Stuff You Should Know - Should chimps be used for medical testing?

Episode Date: March 13, 2012

If you've got half a heart it's an easy question to answer. But if you're happy living without polio and hepatitis B you may want to question further. Learn about what makes chimps special and the history of medical testing in this episode. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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They just have way better names for what they call, like what we would call a jackmove or being robbed. They call civil acid. Be sure to listen to the war on drugs on the iHeart Radio App, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Brought to you by the reinvented 2012 Camry. It's ready, are you? Welcome to Stuff You Should Know from HowStuffWorks.com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark with me as always is Charles W. Chuck Bryant, and that makes the Stuff You Should Know the podcast.

The Chimpanzee Centric Podcast. Frequently. I told you about the time that Chimp held my hand, right? Yeah, that was just the best thing ever. Yeah. I mean, I think about it today my heart melts a little. Just a little? Just a little. You're a weepy guy. Yeah, this is like 10, 12 years ago, and it's still warm off. Yeah, it's still melting though by degrees. Do you think it will melt forever? Every time I think of that little chimp holding my hand, it will melt a tiny bit. Why don't you just go buy a chimp and you can have it happen all the time. Dude, if I didn't have three dogs and two cats, I would have a chimp in my house. Would you really, even after that one story, remember when we started blogging it happened, that chimp at the face? Yeah, I would

because that was such a big deal. It made the news, and I don't think it just, that didn't happen all the time. Okay. I would totes have a chimp. When did you start talking like that? You're talking like my friend Adam, and it's unnerving. Adam says totes? Oh, yeah. I think he's funny. He talks like that, like everything's abbreviated. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Emily and I do that. I'm totes on the totes train. Yeah. Are you? I just think it's funny. Jerry's laughing. She just doesn't start saying natch. Okay. Oh, that's old school though. I know. I still don't like it. All right. I never did. Totes I can handle more than natch. Okay. Okay. You ready? Yes. Okay. Chuck, I want to tell you about a certain lady. Her name is Wanka. Okay. And she has kind of a rough life story. Let's hear

it. She was born into a family in disarray, you might say. She was born in 1954. And when she was just two years old, her mother died after being mistakenly poisoned. Her mother's father, her grandfather, he was a morphine addict who died as a result of his addiction. Her grandmother, maternal grandmother died of dysentery. On her father's side, she was one of 40 grandkids. Wow. Can you believe that? She was adopted out at a very young age, but returned back home at age three at 15. 15. She had her first daughter and her daughter was born with Down syndrome. Wow. She died at 17 months. Eventually, Wanka went on to have another boy and a boy and another girl. And here's the mind-blowing part. She's a chimpanzee. What? Yes. Wow. I did not see that coming.

I know. I was sitting there like, how is there a way to do this at the top of the Chimp podcast? That's great. Somebody not know. Because it sounded like you were talking about a human story. But think about all of the stuff that her family went through. If they were humans, wouldn't she feel pretty bad for her? Yeah. Well, feel bad for Wanka too. And here's why. She is, as far as anyone knows, the oldest primate in captivity that's still being used for research. How old is she? She's here in Atlanta. Well, she was born in 1954. Oh, okay. And she's been experimented on ever since she went back to the Yerkes-Primean Institute at age three. And her mom, the one who was mistakenly poisoned, was one of the original ones that Yerkes got his hands

on in the, what, the 40s, right? No, the 30s, the 20s. Well, in the 20s is Robert Yerkes started messing around with behavioral research, not as much medical research. No. And at first. You think like, oh, well, that's, that's way better. But if you have you looked into some of the behavioral experiments that they were conducting, I'm sure it's not fun. So like one one young chimp from, I believe, for the first 36 months of his life, had like plastic or some sort of obstruction over his hands and his feet. So he couldn't use either of them for the first three years of life. A lot of social isolation, like chimp spent the first two, three years of life without seeing, hearing, touching anybody else. It's like a little Albert stuff. Yes. Very much so.

Wouldn't it? A little Albert? Yeah. A little Albert was on a human though, the fear conditioning. The equivalent to that was Harry Harlow's experimentation of separating chimps from their mothers, right? And raising them with like wire and cotton, fake reconstructions that they would cling to and treat as their mother. Because what he found from these experiments is that moms are really important. That's the saddest thing I've ever heard. Yeah. All right. So we're talking about, we started this off on a Well, I mean, this isn't the brightest of topics. Although the ending is fairly uplifting. Yeah, it is. Or at least headed that way. Yeah. We won't ruin it. So Chuck, let

me set you up here. We have only just in the last few years come to think that animals deserve some sort of rights, right? It's a very new idea, isn't it? It is newish. Okay. For sure. Like maybe 18th century, newish. Yeah. England leads the way. Yeah. Our British friends passed the first anti cruelty laws against animals in 1822. Well, even before that, Jeremy Bentham, he wrote a paper on how animals could possibly suffer and maybe we should start treating them differently. Late 1700s. Yeah. Kudos to him. Yeah. And did you know that he is mummified and they bring his body out for some annual dinner for dancing with the stars at the college? He's a judge at the college where he was a professor. I believe they bring his body out for dinner every

year. Wow. Isn't that crazy? That's a little weird. Yeah. Well, good for him. Still looks great, by the way. Does he really? So PETA didn't start until 1980. A lot of people might think that PETA has been around since the 60s or so. Yeah. I was surprised to see that. Fairly new. And then the American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals was started in 1866. Right. So pretty new in a worldview. Right. But in a big picture. Specifically, and that's general animal rights. Yeah. But chimps in particular, they're I guess the idea that they maybe deserve even more special rights than the average lab rat is based on something that's also fairly recent, which is the discovery or the idea that we share a tremendous amount of similarity with them. There's no other

animal that is closer to humans than chimps. Right. Yeah. I think the number is just over 98%. 95% of DNA sequence, 98 to 99% of DNA. Base pairing? The other part. I can't remember what it's called. I should have written that down. Well, no, that's very like people throw that out like chimps are 98% similar to humans. And that's very misleading. Yeah. Like you said, the genetic sequence of the chromosomes that we share or that are similar in apes and humans are 98% similar. Okay. We're not, it's not like if you took our DNA and put it side by side. Right. Only 2% would be different. Right. Right. It's not like that. And in fact, chimps have 10% more DNA than humans do. Oh, really? Yeah. That's very misleading

to say. But the point is, right, they are very genetically similar, probably more than any other animal. And we've known that since the 20s. Yeah. And similar enough to that at a certain point, people said, you know what, we've experimented on human prisoners long enough. And they say, we can't do it anymore, which is a drag. So let's get these chimps in here and give them disease. And here we reached the title of the podcast. There is as much as we would like to think that it is a very easy, moral, ethical question. Like, should chimps be used for medical research? It's not. No. Because if you, as we were saying before, if you like walking around not having polio or hepatitis B, you can go ahead and thank a chimp for volunteering. I'm sorry, wait, that

was the absolute worst word I could have used for being a, basically, a test animal on those vaccines and treatments. Same with contraceptives. Yeah. If you like our understanding of addiction, you can thank chimps for that. For being a space animal, let's go ahead and call that out. That's where it all began. The U.S. Air Force said, hey, we got a space race going on. Right. Let's go get some chimps from the wild, shoot them up into space, put them in sled cars, test G-forces on them, see what can happen. Put them on the G-wiz rocket sled. I guess what's his face was getting a little tired at that point. Colonel Stapp. Yeah. He couldn't see because of all the blood pooled in his retinas. So pre-NASA, the Air Force went and got 65 chimpanzees from the wild. And a lot of these

chimps are used today are descendants of those original chimps because they couldn't keep going to get them after the convention on international trade and endangered species in 75. Which basically said, hey, man, you can't just start going and grabbing chimpanzees or other animals out of the wild. They're in danger. Exactly. So they started breeding these chimps. Right. The ones that they already had after sites was passed, they said, okay, well, we'll just start making them here in America. Making them. Made in America. Yes. Chimps. And I did find it odd, or not odd, but a little like distressing that some of those, a lot of these chimps today are descended from those original 65. Yeah. Because of breeding. It makes sense. But who knew? Well, same with Yerkes. His primates

that he had in the 20s, those original four, that was the captive breeding program as well. Oh, yeah. I think he definitely supplemented them with imports, you know, because it was prior to sites, but he had, you know, breed, bred, he bred them. They bred. They breded. They did it. Yeah. And like you pointed out, we should say that Yerkes is now in Atlanta here at Emory University. Yeah. After being in Florida for 20 some odd years, they moved to Atlanta and sponsored by Yale before. Yeah. And they got 2.5 acres at the main station here in Atlanta. And then in Lawrenceville, just up the road, they have the field station, 117 acres of chimpanzee breeding and testing facilities. Yeah. It's where chimps go to get their drugs. Chimpanzees are endangered. They're

native to Africa. And because of their similarities, they thought, you know, this HIV thing in the 80s, maybe we should start injecting these chimps and see how and if they develop AIDS. That's what changed everything. The combination of sites and the appearance of AIDS combined with chimp similarity like really changed everything. We had a captive breeding program. The federal government sponsored it. And so it became very, very big. A mysterious new disease. Yeah. The fear of AIDS and HIV was so enormous that within just a few years of this captive breeding program that was started by the National Institutes of Health in 1986, I think maybe within a year or two, there were, I think, 500 chimps running around with HIV. That's right. The big problem was,

as we soon found out, that while they can carry HIV, and chimps are the only other animal besides humans that can contract HIV because cats have their own, dogs have their own, other apes and primates have their own, but only humans and chimps can have HIV. That's right. We found that chimps don't get AIDS. They don't move into full-blown AIDS. Yeah, at least not like humans do. And so it was kind of a big failure on that front. And all the progress we've made on AIDS research has been because of human experimentation, basically. Or watching and seeing. Well, yeah. This is another way to put it. 1966, the Animal Welfare Act outlined minimum care requirements for all animals in captivity. Right. So these chimps were, you know, before the sites program,

the ones that they were importing, they still had some sort of protection, but it wasn't, you know, there weren't that many bells and whistles. It was pretty, pretty Southwest Airlines, not really Singapore air, you know? I would thought you would have said like Virgin Atlantic or something. Is Singapore air really nice? Really? It's up there with like Emirates, Emirates, Singapore. Japan Airlines is pretty nice too. Concord. Remember that? Yeah, we should do one on that. Do you remember the time that Phil Collins played a show in London? Live Aid. And then was it for Live Aid? He played two shows in two different continents within like five or six hours of each other. Awesome. Thank you, Concord. Thank you, Phil Collins. Yeah.

Well, I thought that might go without saying. I can just open my shirt and show you my t-shirt to say that. And by the way, that's a huge urban legend that he saw his girlfriend's rapist in the audience drowning. Not true. Makes for a good story, though. No, no. The war on drugs impacts everyone. Whether or not you take drugs. America's public enemy number one is drug abuse. This podcast is going to show you the truth behind the war on drugs. They told me that I would be charged for conspiracy to distribute 2,200 pounds of marijuana. Yeah, and they can do that without any drugs on the table. Without any drugs. Of course, yes, they can do that. And I'm the prime example of that. The war on drugs is the excuse

our government uses to get away with absolutely insane stuff. Stuff that'll piss you off. The property is guilty. Exactly. And it starts as guilty. It starts as guilty. Cops. Are they just like looting? Are they just like pillaging? They just have way better names for what they call, like what we would call a jackmove or being robbed. They call civil acid for it. Be sure to listen to the war on drugs on the iHeart Radio App, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. How's that New Year's resolution coming along? You know, the one you made about paying off your pesky credit card debt and finally starting to save a retirement? Well, you're not alone if you haven't made progress yet. Roughly four in five

New Year's resolutions fail within the first month or two. But that doesn't have to be the case for you and your goals. Our podcast, How to Money can help. That's right. We're two best buds who've been at it for more than five years now. And we want to see you achieve your money goals. And it's our goal to provide the information and encouragement you need to do it. We keep the show fresh by answering listener questions, interviewing experts, and focusing on the relevant financial news that you need to know about. Our show is chock full of the personal finance knowledge that you need with guidance three times a week. And we talk about debt payoff. If let's say you've had a particularly spend thrift holiday season, we also talk about building up your savings, intelligent

investing, and growing your income. No matter where you are on your financial journey, How to Money has got your back. Millions of listeners have trusted us to help them achieve their financial goals. Ensure that your resolution turns into ongoing progress. Listen to How to Money on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right, getting back to Animal Welfare Act, you said it was didn't have the bells and whistles. Said temperatures had to stay between 45 and 85 degrees Fahrenheit. Not bad. Keep them comfortable. Yeah. Gotta give them food and water. Gotta isolate the sick ones, even though you can get a waiver on that, if they're supposed to be sick among their friends. Right. I imagine

that wasn't too hard to get that exception. Right. And basically it applied to all chimpanzees for both biomedical and behavioral research, which was good. And all animals, any animal that's being experimented on, any warm-blooded animal. Or in captivity, period. Okay. Like I think it just applied to zoos and everything. Gotcha. That's good. Yeah. So we had that in place in 66. Sites came along in 75. The chimpanzee breeding program came along in 1986. And then when that collapsed and failed, the US government was like, Oh, what are we going to do here? We've got literally hundreds of chimps running around with HIV. They're like, if they come in contact with people, especially sickos, it could spread. Right. Well, and they don't live to be 12. No, they live to be 60. Yeah.

So that's, and they cost money to, you know, house and feed. About 15 bucks a day. Yeah. So. Doesn't sound like a lot, but it adds up. That adds up, especially when there was only about, I think, 500 that had HIV, but there was something on the order of like 12 to 1500 that were, that the government was responsible for. And it wasn't just the failure of the HIV aid studies. You can thank Jane Goodall and groups like PETA and the ASPCA and the Humane Society in the early 80s around this time when CHIMP research was really at its peak for kind of alerting the public to the cruelty of animal testing and research. The army of the 12 monkeys. Yeah. You can thank them. I did.

We should talk a little bit about the Calston or Colston Foundation. That is now defunct. It was shut down in 2002. And here's the deal. It's controversial, depending on who you asked. Frederick Colston was the guy who was a toxicologist who helped develop treatment for malaria and hepatitis B and AIDS. Or it was a house of horrors. And he performed experiments on human prisoners and then moved to CHIMPs. And you know, when one test, CHIMPs had their teeth smashed in with a steel ball so they could practice reconstructed reconstructive dental surgery. In 1995, three CHIMPs were cooked to death when the temperature in their, and this is New Mexico, in their unmonitored enclosure

topped 140 degrees. Oh my gosh. And since 1993, 33 CHIMPs and I think 40, like 45 animals and all died, quote, unintended deaths at the Colston Foundation. So, you know, it sounds like some awful, awful thing going on. But then again, he's developing these treatments for these awful diseases. So, it's a very dicey situation. Oh, it is. But they were shut down in 2002 because negligent care on a lot of fronts. Yeah. And any, I mean, there are plenty of people who have like a really good, they have really good ground to stand on by saying like any animal testing is bad and it doesn't matter how well you treat these animals, like shouldn't be experimenting on it. Where they put on this earth to test to save humans. Some people back that some people don't.

Right. So, oh, you know, very recently, I saw there was some researcher associated with the Center for Great Apes. Yeah. Yeah. Apparently, there's like a number of them. And one of them's in Des Moines. And apparently, somebody slashed the heels of an infant CHIMP to keep it from being able to stand upright. And this is like December, like a couple months ago. Wow. So, one of the researchers acted as a whistleblower. Yeah. Or for a test, not that I don't think that was the, I don't think that was the experiment. I think it was related to it. Okay. But one of the researchers there was like, I'm getting this CHIMP and all the rest of them out of here and taking them down to another Center for Great Apes. The main one in Florida. Yeah. Well, just to finish up on the

Coulson Foundation, the good news is as of 2010, about half of the TCF CHIMPs are now living at Save the CHIMPs, which is basically where you want to be if you're a retired CHIMP. Yeah. Swinging, playing, running around, eating bananas, holding hands, all that good CHIMP stuff. So, well, let's talk about this. That's the result of a, that sea change that was started by Jane Goodall and PETA and the Animal Liberation Front. And Matthew Broderick. Yeah. What was the name of that? Project X. That's right. And interestingly, real quick, I just saw today, I didn't realize this. Project X was a movie that raised awareness for mistreatment of CHIMPs, obviously, in medical research. But Bob Barker at the time accused them of mistreating animals on

the set. Yeah. He was a huge, huge animal cruelty guy. And he got sued for defamation for that. Really? Yeah. And settled out of court, actually. Against his wishes, he settled out of court, because he still believed that they were mistreated and like said that there were like clubs and billy clubs and batons used and they used like a snake to scare the CHIMPs and stuff to get reactions. Yeah, but that was just a joke. That was just a, you know, a prank on set in between takes. Yeah. But yeah, Project X. Go see it, Helen Hunt. Go see it in the theater near you. In your time machine. Did you see the Ferris Buehler commercial at the? I saw it out of the corner of my eye. At the superb owl? Were you disgusted?

I was looking forward to it because I heard about it beforehand and it was pretty bad. Was it? Yeah. Hey man, he's got to support his kids. Oh dude, I'm sure he made a mint. Good for him. So okay, we were talking about Matthew Broderick in his career. Yes. Which led directly to a sea change in how people feel about animal testing and specifically about chimpanzee testing, which is kind of evidenced by the fact that Congress in its endless ability to pass legislation with cutesy names and acronyms. I know this one will surprise me even. In 2000, Congress passed the Chimpanzee Health Improvement Maintenance and Protection Act and guess what that spells out? Chimp. Yeah. They passed the Chimp Act in 2000 and basically this said

your captive breeding program is gone. Once a chimp is retired from biomedical testing or behavioral testing, I believe too, you can't kill it. Sorry. All those monkeys running around with HIV, you can't euthanize them. You have to provide for their care for the rest of their lives, their natural lives, which is pretty cool. It's bad enough that you've given them HIV, at least care for them. But this extends only as far as I know to federally funded Chimp programs. Pharmaceutical companies that own, it's federally funded and pharmaceutical companies, all the chimps in the United States are owned by them that aren't pets, I should say. Right. Pharmaceutical companies exist outside of this act, of course.

So Josh, if I were to ask you how many countries in the world still experiment on chimpanzees legally, what would be your answer? I would say, since the United States is such a standard bearer of human rights and animal rights, that if the United States still allows it, at least 90 to 105 other countries allow testing on chimpanzees. Am I right? You did a very good job of playing dumb there, by the way. No, United States and Gabon are the only two countries in the world that still perform biomedical testing on chimpanzees. 97 Great Britain said no more. Netherlands in 2002, I can't even speak Dutch, that would be a travesty. Sweden in 2003, Austria 2006, Japan 2006. Everyone said we're drawing a line in the sand. United States still

allows it. But two months ago, three months ago, December of last year, big news, the NIH suspended all new grants for biomedical and behavioral research. On chimps or apes, the great apes, which by the way, the great apes are chimps, gorillas, bonobos, and orangutans. Correct. So they suspended all new grants. That doesn't mean that you can't test anymore, but they basically established some pretty rigorous criteria moving forward, which means it's got to be necessary for human health, and there must be no other possible way to accomplish it. And basically, it's kind of being looked at as the beginning of the end, because they're finding that nowadays, with cultures and cellular research, you don't need to experiment on chimps anymore. You can

find out all you need to know. Right. Petri dish. Yeah, the NIH said, hey, over the next four years, we're going to hypercharge our biomedical testing. Yeah. So we, like you said, it can just exist in the Petri dish from now on. We don't have to, well, basically single-celled animals that are going to start to bear the brunt of our desire, ceaseless quest for immortality. But you can't hold the hand of an amoeba. No, but if you could, I'll bet it would melt you too. Hepatitis C, apparently, is one of two areas that they think it could still be useful for. But it sounds like they're genuinely phasing it out. That's great. It's about time. It is. After that, it'll just be on Gabon. So hats off to places like Save the Chimps, and what were some of the other ones?

The Center for Great Apes, which, by the way, I don't want to defame them at all, not even for legal reasons. Like, they do a good job. Sure. I looked them up. I looked up Save the Chimps. Chimp Haven. The Great Ape Project. I found one in Massachusetts. And if you go on some of, like, the charity watches and rating sites, there's nothing bad for them, except for the fact that they haven't filed with the IRS, even though they should, for some reason. This Morningstar doesn't have anything on them. They use golden laptops. All of them seem to be legit. But the Great Ape Project, the one that's mentioned in this article that lobbies on behalf of the Great Apes for testing and basically animal rights, they're located in Brazil. I keep thinking you're saying

Great Ape. Yeah. The Great Ape Project. The Center for Great Apes is Bonafide and good too. I couldn't find much on anything that seemed to smack of like the Colston Foundation or anything like that. Yeah. Well, the Colston Foundation actually morphed into Save the Chimps. Okay. So, yeah, yeah. That's in Florida, right? Yeah. Fort Pierce. Yeah. And along with Chimp Haven and the Fauna Foundation, they're, you know, they're chimp sanctuaries. It's a nice thing. Yeah. Yeah. So, I guess go there. Give them some money. Ask in exchange for a chimp to hold your hand. Do not feed chimps antidepressants and keep them at your house. Does that happen to the one? Yeah. Remember, the woman was like, oh, yeah, he's on antidepressants. He shouldn't have done this

and everybody's like, wait, what did you just say? She's like, nothing. Do you remember? I don't remember the antidepressants. Yeah. It came out like a coach on like the Ted A show or something like a couple of days after she was like, I had him on antidepressants. I don't know what happened. Boy, she was messed up too. Was she? Oh, yeah, she was. It was pretty gnarly. Oh, the lady. Yeah, the victim. Yeah. Yeah, that was something. Man. Okay. Well, we were all over the place there. Yeah. If you can figure out where we stand on this, hats off to you. You got anything else about chimps? Four great apes? No. What are the four great apes? Chimpanzees, orangutans, macaws. No, wait, that's a bird. Yeah. Macabs. No.

Clint Eastwood. That's every which way, but loose. That's an orangutan. Yeah. Clyde, right? Right turn, Clyde. Bonobos. Bonobos. Or bonobos, orangutans, gorillas and chimps. That's right. Inhumans. Zippy the Chimp was my favorite toy growing up. Had a little hand you could squeeze and it made a little squeaky noise. So yeah, that was my favorite little toy, Zippy the Chimp. Awesome. I bet you I can get one on eBay. Okay. Because mine is probably, you know, disintegrated because I'm 90. I'm glad somebody finally said that. The war on drugs impacts everyone, whether or not you take drugs. America's public enemy number one is drug abuse. This podcast is going to show you the truth behind the war on drugs.

They told me that I would be charged for conspiracy to distribute 2200 pounds of marijuana. Yeah, and they can do that without any drugs on the table. Without any drugs, of course, yes, they can do that. And I'm the prime example of that. The war on drugs is the excuse our government uses to get away with absolutely insane stuff. Stuff that'll piss you off. The property is guilty. Exactly. And it starts as guilty. It starts as guilty. The cops, are they just like looting? Are they just like pillaging? They just have way better names for what they call like what we would call a jackmove or being robbed. They call civil acid for it. Be sure to listen to the war on drugs on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your

podcast. How's that New Year's resolution coming along? You know, the one you made about paying off your pesky credit card debt and finally starting to save a retirement? Well, you're not alone if you haven't made progress yet. Roughly four in five New Year's resolutions fail within the first month or two. But that doesn't have to be the case for you and your goals. Our podcast, How to Money, can help. That's right. We're two best buds who've been at it for more than five years now and we want to see you achieve your money goals. And it's our goal to provide the information and encouragement you need to do it. We keep the show fresh by answering list of questions, interviewing experts and focusing on the relevant financial news that you need to know

about. Our show is chock full of the personal finance knowledge that you need with guidance three times a week. And we talk about debt payoff. If let's say you've had a particularly spend thrift holiday season, we also talk about building up your savings, intelligent investing and growing your income. No matter where you are on your financial journey, How to Money has got your back. Millions of listeners have trusted us to help them achieve their financial goals. Ensure that your resolution turns into ongoing progress. Listen to How to Money on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Okay, well, that's it for chimps then. I was not expecting you to mention that when I said, do you have anything else?

Yeah, I just actually just remembered about Zippy the Chimp. First time I've thought about that like 20 something years. That's good. Okay. If you want to learn more about chimps and biomedical testing, including the delightfully named Chimp Act of 2000, you can type in, what's it called Chuck? What happens to chimps use the medical research or any one of those? Kristen Conger, right? Yeah, she wrote both of the ones we recorded today. This is the Zarkia. Hey, Conger Day. And the search bar at HowStuffWorks.com. And if let's see, I said HowStuffWorks.com and search bar, right? Just now. So of course, as ever, without interruption or fail, it's time for listener mail. Except what? That there's interruption and fail.

What? What? You wanted to talk about our million. What's it called the million? March? March for the millions? The million dollar march. Million dollar march. March for the millions. That's good too. March for the million sounds more like a car sweepstakes or something like that. The million dollar march on Kiva, our Kiva team, is rounding the band toward, toward having lent a million dollars. That's just baffling to me. By the end of March. Yeah. We're well on the way. We're assured by Glenn and Sonia. And yeah, we are the official team captain's down. So we set the goal. You set the goal, didn't you? Yeah, I typed it up. It's nice of you. But we are not

snobs. Our Kiva team is extremely open and accepting. And if you'd like to join and lend, don't just join. Why would you just join and not lend? That's weird. People do it. I get joining Facebook and just stalking people. Right. Or just like sitting there and saying like, okay, I'm here. Yeah. I'm not going to do anything on it. This is, this is different. This team is all about action, baby. Just one loan. Just do one loan or do several. Well, sure. But the team's very supportive. The message board is very helpful. If you have any questions you can ask and people will tell you. And you can say, Hey, I think this people need these people need their loan fulfilled, help them and people will go and it's fun. It's cool. Agreed. But we are almost $2

a million. And if you want to join and help, you can join us on www.kiva.org slash team slash stuff you should know and join up and start lending. And it'll be cool. And you know, we don't mind if you join up here at the last minute and kind of receive some of the credit as, Hey, I helped them reach a million bucks even though I just joined a month ago. Who cares? We love that. Bandwagon ears are welcome. Yes, that's fine. As long as you're doing some good. Yeah, I agree. And I guess that's it, huh? That is it. If you want to get in touch with us, you can send us a tweet to sysk podcast. You can join us on Facebook at facebook.com slash stuff you should know. Again, join our Kiva team, kiva.org slash team slash stuff you should know.

And you can send us an email to stuff podcast at discovery.com. Be sure to check out our new video podcast stuff from the future. Join house to pork staff as we explore them as promising and perplexing possibilities of tomorrow brought to you by the reinvented 2012 Camry. It's ready for you. The war on drugs is the excuse our government uses to get away with absolutely insane stuff stuff that'll piss you off the cops. Are they just like looting? Are they just like pillaging? They just have way better names for what they call like what we would call a jackmove or being robbed. They call civil asset. Be sure to listen to the war on drugs on the iHeart radio app,

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