Stuff You Should Know - SYSK Selects: How HeLa Cells Work

Episode Date: July 8, 2017

In this week's SYSK Select episode, after she was diagnosed with the cervical cancer that shortly killed her, a tissue sample was taken from Henrietta Lacks in 1951 without her knowledge. Those cells would go on to become the first immortal line of human cells, something of enormous benefit to science and humanity as a whole. But while the line, called HeLa cells, became a multi-billion-dollar industry, her family languished without health care insurance. Learn about this complex case of private rights and scientific advancement in this episode. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

On the podcast, Hey Dude, the 90s called, David Lasher and Christine Taylor, stars of the cult classic show, Hey Dude, bring you back to the days of slip dresses and choker necklaces. We're gonna use Hey Dude as our jumping off point, but we are going to unpack and dive back into the decade of the 90s.

We lived it, and now we're calling on all of our friends to come back and relive it. Listen to Hey Dude, the 90s called on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Lance Bass, host of the new iHeart podcast, Frosted Tips with Lance Bass. Do you ever think to yourself, what advice would Lance Bass

and my favorite boy bands give me in this situation? If you do, you've come to the right place because I'm here to help. And a different hot, sexy teen crush boy bander each week to guide you through life. Tell everybody, ya everybody, about my new podcast and make sure to listen so we'll never, ever have to say. Bye, bye, bye.

Listen to Frosted Tips with Lance Bass on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Hey, everybody, this is Chuck, and welcome to this week's Saturday, Stuff You Should Know, selects episode. This week was my pick, and I picked the episode on the Hila cells, because I think this one

had a great mix of history and science. History episodes are some of my favorites, and we got to tell a little bit of the story of the great Henrietta Lacks. And on the science end, we got to kind of delve into the importance of Hila cells. So, I hope you enjoy it this time around. If you've heard it before, give it another listen.

Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, from HouseTuffWorks.com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, and Charles W. Chuck Bryant's with me, and Jerry's with me, and that means that the three of us all together make it Stuff You Should Know. Hey, man. Hey.

Good to see you. Good to see you, too. So, I'm pretty excited about this one, actually. Oh, yeah? It's been a long time coming. We have tons of people email us about this book, and this lady, Henrietta Lacks. Right, and her Hila cell.

Hila. Hila. It's Henrietta Lacks. It's probably Hila. I hear that, but I think it's Hila, and Hila's probably the way to go. We'll just do our own thing. OK.

But, yeah, this has been a really big fan request over the years. Yeah, but it ties in. We did a show on right. Do you own your? We have a right to privacy after you die. Yeah, and I think that's when we got the most feedback about this.

Yeah, for sure. Because it ties in heavily. It definitely ties in heavily. There's a big movement about basically respecting the dead. Yeah. So whether you're an ancient mummy or a woman from Baltimore who died in the 50s, how much of an expectation of privacy and how much of a right to what makes you, you,

do you have after you die? Yeah. And the plight of Henrietta Lacks has definitely raised this national discussion about it. And great, I guess, is the only way to put it. Like, it's really good that people are talking about this. And it's not just privacy. There's also a lot of allegations of racism, profiteering.

It's a really morally complicated story, but a pretty interesting one, too. Yeah. Because at the end of the day, this lady has done more to further science than any cells have than possibly any one person on the planet. Yeah, Jonah Salk, you say? He's Hila cells.

Yeah. Is that going to bug you every time I say that? No, it's fine. OK. I adjusted my brain so I hear it the way that I want to now. OK. So go ahead. Great.

What we're talking about are the cells of a woman, an African-American woman named Henrietta Lacks, who in Baltimore, Maryland, she was pregnant with her fifth child. And she felt what she described as a knot to her family inside, her midsection. And after childbirth, it was discovered that she had a lump on her cervix and had cervical cancer. Yeah, about a year after she gave birth.

Yeah, and the only place that would treat African-Americans at the time in that area was Johns Hopkins in Baltimore, which is sad in its own right. So while she was sick and being treated, one of her doctors, how are you going to pronounce this? Is it gay or gay? Gay. Gay.

He was in her doctor. He ran the tissue culture lab. Yeah, but they sent part of her cervix away to a lab to get tested. And it turns out that it was pretty remarkable in the way that her cells divided. Yeah, you've got to understand this guy. Dr. Gay, it's G-E-Y. I would say gay.

Gay? Is that what you were saying? Gay. Gay. Gay? It could be gay. We're just going to call him Dr. Gay. Why isn't everyone named Clark?

So easy. Yeah, I'm boring, though. So Dr. Gay is basically this guy who, he, his wife, and an assistant run this tissue culture laboratory at Johns Hopkins. And for literally decades, this man has been trying to find a line of human cells that will continue to reproduce and not just die

when placed in culture. One day, he got a sample of some cells taken from the tumor in Henrietta Lax's cervix. And he put them in culture, and they started to divide. And they divided again after that. And they divided again after that. And every 24 hours, the population of cells in culture divided, doubled, right?

Yeah. And this guy said, holy cow, this is it. Like, this is the first time I've seen a line of immortal human cells. This could advance science forever. Yeah. By this time, I think Henrietta Lax was dead. Because was it a biopsy, or was it from her autopsy?

Do you know? It was from the biopsy, but she passed away on October 4, 1951. And I think all of this happened post-mortem. And we should, like, I don't in any way want to diminish what happened in between the time of her biopsy and the time Dr. Gay's like Eureka. Like, this woman had, she got treatment.

But I mean, the treatment at the time was fairly primitive. Apparently, radiation treatment meant that you sewed little radioactive tubes into the cervix and left them there. That was radiation treatment. There was x-ray treatment. She was in a tremendous amount of pain.

And she died horribly from this extremely aggressive case of cervical cancer at the time. And she died and her family was poverty-stricken. A lot of them didn't grow up to be very well-educated. And by the time this rolled around, the public awareness of Henrietta Lax's plight or post-death, her family couldn't even afford health care, for the most part, which is a great irony of this whole thing.

So let's talk about what happened after she died and her cells continued on. Well, he named them, first of all. And it's a common thing to name the cells after the person from which they came. And so a lot, for many years, people thought they said it was a lady named Helen Lane or Helen Larson.

Right, because they're trying to create anonymity. Like, you're trying to protect the donor's identity. And they were actually trying to throw people off by saying they were lying. It was Helen Lane or Helen Larson. Yeah, I don't know about that anonymity. Why would they name them after the person then? I don't know.

I think they're trying to protect their name. Why would they name them after them? I think rather than calling it at the time that Henrietta Lax cells, Hila was good enough. Interesting. I would think if you're trying to protect them, you wouldn't call anything remotely close to them. Right, exactly.

Well, that's what they do now. OK. So anyway, people didn't really check a lot, because it's just no one really cares that much in the medical community. Like, who did these come from? It was really common at the time and still to take tissue samples and use them without consent.

Right. And that's one of the big issues that came about later, is she never knew that her cells were going to be used in this way. Right, not only did she not know her family had no idea, too. Yeah, but we should point out it wasn't like against a law or anything, and there was nothing shady going on because it was commonplace.

Right. We should also point out that Dr. Gay never sought to profit from these things. Now, he would send them off to people for free. You have to buy them now, of course. Right. And they're all different kinds of strains that range in prices from $250 to like thousands

of dollars per sample. Yeah, and we'll talk about that in a little while. And like, you can get online and buy them. Yeah, right. I went today and I added some to the cart, and then I was like, I'm just kidding. Did you? That cart was like, Bryant!

Yeah, I just was curious of how easy it would be. And I don't know if there was something later on in that process that I would have to fill out or something, but I added it to the cart. No, I don't think you have to fill anything out to get human culture. Really? Yeah.

You don't have to prove that you're like a researcher of some kind? I don't think so. No, as long as it's not like a biohazard, I think. Interesting. And I know some places that charge different prices for nonprofits as well for the US sales. But it's not that much of a discount.

Like, I saw somewhere it'd be like, maybe you or I would pay $250, but if we were a 501C3, we'd pay like $190. That's not bad. $60? Yeah, I just thought it'd be more. OK. All right, so let's talk a little bit about why, well, first of all, we don't really know for sure why

her sales were so unique. OK, so they think they might have figured it out. I saw that in Nature. Yes. I didn't, I don't know. I don't know if I thought that was solid. You didn't buy it? Well, I don't think they even went on record saying it's

super solid. It's just a theory. So from what I understand, what's her name? Rebecca Skloot? Yeah, she's who wrote the book. The immortal Henrietta Lacks. Yes, which is being optioned by Oprah for HBO. Yeah, that would be a good one for a movie.

Yeah, should be. So she apparently buys it, and because she was saying that for many, many years after the book came out, well, for a couple of years after the book came out, because it came out in 2010, and this explanation came out this year, that they had to tell people on book tour, like, we have no idea why her sales kept growing and growing, and now we have a better understanding.

But the explanation Chuck and I are referring to everybody. So you get cervical cancer from the human papilloma virus? There's two Ls, so it's VO, right? OK. HPV. And apparently. Which is very common, by the way. Yes.

But that's what cervical cancer comes from, for what I understand, right? Yes. OK. So the HPV in Henrietta Lacks had insinuated its own genetic material into her DNA right above a gene called the MIC, MYC, and this gene, it's a regulatory gene. So when its expression starts to get haywire,

it can lead to cancer. So they think that the placement of this HPV is what causes these cells to grow and divide so quickly, and so robustly. Because these hella cells are an immortal line of cells. When you put them in the right conditions, you take one cell, it will keep dividing indefinitely. And we should probably talk about why that's a big thing,

why other people's cells don't normally do that. So before we move on, I think it's a good time for a message break. Stuff you shouldn't grow. On the podcast, Hey Dude, the 90s called David Lasher and Christine Taylor, stars of the cult classic show, Hey Dude, bring you back to the days of slipdresses and choker necklaces.

We're going to use Hey Dude as our jumping off point, but we are going to unpack and dive back into the decade of the 90s. We lived it, and now we're calling on all of our friends to come back and relive it. It's a podcast packed with interviews, co-stars, friends, and nonstop references to the best decade ever. Do you remember going to Blockbuster?

Do you remember Nintendo 64? Do you remember getting Frosted Tips? Was that a cereal? No, it was hair. Do you remember AOL Instant Messenger and the dial-up sound like poltergeist? So leave a code on your best friend's beeper, because you'll want to be there when the nostalgia starts

flowing. Each episode will rival the feeling of taking out the cartridge from your Game Boy, blowing on it and popping it back in as we take you back to the 90s. Listen to Hey Dude, the 90s called on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Lance Bass, host of the new iHeart podcast, Frosted

Tips with Lance Bass. The hardest thing can be knowing who to turn to when questions arise or times get tough, or you're at the end of the road. Ah, OK, I see what you're doing. Do you ever think to yourself, what advice would Lance Bass and my favorite boy bands give me in this situation? If you do, you've come to the right place,

because I'm here to help. This, I promise you. Oh, god. Seriously, I swear. And you won't have to send an SOS, because I'll be there for you. Oh, man. And so will my husband, Michael.

Um, hey, that's me. Yep, we know that, Michael. And a different hot, sexy teen crush boy bander each week to guide you through life step by step. Oh, not another one. Kids, relationships, life in general can get messy. You may be thinking, this is the story of my life. Just stop now.

If so, tell everybody, ya everybody, about my new podcast, and make sure to listen, so we'll never, ever have to say bye, bye, bye. Listen to Frosted Tips with Lance Bass on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Hey, now we're back. Should we get into apoptosis?

Yeah. Apoptosis, or cellular suicide, is, or programmed cell death. Take your pick. Yeah, many names. So from what I understand, program cell death is like this whole general idea that a cell self-destructs, but there's different ways in poptosis is one of them. OK.

Basically, when a cell is no longer needed, it commits cellular suicide. It's not abnormal or scary, healthy adults. We have billions of cells dying in our bone matter and intestines every hour. Yeah, and then your white blood cells come along, absorb all the detritus, and move this stuff out through your sweat.

Yeah, it basically balances cell division out. Tissue would grow or shrink if it wasn't for apoptosis. So it's a good thing. Right. Apparently, we have web fingers as we develop in the womb. And thanks to apoptosis, these cells degrade and your fingers go back to non-webby versions of themselves.

Well, they don't go back to. Or go to. Yeah. Basically, all the cells die in between your fingers, and you don't look like a man from Atlantis. Right, and this is also, like you said, a check on cancerous growth. Because cancer is, well, a tumor is a cluster of cells

that are growing out of control. One of the conditions of life is control growth. Yeah. Cancer is uncontrolled growth. One way to keep that in check is to have cells have a lifespan. And they typically do. In a healthy person, the cells divide between 40 and 60 times. And then they die.

That's what's called the hay flick limit. Yeah, we've talked about that. Yeah, and do you remember what it was? We've talked about that a few times. Yeah, well, it's just so fascinating. It is. So cancerous cells, like we said, don't have the PCD. And hers, thanks to Mike, are just the hardiest

they had ever discovered. Yeah. And went on to be used in at least 60,000 cases in medical journals and articles published in medical journals. I saw 76,000. Well, this was probably written three months ago. 11,000 patents relate to the use of the Hela cells. Yeah.

And they're easy to store. They're easy to ship. They're basically the best cells out there to work with for most kinds of disease, although in viruses, although some doctors say they can be a little too robust and mess things up. So these cells, they're extremely robust. They divide very quickly.

They're very hardy. They also, apparently, are airborne. It's one way that they go and contaminate other cultures. They can easily be transferred on clothes or gloves or whatever. So to some researchers, they basically are invasive. They're an invasive cell line. And by the early 70s, they contaminated so many other cell lines that doctors had to figure out

a way to identify Hela cells from other cells. So they said, well, we'll just call the family. And in, I think, 1973, Daylacks, Henry and his husband, got a phone call that just completely confused him. And this is the first he'd ever heard. This is the first the family found out that these cells that this was going on, the family had no idea. Yeah.

But like we said, they weren't highly educated. So when someone calls from Johns Hopkins and says, your wife is still alive as cells in a lab, they were really confused. And the daughter even thought for a while that they had literally cloned her mom and that versions of the mom were living in London. Like, you know, she had no idea what they were talking about.

Right. But not only that, the call, apparently, was later proven to be very misleading. Because they were saying, we need to find out if your kids have cancer. So well, what they wanted was to see if they had the same properties as their mom. They wanted the kids' DNA so they

could identify HeLa DNA in other cultures because it had become so invasive, right? So they were basically saying, you guys might have cancer. But really what they were after was their genetic material for DNA typing. That's right. That's extremely misleading. It is.

And mean, because once the kids went in and got their blood workups done, Johns Hopkins never called back. So they were just left to wonder what was going on? But I mean, think about it. Let's say somebody calls you and said, hey, we think you might have cancer. Come in and do some blood work. You go in and get your blood work done.

And then they never call you back again. When should you be worried? I'd get on the phone. Sure, yeah. So like we said, Chuck, this is a pretty morally complex situation. When the family did finally find out, they also realized that their mother's cell line

was a multi-billion dollar cottage industry. And they hadn't seen a penny from it. And so medical science kind of said, well, hold on. Let us explain all the great things that your mother's cells have done. And I mean, they've been involved in some pretty spectacular scientific achievements. Yes, like we said, the study of viruses,

everything from measles to mumps, created vaccines, in fact, curing, creating a vaccine for HPV, which is what she had. They ended up getting a vaccine for that from her cells, which is pretty great. Like you said, Jonas Salk? Yeah, with polio, which has been eradicated here in the West.

We should explain how that happens, too. Like when you have a live human cell, you have an opportunity to do whatever you can to it and simulate what would happen in a normal human body. And with polio, they took the polio virus and injected a heliocel with the polio virus. And then they injected the heliocel with some of Jonas Salk's polio vaccine.

And the polio virus was eradicated in that heliocel. That's right. Yeah, you just figured out that your vaccine works. They've used it to study tuberculosis, HIV. We already said HPV Parkinson's. They've used it a lot in Parkinson's research. And even in the transportation and standardization of just using cells like this period,

because they were so great and they wanted to use these, they had to figure out a better way to ship them back and forth. And just a lot of the standardization of these procedures are in place now because everyone wanted to work with these cells, which is pretty great too. So OK, Chuck, the family finds out about this. They spend basically decades saying, hey, can somebody fill us in on what's going on here?

How are you guys making money off of this? What's the deal? And we're just being ignored. And finally, Rebecca Skloot gets involved. Yeah, she's a science writer. I don't think we even mentioned that. Yeah, and the author of The Immortal Henry of the Lacks, right?

Yeah, I think it's The Immortal Life. The Immortal Life of Henry of the Lacks. And over time, Skloot befriends the family and ends up writing this book and telling the story of Henry of Henry of the Lacks. And basically just captures the national attention, basically says, this family, you can make a pretty good case, was totally exploited as a whole or by the medical establishment

as a whole. And let's talk about this. And that's exactly what happened as a result. Yeah, the family did look into getting money from it. But that is pretty much completely off the table, because that opens up a can of worms that everybody's cells ever used in any experiment would have to be tracked back to their original family members

and compensated in the courts have resoundingly said, no, no, no, we can't do that. Because that'll halt medical research as we know it, and we can't do that. There was a case in 1980 where this patient with leukemia found out that his doctor had taken cells from a biopsy and created a cell line worth $3 billion. And this case went all the way to the Supreme Court,

and the Supreme Court said, sorry, man. Once it's taken from your body, it doesn't belong to you any longer. So a lot of people still don't necessarily agree with, but that's the status quo as it stands. I think everybody's very protective of scientific progress, especially in eradicating diseases. As they should be.

However, earlier this year, there was finally some good news for the Lax family. The National Institute of Health invited two of her descendants to be part of the Hila Genome Data Access Working Group, which basically now they're a part of the board, which considers applications to use her cells. Yeah, because in addition, while this whole thing's

going on, this whole national conversation about what should be done with the cell line and what rights a person has to their own cells, this European scientific agency cracked and published the Hila Genome, which they published Henrietta Lax's genome just out there open to the public. And it's been proven that you can find someone's identity out just from their genome.

And you can also find out a lot about their descendants. So it was a big deal. This European agency took it down, but now it's been placed behind this. It's under a password lock and key in this database. So there's access to it. You can get access to it, but you have to apply to that working group.

That's right. So now the Data Access Group, they apply for permission. They agree not to contact the family members of Henrietta Lax, agree to use them only for biomedical research only. And some of the family members will handle those requests along with the other people on the board. It's not like they're the only ones that are left to decide this, of course.

And like I said, they did ask about paying. And they said, maybe we can think of some other ways for you to make money off this, like patenting a genetic test for cancer based on your mom's cells. But they have not yet come up with any way to make money off of it. So a lot of other people have. Like you were saying, you can go online

and buy a vial of cells for $250 or something like that. There's other ones that you can buy that have hella cells that are like $10,000. And I read this explanation of all that. If you take one of those $10,000 vials, it has all these other patented processes and proteins and genes and things that account for that increased amount of money, that increased cost.

And then even the $250 vial, it's like, well, it costs money to produce these things and store them and ship them and all that. So the idea that there's somebody out there that's just making tons of cash off of this is not that. It's much more spread out and it's much less obvious. And there's really not that much of a bad guy in the story, as much as you want there to be.

And even the author of the book is like, there's a lot of shifting sands in this. And it's not cut and dry in black and white. And at the end of the day, we want biomedical research to keep progressing. Yeah, I don't think anyone necessarily was looking for a bad guy as much as they're looking for a good ending for that family.

Well, it sounds like they got one. No. I mean, they got an apology. Yeah. There's now endowed scholarships and chairs at universities around the country in her name. True. And I think if you use HeLa cells now in a study,

you say these cells in this, using the study, were donated by Henrietta Lacks. Yeah. I think that was part of the agreement. Yeah, I was talking money, though. Oh, I got you. Like, they're still poor, and they still don't have medical coverage.

Right. Actually, I don't know if that's true today, but yeah. Yeah. On the podcast, Hey Dude, the 90s called David Lasher and Christine Taylor, stars of the cult classic show, Hey Dude, bring you back to the days of slipdresses and choker necklaces.

We're going to use Hey Dude as our jumping off point, but we are going to unpack and dive back into the decade of the 90s. We lived it, and now we're calling on all of our friends to come back and relive it. It's a podcast packed with interviews, co-stars, friends, and nonstop references to the best decade ever.

Do you remember going to Blockbuster? Do you remember Nintendo 64? Do you remember getting Frosted Tips? Was that a cereal? No, it was hair. Do you remember AOL Instant Messenger and the dial-up sound like poltergeist? So leave a code on your best friend's beeper,

because you'll want to be there when the nostalgia starts flowing. Each episode will rival the feeling of taking out the cartridge from your Game Boy, blowing on it and popping it back in as we take you back to the 90s. Listen to Hey Dude, the 90s, called on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hey, I'm Lance Bass, host of the new iHeart podcast, Frosted Tips with Lance Bass. The hardest thing can be knowing who to turn to when questions arise or times get tough, or you're at the end of the road. Ah, OK, I see what you're doing. Do you ever think to yourself, what advice would Lance Bass and my favorite boy bands give me in this situation?

If you do, you've come to the right place, because I'm here to help. This, I promise you. Oh, god. Seriously, I swear. And you won't have to send an SOS, because I'll be there for you. Oh, man.

And so will my husband, Michael. Um, hey, that's me. Yeah, we know that, Michael, and a different hot, sexy teen crush boy bander each week to guide you through life, step by step. Oh, not another one. Kids, relationships, life in general, can get messy. You may be thinking, this is the story of my life.

Just stop now. If so, tell everybody, yeah, everybody, about my new podcast, and make sure to listen, so we'll never, ever have to say bye, bye, bye. Listen to Frosted Tips with Lance Bass on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Oh, there's also a Henrietta Lacks Foundation too.

There is. You got anything else? I got nothing else. All right, well, if you want to learn more about Henrietta Lacks, you should probably go read The Immortal Life of Henrietta Lacks by Rebecca's Glute. Sure.

You can check out the website, the foundation, all that stuff. And you can also go on to HowStuffWorks.com and type Henrietta Lacks in the search bar. Since I said search bar, it's time for Listener Mail. All right, I'm going to call this biodiesel dad. Guys, after listening to 10 Easy Ways to Save Money, wanted to tell you about my dad's super cool

garage biodiesel op. He got into homebrew biodiesel about five years ago, and has since developed a very sophisticated setup, which can produce a 90-gallon batch of biofuel in three to five days. The simple rundown is that you filter, use vegetable oil, boil off the excess water, add lye and methanol, and filter, filter, filter.

He regularly gathers the used vegetable oil from various restaurants and bars around town who are happy to give it to him. He uses the biodiesel to self-sufficiently fuel my mom's SUV, his sedan, his truck, and his 26-foot fishing boat. Wow. No engine modification is required,

and it can be mixed at any ratio with normal petroleum diesel. As far as money savings go, the raw chemicals only end up costing about a dollar per gallon, so I'll let you do the math. While I'm not recommending that everyone go out and build their own biodiesel plant in their garage, especially since I'm not sure how legal it is

without a permit. I was wondering that too. I thought you guys would find this interesting, at least. I started listening to the show in September during the long drive moving to Stanford, where I just started work as a grad student, and I've been a die-hard fan ever since. And that is from Ben.

Thanks, Ben. And Ben's dad, who I don't know his name, but good on you, sir. Yeah, really. That's pretty cool. French pie machine. Well, let's see. If your family members are doing something

pretty interesting, we want to hear about it from you. You can tweet to us at S.Y.S.K. podcast. You can join us on facebook.com, slash, if you should know. You can send us an email to stuffpodcast at discovery.com. And you can join us at our website, stuffyshouldknow.com. MUSIC

For more on this and thousands of other topics, visit howstuffworks.com. MUSIC On the podcast, Hey Dude, the 90s, called David Lasher and Christine Taylor, stars of the cult classic show, Hey Dude, bring you back to the days of slip dresses and choker necklaces.

We're going to use Hey Dude as our jumping off point, but we are going to unpack and dive back into the decade of the 90s. We lived it, and now we're calling on all of our friends to come back and relive it. Listen to Hey Dude, the 90s, called on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Lance Bass, host of the new iHeart podcast,

Frosted Tips with Lance Bass. Do you ever think to yourself, what advice would Lance Bass and my favorite boy bands give me in this situation? If you do, you've come to the right place, because I'm here to help. And a different hot, sexy teen crush boy bander each week to guide you through life.

Tell everybody, yeah, everybody, about my new podcast, and make sure to listen, so we'll never, ever have to say. Bye, bye, bye. Listen to Frosted Tips with Lance Bass on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.