Stuff You Should Know - The Ivy League

Episode Date: May 11, 2021

The Ivy League is technically a sports conference, but it's much more than that. Enjoy this special 3D episode with your earbuds on and learn all about these revered, elite universities. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hey, I'm Lance Bass, host of the new iHeart podcast Frosted Tips with Lance Bass. Do you ever think to yourself, what advice would Lance Bass and my favorite boy bands give me in this situation? If you do, you've come to the right place because I'm here to help. And a different hot sexy teen crush boy bander each week to guide you through life. Tell everybody, yeah, everybody about my new podcast and make sure to listen so we'll never, ever have to say bye, bye, bye. Listen to Frosted Tips with Lance Bass on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to podcasts. I'm Munga Chauticular and it turns out astrology is way more widespread than any of us want to

believe. You can find in Major League Baseball, International Banks, K-pop groups, even the White House. But just when I thought I had a handle on this subject, something completely unbelievable happened to me and my whole view on astrology changed. Whether you're a skeptic or a believer, give me a few minutes because I think your ideas are about to change too. Listen to Skyline Drive on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeart Radio. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. There is Charles W. Chuck Bryant. And there is Jerry Jerome Rowland. And it's Stuff You Should Know, back together again. Holy cow,

I'm about to have a panic attack. Although this will be released after the other episode, where we're back together again. Oh, will it? Yeah. Oh, man. That's so like us. That is typical as far as case. We'll screw up our own reunion. That's right. We all love to use the way back machine to get things right, okay? I think we got to tell everyone what's going on here though. Hopefully you're listening on earbuds or headphones. If not, we encourage you to because this is a special episode where we were recording in 3D audio. And I think we should explain what's going on in this room. I don't know. I feel like we're transgressing if we talk about it in front of it. Really? Yeah. Because it might do something to us. No, I think we should describe this

microphone. Okay. I'm a little scared of it, but go ahead. Well, I'm on one side. So Josh and I, you know, we finally get back together to record and it's nothing like a normal experience. Not even the same studio. Different studio. We're sitting side by side, which is weird, although I'm just pretending it's a live show. Okay. And in front of us is this microphone with human ears. Yeah. But they're like plastic snow white ears. Yeah. Like the creepiest white you could imagine. Yeah. And then they have like bolts going around and stuff too. It looks like I'm afraid of it. That's what it looks like to me. I don't like it one bit. Yeah. And the idea is that we talk into these ears and it produces a different sonic experience for the listener at our expense.

Right. Because it's 3D audio week, right? It is. So I think a lot of our shows are doing this, right? I'm pretty sure almost all of them. So if you're like, man, this is the most amazing thing I've ever heard. Just start go and start listening to iHeart shows this week because they're going to have a lot of cool stuff going. Yes. And I imagine many other shows other than ours will have make better use of the technology. Right. And I'm just talking to the ears. Talk to the ear. Hey, you know, little known fact, by the way, these ears are modeled after Stelarx ears. Oh, it's part of his form. That's weird. Okay. So we're talking actually not about 3D audio today, but instead we're talking about the Ivy Leagues, which obviously is the topic you

pick when you're doing a 3D audio stuff. Right. Yeah. And I've got a couple of quick quotes, if you'll allow. Okay. I have two friends. We share one who went to Ivy League schools. Oh, well, my friend Robert Elze, who you don't do not know, he was my roommate at Georgia for a year. And I still know Rob still friends with him. He went to Harvard Law after going to Georgia. Wow. And he said this, that I want to read it. Exactly. I don't want to paraphrase. He said, I always had the perception if you were there in a grad school context, you weren't really considered part of the club. And then he expanded on that. And he said, you know, a huge number of your classmates came from Ivy's as undergrad. So as a grad student coming in from Georgia,

he said it was almost like transferring to a new school in the middle of a school year kind of vibe. I can imagine. So like, oh, you went to Georgia. Right. And now you're up here with us. But he did say it was really coolly diverse in law school. And he said not just like ethnically diverse, but he said my class at a former New York City beat cop, a cardiologist from China, a former grade school teacher. He said just a lot of really unique experiences. And then I asked our other friend, John Hodgman. Oh, yeah, that's right. He went to Yale. That's right, of course. If he wanted to provide a quote, and he said this, a Yale man never comments on a podcast. That's pretty funny. I know Hodgman talked about being invited to, I think the Skull and Bones

Club later in life in one of his books. Was it Skull and Bones or was it one of the other ones? I'm pretty sure it was good. I don't know. It was a great story. It's one of their secret societies. Yeah, it is great. And I'm not surprised to hear that the Harvard Law School is pretty diverse because Elle Woods was there and she diversifies everything. I don't know who that is. That's a legally blonde reference. Oh, okay. Did you get that? Oh man, the ear got it. It's starting to bleed a little bit. No, it twitched into light. Also, before we really dive in, Chuck, I have to say, am I dreaming right now? Why? Because we're sitting next to each other and it just is beyond weird. I just have to go on about this for another minute. We haven't recorded

together in over a year. We haven't been in the same room together in over a year. I haven't been in a room with a person who's not my wife without a mask on. Same here. Without, number one, hyperventilating or doing it at all. And then the fact that we're going to be sitting here together for like hours, it's just mind boggling to me. Hey, get back to everybody. That's science, Waria. Yes, it is. Josh and I will not die because of this. No, no, because we were back. That's right. We're going to grow that baby head out of our back that likes to boss us around. No. But other than that, we're going to be good. All right. Ivy Leagues. Ivy Leagues. Just one. Ivy League. Yeah. So one of the things that I had, the Grabster helped us out with this one.

And I had no idea what the Ivy League truly is. Like when everybody thinks of the Ivy League, you think of, if you know what you're talking about, eight schools, sometimes referred to as the ancient eight, they're among the oldest schools in America. You got Brown. Go Bears. Columbia. Go Lions. Cornell. Go Big Red. Dartmouth. Go Big Green. I know. Harvard. Go Crimson. Yeah. The Crimson Tide. Pennsylvania. Go Quakers. Yeah. I love that. Go Tigers. Princeton. Go Tigers. And then Yale. Hodgman's all the modern. Go Hodgman's. And of those eight, seven of them were founded before the United States was even around. Yeah. I mean, that's kind of one of the cool things about the Ivy League, which spoiler, it's really just an athletic conference. That's

what I didn't know. Did you know that? You know, I think I knew that, but when I first started looking into this as a topic, you think of Ivy League as a concept, rightfully, I think. Yeah. Because it is that. Yeah. But at its root, it is, it's a sports athletic conference. No idea. It's kind of weird. Because one of the other things you don't think of when you think of the Ivy League is sports. Yeah, not really. It's, I mean, if you're in defencing, rowing, lacrosse, wrestling. Backgammon. Sure. Backgammon, track and field. You might think of the Ivies. In fact, like women's rowing has been dominated apparently by the Ivy Leagues in this century. Brown or Dartmouth. Brown and, oh, I think it's Cornell women, if I'm not mistaken.

Oh, look, I haven't written down somewhere else. So if that's not right, I'll correct myself or totally forget to correct myself as usual. But yeah, for the most part, you don't think sports, even though they do play. It's a Division One AA conference, also known as Division One FCS. So they're not Division One A, like they wouldn't normally play like Georgia or or Alabama or something like that. That'd be funny. All right. They play teams like Howard University, Holy Cross, San Diego, like the kind of universities you're like, oh, I didn't know they had a college football team. Like that's the Division, Division One FCS. Yeah. And occasionally, the Ivy League will get a basketball team that's pretty good. Yeah. I'm talking about,

it feels like once every 15 years or so. Yale has had some pretty long, good streaks, right? I don't, I remember Harvard and Princeton have had a couple of teams that like went to the March Madness tournament. Okay. And, you know, it's, they're kind of fun to watch. It's a bunch of, it's a three point shooting fest from a bunch of white kids. Is it? Yeah. Yeah. Those are fun, though. I like three point shooting fests. So I really love the Golden State Warriors for a while there. Not these days, though. No. No. I mean, they've kind of hit on hard times, Chuck. I don't know if you know. I knew they did last year, but I thought they were coming back. So the thing is, though, is like, while we're talking about sports, people are like, why are you talking

about sports? This is the, how the Ivy League episode, how the Ivy League works episode. So we're going to basically stop talking about sports in a little bit, but you have to talk about sports because it's like you said, it's a sports league, but it's, it's just, just completely disingenuous to say like, okay, that's it. The Ivy League is a sports league. It's so much more than that. Yeah. It has really so little to do with it being a sports league. It just so happens that these elite institutions that were elite long before the sport of football came around happened to join into a conference together and formed a, um, yeah, sports conference. Yeah, but it really is a concept and it's, you know, it's a grouping of schools that like you said

are among the oldest, the most prestigious. Uh, we'll talk about their elite status and whether or not that's true. It is, uh, whether or not they are elitists, they can be, but they're trying to fix that. Josh knots, you know, those ears can't see you. That's the point. But, uh, yeah, I mean, it's where, I mean, we'll get to all this, but it's where the, the presidents of the United States and Supreme court justices and CEOs of huge law firms and companies go to school. You know, the idea is that if you make it into an Ivy League school, you can basically write your own ticket in the United States, right? Write your own ticket. Yeah. And it's been that way for a really long time. And for a really long time that, that is just how it was. But then

when they started to kind of expand and try to be, uh, bastions of higher education that serve all socioeconomic statuses, give the best and the brightest, regardless of your income, right? A fast track to that. It became clear that that's not necessarily how it works that in a lot of ways Ivy League schools really are just this conveyor belt for dynasties. Yeah. You know, that, that just serve the highest echelons of society. But it is, it's unfair to say that they aren't doing anything about that or don't do anything about it. They do try to counteract that. If I were to write my own ticket, you know, it would be J walking. Oh, really? I was going to say Aerosmith 76. I didn't think about that kind of ticket. Sure, man. Yeah, man. You got to expand

your mind. Now I got to pay some stupid J walking fine and you're rocking out to Aerosmith. You got the wrong direction with that. All right. So I guess we can talk about the origin of the name Ivy League. Um, there is one, well, there are a couple of stories that, that are not true that you still hear people say are true in certain circles, non Ivy circles. Uh, it's that when they first got together to talk about forming a sports league, there were four schools. So they used the Roman numeral four, which is an IV and they called themselves Ivy League. That is not true. Or the, I saw kind of elitist Lee. Um, it was the outsider saw the, the Roman numeral four and call the IV incorrectly, which is even more like even worse. But yes, that's just not true. There's

another story that's a little closer to the truth that this one sports writer in the thirties, um, complain that he was going to have to watch the Ivy grow at some of these Ivy covered institutions when he was assigned to cover, I think a Columbia football game, right? Yeah. Columbia pin game in 1937 and Caswell Adams was not too happy about that assignment. No. And so that has his editor, a guy named Stanley Woodward of the New York, Harold Tribune took that Ivy thing and ran with it and created the Ivy League. That story is probably not true either, but it does seem like Stanley Woodward is a good bet for the person who came up with the, the term Ivy League. Right. And then in 1935 was officially used in print from AP editor,

Alan Gould, but it seems like the, uh, it seems like it might just be as simple as the fact that these are schools that literally have a bunch of buildings with Ivy colored walls, not colored, but Ivy growing on the walls. Right. Which is a, is this kind of, um, it has like a certain distinguished air to it. It's, it lends like this, um, just super upper crust vibe. Yeah. Ivy, letting Ivy grow up the walls of your institution is definitely like it's a certain thing and it creates a certain vibe and that vibe just happens to be exactly what the Ivy League schools are all about. And I mean, they even have like Ivy planting, uh, ceremonies for incoming classes. Um, and I believe all except Yale, let Ivy grow still, but Yale, I think starting back in the

80s started cutting theirs back because it's actually not good for your building. Ivy roots get into masonry joints. They hold moisture. Yeah. It's not, it's a bad jam basically and it can really cut into your annual take from your endowment to fix those buildings. So Yale said, no more. They have a little bit of Ivy crawling up a couple of halls, but for the most part it's gone from the campus. I've got Ivy, uh, on my part of one of my privacy fences, uh, between my neighbor and I built that privacy fence when we moved in myself with my own hands and the Ivy started growing and now it is a complete wall of Ivy and it looks awesome. Yeah. I think it's a mosquito farm is what I've heard. Yeah. But I don't want to, I mean, I trim it back, but I'm,

I'm going to leave it there cause it looks really cool. It's also chipmunks love to live in there too. So how can you, how can you do away with the chipmunk house? Can't get rid of their habitat, wherever they go. I know. Um, you want to take a little break? Yeah. I'm going to go get a q-tip for this microphone. Okay. We'll be right back. I'm going to go breathe into a paper bank for a little bit. Hey, I'm Lance Bass host of the new iHeart podcast, Frosted Tips with Lance Bass. The hardest thing can be knowing who to turn to when questions arise or times get tough or you're at the end of the road. Okay. I see what you're doing. Do you ever think to yourself, what advice would Lance Bass and my favorite boy bands give me in this situation? If you do,

you've come to the right place because I'm here to help. This, I promise you. Oh God. Seriously, I swear. And you won't have to send an SOS because I'll be there for you. Oh man. And so my husband, Michael. Um, hey, that's me. Yep. We know that Michael and a different hot, sexy teen crush boy band are each week to guide you through life step by step. Oh, not another one. Kids, relationships, life in general can get messy. You may be thinking this is the story of my life. Just stop now. If so, tell everybody, everybody about my new podcast and make sure to listen. So we'll never, ever have to say bye, bye, bye. Listen to Frosted Tips with Lance Bass on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to podcasts. I'm Mangesh Atikler and to be

honest, I don't believe in astrology. But from the moment I was born, it's been a part of my life. In India, it's like smoking. You might not smoke, but you're going to get second hand astrology. And lately, I've been wondering if the universe has been trying to tell me to stop running and pay attention. Because maybe there is magic in the stars, if you're willing to look for it. So I rounded up some friends and we dove in and let me tell you, it got weird fast. Tantric curses, major league baseball teams, canceled marriages, K-pop. But just when I thought I had a handle on this sweet and curious show about astrology, my whole world came crashing down. Situation doesn't look good. There is risk to father. And my whole view on astrology, it changed. Whether you're a

skeptic or a believer, I think your ideas are going to change too. Listen to Skyline Drive and the iHeart Radio App, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right, Chuck, so we're back. And so the Ivy League, as we were saying, basically came out of the formation of the sports league itself. It was probably a sports editor named Stanley Woodward who came up with the name. And what I think really just kind of underscores the Ivy League's approach to sports is that the reason the Ivy League formed, and it tried, there were some stops and starts in the beginning of the 20th century, especially in like the 30s, where not all eight were involved or not all eight were allowed in and some people were mad and all that. And it just

didn't quite come together until the mid 40s when they came together and formed the Ivy Group Agreement in 1945. All eight schools did. And they basically did it to say, we're really worried about this kind of growing influence of sports and in particular football. We want to make sure that doesn't happen in our schools. So they formed a sports league to better control football as far as its balance with academic life. That's what the Ivy League Sports League was based on. Yeah. And I think there were some worries too about the danger of football early on because, you know, back then, actually, I'm trying to think of what the helmets were like in 1945. They were not much. They were basically like a sheepskin wrapped around your head. And then

you hope for the best. No, I think that was post just leatherheads years. I don't know. I think that was still into the 40s. I think it was maybe the late 50s, early 60s when they started like the helmet with the single bar, but no face mask. Right. Nothing like that. I remember at the college or the pro football hall of fame, they have like the helmets through the ears right when you kind of first come in. And it is pretty jarring to look at those early ones and think that those guys were just so concussed. Yeah. The widowmaker. That's what they called the that leather helmet with the ears. Yeah. We're okay and protected. But yeah, you run. I think they just took like the little wrestling ears and threw some leather

on top of that. Basically, yeah. So yeah, they signed the Ivy Group agreement. They said football is dangerous and we don't want it to get in the way of school. And then in 54, they expanded that to include all the competitions, athletic, athletically speaking. And then I think in 1956, they actually started playing these sports. They finally got around to it then. Yeah. And it was, I think there was the Eastern Intercollegiate Basketball League was where they first played basketball in 1901. And then they rolled that into the Ivy League when they finally came around in 56. So they like to claim that they are the oldest NCAA division one basketball conference. Which is true in a way because of that first was that the EIBL. Right. Not the prettiest

acronym I've ever seen. No. But the that Ivy Group agreement and then later on the formation of the Ivy League. Like I was saying, they wanted to balance academics with sports, right? They were basically like these students are here to learn. But if they have time or they're interested in sports, sure, we'll let them play sports. So they kind of sketched out some rules that other universities and colleges would find to be utter madness. No athletic scholarships whatsoever. Like if you technically, you can't go to an Ivy League school and an athletic scholarship, right? Like financially, it's supposed to be reserved for the the the brightest students of less means or lower means than the other kids, right? Correct. You also if you end up in a

championship or a playoff or something, what do you have to do if you're the team? Well, you don't go. Although I guess basketball is an exception because they have played in the March Madness tournament. Right. But I know that if they if I mean, let's be honest, the football teams probably not going to make I know it's not really a problem if you think about it. But if they did supposedly they would have to skip the ball game. They don't allow grad students to play. Although that's not the most common thing even in other schools. They also switched that this year because of the coronavirus. If you were a senior and you didn't get to play in 2020, but you're going to be a grad student at the same Ivy League school, they're letting you play one more year,

which is like a huge to a first year Harvard Law student could play football. Yeah, and dominate. I dominate on the line and in case law. And then what's the other one? Oh, they don't allow red shirts. Right. The practice of red shirting a student. Yeah, because I mean, you're pretty serious. You have a serious sports program. If you're taking people and being like, I think you're going to be better as a junior and senior or as a freshman, we want to add an extra year on to your school. So wear this red shirt around for the next 12 months. Right. Do not take it off real should be disqualified. You're not allowed. So that and I mean, these rules have been in place and respected for decades now since the since the 1940s when they first came together. So that's

not to say, though, that even, even though they're not very good at football and not necessarily very good at basketball, that there aren't like any teams or any individuals that excel at sports and win national championships. Like I said, Brown and Yale is the Yale women who dominate rowing. Yeah, no, Brown, Brown and Yale. Okay. Yeah. But I think I said earlier, maybe Cornell. Right. No, I think I said earlier, Cornell, but it's Brown and Yale who women who are both good at rowing. Yeah, you could, if you're a wrestler, you could do pretty well at one of the schools. Yeah, you could end up on the Gray Fox team. Or if you're on the ski team, if, you know, if your university has a ski team, then that says a lot already. It really does.

First of all, it says you're from the Northeast. Yes. But also it says that you probably came from a wealthy high school that had a ski team, too. Yeah. Which is a thing that we'll talk about later on. Well, sure, that these sports are for people with money, generally. Yeah, basically, that because there's not a really good basketball team or football team, there, I think their baseball teams are so, so too. Hockey team, too, a little bit, that you basically have to come from a wealthy school district in high school to excel at sports in these universities. Yeah. I mean, I guess that kind of sets us up for the big question is whether or not these are elitist schools. I think they're sort of in a, I don't know about a pickle. I think they're in a constant pickle

trying to be elite without appearing elitist. That's a tough act, believe me. Oh yeah. Yeah. Oh, that's funny. And they are elite schools. Like if you go to an Ivy League school, they say you have a five to six-fold advantage relative to random distribution of attainment of a top position in business or government. So you're five to six times more likely to be a CEO or to be that Supreme Court justice. Right. Especially if you go to business or law school, right? Yeah. Anything finance or law, I think eight to the nine current justices went there, except for Amy Coney Barrett, who went to Notre Dame. Well, the Catholic Ivy. Yeah, that's true, I guess. Yeah. So yeah, if you're on the Supreme Court, there's an extraordinarily high likelihood

you are a graduate of, not just an undergraduate of an Ivy League, but also a graduate of an Ivy League law school. It's just not done to have a Supreme Court justice who isn't. So Amy Coney Barrett definitely bucks that trend. But presidents tend to be, I think, 34% of all presidents in the United States ever went to an Ivy League school, either for undergrad or grad. And then five of the last six, can you guess who number six is? Who did not go? Yeah. Joe Biden. Joe Biden. He went to Delaware, and then he went to Syracuse Law. Yeah, because the previous president went to. Wharton. Well, he went to Penn, and then I think he went on to Wharton as well. And Wharton's the business school at U Penn. Right. Just crushed it. Yeah.

Obama went to Columbia. That's right. George W went to Yale, because he was a legacy. His father went to Yale. He's a skull and bones guy, too. What about Clinton? Where did he go? Clinton went to Georgetown, and then I believe he went to Yale Law. I was so hoping he was a razor back. You'd think so. I think they moved to Arkansas after that. They were like, what state can we take over? Right. So as far as the education goes, it's sort of one of those things where the education, of course, is great. No one's going to knock an Ivy League school education with a straight face. Right. So don't think we're doing that. But there is that weird effect where getting the job because you have that on your resume is a thing. You just can't deny that.

Right. It's just the reputation of the Ivy League alone. Yes. Sustain their reputation. Success breeds success. Exactly. So if you have a degree from an Ivy League university, the doors are going to open for you just because you have a degree from an Ivy League university. Like you can step in for a position at a Wall Street law firm and be less qualified probably as far as actually doing the work goes than somebody who went to Georgia, who's smarter and more capable than you, and you're probably going to get the job because you went to an Ivy League school because they have their reputation. The thing is the Ivy Leagues are well aware of this. They know that it would be really easy to rest on their laurels and just let anybody in as long

as your parents have the money to donate like a new wing of the library or something like that. Right. Well, that's not always a wing of the library. I don't know, but it always is. I would donate a food hole. Yeah, that would be great. But I think that they try to balance that out as much as possible, at least to some degree because they know that eventually their reputation is going to fall because it turns out that all of the Harvard people are really actually dummies. The problem is, is in the meantime, those people who are making their way to the top just by virtue of having gone to the Ivy Leagues aren't necessarily the best and the brightest. And since they're aggregating at the top, that means the leadership is not necessarily

the best and the brightest. And they're also recruiting and drafting and opening doors and creating policies that benefit people like them rather than necessarily everybody else. And then the final factor of this, Chuck, is that because those people went to Ivy League schools and the rest of us are just awed by Ivy League schools, the fact that they have Ivy League credentials means that their ideas, that those policies they come up with, that the decisions they make are inherently right because they're Ivy League credentials. So it's a big or a boros with like multiple tails going into multiple mouths, but it's all one big thing. Yeah, it's a human centipede.

And it's like a real, right, it's a real, it's a real like balancing act because the fate of the nation in a large part, not entirely, we'll get to that. But in large part, rests in the hands of these Ivy League schools who are producing tomorrow's leaders. That's true. There was a study that found that top executives are not dominated by these elite schools, but they are overrepresented. So like I said, that five to six-fold advantage to get that top position in a business if you went to an Ivy League school. I think they're about on par though with MIT, Stanford, Caltech. There are plenty of non-Ivy schools that also are kind of up there with them as far as maybe not representation, but at least

breathing in the same rarefied air. Yeah, there's a stratum called Ivy Plus, which includes Stanford, Duke, University of Chicago, and MIT. Most people consider that. And then there's also people who are like, well, don't forget Georgetown and don't forget, you know, I think UC Berkeley is sometimes in there. Sure, yeah, Berkeley probably. Northwestern maybe. Yes. If you step back though and look at these schools on paper, some of these other schools probably blow Ivy League schools out of the water.

As far as just like education? Yeah, but in specific areas. If you want to understand business, go to Wharton Business School. If you want to like practice law and any like to learn law, Harvard Law, Yale Law, those are really good choices. If you want to learn everything you need to know about the food service industry, go to Cornell. They have a huge like restaurant hospitality and food science division. I don't know why, but it's as good as it gets, right? So, but there's other schools that are like, like try to go to Harvard for engineering rather than MIT. Like you'd be a dummy to do that. So in that sense, MIT blows Harvard out of the water.

The thing is, it doesn't matter. It's MIT is not an Ivy League school. Harvard is. So Harvard has an extra veneer of prestige that the average dumb dumb will just be blown away by. Right. Georgia has a good journalism school. Sure. Great veterinary program. Yeah. Large animal vet. Yeah. And then for guys like us, it's also a place where you could go and get a decent state

school education and have a lot of fun. Yeah. Cheapest 40 ounces in the state. Oh man. Georgia used to be really cheap. I think tuition has gone up, but back when we were there, like it was like $600 a quarter or something for a full load. Wow. It was ridiculous. Wow. That is, that is super cheap. I'll bet it's going up. And it, Georgia's got a lot harder to get into as well since we were there.

Right. Like I don't think I can. The Southern Ivy. Yeah. Well, I'm going to start there. All right. I'll take it. Georgia's now the Southern Ivy. These schools too, like not only do you have to have a lot of money to go there, they are incredibly rich and wealthy schools. They have endowments totaling, for all of them combined, $140 billion with Harvard's endowment

alone being $40 billion. I think the lowest is Brown's, Pidley, little $4.2 billion. And Ed Conjecture's here, but I think he's probably kind of right. Yeah. That, you know, when you have an endowment, it's not, it's not just a big loaded bank account, but it's, it's an investment portfolio to make more money on that money. Sure. And if you leave a ton of money as a Harvard alum to their endowment fund, and then you end up running a business, they might invest in your business or something like that. It's possible. I haven't seen anything, but I mean, it makes sense. Then there's like such a,

you know, one hand washing the other kind of thing. Yeah. Ivy League schools in particular, because they are these conveyor belts for a dinosaur. Is that the same? One hand washing the other? Yeah. Oh, okay. You haven't heard that?

I don't think so. How else are you going to write your own ticket? Right. Well, it takes both hands. I've heard of one, you know, you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours. One hand washes the other, same thing. But how do you wash your hand without just, with just one hand? That's what I'm saying.

Oh, okay. I got you. You don't, you don't. Isn't that right here? I get it. Yes, Josh. Man, that thing's so creepy. I'm just waiting for blood to start trickling out on one of them. That means we're doing a bad job.

Should we take another break? Yeah, let's take another break. We'll come back and talk more about endowments, because it is a thing. All right. We learn so much stuff from Josh and Chuck, stuff you should know. I'm here to help. This, I promise you. Oh, God.

Seriously, I swear. And you won't have to send an SOS, because I'll be there for you. Oh, man. And so my husband, Michael. Um, hey, that's me. Yep, we know that, Michael. And a different hot, sexy teen crush boy bander each week to guide you through life, step by step. Oh, not another one.

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And to be honest, I don't believe in astrology. But from the moment I was born, it's been a part of my life. In India, it's like smoking. You might not smoke, but you're going to get secondhand astrology. And lately, I've been wondering if the universe has been trying to tell me to stop running and pay attention. Because maybe there is magic in the stars, if you're willing to look for it. So I rounded up some friends and we dove in and let me tell you, it got weird fast.

Tantric curses, major league baseball teams, canceled marriages, K-pop. But just when I thought I had to handle on this sweet and curious show about astrology, my whole world can crash down. The situation doesn't look good. There is risk to father. And my whole view on astrology, it changed. Whether you're a skeptic or a believer, I think your ideas are going to change too. Listen to Skyline Drive and the iHeart Radio app,

Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right, Chuck. So we were talking about endowments. You said Harvard's alone is $40 billion. They're well endowed. Just right, exactly. Hanged. Just from that alone.

Just the fact that they have, in their investment portfolio, $40 billion. They reaped, I think, $296 million, sorry. They made $296 million in growth off of their $40 billion portfolio, I think in 2017. That's great. It's a good return. It is a great return. And it was tax-free. Had it happened in 2016, it would have been tax-free.

Those universities' endowments, even though they're private universities, they're non-profit universities, and their endowments were non-taxed. Until ironically, the 2017 tax package was passed. And there was a 1.5% tax on university endowments. Really? Yeah. So Harvard made a big stink about how they had to cough up $50 million in taxes that year. Sure.

But if you're using all $296 million from that year for things like building a new library wing, maybe a food hall, I don't know. Or if you're a teaching hospital, a university hospital, you might build a new hospital wing or something like that. It's always a wing. Supposedly, you're supposed to use a lot of this also to basically pay for free rides for low-income students who otherwise wouldn't be able to make it. That's what endowments are meant to be for.

But just the fact that these universities have such huge endowments makes them targets for IR, and it just kind of underscores just how unlike the rest of us, they are. Right. You know? Yeah, sure. $140 billion total between the eight schools. That definitely separates them in that respect. But from that endowment, they're investing in their students' education.

That's what they're supposed to be doing with it overall. And there is a big difference. If you go to an Ivy League school, you are probably going to have about $92,000 invested in you personally each year over the course of your career if you go to an Ivy League school. Yeah, every resource you need, I imagine. Right, yeah. The professors are well-paid, so you're going to have the best of the best. The facilities are in great shape.

They're not going to run out of Bunsen burners. Exactly. We're out of gas again in a second-tier school. I just made air quotes, chucking the tests, and so can the ear. The second-tier schools, which is basically anything that's not like the top 20, maybe 25 universities, but still really good schools, they'll spend an average of about $12,000 per student. Compared to what? $91,000.

$92,000. All right. So they are putting money into their students' education for the endowment, but still, $40 billion is a lot of money. It's a lot of money. As far as getting into an Ivy League school, it is tough, obviously. Their acceptance rates are anywhere from about 3.5% to 15% depending on the year in the school. I think Harvard has the lowest rate.

Stanford, Northwestern, and Georgetown are non-Ivies with about the same acceptance rate, so it's not specific to Ivy schools. But there have been a couple of scandals in recent years, notably a couple of years ago, with Lori Loughlin and who's the other actor? The lady from... She and William H. Macy are married. Yes. Suzanne Summers.

Yeah, Suzanne Summers. I can't remember her name. She was on Desperate Housewives. Right. Watch that. Felicity Huffman. Felicity Huffman. Nice job.

Boy, Macy's skated on that, too, didn't he? Oh, yeah. He was like, good luck. But that was the big revelation that parents who had rich parents who had kids that were kind of not qualified to get into these schools, let's say, were... It's very diplomatic. Yeah, we're trying to get them into school by getting them in through the sports program, so we said that they can't offer scholarships and that's true, but what they can do is a

coach can go to the administration and say, hey, I know you save us a few slots for admission, at least, and they won't get a scholarship, but can you get Lori Loughlin's daughter in here on a field hockey scholarship, and they're like, but she doesn't play field hockey. She never has. Like, well, I know, but they make quite a donation to the new science wing, or the field hockey wing. The coach said, ick's knee on the hockey hay. But this was bribery, and they, you know, she's...

Is she in jail now or is she just out? I believe she's out. Her husband may be out again now. I think they reduced the sentence, too. They threw the book at him for six months, and I think they had him sort of like a month or something. Right, because they kind of fought things. I remember Felicity Huffman really just ate crow, apologized through herself at the mercy of the

court of public opinion and the real court, which was definitely the right move. I think she was very ashamed and came out and said so, whereas Lori Loughlin's kind of like, I'm going to fight this. I was like, that's not the right move. That was a great Lori Loughlin impression, by the way. But that was a very big deal, like that kind of rocked the entertainment slash academic world for a little while. Yeah, and I think a lot of people didn't realize that Ivy Leagues have these coaches' slots where

the coach can say, let this kid in. I want him on my fencing team, best fencer I've ever seen. Right, you ought to see this guy with a foil. Right, but yeah, the idea that not only were these kids not qualified to go to an Ivy League school, but they also weren't even any good at sports. They were just using this backdoor thing that's not good at all. What about that other, the anti-Asian bias scandal? Yeah, so you talked about Harvard's acceptance rate being 3.4%.

That was for 2020. That's low even for Harvard. Yeah, that's super low. It's not necessarily Harvard's fault that their acceptance rate is so low. They usually have about the same number in each class every year and have for decades. It's just that more and more people are applying to it. Apparently, there's academic coaches that basically just help you fill out forms and tell you how to apply to different colleges.

Right. And their rise has been commensurate with the flood of applications in the Ivy Leagues. So more and more people are applying, which means the acceptance rate is getting lower and lower even though the class size has been the same. The point of that is that these classes are curated almost at Ivy Leagues. And if you just went on academics, just A plus 4.0, somehow their GPA was even above 4.0. Yeah, I don't know how that works. Or four period though.

I'm sorry. Yeah. You would have way more Asian children in the Ivy League schools, but you don't. Right. So this group sued Harvard and said, you have an anti-Asian bias. And Harvard was like, it's not an anti-Asian bias. We more just sculpt each class. So not only did they look at a well-rounded student with a bunch of different interests

and pursuits in community service, in addition to their grades, they tried to look at a class like that to assemble a well-rounded class. Like what does this class look like? Yeah. And for what it's worth, I think they were sued by an anti-affirmative action group. And they said they won. And then they won the appeal. Harvard did.

Yeah. And yeah, Harvard won. Then they won the appeal. And I think it's still in the courts for, I guess, another appeal. But yeah, I mean, I think it seems like they're trying to do that in the name of diversity, which is ironic because if you're a minority, if you're Asian, you're a minority. So I could see crying foul against that. But there are lots of minorities.

And I guess they're trying to create a diverse class. At least that's what they're saying. Yeah, and one of the places where diversity really needs to be boosted, though, is on socioeconomic status. Right. Apparently, there's a group called OpportunityInsights.org. And it's some ex Ivy Leaguers who got together to kind of study how Ivy Leaguers serve American society.

And they released these detailed reports every once in a while. And the most recent one says that the middle income kids are being left out, that Ivy Leagues are going for the real rags to riches success stories to boost their image. Sure. And as a result, they're also, they're leaving out some of the middle, where if you just took kids who were, who had scored at least a 1400 on the SAT as qualification and left income out of it, middle income kids would, I think the representation would go up by like 10% or something crazy like that.

Yeah. But that's not the case. You have very, very high income kids. Like for example, if you're student or if you're student with parents in the top 1% of American economic brackets, you're 77 times more likely to attend an Ivy League than a student with a parent in the lowest 20%, which is crazy because there's only 1.2 million households in the top 1%, but there's 21 million households in the bottom 20%. But those kids in the top 1% are still 77 times likelier to go to an Ivy League school.

That right there is, do you just drop the mic right there? You just, there's no argument. Like they serve the highest echelons of American society and help the next generation stay in the highest echelons of American society. If you drop this mic, you're going to injure that ear. Another stat here in 2017, more than 20% of Dartmouth students were from the top 1% of earning families and 14.4% came from the bottom 60% of families by income. And I don't have the stat, but I guarantee you that most of those fell between like the 50th

and 60th percentile. I'd be curious to see what like the bottom 10% looks like, but it's probably super, super low. So I saw another study from the opportunity insights where they were saying like, okay, the key here, what you're looking for to raise people up are the lower socioeconomic levels to the higher ones through a college education are two, there's two factors. One is access. They've got to be able to have access to that education. So how, how many lower income students is this, this university accepting?

And then mobility, which is how many go from the bottom quintile to the highest quintile? You mean in their career and life? Yeah, like say 10 years on. Yeah. Right. Or yeah, over their lifetime. What's the stat there? Well, they found that IVs are not, they're great at mobility.

Right. They can get people out of the bottom 20% and in the top 20%, no problem. But so can second tier schools. Right. And second tier schools have much greater access. It's much easier to get in. Right. And they're also a lot cheaper over the, I think Harvard's like 50 grand a year now or something

like that. Yeah. But although if you are in that bottom income bracket, you're going to be getting grants out the wazoo. Right. But it's hard to get in. Right. That access is shut down.

The mobility is pretty good, but it's also just as good as second tier. Now, if you take away that moving people from the bottom 20% to the top 20% and you look at moving people from the bottom 20% to the top 1%, then Ivy League's just below everybody else out of the water. There's a good chance that if you are from the lowest 20% of earners and do, we're talking $25,000 a year less. Right. There's 22 million households in the U.S. that make that.

If you come from that quintile and you get into an Ivy League school, there's a pretty decent chance you're going to be in the top 1% of earners 10 years after you graduate. Yeah. What is this stat doesn't make sense here at the end then? 22% of Princeton students were Pell Grant eligible, but only 1.3% of their students entered poor and became rich later in life. Yeah. Did that be right?

I don't. Yeah, I think different studies turn up different stuff. So this is just from a different study. And it also has to do with the measurement. I mean, like maybe this is over lifetime earnings or something like that. Right. Sure. Who knows?

That's just, that was startling. There is a good quote here. I think we should read that. And it's sort of on the idea that just because you got into Harvard, your problems are solved as far as your connections and socially. Right. And I think it has the reputation once you're, if you're a student there and if you are from one of those lower income families that sort of like Robbie coming from Georgia to their

law school, you're like, well, you're still not really one of us. Right. You got in and you're getting these grants. I know you're smart and everything, but you're not a blue blood like we are. And we're going to have a bunch of clubs that are expensive, have really expensive dues and secret societies, and we can still segregate within the school pretty successfully. And you're not going to have the connections we're going to have even though you went here with us.

Right. And this one student from, I think he was Haitian, said in a Washington Post article, there are constant reminders that I have to forge a place for myself within a world that has been constructed for someone else. So, you know, it's great that they are getting some of these kids in the school and trying to diversify, but that's only step one into truly integrating, you know. Yeah. It's exactly what happened at Elwoods.

Yeah. I get the reference now. You got anything else? Have you not ever seen Legally Blonde? I don't think so. It's great. All the way through. Emily has for sure.

It's a good one. And Legally Blonde too is one of the better sequels ever. Blonde Ambition? I think so. Yeah, it's a title. Yeah, she goes through the same exact thing, but this time in DC. I'm not sure how I knew that. Well, you just pull it out of thin air.

That's right. You got anything else? You got nothing else. Okay, everybody. Well, that's Ivy Leagues. And that is also the end of our 3D recording career, at least after this listener mail, because I said 3D recording career. Hope you enjoyed it.

I'm over here. Now I'm over here. Now I'm down here. You think that does anything? It probably, yeah. It just made Jerry tickle. I think you got to finish your part now. Did you already forget?

Listener mail? Yeah. No, I said that's listener mail. Oh, you did? I said that, and that means it's time for listener mail, because I said probably not. You did say that? Yeah. I miss my cue.

All right, well, here. I'll do it again. You ready? Yeah. We should leave this part in. Okay. You don't even forget already. Well, then I guess I did.

Well, since Chuck said I guess I did, that means it's time for listener mail. Hey, great setup. I'm going to call this feminism from Emily in Chicago. Hey, guys, in the ARA episode, you mentioned doing at least a short stuff on Betty for Dan. I for one think it's a great idea, because she's done a lot of important work. It doesn't really get talked about, but I wanted to bring you guys, bring up to you guys, if you decide to pursue an episode on her, you should know that she led a movement that was exclusive to white middle-class heterosexual women.

The 60s and 70s was a time period that was really rich in movements for women of, for women, people of color in the LGBTQ community. Yet all these movements, namely second-way feminism in the American Indian movement, was guilty of this too. They excluded poor women, women of color, and women who identified as LGBTQ. Women in these groups were advocating for the same rights as the leaders of these movements, but oftentimes their voices were just straight up ignored. Betty for Dan was notorious for butting heads with and kicking out these types of women,

like Rita May Brown, who is a great feminist writer. This wave of feminism in the 60s and 70s was definitely important, and did deliver great strides for women, but not all women. I do want to, I don't want to rain on anyone's parade here in any shape or form, but just shed a bit of light on the many years, I'm sorry, many layers of these movements. It's important to celebrate the victories for women and minority groups during this period, but it's also important not to gloss over the many flaws that were present. You guys are great.

Your show is an absolute delight. Can't wait to listen to future episodes. Please keep up the good work. Take care of yourselves, stay safe, stay healthy. Emily from Chicago. Thanks Emily, it's a great point. Totally great point. I've learned over the years and from being a history major that

things, even the most celebrated things are rarely just perfect. Yeah, like us. Well, we may be an exception to the rule. All right, great. Well, if you want to get in touch with us like Emily from Chicago did and say, hey, I'm blank from blank, let us know. You can email to us at stuffpodcast.iheartradio.com. Stuff you should know is a production of iHeartRadio.

For more podcasts, my heart radio, visit the iHeartRadio app. Apple podcasts are wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Hey, I'm Lance Bass, host of the new iHeart podcast, Frosted Tips with Lance Bass. Do you ever think to yourself, what advice would Lance Bass and my favorite boy bands give me in this situation? If you do, you've come to the right place because I'm here to help and a different hot, sexy teen crush boy bander each week to guide you through life. Tell everybody, everybody about my new podcast and make sure to listen.

So we'll never, ever have to say bye, bye, bye. Listen to Frosted Tips with Lance Bass on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to podcasts. I'm Munga Chauticular, and it turns out astrology is way more widespread than any of us want to believe. You can find it in Major League Baseball, International Banks, K-pop groups, even the White House. But just when I thought I had a handle on this subject, something completely unbelievable happened to me and my whole view on astrology changed.

Whether you're a skeptic or a believer, give me a few minutes because I think your ideas are about to change too. Listen to Skyline Drive on the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.