Stuff You Should Know - Sitcoms Part II

Episode Date: September 22, 2022

Listen in now for part II of our homage to sitcoms. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hey, I'm Lance Bass, host of the new iHeart podcast Frosted Tips with Lance Bass. Do you ever think to yourself, what advice would Lance Bass and my favorite boy bands give me in this situation? If you do, you've come to the right place because I'm here to help. And a different hot sexy teen crush boy bander each week to guide you through life. Tell everybody, yeah, everybody about my new podcast and make sure to listen so we'll never, ever have to say bye, bye, bye. Listen to Frosted Tips with Lance Bass on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to podcasts. I'm Munga Chauticular and it turns out astrology is way more widespread than any of us want to

believe. You can find in Major League Baseball, International Banks, K-pop groups, even the White House. But just when I thought I had a handle on this subject, something completely unbelievable happened to me and my whole view on astrology changed. Whether you're a skeptic or a believer, give me a few minutes because I think your ideas are about to change too. Listen to Skyline Drive on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeart Radio. Stuff You Should Know is recorded in front of a live studio audience. Hey and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh and there's Chuck and this is part two of our

very special two-part episode on sick comms. Sick comms, everybody. That's right. We're going to shoot for 30 minutes here. If you remember in episode one, we explained all about how sick comms are made in the history of sick comms. And today we begin with part two of whether or not these things were successful and boy were they. Yeah, apparently between 1950 and 2019, the top-rated show for the entire year, in America at least, was a sick comm for 26 different seasons. So that's a pretty significant number considering there's all sorts of different kinds of shows. Sick comms are not the only kind of show out there. Yeah, that's 40%. I guarantee you that between 1950 and 2000, that number is more

like 80%. Yeah, I would also say especially if you were going from 1970 to 2000, it's probably 100%. Yeah, you're probably right. 104% as an homage to our administration episode, which we I biffed pretty bad. Well, we both biffed that. Here's a remarkable statistic though. If you refer back to our Nielsen ratings episode, I love Lucy in 1952-1953 had a 67.3 Nielsen rating, which meant that close to 70% of every household in the United States was watching that TV show. Okay. That's crazy. And it's the highest season rating for any TV show ever, but Chuck, and Ed uses for comparison, the highest-rated show in 2001 was Friends and they had a 15. Lucy had a 70, right? And Friends was huge. Friends was huge. Consider this though, Lucy had it way

easier. There were fewer TVs and fewer shows to choose from when Friends came around. Is this when he punch holes in it? Yeah, because let's say 10 people had a TV, Lucy had seven of them watching, but Friends, you know, 500 million TVs were out there and 15% of them were tuned to it. So if you really think about it, Friends was more dominant than Lucy. Yeah, we should call this section in defense of Friends or why I learned to hate I love Lucy. It's not that and I'm also not defending Friends, believe me. So these shows back then were shot on film, 35 millimeter film, but it's still different. These cameras weren't like movie cameras at the same time either. But, and that's a bunch of technical stuff we won't get into, but starting in 19,

I guess, 71 when all on the family debuted, we started shooting things on videotape. And if you've ever seen those sitcoms of the 70s in front of a studio audience, they had a very specific videotape look. It was kind of great, a lot of nostalgia for people in our demographic for Gen X and I guess some younger boomers, but this to us was sort of the heyday and I think generally the heyday of sitcoms. Yeah, because in the 50s, there were still tons of variety shows and quiz shows that kind of edged sitcoms out. The 60s, there were like lots of westerns, but part of the problem with it too is sitcoms were corny and phony and didn't really speak to anybody's actual life. They were escapists, right? And in the 70s,

the very early 70s, starting with all in the family, sitcoms started to take on actual issues like out there in the real world, but they were doing it in a funny way. So it was more digestible and easy to kind of think about and talk about with your friends than it would otherwise if it, you know, 60 minutes was just shoving it down your throat. Yeah. And, you know, in a funny way in that episodes still had to have some laughs, but there were some episodes of some very famous sitcoms that went very serious and dark on what was later to be called like a special episode. Yeah. There are a few real notable ones. One was all and I remember seeing this episode as a kid and I was like shaken because I didn't, I didn't know any of this stuff. I think it's where I

learned about that sexual assault was a thing and it was when Edith Bunker was, was almost or attempted sexual, sexually assaulted on the show. And that episode was very, very, very serious and a marked departure from what sitcoms were all about. Yeah. Maude is also frequently pointed to as having like an early effect on tackling like hard stuff when the main character Maude in a two-part, very special episode chooses to get an abortion to terminate her pregnancy when she gets pregnant at age 47. And that was like, I mean, if you did that today, it would be controversial. And this was like the early mid-70s that they did that. So people are, like, like TV show producers are starting to like really take on more and more stuff.

And that very special episode did become a thing beyond the 70s. Like another really good example is different strokes. Yeah. Very special two-part episode about child exploitation with Mr. What was the guy's name from WKRP, the station owner? Oh, Mr. Carlson. He was the guy? Yes. Oh. And you don't, if you've not seen it, then good. Don't because you'll never look at Mr. Carlson the same way again, because he played this creepy child molester like perfectly. He owned a bicycle shop. He lured Arnold and Dudley over there, took pictures of them in their underwear. Yeah. I remember. It was a like really jarring episode. And one of the hallmarks, which I know we've made fun of before in previous episodes of a very special episode, is the audience doesn't

clap at the end and it makes it even more weird and jarring and creepy to end an episode like that. But that's definitely a hallmark of it. Yeah. And also that you mentioned that was a two-parter. The All in the Family episode with Edith was, I believe, just a one hour. I don't even think they aired it in two parts. I think they just broke format entirely. Yeah. And it really shows that, I mean, the mod, when mod got an abortion, that was pre-Rovie Wade even. It really shows that the, despite it being kind of a corny, silly format generally, these writers and producers like, I think they knew they had an audience to really sort of get a message across at times, as long as they didn't like hammer it too hard. I think shows like MASH

dabbled much more in that realm than other ones. Oh yeah, for sure. But as far as doing this kind of stuff on All in the Family in different strokes, it was groundbreaking stuff. It was, but it got picked up by just about everybody. Remember, I think our last Christmas episode, we talked about that Alph Christmas special with the dying girl? That's right. Oh my god. So everybody did that. I think everybody with the one exception of Small Wonder did a very special episode. Say by the bell did that episode where Jesse was addicted to speed, remember? I didn't really watch that show. Okay. Well, that one alone is worth watching at least for the Who is Jesse? Which one was that? Jesse Spano. She was Slater's girlfriend. She,

oh, she'd be so mad that I just referred to her as Slater's girlfriend. Slater was her boyfriend. Was that Tiffany Amber Thieson? No, no. I don't remember her name. She went on to starring show girls. Oh, Elizabeth Berkeley? Yes. Right. I forgot she started on that. So she was really trying to prepare for studying finals. And then like there was this show coming up where she was going to sing the Pointer Sisters. I'm so excited. And so she was taking all the speed and Zach found out about it and was like, you know, throwing the speed out the window and Jesse was like, I'm so excited. I'm so excited. Really funny. It's really worth watching, man. And watch the whole episode because it's a masterpiece of like unintentional hilarity from start to finish.

Yeah. I think I was a little too old for that show when it hit its prime, but I definitely saw it here and there because I'd know all those characters, basically. It's still on Sunday mornings on me TV. Is it really? So sitcoms obviously hit their sort of zenith in the 70s and 80s into the 90s even, of course, with shows like Seinfeld and Friends were huge. But in the 2000s is when they really kind of started to dip. Of course, thanks to not thanks to, but unfortunately because of things like reality TV. The gold standard like we talked about was hitting syndication. And that's, you know, that's the reason Larry David and Jerry Seinfeld and every member of Friends, I mean, they all went on generally went on to do other stuff. But, you know,

it's why if Matthew Perry never worked another day in his life, he doesn't have to because they are still all making money hand over fist because these shows will live forever. They'll be showing Seinfeld in 100 years probably. Yeah. Because you make a show and it's a hit show and you can take those episodes and sell them to one person, sell them to another person and sell them again and again and again. So this one body of work just turns into a cash register. I saw that for Seinfeld and Larry David or the show in general, since it entered syndication, has generated $3 billion in syndication fees. That's amazing. And Ed points out, you know, very aptly, one of the reasons and there are many factors why those kind of sitcoms aren't around as much. Certainly

prestige TV and sort of that's the thing now. But when you launch a show like that these days, you're competing not just against what's on right then, but you're still competing against Seinfeld in the office, in Friends, in Frasier. Like people still watch this comfort food time and time again. I do it. We all do it. Yeah. And I mean, it was popular enough in syndication, but now it's on streaming. You can watch every episode back to back if you've got a long weekend or 10 years, one of the two. All right. Let's take our first commercial break because the fine folks have been gay have been waiting. Okay. See what you're doing. Do you ever think to yourself, what advice would Lance Bass and my

favorite boy bands give me in this situation? If you do, you've come to the right place because I'm here to help this. I promise you. Oh God. Seriously. I swear. And you won't have to send an SOS because I'll be there for you. Oh man. And so my husband, Michael. Um, hey, that's me. Yep. We know that Michael and a different hot sexy teen crush boy band are each week to guide you through life step by step. Oh, not another one. Kids, relationships, life in general can get messy. You may be thinking this is the story of my life. Just stop now. If so, tell everybody, yeah, everybody about my new podcast and make sure to listen so we'll never ever have to say bye, bye, bye. Listen to Frosted Tips with Lance Bass on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcast or wherever

you listen to podcasts. I'm Mangesh Atikular and to be honest, I don't believe in astrology, but from the moment I was born, it's been a part of my life in India. It's like smoking. You might not smoke, but you're going to get secondhand astrology. And lately I've been wondering if the universe has been trying to tell me to stop running and pay attention because maybe there is magic in the stars if you're willing to look for it. So I rounded up some friends and we dove in and let me tell you it got weird fast. Tantric curses, major league baseball teams, canceled marriages, K-pop. But just when I thought I had to handle on this sweet and curious show about astrology, my whole world can crash down. Situation doesn't look good. There is risk to father.

And my whole view on astrology, it changed. Whether you're a skeptic or a believer, I think your ideas are going to change too. Listen to Skyline Drive and the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. I hope Bengay is actually going to give us some money for this. We should maybe alert ad sales. They'd be like, who? Are they making fun of us? So Chuck, like we said, about 40% of seasons from 1950 to 2000 were sitcoms, the highest rated show. There's a reason that they're so popular. One, they're really easy to digest. They're funny. That's the point of them. But there's another thing too

that when you zoom in on a set of four or six characters and you spend half hour nuggets in their lives in just very small worlds of their sets, paying attention to their foibles and their weirdness and who they are and what they believe in, the audience really gets to know those people and you can really play with that as a writer and actor and a producer. All time great characters have come out of that. One of the cool things you can do is make a character one way and then all of a sudden out of left field, you can have them do something else and it suddenly makes them human. Whereas they used to be like a one-dimensional, hilarious person. Yeah, but that can really shake up an audience who is invested in a character.

Because I think there are so many shows where Friends is an obvious example or Sex in the City where most women, I think, who watched Sex in the City and I watch it too, but I think it was largely like a show that appealed to women would all say like, I'm a Samantha or I'm a Joey or I'm a Ross. I think people kind of looked for themselves in these characters and everyone had their favorites. People would watch these shows and maybe hate one of the characters out of the six every time they came on the screen, but still get into it. It's pretty interesting. They're super voyeuristic. They hold a prism up about our society and they're aimed at the largest demographic. A lot of these shows would be about working-class families who struggle to pay their

mortgage or who get into the sort of site. There was any situations, but a lot of times, there were situations based in reality such that people could really identify like, I've been in that same situation with my boss before. Al Bundy has to sell a bunch of blood to get his car fixed or something like that. That's a great situation for an episode that you can resolve in a half hour. Maybe the viewer hasn't ever sold blood to get his car fixed, but has maybe been in that position where they had to consider doing that. Yeah, absolutely. They also, I think to their credit, have been able to hold up not a mirror. What's it called when you're looking at someone else? I guess a lens on people that aren't like

you. A telescope. Yeah, a telescope for people who you don't identify with and you can learn something about. There was a period in the 70s where you had these three great shows, the Jeffersons, Good Times, and Sanford and Sun, at a time where it gave White America a real view into three very sort of set demographics of Black America. We'll talk about spin-offs, but the Jeffersons was a spin-off. They were originally the bunkers' neighbors. George Jefferson opened up a dry cleaner that hit it big, so they got to move it on up to the deluxe apartment in the sky. Sure. You had Good Times as sort of that middle ground family that kind of struggled a bit, and then you had Sanford and Sun as the junkyard guys. With other ethnicities as well,

it really gave, I think, largely White America a chance to sort of, even though it may not be the most realistic, sort of take a peek at how other people lived. Yeah, which is great. I mean, that's a great part of sitcoms. It can make you identify with people you might not interact with normally, right? Absolutely. And it can go the other way, too. It can make us very sympathetic to the rich. People like watching effluent families as well, just as much as they like watching families that are struggling financially, too. Oh, yeah. I mean, Fresh Prince, The Cosby Show, he was a doctor, again, the Jefferson. So it's interesting how sometimes people love watching the sort of working class families. Sometimes they like the escapist of watching the rich families.

There's something for everyone. And sometimes it's not even a thing. Like in Cheers, there was not really a lot of class stuff. Yeah. It was basically everything but that, like no one seemed to have any real money troubles, but also nobody was particularly rich. Totally. It was just not a thing. So it can also just be totally absent. I've got a little tidbit for you I want to throw in. Let's hear it. I read that George Jefferson was mentioned on All in the Family three years before he physically appeared on it. Really? Yeah, because Norman Lear knew exactly who he wanted for George Jefferson, Sherman Helmsley. But Helmsley was involved in like a really lengthy Broadway contract that he couldn't get out of. So Norman Lear just set it up and waited for him

to come and he finally arrived and made TV history. That's pretty cool to like hold out that long for an actor that you've fallen in love with. Yeah, but it was a good move too. I mean, Norman Lear is a genius. Oh yeah. I mean, yeah, sure. We can't talk about sitcoms without bowing at the feet of Norman Lear. And now we've done that. So the box is checked. So Chuck, one of the best things you could possibly do is sit around and talk about great moments in sitcom history. And I propose we do just that right now. I'm sure there are entire podcasts that do this. And we should also start each one with, remember the time? Well, we went over some of the more serious ones, but I think we should stick to sort of the more fun ones now. Obviously, sort of tops the list if we're going

historically or chronologically is the, well, there's a couple, The Grape Stomping and I Love Lucy, but especially the conveyor belt episode from September 15th, 1952 with Lucy and Ethel working in the factory with the conveyor belt. I think it was chocolates. Yeah, it was chocolates and the conveyor belt speeds up and like Lucy and Ethel are just doing this physical comedy that like it's astounding, especially when you stop and realize like this was live to tape, basically, you know? Yeah. There was another thing that Lucy really broke ground on with the birth of little Ricky. The film or the show was either aired or shot about 12 hours after her real life song was born. Oh, really? Yeah. And then they aired the birth of little Ricky, which is huge, but

Mary Kay and Johnny did it first. You're in love with that show? I just, I think they're an unsung show. They're another one that was not preserved in any way. It was filmed to kinescope, but the Dumont network, which was really cheap, threw all of their reels into the East River, apparently. And there's one episode left of Mary Kay and Johnny, and it's at like a media museum in Los Angeles. You know, now that you mentioned that our colleague Alex's show, Ephemeral, he has an episode about the kinescope. Okay. Like an entire episode. I remember now. I think that was in season one. Yeah. Great, great show. So maybe we should talk about the Mary Tyler Moore show, one of the great shows. Yeah. I mean, like if you got a, if you bow at

Norman Lear's feet, you have to bow at Mary Tyler Moore's feet, too. Yeah. There was an episode in 1975 called Chuckles Bites the Dust, a historic TV episode where a clown is killed in a parade accident and it tackles death in a really funny way. Like they definitely sort of talk about mortality and stuff like that, but the whole time they're laughing and they can't contain their laughter about this clown and how the clown died. And it's a very funny episode. It is because poor Mary Tyler Moore has to play it straight for everybody else and like is scolding them for laughing and they're all trying not to laugh and she's having to keep it really serious. Yeah. And then in addition to that, there were some really great jokes in there like one-offs

where Ted Baxter is asked if Mary can have a ride to the funeral with him and he goes, sure, the more the merrier. The great Ted Knight. Yeah. It was Ted Baxter, right? I think that was the character's name, right? Okay. Yeah. And the actor was Ted Knight. Yeah. Yeah. From Caddyshack and from Too Close for Comfort. Yep. Another sitcom. I actually quite enjoyed that show because it was, I thought, who was the guy? Jim J. Bullock was very funny. I thought Ted Knight was hysterical. And of course, as like a young boy, I just thought the beautiful blonde and brunette daughters, I was like, give me that show all day long. Right. I think that is how a lot of shows got popular. Like Three's Company,

it's just dreck, man. Like the writing is terrible, like the plots are terrible. The physical comedy is good. Like John Ritter is great. But if you think about it, he's really the only good actor or character, at least in the whole show, because he was the only one that had good stuff written for him. But you had like Chrissy and Janet and Cindy, I think, came after Chrissy. I'm sure that definitely contributed to it. Come on, Mr. Roper. Okay, Mr. Roper's pretty funny. We talked about that in the Fernbar episode of our Bar's podcast. Happy Days, of course, we have to mention Fonzie Jumps the Shark, which was 1977. And of course, that became, in the episode, Fonzie literally water skis and jumps, a ring of sharks. I think

it was sharks, maybe just one shark, because Jumps the Sharks would be the phrase now. Doesn't have the same ring to it. I can't remember how many sharks it was, but that became, it sort of looked back as the moment where Happy Days went bad and now is used as an expression of when any show goes bad. But Ed points out, like, there were some a lot of good Happy Days episodes and seasons that happened after that. True, but that same season, season five, they also had Mork from Orc arrive at Arnold's Drive-In. Classic. Yeah, it is classic and it turned out for the best. But the point is it was like a huge departure from the norm that that show had set up for itself in the previous five seasons. So I think it's not even necessarily just a show turns

horrible. It takes like much more bizarre turns to maybe boost ratings. I think that's really what jumping the shark is for me. Yeah, I think you're right. The other thing that stuck out to me too is apparently that phrase is from 1986. It's that old. Oh, really? Yeah, there was some particular dude who came up with it and wrote a book about it and started a website later on and was really like a single person or maybe two people introduced that slang into the zeitgeist. That person right now, if they're listening, says some particular dude. Thank you. Right. Thanks a lot, other dude. Thanks a lot, master researcher. All right, fine. I take that challenge. I couldn't talk before we break about a couple

of more landmark events in TV sitcom history. One, of course, is the final episode of MASH. Notable because A, it was one of the biggest shows ever. And B, because it was one of the biggest final final final final finales of all time. And all the way up and this was in 1983. And it was the number one audience, top audience of any broadcast in TV history until the Super Bowl in 2010. That was what a run. Like one of the best like television episodes of all time. Like it just got in the bread basket over and over again. It's called Goodbye Farewell and Amen. Ellen coming out was a big deal. There was a gay character in Billy Crystal on the sitcom Soap.

But Ellen actually coming out on the show after she came out in real life was a very big deal. And conservatives hated it. You get this. Jerry Falwell called her Ellen DeGenerate for coming out as gay. He called her a degenerate for saying, yes, I'm actually gay rather than staying in the closet. Isn't that disgusting? What a good dude. And that episode, they codenamed it the puppy so no one would have any idea what was coming. That's pretty funny. All right, should we take our final break?

Yeah, let's. And then we'll come back and talk about more sitcom stuff. Hey, I'm Lance Bass, host of the new iHeart podcast Frosted Tips with Lance Bass. The hardest thing can be knowing who to turn to when questions arise or times get tough or you're at the end of the road. Ah, OK, I see what you're doing. Do you ever think to yourself, what advice would Lance Bass and my favorite boy bands give me in this situation? If you do, you've come to the right place because I'm here to help. This, I promise you.

Oh, God, seriously, I swear. And you won't have to send an SOS because I'll be there for you. Oh, man. And so my husband, Michael. Um, hey, that's me. Yeah, we know that Michael and a different hot, sexy teen crush boy band are each week to guide you through life. Step by step. Oh, not another one.

Kids, relationships, life in general can get messy. You may be thinking, this is the story of my life. Just stop now. If so, tell everybody, everybody about my new podcast and make sure to listen. So we'll never, ever have to say bye, bye, bye. Listen to Frosted Tips with Lance Bass on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcast or wherever you listen to podcasts. I'm Mangesh Atikular, and to be honest, I don't believe in astrology. But from the moment I was born, it's been a part of my life.

In India, it's like smoking. You might not smoke, but you're going to get secondhand astrology. And lately, I've been wondering if the universe has been trying to tell me to stop running and pay attention. Because maybe there is magic in the stars if you're willing to look for it. So I rounded up some friends and we dove in and let me tell you, it got weird fast. Tantric curses, Major League Baseball teams, canceled marriages, K-pop. But just when I thought I had to handle on this sweet and curious show about astrology, my whole world came crashing down.

The situation doesn't look good. There is risk to father. And my whole view on astrology, it changed. Whether you're a skeptic or a believer, I think your ideas are going to change too. Listen to Skyline Drive and the iHeart Radio App, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Learning stuff with Joshua and Charles, stuff you should know. All right, we're going to finish up with what Ed calls odds and ends, which I think is perfect. Because some of these are significant moments.

Some of these are just little other random bits, tropes, what have you. One is a trope for sure, which is the couch in the center of the room. It's obviously done this way because it just makes a lot of sense to have sort of the central action being framed around the center part of a living room. But it's funny, if you go back and look at All in the Family, The Cosby Show, and At Least Married with Children, those three sets are almost identical in that you have your entry door on the right, the couch in the middle, and a set of stairs behind you. And then, of course, shows like Friends and Seinfeld. And it's not like landmark to say, hey, let's center the action on the center of the room.

But the couch in the center of the room definitely became a trope. Yeah, it allows actors to interact with the person on the couch without standing in between them and the camera to stand behind them, right? So it makes total sense in sitcom world, but it is bizarre if you step back and think about it. That actually ties in, Chuck, with another little tidbit about sitcoms called The Fourth Wall. And it's not just sitcoms, but any TV show. Or movie. Sure, but it particularly applies to sitcoms because if you look at a sitcom set, there's usually three walls. There's the back wall and two side walls.

But the front wall is imaginary, and it allows you, the viewer, to look in on the action. But the people in the action, the actual characters, don't recognize that you're looking back at them or they're not supposed to. But you can really toy with this whole thing because every once in a while, a character can turn and address you, the viewer, and that's called Breaking The Fourth Wall. Yeah, which can be fun. It can be funny if Burt Reynolds does it and gives his little signature laugh in a movie. It's funny if Ferris Bueller does it. It's funny. It can be a little weird and disconcerting.

So Breaking The Fourth Wall is something that whenever it's entertained by a director or production or writer or whatever, it's always very much like, let's put a lot of thought into this because it can really go bad. That's right. Yeah, you don't want to do it wrong because I would guess you could sink like a whole show doing it wrong. Yeah, it's not a willy-nilly thing. How about spin-offs? I love spin-offs. There have been a lot of very bad ones. But in some cases, spin-offs have been at least as popular as the original show.

You have great shows like MASH, which had Trapper John M.D., which was pretty popular, and then the very not great After MASH. Yeah, that was weird. Terrible title. And then that's pretty good too. Two is not bad. What about Happy Days, though? Happy Days had Mork and Mindy, of course, very popular show. Joni loves Chachi, but not so great.

Laverne and Shirley, that was from Happy Days too, right? Great, great show. And then there were two more, which I didn't even know about, one called Blanksy's Beauties and one called Out of the Blue. And the reason you don't know about them is because they were terrible shows, but also like they introduced Mork in Season 5 and gave him a spin-off. These guys were introduced, they would introduce the character out of the blue for the first time, and then the next night they would premiere their spin-off show. And it just was a format they were trying and it just didn't quite work out. Yeah, it didn't work very well. The Jeffersons I mentioned spun from All in the Family.

Another really popular show was A Different World that spun out from The Cosby Show. Benson was a spin-off. From what? Of soap. Okay. And I love Benson as a kid, I love that show. Facts of Life was a great spin-off from Different Strokes, of course. Frazier, one of the all-time great shows, spun off from one of the all-time great shows.

Yeah, from Cheers. You remember Frazier was, I think he dated Diane for a little while, didn't he? He was introduced dating Diane and then later dated Lilith, of course, one of the great characters. Right, yeah. And she actually made it over to the spin-off too. Yeah, yeah, she appeared on Frazier for sure. So All in the Family is apparently the all-time spin-off champ with seven shows that it produced. Wow.

The reason it was able to do this is because it was so popular. Some of its spin-offs had spin-offs. Like, I think Rota was a spin-off from All in the Family and it ended up spinning off Gloria, I think, or something like that. Yeah. So, all told, All in the Family generated 860 episodes of television. Wow. Yeah, that's pretty impressive. That's almost like the Tommy What's-His-Name-Verse.

Oh, the Tommy Westfall universe? Tommy Westfall universe. Yeah, it is. Very much like that. I was trying to explain that to Emily and some people the other day and just totally botched it. I need to retake that one too. Just get me on the phone. Put me on speakerphone.

I should. And then recently, we don't get a lot of spin-offs anymore, but we should definitely shout out Gronish, which is a newer spin-off of Black-ish. Right. So, it still happens. Another thing that happened that was kind of like a landmark bomb in the sitcom world. And not bomb in the bad way, but like meaning it was consequential. The Flintstones came out in 1960.

And up to that point, no one had even conceived of an animated sitcom, but that's absolutely what it was. So much so, it was essentially an animated rip-off of the honeymooners based in prehistoric times. Yeah, and animated sitcoms became a staple of TV, a primetime television with the Jetsons. Of course, our beloved Simpsons and Futurama and now Bob's Burgers is one of the family guy, of course. And then Bob's Burgers, one of the longest running current sitcoms, animated sitcoms. Yeah, there's also Rick and Morty, South Park. There's tons of animated sitcoms now, and they can all thank the Flintstones for that.

And to a lesser extent, the Jetsons. It's funny to think of South Park as a sitcom, but I guess it is. Totally is. It's just so offbeat, it doesn't seem to fit that mold. But it is, it's a sitcom. And then, Chuck, there's one other significant moment in TV I want to definitely shout out. It was the last episode of New Heart that aired in 1990. Did you see it?

I did. I was a big fan of both the original Bob New Heart show in reruns and then loved, loved the New Heart show where he was the, and the first one, he was a psychologist. Married to Suzanne Plachette. And then the second New Heart, he was a B&B operator in Vermont, right? Yeah, named Dick Loudon. And the second show, New Heart, was much more weird and wacky and just kind of went out there. Whereas the Bob New Heart show from the 70s was a little more like down to earth and,

you know, stayed. It had like New Heart's deadpan, you know, humor. I just accidentally did a New Heart impression. That was great. And so in the last episode of New Heart, the second show, it starts out, the last couple of minutes, start out in a darkened room and all of a sudden Bob wakes up or Dick Loudon wakes up, you think, and it turns out he wakes up his wife next to him and it's Suzanne Plachette, his wife from the Bob New Heart show from the 70s.

And it turns out the entirety of New Heart took place in a dream of Bob Hartley's in the show, the Bob New Heart show. It's one of the greatest series finales of all time of any show, not just sitcoms. Absolutely. For my money, maybe the only time it was all a dream thing worked to perfection because it's kind of become a trope, like a bad trope, where it just is sort of a lazy way to do something. Sure, the reset button. Yeah, but boy, it just, they pulled their card at the right time.

The original New Heart show was so beloved, I think, in Suzanne Plachette. So recognizable and beloved. It was just perfection. It worked great. Totally. Something that didn't work great. And I say this is the thing we go out on. How about that?

All right. It's called the Daren switch or the other Daren. And it happened on the six. Or the two dicks. Right, that's true. It happened on the sixth season of Bewitched. Right. And this was, Daren was the husband, Samantha's husband on Bewitched.

Great, great show. Originally played by Dick York and then another Dick came in. Dick Sargent came in and they just swapped it out. They never explained it. This has happened quite a few other times in TV history too. Right, so much so that, like I said, it's a trope called the other Daren where they just bring in a new actor without any explanation whatsoever to start playing an established role.

It happens most often on soap operas, I've heard. For sure. Some of the other notable sitcoms though. The mom on the Fresh Prince was swapped out. Oh yeah. On that 70s show, this one is very sad. Eric's older sister was played by Lisa Robin Kelly at first. And she had drug and alcohol problems and she was booted from the show

and replaced and ended up dying of a drug overdose. Oh no. Morty Seinfeld was different in one episode. Like in the middle of the run? Well, it was the first time he was ever in an episode, it was played by a different actor. Really? Just for the one episode. And then we got the great Barney Martin just owned.

He played Liza Mnelly's dad and Arthur too, one of my favorite comedies. But if you look back to that first Morty, Larry David didn't like it. And he's like, he's too soft. And he swapped him out for Barney Martin. That's awesome. Sometimes your father forgets and I have to steal. Ross's ex-wife Carol changed. Oh yeah, that's right.

Okay, I knew that. Angie on 30 Rock was another one episode run before they switched to a different actor. Which one was Angie? Angie was, who was Angie? I haven't seen 30 Rock in so long. I think she was just on the crew, maybe. Okay. I can't remember though, exactly.

Okay. Or was she, I can't remember, bewitched also had a switch in the Gladys, the nosy neighbor, the actor who played her died of ovarian cancer. So they did a double switch. Wow, twice. And then finally, in true Mitch Hurwitz fashion, Mitch Hurwitz, he was the showrunner for the rest of the development.

And you remember Ann, the boyfriend, or I'm sorry, the girlfriend of What's His Face? Michael Sarah was like completely forgettable and the dad never, no one ever remembered who she was. So his idea was to have a different actor play Ann in every episode. Is that right? Yeah, to kind of, you know, just make fun of the trope a little bit. And he did that twice and he ended up really, really liking the second actor so much. I think he was like, I can't like fire you.

So he did it once and then had the same actor player, which is pretty funny though. Good idea. Ann, that guy is brilliant. Good stuff. So I guess that's it for sitcoms, huh? We could just keep talking about significant sitcom moments all day, but I think we should probably stop. I think so.

We ran a couple of minutes long, but do you have anything you want to retake this week? No, it's all good this time. All right, great. Well, thanks for joining us, everybody. If you want to get in touch with us and let us know what you thought about the two-part, very special sitcom episode, you can send us an email to stuffpodcast. At iHeartRadio.com. Stuff You Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio.

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