Stuff You Should Know - Short Stuff: Skittles and TIO2

Episode Date: March 13, 2024

There’s an ingredient in Skittles and lots of other food that Dunkin Donuts stopped using it in their powdered donuts. Skittles said they were phasing it out too back in 2016 but still haven’t and now the lawsuits flow like The Spice.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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I'm Josh. There's Chuck, Ben, Dave, Gideon. All right. So this is one that is a little frustrating because I found over the years, I think we both agree that it's so hard sometimes to find follow-ups to legal matters. Yeah. Like there's a lot of hay made when a lawsuit is put out, put out there or introduced or whatever. But then it's always so hard to find resolution. And we're talking about the fact that in July 2022, a man in California filed a lawsuit

against Mars, incorporated because of Skittles, and because specifically an additive called titanium dioxide, class action lawsuit that has health risks. And I tried to find a follow up and what I saw that that was dismissed. Oh, was it? I didn't see that. In November, 22, without prejudice. Wow. And that, which means a new lawsuit can happen. And another woman in summer last year, in 2023, like a year later, again in California, has sued again. And I don't know the status of that one.

The reason they're picking on Skittles in particular, it seems like, is because back in 2016 Skittles said to the world, well I should say Mars Inc said to the world, hey, we're not going to use titanium dioxide anymore. We're going to phase it out of our candies, specifically Skittles. And here we are in 2024 and Skittles still has titanium dioxide. In fact, the candy makers or food producers who use titanium dioxide in their products aren't even required to list it as titanium dioxide. It's listed as titanium dioxide, which I take to be a giant FU to all the people who filed lawsuits against Mars for that.

What I don't get is why they would make some big announcement about getting it out of their candy and then keeping it there. I don't know, but I'll bet the CEO that was in charge during that period is no longer there. I bet you're right. They were like, we have bad news. Like we can't make Skittles without titanium dioxide.

And he said, what? So should we talk about titanium dioxide? Yes. All right, titanium is an element in the Earth's crust. It is naturally occurring thing. Not anything unusual about titanium, but when it reacts, interacts with oxygen rather, it forms a white powder, a very fine white powder

called titanium dioxide that evidently is used as a whitening agent Yes, and a lot of processed foods not this is not we're using skittles because there was a lawsuit But this stuff's in a lot of stuff it is and the reason it's a whitening agent is because it reflects Light so well specifically all types of light so well, specifically all types of light, so it appears white. But it reflects it so well. It's used as an ingredient in sunscreen and it's used as an ingredient kind of as sunscreen, UV protectant and other stuff like makeup and toothpaste, right? So it is everywhere. The thing is, is titanium dioxide, it's a naturally occurring thing. Like you said, titanium is natural. So is titanium dioxide.

It's just what happens when titanium comes in contact with oxygen, right? The problem with it being used in the food industry and personal care industry is that it's used in a specific form as titanium dioxide nanoparticles. And we're talking like nano nanoparticles. And we're talking like nanonanoparticles. They're the little tiny particles of titanium dioxide that appear in your food are about 100 nanometers across. Your hair is 80,000 nanometers across. And because they're so small, they can scatter light.

Right, that's the appropriate response to that. They can, the smaller they are, the more effective they are can scatter light. Right. That's the appropriate response to that. The smaller they are, the more effective they are at scattering light. So that's why they want to use those really tiny nanoparticles. But the concern is, because they're so small, it can go to all sorts of different parts of your body. And if it starts to accumulate, it can cause all sorts of problems. That's the basis of that lawsuit. Yeah, they can get the bloodstream. What I want to know is what does that stuff do for a Skittle?

I don't know because it's not like Skittles is white. They know white Skittle? No, I think there actually is a white like special Skittle, like a limited edition, but this is used in regular skills. Maybe it makes them reflective. I don't know. Okay. So we mentioned the nanoparticles. They can get the bloodstream. You said they can accumulate. They can accumulate in your organs, which is pretty scary, especially, I mean any organ, but especially when you're talking about one of your filtering mechanisms

in your body, like your liver or your kidney, if you're trying to filter things and more bad things are going in, that's a problem. Yeah. So we should say specifically there is no peer-reviewed evidence that nanoparticles of titanium dioxide migrate to your liver, your kidneys, or that they accumulate there. There's no evidence whatsoever. And that's what the Titanium Producers Association says. They like to point that out. The Titanium Dioxide Manufacturers Association website says,

there's nothing that says that food grade titanium dioxide is harmful to human health. Just want to put that out there, everybody. That's what they say. But, so it makes sense to be skeptical because what we're talking about here are nothing but animal studies, almost exclusively mouse studies,

and they do cause damage in mice for sure. And they have been shown to inflame tissues in humans when inhaled. You're not inhaling titanium dioxide nanoparticles when you eat skittles. But if you put everything together, yes, it's good to be skeptical, but it's also good to be aware of the concept of xenobiotics and their effect on the human body, as well as the corporate history of food manufacturers putting unsafe harmful products in food long after we've figured out like, no, this is probably a problem. So it's good to use your brain, but also, you know, no, like, there's no, like, smoking gun here that says, yes, titanium dioxide is going to wreck your liver and give you cancer. That's just not there yet. But it's possible enough that people are like, just get that out of there.

Who cares how extra white your, well, you're not eating tide, but your Colgate is. You just, COA, you did a both side COA. That's amazing. That explains why I feel faint. All right, we'll take a break. I'm gonna give Josh some smelling salts and we'll be right back. S-Y-Y-O-Y-S-K-S-K.

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If you want to level up your marketing and business knowledge, then look no further than the Marketing School podcast hosted by Neil Patel and yours truly, Eric Sue. It is the number one marketing podcast in the United States and number 15 on business in the United States. And it has amazing guests such as Alex Hermosi, Layla Hermosi, Cody Sanchez. We pull in these amazing interviews with other people that are not only great marketers but actual operators. And the icing on the cake is Neil and myself were also operators as well. So we share learnings from the trenches,

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if it doesn't exceed 1% of the food's weight, then it's all fine and dandy. However, there are companies and nations and continents that are getting rid of this stuff. In 2015, Dunkin' Donuts said, you know what, we're not going to use titanium dioxide anymore in our powdered trigger toppings. The EU, of course, they're always first in line saying, we don't need that stuff. Let's just get rid of it. Let's ban it.

They're always the first in line saying that can harm people who we care about. Yeah, exactly. Dang socialist nanny state. So you mentioned that the titanium, you know, big titanium dioxide is like, hey, you guys don't need to worry about this. It's in such small levels. It's not a big deal. And like, you know, you'd have to be a real small kid to really get the worst effect. Like, oh, I don't know, kids who eat Skittles. Right.

Yeah. That's a big one. So the environmental working group released a paper a little while ago that said that this stuff is in thousands of children's sweets as an ingredient. And yeah, if you're small, if this stuff does accumulate at all, the smaller the body, the more impact that accumulation is probably gonna have. the more impact that accumulation is probably going to have. And it has been shown to make it through the gut. Like it does make it into the body beyond just your digestive system. But as the Titanium Dioxide Manufacturers Association points out, food grade titanium

Or yeah food-grade titanium dioxide called E171 It can't have more than 40% Titanium dioxide to it and the nanoparticles I should say and that I guess poison org Which is the national poison control centers website said that I thought that was the band's website. Is that right? No, there's poison.edu.net is that not right? No, there's poison.edu. So the National Poison Control Center says that one-tenth of one percent of the titanium dioxide that is in your food stuff, which is just one percent of the food by weight, so a very, very tiny fraction, passes through the gut and makes it into the rest of your body. So there's just again two ways of looking at this. It does get out of your gut it into the rest of your body. So there's just again two ways

of looking at this. It does get out of your gut and into the rest of your body where it may accumulate if you eat enough Skittles or Starburst or something like that. But there's no studies yet that show that it actually causes any harm. My whole deal is like, just why? Just don't put it in there and no one will ever notice or care Frankly if Dunkin Donuts can do without it for their powdered donuts then you can do it for Skittles because There's I genuinely don't understand why it's in there. I saw one place where it's used as a flavor enhancer Everyone else says it's a color enhancer. So maybe it has something to do with the flavor of Skittles. I don't know.

I also saw that if it is used as a flavor enhancer, it's mustard. And I don't remember any mustard flavored Skittles. Gross. That could be pretty gross. It could also be great. I haven't decided yet. But yeah, I'm with you. I don't understand why it has to be in there.

Like, I think it's one of the things where no consumer would notice. And of course I say that and then a bag of Skittles comes out like a, why it has to be in there. Like, I think it's one of the things where no consumer would notice. And of course I say that and then a bag of Skittles comes out like a solid weird lump, like a pebbly brick. With hair growing on it. I'm like, what the hell is this? I mean, I don't eat Skittles anyway

and Ruby doesn't eat a lot of candy. It's weird. Yeah, I've always liked candy. I like fruit candy, I like chocolate candy. I do like Skittles. I love Starbursts. They have it in there too. So yeah, I mean, I'm probably riddled with titanium dioxide.

I think you'll be right. You got anything else? I got nothing else. Okay, well then we're done talking about titanium dioxide for now, and short stuff is out.