Stuff You Should Know - Short Stuff: Friends of Dorothy

Episode Date: March 2, 2022

The gay community had to use code not too many years ago and one way they identified was as “Friends of Dorothy.” So who was Dorothy? Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hey, I'm Lance Bass, host of the new iHeart podcast Frosted Tips with Lance Bass. Do you ever think to yourself, what advice would Lance Bass and my favorite boy bands give me in this situation? If you do, you've come to the right place because I'm here to help. And a different hot sexy teen crush boy bander each week to guide you through life. Tell everybody, yeah, everybody about my new podcast and make sure to listen so we'll never, ever have to say bye, bye, bye. Listen to Frosted Tips with Lance Bass on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Hey, and welcome to the short stuff. I'm Josh, and there's Chuck, and there's Jerry,

and this is short stuff. The slang edition. That's right. And while we are not friends of Dorothy, we are friends of friends of Dorothy. Yeah, well put, man. I wanted to say, hey, we're friends of Dorothy because it seems like it could mean that you're just endorse the LGBTQ community, but that's not what it means. No, it doesn't. It means you're straight up member of the LGBTQ community. That's right. And it's slang. Like I said, it doesn't have any direct meaning or does it, we're going to find out. But the whole reason that you would have slang kind of a coded phrase for being gay is just part of the shameful past of how gay people were treated in Europe and America up until very recently.

Of course. And so there was code that they would use amongst themselves. So they wouldn't, you know, all manner of bad things could happen if word was out about them. So shamefully, they did need code. But like you said in this article that you put together, let's move on to the more fun stuff, which is where this came from. Right. Who is Dorothy? Who is Dorothy? That's the great question. And actually, it's never really been answered to tell you the truth. Supposedly, the whole that phrase, friend of Dorothy, to mean a gay person has been around since the World War II era, says the Pride website. Okay. It's a legit source. But then we head on over to the Wizard of Oz

fan blog, Friends of Dorothy. And they say it doesn't appear in any gay slang books or academic reviews of gay slang in the 20th century, which is really weird because it definitely did exist. It wasn't, you know, it wasn't just me and people I knew using that. Like it was widespread and exactly how old it is really kind of matters, doesn't it? Well, yeah, because we're going to talk about some Dorothy candidates. I feel like we should probably talk about these first three and then take our break and get to the big whammy. You know it. You know exactly what you're doing. Oh, I appreciate that. The first Dorothy we're going to talk about, and there's some legitimacy here for sure, because there was a socialite named Dorothy King

in 20th century London, early 20th century London, and Dorothy King very early on. And London was a friend of the gay community, especially gay men. She would have these big parties and apparently they would use friend of Dorothy or friend of Mrs. King to refer to themselves as slang to get them in these parties or just to talk about them. Yeah, the fact that there's also a friend of Mrs. King meaning the same thing, a gay man in the early 20th century, mid 20th century, that really supports the possibility that she was the original Dorothy. I agree. Okay. The next one is Dorothy Parker. She's also a great contender. She's coming out of not just New York, but also Los Angeles in the 1930s and then later on in the 60s. Those were

the two times that she really had a huge impact and was kind of almost an icon in the gay community, because like Dorothy King, she surrounded herself with gay people at a time when gay people were very much persecuted. And she was also a huge ardent supporter of the civil rights movement as well. Yeah, I did not know about her 60s comeback. I know all about the 30s Dorothy Parker was kind of kind of into researching that for a little while quite a few years ago. Oh, yeah. But did not know about the 60s LA version doesn't surprise me. Pretty cool because I can see her then sitting around a mid-century modern pool doing the same thing she was rocking in the 30s in New York. Yes. But she married a man who was openly bisexual. He referred to himself as quote

queer as a billy goat. So she was very much in the running as a possible Dorothy. Yes. And then lastly, the third of the first three dorthies was a woman named Dorothy Dean. She was an African-American socialite in New York. And she was very much in the orbit of the gay community, especially through Andy Warhol and his gang. And was not like, you know, she's right exactly. Sound like she's kind of like hung out with Warhol every once in a while. Like she was part of Warhol's inner circles would appear in his films. Like she was a bit of a muse for him. And then also as if her cool cred in the art community and gay community couldn't get any better. She was a door, I guess a doorman is what they would have called her in the

unlimberated early 60s. Yeah. If you wanted to be cool back then, you could work the door at one of two places, either CBGB or Maxis Kansas City. And she worked the door at Maxis Kansas City, which was a music club and bar and hangout of the coolest of the cool in the 60s and 70s. Yes. So she knew everybody. And she also had a lot of gay friends too. So it's entirely possible that she was the Dorothy that we spoke of. She couldn't have been the Dorothy if this phrase has been around since World War II. But one of the things that I figured out about this Chuck is that it could have been any of these dorthies. You could use that phrase and it would still hold water at different times depending on the context too. So it's not like any of these are wrong

necessarily. They all win. I agree. But there is one that's actually the winner. That's right. And we'll introduce this winner. And I bet you know who it is right after this. What advice would Lance Bass and my favorite boy bands give me in this situation? If you do, you've come to the right place because I'm here to help. This I promise you. Oh god. Seriously, I swear. And you won't have to send an SOS because I'll be there for you. Oh man. And so my husband, Michael, um, hey, that's me. Yeah, we know that Michael and a different hot, sexy teen crush boy band are each week to guide you through life step by step. Oh, not another one. Uh-huh. Kids, relationships, life in general can get messy. You may be thinking this is the story

of my life. Just stop now. If so, tell everybody, everybody about my new podcast and make sure to listen so we'll never ever have to say bye, bye, bye. Listen to Frosted Tips with Lance Bass on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcast or wherever you listen to podcasts. I'm Mangesh Chitikler and to be honest, I don't believe in astrology. But from the moment I was born, it's been a part of my life. In India, it's like smoking. You might not smoke, but you're going to get second hand astrology. And lately, I've been wondering if the universe has been trying to tell me to stop running and pay attention because maybe there is magic in the stars if you're willing to look for it. So I rounded up some friends and we dove in and let me tell you, it got weird fast. Tantric curses,

Major League Baseball teams, canceled marriages, K-pop. But just when I thought I had to handle on this sweet and curious show about astrology, my whole world came crashing down. Situation doesn't look good. There is risk to father. And my whole view on astrology, it changed. Whether you're a skeptic or a believer, I think your ideas are going to change too. Listen to Skyline Drive and the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Okay, Chuck, it's time for the big reveal. Who is Dorothy for reals? Somewhere over the rainbow. Keep going, I'm not familiar. I don't know the rest of the words. Something cries. There's way up high. Way up high. So who cries? Did no one cry? No, I think you've

misheard it. I think you're right. We're talking about Dorothy Gale, the character in L. Frank Baum's Wizard of Oz book series. And there's a few big time reasons for this, one really big time reason. But the movie Wizard of Oz is special in the LGBTQ community because Dorothy kind of comes out in her own way and undergoes this transformation from a very sort of boring black and white world to a brilliant colorful rainbow-filled world. Yeah, and that's just if you're reading the book. She also, in the book, befriends and accompanies three men, none of whom are traditionally masculine or manly. And there's even a part in the book, well, not the Wizard of Oz, but one of the other books from the Oz series, where another character tells her, Dorothy, you have some queer friends.

And she says, the queerness doesn't matter so long as they're friends. Yeah, I don't know about that part because that's not what queer meant in that context. No, but the point is this, is whether it meant, no, they certainly didn't mean queer is in gay. They just meant strange, unusual. And that's, I think, where queer applied to gay people, especially in the mid 20th century. That's where it came from. I mean, you're weird, you're off or whatever. And Dorothy's saying, it doesn't matter how they're off. It doesn't even matter that they're off. It just matters that they're friends. And I think if you felt alienated, especially if you felt alienated because you were gay, that something like that would have

resonated with you. And I think that's why a lot of gay people, it's very, it's easy to stereotype at this point, because there's probably a lot of gay people who can't stay in Wizard of Oz. But there's a lot of gay people who do love Wizard of Oz. That's right. And one of the big reasons why is because the star of Wizard of Oz was none other than Judy Garland, who is top three gay icon, maybe, I mean, a lot of arguments for number one, but I would say definitely top three. Who are the other two? Oh, well, you know, Lon Cheney Jr. I would say. Well, I don't know. That would be tough because you could throw Cher in there,

you could throw Barbara Streisand in there. Madonna. Certainly Madonna. Madonna. Who? Liberace. Oh, Liberace, of course. So maybe it might be one of those things where the top three is like a list of 10 people. Yeah, I think because we just had so much trouble even nearing it down to top three, she might be the number one then. Maybe, but it's not for us to say anyway, you know? No, it's not. You're right, Chuck. I'm going to say this straight. But Judy Garland is certainly a gay icon. There have been, you know, everything from her funeral, which was attended by more people than Rudolph Valentino to her, I mean, Rufus Wainwright did an entire tour where Rufus sings Judy Garland. Yeah. Yeah, and her funeral, that day of her funeral, later

that night was the Stonewall riot. And a lot of people were like, well, Judy Garland's death kicked off the Stonewall riots, which kicked off the era of civil rights for gay people. And that's apparently been refuted by some people. But other people said, no, that definitely had something to do with that. I bet it was a factor, man. I mean, if you're at a boiling point and then one of your icons and spiritual leaders dies, that'll send you, and if you're at a bar drinking and you're sad about that, that could definitely be the straw that breaks the camel's back. Yeah. And if you're sad about it and everyone with you at that bar is sad about the exact same thing that sense of camaraderie and collectiveness. Yeah, I could definitely translate into that.

And there was also, like, it's really kind of difficult to understate like the impact in the, the, the, what an icon she was, but I saw it, did I say understate? Yeah, I did. It's difficult to overstate it because, but I saw it like really summarized well by this one quote. Some, some writer was describing a bio of her that was first put on as a stage play, but was later produced into Judy starring Renee Zellweger. The stage play was called End of the Rainbow. But the, this writer said that it was explaining that End of the Rainbow was like a gay version of the Passion of the Christ. Very nice. It really kind of gets across like what an icon she is and was in the gay community. Yeah, I'm going to end up with my final verdict being Dorothy

could be a combination of all these dorthies. Totally. And could have been any one of them to different people at different times. So the last thing about this, Chuck, is the slang has actually gone the way of the dinosaur, which is good because that suggests that gay people don't feel the need to encode their gayness nearly as much anymore, if at all in a lot of places, which is wonderful. But before that happened, right before that happened in the late 80s, there was a, an actual witch hunt to root out gay people in the military that was spearheaded by Navy intelligence services and army intelligence. And it was terrible and shameful. And they wasted hundreds of millions of dollars doing this because an admiral vice admiral named Joseph S.

Donnell flipped out at the idea that they were gay men in the military. Apparently he'd never noticed and wasted all this money doing this. But the one good thing that came out of this was this amazing story that I think you should tell everybody. Well, the intelligence, then I say that with quotes around it, got ahold of the friends of Dorothy usage. And they thought that was a real Dorothy that was providing a quarter for gay men in the military and would, where it was this was sympathetic to their cause and aiding and abetting them. And so they spent a lot of money of your tax dollars trying to chase down who Dorothy was because these friends of hers were serving in the military. And they wanted to get her to inform on them. They didn't ever find

her though. That seems like a made up story. It's so great. It does. I saw it in multiple sources though. So I think it's actually real, including the LA times. Yeah. And that's it, everybody. That's it for friends of Dorothy. Now you can say, Hey, I'm a friend of a friend of Dorothy. And people say, What does that mean? You say, Let me tell you. That's right. Okay. Which of course means short stuff is that stuff you should know is a production of I heart radio. For more podcasts, my heart radio visit the I heart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.