Stuff You Should Know - The Cher Episode

Episode Date: August 15, 2024

Cher is an icon, with hits spanning an unbelievable SEVEN decades. So kick back as we laud the singer/actress/legend. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The summer of sports is on and I'm feeling the competitive spirit. Luckily, I have Monopoly Go. Over 150 million have downloaded it to play with other tycoons to expand their empire and their riches. And my favorite part is playing with my friends. It's such a rush to win special rewards with a buddy and a partner event. Or I can go after their fortunes to be a top tycoon. I can smash their landmarks, pull bank heists, or charge them rent like in classic Monopoly. So make your move and download Monopoly Go, now free on the App Store and Google Play. For so many people living with an autoimmune condition like myasthenia gravis or chronic inflammatory demyelinating polyneuropathy, the emotional toll can be as real as the physical

symptoms. That's why, in an all-new season of Untold Stories, Life with a Severe Autoimmune Condition from Ruby Studio and Argenics, host Martine Hackett gets to the heart of the emotional journey for individuals living with these conditions. To find community and inspiration on your journey, listen now on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio. Hey and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh and there's Chuck and Jerry's here too.

And this is Stuff You Should Know. Stuff You Should Know. Is that your auto tune? I told you to turn that off. It's stuck on on. It's stuck on awesome. Yeah, and this wasn't even intentional, but here we are doing another biography of another gay icon. Another, well, she's not gay,

she's an icon of the gay community, Chuck. Well, that's what I meant. I know. Yeah. I'm just being contrarian already. Yeah, I know. I'm really feeling it. I'm full of P and vinegar today.

Oh, we say P and V at our house for our dog, Gibson. He's full of P and V all the time. That's awesome. How's he doing? He's good. He's a lot to handle, but he's an awesome sweet boy. He's got to be pretty big by now. His paws were huge as a puppy.

He is pretty large. I mean, he's a full grown doggy. Like Clifford Large? No, no, no. He's not oversized, but he's a big boy. Uh, well shout out to Gibson and shout out to Cher, who we're doing an entire episode on right now, as you said.

Do you mean Sherrilyn Sarkisian? Yes, I do. I do. And when I saw that, I was like, I knew she was Armenian. I never thought about it up until this moment, but I just knew she was Armenian in heritage. Yeah, well, I mean, I think one thing Cher sort of played with over the years was some kind of ambiguous ethnicity.

That's one way you could put it, sure. But yeah, she's, her father, John Paul Sarkisian, is Armenian. He was a horse breeder and a truck driver who had addiction troubles. So he got divorced from her mother, uh, before Cher was a year old, um, which would have been 1947 cause Cher was born in El Centro, California in 1946. That's right. Oh, you're setting me up. I read Chuck that, um, her, Georgia, and her father, John Paul, got married two more

times. So they were married a total of three times. Yeah. And I think her mother, Georgia Holt, who was an actress, she was married like eight times? Eight times from what I saw. Yeah. I think Georgia's mom had her when she was 13 or something like that.

And so they had a very, Cher had a very interesting upbringing. And I had never seen it compared to Mermaids, but it really strikes me from some of the interviews and articles I've read about her, that her upbringing was a lot like Winona Ryder's upbringing in Mermaids. Which is a movie Cher was in,

in case you're wondering why that was even brought up. Man, that movie is so good. I saw it for the first time just like last year, and it is a really good movie. Yeah, you know, Cher is one of my favorite actors. When I look through her filmography, it's just like, it's a murderer's row of great parts and great films.

Yeah, for sure, and we'll talk about those. Apparently, as it turns out, she wanted to be a performer from a very young age. I saw something like four. She saw Dumbo and was like, I'm going to be a performer like Dumbo. Yeah. And she actually kind of put her money where her

mouth is. At age 11, I love Pricoccia's kids' stories like this, she put on a production of Oklahoma and apparently could only get other girls to be in the show with her, so she just went ahead and played all the male parts herself. I know, that's a great story. And just a few years after that,

Warren Beatty would be sleeping with her. Yeah, like just a few years, when she was like 16 and he was 25, right? Yeah. What is it with powerful men and that? I mean, Warren Beatty had a long history of dating teenagers back when, back when, I'm not gonna say it was like,

it was super cool to do that, but back when you could do that and get away with it without being, you know, Without having to kill the guy who knows about it while he's in prison. Exactly, they very famously, she was driving in Hollywood when she was 16. He almost hit her with the car

and she got out and was like, are you crazy? And she was like, oh my God, you're Warren Beatty. And he was like, why don't you come back to my place and have dinner? And that's what happened. She came home at two in the morning. Her parents were not thrilled, but apparently Warren is very charming

and called up, Georgia Holt called up her mom and made his case. And she was like, oh, okay, date my 16 year old. I know that was back then when you could just pick up the phone and be like, come on. Right, exactly. So Cher dropped out of high school. Not a lot of great performing opportunities while you're in high school.

So she dropped out and she tried to make it in show biz. And initially she wanted to be an actor, but she met another guy who would have a much bigger impact on her life than even Warren Beatty, a guy named Salvatore Bono, better known as Sonny Bono. she met another guy who would have a much bigger impact on her life than even Warren Beatty, a guy named Salvatore Bono, better known as Sonny Bono. He was 12 years older than her, rather than just the traditional nine

that Warren Beatty had established. The traditional nine. And she was 16, 17, something like that, when they met in Los Angeles. And both of them swear that their relationship was platonic at first, that she had moved into a group home with some other women and the, apparently that housing

opportunity fell through or ran out and she met Sonny Bono and he's like, why don't you move in with me and clean my house? And that's supposedly how it was at first. And then of course, it did not last very long and they got married within two years I think, although it wasn't legal for another seven, or for seven years.

Five years. Five is just as good an estimate as seven. Yeah, she was 18 when they got sort of fake married in 1964. They did have a ceremony, but it wasn't a legal wedding and it became legal like like you said, in 1969. And Sunny was working for music impresario Phil Spector at the time, who was like, hey, this kid you got has got an outstanding voice.

Also love Cher's voice, by the way. And she started singing backup for Phil Spector on like some really big songs like, You've Lost That Love and Feeling by the Righteous Brothers and Be My Baby by the Ronettes. Yeah, so in two years she's met Warren Batien, dated him, met Sonny Bono, moved in with him and is singing backup on Phil Spector songs by age 17.

Like stuff just started happening for really quickly. And from that point on just started happening for really quickly. And from that point on, things started happening very quickly because Sonny Bono was making things happen. Like you said, he was working for Phil Spector. And so he was, I guess he and Phil were both like this, she needs like her own career. Apparently there's an anecdote where when she was singing backup on some of those songs, Phil Spector kept

telling her to like back up further and further away from the mic because she was overpowering the other backup singers. So it was very clear that she needed her own, go out on her own, although apparently Phil Spector opposed it at first, Sonny Bono was like, no, we're going to take this girl to really great places, and we're going to do it by giving her the pseudonym Bonnie Jo Mason.

Yeah, that's right. Her first single was released. It was called Ringo I Love You as Bonnie Jo Mason. Not a great song. And you know, Cher has that low, I guess it's, is it an alto? Yeah, it sounds like this. If I could turn back time.

I meant to look up what her voice technically is, but it's maybe baritone, I don't know. But it's that low, she's got this great, fantastic, powerful, low voice. And apparently there were some radio stations that thought it was a man singing and it was a love song to Ringo Starr. So they refused to play it in some markets,

but she was like, you know, it's not a very good song. Not a big deal. But very shortly thereafter in 1964, would sign with Imperial Records, which is part an imprint of Liberty Records. And had her first really big hit in 65 with a cover of Bob Dylan's amazing song, All I Really Want to Do.

Is Roller Skate, in parentheses. She did a great version too. I love the production style and the recording quality of those of the mid-60s and earlier. It's really good. Yeah, for sure. So she hit number 15 on the billboard charts with that single, that cover of Dylan. That's pretty, I mean, seriously, think about this, she just is like, I'm gonna go make it

on my own and then it just happened. I'm really impressed by how condensed like her first series of like big exposures were, you know? And so in addition to her performing her, carrying out I guess her solo career, she also was performing with Sonny too, as they would. She also was performing with Sonny, too, as they would become very famous together performing. But at first, they went under the name Caesar and Cleo,

apparently as an homage to Sonny's haircut at the time. Which she said was somewhere between Caesar's and Napoleon's hair. I don't know what Napoleon's hair looked like. He had like that big old hat he liked to wear. Yeah, I always had that hat. Caesars and Napoleon's hair. I don't know what Napoleon's hair looks like. He had like that big old hat he liked to wear. Yeah, I always had that hat. Cleo was a nod to her ambiguous ethnic looks.

People said like you look like a more glamorous Cleopatra. So that's what they went with and they scuttled that pretty quick. Yeah, I mean, she kind of played that up too. She had, that's when she was wearing the dark mascara with sort of the cat tails coming off the side and just super, super cool looking. Like very tan and she had that beautiful long black hair.

Like I've been watching a lot of Cher stuff and Sonny and Cher from that era today. And I got a big old man crush on her all over again that reminded me of when I had one on her when I was six years old. That's cute from watching the Sonny and Cher show and all that. Yeah, so they had some songs together

that were not popular like you talked about, but in 65, they rebranded as themselves as Sonny and Cher with that huge, huge number one single, I Got You, Babe, that the Rolling Stones, who are always champions of them, said, hey, take it over to England, I love your vibe there. Yeah. Apparently in America, they weren't getting much love. Cher says that they were basically hippies before the word hippie was even around. They dressed like hippies, they acted like hippies, and America wasn't ready for hippies yet.

But England was like, Hey, we're swinging over here, so come on over here. And yeah, that's just so bizarre that the Rolling Stones were the ones who like helped get Sonny and Cher their big break because you just do not. That's like Led Zeppelin helping out Donnie and Marie in my mind.

You know what I mean? It's very similar to that. Oh, boy. I would argue Sonny and Cher were 2% cooler than Donnie and Marie. Definitely, but it's certainly in the same ballpark, you know? No, no, totally. That's funny. That single, I Got You, Babe, which is the song they're most known for as a duo, still

I think, sold more than three million copies, was number one for three weeks, and the album was number two for eight weeks, and probably would have hit number one had it not been for the fact that The Beatles' Help was released at the same time and held down that number one spot. Right, yeah, if you're gonna be number two to anybody,

that's a pretty good album to be number two to at the time. Yeah, for sure. But they had 10 top 40 singles and five of those were top tens. Not too shabby. No, not at all. The other thing that they were very much known for was banter, comic banter in between.

Apparently, Sonny was the comedic writer between the two, but Cher said in her eulogy of Sunny Bono when he died of a, from a skiing accident in 1998, that he, like, people just kind of saw Sunny Bono, especially during their early careers, like the butt of the jokes. He's like the, the dipwad, I guess, is a technical way to put it. But that he knew that that's what made the most sense with their duo. It made sense for her to be the sharper, more sardonic, smarter one

and him to be the butt of the jokes. But she's like, the big joke was he was the one writing the jokes. So he kind of had the last laugh in that sense. Did you watch any of the actual variety show banter today or yesterday? You know, weirdly, I just read a synopsis, a very detailed synopsis of one of their episodes on sharescholar.com. Yeah, I encourage you to check it out and anyone out there who's like,

what was their chemistry like? Because it's really good stuff. I mean, I watched the second iteration of their show that was out later on, which we'll get to in a sec, but they're just so funny together, and you could tell they're having a good time, and while it is scripted, it comes across as very natural, and it feels like they're,

and they may have been, improving some of it, but it was just, they just had fantastic chemistry and she would make short jokes because he was 5'5", and she seemed giant compared to him, but she was only 5'7", but I think they put her in heels and stuff like that, and he would make jokes about her prominent nose, but she usually got the best of him. But they were just, it was a very cute pairing together.

You know, kind of a cute historic comedy pairing. Yeah, all you had to do was put them on TV and let them do their thing and people would fall in love with them. That's what happened. They were guest stars on Carol Burnett back in 1967. They guest hosted some Merv Griffin show episodes. And just from that, they introduced themselves to America,

their TV chops, I guess. And the head of CBS programming, Fred Silverman, who would go on to executive produce diagnosis murder, he gave them their first show in August of 1971. It was a summer replacement. And I feel like such a slack researcher that I didn't go see what that replaced. Oh yeah, I didn't either.

But then when December came around and it was time for like, okay, what's the real deal shows, it got its own slot and it became like a really big hit. They were pulling in like 30 million viewers a week. I mean this was, I don't think there were 30 million people in America at the time. Yeah it was kind of the early heyday of the Variety show, which if you're of a certain age, you remember, but if you're not, Variety shows were these comedy half hours, usually an hour where they would come out and they would do like an opening monologue and joke around

or probably open with a song, which would lead into the monologue. And then it was sketches, it was music, they would have musical and comedy guests. It was called the Sunny and Cher Comedy Hour, and it was just, there were a lot of these great shows back then, and I'd pine for those to come back. And I think they could if they did it right.

Really? Yeah, I think if you had the right people, and especially like a couple like this is kind of a fun way to do it, I think it could work. I mean, they have some that are like skirting the genre for sure. Yeah, they're terrible. Like America's Got Talent and The Voice and all that stuff.

That's not the same thing. It's not strictly, but some of those are like, there's so many different acts or different types of acts that it's close. It's just missing like the people who host the show, like having like a larger main role in it, you know what I mean? Like Sonny and Cher did. Yeah, I get that. Like take away the competition aspect, get a couple of cutie pies like us to host it.

Sure. I mean, I guess my point is be careful what you wish for. Right. No, you're right, because what are the chances they would do it right? Right. Probably not good. So Sonny Bono is very much tied to Cher and vice versa, in most people's mind, in a lot of people's mind, especially older people. But there's another collaborator that a guy who wrote for The New Yorker, his name's Michael Schulman, he said that Bob Mackie, the very, very famous fashion designer, was probably arguably

surpassing Bono as her defining collaborator. Because one thing people know about Cher is that she will wear any over the top outfit that Bob Mackie would make for her. And apparently they were very close collaborators. It wasn't like Bob Mackie would say, here, I designed this, put this on. She would go back and forth with them, kind of push him to go even further. And just from the fact that she was willing to try on or wear in public, anything he came up with,

I think really inspired him too. So those two were as much a duo as Sonny and Cher were. Yeah, and to be clear, like this was started on that TV show, it wasn't just the sort of iconic thing she would wear on the red carpet later. Like, they've been together since the beginning, basically. Yeah, I think their TV show would have something like 20 different costume changes per episode.

And Bob Mackie was there designing everything. So, yeah, they're very close. I think still, I'm pretty sure Bob Mackie's still around. All right, well, we're gonna go check and see if Bob Mackie is still with us and take a break. And we'll come back with the breaking news right after this. The summer of sports is on and I'm feeling the competitive spirit. Luckily, I have Monopoly Go. Over 150 million have downloaded it to play with other tycoons to expand their empire and their riches. And my favorite part is playing with my friends. It's such a rush to win special rewards with a buddy and a partner event. Or I can go after their fortunes

to be a top tycoon. I can smash their landmarks, pull bank heists, or charge them rent like in classic Monopoly. So make your move and download Monopoly Go. Now free on the App Store and Google Play. For so many people living with an autoimmune condition, the emotional toll is as real as the physical symptoms. Starting this May, join host Martine Hackett for season three of Untold Stories, Life with a Severe Autoimmune Condition, is as real as the physical symptoms. Starting this May, join host, Marteen Hackett

for season three of Untold Stories, Life with a Severe Autoimmune Condition, a Ruby Studio production, and partnership with Argenics. From myasthenia gravis, or MG, to chronic inflammatory demyelinating polyneuropathy, also known as CIDP, Untold Stories highlights the realities of navigating life with these conditions,

from challenges to triumphs. In this season, Martine and her guests discuss the range of emotions that accompany each stage of the journey. Whether it's the anxiety of misdiagnosis or the relief of finding support in community, nothing is off limits. And while each story is unique, the hope they inspire is shared by all. Listen to Untold Stories, Life with a Severe Autoimmune Condition on the iHeartRadioApp Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hi, I'm Katie Lowe's and I'm Guillermo Diaz. And now we're back with another season of our podcast, Unpacking the Toolbox, where Guillermo and I will be rewatching the show to officially unpack season 3 of scandal Unpredictable you don't see it coming. It's a wild wild ride the twists and turns in season 3 mesmerizing But also we get to hang out with all of our old scandal friends like Bellamy Young Scott Foley Tony Goldwyn Debbie Allen Carrie Washington so many people even more shocking assassinations from Papa and Mama Pope, And yes, Katie and I's famous teeth pulling scene that kicks off a romance.

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We learned so much stuff from Josh and Chuck, stuff you should know. All right, Chuck, so lay it on everybody. Is Bob Mackie, known as the Sultan of Sequins, still alive? I'm glad to say, sir, that he is. He was born in 1940, so Bob Mackie is 84 years young. Very nice. Still going. Okay, so back to Sonny again.

Sonny's spirit is out there like, okay, that's enough about Bob Mackie, let's get back to me. Right. Okay, so should I take over from here? Yeah, do Sonny's bidding. They had their very popular TV show. Romantically with their marriage, things weren't as successful.

Sonny started stepping out and then Cher started stepping out on their marriage. They had some financial issues which we should be like, how in the world would these huge stars have money trouble? One of the reasons because Sunny was, he controlled everything in their relationship when it came to the business. So he was controlling their money.

One of the big things that happened was in 69, he financed a movie called Chastity, putting most of their money into it for Cher to, you know, star in her first movie vehicle. And it was a big flop. It's one of the big rules of movie production is you never put your own money into your own movie. Mm-hmm. Just not smart to do. So it was actually the same year that Chaz Bono was born, which is their son who very famously transitioned in 2008 because Chaz was assigned female at birth.

Right. And that's another thing that Cher would become very famous for is championing trans rights in large part because of her experience with Chay as her son. And she's become a real, as we'll see, I think as you mentioned at the outset, a gay icon and also a huge, she has a huge following in the trans community too. Yeah, absolutely. So by 1973, Sonny and Cher show are still going on, still going pretty strong.

And for all intents and purposes, Sonny is married to a former cigarette girl in a club called, named Connie Foreman. But for the public's information, they were still together, Sonny and Cher were. Finally, they're like, OK, this isn't sustainable anymore. And they started to get divorced in 1974. And you said that Sunny had total control over their finances, right?

Yeah. He had even more control than she realized. Like, I think she just thought like he handled that stuff. But as they were getting divorced, her own lawyer was like, you know, the company that was built on your talent, it's actually called Share Enterprises. You own 0% of that. Sunny owns 95% and the lawyer that runs the thing

owns the other five. You own nothing. And she's like, oh my God, really? That's crazy. And the lawyer is like, no, no, it gets even worse. You've been signing contracts that you haven't been reading, haven't you? And she's like, yeah, I guess. Uh, this is a paraphrase by the way, or an imagined conversation.

And he said, you signed a contract that said that you would not work outside of share enterprises. So you can't record music. You can't be in movies. You can't be on TV. And you signed a contract that said that you would not work outside of Cher Enterprises. So you can't record music, you can't be in movies, you can't be on TV. And we don't know what's going to happen with this because this is essentially an ironclad contract. Right. Which, of course, there is no such thing, thankfully, because so many entertainers signed

bad contracts that they can, in fact, get out of. And that's what happened when Cher was like, wait a minute, you're saying that I can't do anything except for make entertainment for a company that I own no part of. And he said, yeah. And she was like, all right, well, let me ask my boyfriend this.

Her boyfriend at the time was another music impresario, David Geffen. And he said, I'll get you out of that, don't worry about it. So he gets her out of that contract, gets her a two and a half million dollar deal with Warner Brothers, which, you know, that's a lot of money now, but obviously in the early 1970s, it's a very big record contract.

And that would be followed very shortly thereafter by the canceling of The Comedy Hour in 1974. But Cher was always, she still liked Sonny. She wasn't like this guy took advantage of me. She was like, you know, I really love Sonny. I would have done another show if they would have split it 50-50 with me. He was a terrible husband, but a great mentor and a great teacher to me. Right. Any time I hear about the Sonny and Cher show too, I'm reminded of that Simpsons little bit where they talk about a man who woke up from a coma after 20 years. He's being interviewed in his hospital bed and he goes, do Sonny and Cher still have that stupid show? And Kim Brockman goes, no, she won an bed and he goes, do Sonny and Cher still have that stupid show?

And Kim Brockman goes, no, she won an Oscar and he's a congressman. And that guy goes, good night and like dies right there, and something like rolls out of his mouth. Yeah, Sonny Bono would become a congressman. Yeah, a Republican congressman, no less. Was he? Yeah.

Oh, I couldn't remember. So in 1975, she got her own variety show just called Cher. And it was sort of like the rest of them. It was not as popular. They had a certain chemistry together that made them famous. And so they would bring back the show, this time not as the comedy hour, but just the Sonny and Cher show. And that one didn't last super long either

because by 1977, and this was the version that I saw on TV when I was but six years old, they broke up professionally as well. So that was it for her and Sonny Bono from that point on aside from in the public's collective memory, right? Yeah. Like I said, she was still carrying out or performing like, uh, she had a solar career that

she was also doing all this time while she was doing other stuff with Sonny. Um, and it was very successful very early on. Um, she had, uh, her seventh album was in 1971. Yeah. She was, uh, 24, I think at the time, 25 maybe, and that was her seventh studio album. Initially it was titled Share,

with a little accent over the E, just to make it fancy. But instead they're like, no, no, we want to be way more offensive than that. Let's name it after the title track, Gypsies, Tramps and Thieves. That's right. That's a word that is not used anymore, which we learned whenpsies, Tramps, and Thieves. That's right. That's a word that is not used anymore,

which we learned when we did that episode many, many years ago. So we're all still learning, everybody. She also had a song on there that hasn't aged too well. It was called Half Breed. And it was about, it was like from the perspective of a half Cherokee woman and Cher wore, you know, a faux headdress and performed that way and claimed to be of Cherokee

descent on her mother's side and it seems like none of that is actually true and I'm sure that stuff Cher is not like, you know, puts at the top of her CV these days. No, but interestingly she still rocked a headdress in her Vegas residency in the 21st century. Did she really? Yeah. When she would do a medley of her hits for that song, she would wear a headdress still. So she's still doing half-breed?

Yeah. All right. Yeah. I read that somewhere. I didn't see it with my own eyes or anything. Well, maybe that is at the top of her CV then. So it was about this time, can you imagine that's the number one thing she lists out of her entire career.

So about this time, early, early 70s, she starts becoming known for like really wearing just totally revealing clothing. And she and Bob Mackie just put it into like overdrive and start taking off from there. And one of the outfits that she first got wide public notice for was her naked dress that she wore to the Met Gala in 1974.

And Bob Mackie escorted her. And it is a naked dress. It's an amazing, beautiful gown that seems totally see-through, but it's not. And it was a big deal. It made a huge splash. Yeah. And if, you know, you can't go to the Met Gala these days and throw, you can throw a rock and hit five naked dresses with that one throw. But that was, I tried to find examples of anyone to pioneer

that nude look in public before Cher, and I couldn't find any, so as far as I know, Mackie and Cher kind of put that well-worn look on the map. Yeah, yeah, from what I saw, she was widely cited as the first one. She also wore it the next year on the cover of Time, and that just kind of sealed it as an iconic dress but that was far from the last dress as we'll see. We're gonna

talk a little bit more about our dresses soon but first let's take a little side trip over to the Allman Brothers band. Literally. And meet up yeah and meet up with Greg Allman one of the founders and they got married apparently within a few days of Son Sunny and Cher's divorce being final. Cher, I guess, had met Greg Allman at some point and was like, let's go get married in Vegas. And I think nine days later, they were married in Vegas.

Yeah, and they had a, I mean, her relationship and marriage with Greg Allman is as famous as it was to Sunny Bono because of, I mean, her marriage to Sonny was a little boring in comparison, I think. And I think it was either Cher or maybe it was Greg. One of them described their marriage as being on LSD at Disneyland. So they had a lot of fun, but this was a bad time, I mean, good time professionally for Greg Allman in the mid-70s, but he was really not doing too well with his consumption habits.

He had heroin issues and cocaine issues and alcohol issues. They had a volatile, I guess, four or five-year run, getting back together, remarrying, stuff like that, reconciling. So it was sort of an up and down, wild marriage, rock and roll marriage, which got a lot of press. But it also bore her other son, Elijah Blue Almond, who was born in 1976. Yeah, and I don't remember if I brought this up and if so, where, but I ran across this somewhere and I remembered it when I was reading about Elijah Blue-Almond.

The balloon arch, which you might see at like a wedding or something like that, was invented for Elijah Blue-Almond's third birthday by legendary balloon artist Treb Hining. The nude dress? Isn't that amazing? The balloon arch, the nude dress, what else? Auto-tune, as we'll see. Yeah, I mean, she was a huge pioneer in a lot of, well, Cher had a really large pop cultural impact,

more than she gets credit for, for sure. I think so. As I said, that marriage was trouble. Greg Almond was not much of a father. Elijah Blue has had struggles in his life, in his health, drug problems. I know he struggles with Lyme disease. And they're very sadly still have a troubled—he and Cher have a troubled relationship. I remember reading this last year.

She tried to file or she filed to try and get a conservatorship over him just late last year but was denied it. And it's just, I think anyone who is a fan of Cher is really behind her and hoping that she and her son can resolve this. Yeah, apparently she went through a really rough patch with Chas as well, but that's kind of been resolved over the years, she said in I think a 2010 interview in Vanity Fair, right? Yeah.

So by this time, by 1978, she and Greg Almond are about to split up for good. Um, and she decides to finally just change her legal name to Cher, which was an enormous reduction in the number of letters in her full name, because at the time her full legal name was Sherilyn Sarkazian LaPierre Bono-Almond. And she's like, just call me Cher from now on.

And that's what the law said. They stamped it and said, okay, we'll call you Cher from now on. Another thing that Cher was very well known for was her myriad boyfriends she had over the years. Many times, including up to today, dating men that were younger than her, sometimes much younger than her,

but usually famous dudes, very high profile relationships. She dated Gene Simmons for a couple of years, the bass player from Kiss, and more than bass player obviously. She dated Val Kilmer, she dated Tom Cruise, she dated Eric Stoltz, who played her son in the movie Mask, which is a little strange, but yeah, she loves men and loves dating men.

Yeah. She believes in love. Right, and she believes in life even afterward, too. Yeah. A little side thing on Eric Stoltz that I found out recently, apparently, She believes in love. Right, and she believes in life even afterward too. Yeah. A little side thing on Eric Stoltz that I found out recently, apparently he was the original Marty McFly in Back to the Future, did you know that?

You didn't know that? No. I'll stop sharing this anecdote immediately. No, I'm sorry, that was just one of those that I thought you would have known. Like you can see the, like they shot some of the movie with him and you can see those scenes. I did not know that part.

I did know that they wanted Michael J. Fox originally, but Family Ties was like, no. So they went with Eric Stoltz and they were like, this kid is playing this way too seriously. He would not goof it up at all. He's too serious of an actor. So they were like, all right, we're like a third of the way through shooting.

We're just gonna bring in Michael J. Fox on nights all right, we're like a third of the way through shooting. We're just going to bring in Michael J. Fox on nights and weekends, which is why a lot of the stuff that a lot of the scenes Michael J. Fox is in are at night, set at night. Oh, yeah. You should check out some of the scenes. It's very brain breaking to be someone of our generation and see Eric Stoltz playing Martin McFly.

So what's, like, the scenes that made it into the movie, you mean, or the outtakes? No. No, no, no. Okay. Just, I mean, they had shot a third of the movie and that exists online. I see. I gotcha. I didn't know if they were like, this scene was actually too good.

We're just gonna pretend like that's Michael J. Fox. It's Michael J. Fox. I gotcha. So, like, he's got his back turned to the camera. Right. You can still somehow see his freckles. In the 80s is when Cher finally broke out as an actor. This is something that... Or actually, should we take a break there or no?

Uh... Um... Uh... Eh... Mm... Yeah, we might as well. All right. We'll leave it cliffhanger, though, and when we come back, we'll learn to see if

Cher ever acted again right after this. For so many people living with an autoimmune condition, the emotional toll is as real as the physical symptoms. Starting this May, join host, Martín Hackeit, for Season 3 of Untold Stories, Life with a Severe Autoimmune Condition, a Ruby Studio Production, and Partnership with Argenics. From myasthenia gravis, or MG, to chronic inflammatory demyelinating polyneuropathy, also known as CIDP, Untold Stories highlights the realities of navigating life

with these conditions, from challenges to triumphs. This season, Martine and her guests discuss the range of emotions that accompany each stage of the journey. Whether it's the anxiety of misdiagnosis or the relief of finding support in community, nothing is off limits. And while each story is unique,

the hope they inspire is shared by all. Listen to Untold Stories, Life with a Severe Autoimmune Condition on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. [♪upbeat music playing.♪ Hi, I'm Katie Loes. and I'm Guillermo Diaz. And now we're back with another season of our podcast unpacking the toolbox where Guillermo

and I will be rewatching the show to officially unpack season three of scandal. Unpredictable. You don't see it coming. It's a wild, wild ride. The twists and turns in season three mesmerizing, but also we get to hang out with all of our old scandal friends like Bellamy Young, Scott Foley, Tony Goldwyn, Debbie Allen, Kerry Washington, so many people, even more shocking assassinations from Papa and Mama Pope, and yes, Katie and I's famous teeth pulling scene that kicks off a romance, and it was Peak TV. This is new scandal content for your eyes, for your ears, for your hearts, for your minds.

Well suit up gladiators, grab your big old glass of wine and prepare yourselves for even more behind the scenes. Listen to Unpacking the Toolbox on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Meet the real woman behind the tabloid headlines in a personal podcast that delves into the life of the notorious Tori Spelling, as she takes us through the ups and downs of her sometimes glamorous, sometimes chaotic

life and marriage. I don't think he knew how big it would be, how big the life I was given and live is. I think he was like, oh yeah, things come and go, but with me it never came and went. Is she Donna Martin or a down and out divorcee? Is she living in Beverly Hills or a trailer park? In a town where the lines are blurred, Tori is finally going to clear the air

in the podcast Misspelling. When a woman has nothing to lose, she has everything to gain. I just filed for divorce. Whoa, I said the words that I've said like in my head for like 16 years, wild. Listen to Misspelling on the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. We learned so much stuff from Josh and Chuck. Stuff you should know. All right, we've got to the bottom of that one too. Cher did finally get into acting in a genuine way in the 1980s. She was on Broadway in the, I guess in the same year in 1982,

Robert Altman did a Broadway version of Come Back to the Five and Dime, Jimmy Dean, Jimmy Dean, and a movie. She was in the movie and won a Golden Globe for that part even. Did you know that that play originally premiered at the Alliance Theater in Atlanta?

Before Broadway? Amazing. So that was a big breakthrough for her. That movie in particular, but also Broadway. I mean, it's like a pretty big deal to go act on stage. There's a big difference between being in the hands of an editor and being like live on stage. So that was a pretty big way to kind of debut

as like a genuine actor. Because one thing we should say, that Chastity movie Pretty big way to kind of, um, debut as like a genuine actor. Cause one thing we should say that Chastity movie that she first tried in 1969, that was a drama, it wasn't a comedy. It was like a straight up drama and people were just like, no, we're not accepting this. So she kept at it. She was in come back to the five and dime

Jimmy Dean, Jimmy Dean. She, uh, I think the next year played, um, the lesbian roommate of Meryl Streep, or well, Meryl Streep's character in Silkwood, and she actually cites that as one of the, one of the watershed moments that started to attract like a following for her from the gay community that kind of eventually became, you know,

her gay icon ship, right? Yeah, she won, by the way, a golden, she won the Golden Globe for that. Okay, great. And then she starred in Mask. Very, I mean, she was amazing in Mask. That movie was so good. If I remember correctly, I haven't seen it in a long time, but I just can't see that not being good.

Like that part where he teaches his blind girlfriend, like, what colors are through touch. What was that Laura Dern? Uh-huh. Okay. So Cher is like her, his Eric Stoltz's protective biker mom. And just the whole movie is just so great. She does a really great job and she won the best actress award at Cannes for her role in Mask.

So she was expecting to at least be nominated for an Oscar for Best Actress. Yeah. Nothing. It was a snub, a straight up snub. Hollywood was sending a message to her like, nice try but to stay out of the acting business. We've got this. We can't really take you seriously.

Yeah. It was a big thumb in the eye. So Bob Mackie designed her famous revenge gown. Gown? Gown, which was this, it was the one where she had the big, huge plume of black feathers all over her head, kind of like a headdress, or I guess it was a headdress, and just like, you know, not a Native American kind of headdress. And it was basically like, hey everybody, look at me.

Yeah, not Don Amici, who would win. Who won? Don Amici, he won for Cocoon. She was presenting the Best Supporting Actor award. Oh, okay. I thought you meant won her award. No. I think that was, oh, Geraldine Page maybe? In what?

Well, I don't know if Cher got nominated or would have been nominated. I guess she would have been nominated for best actress or would have been a best supporting for Masked. I think best actress, that's what she won in Cannes. Okay, so I think Geraldine Page won best actress. In what? Can't remember the name of the movie.

What was it about? Can you give a brief synopsis? No, I can't remember. But that was also the same year of The Color Purple, so I think there were three or four actresses nominated in both categories for that. Gotcha. And Jessica Lange, you know,

it's always tough to say like, well, this person deserved it more than that person, but hey, that's how the Oscars go. Cher should have been nominated at least, but she would win the next year for Moonstruck, which is one of my favorite movies. I've never seen it. Oh man, it's, you'd love it. Okay, I'll take your word for it.

Vintage Nicolas Cage. Also wanted to mention too, in case anyone is curious, I did a rewatch Masked. What is wrong with me? I'm just saying everything's slightly wrong. Was it Masked, Jim Carrey? That was The Mask. Okay, gotcha. So what's Masked? There is no such thing. There probably is, but Masked,

I rewatched a few years ago because that was a movie crush movie. It was Tig Notaro's pick. Oh, nice. I don't blame Tig for that at all. Yeah, so it was fun to go back and rewatch that because that was an HBO special for me. I watched it quite a few times back in the day.

So did it hold up? Yeah, really good movie. Great. So the 80s were really kind of big for Cher. And remember, she made her debut and was releasing hits and had a hit TV show in the early 70s, not even mid 70s. By the mid 80s and late 80s, it was like she had a brand new career.

She'd won an Oscar. She won a best actress at Cannes. Um, she was becoming an acclaimed actress and then she starts releasing albums again. Uh, in two albums in two years or three years, 1987 and 1989. And the 1989 one, Heart of Stone, that went triple platinum. And the reason, one of the big reasons that went triple platinum was for her, If I Could Turn Back Time song. Yeah. I've been singing that all day and I didn't even watch it. Just from reading those words, it's been stuck in my head.

I've got the, the thing I've been doing the whole time with that, the, if I could turn back time. It's, I saw Jack do it on Will and Grace when she did a cameo on it and he thought she was like a drag queen but it was the real Cher and he was telling her how to do it right and she slaps him and says snap out of it. Why was he doing his voice like that though? He saw her and like they had like a turn back time off and he was correcting her because he thought he thought she was a share impersonator.

It's a pretty great, you haven't seen that scene. It's great. Yeah, you know, what's Jack from Will and Grace? Oh, Sean Hayes. Right, best known for his role on Smart List, the podcast. Yeah. The movie career would continue. If I could turn back time was a huge hit. She put out Mermaids in 1990. That had another hit song in it, the Shoop Shoop song.

It's in His Kiss. Sunny, like you said, would very tragically die in a skiing accident in 98. But that was also the year of her biggest hit ever. The song that you joked about with the autotune, which was Believe. 1998, but that was also the year of her biggest hit ever. The song that you joked about with the autotune, which was Believe, of the same album, Believe. And it was a quadruple platinum number one hit. The album was quadruple platinum,

and that song was number one for four weeks. Yeah, and not only that, we talked about this in the autotune episode. That was the first use of auto tune in that way. Up to that point, it had just been used to kind of just gently correct people's vocals. That's what it was originally created for. And her producer, Mark Taylor was like, no, we're turning that thing up to 11 to see what happens.

And so this is 1998, right? She had her first career in the seventies, second career in the eighties. up to 11 to see what happens. And so this is 1998, right? She had her first career in the 70s, second career in the 80s. She's kind of gone off and just been out of the limelight for a good decade. And she has this idea to record this album, and Warner Brothers in America was like,

nah, we don't think so. We're not 100% you're going to sell any copies. So just like with the Rolling Stones, bringing her to England and saying like, hey everybody, check these people out, and that helping her get her boost, she went to her British label, Warner Brothers UK, and they agreed to release it.

So Warner Brothers America turned down that album, and luckily the UK label agreed, and it had not only just that huge impact on her career, but also the fact that he used autotune, it just took off from there. Yeah, it was huge. And, you know, change music for a little while, I don't think it's a thing that's sort of rooted in time now.

I think a lot of people were worried like, oh no, this is gonna change music forever. And it was just sort of rooted in time now. I think a lot of people were worried like, oh no, this is going to change music forever. And it was just sort of a, what's the word I'm looking for? Just a music trick that was fashionable for a little while, I guess. Yeah, a long while, I would say. I mean, this is like a good,

people still use that stuff and not just in rap anymore, right? And it's been a quarter century that people have been doing that. Is it still a thing? Yeah. Yes, it is still a thing. It's becoming, like you said, less and less and less. I think everybody's like, we got to come up with something besides trap music now.

Cause it's, it's just been done too long, too many times. But I saw a interview with Cher. I said, Jay-Z once came up to her and thanked her. He said, a lot of my friends who don't have very good voices have careers thanks to you and Auto-Tune. So I think that's a reason why it stuck around for a quarter century. Because it lets producers say like, hey, you're terrible at this.

We can make that right. Just go out there and be the image that we want to see. Yeah, well, one word you've said a few times in describing that is decades. And I'm not talking about her perfume, but her perfume is named Decades because the coolest fact about Cher probably is that she's the only solo artist in music history

to have hits in seven different decades, which is just unbelievable. And it's something, I mean, that's why she called her Perfume that because it's something she's really proud of is her staying power. I know she's been asked in interviews about like, who these days is it Lady Gaga or who's the next Cher

or who's comparable to you? And she wasn't being like nobody, honey. But her response was just sort of like, well, you know, they're all great, but like the thing I'm most proud of, and I'm of course paraphrasing, is the decades, seven decades of hits. And like, you know, not saying there's no one comparable,

but there's kind of no one comparable. And like kind of a call me in 40 years kind of thing. And let's see where they're at. And not again, she wasn't being a jerk. She's just being very matter of fact about what a big accomplishment that is for her. And I don't blame her. Sure. She's still releasing albums. I mentioned a Vegas residency 2008 to 2011 she was She released a Christmas album last year. I didn't know that. I gotta hear that. It's it's un-listenable. At least the single is it's bad man DJ play a Christmas song. It's

Not yeah, I don't like it and I like Sharon. I like her work, but I'm not a fan of that song And you like Christmas music. Yes. I think that's why I don't like that song. But yeah Yeah, it's it's it's odd. It's definitely worth listening to, but I don't think you're gonna make it through the whole thing. Okay, through that whole song? Yeah, I mean, if you were on Ecstasy and Acid and at a club, you'd probably be like, this is pretty good, but if you're just sitting there

listening to it during a work day, I don't think you're gonna like it very much. Yeah, while you're working at the Gap, at the mall during Christmas. Please God, not again. I worked at the Gap during Christmas. That's the only time I worked there was for like a month, but that Christmas mix got so into my brain,

and the one that really stands out was Santa's got a brand new bag, the James Taylor one. James Taylor or James Brown? Did I say James Taylor?. James Taylor or James Brown? Did I say James Taylor? What is wrong with me? I don't know. You know, James Taylor?

Yeah, they say he's got a brand new bag. Say-dee-dee-dee-dee-dee-dee. Oh man, I'm just off my game today. That's pretty funny though. I'm not gonna cut that out. You're still charming as ever though, I'll tell you that. I appreciate it. Like Warren Beatty.

You just need auto-tune for your brain for this episode. Yeah, that's exactly what I need. Cher is but a Tony away from an EGOT. I'm not sure if there are any plans to get her one. To me, they should have given her one just for the musical, The Cher Show, which was on Broadway, and did win Tonys. But just throw her a Tony, man. Give her that EGOT.

Yeah, one of the things, so we talked about her being a gay icon, she did an interview with pridesource.com and they were asking her about how that happened. And she was saying, like, you know, gay men are very loyal and she said that, come back to The Five and Dime, when it premiered, like it had a response initially, and then it just dropped off. But the gay community had already discovered and loved Cher. And she said they just basically came out and supported the show and kept it going long

enough to develop in larger and larger following. And that had it not been for the gay community, it would have just been, it would have been canceled very quickly after, after debuting and it didn't. And she's like, that's, that's just the kind of support that not just she, but anybody that is an icon in the gay community can expect. They're just very loyal and supportive, even if what you're doing is not that great.

And I read that the Cher Show is essentially being supported by the gay community too, that it's not super good. Yeah, I haven't heard that. But, and of course that's the full spectrum of the LGBTQ community because of her work with trans rights. You know, she even admits having a hard time when initially Chaz came out as gay and then later transitioned, but you know, they're a tight family and they worked through it.

And she's been a supporter even though it, she just had to wrap her head around it. I know that she got her first experience with the gay community when she was 12. From this article I read, she said, told a very cute story. She said, I came home from school one day, there were these two guys in our living room talking to my mom and her best friend, and they were so happy and excited told a very cute story. She said, I came home from school one day. There were these two guys in our living room

talking to my mom and her best friend, and they were so happy and excited about everything they were talking about. So animated, and I thought, these guys are so much more fun than the regular men who come over to visit. I didn't know they were gay. I just thought these guys are great,

and it all started from then. I love that story. It's a great anecdote. Yeah, it's really good. She also is a supporter of veterans. She's called into C-SPAN at least two times to promote her help for, I think with inserts into helmets for soldiers in the Iraq war. And she co-founded a charity called Free the Wild that relocates captive

zoo animals to like actual good habitats. That's awesome. Yeah. She's, I mean, she's flirting with Dollyhood. captive zoo animals to like actual good habitats. That's awesome. Yeah. She's, I mean, she's flirting with Dolly hood. Not quite, but she's really close.

I mean, she's like a good, she's a cool person. Good person. Yeah. I guess, uh, look for episodes on Barbara Streisand and Judy Garland. Yeah. In the next couple of years. There you go. We're going to become gay icons if we keep this up.

That should round it out. Oh, I hope so. Well, if you want to know more about Cher, just go watch some videos, listen to some songs, read some articles, go see a Broadway play about her. Whatever you want to do, there's plenty to take in. And since I said that, it's time for Listener Mail. I'm going to call this a freaking follow-up. Hey guys, back in the day when there were payphones,

the operator could actually give you back your dime, and later a quarter, by a tone if something went wrong. One of the earliest hacks involved getting back your dime without an operator, and usually many more dimes than just yours by slowly controlling the return from dialing the number nine. Wow. Man, kids back in the day. As you return the dial money would come out. Okay, so it was on a dial phone. And depending on when the service, depending on when the service people had

last collected from that phone, I'm not sure I read that right, but I think you get the picture. You get quite a lot of money this way. I refuse to answer how I know this, but a person could pay for train fare to the suburbs from Grand Central by going to several phone booths in a row. That is from Danielle, last name redacted. Nice. Thanks a lot, Danielle.

It's a great anecdote. I love that one, Chuck. Me too. Well, if you want to be like Danielle and give us a great anecdote about something we talked about, you can guess. We love that kind of stuff. You can put it in an email and send it off to stuffpodcast at iHeartRadio.com. Stuff You Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts, my heart radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever

you listen to your favorite shows. For so many people living with an autoimmune condition like myasthenia gravis or chronic inflammatory demyelinating polyneuropathy, the emotional toll can be as real as the physical symptoms. That's why in an all new season of Untold Stories, Life with a Severe Autoimmune Condition from Ruby Studio and Argenics, host Martine Hackett gets to the heart of the emotional journey for individuals living with these conditions. To find community and inspiration on your journey, listen now on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hi, I'm Katie Loes. And I'm Guillermo Diaz. And we're the hosts of Unpacking the Toolbox, the Scandal Rewatch podcast where we're talking about all the best moments of the show. Mesmerizing. toolbox, the Scandal Rewatch podcast, where we're talking about all the best moments of the show. Mesmerizing. But also we get to hang out with all of our old Scandal friends like Bellamy Young, Scott Foley, Tony Goldwyn, Debbie Allen, Kerry Washington. Well suit up gladiators, grab your big old glass of wine and prepare yourselves for even

more behind the scenes stories with Unpacking the Toolbox. Listen to Unpacking the Toolbox on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts. Or wherever you get your podcasts. Meet the real woman behind the tabloid headlines in a personal podcast that delves into the life of the notorious Tori Spelling, as she takes us through the ups and downs of her sometimes glamorous, sometimes chaotic life in marriage.

I just filed for divorce. Whoa, I said the words that I've said, like, in my head for, like, 16 years. Wild. Listen to Miss Spelling on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.