Stuff You Should Know - The NAACP

Episode Date: February 4, 2021

The NAACP has long been one of the most robust and effective non-profits in the USA. And while it has faded a bit from its glory days, it still remains a vital cog in the battle for equality. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hey, I'm Lance Bass, host of the new iHeart podcast Frosted Tips with Lance Bass. Do you ever think to yourself, what advice would Lance Bass and my favorite boy bands give me in this situation? If you do, you've come to the right place because I'm here to help. And a different hot sexy teen crush boy bander each week to guide you through life. Tell everybody, yeah, everybody about my new podcast and make sure to listen so we'll never, ever have to say bye, bye, bye. Listen to Frosted Tips with Lance Bass on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to podcasts. I'm Munga Chauticular and it turns out astrology is way more widespread than any of us want to

believe. You can find in Major League Baseball, International Banks, K-pop groups, even the White House. But just when I thought I had a handle on this subject, something completely unbelievable happened to me and my whole view on astrology changed. Whether you're a skeptic or a believer, give me a few minutes because I think your ideas are about to change too. Listen to Skyline Drive on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeart Radio. Hey and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh and there's Chuck and Jerry's out there somewhere. And this is Stuff You Should Know, NAACP edition. That's right. I was thinking about this while I

was researching. Chuck, no one ever says NAACP. I've never heard anybody say it. Everyone says NAACP, which I think kind of gives the whole thing kind of like an old friend kind of feel to it. You know what I'm saying? Well, yeah. I mean, since you brought that up, there have been and people questioning the name in modern times of National Association for the Advancement of Colored People and some people have floated African Americans. So in NAAA, I guess could be a way that you would say that. But this is, I think, from 2007. So the leader of the NAACP at the time, I think there's A, there's so much in the name, so much currency at this point. That switching it is kind of tough. And also, he said, you know, we're kind of about the rights

of many kinds of people. So we don't want to just say African Americans. So there's lots of lengthy articles, but it seemed to make sense. And actually, what I've read is that the NAACP is kind of in this lengthy process of kind of reinventing itself or reestablishing itself. And it seems like one of the things that they are starting to kind of go for is especially economic equality for all people. So that really kind of jibes with, you know, this that it's almost like they grew into the name, finally, now in the 21st century, which is surprising. It's kind of neat. Yeah, should be back in the old wayback machine. It's been a little while. We got to put some air in the tires first. But yes.

Did we get in that thing at all last year? I don't think so, which is surprising, you know. We should have been getting that thing every day. I know, and we totally didn't. But okay, so here we go. We're getting in the wayback machine. All right, well, we're going to go back to let's go back to 1909. We might as well go back to when the organization was founded. And the reason why was because, well, for lots of reasons, but I think the sort of inciting incident was in August of 1908, when in Springfield, Illinois, there were two gentlemen arrested on suspicion of rape and attempted rape and murder. And the cops, they were a little afraid of what might happen. Because,

as you will see in this episode, there was a tendency for extra judicial violence, aka lynchings to happen if people got worked up. So they said, let's get these guys out of here. Let's take them to another town. The mob of people show up and realize that they have been moved and did not take kindly to that and rioted in Springfield. Yeah, so like as a result of this, this Springfield riot, there were like 2000 black residents of Springfield, Illinois, who were displaced. They just didn't have homes anymore because they've been burned to the ground. Six people were murdered. Two people were lynched. Two innocent men were lynched basically as stand-ins for the two men that they had originally

intended to lynch. Yeah, 16 people ended up losing their lives over those three days and nine black people. Seven white people, five died from conflict with the state militia that was called in, and two white people died by suicide. And for many, many years, up until I think semi recently, the seven white people that died, those deaths were attributed to being killed by black people that were there. And that is not the case. They were literally rewriting history in that case. Wow. One of the other big things about this too is, aside from the fact that it happened in, this was, you know, these happen with enough frequency like that it was a real problem. But one of the other things about these, you know, race riots or massacres of black residents,

usually that evolved out of a lynching, was that they went unpunished. Oftentimes, they were uninvestigated. There just wasn't much, if anything, done about them. So the kind of, it became clear that this was a larger issue. It was already very clear among the African American community in the United States, but it kind of caught the attention of some connected white social justice activists who were working at the time too. That's right. So in 1909, a man named W.E.B. Dubois, which is one of the great all-time names, if you've got three initials, and that's what you're going to roll with, and Dubois is a pretty killer name too, but he was a humanities professor. He was a writer. He was the first African American

to earn a doctorate degree from a university in the United States. Harvard, no less. That's right. He got together with 40 other social activists in New York, and it was, you know, it was mixed races. It was a group of black people and white people, mixed religions. There were Jewish people there. It was described as a group of black and white activists, Jews and Gentiles in the Library of Congress, and they chose February 12th to get together because that was Abraham Lincoln's birthday, and that is where they established their first charter as a group. Yeah. The first time they met, they were not considered the NAACP. It wasn't until their second meeting, the first time they called themselves the National Negro Committee,

and then in 1910, when they met again, they said, well, let's call ourselves the National Association for the Advancement of Color People, and the NAACP was officially born, although they considered the actual founding back in 1909. Like you said, yeah, it was multi-racial, multi-ethnic, and white people were involved because they were very much concerned about the quality of life and the viability of getting ahead for African Americans in the United States at the time, and for this organization to really kind of find its legs and find its footing and survive its crucial first few years, it needed very well-connected, very wealthy white supporters, and so there was an integration at the highest levels, and then eventually, within a few years,

it was kind of like, okay, it's time for us to step back. We've established this thing, and it can kind of go indefinitely from here. Yeah, so getting back to that charter, I think the words are pretty important. It said it was to promote equality of rights and eradicate caste or race prejudice among citizens of the United States, to advance the interest of colored citizens, to secure for them impartial suffrage, and to increase their opportunities for securing justice in the court's education for their children, employment according to their ability, and complete equality before the law, and I think it's pretty important because it really kind of laid the groundwork for what, I mean, you know, there

have been all sorts of activist groups over the years in the African American community, and theirs was always sort of about, let's attack this in the courts, and let's attack these systems in the courts where the cards are so stacked against us by law, and let's get some of these laws overturned. Yeah, and that's still been their strategy basically throughout. It was the strategy from the beginning, and it still is today, which is not in opposition, but it's complementary to other strategies like direct action, which is like going to a counter and sitting in and protests, a segregated lunch counter, or not giving your seat up on a bus, and, you know, during the civil rights areas, we'll see like the NAACP had an involvement

direct action, but it's always been known as like this, like just shooting for the biggest trophies of all, you know, like change, fundamental change at the national level legislatively. That's what they've always kind of been about the NAACP. Yeah, so some of these, some of the folks in the very first group, the first president, was a constitutional lawyer named Moorfield Story, a great man. There was a woman named Florence Kelly, who was also an attorney, who worked a lot in employment reform. Do you remember her from the Francis Perkins episode? She was the woman who inspired Francis Perkins? I do. She was great. Yeah, she is great. Who else?

Well, there were, you know, they needed to make some way in the press. That was sort of one of the big problems at the time is, you know, lynchings weren't being covered in the press, a lot of their rights that were being trampled on weren't covered in the mainstream press. So they had a good group of writers, essayists, journalists that would get in there and they would, you know, they would, they founded their own paper, which was huge, The Crisis, which is still around today, their magazine, but mainly just trying to get recognized in mainstream newspapers with their work. Yeah, again, some of the early supporters and people who were founding members had big time connections in the press. Like one guy, Oswald

Garrison-Villard, he was the publisher of the New York Evening Post and The Nation magazine. So he could very easily get stories about things like lynchings into his paper and his magazine, where other other places wouldn't print that kind of stuff. And then, yeah, as the subscribership of The Crisis grew, it had a bigger and bigger impact. So, yeah, kind of part and parcel it seemed like with this legislative action was generating public support through the press. It's kind of like this too prolonged approach. All right, should we take a little pause for the cause? Yeah. All right, we're gonna take a break and be right back to talk about some of their early successes right after this. Hey, I'm Lance Bass, host of the New I Hard podcast Frosted Tips

with Lance Bass. The hardest thing can be knowing who to turn to when questions arise or times get tough or you're at the end of the road. Okay, I see what you're doing. Do you ever think to yourself, what advice would Lance Bass and my favorite boy bands give me in this situation? If you do, you've come to the right place because I'm here to help. This, I promise you. Oh, god. Seriously, I swear. And you won't have to send an SOS because I'll be there for you. Oh, man. And so my husband, Michael. Um, hey, that's me. Yeah, we know that Michael and a different hot, sexy teen crush boy band are each week to guide you through life step by step. Oh, not another one. Uh-huh. Kids, relationships, life in general can get messy. You may be thinking this is the story

of my life. Just stop now. If so, tell everybody, yeah, everybody about my new podcast and make sure to listen so we'll never ever have to say bye, bye, bye. Listen to Frosted Tips with Lance Bass on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast or wherever you listen to podcasts. I'm Mangesh Articular. And to be honest, I don't believe in astrology, but from the moment I was born, it's been a part of my life in India. It's like smoking. You might not smoke, but you're going to get secondhand astrology. And lately, I've been wondering if the universe has been trying to tell me to stop running and pay attention because maybe there is magic in the stars if you're willing to look for it. So I rounded up some friends and we dove in and let

me tell you, it got weird fast. Tantric curses, major league baseball teams, canceled marriages, K-pop. But just when I thought I had to handle on this sweet and curious show about astrology, my whole world came crashing down. Situation doesn't look good. There is risk to father. And my whole view on astrology, it changed. Whether you're a skeptic or a believer, I think your ideas are going to change too. Listen to Skyline Drive and the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. So if you look at some of the early successes in the first part of the 20th century, one of the big ones you can point to is in Oklahoma in 1910, where they had a state regulation

that limited the rights of black citizens to vote. It was a grandfather clause basically where they said, you need, and I think we talked about this in the voter suppression app, but you need to be able to pass a literacy test in order to be eligible to vote unless you had a grandfather who voted in 1866. And side note, this is before black people were allowed to vote in Oklahoma. So they basically were saying, if you're illiterate and you're white, you can vote. If you're illiterate and you're black, you can't. Yeah, that Oklahoma law was particularly egregious. It was one of, I think, like seven or eight states that had a grandfather clause. But Oklahoma said not only if your grandfather could vote in 1866, if he lived in another country in 1866 and would have been

eligible to vote or could vote in that country, you, your grandfathered in. So basically, as long as you weren't black, you could, you could vote even if you were illiterate. So the NAACP filed suit against this in a very famous case called Gwynn versus the US. And Gwynn was named after Frank Gwynn, and who, along with JJ Beal, were a couple of elections officers who had, who had basically been charged with disenfranchising black voters through the grandfather clause. And the Supreme Court heard this and said, you know what, this is this NAACP group. I've not heard of them before, but they present a pretty good case. So we're going to go ahead and overturn this grandfather clause. And, you know, this was 1915. The NAACP had only met for the very first

time six years before. And all of a sudden, they're overturning race-based discrimination laws about voting at the Supreme Court. And that definitely caught the attention of people in the civil rights community, for sure. Yeah, that's why I mean, it's when you look back through history, this, the state's rights argument that we still hear today is such a tricky thing because, you know, states should be allowed to do a lot of things as they see fit, but you can't, you can't disenfranchise voters, willfully disenfranchise voters. And that's when the federal government comes in and people start crying foul that they want to be able to run their elections their way, which means we don't want black people to vote. And you just can't do

that. You know, I've been thinking about this recently since we did our Klan episode, because I noticed that every time the Klan went away, it was after the federal government intervened because the states wouldn't, right? And something I came up with, like, just a good rule of thumb or good litmus test is, does this law discriminate against anybody's right? Anybody, it doesn't matter what group it is, forget the group, take the group out of it. Is it a discriminatory law? And I cannot think of a single instance where a discriminatory law would be beneficial for the greater good of, of the country or for the health of the, of democracy. I just, I can't think of one. Unless you're, you're discriminating, discriminating against somebody's right to discriminate against

somebody. Maybe that would be the case, but that seemed to be a pretty good rule of thumb to me that I just came up with. Does the law discriminate? Yes. Well, then it's probably a pretty bad law. Hey, Josh, 2020-22. 2022? Yeah, that's about how far into the future I should try my hand at it. And what is that? What year is that? I don't know, but we're all just basically wisps of ones and zeros, I think by then. Another big thing that kind of happened early on, it was, we talked about Birth of a Nation in our episode on the Klan. And they, the NAACP got together and said, let's boycott this terrible movie. And the boycott didn't do a lot in terms

of shutting anything down in terms of Birth of a Nation, but it did draw them some, finally, some mainstream publicity and got them written up in newspapers at least. Right. So, I mean, they had some early successes and especially with overturning the grandfather clause. But I don't know if it was after this or around this time, they really kind of redoubled their efforts back onto the original intention, which was to do something about lynching, to get an anti-lynching law, national federal law passed in the United States. And what's crazy is that that still hasn't happened. And that is recently as June of 2020, we, we failed to do it yet again, which is just nuts to me. But the NAACP was really trying to

get this, to get legislation passed. You know, even back then, it just made sense. Now, today, it's just shameful that we don't have something. But the thing that kind of redoubled or refocused the NAACP's efforts on anti-lynching legislation was the lynching of a teenager named Jesse Washington in Waco, Texas in 1916. And even as far as lynchings go, this was particularly gruesome. Yeah. I mean, not only was the act gruesome, which was he was tortured, hanged, set on fire, and beaten, but it was in front of, oh, estimates range from eight to 17,000 people, like basically the size of a small, you know, hockey arena, medium, medium-sized hockey arena. You're like, I'm not going above medium.

Well, I'm trying to think these days, how much does like your average NBA hockey arena hold? Is it more like 20,000? I'm such a terrible judge of anything like that. So let's just say a medium-sized hockey arena. I think that got it across. And the only reason I'm saying that is because if you go to a pro sports game or a big concert, try to imagine that many people gathered together to watch a man, a human being be burned and hanged in front of your face. And I try to put myself in the, not in the mindset, but out of all those people, like how many of those 15,000 people were 100% fully charged, do this, do this,

and how many, as it happened, were like, my God, what has happened to us as human beings and Americans? Like, were there any people there that regretted what was going on? I'm sure some, and if they didn't regret it during, I'm sure some regretted it afterward. But I think one of the things that made Jesse Washington's lynching so disturbing to the rest of the nation was that it was reported that there was a carnival-like atmosphere where people were enjoying themselves and enjoying their time gathered together with all the other residents of Waco in lynching this teenager. And the NAACP sent an investigator there to basically document the whole thing.

And she came back with this report that became something called the Horror of Waco, or the Waco Horror, and the NAACP said, we're going to get this out there. We're going to tell the world about this, and they definitely did, and it had a really big impact. You know what it reminds me of is the only thing I can compare it to these days is when a high-profile death row inmate is executed and outside the prison, they have those parties and stuff. I don't want to wade into the capital punishment debate here, but there's something about that bloodlust that just feels really gross to me. And that's my official statement. Let me talk about somebody's life. Any time vengeance is driving things, it's usually

time to take a pause and reflect on what you're doing. I've got all the rules and thumbs coming out today. Josh, 2020-22. Yeah. So yeah, they put out these pictures, like you said. We're covered in mainstream newspapers, and I think it shocked the country. Obviously not enough, but it was a big wake-up call, I think, to a lot of people, what happened in Waco, and the NAACP was able to really pivot on this and bring up something like the dire bill, which I think was the first piece of anti-lynching legislation sponsored by Leonidas, another great name, Leonidas Dyer, a Republican congressman from Missouri. That died in the Senate. I think

it passed the House in 22, and then died in a Senate after a filibuster from the Southern Democrats. Yes, the Dixiecrats. And that was just the first of many, many attempts. Yeah, apparently, by the middle of the century, there were 200 anti-lynching bills that were introduced and died in Congress, just by the mid-century. And like I was saying, as recently as June of 2020, there was an anti-lynching law that passed the Senate unanimously, 100 to 0. And then it went over to the House, where it passed 415, 410 to 4. Then the only thing the House did was change the name to the Emmett Till anti-lynching law, which means then it had to go back to the Senate to be passed again, because that one change had been made, the name had been changed.

And when it got back to the Senate, Rand Paul from Kentucky said, I don't feel good about this, even though he was part of the unanimous Senate that had passed it unanimously just before, and no other change was made except for the name. And that really ticked a lot of people off. But still, to this day, that law was blocked, and the United States still does not have a law that makes lynching a federal crime. Yeah. So if you want to, I mean, this was really big news. So I'm sure a lot of people know about this. But if you're curious about Rand Paul's defense was, he said, quote, this bill would cheapen the meaning of lynching by defining it so broadly as to include a minor bruise or abrasion. Our national history of racial terrorism demands

much more seriousness than that. So what he was contending was he wants the language changed, because in the language now it says the standard in federal hate crimes is serious, or I'm sorry, is bodily injury. And I think he wants it changed to serious bodily injury. In other words, if someone gets punched in the face, it would be called and considered a lynching in the way it's written now. And he said there should be substantial risk of death and extreme physical pain in order to qualify as lynching. Otherwise, he said it disrespects what real lynchings were. So take that for what it is. For what it's worth, the Senate formally apologized in 2005 for failing to outlaw lynching. So they apologize in 2005, and still it hasn't

been put forward on the books. Yeah. So like we said, the NAACP for decades and decades leading up to the civil rights era was very much focused on preventing lynching, on getting lynching outlawed, and bringing attention to the huge massive issue of lynching in the United States. They had a flag that they would unfurl outside of their headquarters in New York whenever a lynching was reported. And it just said a man was lynched yesterday, which I read it. Yeah, I read it. And I was like, wow, that must have been something that I saw a picture of it. And it's one of those ones where a picture is worth a thousand words. Like when you see it, it really drives home what they were doing and really kind of makes you really like the NAACP.

Like, yeah, go get them. Let's get lynching outlawed. Yeah. I mean, you talked about the numbers over that time period. The 4,000 plus comes out to more than one lynching a week in the United States over that period that was verified, known, and reported. So clearly, probably more than that. So yeah, this is happening literally on a weekly basis in the United States. Someone is going out on their own vigilante style and hanging, not always hanging a black man, sometimes worse. Yes. I mean, there were sometimes they would just burn the whole black section of town down. Like in 1917, St. East St. Louis saw a race massacre, just like there had been in Springfield, not too long before. So like, yeah, it wasn't just lynching. It was just mob violence and enforcement

of segregation. I think the thing that set off the St. Louis riot was a black family moved into a white neighborhood. If I'm not mistaken, that was the instance that set it off. So, yeah, it was a, yeah, that was a real problem. Racial violence was an even bigger problem than it is today back before the Civil Rights Era. Right. So during the Civil Rights Area, obviously, the NAACP is going to be very active. Saw some really great successes there, sort of leading the way, lobbying in the Capitol, trying just scores and scores of cases in the courts, helping people register to vote, taking part in Mississippi's Freedom Summer in 1964. If you don't know, if you know the name Rosa Parks and know what she did,

you may not know that she was the Montgomery NAACP secretary. So she actually worked for the organization. Yeah, I don't remember. Did we do a whole episode on Rosa Parks and the bus boycott, or was it part of another episode we did? I can't remember. All of our videos and everything is just a big stew in my head at this point. Well, we did the one on the Freedom Schools for sure. And I don't remember what we did, but we talked a lot about Rosa Parks, and I don't know if it was her own episode or not. If not, she deserves her own episode. But yeah, she was a secretary for the NAACP in Birmingham, or Montgomery, I'm sorry. And if you start to look at some of the big events of the Civil Rights Era, you start to realize that, oh, wait a minute, that was an

NAACP field officer, or those people were members of the local NAACP branch. There were a lot of legal strategies and cases that were launched by the NAACP that appeared to just be direct action, like Rosa Parks had had enough and wasn't going to get up that day, that when you peel back the layer a little bit, this is part of a larger strategy of trying to force lawsuits in court cases so that they can go all the way up to the Supreme Court. And sometimes they were very, very effective. Yeah. I mean, notably in the mid-1950s, they set their sights on the school system and separate but equal. They wanted to take that down. And Brown v. Board of Education, one of the landmark cases in the history of this country, Thurgood Marshall and NAACP

lawyer, who was actually later on in the late 60s became the first black Supreme Court justice, he argued that segregation in public schools is, I mean, it is flat out very clearly unconstitutional. And this is one of those times where every justice on the court agreed and said, yeah, that is not constitutional in any way. Right. So I think they said that we need to desegregate with all haste. I can't remember the exact wording, but it was vague enough that it was like... I think it was lickety-split. Yeah. They're like, what exactly constitutes lickety-split? Like, sure, it's faster than a turtle's crawl, but is it as fast as a hare running? And the Supreme Court went, uh-huh. But there was a huge backlash to that. It wasn't just like,

especially the Southern states were like, all right, we had a pretty good run at a segregated school system. It's run its course and now it's time to desegregate. That's not at all how it went. At the very least, local municipalities and even states tried to come up with new laws that provided loopholes to segregation. Some states said, well, fine, maybe we'll just abolish public schools altogether. And then we don't have to follow this federal law any longer. There was physical violence. There was just a tremendous amount of pushback to the idea of desegregating schools. And the whole thing like really kind of found its fruition at Central High School in Little Rock, Arkansas, which was, I don't know if it was the first high school to be desegregated,

or if it was just the one that was the most nuts, or the first one that was the most nuts. But the governor of Arkansas said, not on my watch, and he called out something like 10,000 National Guard troops to be there on the first day of school, I think, September 4th, 1957, to block the entry of the kids who are known as the Little Rock Nine, nine African American high school students whose bravery is just breathtaking when you stop and think about it, who were trying to go into this newly desegregated high school to go to class. And they were blocked for something like, I think, 20 days before they could finally make their way in. Yeah, this was after the Little Rock School Board unanimously voted to integrate their schools.

They were going to start with high school that year, and then follow the following year with junior high and elementary school. And like you said, those nine and not only brave kids, but you know, families of those kids, because they all had to endure what was coming, obviously. They tried. And it got, this is the part that's really confusing, because Governor Phalbus went to Newport, Rhode Island to meet with President Eisenhower about this. It's described as a brief meeting, and Eisenhower supposedly thought that Phalbus had agreed to enroll these students and said that, you know, to go ahead and keep those troops there to keep everything safe. And I don't know if that was a genuine misunderstanding. I read lots of accounts of

this, and it seems to have been a misunderstanding. He got back to Little Rock, though, and there was a court order on September 20th from a federal judge that said, you got to get those troops out of there and let these kids go to school. And they slipped them in, literally slipped them in the side door, and a full scale riot erupted. And he, you know, he allowed this violence to happen, couldn't stop it. And they called up for federal help at that time. And that's when Eisenhower had to step in and issue executive order 10730, which called it the 101st Airborne. The white troops of the 101st Airborne, they withdrew the black troops. And they didn't stay there all year, but there were army units there for the remainder of the

academic year. Yeah. And one of the Little Rock Nine was a senior, and he graduated, became one of the first African-American students to graduate from public high school in the U.S., or from an integrated high school. I think four of the nine, four of the eight who didn't graduate, were willing to go back the next year. The others were like, forget that, man. This is crazy. We literally need the army to enforce it. Yeah. I mean, one girl was pushed down the stairs. One girl had acid thrown on her face. They were berated and harangued on a daily basis, not just by like students, but by parents and stuff. It was just, one of the ugliest chapters of American history was desegregation of schools and desegregation in general, but schools in particular, because

we're talking about kids here. You know what I'm saying? Kids who are being subjected to that is bad enough for adults too, but for, you know, even teenagers on down. It's just disgusting. Should we take another break? Yes. All right. We are going to take a break, and we're going to come back in, uh, wrap it up with the post civil rights area years and where we stand today with the NAACP right after this. Hey, I'm Lance Bass, host of the new iHeart podcast, Frosted Tips with Lance Bass. The hardest thing can be knowing who to turn to when questions arise or times get tough, or you're at the end of the road. Ah, okay. I see what you're doing. Do you ever think to yourself, what advice would Lance Bass and my favorite boy bands give me in this situation? If you do,

you've come to the right place because I'm here to help. This, I promise you. Oh God. Seriously, I swear. And you won't have to send an SOS because I'll be there for you. Oh man. And so my husband, Michael, um, hey, that's me. Yep. We know that Michael and a different hot, sexy teen crush boy band are each week to guide you through life step by step. Oh, not another one. Kids, relationships, life in general can get messy. You may be thinking this is the story of my life. Just stop now. If so, tell everybody, everybody about my new podcast and make sure to listen. So we'll never, ever have to say bye, bye, bye. Listen to Frosted Tips with Lance Bass on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to podcasts. I'm Mangesh Atikular and to

be honest, I don't believe in astrology. But from the moment I was born, it's been a part of my life. In India, it's like smoking. You might not smoke, but you're going to get second hand astrology. And lately, I've been wondering if the universe has been trying to tell me to stop running and pay attention because maybe there is magic in the stars, if you're willing to look for it. So I rounded up some friends and we dove in and let me tell you, it got weird fast. Tantric curses, Major League Baseball teams, canceled marriages, K-pop. But just when I thought I had to handle on this sweet and curious show about astrology, my whole world came crashing down. Situation doesn't look good. There is risk to father. And my whole view on astrology,

it changed. Whether you're a skeptic or a believer, I think your ideas are going to change too. Listen to Skyline Drive and the iHeart radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts. So Chuck, the NAACP definitely had a huge hand along with a bunch of other groups, including the Southern Christian Leadership Conference and the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee, just a lot of different groups, to help get some massive legislation passed. And remember we said from the outset, the NAACP had always been focused on social justice and change and improvement in the lives of African Americans through legislation, through basically federal government intervention saying, okay, everybody's equal now and we're

going to enforce that. And they did it. They got it passed with the Civil Rights Act, the Voting Rights Act, the Fair Housing Act, the sweeping reforms that were passed in the 60s. They basically achieved their goal. And what's ironic is from almost that point forward, they were like, okay, well, how do we proceed from here? And there's been a lot of opportunity for people to take potshots at the NAACP and question the relevancy in the post-Civil Rights Era, which I think when you really kind of dig into it is generally unfair, but in some cases it's been warranted too. And you can make a case that the NAACP is still to this day trying to figure out their bearings again in a post-Civil Rights Era.

Yeah, this kind of started in the 70s when there was a bit of an ideological shift in protest and how that looks. And instead of in the courtroom, we did a great episode on the Black Power, or no, we did a Black Panther, but it was part of the Black Power movement. And that was a little more in fashion at the time, a little more in-your-face kind of activism. The NAACP, I think, was sort of looked at a little bit as like, that's your grandfather's organization. I got that impression too. Yeah, and we want to get up in your face and really make some news and make some change that way. I think revenue stayed pretty high in the mid-70s until they started getting hit with a lot of

lawsuits. They were always in court defending things as well as trying to get legislation passed and prosecuting things. But that left them on the verge of bankruptcy at one point. There were a couple of high-profile presidents that were fired. There were allegations of financial mismanagement. They had to lay off a lot of its workforce in 2007. And so it's just, it's been a little bit tougher row to hoe since the Civil Rights Era. In 2004, the IRS got involved because they are a non-profit. And they said, you're supposed to be a non-partisan group here. And you're saying things, in particular, this speech in 2004, which is pretty much very anti-bush. Right. And you can't do that as a non-profit. So it's been sort of a more irregular path that

they've been on. And they've been trying to find their way, I think. Yeah, the NAACP has kind of been stuck in this between a rock and a hard place thing where they're accused on one side of being way too moderate and not really active enough. Then on the other side, they're accused of being anti-Republican. And they actually came out against that IRS threat in investigation. I think it was a two-year investigation into whether or not they should hold their 501c3 status. And they came back. They blasted back rather than just kind of taking it. They said, well, wait a minute. This is the Bush administration's IRS saying we shouldn't be talking smack about President Bush or criticizing President Bush. That seems fairly politically motivated. And the IRS ended

up dropping that investigation. And they kept their 501c3 status. So good for them on that tip. But one of the other big problems I read, you kind of said like there was this, especially during the Black Power Movement in the 70s, they were criticized as not being in your face enough of being just too bureaucratic and slow moving. The same exact accusations are being leveled against them still today, very much in the face of the Black Lives Matter movement. And one of the big problems that the NAACP has is it's a really centralized organization. There's like, I think, 2,200 branches across the United States. There's a lot of different branches to keep up with. There's a 64-member board. It's amazing that they get anything done,

but that huge, that large board has a lot of control over the individual branches. Like, apparently, if you're a branch, if you want to go out and join like a march, you know, against the death of George Floyd or against police brutality or something like that, you want to get into the streets. You have to get permission from the NAACP board first. And that board is aging as well. And there's a lot of criticism about it being slow moving, about it being out of touch, and about it being way too bloated of bureaucracy to have a big impact like it needs to have on the immediate lives of Black people and people of color in general today. So there's a huge transition that the NAACP is undergoing right now. And I don't know that they

have found their way, but they seem to be rather aware that they do need to find their way again because it's an organization that depends largely on membership dues. And if people think you're irrelevant or don't even realize you're still around, they're not going to join and give you membership dues. And it's going to make it harder to actually get anything done. Do I need to say it? Please do. Josh Clark, streamline, get rid of that red tape. Josh Clark, 2020, 2022. Instead of like that Nixon like peace sign for victory thing, I'm going to somehow replace my fingers with all thumbs. This is going to be like rule of thumbs every which way. I love it. In 2011 NAACP really kind of formalized their march into the 21st century.

I guess about 11 years too late, not too late, but calendar wise. And they said that their focus were what they call the six game changers, which right now are economics, sustainability, education, health, public safety and criminal justice, voting rights, and political representation, and youth and young adult engagement. And they're still at it. These days you can see them protesting, litigating, lobbying. It might be over Confederate statues in public squares. It might be in the form of doing a sit in in the office of former Attorney General Jeff Sessions. It might be reaching out to Black Lives Matter and people who were part of that organization to see how they can work together. They're trying. They're doing their best. I think now it's about

a half a million members, about $29 million as an organization. And what did you say, more than 2000 branches? Yeah. Yeah, which is that's a big lumbering organization, you know? It is. One of the other problems I saw that they were running into is that, like I said, they were kind of victims of their own success. When you're agitating for legislation, when the legislation gets passed, what do you do next? And one of the things that the NAACP is credited for is paving the way for African American office holders. And I was reading something from Juan Williams, who I guess is conservative now. He defected from NPR over to Fox years and years ago. But he was saying that the irony of the election of Obama and other Black office holders is that

it makes the NAACP seem less relevant because then people say, okay, the NAACP got these guys into power and now we can rely on them to make the changes that the NAACP has been trying to make. And so it's kind of like, yeah, they've achieved the changes that they've wanted to, now they have to figure out, okay, what's left? What else needs to be focused on? And how do we change that following the course that we've plotted in the organization that we've structured for ourselves? So these are going to be really interesting to see what the NAACP does over the next like 10 or 20 years. I think the Six Game Changers is a pretty good foundation. I agree. So hazzah to the NAACP. We're glad that we live in a world that they're around,

although we're sad that we live in a world where they're needed. You know? Wow, boy. Do I need to say it? I just grew an extra thumb. Okay. Well, since Chuck just laughed like that, I think everybody's time for Listener Mail. This is from a six-year-old. And if you want to get on Listener Mail, just be six. That's my advice. Yeah. Hi, Josh and Chuck. My name is Christopher. I'm six years old and from Toronto, Ontario, Canada. My mommy introduced me to your show recently because I'm very interested in learning about everything and I love your podcast. Cool. This kid is like basically my daughter's age, by the way, who could not care less about what I do. Well, that's actually not

true, but she certainly doesn't listen. Okay. I had a movie question on The Carlyaday. She said, is that Josh? No, she didn't. That's awesome. I can't remember who I was interviewing with. Did she say that every time? No. She wanted to fit with you. Was it Mark Ruffalo? Because people say I sound like Mark Ruffalo. No, but he tweeted about us once, didn't he? Trail of Tears? No, Navajo Code Talkers. Okay. I need to get him on the show. Yeah, you do. Thank you. I really like the episode on origami. It's one of my favorites. I also really like the one on Monopoly and also the one about peanut butter. I think the more I listen,

the more favorites I'll have. Have you done an episode on Harry Potter? If you haven't, maybe you should. I'm reading through the books now with my mommy. It's adorable. I'm hoping that you might read my letter on listener mail and I'll get to hear it. If you do, can you tell me which episode? But if not, that's okay. I just want to let you know that I think you guys are really interesting and smart. Love, love. Christopher McElteran. And then get this. My mom had to type this for me, but I told her what to write. Very nice. Dictated by Christopher. That's pretty great. Thanks a lot, Christopher. We appreciate you. We have not done a Harry Potter episode, but maybe we will someday. And if we do, it will be because you asked for it. How about that?

Great. And Chuck, we just got to introduce a six-year-old to the history of the NAACP. I love it. Yeah. So if you want to be like Christopher and get in touch with us and tell us that you're six, you better be six if you say that. You can hit us up via email at stuffpodcasts at iHeartRadio.com. Stuff you should know is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app. Apple podcasts are wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Hey, I'm Lance Bass, host of the new iHeart podcast, Frosted Tips with Lance Bass. Do you ever think to yourself, what advice would Lance Bass and my favorite boy bands give me in this situation? If you do, you've come to the right place because I'm here to help and a different

hot sexy teen crush boy bander each week to guide you through life. Tell everybody, yeah, everybody about my new podcast and make sure to listen so we'll never, ever have to say bye, bye, bye. Listen to Frosted Tips with Lance Bass on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to podcasts. I'm Munga Chauticular and it turns out astrology is way more widespread than any of us want to believe. You can find it in Major League Baseball, International Banks, K-pop groups, even the White House. But just when I thought I had a handle on this subject, something completely unbelievable happened to me and my whole view on astrology changed. Whether you're a skeptic or a believer, give me a few minutes because I think your ideas

are about to change too. Listen to Skyline Drive on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.