about

fortune cookies, which is jam packed with stuff you didn't know about fortune cookies. You mean the little cookies that taste terrible that come from China? Part of that's right. Yeah. Which part? The taste terrible part. Right. Yeah, I love a fortune cookie. I've never loved eating them, but I've always liked getting that fortune. I've had one or two fortune cookies where I was like, that was all right. I don't know what the deal was. They were freak fortune cookies, I guess, because that is definitely a rarity for sure. But yeah, it's fun. They should sandwich a fortune in the middle of an Oreo.

Yeah, why not? Then that'd be down. So one of the things that I never realized, that I never realized, I didn't realize until I started researching this Chuck, is that the fortune is not actually baked into the fortune cookie. Did you know that? Well, sure. It would catch fire. I didn't ever think about that. I never did. And also, it would be like gross from the batter. A fortune cookie is a little thin wafer cookie. And when you start to cook it, initially it's batter still. So that would make the fortune paper pretty mushy. So all right, Smarki, how do they put the fortunes in the fortune cookie then? What you mean by you never really thought about it was you literally never thought about it for

one second. That's absolutely true. They bake it for a little while first, and then they stick it in there, right? Yeah, bake it and stick it. Bake and stick. And then fold it. Bake, stick, and, well, you got to fold first, right? Or do you bake it a little bit first? No, no, you fold afterward. That's the key. So you bake it as a flat wafer cookie. And then when you pull it out of the oven, it's still pliable. Really quick fold it into that thing with the fortune inside. All right. Well, we joked earlier, I joked about it, coming from China. And you might think that they do because you find them traditionally in Chinese restaurants at the end of a meal. But that is probably not so. But we do have a

couple of reasons why people might think this. And one of them is the fact that this story about mooncakes from China, this food that's kind of associated with the Mid-Autumn Festival when they're celebrating fall harvest. It's a little pastry. It's got a little sweet or savory filling. They're usually round because it's shaped like the moon, but they can be square. And they're baked to a golden brown as far as the Cantonese style go. And they stamp a little name when they're cooking this thing after they mold it. So it's got a little stamp on there. Right, which tells you what's inside. And a lot of times there's stuff like lotus paste, which is sweet bean paste, which is good. Red date paste, which is originally where the word

jujube comes from. And then no matter whether it's salty or savory, from what I understand, the surprise in the middle is one or more salted cured chicken eggs. Yeah. Yolks, duck egg yolks, I'm sorry. Which are, have you ever had one of those? I don't think so. I think I'd probably know if I did. It does not get saltier than that. Like part of your face will just fall right off after a couple of bites. It's crazy. Just rise up and fall. Well, then you will like duck eggs. You can get them at H Mart. They'll have them in like the dairy section. What's H Mart? Oh, it's like the big Asian grocery store, Korean grocery store. I don't know about that. We have our local Japanese store

nearby. No, this is like a supermarket. Okay. It's over on 285 and Peachtree Industrial. Oh, of course it is. Yeah. Go check it out actually. It's really good because not only do they have everything that's Asian in like a supermarket format, Chuck. So like all sorts of stuff you've never heard of to try, they also have the most outstanding food court you will ever encounter in your life. Oh, you know what? I may have been there then. It's really good. Are there like eight restaurants? Yeah. Yeah, I've been there. Okay. Because I'm constantly seeking the best egg roll in Atlanta because Atlanta doesn't do egg rolls right. Oh, yeah, I never really tried them. Yeah, they're the worst. I finally found a place though. Okay.

Anyway, so as the story goes back in the 13th and 14th centuries when China was being occupied by Genghis Khan and the Mongols, legend has it that they didn't like this lotus nut paste. And so when they were warring, the Chinese hid messages about like what they were doing, the date of an uprising maybe, instructions or how to coordinate the battle. And they would stick them in these moon cakes knowing that their message would get through to the Chinese. But because the Mongols didn't like the lotus nut paste, they would just go, ah, and they'd throw it away. Yeah. Can't you see like some Mongol horde being like, what is that? A mooncake? What's in there? They're like cured salted duck egg yolk. Oh, yeah. What else? Lotus nut paste. Oh,

God, get it away from me. Yeah. What else? Oh, just instructions about the invasion. Right, exactly. So that legend apparently is pretty widespread and some people say that's probably where fortune cookies came from, right? Yeah. And I think the other thing too is that when children are born in China, that family send out little cake rolls with messages inside, announcing the birth of the child. So there's these couple of things and the fact, of course, that you get them in Chinese restaurants, most people would just assume that they're from China. Yes. But then most people would be wrong because there is basically no one who's looked into this story or the origin of fortune cookies that is like, yep, they're from China. That's just wrong.

And we'll tell you where they are actually probably from right after this, right, Chuck? me in this situation. If you do, you've come to the right place because I'm here to help this. I promise you. Oh, God. Seriously, I swear. And you won't have to send an SOS because I'll be there for you. Oh, man. And so my husband, Michael, um, hey, that's me. Yep, we know that Michael and a different hot sexy teen crush boy band are each week to guide you through life step by step. Oh, not another one. Kids relationships, life in general can get messy. You may be thinking, this is the story of my life. Oh, just stop now. If so, tell everybody, everybody about my new podcast and make sure to listen so we'll never ever have to say bye, bye, bye. Listen to Frosted

Tips with Lance Bass on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to podcasts. I'm Mangesh Atikler. And to be honest, I don't believe in astrology. But from the moment I was born, it's been a part of my life. In India, it's like smoking. You might not smoke, but you're going to get secondhand astrology. And lately, I've been wondering if the universe has been trying to tell me to stop running and pay attention. Because maybe there is magic in the stars, if you're willing to look for it. So I rounded up some friends and we dove in and let me tell you, it got weird fast. Tantric curses, Major League baseball teams, canceled marriages, K-pop? But just when I thought I had a handle on this sweet and curious show about astrology,

my whole world came crashing down. Situation doesn't look good. There is risk to father. And my whole view on astrology, it changed. Whether you're a skeptic or a believer, I think your ideas are going to change too. Listen to Skyline Drive and the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Where are they from? Japan and America. That's right. Dating back to the 1870s in Kyoto, Japan, they had what were called fortune crackers. Do you want to rattle off that Japanese name? Sugiura Senbei. Man, you've really nailed it. Thank you. Can you actually speak Japanese now? No, I just know how to pronounce

Japanese words when I see them. I didn't know if you were learning a little bit or not. No, it won't stick. I've never sat down and actually really... Well, that's not true. I have tried a couple of times, but I've never gone to class or anything. But for the stuff I have tried to pick up, it's just not stuck so far. How good is Yumi's Japanese? Oh, it's pretty much flawless. Yeah. Well, that's why you don't learn it, because when you go to Japan, you're just like, all right, you've got a translator built in. I'm very lucky too, because it's like a second nature impulse for her to just tell me what's going on rather than just continue on in this conversation. It's really helpful, but yeah, it's tough not to become dependent on that.

She's like, I hate that big dopey. I don't know what's going on face here. Yeah. What's that? What's that? What's that guy doing? Good stuff. I wish Emily spoke something good. What did she speak? What's she doing with her life? She studied French, but like every other kid studied a little bit of French. She doesn't really know any. It's like me and my German. We're useless. I'm with you, like me and French too. But those fortune crackers in Japan from the 1870s are flavored generally with like miso or sesame or something like that, not the fortune cookie that we know. The other differentiator is that the fortunes were tucked into the bend of the fortune cookie. Pretty lazy people in Kyoto. As opposed to where? Inside the actual fortune. Oh, they're

on the outside of the bend? Yeah. Yes. Okay. Yes, which you don't, I mean, that's not good. They didn't, they never learned the bacon stick. No, I guess not. But they did seem to originate something like fortune cookies. The question is, how did that get to America? That's still unclear. So instead we say, okay, where did the actual fortune cookie as we know it came from? And that's actually disputed. But the first, the earliest story is in 1907. And there's a guy named Makoda Hagiwara. And he was the caretaker of the Japanese tea gardens in San Francisco. And there's a story, I've not been actually, it's at Golden Gate Park, right? It's great. I've got to check it out. But Hagiwara-san, he apparently was fired for being Japanese

by the mayor of San Francisco at the time who said, oh, there's a Japanese person taking care of the Japanese tea gardens at Golden Gate Park. Fire that person. Not very San Francisco. No. And apparently Mr. Hagiwara was very beloved and the public came to his aid and made sure that he got rehired. Right. And it's a thank you. He made legit fortune cookies like we know them with little thank you notes inside and gave them out to people who supported him. And like you said, this was 1907. So a lot of people say, well, there you go. Bing, bang, boom. That's when it started in the U.S. Yeah. San Francisco is the home of the fortune cookie. And Los Angeles says, not so fast, everybody. Of course. Not only were we the ones who invented the fortune cookie,

it was actually a Cantonese immigrant from China who invented the fortune cookie. No, not 1907. I don't even believe your story says LA. This happened in 1918. There was a guy named David Jung, founder of the Hong Kong noodle company. And he used to hand out little fortune cookies with little Bible scripture printed on them as kind of a pick me up for people who were unemployed wandering around Los Angeles that he'd encounter. That's right. That's one version of the story. The other is that he created them as little appetizers when people are waiting, very Seinfeldian, waiting for their table at the Chinese restaurant. He would hand them out to people in line as a little aperitif, I guess, to hold you over.

So there was a mock court that was put together in 1983, the court of historical reviews and appeals. I believe they ruled on other stuff previously. But in 1983, they took up the issue of the fortune cookie. And being a San Francisco mock court, they ruled very clearly that San Francisco was the birthplace of the fortune cookie. That's right. LA and San Francisco, they always have hated each other. They're always added over something, you know? And then San Diego is like, what about me? Poor San Diego. They're just down there surfing, bro. Yeah. Remember we did that weird show there and that church or something? Yeah. And for a little while, I was convinced that it was the church from Prince of Darkness, the John Carpenter movie.

But I went back and watched the movie and I was like, this is in it. But it had the same vibe. Yeah. I remember two things about that show. I remember it didn't really have a green room bathroom. So I was just in there peeing in the urinals next to everyone and they were like, oh, there's Chuck. I was like, yeah, that's me. And I remember there was a guy on the front row fully filming the entire thing with a video camera. And he looked mad about it. He was like generating evidence or something. It was weird. So strange. Maybe we'll come back one day, San Diego, if you get your act together. That's right. In the meantime, stay classy. Oh yeah. They were made for about 40 years with chopsticks, which that takes a lot of skill

to fold and make these things with chopsticks, I would think. It's a very Japanese way to make fortune cookies. And it actually was with Japanese bakers in San Francisco who dominated the business from the early 20th century up until World War II when they were forced out of the business, because they were also forced out of their homes after Pearl Harbor. And the Japanese were uprooted and put into internment camps. And one of the outcomes of that was that they stopped making fortune cookies. And apparently this created a vacuum that the Chinese immigrants in the United States stepped into fill. Very nice. Those first fortune cookies in the US did have little proverbs and sometimes scripture, but they started to get a little more English and Americanized by the

1930s. And he started to get some of these Confucius says this kind of things in there. And then poor Richard's Almanac kind of stuff went in there. And then the lottery numbers started creeping in. Never been a big fan of that. No. With the little emoji smiley faces and jokes and stuff like that. Not a big fan of that stuff. No, especially smiley faces, unless there's some other message that makes a smiley face appropriate. I'm all right with that. Just give me a classic fortune. So one of the great ironies of all this, Chuck, is that in the mid nineties, the wonton food company, the world's largest maker of fortune cookies looked around and said, what market have we not penetrated? Europe loves these things.

America loves these things. What about China? China's going to love these too. And it took off like a rocket, right? No, it did not at all. And they basically said they're too American for us. And even though they make four million of these things every day to the tune of about three billion cookies every year, they didn't take off there. They didn't like them. They didn't want them. Yeah. And I did that math and apparently they have two factories because you'd be making about eight million a day to come up with three billion. But who knows? I wouldn't be surprised if that's how much they were making. I mean, those things are flowing like water here in the states. Fuzzy math. Yes, it is. So I want to give a shout out to what's cooking America, LA Times,

Today History, and Jennifer Aitley who popped up and I think our Chinese food on Christmas episode. She wrote the Fortune Cookie Chronicles Adventures in the World of Chinese Food. She did a lot of scholarly research on fortune cookies recently. So hats off to her as well. Nice. And hats off to you guys for listening to this episode of Short Stuff. Short Stuff is away. Stuff You Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts on my heart radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.